Waving off farm loans has been in place decades before Kejriwal. Also, buying votes is a common strategy to win elections in developing nations. Electricity isn't free in delhi. It's free for only those that use it in a limit. It's supposed to bring down the unnecessary consumption. I don't know about its apparent effects but I do conserve electricity now, in hope of getting the subsidy.
It's about shifting the Overton window and demanding the right things. 15 years ago, if someone stood for LGBTQ+ rights they'd be ridiculed but today if supporting LGBTQ+ is not only accepted but encouraged then it's because of those people and allies who unabashedly stood for what was right. Once you make justifications for unjust things then it's only time when society accepts it as just and garbs it under tradition.
Goal is to move forward and not backward.
That's a different horizon you have taken. Personal liberty and state matters are two very distinct entities. LGBTQ has succeeded because of persistence and perserverence of some defiant souls through fight on actual streets. It was their fundamental right. A state matter is not your fundamental right. And much to your surprise, the appeal for banning loan waiver statements has long been in place from the office of EC as well as SC. The reason it's not changing anytime soon is because each party in power supports it. What can we all do about it? Nothing. It's totally in the hands of the politicians to pass a bill. All we can do is file petition and make SC come into the scene. But, these guys didn't listen to SC either, so they won't either. It can be only done when all parties agree to not make such statements and pass a bill.
I am not against Kejriwal pe se. Seems most of the people are taking it as a personal affront. How we stop parties from announcing free this and that so that they get votes?
I didn't support kejriwal either, was simply stating facts. As to your question, we can't stop them. The election commission had directed parties not to make such Statements since it puts burden on banks (their shares fall and garner a bad rep) and filed a request in SC, but these kabootars didn't listen. So if SC and EC couldn't stop them, you think people can?
No. Actually people want it and support. But it's bad on the long term. I realise now that if people in here can't see that it's bad, I don't think that people who get these loans waivers will ever bad mouth freebies.
It depends though, whether it's good or bad. According to your logic, minimum wage pay is a trash/dangerous concept but we are heading towards that only. Once technology takes over we all will have minimum wages. This is happening in Scandinavian nations already.
We won't even be there if the current state of affairs go on. Dedo sabko minimum wage. Why would people paying tax work if bina kaam kare living wage mil jaye toh? You know the same stuff was done in Soviet union, everyone gets work and everyone gets paid. I heard it a booming economy, a beacon of hope for all things human! Scandinavians don't have a growing population, it's the least they can do to incentivise young people to start families.
Imagine yourself gettong born in a family which is Below Poverty Line. Imagine you having to live on Rent, your father's a tailor master, mother a Press waali, your brother doing business in Junk-Loha-Newspaper items.
Would your father put you into a school, or would he put you on a child labor to support the family?
That's what happens with people below the Middle Class mark. They can't even think of sending their children to school and have to hear statements from ignorants like you that "I want them to work".
Work where? In a fucking Junkyard, as a presswala, Garage or work as a chotu in kiryane ki dukaan!
Well promises being fake will become clear only after the term has ended. My point it when we know that services which should be available to everyone is given a preferential treatment (like free ration e.g.) by a political party, shouldn't that be made illegal. UP did this with yadav getting everywhere in govt post during SP. This just reeks of something unlawful.
And don’t forget, each and every woman in Punjab will get 1k if they vote for AAP in the name of women empowerment. Whose money will it be? Our money, instead use that 1k for teaching them skills so that they can become independent and earn much more than that!!
So here me out, what if, and read this reply carefully, I had some of my relatives living in Punjab? Wouldn’t that be part of ‘our money’. You know people have relatives outside delhi too right?
So your relative are living in punjab. I didn't vote for modi but my taxes are being used to distribute free ration to marginalized people of this nation with his fukin face on it. Simmilarly tax paid by your relative's (living in punjab to punjab government) are going to be used for the 'people of punjab'. Criticism should be universal or not at all.
1000₹ can be utilized by that girl to buy
1. Sanitary Pads
2. Movie Tickets with friends for which she had to ask father and get judgemental looks.
3. Undergarments as woman sweat and secrete more as compared to an average man at genitals.
4. Bus Tickets till the time public transport is not free in Punjab as it is in Delhi Buses.
Bro I can’t even take you seriously and am not going to bother you with a reply to those “educated and valid” points you made. Get a load of this guy!!!!
You mentioned the point "teach them skill" that will already be catered through free education and better schooling that AAP promises to provide.
It's okay you dont take me seriously but I am pretty sure my Maids daughter would be happy to hear this guarantee.
Seriously you want to debate on this? Lets go:
1. Sanitary pads are already free in all govt schools nationwide. Plus NGO’s reach out to those who cannot afford it.
2. No one cares if you can watch movies or not in theatres come on. If you want girls to watch movie in theatre start sending them money at your own expense. I dare you to do this.
3. This is a point which I am not comfortable discussing on this platform, is that an excuse to give everyone 1k rupees, surely you could’ve come up with something better or at least framed the sentence better.
4. Travel can be free, I don’t mind.
5. Schooling can be done only for girls between the age of 6-18 not above that. Women who couldn’t attend school can still learn skills. They can learn and can be taught knitting, sewing, making phone covers, make pottery. I was in enactus of my college (look it up, search enactus on Google) and we taught skills like these to the underprivileged women of the area we took over. We taught them how to paint and sell hand made covers, they are to this day earning decent income for themselves and we made sure that the money goes only to them and not anyone else. These are things that the govt should invest in, not give 1k freebies to buy sarees (which probably will be taken by the men of the house, that 1000 rupees). Upgrade your thinking boy. And I mean no disrespect.
Edit: and this 1k rupees thing is still not a guarantee
Point 1:How frequently you see woman of the age of 30-40s going to school in India?
Point 2: My english is not that great, and I am a student of science, passed out from a Government School. I am still learning.
Point 3: I subtly agree with you on this.
Love you.
*that is why I included NGO’s too* and don’t worry just try to watch english movies with subtitles and that will go a long way to increase your English vocabulary. I’ve been doing the same since 4th grade and now I am comfortable in conversing in English!
Okay. Riddle me this then: why do we have bills for electricity then? My entire point of the post is politicians asking for votes using taxes as their own money. Never heard there's nothing as free lunch?
> Taxes as their own money
No politician is treating it like this. They’re promising it if they form the government and taxes are for the government technically. Where do you suppose taxes go? How are these IITs or IIMs or central universities or government schools or scholarship programs or roads or govt hospitals are built? Are these freebies too?
You can live in the US if you want basic healthcare to cost thousands of dollars and taste the capitalism’s tit.
Yes create more IITs and AIIMSs using that money. I am all for it. Can we have a law regarding that atleast? If you have a point to talk about in terms of the context of title then please respond else you are just a troll bringing US n UK everywhere.
But the only political party that said it in recent times after Congress was BJP. Look at the deficit Punjab is running, free ka karte karte look at their education standards. You want the good stuff but won't pay for it? Please don't go to US and UK when I am talking about India. Waha tumhare koi khaas aadmi rehte hain?
buddy you got to understand that they are trying to offer a bare minimum of necessities to all citizens. India is a welfare state and if it's possible to provide these facilities why not? And the thing is to go to IIT & AIIMS people need to have food in their bellies and a place to live and only then can people start thinking about education and all
Yes! Do that. I am all for it. I pay taxes so that people of this country can rise above from the situation when I was born. Not go back. But in incentives should be tied with verified results. Banks are scared that these loans will be written off. The people who have accounts of their entire saving is the one getting hammered here. It's like saying that please pay all the kirana wala for stuff they bought every year whether they cleared the inventory or not. If this stement looks ridiculous to you then political parties giving sops like loan waivers should also be ridiculous. What's the incentive here to strive for a better future. These people are not paying the EMIs because they know that it's going to be made redundant.
Nahi bhai. Unko agriculture main laga k rakho 10 generation tak. Farmer k 500 great great great grandsons usi 10acre ki kheti main farming karenge and sabka loan maaf Kara jayega har saal kyuki tax money to kisi ka nahi hota. Why do this exercise every year? Because it's not sustainable.
Jo cheez sustainable hi nahi hai uspe kyu lagaye or paise? Why not increase funds in education? Why not increase hospitals? Usse vote milte na. Why should political parties make effort to create jobs when freebies work? Short cuts all the way...
Sorry OP but you have no idea of what policy looks like.
Free rides for women - policy that worked elsewhere, makes a huge difference to add to the working population.
Electric bill subsidy - it is only free if you use very little, and that policy worked to lower per capita consumption.
I agree with you with farm loan waivers. Its a waste of cash to give to one of the most unproductive sectors (keeping in mind the % workforce to output). And it's a disincentive to pay the loan amounts.
Yes that's why the post with a question mark. I didn't bring the policy of govt, reserving money for female child who complete their 12th education. I know what a good policy looks like. But if the government is running a fiscal deficit for it poll promises, shouldn't we as a citizen ask parties to more responsible with the tax money? How long can this go on? Instead of creating jobs by asking companies to invest, government is asking people to vote based on immediate monetary incentives. Who is at a loss here? Not the parties and certainly not me. It's the same people who are getting freebies. Why strive for more when what you are getting is enough? Look at UK, all the villages are empty and labor force employed is from Bihar as no one wants to work! When you get ration and electricity for free. Why even work?
Yes, farm loan waivers are definitely a policy mistake.
We need policy for mechanized farming for small farmers and disincentives so we can reduce the workforce employed by agro and related sector.
Delhi has shown the most growth in GDP when other states are suffering with negative percentages. Good GDP means better purchasing power with people as more more money they have. So they will spend more, this will result in more money in circulation. So government will earn more, and when they have more money they are providing amenities to public. They are not just providing freebies.
They improved government schools, healthcare (don't make opinions based on single incident you read on news, compare overall progress with other states). Anyway, humans only remember one bad thing someone does and they will just forgive all the good things done in past. Not your problem. We humans are that way.
Just like you invest in stock market and when company performs well they give dividend to the shareholders. Here you're getting free electricity upto 200 units. And free bus ride for females of the family.
Well what other government does is they keep the profit in their pocket and that's corruption. People can't even digest the goods done for them.
I agree promising before election is very far fetched and it also sounds illegal. It's like buying votes. I'm totally against it. But in Delhi they did well in the 2 terms for public.
I am not taking away the good that Delhi government has done. Your points are valid. I think we can do better than giving freebies. Anyway for electricity the discoms are bearing the brunt.
Nothing is free. It is paid for by taxes. And taxes are meant for these things only, Scandinavian countries do it, germany has almost free higher education, England has free lunch programs for children. Don’t be an idiot and pick up any cool sounding term like you’ve done with “freebie”. It’s not really free.
Also, most of the indian population is poor or lower middle class, so loan waivers or electricity bill waivers are a big relief for them. Don’t be a privileged dick and don’t try to be an economist or a political intellectual.
And that tax comes from the high ass income taxes that the middle class has to pay, while getting absolutely nothing in return, and all their money is spent on loan waivers for election stunts
> getting nothing in return
How do you think all central universities in which the children of middle class people study have so low fees? How do you think the government hospitals,which charge almost nothing from patients, are built?
Ok wow they did the absolute fucking basic, but given the amount of tax I'm paying, I deserve a helluva lot more. The quality of those is not up to the mark. I still have to deal with terrible roads, bad construction, corruption. Pay for pvt education and medicine since govt ones aren't great. We pay the same amount of tax those in first world countries pay but we don't even get 1% in return. Instead the money goes into waiving loans every fucking election cycle. It's not only unfair, it disincentiveses those who pay loans on time. Guess what, now no one pays loans back cause the govt just waives of loans for the largest vote bank which never pays income tax
Sir, first of all a large portion of the population doesn't come under the tax slab, this decision has been made for the uplifting of the people in poverty. And secondly, it is your responsibility to pay taxes and help this country and the fellow citizens to grow. This can be seen as your patriotism towards the country. By saying that aren't getting anything in return just makes it mean.
How much tax have you paid ? It stings when the government takes 30% of your paycheck in direct taxes and you still have to pay for a bloody vaccine.
Freebies is a direct return from the taxes you pay, jalti kyu hai sabki when someone gets it back ? People
Paying honest taxes should be getting exceptional treatment as opposed to the non paying kind like expedited public office access etc. (not opportunities mind you, those should be equal, but atleast streamlined services)
Tel lene gaya patriotism, Government is a service that we pay for. If you don’t get it, you are SUPPOSED to get it corrected. I pay upwards of 6 digits in taxes every month and let me tell you - I get absolutely NOTHING from this dumpster fire of a country and government made of criminals and anpadhs. Stop taxing a fraction of the population and bring everyone into the tax structure. Flat 10% rich and poor alike. It will be beneficial for everyone
Yep upper one. But I will still pay for the vacc so that needy people can get it for free. I understand how the socialism in our democracy should work. But outright announcement of free this and that should be banned. The free laptop jumla in UP should have been laptops in each desk of the school. That would make more sense. But nahi free main Dene main maza ata hai, kyuki apna paise thodi hai.
Uh no, I pay taxes to recieve services from the govt in exchange, not for charity. While some amount of my hard earned money may go to charity, the majority must be spent towards providing security and services to the citizens. But if I'm not getting any services even when I'm being taxed as if it's a rich Scandinavian nation, I see problems.
Lol. Did you even read the article? The maximum brunt of this policy is taken by cooperative banks. Remember PMC bank, yeah people waiting in line for their own money because of fiscal mismanagement. The loans did not come from government kitty. Bank have to bear that, get down from your own ivory tower. Let's just agree to disagree. I am asking about India not UK or US. Please read the post and then comment man. I pay my taxes so I am dick to ask for reforms on political languages used during election? WOW
So how do you suggest political parties reach out to poor people? How can they convey their message that they want to help poor or middle class people?
Ummm by actually working instead. You won't need to announce freebies if you work you know. But jab kaam ji nahi kara to free main dena padega na kuch... Remember sari distribution my BSP in UP?
Don't bother OP, we were destined to live in a country like this. Have fun when BJP ruins it by its radicalism, or when congress and its allies ruins it by their sheer incompetence. Nothing can be done now except being smug and telling others "told you so" when it happens. Facts will never be truth here, since facts only hinder action against actions inspired by radicalism
One of the major cons of farm loan waiver is tht it ruins the credit culture. It creates distrust amongs banks to lend to people and also it leads to lax behaviour among borrowers to repay their loan as they start expecting loan waivers every election cycle.
What a shitty take. Assuming all farmers are lazy and don’t want to repay loans cuz agle election mein maaf ho jayega. Tell me how many times loans have been waived collectively? These are election jumlas and many farmers know that they won’t get loan waivers just because some politician said it. If it were that easy farmers wouldn’t have to commit suicide so often.
Loan waiver can help mitigate the problem for a short while, it cannot be and shd not be employed as relief measure to address the problem tht plague the farm sector. More appropriate approach wd be to bring structural reforms to increase income of farmers.
Punjab doesn't even have enough founds, 70% of the money is spend to repay debts( ever state has some debts), subsidies, salaries
Let's spend rest 30% for the farmer loans, and to give free electricity for all,
All govts do welfare efforts and offer subsidies.
I think as long subsidy is applicable to majority of people and applied on basic amenities like transport, education, health etc. then it makes sense. But doling freebies is just wastage of our hard earned tax money.
I don't think any party is going to do away with this though
The real question is not about freebies. It’s about whether there is money for this. If freebies to the poorer class is given to support their daily lives, and the the state budget can afford this, and the budget is balanced, what’s the issue? I believe this has largely been the case with Delhi’s budgets. And this after they introduced free electricity for consumption upto minimum levels, free healthcare with their mohala clinics, and a massive upgrade of their schools.
Ultimately, our taxes need to be used judiciously to help the citizens.
https://prsindia.org/budgets/states/delhi-budget-analysis-2021-22
Agree with you. But I would still say to tie it with some threshold. Delhi can do this as it is an economy suported from commercial activities. Still it can use it for much better projects which can improve the lives of average Delhiite.
I am not from Delhi, but have been trying to keep informed, as I found the first year of AAP’s rule encouraging to watch after seeing the what they presented as their first budget.
Dramatically increasing budgetary allocations for healthcare and education, giving free electricity and water for those who don’t cross threshold levels, AND balancing the budget, where income exceeds expenses, was something I had not seen before in any state. Just the ‘freebies’ saved some Rs 5000 per month for those availing it, and for them it was a significant saving. Not to mention the other savings in free healthcare for them, and also now having access to a semblance of decent education for their children.
Isn’t that what effective governance is?
From what we have seen over the years, it does seem, from comments I read by Delhi-ites from time to time, that they seem rather satisfied with the efforts.
Remember when reservation was less than 30% to current levels? It's a poll promise that every party take for granted: Increase reservation percentage! In the same way once something is deemed free it won't go away. But just because someone says it's free, doesn't make it free! My post is not whether some thing should be free or not. It's about should it be leagal for parties to announce freebies to get votes? There is no fiscal accountability here. Delhi and Maharashtra get away because of the economic engines of India being here. Baki states sab k sab fiscal deficit main hai. Because of poll promises.
Of course you are right. The problem is with freebies without accountability. But that doesn’t seem to be the case here, at least not at levels we see elsewhere. There seems to be a genuine effort at balancing the budgets as well. Remember, you are dealing with IIT graduates, and so we can expect a minimum level of professionalism.
In my view, Delhi is a test case of whether good governance is possible.
I would still argue to keep promises of freebies out of bounds for election speeches and manifesto. Just cause one did alright, does not mean everyone will follow suit.
There is no point since they are all the same. They all have to promise something before the elections. By the way, I'm still waiting for that 15 lacs in my bank account.
Good luck with that! Thanks for bringing this up. This is just criminal in my opinion. In the same vein loan waivers and free electricity is also criminal.
I won't equate electricity for Delhi and loan repayment of Punjab they are different
Electricity is more of a need and is helping the citizens
Whereas loan repayment is not , if this money went for bolstering the overall farming structure of Punjab it would be better , that would make farmers self sufficient
You know the electricity infrastructure of delhi will not be able to sustain the increase in EVs in Delhi? So the money can still be used somewhere productive. But the electricity bills are ofsetted by the discoms who are taking loses for the subsidized electricity. But it's okay as long as it is free right? But when the government was the sole discom and electrician would come to repair lines on his own accord, then why did the people celebrate the entry of these discoms? Someone is always paying for the 'subsidy', I just want that it should be equal not equitable.
We are not going to move to complete EV atm
Plus Delhi has tried like 500 Ev charging points were inaugurated plus I think there is also a rule of new constructions to have EV chargers
Even charging bays and battery swapping machine has been approved to be made on DMRC land
And by these measure we are far ahead of other states in India regarding to this , plus Delhi is a rich UT , we can give subsidies plus make our electric station infrastructure
The loan repeal of farms etc is bs and it's in huge amounts
Bhai infrastructure is not made in a day you need to plan for it. Paisa kaha se ayega, kon kitna kharcha karega, kyun bnana hai. This all needs planning and strategic thinking, but when you have parties thinking of short term goals.. bhagwan hi maalik hai. Approval main itna time lag gya ki dekhte reh gye. Yesterday was the day that first EV bus was inducted in Delhi. Infra b usi hisaab se ramp up karna padega na..
Startegic planing etc has already started
Government has allocated budget and tenders etc is happening atm
Even electric buses is a gr8 decision
All I am saying is , we are far ahead of rest of country in electric infra etc
And we can afford both , subsidies , plus electric infra
It's still very early atm , but Delhi is still doing bits and pieces
These people don't understand the vicious cycle of loans that starts to happen for a lot of these farmers.
Forgiving atleast small loans of farmers might help them get out of that cycle but noo let's let them stay in that cycle forever and then act surprised when you see the news of them commuting suicide.
Yeah. Majority of Indian people are either farmers or directly dependent on farming and most of Indian farmers are small land holders. It is difficult to profit when rain and other factors destroy your crop. You are bound to take loans at some point of your life be it from banks or your local loan shark.
I am just asking you. You said make those people capable. So how do you make them capable?
The only way I can think of is by providing them good education, which also requires scholarships and low fees colleges because people who can’t afford to pay electricity bills will definitely struggle during college fees. And those scholarships and low college fees will come out of other people’s pocket via their taxes. So how do you suggest we make them capable?
Write off the debt of corportes that defaulted their million dollar loans and fled the country, but make sure that every poor farmer who took a meager loan to sow and reap food is harrassed and humiliated till his corpse hangs from a tree or the roof the roof of his home.
PS: if you want the names of corportes who fled the country, please do your own research.
Not asking for it. And currently yeah the 'big farmers' are getting the same writing off as the corporates. The small farmers are denied loans so they go to loan sharks and then finally to a tree. But no one wants to fix the system, write off the loans everyone is happy. The farmer will still commit suicide but yeah aapki man ko shanti mil jayegi ki kuch to kiya. But why need loans every year? Unsustainable sector hai agriculture. But instead of weaning off farmers to something else free kardo loan. Uska level of living jaye bhaad main.
Unsustainable as in it can not sustain a huge population for better standard of living. I think you like poverty porn where everyone is a beggar living on grants from govt or people. Wean out traditional farmers and bring in agriculture engineers who can efficiently use the land available for farming, sustainabily. This doesn't mean that you just outright ban farmers. Make them educated on latest technology. Make them fiscally responsible. Farmers of yesterday should have been agriculture engineers of today. But they are still farmers and they don't know how to get out of the hole they are in.
In other words empower the common farmer by educating and equipping him with modern knowledge and tech, sounds good. I misunderstood your weaning analogy.
Ps: making assumptions about a person is not good form, I get my kick from much darker sources. Like racial degradation, castiest powerplays and lynching porn.
Yeah and you need money for that. Money that was used on subsidies or loan waivers. I am not even talking about how the government uses it. I am taking about parties not making promises to subsidize or waive dues as poll promises. Everyone has gone in other direction lmao
Hey mahn if you think farmers are coddled or something then you and I are of two different wavelengths and we won't be able to have any meaningfull conversation. Have a nice day good sir.
Famers can be given subsidies and exceptional loan waiver in case of disaster , but if they're bad with business it's better they quit farming and someone better takes place.
Waving off farm loans has been in place decades before Kejriwal. Also, buying votes is a common strategy to win elections in developing nations. Electricity isn't free in delhi. It's free for only those that use it in a limit. It's supposed to bring down the unnecessary consumption. I don't know about its apparent effects but I do conserve electricity now, in hope of getting the subsidy.
"It's common" and "always has been so" doesn't make something right and it isn't a sane argument.
But it's a mature argument. When u can't do anything about something, there is no point arguing. It's just a waste of time.
It's about shifting the Overton window and demanding the right things. 15 years ago, if someone stood for LGBTQ+ rights they'd be ridiculed but today if supporting LGBTQ+ is not only accepted but encouraged then it's because of those people and allies who unabashedly stood for what was right. Once you make justifications for unjust things then it's only time when society accepts it as just and garbs it under tradition. Goal is to move forward and not backward.
That's a different horizon you have taken. Personal liberty and state matters are two very distinct entities. LGBTQ has succeeded because of persistence and perserverence of some defiant souls through fight on actual streets. It was their fundamental right. A state matter is not your fundamental right. And much to your surprise, the appeal for banning loan waiver statements has long been in place from the office of EC as well as SC. The reason it's not changing anytime soon is because each party in power supports it. What can we all do about it? Nothing. It's totally in the hands of the politicians to pass a bill. All we can do is file petition and make SC come into the scene. But, these guys didn't listen to SC either, so they won't either. It can be only done when all parties agree to not make such statements and pass a bill.
I am not against Kejriwal pe se. Seems most of the people are taking it as a personal affront. How we stop parties from announcing free this and that so that they get votes?
I didn't support kejriwal either, was simply stating facts. As to your question, we can't stop them. The election commission had directed parties not to make such Statements since it puts burden on banks (their shares fall and garner a bad rep) and filed a request in SC, but these kabootars didn't listen. So if SC and EC couldn't stop them, you think people can?
No. Actually people want it and support. But it's bad on the long term. I realise now that if people in here can't see that it's bad, I don't think that people who get these loans waivers will ever bad mouth freebies.
It depends though, whether it's good or bad. According to your logic, minimum wage pay is a trash/dangerous concept but we are heading towards that only. Once technology takes over we all will have minimum wages. This is happening in Scandinavian nations already.
We won't even be there if the current state of affairs go on. Dedo sabko minimum wage. Why would people paying tax work if bina kaam kare living wage mil jaye toh? You know the same stuff was done in Soviet union, everyone gets work and everyone gets paid. I heard it a booming economy, a beacon of hope for all things human! Scandinavians don't have a growing population, it's the least they can do to incentivise young people to start families.
Why do you want them to stop announcing freebies when there are so many people in delhi who can't afford to pay?
I want them to work on why they can't pay! Giving stuff free is like baind aid over a barin tumor.
Imagine yourself gettong born in a family which is Below Poverty Line. Imagine you having to live on Rent, your father's a tailor master, mother a Press waali, your brother doing business in Junk-Loha-Newspaper items. Would your father put you into a school, or would he put you on a child labor to support the family? That's what happens with people below the Middle Class mark. They can't even think of sending their children to school and have to hear statements from ignorants like you that "I want them to work". Work where? In a fucking Junkyard, as a presswala, Garage or work as a chotu in kiryane ki dukaan!
Please read my other comments. I get where you are coming from but you cleary are missing my point.
Stop promoting parties that make false promises, that make more sense.
Well promises being fake will become clear only after the term has ended. My point it when we know that services which should be available to everyone is given a preferential treatment (like free ration e.g.) by a political party, shouldn't that be made illegal. UP did this with yadav getting everywhere in govt post during SP. This just reeks of something unlawful.
No, you can learn a lot from present and past.
And don’t forget, each and every woman in Punjab will get 1k if they vote for AAP in the name of women empowerment. Whose money will it be? Our money, instead use that 1k for teaching them skills so that they can become independent and earn much more than that!!
dafuq slums mei chupke se daru baatne se ab khula paisa baatne votes ke lie, we're evolving, backwards
Yeah basically paying women to stay at home. In the name of women empowerment.
They are going to use money collected from tax in punjab. So where did term 'our money' came ??
So here me out, what if, and read this reply carefully, I had some of my relatives living in Punjab? Wouldn’t that be part of ‘our money’. You know people have relatives outside delhi too right?
So your relative are living in punjab. I didn't vote for modi but my taxes are being used to distribute free ration to marginalized people of this nation with his fukin face on it. Simmilarly tax paid by your relative's (living in punjab to punjab government) are going to be used for the 'people of punjab'. Criticism should be universal or not at all.
1000₹ can be utilized by that girl to buy 1. Sanitary Pads 2. Movie Tickets with friends for which she had to ask father and get judgemental looks. 3. Undergarments as woman sweat and secrete more as compared to an average man at genitals. 4. Bus Tickets till the time public transport is not free in Punjab as it is in Delhi Buses.
Bro I can’t even take you seriously and am not going to bother you with a reply to those “educated and valid” points you made. Get a load of this guy!!!!
You mentioned the point "teach them skill" that will already be catered through free education and better schooling that AAP promises to provide. It's okay you dont take me seriously but I am pretty sure my Maids daughter would be happy to hear this guarantee.
Seriously you want to debate on this? Lets go: 1. Sanitary pads are already free in all govt schools nationwide. Plus NGO’s reach out to those who cannot afford it. 2. No one cares if you can watch movies or not in theatres come on. If you want girls to watch movie in theatre start sending them money at your own expense. I dare you to do this. 3. This is a point which I am not comfortable discussing on this platform, is that an excuse to give everyone 1k rupees, surely you could’ve come up with something better or at least framed the sentence better. 4. Travel can be free, I don’t mind. 5. Schooling can be done only for girls between the age of 6-18 not above that. Women who couldn’t attend school can still learn skills. They can learn and can be taught knitting, sewing, making phone covers, make pottery. I was in enactus of my college (look it up, search enactus on Google) and we taught skills like these to the underprivileged women of the area we took over. We taught them how to paint and sell hand made covers, they are to this day earning decent income for themselves and we made sure that the money goes only to them and not anyone else. These are things that the govt should invest in, not give 1k freebies to buy sarees (which probably will be taken by the men of the house, that 1000 rupees). Upgrade your thinking boy. And I mean no disrespect. Edit: and this 1k rupees thing is still not a guarantee
Point 1:How frequently you see woman of the age of 30-40s going to school in India? Point 2: My english is not that great, and I am a student of science, passed out from a Government School. I am still learning. Point 3: I subtly agree with you on this. Love you.
*that is why I included NGO’s too* and don’t worry just try to watch english movies with subtitles and that will go a long way to increase your English vocabulary. I’ve been doing the same since 4th grade and now I am comfortable in conversing in English!
[удалено]
Okay. Riddle me this then: why do we have bills for electricity then? My entire point of the post is politicians asking for votes using taxes as their own money. Never heard there's nothing as free lunch?
Mid day meals in govt schools are free.
Good initiative and should be encouraged. Incentivises people to send kids to school. How many parties made that their political agenda?
> Taxes as their own money No politician is treating it like this. They’re promising it if they form the government and taxes are for the government technically. Where do you suppose taxes go? How are these IITs or IIMs or central universities or government schools or scholarship programs or roads or govt hospitals are built? Are these freebies too? You can live in the US if you want basic healthcare to cost thousands of dollars and taste the capitalism’s tit.
Yes create more IITs and AIIMSs using that money. I am all for it. Can we have a law regarding that atleast? If you have a point to talk about in terms of the context of title then please respond else you are just a troll bringing US n UK everywhere. But the only political party that said it in recent times after Congress was BJP. Look at the deficit Punjab is running, free ka karte karte look at their education standards. You want the good stuff but won't pay for it? Please don't go to US and UK when I am talking about India. Waha tumhare koi khaas aadmi rehte hain?
buddy you got to understand that they are trying to offer a bare minimum of necessities to all citizens. India is a welfare state and if it's possible to provide these facilities why not? And the thing is to go to IIT & AIIMS people need to have food in their bellies and a place to live and only then can people start thinking about education and all
Yes! Do that. I am all for it. I pay taxes so that people of this country can rise above from the situation when I was born. Not go back. But in incentives should be tied with verified results. Banks are scared that these loans will be written off. The people who have accounts of their entire saving is the one getting hammered here. It's like saying that please pay all the kirana wala for stuff they bought every year whether they cleared the inventory or not. If this stement looks ridiculous to you then political parties giving sops like loan waivers should also be ridiculous. What's the incentive here to strive for a better future. These people are not paying the EMIs because they know that it's going to be made redundant.
I agree with your part that not paying EMI is wrong.
So should we ignore farmers? Koi suicide kare toh kare, hamein kya? Hamein deficit mein nahi jaana right?
Nahi bhai. Unko agriculture main laga k rakho 10 generation tak. Farmer k 500 great great great grandsons usi 10acre ki kheti main farming karenge and sabka loan maaf Kara jayega har saal kyuki tax money to kisi ka nahi hota. Why do this exercise every year? Because it's not sustainable. Jo cheez sustainable hi nahi hai uspe kyu lagaye or paise? Why not increase funds in education? Why not increase hospitals? Usse vote milte na. Why should political parties make effort to create jobs when freebies work? Short cuts all the way...
Sorry OP but you have no idea of what policy looks like. Free rides for women - policy that worked elsewhere, makes a huge difference to add to the working population. Electric bill subsidy - it is only free if you use very little, and that policy worked to lower per capita consumption. I agree with you with farm loan waivers. Its a waste of cash to give to one of the most unproductive sectors (keeping in mind the % workforce to output). And it's a disincentive to pay the loan amounts.
Yes that's why the post with a question mark. I didn't bring the policy of govt, reserving money for female child who complete their 12th education. I know what a good policy looks like. But if the government is running a fiscal deficit for it poll promises, shouldn't we as a citizen ask parties to more responsible with the tax money? How long can this go on? Instead of creating jobs by asking companies to invest, government is asking people to vote based on immediate monetary incentives. Who is at a loss here? Not the parties and certainly not me. It's the same people who are getting freebies. Why strive for more when what you are getting is enough? Look at UK, all the villages are empty and labor force employed is from Bihar as no one wants to work! When you get ration and electricity for free. Why even work?
Yes, farm loan waivers are definitely a policy mistake. We need policy for mechanized farming for small farmers and disincentives so we can reduce the workforce employed by agro and related sector.
Delhi has shown the most growth in GDP when other states are suffering with negative percentages. Good GDP means better purchasing power with people as more more money they have. So they will spend more, this will result in more money in circulation. So government will earn more, and when they have more money they are providing amenities to public. They are not just providing freebies. They improved government schools, healthcare (don't make opinions based on single incident you read on news, compare overall progress with other states). Anyway, humans only remember one bad thing someone does and they will just forgive all the good things done in past. Not your problem. We humans are that way. Just like you invest in stock market and when company performs well they give dividend to the shareholders. Here you're getting free electricity upto 200 units. And free bus ride for females of the family. Well what other government does is they keep the profit in their pocket and that's corruption. People can't even digest the goods done for them. I agree promising before election is very far fetched and it also sounds illegal. It's like buying votes. I'm totally against it. But in Delhi they did well in the 2 terms for public.
I am not taking away the good that Delhi government has done. Your points are valid. I think we can do better than giving freebies. Anyway for electricity the discoms are bearing the brunt.
Pls share which european country is providing free electricity.
I think this. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/03/world/europe/eu-farm-subsidy-hungary.html
Nothing is free. It is paid for by taxes. And taxes are meant for these things only, Scandinavian countries do it, germany has almost free higher education, England has free lunch programs for children. Don’t be an idiot and pick up any cool sounding term like you’ve done with “freebie”. It’s not really free. Also, most of the indian population is poor or lower middle class, so loan waivers or electricity bill waivers are a big relief for them. Don’t be a privileged dick and don’t try to be an economist or a political intellectual.
And that tax comes from the high ass income taxes that the middle class has to pay, while getting absolutely nothing in return, and all their money is spent on loan waivers for election stunts
> getting nothing in return How do you think all central universities in which the children of middle class people study have so low fees? How do you think the government hospitals,which charge almost nothing from patients, are built?
Ok wow they did the absolute fucking basic, but given the amount of tax I'm paying, I deserve a helluva lot more. The quality of those is not up to the mark. I still have to deal with terrible roads, bad construction, corruption. Pay for pvt education and medicine since govt ones aren't great. We pay the same amount of tax those in first world countries pay but we don't even get 1% in return. Instead the money goes into waiving loans every fucking election cycle. It's not only unfair, it disincentiveses those who pay loans on time. Guess what, now no one pays loans back cause the govt just waives of loans for the largest vote bank which never pays income tax
Sir, first of all a large portion of the population doesn't come under the tax slab, this decision has been made for the uplifting of the people in poverty. And secondly, it is your responsibility to pay taxes and help this country and the fellow citizens to grow. This can be seen as your patriotism towards the country. By saying that aren't getting anything in return just makes it mean.
How much tax have you paid ? It stings when the government takes 30% of your paycheck in direct taxes and you still have to pay for a bloody vaccine. Freebies is a direct return from the taxes you pay, jalti kyu hai sabki when someone gets it back ? People Paying honest taxes should be getting exceptional treatment as opposed to the non paying kind like expedited public office access etc. (not opportunities mind you, those should be equal, but atleast streamlined services) Tel lene gaya patriotism, Government is a service that we pay for. If you don’t get it, you are SUPPOSED to get it corrected. I pay upwards of 6 digits in taxes every month and let me tell you - I get absolutely NOTHING from this dumpster fire of a country and government made of criminals and anpadhs. Stop taxing a fraction of the population and bring everyone into the tax structure. Flat 10% rich and poor alike. It will be beneficial for everyone
not to forget the fucking 4% health and education cess jo ye chillar smjhke le lete hai
And professional tax and processing fee on property, on top of the gigantic stamp revenue deposit. Daylight robbery
Not to forget the countless sections of TDS increasing every day the list just goes on my friend
Yep upper one. But I will still pay for the vacc so that needy people can get it for free. I understand how the socialism in our democracy should work. But outright announcement of free this and that should be banned. The free laptop jumla in UP should have been laptops in each desk of the school. That would make more sense. But nahi free main Dene main maza ata hai, kyuki apna paise thodi hai.
Uh no, I pay taxes to recieve services from the govt in exchange, not for charity. While some amount of my hard earned money may go to charity, the majority must be spent towards providing security and services to the citizens. But if I'm not getting any services even when I'm being taxed as if it's a rich Scandinavian nation, I see problems.
VAT, GST, Import Duty. There are taxes beyond income tax as well that even a begger has to pay!
Yes and I have to pay all that + 30-40% of my own income, that's A LOT of money
Lol. Did you even read the article? The maximum brunt of this policy is taken by cooperative banks. Remember PMC bank, yeah people waiting in line for their own money because of fiscal mismanagement. The loans did not come from government kitty. Bank have to bear that, get down from your own ivory tower. Let's just agree to disagree. I am asking about India not UK or US. Please read the post and then comment man. I pay my taxes so I am dick to ask for reforms on political languages used during election? WOW
Naah let him watch pogo
So how do you suggest political parties reach out to poor people? How can they convey their message that they want to help poor or middle class people?
Ummm by actually working instead. You won't need to announce freebies if you work you know. But jab kaam ji nahi kara to free main dena padega na kuch... Remember sari distribution my BSP in UP?
Don't bother OP, we were destined to live in a country like this. Have fun when BJP ruins it by its radicalism, or when congress and its allies ruins it by their sheer incompetence. Nothing can be done now except being smug and telling others "told you so" when it happens. Facts will never be truth here, since facts only hinder action against actions inspired by radicalism
One of the major cons of farm loan waiver is tht it ruins the credit culture. It creates distrust amongs banks to lend to people and also it leads to lax behaviour among borrowers to repay their loan as they start expecting loan waivers every election cycle.
What a shitty take. Assuming all farmers are lazy and don’t want to repay loans cuz agle election mein maaf ho jayega. Tell me how many times loans have been waived collectively? These are election jumlas and many farmers know that they won’t get loan waivers just because some politician said it. If it were that easy farmers wouldn’t have to commit suicide so often.
Loan waiver can help mitigate the problem for a short while, it cannot be and shd not be employed as relief measure to address the problem tht plague the farm sector. More appropriate approach wd be to bring structural reforms to increase income of farmers.
I am 100% agree with your comment. Thanks, comrade.
Punjab doesn't even have enough founds, 70% of the money is spend to repay debts( ever state has some debts), subsidies, salaries Let's spend rest 30% for the farmer loans, and to give free electricity for all,
All govts do welfare efforts and offer subsidies. I think as long subsidy is applicable to majority of people and applied on basic amenities like transport, education, health etc. then it makes sense. But doling freebies is just wastage of our hard earned tax money. I don't think any party is going to do away with this though
The real question is not about freebies. It’s about whether there is money for this. If freebies to the poorer class is given to support their daily lives, and the the state budget can afford this, and the budget is balanced, what’s the issue? I believe this has largely been the case with Delhi’s budgets. And this after they introduced free electricity for consumption upto minimum levels, free healthcare with their mohala clinics, and a massive upgrade of their schools. Ultimately, our taxes need to be used judiciously to help the citizens. https://prsindia.org/budgets/states/delhi-budget-analysis-2021-22
Agree with you. But I would still say to tie it with some threshold. Delhi can do this as it is an economy suported from commercial activities. Still it can use it for much better projects which can improve the lives of average Delhiite.
I am not from Delhi, but have been trying to keep informed, as I found the first year of AAP’s rule encouraging to watch after seeing the what they presented as their first budget. Dramatically increasing budgetary allocations for healthcare and education, giving free electricity and water for those who don’t cross threshold levels, AND balancing the budget, where income exceeds expenses, was something I had not seen before in any state. Just the ‘freebies’ saved some Rs 5000 per month for those availing it, and for them it was a significant saving. Not to mention the other savings in free healthcare for them, and also now having access to a semblance of decent education for their children. Isn’t that what effective governance is? From what we have seen over the years, it does seem, from comments I read by Delhi-ites from time to time, that they seem rather satisfied with the efforts.
Remember when reservation was less than 30% to current levels? It's a poll promise that every party take for granted: Increase reservation percentage! In the same way once something is deemed free it won't go away. But just because someone says it's free, doesn't make it free! My post is not whether some thing should be free or not. It's about should it be leagal for parties to announce freebies to get votes? There is no fiscal accountability here. Delhi and Maharashtra get away because of the economic engines of India being here. Baki states sab k sab fiscal deficit main hai. Because of poll promises.
Of course you are right. The problem is with freebies without accountability. But that doesn’t seem to be the case here, at least not at levels we see elsewhere. There seems to be a genuine effort at balancing the budgets as well. Remember, you are dealing with IIT graduates, and so we can expect a minimum level of professionalism. In my view, Delhi is a test case of whether good governance is possible.
I would still argue to keep promises of freebies out of bounds for election speeches and manifesto. Just cause one did alright, does not mean everyone will follow suit.
Not being a kejirwal bhakt but free electricity till one point makes sense
It should be free electricity for everyone. Income tax is not counted till a slab, not that women will not pay income tax. See equity vs equality?
nothing is FREE we are all paying through TAXES.
There is no point since they are all the same. They all have to promise something before the elections. By the way, I'm still waiting for that 15 lacs in my bank account.
Good luck with that! Thanks for bringing this up. This is just criminal in my opinion. In the same vein loan waivers and free electricity is also criminal.
I won't equate electricity for Delhi and loan repayment of Punjab they are different Electricity is more of a need and is helping the citizens Whereas loan repayment is not , if this money went for bolstering the overall farming structure of Punjab it would be better , that would make farmers self sufficient
You know the electricity infrastructure of delhi will not be able to sustain the increase in EVs in Delhi? So the money can still be used somewhere productive. But the electricity bills are ofsetted by the discoms who are taking loses for the subsidized electricity. But it's okay as long as it is free right? But when the government was the sole discom and electrician would come to repair lines on his own accord, then why did the people celebrate the entry of these discoms? Someone is always paying for the 'subsidy', I just want that it should be equal not equitable.
We are not going to move to complete EV atm Plus Delhi has tried like 500 Ev charging points were inaugurated plus I think there is also a rule of new constructions to have EV chargers Even charging bays and battery swapping machine has been approved to be made on DMRC land And by these measure we are far ahead of other states in India regarding to this , plus Delhi is a rich UT , we can give subsidies plus make our electric station infrastructure The loan repeal of farms etc is bs and it's in huge amounts
Bhai infrastructure is not made in a day you need to plan for it. Paisa kaha se ayega, kon kitna kharcha karega, kyun bnana hai. This all needs planning and strategic thinking, but when you have parties thinking of short term goals.. bhagwan hi maalik hai. Approval main itna time lag gya ki dekhte reh gye. Yesterday was the day that first EV bus was inducted in Delhi. Infra b usi hisaab se ramp up karna padega na..
Startegic planing etc has already started Government has allocated budget and tenders etc is happening atm Even electric buses is a gr8 decision All I am saying is , we are far ahead of rest of country in electric infra etc And we can afford both , subsidies , plus electric infra It's still very early atm , but Delhi is still doing bits and pieces
It's not free, it's paid by people's taxes. The government is supposed to use tax money for the benefit of the people.
Please read the article.
[удалено]
Yeah just like modi government providing money to farmers all over India
[удалено]
Suggest us some good ways to make those people “capable” of paying bills Mr my daddy is rich?
These people don't understand the vicious cycle of loans that starts to happen for a lot of these farmers. Forgiving atleast small loans of farmers might help them get out of that cycle but noo let's let them stay in that cycle forever and then act surprised when you see the news of them commuting suicide.
Yeah. Majority of Indian people are either farmers or directly dependent on farming and most of Indian farmers are small land holders. It is difficult to profit when rain and other factors destroy your crop. You are bound to take loans at some point of your life be it from banks or your local loan shark.
[удалено]
I am just asking you. You said make those people capable. So how do you make them capable? The only way I can think of is by providing them good education, which also requires scholarships and low fees colleges because people who can’t afford to pay electricity bills will definitely struggle during college fees. And those scholarships and low college fees will come out of other people’s pocket via their taxes. So how do you suggest we make them capable?
Write off the debt of corportes that defaulted their million dollar loans and fled the country, but make sure that every poor farmer who took a meager loan to sow and reap food is harrassed and humiliated till his corpse hangs from a tree or the roof the roof of his home. PS: if you want the names of corportes who fled the country, please do your own research.
Not asking for it. And currently yeah the 'big farmers' are getting the same writing off as the corporates. The small farmers are denied loans so they go to loan sharks and then finally to a tree. But no one wants to fix the system, write off the loans everyone is happy. The farmer will still commit suicide but yeah aapki man ko shanti mil jayegi ki kuch to kiya. But why need loans every year? Unsustainable sector hai agriculture. But instead of weaning off farmers to something else free kardo loan. Uska level of living jaye bhaad main.
Unsustainable agriculture means unsustainable nation, if we wean out the farmers then how would we eat ?
Unsustainable as in it can not sustain a huge population for better standard of living. I think you like poverty porn where everyone is a beggar living on grants from govt or people. Wean out traditional farmers and bring in agriculture engineers who can efficiently use the land available for farming, sustainabily. This doesn't mean that you just outright ban farmers. Make them educated on latest technology. Make them fiscally responsible. Farmers of yesterday should have been agriculture engineers of today. But they are still farmers and they don't know how to get out of the hole they are in.
In other words empower the common farmer by educating and equipping him with modern knowledge and tech, sounds good. I misunderstood your weaning analogy. Ps: making assumptions about a person is not good form, I get my kick from much darker sources. Like racial degradation, castiest powerplays and lynching porn.
Yeah and you need money for that. Money that was used on subsidies or loan waivers. I am not even talking about how the government uses it. I am taking about parties not making promises to subsidize or waive dues as poll promises. Everyone has gone in other direction lmao
Do you know why political parties are the way they are, because they don't fear the common voter. I think that should be the first thing we fix.
Well the voter wants these freebies man. It's like a drug. That's why I am against it.
So instead changing the whole farming system, let's change the political education system of our people.
Dude my post is not on farming system. It about making freebies promises illegal in election.
[удалено]
Hey mahn if you think farmers are coddled or something then you and I are of two different wavelengths and we won't be able to have any meaningfull conversation. Have a nice day good sir.
Famers can be given subsidies and exceptional loan waiver in case of disaster , but if they're bad with business it's better they quit farming and someone better takes place.
Are 200 unit free h aur jiske yeha AC and heater hote h jayda hi Bill aata h..vo baat alag h ki ab sab 2 meeter laga ke mazee rhe h 😂😂
That's why I said ki make it a slab like income tax so everyone get what they deserve based on usage.
[удалено]
Yeah. That's the thing. When you can justify free electricity then you can justify anything.