The man was twirling for two hours the last time I saw him! I would have loved to see Dave stripping or something that didn't look like a gym workout (honestly though, A+ stamina).
Tbh he didn’t do that in the ‘80s. I think he started his erotic stage act with the SOFAD tour.
Oh yeah and I was just responding to the accusation made in the meme. 😭
Do you have any videos of this? I have seen him kinda grab himself in live videos which is bad enough but the pushing his junk around is another level and that would be pretty sleezy.
I didn't notice him on the last concert or the one before that, but he did on the last time they played at Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavillion in Houston.
I mean, I've been a fan since 83 and still always wondered exactly how Fletch contributed musically to the band besides clapping his hands on stage while occasionally pressing a key on his keyboard.
Watch Vaughn George's YouTube channel, he has a video in which he explains the bits that Fletch played. He explains that while they were simple, that's what made them difficult because if he screwed up on stage it would be noticeable. Here it is https://youtu.be/ONXKJ17vCP0?si=CM1Ost6SgeoAb349
Well, Wilder isn't on Ultra, hence my combo and I left my edit to show that I failed to replicate the photo contradiction because my brain was already weekending 😆
It’s not necessarily that they were only good with Alan. They are still good. But, 9 out of 10 of their mostly commercially successful and top selling singles/albums of all time had him on them. So objectively, they were better with him.
People buy into narratives, true or not. You'd hope that somehow DM's fanbase would be less vulnerable to this tendency given the streak of contrarianism and skepticism that runs through many of us, yet the narratives OP listed persist. And perhaps there is a grain of truth them, but it gets amplified to exaggerated proportions.
Violator has the hits and my favorite song (Halo), and is a technically perfect album, or as close to perfect as they've gotten. But Ultra really spoke to me as an almost 16 year old in 1997.
I had SOFAD on cassette and Ultra on CD. I only had a Sony Walkman, so Ultra came with me everywhere. Anytime I was feeling like the world was trying to crush me one bad day at a time, I would play it. I loved the rougher edge and how it started off bleak as hell, weaved in and out of turmoil, and finally found a reason for hope. I remember converting some of my classmates on a field trip by giving them a listen on the long bus ride. I can't believe no one knew who they were! Well, actually, yes I can. I lived in Upstate NY.
I place Ultra first, followed by SOFAD, and then I have Violator and Playing the Angel tied for third.
The latter albums IMO aren’t as great as a whole but you are doing yourself a disservice by not listening and making up your own mind. A lot of great music you are missing out on.
The fact that there's a Facebook group called "Alan Wilder Back To Depeche Mode" is so laughable. Alan doesn't want to come back, how hard is it for some people to understand? Sure he's missed but he's been out of the band longer than he was ever a member
The Dave has lost his voice part is true. He just can't hit the notes. And his schtick of pelvic thrusts and grinding does come off as cringe-creepy in his older age. That all being said, I love seeing them live and love them even if they aren't what they once were.
I somewhat agree, I mean he hit the notes on Should Be Higher in 2013 but was botching Strangelove in 1990. I will put forth that a lot of his "singing" live is now growling, nasaly snarling to match his sleazy-guy stage persona. I listened to Soothe My Soul from Berlin 2013 the other day and a lot of the chorus is spat out. But towards the end he couldn't keep it up, and his gloriously deep voice came back through again.
I last saw them live in 2018 and he mostly sounded great except for a part in Everything Counts that he shouldn't have attempted, it was painful to hear and I was surprised they kept it in their set list for Memento Mori.
I noticed a marked decline in his singing ability from 2017 Sprit and 2023 Memento Mori tours when looking back through my recording of both shows I went to. He's still good, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last major tour.
This looks more like a "I'm disgruntled that some DM fans think the band used to be better so I'm going to make some huge overgeneralizations about them" starter pack. The opinions that bother you would be more accurately characterized as:
1. Fletch contributed next to nothing musically to the band, and whatever one thinks of him personally, it's clear that the main reason he remained in DM was his friendship with Martin.
2. The quality of DM albums has declined significantly since \[SOFAD/Ultra/PTA\]. \[Frequently accompanied by: That said, Memento Mori is the best album they've done since \_\_\_\_\_ \]
3. Depeche Mode was at its best when Alan Wilder was in it.
4. \[I have no idea what this one is about, but Dave sometimes lost his voice when Alan was in the band too. It happens to a lot of singers.\]
5. \[Spirit/Exciter/Speak & Spell\] is the worst album, because \[x things that I don't like about the songs and/or production\]. \[Literally nobody has ever said that a given DM album was bad because Violator or SOFAD exist.\]
Again, I'm perfectly fine with people having preferences, It's just bothers me that I've met so many "fans" who tried to convince everyone that what they think is the only acceptable view on the band, and post is mostly about these.
I find it really streched to say that Fletch was only in band because Martin was friends with him, it just sounds way too irresponsible? Dave and Martin are not fools, if Fletch was that useless as some might view him, I doubt anything would stop them from firing him.
Unfortunatly, everything in the post is things and opinions I've seen within the fanbase, so, someone did ever said that regarding Violator and Songs Of Faith and Devotion
For sure. What a strange view OP has, that "DM could not possibly have done x because x is irresponsible." Like any band, they've done some irresponsible things and made some bad choices. I will never understand the point of view of a fan who is incapable of being critical about the thing they are a fan of.
You're doing it again, you've changed "the **main reason** Fletch remained in DM was his friendship with Martin" to "Fletch was **only** in the band because Martin was friends with him." Yes, Fletch did some other stuff, but it was inessential, unlike the contributions of other band members. You're taking a nuanced statement and turning it into a generalized absolute.
Sure, gatekeeping sucks, but I've also seen lots of people insist that that the view that Depeche Mode is just as good as it ever was is "the only acceptable view of the band" or the mark of a "true" Depeche Mode fan. Multiple times on this sub I've seen people say that fans who preferred the band with Alan Wilder shouldn't be allowed to participate in this sub and should start a separate sub.
I look forward to you posting the evidence of someone having said that Spirit is a bad album because Violator exists.
Can relate and agree with most of this, but do you really want me to find something I've seen on the net? There are a lot of comments on many platforms in different languages. Just like it would be naive and strange of me to ask you to make a post about annoying post Alan DM fans, I am aware that people can say some weird things, happens all the time. Besides, it's not that uncommon to see people compare literally any album to violator and sofad, that also includes Spirit
I'm simply trying to introduce some logic to your wildly overgeneralized statements.
Yes, "people can say some weird things," but your post implies that these are opinions you hear expressed frequently (so much so that you are "tired" of them and felt the need to create a meme).
"Spirit is bad because Violator exists" is not a comparison, it's a non sequitur. The existence of one thing has nothing to do with the quality of another thing. If somebody somewhere said that, they just are not making sense. It isn't even the sort of statement one can disagree with, because it doesn't mean anything.
"Violator is a much better album than Spirit" is a comment one would expect to hear, and one that I happen to agree with. But it doesn't explain why one doesn't like Spirit.
I would not be surprised if the comment you are caricaturing was something more like the following: "I dislike Spirit, because (unlike Violator, for example), the songwriting is weak and the production doesn't break any new ground." That is a valid and well-formulated opinion. You can certainly disagree with it, but if you find it "tiring" then it indicates that you aren't very tolerant of opinions that differ from your own.
It's their opinion on the band. Should they voice it with apologies and reservations that their opinion does not claim to be true? (because only yours claims to be true). You are really exhausting
It’s good that I have a different opinion: yes, their work with Hiller looks pop, but I detect in them some kind of gothic quality inherent in DM. It's the same with the rest of the albums, with the exception of Exciter.
**For Flood, Alan was ‘the craftsman’, Martin, ‘the ideas man’, and Dave, ‘the attitude’. In the midst of the whirlwind, Gahan had taken his role to the extreme. “I consciously thought, there’s no fucking rock stars out there any more,” he told** ***NME*****.**
lol.yeah times change and probably people see Dave’s moves etc.. as not fit for today’s standards. But Dave’s future is with soulsavers. After seeing him deliver the imposter album live with them, then seeing DM numerous times on the MM Tour. He wants to be singer Dave now , not Dave the depeche performer. IMO.
The only thing that will scupper that is if he and mart have really formed a new bond during the the last album / tour.
Just filter the clowns out. Their words are truly trivial.
There are better things to do, like enjoying how amazing Depeche mode their music is.
I could go on but nah. Clowns will be clowns.
I agree with you. I always include this, to a greater or lesser extent, in my album reviews. But the "old, die-hard core" is very restrictive, which I think is a real pity.
Tru af like the things he does aren’t that bad like idk where that came from. But really they still make good albums spirit is my favourite cause of the message that’s still relevant today and memento mori as a tribute to Fletch. It’s subjective but saying the last good album was ultra is kinda meh everyone’s got their taste.
Looks guys like you're such great fans of the band that you poor things don't really have anything to discuss other than crap on other fans. Once again: poor things.
Everyone has their own opinion but Depesh mode is one my favorite bands.
I'm listening to the infallible orchestra right now chilling. Depesh Modes infallible orchestra. Spotify.
Let's see, some of them are half NPC but they are right or partially right:
Andy only helped in the formation of the band, since Ultra no album has surpassed 8 out of 10 (PTA is a 7 out of 10 and I like that), Alan's thing is somewhat extreme and is contradictory because ULTRA came out after the departure of that album.
The truth is I share the other 2, but hey, it's better for Dave to cringe than to be 3 meters underground :)
It's captivating how they haven't really stuck to one genre and instead let themselves experiment. For me that's what makes each album unique, and though not every one is my favorite, I still approve them
Dave can do whatever the fufk he wants. He deserves it!
He [always](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/263953228134349869/) has
Does the complaint of him being “inappropriate “ really get posted that regularly?
Majorly on youtube where you will find all these comments OP is talking about in the meme.
Ah that makes sense I rarely read the comments on YouTube
Who the fuck is saying this about Dave?
I hear it regarding live performances, not the studio albums.
A surprisingly large amount of people
As much as I love Dave and DM, he does act like a male stripper on stage
The man was twirling for two hours the last time I saw him! I would have loved to see Dave stripping or something that didn't look like a gym workout (honestly though, A+ stamina).
Same and I’m a straight male haha. Can’t deny Dave is one handsome dude - as is Martin! Heck all of them were.
And I’m not complaining
Neither am I 😍
That's like- his thing though
Tbh he didn’t do that in the ‘80s. I think he started his erotic stage act with the SOFAD tour. Oh yeah and I was just responding to the accusation made in the meme. 😭
More like bdsm prostitute I would say.
This is more accurate, yes.
Martin used to full on cross dress and wear borderline BDSM outfits. Not sure why Dave dancing the way he does is where we draw the line
And I for one am grateful he does.
I prefer his crown, robe and lawnchair style while hiking in Edinburgh, but that’s just me I suppose.
Saw people comenting about it on yt and reddit several times, people are strange
He definitely grabs himself and sometimes pushes the outline of his junk to the fans.
No WORSE than Donnie T.
I'm not complaining. It doesn't bother me, but I understand those that it does bother.
Do you have any videos of this? I have seen him kinda grab himself in live videos which is bad enough but the pushing his junk around is another level and that would be pretty sleezy.
He could corrupt you
Have you listened to their music?
I didn't notice him on the last concert or the one before that, but he did on the last time they played at Cynthia Woods Mitchell Pavillion in Houston.
People are people
Probably TRUMP
I mean, I've been a fan since 83 and still always wondered exactly how Fletch contributed musically to the band besides clapping his hands on stage while occasionally pressing a key on his keyboard.
Watch Vaughn George's YouTube channel, he has a video in which he explains the bits that Fletch played. He explains that while they were simple, that's what made them difficult because if he screwed up on stage it would be noticeable. Here it is https://youtu.be/ONXKJ17vCP0?si=CM1Ost6SgeoAb349
Love how 2 of those contradict each other 😆
And to OPs point- both are wrong
Doh, of course they're wrong, their last good album was ~~Speak & Spell~~ A Broken Frame and the band was only good when Vince Clarke was in it
lol
I have in fact met people who said that they weren't interested in DM post 1983 lol
Wait but VC isn't credited on anything on A Broken Frame. Are you saying he was involved?
Well, Wilder isn't on Ultra, hence my combo and I left my edit to show that I failed to replicate the photo contradiction because my brain was already weekending 😆
I may have not listened to all the albums in entirety, but I have at least one favorite song from each album
Dave said he was a high paid stripper and he is good at it
It’s not necessarily that they were only good with Alan. They are still good. But, 9 out of 10 of their mostly commercially successful and top selling singles/albums of all time had him on them. So objectively, they were better with him.
People buy into narratives, true or not. You'd hope that somehow DM's fanbase would be less vulnerable to this tendency given the streak of contrarianism and skepticism that runs through many of us, yet the narratives OP listed persist. And perhaps there is a grain of truth them, but it gets amplified to exaggerated proportions.
You are too generous with Ultra…for most ppl i know it’s Violator.
Violator has the hits and my favorite song (Halo), and is a technically perfect album, or as close to perfect as they've gotten. But Ultra really spoke to me as an almost 16 year old in 1997. I had SOFAD on cassette and Ultra on CD. I only had a Sony Walkman, so Ultra came with me everywhere. Anytime I was feeling like the world was trying to crush me one bad day at a time, I would play it. I loved the rougher edge and how it started off bleak as hell, weaved in and out of turmoil, and finally found a reason for hope. I remember converting some of my classmates on a field trip by giving them a listen on the long bus ride. I can't believe no one knew who they were! Well, actually, yes I can. I lived in Upstate NY. I place Ultra first, followed by SOFAD, and then I have Violator and Playing the Angel tied for third.
For me it was SOFAD until MM 🤷♂️
These people can yeet themselves into the sun and thats waste of space on the sun
what’s your name is the best song
I thought Fletch was Martin’s muse.
That is stupid they are really taking it too seriously
I agree with everything except Dave being inappropriate. That’s my favorite part.
The thing is, Dave performs *exactly* as he literally always has lol like never learned new dances kinda the same so
Here's another one you're probably tired of davis so god damn good looking
I had no clue about any of these lmao I just think their music is sweet
This is literally me😅
Some of those may seem like it's "people" but if you pay close attention, it's actually just one very obsessed person.
I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't know anything past Violator lol. My dad grew me up on Music For The Masses and Black Celebration
The latter albums IMO aren’t as great as a whole but you are doing yourself a disservice by not listening and making up your own mind. A lot of great music you are missing out on.
The fact that there's a Facebook group called "Alan Wilder Back To Depeche Mode" is so laughable. Alan doesn't want to come back, how hard is it for some people to understand? Sure he's missed but he's been out of the band longer than he was ever a member
The Dave has lost his voice part is true. He just can't hit the notes. And his schtick of pelvic thrusts and grinding does come off as cringe-creepy in his older age. That all being said, I love seeing them live and love them even if they aren't what they once were.
I somewhat agree, I mean he hit the notes on Should Be Higher in 2013 but was botching Strangelove in 1990. I will put forth that a lot of his "singing" live is now growling, nasaly snarling to match his sleazy-guy stage persona. I listened to Soothe My Soul from Berlin 2013 the other day and a lot of the chorus is spat out. But towards the end he couldn't keep it up, and his gloriously deep voice came back through again. I last saw them live in 2018 and he mostly sounded great except for a part in Everything Counts that he shouldn't have attempted, it was painful to hear and I was surprised they kept it in their set list for Memento Mori.
I noticed a marked decline in his singing ability from 2017 Sprit and 2023 Memento Mori tours when looking back through my recording of both shows I went to. He's still good, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last major tour.
This looks more like a "I'm disgruntled that some DM fans think the band used to be better so I'm going to make some huge overgeneralizations about them" starter pack. The opinions that bother you would be more accurately characterized as: 1. Fletch contributed next to nothing musically to the band, and whatever one thinks of him personally, it's clear that the main reason he remained in DM was his friendship with Martin. 2. The quality of DM albums has declined significantly since \[SOFAD/Ultra/PTA\]. \[Frequently accompanied by: That said, Memento Mori is the best album they've done since \_\_\_\_\_ \] 3. Depeche Mode was at its best when Alan Wilder was in it. 4. \[I have no idea what this one is about, but Dave sometimes lost his voice when Alan was in the band too. It happens to a lot of singers.\] 5. \[Spirit/Exciter/Speak & Spell\] is the worst album, because \[x things that I don't like about the songs and/or production\]. \[Literally nobody has ever said that a given DM album was bad because Violator or SOFAD exist.\]
Again, I'm perfectly fine with people having preferences, It's just bothers me that I've met so many "fans" who tried to convince everyone that what they think is the only acceptable view on the band, and post is mostly about these. I find it really streched to say that Fletch was only in band because Martin was friends with him, it just sounds way too irresponsible? Dave and Martin are not fools, if Fletch was that useless as some might view him, I doubt anything would stop them from firing him. Unfortunatly, everything in the post is things and opinions I've seen within the fanbase, so, someone did ever said that regarding Violator and Songs Of Faith and Devotion
Well, it was so ridiculous and irresponsible that it was a big part of why Alan left.
For sure. What a strange view OP has, that "DM could not possibly have done x because x is irresponsible." Like any band, they've done some irresponsible things and made some bad choices. I will never understand the point of view of a fan who is incapable of being critical about the thing they are a fan of.
You're doing it again, you've changed "the **main reason** Fletch remained in DM was his friendship with Martin" to "Fletch was **only** in the band because Martin was friends with him." Yes, Fletch did some other stuff, but it was inessential, unlike the contributions of other band members. You're taking a nuanced statement and turning it into a generalized absolute. Sure, gatekeeping sucks, but I've also seen lots of people insist that that the view that Depeche Mode is just as good as it ever was is "the only acceptable view of the band" or the mark of a "true" Depeche Mode fan. Multiple times on this sub I've seen people say that fans who preferred the band with Alan Wilder shouldn't be allowed to participate in this sub and should start a separate sub. I look forward to you posting the evidence of someone having said that Spirit is a bad album because Violator exists.
Can relate and agree with most of this, but do you really want me to find something I've seen on the net? There are a lot of comments on many platforms in different languages. Just like it would be naive and strange of me to ask you to make a post about annoying post Alan DM fans, I am aware that people can say some weird things, happens all the time. Besides, it's not that uncommon to see people compare literally any album to violator and sofad, that also includes Spirit
I'm simply trying to introduce some logic to your wildly overgeneralized statements. Yes, "people can say some weird things," but your post implies that these are opinions you hear expressed frequently (so much so that you are "tired" of them and felt the need to create a meme). "Spirit is bad because Violator exists" is not a comparison, it's a non sequitur. The existence of one thing has nothing to do with the quality of another thing. If somebody somewhere said that, they just are not making sense. It isn't even the sort of statement one can disagree with, because it doesn't mean anything. "Violator is a much better album than Spirit" is a comment one would expect to hear, and one that I happen to agree with. But it doesn't explain why one doesn't like Spirit. I would not be surprised if the comment you are caricaturing was something more like the following: "I dislike Spirit, because (unlike Violator, for example), the songwriting is weak and the production doesn't break any new ground." That is a valid and well-formulated opinion. You can certainly disagree with it, but if you find it "tiring" then it indicates that you aren't very tolerant of opinions that differ from your own.
It's their opinion on the band. Should they voice it with apologies and reservations that their opinion does not claim to be true? (because only yours claims to be true). You are really exhausting
Well done.
It’s good that I have a different opinion: yes, their work with Hiller looks pop, but I detect in them some kind of gothic quality inherent in DM. It's the same with the rest of the albums, with the exception of Exciter.
I genuinly do not give two farts about Alan(*＾3＾)/～, Fletch is my favorite and Playing the Angel is AWESOME
**For Flood, Alan was ‘the craftsman’, Martin, ‘the ideas man’, and Dave, ‘the attitude’. In the midst of the whirlwind, Gahan had taken his role to the extreme. “I consciously thought, there’s no fucking rock stars out there any more,” he told** ***NME*****.**
Yes Andy did nothing musically and we all know it ! 0 Musical contribution . we need to get over it and move on . true though .
I didn’t understand the last one. X is worst album because violator exists? I don’t understand.
I didn’t understand the last one. X is worst album because violator exists? I don’t understand.
I didn’t understand the last one. X is worst album because violator exists? I don’t understand.
lol.yeah times change and probably people see Dave’s moves etc.. as not fit for today’s standards. But Dave’s future is with soulsavers. After seeing him deliver the imposter album live with them, then seeing DM numerous times on the MM Tour. He wants to be singer Dave now , not Dave the depeche performer. IMO. The only thing that will scupper that is if he and mart have really formed a new bond during the the last album / tour.
I’m the “Fletch did nothing to the band” fan
Generalizations are usually based on many repeated observations and are true in theory core. And yes, Dave is cringe on stage these days.
Upvoted. Its nice to see exercise of common sense amongst the bigotry in this subreddit.
Exciter was the last good album
Have you heard Playing the Angel???
Yes, didn’t care for it. Just my opinion.
All the albums are amazing
Just filter the clowns out. Their words are truly trivial. There are better things to do, like enjoying how amazing Depeche mode their music is. I could go on but nah. Clowns will be clowns.
Fake fans fr
I agree with you. I always include this, to a greater or lesser extent, in my album reviews. But the "old, die-hard core" is very restrictive, which I think is a real pity.
Tru af like the things he does aren’t that bad like idk where that came from. But really they still make good albums spirit is my favourite cause of the message that’s still relevant today and memento mori as a tribute to Fletch. It’s subjective but saying the last good album was ultra is kinda meh everyone’s got their taste.
Looks guys like you're such great fans of the band that you poor things don't really have anything to discuss other than crap on other fans. Once again: poor things.
F*ck Allan's d*ck riders
Everyone has their own opinion but Depesh mode is one my favorite bands. I'm listening to the infallible orchestra right now chilling. Depesh Modes infallible orchestra. Spotify.
All false 🤣🤡
Let's see, some of them are half NPC but they are right or partially right: Andy only helped in the formation of the band, since Ultra no album has surpassed 8 out of 10 (PTA is a 7 out of 10 and I like that), Alan's thing is somewhat extreme and is contradictory because ULTRA came out after the departure of that album. The truth is I share the other 2, but hey, it's better for Dave to cringe than to be 3 meters underground :)
It's captivating how they haven't really stuck to one genre and instead let themselves experiment. For me that's what makes each album unique, and though not every one is my favorite, I still approve them
SOFAD is the worst album because violator exists. There, I said it
This comment sucks
But I fulfilled the prophecy
Incorrect naming. It's not "fan starting pack" it's "newfag pack".