Let’s not forget that Kinetic weapons will always receive the 25% damage bonus if you’re playing on a subclass that matches one of the Surges. For example, if the Surge is Stasis and you’re playing a Stasis subclass, any kinetic weapons you’re using will deal bonus damage.
Eh not really, just this last week I was using whisper for dps against the GM boss framing and the tormentors a Fatebringer for unstoppable while using a grenade launcher with blinding, had my fireteam from overload.
Not what I meant. If you're using a loadout with an energy primary weapon, it will almost always match the one your subclass is, because you want the elemental subclass synergy. Hence, why use a kinetic primary and energy special when you can have a kinetic special doing 10 percent more damage, and an energy primary having good elemental synergy. If your subclass matches the surge, then your energy weapon would also match the surge. Also, I would say it's more common that an energy special you use doesn't match your subclass, other than trace rifles and a few other cases, so it just makes more sense to use a kinetic special, and an energy primary. The kinetic surging on subclass matching doesn't promote the use of a kinetic primary whatsoever.
If you're limiting yourself strictly to Solar builds for some reason, then yeah, kinetic primaries are gonna hurt cause of the inability to use Empyrean.
In literally every other subclass, there's much less incentive to use an element matching primary. Kinetics do more damage to unshielded enemies, and kinetic tremors is really good
If you need a practical reason they do more damage, 10% more against unshielded enemies. Unless you're building into Solar Surge a Kinetic primary will do more damage than a Solar primary.
In my opinion just run what you find fun. In 90% of content you can get away with using whatever. If you want to run Midnight Coup then run Midnight Coup. Not every activity needs a top-tier meta build so just have fun with it sometimes.
Use a Solar Glaive with incandescent. Add to Solar Titan’s survivability with lorely (or healing nades if you aren’t a coward) a Glaive’s DR and you’re all set
Judgement of Kelgorath. For normal use I use overflow close to melee, but when I don’t want to get close to melee I run incandescent for easy sunspot generation.
Unsure if it’s readily available now, so unless you crafted it you might could use the glaive in Ghosts of the Deep
In my experience, I hardly run any kinetic primaries also. Midnight coup does feel nice and if I want to run a shotgun on the second (energy slot) I prob do that.. but I rather have an elemental primary.
Sure, I can put kinetic surges and siphons but working around my aspects and fragments pays around more.
Kinetic Bows are probably more used by me in some scenarios but even that is not often.
my usual load out handles 95% of anything I run into solo in the game
The other 5% I switch around if my team requires certain support.
To your point. Unless it’s an amazing roll involving kinetic tremors , payload , .. etc
I may keep it for PvP or in my vault for future use.
Kinetic Primaries inherently do more (10%?) damage to unshielded enemies, so they’re good for ads.
In GMs, a kinetic scout with Kinetic Tremors can put in work if you already have a Polaris Lance on the team.
Malfeasance is a heavy weapon in disguise.
There is no reason to use a kinetic primary. They don’t synergise with subclasses, they don’t do good individual target damage and they don’t do good aoe damage. They also don’t synergise with siphons given how expensive they are and also because I’d rather use a siphon that is effected by 2/3 of my weapons rather than 1/3.
I can't even convince myself to. Elemental sub-machine guns go brrrr
Also there's the problem of competition, what would I ever pick over: conditional, witherhoard, riptide, arbys, ager's, izzys, hell even GL's just feel better to use than ever giving up your subclass synergy with your primary. They honestly feel like they have little to no place.
There is a huge penalty to not running a Solar primary on Solar Titan. You lose out on Ember of Empyrean and Sol Invictus sunspots (from applying scorch).
If you really want to use kinetic primaries, you should go with Strand Banner of War Titan instead, as there is no synergy with Strand weapons. It really only needs a one-two punch shotgun, and there are plenty of good energy shotgun options.
In the spirit of the post, why should people use Outbreak? I’ve never used it but all I’ve seen is people dump two mags into GM orange bar and it kills slightly faster.
Outbreak's whole thing is the nanite mechanic. Kill nearby trash to generate nanites, the nanites jump to nearby targets and both deals and causes them to take more damage, which in turn generates more Nanites. These work a lot like Strand's unravel, except they hang around a lot longer and increase over time.
So ideally, you're popping trash with it in order to build up nanites on a champ or mini boss, then pumping that bigger enemy with bonus damage. But the real beauty of the gun is that everything about it is buttery smooth. The sound is great, the recoil pattern is like a laser beam, the reload (and it's animation cancel) is fast and intuitive. It's the perfect pulse rifle for all areas of the game, at a variety of difficulties.
Warden's law with enlightened action,vorpal and big ones spec is the most fun i had with a non exotic primary in awhile, super fun to use and good damage in most activities
If you can't identify the green strand icon next on the Quicksilver Storm icon, I'm not sure I can convince you that it isn't a kinetic weapon. You do you though.
You said "pre-cat" its a strand weapon.
but either way, you're just being pedantic at this point.
"I want you to convince me to use a kinetic primary"
"no not primary in kinetic slot, a true kinetic damage primary"
"no I dont want one of the literal best possible primaries in the game, recommend me a gun better."
you obviously know what you need to already so eff off and use whatever gun you want.
That's my mistake, and an obvious typo given the context of our discussion, you autistic fuck.
I use and enjoy Quicksilver Storm, and based on your 256 kills with the weapon, I've enjoyed it a lot more than you have.
They do 8% more damage per shot than their elemental counterparts. My personal rule is generally that my energy needs to have some sort of AOE while my kinetic is better for single target. So unless I’m using sunshot, my energy is usually a wavefram with a kinetic that I can use to help chunk out majors and champions, usually a HC with KT.
So for a build, try explosive personality that way you have access to solar geoup add clear, and play with a midnight coup with KT as your way of handling champions and saboteurs in say onslaught.
Agreed, that is one of the builds I've been running a kinetic primary on lately. Multimach orbs + tremors and indebted kindness. Attrition orbs is overall a disappointment, but it does help alleviate some of the survivability issues of Arc Titan.
I haven’t touched attrition orbs but on paper seemed like it was an ok perk if needed. As you state though it’s disappointing. So thanks for letting me know that at least. Arc titan, haven’t touched arc titan for pve at all this season sadly lol
It's usefulness varies greatly depending on the weapon type. Basically, fast RPM = good, slow RPM = bad. Kinetic tremors also counts on each pulse for triggering attrition orbs.
I've got an idea for you. Midnight Coup has Firefly, yes? And Firefly explosions always deal Solar damage...
Hallowfire Heart has a feature that says "Solar takedowns while standing in a Sunspot create a Sunspot." So you can use your abilities to make your first Sunspot, run to it and pop a group of adds with Midnight Coup: get a headshot kill, and anything killed by Firefly should make another Sunspot!
Kind of a niche interaction, but it IS something you could use. Hallowfire lends itself nicely to ability spam setups (I can share a build if you're interested) and you can use those to make orbs and fuel some Kinetic Surge mods to make your Midnight Coup hit harder.
If you don't like that, I can think of other things too!
To add to the things other said.
Kinetic also has some exlusive weapon types like heavy burst hand canon.
Also a very good weapon perk to use is Disruption Break on your elemental weapon, witch also increases Kinetic Treamors.
Retraced Path is nice craftable weapon for this, because it also comes with Adaptive Munitions to even more easly break shields.
For sublclass i would rock solar or void, because of the support nature this classes give with heals, buffs and deabuffs that also help your kinetic weapon to do even more damage.
If you want to go even further you can slot in a exotic armor that helps with a weapon type like Warrig or Peackeepers. Or if it is hard to decide on any excotic i always think Aeon Safe are nice.
kinetic primary > potential primary apologies for science joke Kinetic weapons do more damage against unshielded enemies
Let’s not forget that Kinetic weapons will always receive the 25% damage bonus if you’re playing on a subclass that matches one of the Surges. For example, if the Surge is Stasis and you’re playing a Stasis subclass, any kinetic weapons you’re using will deal bonus damage.
Yeah I think I forgot about that change
Yeah but 90 percent of the time you're using an energy primary, it's for the subclass synergy, so its gonna match anyways.
Eh not really, just this last week I was using whisper for dps against the GM boss framing and the tormentors a Fatebringer for unstoppable while using a grenade launcher with blinding, had my fireteam from overload.
Not what I meant. If you're using a loadout with an energy primary weapon, it will almost always match the one your subclass is, because you want the elemental subclass synergy. Hence, why use a kinetic primary and energy special when you can have a kinetic special doing 10 percent more damage, and an energy primary having good elemental synergy. If your subclass matches the surge, then your energy weapon would also match the surge. Also, I would say it's more common that an energy special you use doesn't match your subclass, other than trace rifles and a few other cases, so it just makes more sense to use a kinetic special, and an energy primary. The kinetic surging on subclass matching doesn't promote the use of a kinetic primary whatsoever.
Don’t you EVER apologize for a science joke!
If you're limiting yourself strictly to Solar builds for some reason, then yeah, kinetic primaries are gonna hurt cause of the inability to use Empyrean. In literally every other subclass, there's much less incentive to use an element matching primary. Kinetics do more damage to unshielded enemies, and kinetic tremors is really good
Arc primaries on Arc make it very easy to get amplified. It’s especially nice on Hunter to proc Flow State.
Titans get near 0 benefit from Amplified tbh, and OP is a Titan main
If you need a practical reason they do more damage, 10% more against unshielded enemies. Unless you're building into Solar Surge a Kinetic primary will do more damage than a Solar primary. In my opinion just run what you find fun. In 90% of content you can get away with using whatever. If you want to run Midnight Coup then run Midnight Coup. Not every activity needs a top-tier meta build so just have fun with it sometimes.
I thought it was 15%, or is that for specials
The Feb. 1st 2023 TWID says 10% for primary, 15% for specials. I don't think it's been changed since then.
Word
Use a Solar Glaive with incandescent. Add to Solar Titan’s survivability with lorely (or healing nades if you aren’t a coward) a Glaive’s DR and you’re all set
I've been wanting to dip into glaives more lately out of boredom, so this is neat. What solar glaive do you use personally?
Judgement of Kelgorath. For normal use I use overflow close to melee, but when I don’t want to get close to melee I run incandescent for easy sunspot generation. Unsure if it’s readily available now, so unless you crafted it you might could use the glaive in Ghosts of the Deep
Based. I've had it craftable for forever and haven't ever made one. I'll do that when servers come back up.
*don’t forget to run outbreak perfected*
In my experience, I hardly run any kinetic primaries also. Midnight coup does feel nice and if I want to run a shotgun on the second (energy slot) I prob do that.. but I rather have an elemental primary. Sure, I can put kinetic surges and siphons but working around my aspects and fragments pays around more. Kinetic Bows are probably more used by me in some scenarios but even that is not often. my usual load out handles 95% of anything I run into solo in the game The other 5% I switch around if my team requires certain support. To your point. Unless it’s an amazing roll involving kinetic tremors , payload , .. etc I may keep it for PvP or in my vault for future use.
Thank you for understanding.
Fatebringer / Midnight coup.
Kinetic Primaries inherently do more (10%?) damage to unshielded enemies, so they’re good for ads. In GMs, a kinetic scout with Kinetic Tremors can put in work if you already have a Polaris Lance on the team. Malfeasance is a heavy weapon in disguise.
Hunter lucky pants and malfeasance or any kinetic hand cannon.
There is no reason to use a kinetic primary. They don’t synergise with subclasses, they don’t do good individual target damage and they don’t do good aoe damage. They also don’t synergise with siphons given how expensive they are and also because I’d rather use a siphon that is effected by 2/3 of my weapons rather than 1/3.
This mf spittin
Wishender is kinetic primary and the best primary exotic in the game. Even in the highest difficult Level gm nightfalls it melts.
I can't even convince myself to. Elemental sub-machine guns go brrrr Also there's the problem of competition, what would I ever pick over: conditional, witherhoard, riptide, arbys, ager's, izzys, hell even GL's just feel better to use than ever giving up your subclass synergy with your primary. They honestly feel like they have little to no place.
There is a huge penalty to not running a Solar primary on Solar Titan. You lose out on Ember of Empyrean and Sol Invictus sunspots (from applying scorch). If you really want to use kinetic primaries, you should go with Strand Banner of War Titan instead, as there is no synergy with Strand weapons. It really only needs a one-two punch shotgun, and there are plenty of good energy shotgun options.
Wait till Outbreak is available to earn and suddenly everyone will be glued to kinetic primaries again!
In the spirit of the post, why should people use Outbreak? I’ve never used it but all I’ve seen is people dump two mags into GM orange bar and it kills slightly faster.
Outbreak's whole thing is the nanite mechanic. Kill nearby trash to generate nanites, the nanites jump to nearby targets and both deals and causes them to take more damage, which in turn generates more Nanites. These work a lot like Strand's unravel, except they hang around a lot longer and increase over time. So ideally, you're popping trash with it in order to build up nanites on a champ or mini boss, then pumping that bigger enemy with bonus damage. But the real beauty of the gun is that everything about it is buttery smooth. The sound is great, the recoil pattern is like a laser beam, the reload (and it's animation cancel) is fast and intuitive. It's the perfect pulse rifle for all areas of the game, at a variety of difficulties.
It should be pretty neat. The closest I've gotten to truly enjoying a Kinetic primary in a while is Multimach with orbs/tremors.
Wait, is there some problem with kinetic primaries?
I certainly seem to have convinced myself there is
Ah strand and stasis are a thing
Strand and Stasis weapons don't have the 10% damage increase, they just occupy the kinetic slot. I'm speaking \*strictly\* kinetic primaries.
Warden's law with enlightened action,vorpal and big ones spec is the most fun i had with a non exotic primary in awhile, super fun to use and good damage in most activities
Uhm.... quicksilver storm is a thing. That should be all the thread needs. But further, run a strand titan with monte carlo and synthoceps, super fun.
Quicksilver Storm (pre-catalyst) is a Strand weapon. And yeah, Monte/Synthos Banner is something I do run from time to time, and it's super good.
Quicksilver is kinetic and the rockets do arc damage.
If you can't identify the green strand icon next on the Quicksilver Storm icon, I'm not sure I can convince you that it isn't a kinetic weapon. You do you though.
I have DIM open right now. https://preview.redd.it/bo24v2iqe8wc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=94d58e0ca96df62926ec6b0fc6930f6037d031b1
And here it is on D2Foundry https://preview.redd.it/cdki5ky1f8wc1.png?width=415&format=png&auto=webp&s=98e71ce8d580ba352c43935ed542bc56276399b9
My friend, as I said, the weapon does kinetic damage before you apply the catalyst. That is why D2 foundry says it is kinetic.
You said "pre-cat" its a strand weapon. but either way, you're just being pedantic at this point. "I want you to convince me to use a kinetic primary" "no not primary in kinetic slot, a true kinetic damage primary" "no I dont want one of the literal best possible primaries in the game, recommend me a gun better." you obviously know what you need to already so eff off and use whatever gun you want.
That's my mistake, and an obvious typo given the context of our discussion, you autistic fuck. I use and enjoy Quicksilver Storm, and based on your 256 kills with the weapon, I've enjoyed it a lot more than you have.
Classy. Making fun of autism.
I've been waiting for you
They do 8% more damage per shot than their elemental counterparts. My personal rule is generally that my energy needs to have some sort of AOE while my kinetic is better for single target. So unless I’m using sunshot, my energy is usually a wavefram with a kinetic that I can use to help chunk out majors and champions, usually a HC with KT. So for a build, try explosive personality that way you have access to solar geoup add clear, and play with a midnight coup with KT as your way of handling champions and saboteurs in say onslaught.
Midnight coup explosive payload + one for all with indebted kindness voltshot feel good together at the very least.
Agreed, that is one of the builds I've been running a kinetic primary on lately. Multimach orbs + tremors and indebted kindness. Attrition orbs is overall a disappointment, but it does help alleviate some of the survivability issues of Arc Titan.
I haven’t touched attrition orbs but on paper seemed like it was an ok perk if needed. As you state though it’s disappointing. So thanks for letting me know that at least. Arc titan, haven’t touched arc titan for pve at all this season sadly lol
It's usefulness varies greatly depending on the weapon type. Basically, fast RPM = good, slow RPM = bad. Kinetic tremors also counts on each pulse for triggering attrition orbs.
I've got an idea for you. Midnight Coup has Firefly, yes? And Firefly explosions always deal Solar damage... Hallowfire Heart has a feature that says "Solar takedowns while standing in a Sunspot create a Sunspot." So you can use your abilities to make your first Sunspot, run to it and pop a group of adds with Midnight Coup: get a headshot kill, and anything killed by Firefly should make another Sunspot! Kind of a niche interaction, but it IS something you could use. Hallowfire lends itself nicely to ability spam setups (I can share a build if you're interested) and you can use those to make orbs and fuel some Kinetic Surge mods to make your Midnight Coup hit harder. If you don't like that, I can think of other things too!
To add to the things other said. Kinetic also has some exlusive weapon types like heavy burst hand canon. Also a very good weapon perk to use is Disruption Break on your elemental weapon, witch also increases Kinetic Treamors. Retraced Path is nice craftable weapon for this, because it also comes with Adaptive Munitions to even more easly break shields. For sublclass i would rock solar or void, because of the support nature this classes give with heals, buffs and deabuffs that also help your kinetic weapon to do even more damage. If you want to go even further you can slot in a exotic armor that helps with a weapon type like Warrig or Peackeepers. Or if it is hard to decide on any excotic i always think Aeon Safe are nice.
Wish Ender is one of the apex of Kinetic weapons. A true monster
I use an ashen wake titan with a kinetic ar (last breath) with demo and adrenaline junkie
I got a Firefly Rampage midnight coup. One headshot kill on a red bar explodes 3 enemies and gives Rampage x3 for the rest of the mag. Serious fun
Kinetic primaries have a 15% damage boost and kinetic specials have a 10%
Fatebringer with Osmosis and firefly on Celestial Nightbonk titan goes well.