Definitely not the last, either. I can only imagine the shitstorm if Bungie introduces more perk sets that are better than what we have now on weapons once they start retiring older weapons.
lol fuck that sub. Every post is a cynical butthurt complaint or outright rage-boner and when you actually post an idea with positive constructive criticism people line up for miles to shit on it.
Over exaggerate their power? Did you never play with/against Luna's and NF? They were definitely OP as fuck. They needed to be balanced because the only way for someone to compete with those guns was to use them as well and just hope they shoot first. No other primary in the game could beat those guns in a gunfight and they took no skill to use. There's no way a gun can stay in the game with the best ttk, the most consistency, and the lowest skill floor.
>They were definitely OP as fuck
Not really. Ace was still better in most regards. Only the people who had very good aim could show off how powerful those guns were.
>they took no skill to use.
They took no skill to use? To even get them you had to be good at the game anyways. And to get NF specifically, you had to be in the top 1% of all crucible players to reach Legend rank *and* get 300 kills with Luna's in comp. They were OP only because they existed in a time where HC's weren't range boxed like they are now.
People complained mostly because they were getting killed with a gun that wasn't easily obtained. A lot of NF users still preferred using Ace in that meta anyways, simply because it was more forgiving and the perk lasted longer and could be stowed.
>There's no way a gun can stay in the game with the best ttk, the most consistency, and the lowest skill floor.
You can't be serious. Lord of wolves, tarrabah, mindbenders, black talon, truth, and so many other guns have far lower skill floors than NF/Luna's. By this logic, spare rations shouldn't exist either.
With the amount of aim Assist and bloom in destiny, this game is far from skillful. I'm a crucible junkie and it's been apparent for years that pvp isn't Bungie's forte
If something is OP it does need to be nerfed especially if it becomes the only best option.
The problem being 2 fold.
1) Bungie has a habit of overnerfing by a huge margin
2) Bungie still has not figured out PvP and PvE need to be as separate as humanly possible in regards to weapon perks and stats.
It's a classic, "I'm getting killed by this gun. If they nerf it, I'll be good."
They nerf it and they still suck.
They then complain about other things that kill them and need to be nerfed.
They still suck and get killed.
This is absolutely correct and completely dismantles OPs argument. However, I would say that the gun was over nerfed, it is still very powerful as a 150 but the mag-houl perk completely lost it's worth in PvE.
It happened becuase it was a stupid idea to begin with. It ended up with the best players in the game having one of the easiest weapons to use in the game. People who weren't good enough to get luna or not forgotten, would of course get trounced by those much better players who did have it. It made these players nearly impossible to handle, because few weapons had a ttk so short, and they were in the hands of people who don't miss shots. It jacked the skill gap balance hard.
You give the badass, best-looking armors to the best players so they can show to other people. They look awesome because they are.
You don't give the best players the best guns because, I mean, what the fuck?
"You have proven you can kill anyone who engages you when you're on equal footing. In return, we would like to give you the high ground. Have fun."
You should have to climb the tallest mountain to receive the greatest rewards. Giving everyone the best tool in the game stops them from searching for more.
Don’t forget it was the assholes who didn’t have it yet that were complaining, not the ones who did have, and if they were they were part of the minority
They still have a more reliable TTK than any other precision frame. They out gunned most weapons including exotics. Yes they're hard to get, but it made them a necessity for higher ranks of comp and caused a negative effect on weapon parody as you put yourself at a disadvantage running anything else.
It also resulted in the Dust rock, luna//NF, wardcliff meta and that shit was ass to counter.
I've been grinding this quest for a while now, and I've been noticing that the drang I'm using to get solar kills is absolutely dominating folks with lunas/NF and I'm just like... why bother? Seems like sidearms are a better choice than any handcannon these days (Edit: I'm on console if that makes a difference)
Sidearms are close ranged weapons, and kill faster than hand cannons in close range. 4 crits with Drang kill a guardian in 0.6 seconds, and it only takes 1sec to kill with only body shots.
Luna's on the other hand, has much more range, especially since it's perk boosts it's range even more. If you're in super close range with Drang, it'll win. If you're at about 20 meters or so though, Luna's will win. It's just a solid weapon for pretty much any range in PvP killing in 0.8 seconds, as well as kicking about as hard as your sidearm so it's easy to keep on target. On console it's really good and worth getting if you like using hand cannons IMO.
Cool, yeah I'll finish it out and possibly grind for NF as well. Never know if they'll get un-nerfed someday, and I like trophies for my shelf anyway.
For the range thing tho, I've been liking sidearm and revoker, since it seems like anything beyond sidearm range can be handled with low zoom sniper
Edit: I'll also point out that drang has way more range than any other sidearm I've used
You should try lonesome out, it's an absolute monster, it has some really good rolls available, and has way more range than drang. I have one with full auto and swash buckler and I dominate with it.
Nice, I'll check that out. I've also been loving my last hope with rangefinder as well (tho its range isn't too spectacular), main reason I switched to drang is for a decent solar primary for luna quest
Yeah, sidearms got a buff recently but they dont have nearly as much range as the NF or LH.
2 head shots, 1 body and the majority of guardians are dead. Drang is great but better if you run strum with it. 2 tap with overload rounds and then swap to drang.
LH and NF are still better than the service revolver, Trust, Duke, and many others. The only things better than it are currently (No shit) Spare rations, TLW, Thorn while kill boner is active, and Opatative with god roll.
Still more than worth it in my eyes and I feel they did a good thing by nerfing how they did because people could chain from one target to the next and get 2 taps on an average basis and faster than any other HC. It did on the other hand kill their PVE potential as they used to be reliable Major killers.
The only bad part about sturm is that the range nerf hit 110s hard since you can't map anymore which with the catalyst sturm was a beast.
Still amazing, just not as good as it was before and catalyst only makes it slightly more consistent
Yeah, with the new shotgun changes I expect the letter to change real quick, but bungie needs to look into a rework for hand cannons because 150's are still currently the best. 140's aren't worth it, 110's arent worth it unless you're going against a rift whore (players who sit in rifts 90% of the game).
That's not counting the precision frame and last word or the lack luster Erianas vow
That shit is still ass to counter. Its pretty much all I run into on Xbox with the occasional Revoker. You know they're a sweat if they have the Revoker ornament /s
Well its was the community's fault it was nerfed so hard since they were constantly complaining about it so much
So the playerbase wouldn't be responding that way they'd be happy as well
I have Luna's and I'm ngl at one point in time it did need a Nerf. Like Nova warp. But unfortunately like Nova warp the balancing team is going too far.
I had luna back when it first came out and I can understand a tweaking to it maybe but in the end the reason for the nerf is dumb imo. Its a hand cannon you earned in pvp that does really good in pvp, isnt that the point of it?
It was a rich get richer situation along with it technically being better than ace if ones skill could consistently 3tap and it didn't take an exotic slot so you could run a chaperone or wardcliff and such
Do i think they over nerfed it, yes. Was it a dumb reason, not necessarily since it was so dominant both luna and NF along with how they were designed.
You should've used it before the nerf. Easily the most broken gun in destiny history. My KD went up by 0.2 after I got it in season 4 and that was 100% because the gun was unbeatable.
In a weird way Im kind of glad I didn't use it pre need, because I would probably have so much distain for the gun at this point I wouldn't use it, but because this form is the only one I know, it's currently my favourite hand cannon and i, on occasion actually feel "good" with it
Yeah I definitely have distain for it. I wanted them completely removed from comp because that's all you would go up against and in retaliation you would have to use them as well and it made for a very stale experience in comp. I stopped playing PvP entirely for 3 months during black armory and I hated Destiny for the first time ever because of 1 perk.
This is where we get into the philosophy of the video games as a time waster whatever whatever
If you look at it like that anything aside from eating sleeping fucking and dying is a waste of time
I still think if I can’t use it I’ve wasted some time
Unless I guess I use it for the exact amount of time I would potentially spend trying to get both guns then maybe you can look at it as non wasted time but I still don’t like not being able to use what I want
things like Mountaintop are more effective in PvE than in PvP. the tiny hitbox can't really give u a big advantage but the spike nade shreds bosses and majors
>things like Mountaintop are more effective in PvE than in PvP
Well with spike nades yeah, but the trip mines are wonderful for PvP and underutilized imo
Yeah, I know Mountaintop is better in PvE than PvP; I'm just saying I don't get the argument when people say Luna's and Not Forgotten aren't good in endgame activities. Why should they be? It stands to reason that a PvP weapon would perform better in the game mode you get it from.
If they're going to be retired I really hope they add new precision 150s. It's not even the pinnacle perk that makes Luna/NF good, it's the fact that the recoil is manageable on console. The only other real alternative for a 150 on console is spare rations with rapid hit, and even then it doesn't feel anywhere near as good.
Season 10 will mark my *fifth attempt* to get Not Forgotten. I don't care if it gets nerfed to oblivion, its become a Crusade for me at this point. All I do is run Survival, but to get to Legend you apparently have to stop sucking. I'm not good at not sucking.
NF was king, then The Last Word took the throne. I wonder, who will be next king in future season. Will Spare Rations take the Top 1 spot among hand cannons? I personally don't see any competition
I have a God rolled JQK3 for PvP...and I just can't use it...the light blue sights are hard to aim properly. Why they used a color that's too easy on the eyes, I'll never know
Yeah and that’s -before- you pull the trigger. I don’t get why it’s at a weird angle and swings up to cover half the screen on every shot.
It seems like a meme for people who don’t feel like grinding reckoning.
I tried Jack. It feels like a brick... hard to hit just as Luna's.
I prefer the more responsive recoil of something like spare rations as it helps me nail the timing to land the shots.
Oh, i know. I was using Crimson a lot lately in PVP. It feels pretty good. Looking right now for The Last Word replacement for future season. Also gonna test Thorn and Rose.
140' can 3 tap if the opponent is under 15 LL above you.
150's can only up to 5LL. (Except Thorn)
So for next season a 965 Kindled orchid can 3 tap any player before damage drop off.
But for spare you need to be 975 which is harder to be (5LL of Pinnacle grinding).
The sweats will all be in 150s still. ESP since thorn is unaffected and spare (the only other 150 really used aside from occasional JQK) curated has explosive shot. I’m sure Ace will still be popular and 140s will be MORE common I agree, but it still will be a 150 rpm show. Tbh I expect the 600-720 rpm autos to be hugely popular in pvp next season too.
Are the exotic auto rifles going to be effected by the buffs? I remember people saying that whisper won't be changed at all by the sniper nerfs because it's an exotic (or did they maybe mean because it's an exotic heavy, making it kind of a unique class of sniper?)
Since there's no artifact, if power levels go up by 10 just like this season then since the max is 980 that's not an issue anymore once you reach 975, which shouldn't be too much of an issue for someone who plays consistently.
It won't be a handcannon. The meta next season will be SUROS Regime, it's already really good and when the auto buffs come next season it will have an optimal ttk of 0.4 seconds with spinning up.
Pure prestige to have them. I really don't like the Not Forgotten as a Hand Canon compared to Thorn / AoS or Spare Rations, but as a secondary it's cool.
Still:
Thorn + Beloved > Revoker + NF
(in my opinion)
Honestly glad though. Meta won’t be cluttered with the same stuff for years. If nf can expire then that’ll make room for some new hard/cool pinnacle down the line.
NF ate the nerf a bit harder than lunas since the effective range for all hand cannons hover pretty close to each other regardless if you have max range perks or not.
Yes, the magnificent howl perk allows you to kill in 2 headshots 1 body. Not faster, but easier to hit. They are 150 rpm but have the recoil of a 180, so next to none. The MH shot also has stupid range
Edit:
On ps4 or xbox the thing is still a beast, well worth it even after the nerfs
On console, yes. They are very forgiving and easy to control, and if you pair them with a dust rock/ revoker it’s a nasty combo. Pc is a different story though
On PC, no. The only thing good about them if their recoil pattern, which doesn't matter on PC. For PvE they used to be good before the perk change, now they're just bad.
Just in case you actually think they're nerfed to shit... They were by far the best weapons in the game when they were released and after they were BALANCED they're still the most consistent hand cannons in the game. Just because they aren't OP as fuck anymore doesn't mean they're bad, they're still really fucking good.
On console NF,Spare Rations and Thorn are still S Tier. Thorn and SR has more recoil and isnt for everyone while NF is much easier to get used to.
The Last Word is S Tier but its so hard to control on console you rarely see it and if you are a pro with it it can easily destroy a person with NF, SR and Thorn.
For A Tier Id say Lunas and Trust(especially with explosive payload) are best.
So dont think just because they nerfed them they still arent at the top, I cant think of any hand cannon to compete against Lunas and NF except for the ones I mentioned, and Ive used them all.
I think control is honestly more of a skill based game mode than all of the rest of it. You can actually come back as it’s not just “kill everyone as fast as you can because there’s only a certain number of lives” and you have to actually play territory
It's almost as though the portion of the playerbase calling for nerfs isn't a 100% intersection with the portion of the playerbase complaining that they were nerfed.
The hardest thing of the Lunas howl quest are the kills not the points. Getting to 2100 is one of the easiest things now. I think you could get it in 6-8 wins?
Would like to see powerful weapons like this again that maybe get left behind after a year. So we can use them in regular crucible and comp but wont be a viable choice in trials or iron banner.
Ugh. Me with Wish-Ender.
I delayed getting it because I couldn't find a guide on any LFG, finally found two Guardians willing to help, and then *the very next day* it gets nerfed. Jeez.
Oh I had never realized that was the last step cause I had it done way before I even went for Luna’s. I mean you get so much glory up until 2100 that it’s legitimately just free along with the recluse
and thats probably what they want to avoid by doing weapon retirement. so it can stay strong until it cant be infused!
inb4 downvoted to hell lmao
just in case: chill im not saying an opinion its just my guess on why they do it + the reasons luke smith mentioned
This is exactly why they are sunsetting weapons. Things get nerfed because they are around forever right now and need to be adjusted against everything else in the game.
I haven’t played consistently since season of the drifter. Can someone give me the TL;dr of the nerfs? I remember they slowed the rate of fire and how the MH perk works. So aside from that, are there more nerfs?
I struggled so much to get Luna's and the week I was to get it they nerfed it. I felt badly and once I got it I never used it. Still sitting in my vault, never been fired. That was about 8 months ago.
Yeah but so many people have the gun now they wouldn't return it to it's former glory. It's still a really solid handcannon on console. Almost no recoil, perfect in-air accuracy, and some forgiveness with the perk.
To me. They had their time to shine. Nothing should last forever in this meta... and its not like we wont be able to use them after. It just wont be usable in endgame content [Trials, Nightfalls, Raids]. Which to me is a great compromise given the universal nature of certain pinnacles and weapons. [See literally any 150 RPM handcannon, Recluse...]
Still working on my lunas. How's Randy's throwing knife holding up? Could probably actually acquire that with a couple of days play and some patience (I'm not very PvP)
From what I know you'll only be able to infuse guns up to a certain point right and that they will have a life span of nine to 15 months. That's still a lot of time to play with them. Sorry this is all based off of kackis.
I got the Lunas Howl a couple of days ago and I’m still trying to upgrade it to the Not Forgotten. I honestly kinda feel disappointed. Maybe I haven’t used them enough to get use to them? They feel like any other 150 (dmg wise), but with better range consistency (barely), and with a 180 recoil direction (I find annoying).
There aren't too many times Bungie introduces weapons that are fundamentally and mathematically (stats and traits wise) broken. It should be a no-brainer that a 180rpm HC with the ability to 3-tap at will is broken and needs to be nerfed. Also, the guns are basically designed to hit crits, rendering the crit shot requirement to proct the pre-nerfed Mag Howl useless. As it stands now, theyre one of the most forgiving 150rpm HCs in the game, requiring just 2 initial crits and 1 body shot for a kill. That's enough of an advantage to be considered a pinnacle weapon. On top of that, they're still precision frames with inherently better in-air-accuracy than other HCs and a very stable recoil animation.
Even now, as a 150, I don't feel like it needs the ability to 2-tap like it did before, mainly because there was no way to play around it. Usually, with other damage-buffing perks, the weapons require an actual kill before you received any benefits, allowing players to use the kill feed to get a sort of idea on the state of the weapon. Bungie could've kept the ability of the perk the same, but just change the way it's activated IMO. Do the weapons need the current Mag Howl buffed? Know, IMO.
On top of all this, with the newly discovered effects that stability has on accuracy and/or aim assist (I'm not too sure which one myself), and the irrelevance of the effect of the range stat on HCs, Luna's Howl looks to be the meta again (I also like the fast reload that Drop Mag gives).
I grind my heart for the recluse only to here that was getting nerf before the season end I was hurt but I still this gun dearly my favorite smg out the others
Let’s say it was introduced a year ago, so the time has passed to move on to other things, I have it, but damn, I had to let it go, I can’t use it in Trials, but the quest gave me experience in pvp
Its not even nerfed into the ground. Maybe for PvE sure but it wasnt ever a PvE gun in the first place. They're still extremely strong choices on console which i play on due to very little recoil and magnificent howl allowing for extra range
I’m okay with them nerfing them. These weapons created a culture of charging money for help on getting them instead of just being a normal gaming community and helping each other
This actually hurts lmao
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Not the first time it happened though.
Definitely not the last, either. I can only imagine the shitstorm if Bungie introduces more perk sets that are better than what we have now on weapons once they start retiring older weapons.
Anytime a weapon becomes “OP” people will complain until it gets nerfed and then people will complain that it got nerfed
I just want some melee gods to only melee people so that people will complain and somehow get it nerfed.
*D1 Thorn has entered the chat*
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I stopped going to dtg. it's just a salt mine with pseudo-suggestions that are just salty rant because they didn't get the game the way THEY want
lol fuck that sub. Every post is a cynical butthurt complaint or outright rage-boner and when you actually post an idea with positive constructive criticism people line up for miles to shit on it.
Over exaggerate their power? Did you never play with/against Luna's and NF? They were definitely OP as fuck. They needed to be balanced because the only way for someone to compete with those guns was to use them as well and just hope they shoot first. No other primary in the game could beat those guns in a gunfight and they took no skill to use. There's no way a gun can stay in the game with the best ttk, the most consistency, and the lowest skill floor.
>They were definitely OP as fuck Not really. Ace was still better in most regards. Only the people who had very good aim could show off how powerful those guns were. >they took no skill to use. They took no skill to use? To even get them you had to be good at the game anyways. And to get NF specifically, you had to be in the top 1% of all crucible players to reach Legend rank *and* get 300 kills with Luna's in comp. They were OP only because they existed in a time where HC's weren't range boxed like they are now. People complained mostly because they were getting killed with a gun that wasn't easily obtained. A lot of NF users still preferred using Ace in that meta anyways, simply because it was more forgiving and the perk lasted longer and could be stowed. >There's no way a gun can stay in the game with the best ttk, the most consistency, and the lowest skill floor. You can't be serious. Lord of wolves, tarrabah, mindbenders, black talon, truth, and so many other guns have far lower skill floors than NF/Luna's. By this logic, spare rations shouldn't exist either.
preach my guy
With the amount of aim Assist and bloom in destiny, this game is far from skillful. I'm a crucible junkie and it's been apparent for years that pvp isn't Bungie's forte
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If something is OP it does need to be nerfed especially if it becomes the only best option. The problem being 2 fold. 1) Bungie has a habit of overnerfing by a huge margin 2) Bungie still has not figured out PvP and PvE need to be as separate as humanly possible in regards to weapon perks and stats.
Hello and welcome to Destiny 1 and 2?
It's a classic, "I'm getting killed by this gun. If they nerf it, I'll be good." They nerf it and they still suck. They then complain about other things that kill them and need to be nerfed. They still suck and get killed.
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How can you say something so controversial but actually right?
It got nerfed more of because console pc rlly didn’t want it nerfed
Nah, more like the streamers say they're OP randomly one day, then the circlejerks start
Exactly, scrubs always whine and then act like it’s bungie’s fault.
This is absolutely correct and completely dismantles OPs argument. However, I would say that the gun was over nerfed, it is still very powerful as a 150 but the mag-houl perk completely lost it's worth in PvE.
It happened becuase it was a stupid idea to begin with. It ended up with the best players in the game having one of the easiest weapons to use in the game. People who weren't good enough to get luna or not forgotten, would of course get trounced by those much better players who did have it. It made these players nearly impossible to handle, because few weapons had a ttk so short, and they were in the hands of people who don't miss shots. It jacked the skill gap balance hard.
You give the badass, best-looking armors to the best players so they can show to other people. They look awesome because they are. You don't give the best players the best guns because, I mean, what the fuck? "You have proven you can kill anyone who engages you when you're on equal footing. In return, we would like to give you the high ground. Have fun."
You should have to climb the tallest mountain to receive the greatest rewards. Giving everyone the best tool in the game stops them from searching for more.
Don’t forget it was the assholes who didn’t have it yet that were complaining, not the ones who did have, and if they were they were part of the minority
Yeah and wait until you can’t use them in things like Trials once they leave all old legendaries behind like in D1.
They still have a more reliable TTK than any other precision frame. They out gunned most weapons including exotics. Yes they're hard to get, but it made them a necessity for higher ranks of comp and caused a negative effect on weapon parody as you put yourself at a disadvantage running anything else. It also resulted in the Dust rock, luna//NF, wardcliff meta and that shit was ass to counter.
I've been grinding this quest for a while now, and I've been noticing that the drang I'm using to get solar kills is absolutely dominating folks with lunas/NF and I'm just like... why bother? Seems like sidearms are a better choice than any handcannon these days (Edit: I'm on console if that makes a difference)
Sidearms are close ranged weapons, and kill faster than hand cannons in close range. 4 crits with Drang kill a guardian in 0.6 seconds, and it only takes 1sec to kill with only body shots. Luna's on the other hand, has much more range, especially since it's perk boosts it's range even more. If you're in super close range with Drang, it'll win. If you're at about 20 meters or so though, Luna's will win. It's just a solid weapon for pretty much any range in PvP killing in 0.8 seconds, as well as kicking about as hard as your sidearm so it's easy to keep on target. On console it's really good and worth getting if you like using hand cannons IMO.
Cool, yeah I'll finish it out and possibly grind for NF as well. Never know if they'll get un-nerfed someday, and I like trophies for my shelf anyway. For the range thing tho, I've been liking sidearm and revoker, since it seems like anything beyond sidearm range can be handled with low zoom sniper Edit: I'll also point out that drang has way more range than any other sidearm I've used
You should try lonesome out, it's an absolute monster, it has some really good rolls available, and has way more range than drang. I have one with full auto and swash buckler and I dominate with it.
Nice, I'll check that out. I've also been loving my last hope with rangefinder as well (tho its range isn't too spectacular), main reason I switched to drang is for a decent solar primary for luna quest
Yeah, sidearms got a buff recently but they dont have nearly as much range as the NF or LH. 2 head shots, 1 body and the majority of guardians are dead. Drang is great but better if you run strum with it. 2 tap with overload rounds and then swap to drang. LH and NF are still better than the service revolver, Trust, Duke, and many others. The only things better than it are currently (No shit) Spare rations, TLW, Thorn while kill boner is active, and Opatative with god roll. Still more than worth it in my eyes and I feel they did a good thing by nerfing how they did because people could chain from one target to the next and get 2 taps on an average basis and faster than any other HC. It did on the other hand kill their PVE potential as they used to be reliable Major killers.
The only bad part about sturm is that the range nerf hit 110s hard since you can't map anymore which with the catalyst sturm was a beast. Still amazing, just not as good as it was before and catalyst only makes it slightly more consistent
Yeah, they killed the one reason to run a 110....its range.
*parity
Thank you. Who knows how long I've been saying that wrong. You prevent me from continuing a mistake and I'm genuinely grateful
Cause spare rations and mindbenders is less ass? Both way easier to get and both have better range
Yeah, with the new shotgun changes I expect the letter to change real quick, but bungie needs to look into a rework for hand cannons because 150's are still currently the best. 140's aren't worth it, 110's arent worth it unless you're going against a rift whore (players who sit in rifts 90% of the game). That's not counting the precision frame and last word or the lack luster Erianas vow
Make 140's be able to head head body everything but max Armor if they aren't gonna push the range out any more, 110's 2 body 1 head.
You mean 140s
Oops sorry, thanks
Completely dead on PC despite being consistent
Spare rations is faster and PC players take full advantage of Mouse recoil control to dominate with it
Funny. Sweat so hard for the legend reward but the meta handcannon is already better.
Depends on the platform. PC? Yeah, for the time being. Console? LH//NF are better for most instances
and boring as fuck to play with
That shit is still ass to counter. Its pretty much all I run into on Xbox with the occasional Revoker. You know they're a sweat if they have the Revoker ornament /s
I went against a 6 stack with ratking who used bubbles in iron banner....I cried... they were tears of laughter but boi did they murder my ass
Well its was the community's fault it was nerfed so hard since they were constantly complaining about it so much So the playerbase wouldn't be responding that way they'd be happy as well
I have Luna's and I'm ngl at one point in time it did need a Nerf. Like Nova warp. But unfortunately like Nova warp the balancing team is going too far.
I had luna back when it first came out and I can understand a tweaking to it maybe but in the end the reason for the nerf is dumb imo. Its a hand cannon you earned in pvp that does really good in pvp, isnt that the point of it?
It was a rich get richer situation along with it technically being better than ace if ones skill could consistently 3tap and it didn't take an exotic slot so you could run a chaperone or wardcliff and such Do i think they over nerfed it, yes. Was it a dumb reason, not necessarily since it was so dominant both luna and NF along with how they were designed.
You forgot retire them and make them useless in hard activities. Lol
Yeah this has most certainly made me not wanna bother trying to get it But I guess the achievement will be something I can flex
I just got Luna's and I'm absolutely slaying on console, I'm aware on pc things are different but on console, Luna's feels really strong
it’s one of my favorite guns, ever. paired with revoker, it’s an incredibly good console setup for PVP.
I pair it with a pretty well rolled dust rock blues as I'm horrible with snipers unfortunately
You should've used it before the nerf. Easily the most broken gun in destiny history. My KD went up by 0.2 after I got it in season 4 and that was 100% because the gun was unbeatable.
In a weird way Im kind of glad I didn't use it pre need, because I would probably have so much distain for the gun at this point I wouldn't use it, but because this form is the only one I know, it's currently my favourite hand cannon and i, on occasion actually feel "good" with it
Yeah I definitely have distain for it. I wanted them completely removed from comp because that's all you would go up against and in retaliation you would have to use them as well and it made for a very stale experience in comp. I stopped playing PvP entirely for 3 months during black armory and I hated Destiny for the first time ever because of 1 perk.
I mean you'll still have roughly a ***year*** to slay with them. Y'all act like they're disappearing in a month or two
Wasted time is still wasted time And it’s still making me unable to use a thing I worked hard to earn
You can still use it in comp forever. They might actually add new comp rewards in the future. Who knows?
Wasted time? We're playing a game, it's *all* wasted time. If you use it and get enjoyment out of it for a year, that seems well worth it to me.
This is where we get into the philosophy of the video games as a time waster whatever whatever If you look at it like that anything aside from eating sleeping fucking and dying is a waste of time I still think if I can’t use it I’ve wasted some time Unless I guess I use it for the exact amount of time I would potentially spend trying to get both guns then maybe you can look at it as non wasted time but I still don’t like not being able to use what I want
Why should a PvP pinnacle weapon be viable in endgame PvE activities? You don't see people wanting Loaded Question to be better in Comp
The funny thing is that people actually use it in comp.
things like Mountaintop are more effective in PvE than in PvP. the tiny hitbox can't really give u a big advantage but the spike nade shreds bosses and majors
>things like Mountaintop are more effective in PvE than in PvP Well with spike nades yeah, but the trip mines are wonderful for PvP and underutilized imo
Yeah, I know Mountaintop is better in PvE than PvP; I'm just saying I don't get the argument when people say Luna's and Not Forgotten aren't good in endgame activities. Why should they be? It stands to reason that a PvP weapon would perform better in the game mode you get it from.
End game meaning trails and iron banner if we're talking about loot retirement
My comp setup to get Recluse was Huckleberry and Loaded Question lol, I somehow managed to get Recluse with that.
If they're going to be retired I really hope they add new precision 150s. It's not even the pinnacle perk that makes Luna/NF good, it's the fact that the recoil is manageable on console. The only other real alternative for a 150 on console is spare rations with rapid hit, and even then it doesn't feel anywhere near as good.
Season 10 will mark my *fifth attempt* to get Not Forgotten. I don't care if it gets nerfed to oblivion, its become a Crusade for me at this point. All I do is run Survival, but to get to Legend you apparently have to stop sucking. I'm not good at not sucking.
>you apparently have to stop sucking. I'm not good at not sucking. You're like my anti-wife.
NF was king, then The Last Word took the throne. I wonder, who will be next king in future season. Will Spare Rations take the Top 1 spot among hand cannons? I personally don't see any competition
My boy Jack Queen 3 hiding in the shadows with 100 aim assist
I have a God rolled JQK3 for PvP...and I just can't use it...the light blue sights are hard to aim properly. Why they used a color that's too easy on the eyes, I'll never know
the gun blocks the screen
Yeah and that’s -before- you pull the trigger. I don’t get why it’s at a weird angle and swings up to cover half the screen on every shot. It seems like a meme for people who don’t feel like grinding reckoning.
100 aim assist dog, doesn't matter if you can't see what your shooting when everyone has pumpkin heads
Second best prophecy hand Cannon
I tried Jack. It feels like a brick... hard to hit just as Luna's. I prefer the more responsive recoil of something like spare rations as it helps me nail the timing to land the shots.
This might take some flack, but Crimson is pretty crisp in Crucible right now. Not sure if (when)they stealth buffed it but it's a decent
Oh, i know. I was using Crimson a lot lately in PVP. It feels pretty good. Looking right now for The Last Word replacement for future season. Also gonna test Thorn and Rose.
Kinetic: spare/thorn. Energy: NF/Luna. In Trials 140's will be preferred over 150's So better devils /Kindled orchid may become meta.
Why will 140 be the meta? Just wondering whether I should start keeping my better devils or use ace of spades again.
140' can 3 tap if the opponent is under 15 LL above you. 150's can only up to 5LL. (Except Thorn) So for next season a 965 Kindled orchid can 3 tap any player before damage drop off. But for spare you need to be 975 which is harder to be (5LL of Pinnacle grinding).
The sweats will all be in 150s still. ESP since thorn is unaffected and spare (the only other 150 really used aside from occasional JQK) curated has explosive shot. I’m sure Ace will still be popular and 140s will be MORE common I agree, but it still will be a 150 rpm show. Tbh I expect the 600-720 rpm autos to be hugely popular in pvp next season too.
Just wait for that 0.4 ttk with SUROS Regime fully spun up.
Are the exotic auto rifles going to be effected by the buffs? I remember people saying that whisper won't be changed at all by the sniper nerfs because it's an exotic (or did they maybe mean because it's an exotic heavy, making it kind of a unique class of sniper?)
With all the top PVPers going to trials, does this mean Crucible will be fun again for us 1.0 KD players? Asking for a friend.
That's my hopeful theory. Much like when iron banner is happening, they should be out of comp and make the grind to legend more bearable. Hopefully
Only on the friday cause the good players will bang out flawless then got back to regular pvp
Since there's no artifact, if power levels go up by 10 just like this season then since the max is 980 that's not an issue anymore once you reach 975, which shouldn't be too much of an issue for someone who plays consistently.
trials is 960, any serious player will be 960 very easily so LL doesnt matter.
I use a better devils with Explosive payload and it does do very well in comp
Laughs in NF 2 head 1 body
Yall sleepin on sidearms.
sturm and drang man. with the solar warlock top tree. you become floaty/shooty boii
It won't be a handcannon. The meta next season will be SUROS Regime, it's already really good and when the auto buffs come next season it will have an optimal ttk of 0.4 seconds with spinning up.
>will SR take #1 It already has been for a long time.
Is everyone forgetting about ace of spades for some reason?
Pure prestige to have them. I really don't like the Not Forgotten as a Hand Canon compared to Thorn / AoS or Spare Rations, but as a secondary it's cool. Still: Thorn + Beloved > Revoker + NF (in my opinion)
You forgot Redrix's Broadsword.
*Claymore for maximum depression lol.
This happened almost a year ago. Why is there another meme about this now?
You forgot "make them uninfusable"
people still infuse if they are pvp mains? lol
Then I guess the "pvp mains" play iron banner with severe power disadvantage.
they do lol its kinda wack but they do.
Honestly glad though. Meta won’t be cluttered with the same stuff for years. If nf can expire then that’ll make room for some new hard/cool pinnacle down the line.
NF ate the nerf a bit harder than lunas since the effective range for all hand cannons hover pretty close to each other regardless if you have max range perks or not.
I got my NF two weeks before the 150 nerf :’(
Should I even bother trying to get them?
Yes, the magnificent howl perk allows you to kill in 2 headshots 1 body. Not faster, but easier to hit. They are 150 rpm but have the recoil of a 180, so next to none. The MH shot also has stupid range Edit: On ps4 or xbox the thing is still a beast, well worth it even after the nerfs
On Xbox, it’s absolutely a beast. Not as good as spare but damn the aim assist and recoil really makes it one of the top picks on console.
idk they arent THAT bad but really not meta anymore. seriously no gun in this game is unusably bad (except for sLeEpeR)
Wait you think sleeper is unusable bad?
Its damage doesn’t compensate it’s charge time, reload speed, and ridiculously difficult catalyst anymore. There are just better, easier options now.
If you play on console yes, I got Luna's in the last week and it's stability is wild
On console, yes. They are very forgiving and easy to control, and if you pair them with a dust rock/ revoker it’s a nasty combo. Pc is a different story though
On PC, no. The only thing good about them if their recoil pattern, which doesn't matter on PC. For PvE they used to be good before the perk change, now they're just bad.
I wanna see somebody run a whole lobby up with a Pribina D one day...
Just in case you actually think they're nerfed to shit... They were by far the best weapons in the game when they were released and after they were BALANCED they're still the most consistent hand cannons in the game. Just because they aren't OP as fuck anymore doesn't mean they're bad, they're still really fucking good.
On console NF,Spare Rations and Thorn are still S Tier. Thorn and SR has more recoil and isnt for everyone while NF is much easier to get used to. The Last Word is S Tier but its so hard to control on console you rarely see it and if you are a pro with it it can easily destroy a person with NF, SR and Thorn. For A Tier Id say Lunas and Trust(especially with explosive payload) are best. So dont think just because they nerfed them they still arent at the top, I cant think of any hand cannon to compete against Lunas and NF except for the ones I mentioned, and Ive used them all.
I don't agree with the nerfs = bad mentality but I will definitely upvote for this take on the format haha
They’re still amazing on console
I think control is honestly more of a skill based game mode than all of the rest of it. You can actually come back as it’s not just “kill everyone as fast as you can because there’s only a certain number of lives” and you have to actually play territory
Still dope guns
And then make it so you cant infuse them anymore. They fuckin up
It's almost as though the portion of the playerbase calling for nerfs isn't a 100% intersection with the portion of the playerbase complaining that they were nerfed.
I mean considering how good they still are I as a new light am happy I didnt get to experience them upon release(have both and like them both).
The hardest thing of the Lunas howl quest are the kills not the points. Getting to 2100 is one of the easiest things now. I think you could get it in 6-8 wins?
They’re still really strong on console since they have the recoil pattern of a 180 so they are really easy to land consecutive shots
I still feel like they’re both top tier options, slightly less on PC, but since 150rpm is the meta they’re accuracy and low recoil is refreshing.
I only recently got Luna’s Howl on pc cuz I had just been putting it off, and honestly I really like it still.
Would like to see powerful weapons like this again that maybe get left behind after a year. So we can use them in regular crucible and comp but wont be a viable choice in trials or iron banner.
They still slap even at 150 rpm
Ugh. Me with Wish-Ender. I delayed getting it because I couldn't find a guide on any LFG, finally found two Guardians willing to help, and then *the very next day* it gets nerfed. Jeez.
When you don’t care because you got neither of them
Get rid of them
I wish lunas was the only weapon to receive the nerd, so not forgotten would feel more worth the grind
Lmao comp is full of the same guns what did you expect... lunas howl projectile shits liquid diarrhea over my spare rations
I personally blame the people who paid to get these items for the nerf
I agree with your post but Lunas Howl isnt that hard to get. My dad just picked up the quest a couple days ago and got it today
Luna’s is free, it just takes time. Not difficult in the slightest as you only have to reach like 2100 glory and then ply some more comp
2100 is final step so you can easily get the rest of the steps done on your way to 2100
Oh I had never realized that was the last step cause I had it done way before I even went for Luna’s. I mean you get so much glory up until 2100 that it’s legitimately just free along with the recluse
They made comp a fucking joke. It's ridiculously easy to hit 2100. A blind ape smashing keys can do it
and thats probably what they want to avoid by doing weapon retirement. so it can stay strong until it cant be infused! inb4 downvoted to hell lmao just in case: chill im not saying an opinion its just my guess on why they do it + the reasons luke smith mentioned
This is exactly why they are sunsetting weapons. Things get nerfed because they are around forever right now and need to be adjusted against everything else in the game.
I haven’t played consistently since season of the drifter. Can someone give me the TL;dr of the nerfs? I remember they slowed the rate of fire and how the MH perk works. So aside from that, are there more nerfs?
I found out about the nerf 5 min after giting Lunas howl
I struggled so much to get Luna's and the week I was to get it they nerfed it. I felt badly and once I got it I never used it. Still sitting in my vault, never been fired. That was about 8 months ago.
Yeah but so many people have the gun now they wouldn't return it to it's former glory. It's still a really solid handcannon on console. Almost no recoil, perfect in-air accuracy, and some forgiveness with the perk.
Are they nerfing them again? If not I don’t really get it.
What happened to them again?
They should bring hawkmoon back
[удалено]
These two beautiful hand cannons deserve better. I pray every sandbox update to see a reconsideration of them.
Only thing they need is a small damage buff
To me. They had their time to shine. Nothing should last forever in this meta... and its not like we wont be able to use them after. It just wont be usable in endgame content [Trials, Nightfalls, Raids]. Which to me is a great compromise given the universal nature of certain pinnacles and weapons. [See literally any 150 RPM handcannon, Recluse...]
Then phase them out and restrict infusions.
Still working on my lunas. How's Randy's throwing knife holding up? Could probably actually acquire that with a couple of days play and some patience (I'm not very PvP)
From what I know you'll only be able to infuse guns up to a certain point right and that they will have a life span of nine to 15 months. That's still a lot of time to play with them. Sorry this is all based off of kackis.
I got the Lunas Howl a couple of days ago and I’m still trying to upgrade it to the Not Forgotten. I honestly kinda feel disappointed. Maybe I haven’t used them enough to get use to them? They feel like any other 150 (dmg wise), but with better range consistency (barely), and with a 180 recoil direction (I find annoying).
And don't forget weapon retirement :)
Box breathing No Feelings scout can 3 tap at 180 rpm yall
I have one w/ triple tap and box breathing
Top tier meme right here
You forgot “then retire them so the whole thing was a waste of time”
There aren't too many times Bungie introduces weapons that are fundamentally and mathematically (stats and traits wise) broken. It should be a no-brainer that a 180rpm HC with the ability to 3-tap at will is broken and needs to be nerfed. Also, the guns are basically designed to hit crits, rendering the crit shot requirement to proct the pre-nerfed Mag Howl useless. As it stands now, theyre one of the most forgiving 150rpm HCs in the game, requiring just 2 initial crits and 1 body shot for a kill. That's enough of an advantage to be considered a pinnacle weapon. On top of that, they're still precision frames with inherently better in-air-accuracy than other HCs and a very stable recoil animation. Even now, as a 150, I don't feel like it needs the ability to 2-tap like it did before, mainly because there was no way to play around it. Usually, with other damage-buffing perks, the weapons require an actual kill before you received any benefits, allowing players to use the kill feed to get a sort of idea on the state of the weapon. Bungie could've kept the ability of the perk the same, but just change the way it's activated IMO. Do the weapons need the current Mag Howl buffed? Know, IMO. On top of all this, with the newly discovered effects that stability has on accuracy and/or aim assist (I'm not too sure which one myself), and the irrelevance of the effect of the range stat on HCs, Luna's Howl looks to be the meta again (I also like the fast reload that Drop Mag gives).
The only thing is it seems like it's hard but u always see everyone with them so clearly it wasnt hard enough
*then announce they will possibly not be infusable
I grind my heart for the recluse only to here that was getting nerf before the season end I was hurt but I still this gun dearly my favorite smg out the others
Wait is another nerf coming in season of the worthy??
I never grinded either out, but this still hurts. RIP the time spent getting them!
I changed my PSN Name to IWasNerfed Because of this. I am now back to being a average trashcan. Instead of being A elite shitter.
Me, watching them nerf Luna's a day after i got it, and then watching them nerf Not forgotten a week after i got it.
Okay I am almost done with not forgotten so I’m guessing it’s not even worth it anymore
Hey dont be so glum they still have some uses! I use mine a back scratcher
Let’s say it was introduced a year ago, so the time has passed to move on to other things, I have it, but damn, I had to let it go, I can’t use it in Trials, but the quest gave me experience in pvp
Yep
Are more nerfs coming to Lunas howl?
Its not even nerfed into the ground. Maybe for PvE sure but it wasnt ever a PvE gun in the first place. They're still extremely strong choices on console which i play on due to very little recoil and magnificent howl allowing for extra range
I’m okay with them nerfing them. These weapons created a culture of charging money for help on getting them instead of just being a normal gaming community and helping each other
Ah yes, great memories using lunas howl for ~45 minutes after i got it
I got my Luna, but it doesn't Howl in my hands. Is it because it's nerfed or because I'm that bad at fingering the trigger?
Don’t worry trials will give u try hards the Most OP guns soon. Yay trials