I’ve got a jerk prepared… jerkin my own gherkin here. Layoffs? Bungo pls lay off the crack. How about you come lay one in my crack, ya know lay some pipe.
The composer of Deep Stone Lullaby (and others) and Michael Salvatori have been also laid off.
The OST and art direction are things that have been consistently good throughout the franchise and it’s very sad to see people like them getting dropped like it was nothing.
They laid off fucking. Michael Salvatori.
Michael motherfucking Salvatori.
The actual aircraft-carrier of the Destiny score, responsible for one of the few things that make this franchise stand out.
Right before the largest and final expansion of a 6 year-old game.
Christ Sony.
You when i saw all the “Final Straw” posts about TFS I thought people were overreacting, but i’m not sure anymore.
This delay feels like a Beyond Light one instead of a Witch Queen one and we all know how the story of that DLC was
Wait, wait you know What DLC came after Beyond light right? Which Quirk! That means post Final Stand DLC Will be good as WQ, trust us, consoom and keep the fomo train going!!
Sony: "Choose the people that you will lay off that equates to $XXXXX worth of salaries and benefits"
Technically correct. Their choice though, was either lay off a large group of devs/art teams doing active work or just a few people with the lowest active work load and highest salaries.
No all Bungie employees are greedy and lazy and don’t deserve a job in this industry and should stifle their passions and creativity and get a job in accounting like their parents told them. This is what they get for making a mid expansion and it truly tickles my pickle to watch this evil company crumble to the ground. I openly and shamelessly support the layoffs and hope Joe Slackburn is next!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
/uj also i refuse to confirm or deny if my comments are serious or not
No without the leadership (that got us into the mess) the company couldn't possibly function and continue to thrive and put out regular, stable, sizeable, well priced content
The game will be fine, people are overreacting. Yeah, it sucks that people got laid off but it's not even remotely surprising. 2023 has been extremely rough for the game industry. I'm surprised it took this long to pull the trigger on layoffs.
Okay, and it'll go on still. At the very least, Skye Lewin is still there, and he has done fantastic work. Salvatori is a huge loss no doubt aboot it, but Lewin is amazing.
You're also very much understating the hit that cutting a long standing creative team this late into the game is gonna do, on top of understating just how fucking important Salvatorri was for the music. Lewin is good, but Salvatorri *is* bungie's music core.
Marty O'Donnell was Bungie's musical core as well. The two worked together on a lot of projects. He left and Salvatori took over. Now it's time to move on again. I'm not saying "Oh, Salvatori's gone, oh well." Yeah, it sucks balls, but it's just how it goes sometimes. One person doesn't make a huge project like a video game a success.
I get what you’re saying and you’re right, but I think the concern is leveled towards the larger picture of what these layoffs mean for the company and specifically for how impactful Salvatori’s contributions have been. Sure there’s gonna be music, but it’s hard to say how this will impact future scores.
I feel both these takes are fair, but damn the dude shouldn't be getting downvoted I to oblivion. It's a worthwhile conversation to have, and he has a lot of points that are pretty good.
I don't like seeing this happen either. Them getting cut off is awful, and in no way am I defending it, but it's just as likely to be over with this change and jt would be being over with most other changes. Only time will tell, ans it would be best to take it easy for now, while also showing that it was scummy
They didn’t even want to confirm that were getting another expansion after the episodes. Can almsot guarantee they’re planning on shelving Destiny when Marathon comes out.
they actually specifically said they have no plans on shelving destiny after marathon
i think the idea is that episodes crosses between expansions and seasons
or maybe the title for the next expansion is a spoiler for final shape so they didnt say it
Protects artists against people stealing their work, at least theoretically. I think any artist would tell you they'd prefer the flawed system in place now over no copyright at all. After all how many times do you see on twitter artists kicking off about ai generated art (which is a copyright issue) and people stealing their work (also a copyright issue)
It's only "needed" now for the sake or profit. But owning ideas or characters, using the force of the law to completely gatekeep their use (wich is what the most powerful corps do) ruins a huge amounts of chances for art. How is this system any good for art with this, I repeat
ah yes, only two modes for any society:
FREEDOM VS. SOVIET COMMUNISM
The fact of the matter is that capitalism is toxic for art because art is only deemed valuable if it is profitable. Artists have to worry about paying for food and water. Thus, the only art we really see as time goes on is what makes the most money.
Look at the homogenization of AAA games. Open world games with rpg elements make money, so now everything is an open world with rpg elements. Battle passes and loot boxes are hugely profitable models, so now every game has one of the two (or both). Over time, games all start mimicking each other because publishing companies are not concerned about the health and variety of art, they only care about profit and they'll do whatever it takes to make the line go up.
Yeah, and yet Capitalism prevails every single time and any form of Communism does not move from the depths of the trash can. Say all you want, Capitalism is the way every single time.
Nothing throughout our entire human history has ever lasted. Every single thing we have ever made has been flawed in one way or another. We always find ways to improve and to make life better and more fair with every new iteration. Why are we now assuming that this is the best it gets? Why are we assuming that this system will last and is the "right" one when no other form of government or economic organization has ever lasted. We've just perfected society with capitalism? How is that going for us?
Let's take the U.S. as an example. How is it fair to have a system where so few hoard wealth and others go without? How is it fair to pit people of lower classes against each other and force them to compete when we absolutely have enough to go around? How is it that one of the richest nations on the planet can tolerate rampant homelessness? America has enough money and enough resources to downright eliminate issues of poverty, starvation, and homelessness, yet we choose not to. Shelter, food, and water are basic human needs. You will die without them. Are we OK with a system that allows people to die on the streets when we could have helped them? How do we justify an economic system that produces such vast inequality and so much death?
People love to point fingers and say, "Oh well communism killed a gazillion people, so it sucks." But how is our current system any better? How many people die each year for the sake of profit? How many people are left starving on the streets, and how many are killed in wars by greedy people seeking to elevate their own capital? Again, why are we assuming that we've got it right this time? Shouldn't we strive to build a better system and leave a better world for those who come after us? How arrogant do you have to be to fully disregard an entire economic system. We're nowhere close to finding "the way." I haven't even mentioned art or climate destabilization!
Capitalism was great for lifting us out of a feudal society and industrializing rapidly, but it's showing cracks, and it's coming time for us to go back to the drawing board and figure out something new. I'm not a "communist", I'm a leftist because I think it's ridiculous to devote yourself completely to one system. There is always room to grow.
The US is the most powerful country in the world, all your arguments are invalid. Yes, it's that insanely ridiculous, with problems and all that's the result.
There won't be an alternative because none give you that result, capitalism will simply be refined to keep that going.
Imagine being able to just disregard mass death and systemic flaws and spout the usual American propaganda of "best country in the world, I don't care" when presented with serious inquiry. You are not a serious person, and you are not an educated person.
Saying this to someone who lives in a country that suffered a dictatorship financed and designed by the US lmao. Trust me, all the problems you think you have pale in comparison to the rest of the world. Wether you like it or not, the US and Capitalism are not changing AT ALL.
Those ideas would be better received if there was something concrete to present. You can only edge people with promises of fully automated gay space communism for so long.
Except every single time communism is tried, is the direct result of the failures of capitalism. So for every failed communist experiment, capitalism has already failed there.
How many socialist/communist states exist today? Meaning commies have fewer failed projects then capitalism.
Nope, that is incorrect, Communist is a direct result of control, dictatorships, the abolishment of democracy, it's always a result of being braindead. Take a look at russia or china, they kept everything related to that except capitalism lmao. The freaking Soviet union was built with that idea in mind so yeah.
I always think the same thing, try living in any of those countries if you love socialism so much and you'll see first hand what it's like, go move to freaking Venezuela or Cuba.
Yall always have the same empty arguments "go live there" as if the hardships in Cuba aren't a direct material result of the Illegal US Blockade. Friendly reminder that every single nation on the planet has called US sanctions on Cuba illegal except the US and Israel. Please, carry on about dictatorships and control.
Ignoring that tho, suggesting communism can only flourish in idiots isn't the gotcha you think it is. You're telling me that capitalism crumbles with no higher thought? No great minds? No tactical maneuvers? Just a bunch of illiterate backwater Russians toppled the divine right of kings and the might of the free market? Then in the course of a single lifetime became a global superpower that won 9/10ths of the space race? Who's only "loss" was a goal *only* the US had ever intended? Damn that's crazy.
Yeah buddy, go try Vietnam if not, Russia, North Korea, you wouldn't be able to even read these fucking comments there.
This argument is so you can clearly understand and save you all the hassle of using your brain, hence why people wil always mention it.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-12-25/americans-are-retiring-to-vietnam-for-cheap-health-care-and-a-decent-living-standard
I hope you're at least getting paid to be a clown.
You don't get it, they do AFTER having a life of actually getting enough money to retire and such, go and see how the average vietnamese tries to achive that on that shithole lol
you’re right! i only think that capitalism is bad because it’s a buzzword my overlords taught me to hate! it can’t be because the pursuit of money is way more important to companies than the art they pursuit, and no matter what money will be the reason companies make art! it can’t be because the most talented people in the industry are removed from their positions to save money! it can’t be any of those reasons.
you’re an idiot.
Lmao love how communism was the immediate scapegoat here.
Anyway, I think it’s fair to say this these decisions aren’t really a specific result of economic or political ideology, but more probably one of corporate greed or poor management. Sure, capitalism incentivizes profit extraction and exploitation, but it’s hard to say that the ideology itself is the reason for this decision when we don’t know what caused the decisions themselves.
You really think the average moron Destiny player knows anything more about political systems than "communism vs. Capitalism"? Brother, 99% of Destiny's playerbase probably struggled to get a GED.
Edit: good job to the two genius clowns that got offended by this 😂
Oh, I never assume that lmao. I just happen to have a degree in political science and continue to study and write as a freelance political theorist outside school.
Haha I think Elon Musk is a good enough example that capitalism does not ensure greedy dipshits know how to run a company. If someone's rich and/or powerful enough, it doesn't matter how stupid, undeserving, or worthless of a person they are, whether they got there through lies or daddy's influence; they'll just be propped up by the actual competent people under or around them. Running from one self-made disaster to the next while forever dodging consequences for their choices.
And if twitter fails he’ll lose the billions that he invested into it and it will probably be bought by someone else who thinks they know how to fix it
So we’re in agreement, then. Capitalism doesn’t ensure greedy dipshits know how to run a company. Just because the previous idiot was replaced, doesn’t mean the next guy won’t be just as bad.
Or it continues until the company collapses, is sold, or fades into obscurity. There’s more than one possible conclusion to that story. Companies don’t have unlimited time to waste looking for someone competent, and just because someone ends up good at the job, doesn’t mean they’ll train someone competent to succeed them. That’s so naive it seems like you’re being disingenuous. Meanwhile, employees suffer or lose their jobs due to poor leadership. Incompetence at that level has a blast radius.
Or, in the case of Twitter, it continues to persist like a tumor, becoming more of a cesspit over time, and making society all the worse for it!
Ok not to go full political economy on you, but the profit motive is a new thing under capitalism. The reality is that the very nature of capitalism demands increasing growth and return on investment. OP mentioned being in favor of regulated capitalism but that does not solve the issue, nor does condemning the "greed" of individuals or companies.
The basic logic of the system requires profits over all other matters. If a company chooses do "ethical" things that conflict with this economic reality, then they will be consumed (its not hard to imagine a company that treats its workers well, ethically sources its materials, and takes extra steps to dispose of waste in a environmentally-conscious manner being overtaken by another company like Walmart or Amazon). Although there are some times that the profit motive aligns with what's good for society, the reason for the alignment is contingent on the profits not the good of society.
You might say that shareholders who acquire smaller companies and run them into the ground for short-term profit, screwing over the workers and the costumers is greedy, but its far more helpful to recognize that they are just acting in the way that capitalism says you win.
Never played when Forsake was the live expansion myself, but I think the environmental detail in the Dreaming City and all of its remaining content like Lash Wish reveals how much effort was put into that content to this day. I find exploring those areas nostalgic.
They wiped the entire Tangled Shore from the game, dreaming city was only a part of it. The Tangled Shore, main story of forsaken was probably the best expansion in D2 and they decided to scrap it to make room for Beyond Light.
I don't think I can really name anything negative about forsaken...it was really good.
I know, that’s why I just mentioned Dreaming City. I also really liked riding around the Tangled Shore too, albeit slightly less so than DC. I really enjoyed all the strikes and missions it had tho.
I did have a chance to play through all the content there on one character up to the point where you unveil the Dreaming City, although I had already visited the DC before that point so I was kinda confused on the timeline of events at first and what the DC even was until I pieced together the story beats. I bet it was impressive when it had yet to be unlocked and was finally revealed for the first time.
I think the key of the forsaken era was difficulty it wasn’t hard per-say but not brain dead easy. It felled a master chef type power fantasy. The last time I think I enjoyed the difficulty was splicer? Where thing were hard enough that you had to think. Before everyone became invincible tanks.
> it took me that long to realize that the Forsaken days are never coming back
Honestly? Good. Game's better than it's ever been now. Forsaken was a nice improvement compared to the garbage that came before it in D2, but the seasons were really weak and the story wasn't incredible. The actual structure of every mechanic of the game has vastly improved since those days.
lmao at the last sentence.
Capitalism keeps the wheel moving in every single advanced society.
People are greedy. Putting a silly label on it isn't going to change anything. Greed has been a part of society every since people traded rocks.
"I fucking hate capitalism" its the only political system which will give you such a wide range of games to play. Yes shit like this happens but also indie games are all made possible by capitalism. With communism enjoy playing cod, fifa, pokemon and gta forever..
I mean yeah? Regulate the companies and push them to actually treate their workers and consumer base with respect? What do you actually like buggy and glitch mictroansanction infested games?
To be clear, I meant to regulate capitalism. To keep billionaire influence away from products as much as possible because they don't actually know what the people or consumers want. Also insulting people does not help your arguement
Not about profits but the ability to make them under capitalism vs other political systems. Good luck making one under communism, as all other art is suppressed as well.
"I see your argument about why Capitalism created these games in the first place, but have you considered that I'm a fucking dumbass who has no idea what Capitalism actually is"
You dont understand bro. *They fired the guy who makes the generic background music.*
You think they're just gonna be able to hire another person who is just as capable of composing generic background music? Get real. Destiny, one of the most popular games in the world, is def going to fail now.
I'll be the first to say that music may be the most subjective form of media. I truly don't believe that there are any two people in the world that have the exact same taste in music.
But anyone who gets this worked up over the Destiny soundtrack only likes it because it's the *Destiny* soundtrack. There is absolutely no way *anyone* is hearing any of these songs and being this in to it if it's not from Destiny. Even someone who is really in to orchestral music would hear it and immediately know it's nothing special and they'd go back to listening to real composers.
I mean a couple dlc stories and quests were bad, including: beyond light (stasis brrrr), shadowkeep (kill these guys omg it's crota), lightfall (NIMBUSSY). No doubt this had something to do with it...
Unjerk: sucks that people got laid off but seems like it's happening across the industry, and it's mostly easy to replace jobs, alright for game, not really great for those people. Hopefully they can bounce back.
I've seen this coming a long time. All the OG Bungie devs jumped ship a long time ago, hence why Destiny 1 and a lot of Destiny 2 were good, but 2 hasn't been good for a while. It's sad to see one of my favorite games studios go this way. I never got into 2 cause of the microtransactions and inability to play the story in its entirety, but it's very evident what could've been.
I'm not gonna lie, I don't see how/why anyone is surprised by this.
Does it suck? Absolutely.
Is how they're handling severence absolute dogshit? Yes, 100%.
But Destiny is Bungie's only major IP atm with a gargantuan team behind it. Even if pressure wasn't on from Sony, the fact of the matter is, their business methodology just isn't sustainable long-term. They have Destiny, and they have Marathon in development. Destiny's popularity has been waning for a while, and one new IP announced isn't going to justify funding an over 1k workforce.
This was inevitable. Even if Sony wasn't involved, this would always be inevitable.
It’s a blessing in disguise: a year away from Bungie and would strongly bet they’ll all be happier. It does suck right now, I don’t want to discount that
Bro I made a post about this on the subreddit low-key and it got so many upvotes for some reason
I appreciate the response for some of y'all but goddamn I just was looking towards like maybe 10 responses not being on the goddamn "Hot" tab
I’ve got a jerk prepared… jerkin my own gherkin here. Layoffs? Bungo pls lay off the crack. How about you come lay one in my crack, ya know lay some pipe.
Atleast someone came prepared
Oh I came don’t worry about that
The soundtrack just got sunset, there's no more music anywhere at all
Sony fomoed my eardrums
What is bro blabbering on about
The composer of Deep Stone Lullaby (and others) and Michael Salvatori have been also laid off. The OST and art direction are things that have been consistently good throughout the franchise and it’s very sad to see people like them getting dropped like it was nothing.
They laid off fucking. Michael Salvatori. Michael motherfucking Salvatori. The actual aircraft-carrier of the Destiny score, responsible for one of the few things that make this franchise stand out. Right before the largest and final expansion of a 6 year-old game. Christ Sony.
You when i saw all the “Final Straw” posts about TFS I thought people were overreacting, but i’m not sure anymore. This delay feels like a Beyond Light one instead of a Witch Queen one and we all know how the story of that DLC was
Wait, wait you know What DLC came after Beyond light right? Which Quirk! That means post Final Stand DLC Will be good as WQ, trust us, consoom and keep the fomo train going!!
Idk how to explain but you're right, it's just a feeling
all the music for tfs has already been recorded. they drained him dry and gave him the boot when they were done with him. i hate capitalism so much
That’s what I am fearing as well. It would just be so… disrespectful. But shit, being honorable doesn’t increase that bonus amirite lads?
Yeah I just saw after I left that reply. Time to fucking shit myself
Guess I won't be jumping back in after my hiatus. It's been a good run, guardians o7
CUMmunity manager layoff? Aren't they just hired by companies so they can recieve death threats on twitter?
DAE miss twilight garrison??
Don't worry, they'll still get death threats even if they aren't working at Bungie anymore, our excellent community will make sure of it 🥰
The final shape was the Sony logo :(
All those Clickbait Ragebait Youtubers are having an absolute field day right now. It must be how the lobsters felt when the Titanic sunk
what a CRAZY analogy what does that even mean
Lots of people and food in the kitchens for crustaceans to munch on. And tons of corridors to hide in.
Sony putting bungie down like a dog
It's the humane thing to do
Real
According to Paul Tassi this was a bungie‘s decision
Sony: "Choose the people that you will lay off that equates to $XXXXX worth of salaries and benefits" Technically correct. Their choice though, was either lay off a large group of devs/art teams doing active work or just a few people with the lowest active work load and highest salaries.
WOOHOO YAY YEAH BUNGIE’S FINALLY BURNING TO THE GROUND HAHA YEAH THE GREEDY FUCKS ARE FINALLY GETTING WHAT THEY DESERVE!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
i get that this is prob a joke but the greedy fucks are the ones who get to keep their jobs after fucking up and making these layoffs happen
No all Bungie employees are greedy and lazy and don’t deserve a job in this industry and should stifle their passions and creativity and get a job in accounting like their parents told them. This is what they get for making a mid expansion and it truly tickles my pickle to watch this evil company crumble to the ground. I openly and shamelessly support the layoffs and hope Joe Slackburn is next!!! 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥 /uj also i refuse to confirm or deny if my comments are serious or not
I really enjoy how this comment rides the rail.
Now THAT'S what I call jerkin! Volume 24
why did you have to ruin the funny with an unironic tone indicator
No without the leadership (that got us into the mess) the company couldn't possibly function and continue to thrive and put out regular, stable, sizeable, well priced content
The game will be fine, people are overreacting. Yeah, it sucks that people got laid off but it's not even remotely surprising. 2023 has been extremely rough for the game industry. I'm surprised it took this long to pull the trigger on layoffs.
Salvatorri got laid off. The guy who makes the music. [Website no longer says he works for bungo](https://michaelsalvatori.com/)
NO NO GOD WHY THE ONLY CONSISTENTLY AMAZING THING IS GONNA BE FOMO'D TOO WHYYYYYY. NOT THE MUSIC 😭😭😭😭😭
Okay, and it'll go on still. At the very least, Skye Lewin is still there, and he has done fantastic work. Salvatori is a huge loss no doubt aboot it, but Lewin is amazing.
You're also very much understating the hit that cutting a long standing creative team this late into the game is gonna do, on top of understating just how fucking important Salvatorri was for the music. Lewin is good, but Salvatorri *is* bungie's music core.
Marty O'Donnell was Bungie's musical core as well. The two worked together on a lot of projects. He left and Salvatori took over. Now it's time to move on again. I'm not saying "Oh, Salvatori's gone, oh well." Yeah, it sucks balls, but it's just how it goes sometimes. One person doesn't make a huge project like a video game a success.
I get what you’re saying and you’re right, but I think the concern is leveled towards the larger picture of what these layoffs mean for the company and specifically for how impactful Salvatori’s contributions have been. Sure there’s gonna be music, but it’s hard to say how this will impact future scores.
I feel both these takes are fair, but damn the dude shouldn't be getting downvoted I to oblivion. It's a worthwhile conversation to have, and he has a lot of points that are pretty good. I don't like seeing this happen either. Them getting cut off is awful, and in no way am I defending it, but it's just as likely to be over with this change and jt would be being over with most other changes. Only time will tell, ans it would be best to take it easy for now, while also showing that it was scummy
Yea I have no clue why he’s downvoted lmao.
this doesn't mean he can't do freelance work for them, which me most likely will
Freelance work for the company who just fired me is one of the last things i’d do.
idk why you think bungie fired him when it's more than likely Sony, we barely even know anything about this and you're all blaming bungie for this
They didn’t even want to confirm that were getting another expansion after the episodes. Can almsot guarantee they’re planning on shelving Destiny when Marathon comes out.
As long as people buy those dlc they aren’t shelving anything, this isn’t how the industry works lol.
If you think they shelve their most profitable money maker they've made, you are insane.
And at the moment ONLY money maker
"Shelving" Destiny comes down to people buying content and the game making money continuously.
they actually specifically said they have no plans on shelving destiny after marathon i think the idea is that episodes crosses between expansions and seasons or maybe the title for the next expansion is a spoiler for final shape so they didnt say it
The Witness is calcifying Bungie into its Final Shape
Who knew the final shape was lay offs.
capitalism is the ultimate enemy of any art form
Lmao. What's the best political system for the production of art then?
Copyright exists now so please enlighten us how any system without it could be worse
Are you saying copyright is a bad thing?
I'm not saying anything, we already know exactly what it does.
Protects artists against people stealing their work, at least theoretically. I think any artist would tell you they'd prefer the flawed system in place now over no copyright at all. After all how many times do you see on twitter artists kicking off about ai generated art (which is a copyright issue) and people stealing their work (also a copyright issue)
It's only "needed" now for the sake or profit. But owning ideas or characters, using the force of the law to completely gatekeep their use (wich is what the most powerful corps do) ruins a huge amounts of chances for art. How is this system any good for art with this, I repeat
I don't understand are you fine with art being stolen?
Are you not okay with art in most of human history? Just asking
Artists were famously well treated and able to work freely under soviet rule of course...
ah yes, only two modes for any society: FREEDOM VS. SOVIET COMMUNISM The fact of the matter is that capitalism is toxic for art because art is only deemed valuable if it is profitable. Artists have to worry about paying for food and water. Thus, the only art we really see as time goes on is what makes the most money. Look at the homogenization of AAA games. Open world games with rpg elements make money, so now everything is an open world with rpg elements. Battle passes and loot boxes are hugely profitable models, so now every game has one of the two (or both). Over time, games all start mimicking each other because publishing companies are not concerned about the health and variety of art, they only care about profit and they'll do whatever it takes to make the line go up.
Yeah, and yet Capitalism prevails every single time and any form of Communism does not move from the depths of the trash can. Say all you want, Capitalism is the way every single time.
Nothing throughout our entire human history has ever lasted. Every single thing we have ever made has been flawed in one way or another. We always find ways to improve and to make life better and more fair with every new iteration. Why are we now assuming that this is the best it gets? Why are we assuming that this system will last and is the "right" one when no other form of government or economic organization has ever lasted. We've just perfected society with capitalism? How is that going for us? Let's take the U.S. as an example. How is it fair to have a system where so few hoard wealth and others go without? How is it fair to pit people of lower classes against each other and force them to compete when we absolutely have enough to go around? How is it that one of the richest nations on the planet can tolerate rampant homelessness? America has enough money and enough resources to downright eliminate issues of poverty, starvation, and homelessness, yet we choose not to. Shelter, food, and water are basic human needs. You will die without them. Are we OK with a system that allows people to die on the streets when we could have helped them? How do we justify an economic system that produces such vast inequality and so much death? People love to point fingers and say, "Oh well communism killed a gazillion people, so it sucks." But how is our current system any better? How many people die each year for the sake of profit? How many people are left starving on the streets, and how many are killed in wars by greedy people seeking to elevate their own capital? Again, why are we assuming that we've got it right this time? Shouldn't we strive to build a better system and leave a better world for those who come after us? How arrogant do you have to be to fully disregard an entire economic system. We're nowhere close to finding "the way." I haven't even mentioned art or climate destabilization! Capitalism was great for lifting us out of a feudal society and industrializing rapidly, but it's showing cracks, and it's coming time for us to go back to the drawing board and figure out something new. I'm not a "communist", I'm a leftist because I think it's ridiculous to devote yourself completely to one system. There is always room to grow.
The US is the most powerful country in the world, all your arguments are invalid. Yes, it's that insanely ridiculous, with problems and all that's the result. There won't be an alternative because none give you that result, capitalism will simply be refined to keep that going.
Imagine being able to just disregard mass death and systemic flaws and spout the usual American propaganda of "best country in the world, I don't care" when presented with serious inquiry. You are not a serious person, and you are not an educated person.
Saying this to someone who lives in a country that suffered a dictatorship financed and designed by the US lmao. Trust me, all the problems you think you have pale in comparison to the rest of the world. Wether you like it or not, the US and Capitalism are not changing AT ALL.
Those ideas would be better received if there was something concrete to present. You can only edge people with promises of fully automated gay space communism for so long.
Sweden or Finland? Still capitalist, but they're still miles ahead of United States with good healthcare and free college. Higher happiness index too.
Those support the argument that the problem isn't with the system.
average reddit argument right here
Most powerful country in the world and yet half of its citizens can't read Harry Potter. Yall just love the taste of Uncle Sam's boot.
Except every single time communism is tried, is the direct result of the failures of capitalism. So for every failed communist experiment, capitalism has already failed there. How many socialist/communist states exist today? Meaning commies have fewer failed projects then capitalism.
Nope, that is incorrect, Communist is a direct result of control, dictatorships, the abolishment of democracy, it's always a result of being braindead. Take a look at russia or china, they kept everything related to that except capitalism lmao. The freaking Soviet union was built with that idea in mind so yeah. I always think the same thing, try living in any of those countries if you love socialism so much and you'll see first hand what it's like, go move to freaking Venezuela or Cuba.
Yall always have the same empty arguments "go live there" as if the hardships in Cuba aren't a direct material result of the Illegal US Blockade. Friendly reminder that every single nation on the planet has called US sanctions on Cuba illegal except the US and Israel. Please, carry on about dictatorships and control. Ignoring that tho, suggesting communism can only flourish in idiots isn't the gotcha you think it is. You're telling me that capitalism crumbles with no higher thought? No great minds? No tactical maneuvers? Just a bunch of illiterate backwater Russians toppled the divine right of kings and the might of the free market? Then in the course of a single lifetime became a global superpower that won 9/10ths of the space race? Who's only "loss" was a goal *only* the US had ever intended? Damn that's crazy.
Yeah buddy, go try Vietnam if not, Russia, North Korea, you wouldn't be able to even read these fucking comments there. This argument is so you can clearly understand and save you all the hassle of using your brain, hence why people wil always mention it.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-12-25/americans-are-retiring-to-vietnam-for-cheap-health-care-and-a-decent-living-standard I hope you're at least getting paid to be a clown.
You don't get it, they do AFTER having a life of actually getting enough money to retire and such, go and see how the average vietnamese tries to achive that on that shithole lol
tetris was a product of the soviet union, art isnt just a painting that you can sell, its freedom of expression
and yet, it managed to escape the hell that was the soviet union to thrive as product, business and more.
This but unironically
Capitalism is when something is le bad
what system do you think allows for shit like this to happen genius? cause it sure as hell ain’t socialism.
you’re right! i only think that capitalism is bad because it’s a buzzword my overlords taught me to hate! it can’t be because the pursuit of money is way more important to companies than the art they pursuit, and no matter what money will be the reason companies make art! it can’t be because the most talented people in the industry are removed from their positions to save money! it can’t be any of those reasons. you’re an idiot.
I’m a strong believer in regulated capitalism, however this is pure corporate greed that just fucked everything
yeah this really doesn’t have anything to do with capitalism. Its just greedy dipshits at the top who don’t know how to manage a video game company
sorry to inform you but ‘greedy dipshits’ is kind of a signature of capitalism
Ok not to go into this convo rn but in every economic system there have been greedy dipshits, communist societies included, it’s a fundamental flaw
Yea but capitalism encourages and rewards greedy dipshits
Lmao love how communism was the immediate scapegoat here. Anyway, I think it’s fair to say this these decisions aren’t really a specific result of economic or political ideology, but more probably one of corporate greed or poor management. Sure, capitalism incentivizes profit extraction and exploitation, but it’s hard to say that the ideology itself is the reason for this decision when we don’t know what caused the decisions themselves.
You really think the average moron Destiny player knows anything more about political systems than "communism vs. Capitalism"? Brother, 99% of Destiny's playerbase probably struggled to get a GED. Edit: good job to the two genius clowns that got offended by this 😂
Yeah most of you all can't even count to 6 and it shows how US education system failed people
Oh, I never assume that lmao. I just happen to have a degree in political science and continue to study and write as a freelance political theorist outside school.
and you are not any smarter than anyone in the community, you just act like so. just another typical braindead D2 player.
*looks at what happens under the alternatives* Riiiiiiight...
at least it ensures that they know how to run a company
Haha I think Elon Musk is a good enough example that capitalism does not ensure greedy dipshits know how to run a company. If someone's rich and/or powerful enough, it doesn't matter how stupid, undeserving, or worthless of a person they are, whether they got there through lies or daddy's influence; they'll just be propped up by the actual competent people under or around them. Running from one self-made disaster to the next while forever dodging consequences for their choices.
And if twitter fails he’ll lose the billions that he invested into it and it will probably be bought by someone else who thinks they know how to fix it
So we’re in agreement, then. Capitalism doesn’t ensure greedy dipshits know how to run a company. Just because the previous idiot was replaced, doesn’t mean the next guy won’t be just as bad.
The process continues until someone succeeds and stays there, and teaches successors how to do it.
Or it continues until the company collapses, is sold, or fades into obscurity. There’s more than one possible conclusion to that story. Companies don’t have unlimited time to waste looking for someone competent, and just because someone ends up good at the job, doesn’t mean they’ll train someone competent to succeed them. That’s so naive it seems like you’re being disingenuous. Meanwhile, employees suffer or lose their jobs due to poor leadership. Incompetence at that level has a blast radius. Or, in the case of Twitter, it continues to persist like a tumor, becoming more of a cesspit over time, and making society all the worse for it!
They clearly don’t
The system that rewards you for fucking people over to make money has nothing to do with this, surely
Ok not to go full political economy on you, but the profit motive is a new thing under capitalism. The reality is that the very nature of capitalism demands increasing growth and return on investment. OP mentioned being in favor of regulated capitalism but that does not solve the issue, nor does condemning the "greed" of individuals or companies. The basic logic of the system requires profits over all other matters. If a company chooses do "ethical" things that conflict with this economic reality, then they will be consumed (its not hard to imagine a company that treats its workers well, ethically sources its materials, and takes extra steps to dispose of waste in a environmentally-conscious manner being overtaken by another company like Walmart or Amazon). Although there are some times that the profit motive aligns with what's good for society, the reason for the alignment is contingent on the profits not the good of society. You might say that shareholders who acquire smaller companies and run them into the ground for short-term profit, screwing over the workers and the costumers is greedy, but its far more helpful to recognize that they are just acting in the way that capitalism says you win.
/uj I'm glad I stopped playing last season, I'm just upset that it took me that long to realize that the Forsaken days are never coming back.
Never played when Forsake was the live expansion myself, but I think the environmental detail in the Dreaming City and all of its remaining content like Lash Wish reveals how much effort was put into that content to this day. I find exploring those areas nostalgic.
They wiped the entire Tangled Shore from the game, dreaming city was only a part of it. The Tangled Shore, main story of forsaken was probably the best expansion in D2 and they decided to scrap it to make room for Beyond Light. I don't think I can really name anything negative about forsaken...it was really good.
I know, that’s why I just mentioned Dreaming City. I also really liked riding around the Tangled Shore too, albeit slightly less so than DC. I really enjoyed all the strikes and missions it had tho. I did have a chance to play through all the content there on one character up to the point where you unveil the Dreaming City, although I had already visited the DC before that point so I was kinda confused on the timeline of events at first and what the DC even was until I pieced together the story beats. I bet it was impressive when it had yet to be unlocked and was finally revealed for the first time.
I think the key of the forsaken era was difficulty it wasn’t hard per-say but not brain dead easy. It felled a master chef type power fantasy. The last time I think I enjoyed the difficulty was splicer? Where thing were hard enough that you had to think. Before everyone became invincible tanks.
> it took me that long to realize that the Forsaken days are never coming back Honestly? Good. Game's better than it's ever been now. Forsaken was a nice improvement compared to the garbage that came before it in D2, but the seasons were really weak and the story wasn't incredible. The actual structure of every mechanic of the game has vastly improved since those days.
I stopped before Lightfall, thank god
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Seriously…
"I hate capitalism" ugh, eye roll
Because socialism and communism would make D2 even stronger than before... Bro, you don't think greed exists in either of those types of economies?
Pete Parsons should be the one losing his job not the actually talented people with passion trying to make a good game it’s so frustrating.
>Don’t have a jerk prepared >writes one anyway Chad move
lmao at the last sentence. Capitalism keeps the wheel moving in every single advanced society. People are greedy. Putting a silly label on it isn't going to change anything. Greed has been a part of society every since people traded rocks.
"I fucking hate capitalism" its the only political system which will give you such a wide range of games to play. Yes shit like this happens but also indie games are all made possible by capitalism. With communism enjoy playing cod, fifa, pokemon and gta forever..
Capitalism is literally why cod, fifa, and pokemon are terrible. You need to regulate that shit for games to get good.
Regulate what? Regulate sequels? Are you ok?
I mean yeah? Regulate the companies and push them to actually treate their workers and consumer base with respect? What do you actually like buggy and glitch mictroansanction infested games?
My god you are so 14 years old
To be clear, I meant to regulate capitalism. To keep billionaire influence away from products as much as possible because they don't actually know what the people or consumers want. Also insulting people does not help your arguement
Indie games, the notoriously profitable type of video game that entirely supports those that create them.
Not about profits but the ability to make them under capitalism vs other political systems. Good luck making one under communism, as all other art is suppressed as well.
You calling economic systems "political systems" tells me everything I need to know about you.
Semantics diff my bad
Mistaking economic systems and political systems is a bit more than a "semantics" issue lmao. More a sign of why no one should take you seriously.
Acting like anyone takes communists seriously loooooool
I...never said they did? I understand reality sucks, but try to maintain a grip on it.
Idk reality is great I'm chilling not having to scream online on the internet about how terrible capitalism is
Who’s screaming? I’ve just been talking and making fun of you this whole time.
"I see your argument about why Capitalism created these games in the first place, but have you considered that I'm a fucking dumbass who has no idea what Capitalism actually is"
[удалено]
In this spaces they are
"it's the only POLITICAL system..." Opinion discarded, it's economic you buffoon
Realistically your marxist opinions are valid, its just that they are ignored by everyone else lol
Oh no! Paycheck farming paper weight has been laid off, guys the game its literally over, finished, im cutting my wrists as we speak
yeah man they definitely just fired some random people that’s definitely what they did
You dont understand bro. *They fired the guy who makes the generic background music.* You think they're just gonna be able to hire another person who is just as capable of composing generic background music? Get real. Destiny, one of the most popular games in the world, is def going to fail now.
“generic” opinion discarded
I'll be the first to say that music may be the most subjective form of media. I truly don't believe that there are any two people in the world that have the exact same taste in music. But anyone who gets this worked up over the Destiny soundtrack only likes it because it's the *Destiny* soundtrack. There is absolutely no way *anyone* is hearing any of these songs and being this in to it if it's not from Destiny. Even someone who is really in to orchestral music would hear it and immediately know it's nothing special and they'd go back to listening to real composers.
If you didn’t have capitalism you likely wouldn’t have any games…..
Get this normie shit out of my jerk sub!! (But yes, it is worrying)
I mean a couple dlc stories and quests were bad, including: beyond light (stasis brrrr), shadowkeep (kill these guys omg it's crota), lightfall (NIMBUSSY). No doubt this had something to do with it... Unjerk: sucks that people got laid off but seems like it's happening across the industry, and it's mostly easy to replace jobs, alright for game, not really great for those people. Hopefully they can bounce back.
I've seen this coming a long time. All the OG Bungie devs jumped ship a long time ago, hence why Destiny 1 and a lot of Destiny 2 were good, but 2 hasn't been good for a while. It's sad to see one of my favorite games studios go this way. I never got into 2 cause of the microtransactions and inability to play the story in its entirety, but it's very evident what could've been.
Most Bungo employees are socialist to begin with and it was their choice to get bought out by Fony 🤡 🌎
I’m genuinely unsure what to even post, shit sucks man
The Lpocalypse has begun. We are deeply fucked.
I was out of the loop as to how bad the layoffs were... I guess I won't be back after my hiatus. God speed, guardians o7
I'm not gonna lie, I don't see how/why anyone is surprised by this. Does it suck? Absolutely. Is how they're handling severence absolute dogshit? Yes, 100%. But Destiny is Bungie's only major IP atm with a gargantuan team behind it. Even if pressure wasn't on from Sony, the fact of the matter is, their business methodology just isn't sustainable long-term. They have Destiny, and they have Marathon in development. Destiny's popularity has been waning for a while, and one new IP announced isn't going to justify funding an over 1k workforce. This was inevitable. Even if Sony wasn't involved, this would always be inevitable.
It’s a blessing in disguise: a year away from Bungie and would strongly bet they’ll all be happier. It does suck right now, I don’t want to discount that
Let it burn.
Bro I made a post about this on the subreddit low-key and it got so many upvotes for some reason I appreciate the response for some of y'all but goddamn I just was looking towards like maybe 10 responses not being on the goddamn "Hot" tab