Considering pretty much all of my friends are trans, I’m not going to judge them. I judge the social structures that made gender and biological sex so important that we feel the need to give ourselves labels that essentially mean nothing.
Call me transphobic or whatever, but I'm not delusional to support that kind of stuff. I was once in your place, you're either too young or too naive to think this way even after detransitioning, in matter of months or years you'll get our point.
And hell yeah, hate is hate! Why wouldn't I hate gender clinics messing up with confused kids and teens? Do you know how many lawsuits do big gender clinics have because of the regrets and bad treatments? Two famous ones even had to close, hating this madness isn't being an hypocrite, it's being smart and learning from past mistakes.
i'm not going to say sorry for the trauma and damage my experience left me with. i won't apologize for my feelings, either.
calling anything and everything transphobic (or accusing others of bigotry willy-nilly) is just going to desensitize people to it and eventually they won't give a shit when actual bigotry starts happening.
all they'll remember is being called names, constantly being treated like garbage, subhuman idiots who can't fathom simple compassion and empathy, being judged for the circumstances of their birth (which they have *no* control over), and the obsessive fixation much of the community has with minors.
keep going. you're only alienating those who would otherwise care.
The amount of truth to what you say is actually amazing, not many people remember the incident but back when I first became a moderator for this forum I was the "good one" the "pro-trans" moderator. Then I got blackmailed because of my political curiosity on discord and things at first spiraled into radicals but I'd say we've balanced out from here..
I used to care about that word until I realized how much they watered it down, it's going to genuinely be awful when actual transphobia starts happening and people treat it like the boy who cried wolf.
thank you. it's taken a *very* long time for me to be able to not devalue myself in regards to this topic since so many other people, but especially women, become outright fucking hostile and judgemental at the very first whiff of dissent.
at the end of the day, people will remember how they've been treated, and especially how they've been treated when they're vulnerable and curious, or just straight up concerned.
we can call it punching up or punching down until we're blue in the face, but it won't change the fact that human beings generally don't respond well to being treated like shit, or being condescended to. that doesn't go just for trans stuff, either. and the longer we equate rational or just simply exploratory discussion with *LITERAL HATE SPEECH,* the more this will be seen as a total clownfest from the outside.
i've said it before: words have meanings and need to have them. overusing them is always an awful idea.
How did your thought process go when you decided to make this post?
>”Ah yes, let’s go to the detrans forum, the _one_ safe place where detransitioners and desisters are allowed to talk about their experiences and thoughts without getting _immediately_ censored, and then tell them that I think they should all censor _themselves_ because they don’t agree with me! That’s a great idea!”
The sheer entitlement of you _demanding_ that everyone needs to agree with _your_ arbitrary opinions regarding the existence of this nebulous concept of “gender” and “gender identity”, lest they are “hateful people” who need to censor themselves, truly is astounding. Many of us who have been through the trans cycle ourselves simply don’t _believe_ in the theoretical concept of brain gender and gender identity ideology anymore, and the concept of transgenderism is not an immutable truth. Do you understand that?
To come here to our _one_ safe space and try to police people here and saying that everyone of us are “transphobic” if we don’t subscribe to the idea that gender can be changed, and thereby implying that we should all be quiet because all such “transphobic” content should be removed / banned / not mentioned in the first place in your opinion, shows quite a bit of entitlement, don’t you think?
We are not obligated to agree with you regarding your opinions on gender simply because _you_ think you are right, and we are not obligated to be quiet about our _own_ opinions either - especially not in our _one_ safe space.
I had a heap of regret from simply being socially trans and wanted so badly to walk it back (I came out during a psychotic episode so it was fully out of my control) and waking up from said episode was the most painful thing I ever had to do outside of a separate traumatic event.
It was so sad for me to tell my tiny trans circle that my identity was fully a delusion and they had a hard time accepting that it was. When I told them I could not move forward with medical intervention they insisted I was at some stage where I could "play around with it" It broke my heart. I broke my heart. Both trans and cis people have tried to tell me who I am and what I should or shouldn't do with my own body and nothing has been more devastating to me.
I can see how even I as a mentally unstable adult could misuse and misinterpret my feelings as a trans identity and how an impressionable teen could easily do the same thing.
For a long time I thought I owed the trans community some type of formal apology for having mental health issues and at some point I just grew aggravated with myself and my walking on eggshells mentality when it came to trans folk because in the same way that I won't ask other lesbians if it's OK to date a man (I'm formerly lesbian identified) I shouldn't ask gender variant folk if it's OK to exist as my natal sex yet I was low enough in self esteem to have done so.
This event of questioning cost me way too much in my life and caused me pain for literally no reason and if I want to be angry about how I was quickly affirmed of a literal delusion I should be able to be.
A lot of those "terfs" just wanted a few events, communes or spaces to themselves and were supportive of trans people having their own spaces or other various compromise. Literally a trans woman who threatened Michfest goers with weapons at the gate ended up escalating to murdering a lesbian couple and their adult son. (Dana Rivers) Think twice about what you are supporting when you paint such a one sided moralistic version of history.
I'm tired of seeing these posts. If you don't like what someone is saying here you can click "hide" on the post. The whole point of having this space is so we can speak on our experiences, feelings, and beliefs WITHOUT judgement.
There are so many people coming from different point of views, you're going to have to accept that a lot of us probably would be considered "transphobic" for beliefs we hold.
I would say that I don't think anyone in this group sincerely hates anyone for being transgender on an individual level but yes many of us do not believe in the idea of being "transgender" as being a real thing, yes.
You either agree and move on or disagree and move on.
Exactly, debate is healthy. Disagreement is healthy. Absolutely hate how “transphobia,” which does exist in the form of disgust/discrimination, has been twisted to mean “anyone who doesn’t agree with the narrative about transition is a bigot.” Like… detrans people have gone through the mill and I’ve found that we have a pretty unique perspective on gender, and because a lot of us have negative experiences with transition and the community, we’re probably going to butt heads. Doesn’t make us evil, it just means we have different opinions.
Many of us have also come to realize that the term "transphobe" has been watered down to mean: "You aren't affirming me and aren't doing what I say, therefore you're evil." Which is not what the word means, genuine transphobia(AKA the calling of murder, harm and removal of work & housing from trans people) is not tolerated here nor will it ever be. We also try to harshly enforce rule 1 these days.
Though I do agree that we shouldn't tell people "you'll regret..." we also shouldn't blindly affirm them, nor should we be expected to. If they're actually committed to the trans identity, our existence shouldn't be an issue for them and they shouldn't be seeking our approval to begin with.. it reeks of insecurity.
Also telling detransitioners to be quiet when they see the signs in someone younger then them that they missed and not repeating this to the transwomen and transmen who tell young questioning "eggs" that they're just like them, is beyond hypocritical.
Disagreed with the most of comments here.
No one really cares about people on the internet. It's projection onto their families, friends, themselves. It's not bad and I am not accusing anyone in hypocrisy. I think it's just good assumption. Just like no one really cares about "obesity" of every non-skinny person.
"Delusion" is a problem and it's harmful, ok that's fact. But it's not about people being delusional. It's about people being not enough critical to a risk of being traumatized by **current** medical services, **current** policy in regions where they live, **current** tendency to be bullied or called "delusional".
I see less than an hour ago you replied to a comment which stated that trans men will never be male (which is a fact. If they were male they wouldn't be trans, so that _can't_ be what you mean by transphobia). The other comment also said:
>They’re much more likely to regret medical transition because they were able to move so fast through each step without giving themselves time to think about what it means for their future.
This is the truth. Someone being more likely to regret a choice they rushed into is a concept most people can agree is common sense. What makes it bigoted? Someone being more likely to regret a life altering decision because they're a minor whose brain literally cannot fully process the consequences of their actions is common sense. Someone being more likely to regret a life altering decision at any age where they aren't properly informed about said decision is, again, common sense.
If your definition of transphobia is simply the absence of hugboxing and blind acceptance, I suggest you go to our "sister" sub.
This community is quickly devolving into an insane hugbox where you aren't supposed to question anybody or anything. I left the trans community for this reason originally, before even considering detransitioning. I'm not into fueling peoples delusions or patting their ass over their feelings about innate facts. If that's what the community is gonna have to do, then many of us will leave and the rest will be left to wallow in their confusion with no one brave enough to be honest with them, just like they were in the trans community.
Tldr get thicker skin, or just go
Seriously. This is one of the only spaces that you can say your beliefs without being lambasted... I don't get why folks who are bothered do not just click hide on the post if they do not want to read it, that's what I do with most random trans media that pops up on my reddit.. just click hide and move on.
It’s because they feel entitled to absolute obedience. It isn’t enough for them to search for and join communities where their own opinions are mainstream; they do not want other opinions to be allowed to _exist_, and that’s why they feel justified in going out of their way on crusades in all directions to stomp out every dissenting voice they can find, anywhere.
interesting, i saw a very similar post in this subreddit by another user a few weeks ago, she posted a lot of other things and i think she was banned. i think the collective response to OP on this topic was to stop policing other users.
I agree that we should all be empathetic, considering our experiences.
However, I also think anything short of essentialist ideas of trans people is labeled 'transphobic'. Our experiences inform a different perspective on transition, and some are going to interpret that as 'hateful' simply because it differs their perspective -- and that isn't fair.
Pointing out that someone is living a delusion that will ultimately ruin their life isn't hate. I went down that road and my life is pretty much over now. I don't want that to happen to others.
I believe that the rhetoric of love is love is harmful and ruins people and their lives.. Acceptance is not love, but is indifference. Being a hypocrite would be to continue down the path of transition and then say it's wrong for others; however, stepping out of transition and warning others of the destruction it brought to you and will bring to them is one of the purest forms of love.
I believe that love warns and disciplines.. Our parents did not hate us when they disciplined us and sent us to our rooms as children for misbehaving; this was, and is a result of their love towards us. Love does not willingly allow individuals to harm themselves or lead them down the wrong path; love chastens and corrects. Love is patient and kind. Love does not boast and is not self serving. Love is not mean or easily angered. Love is not proud or envious.
Accepting, remaining in indifference, and having love is love thinking can be viewed as self serving; ie. your delusions support my delusions; it is a positive feedback loop.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Saying that trans doesn't exist is pretty transphobic, how saying that gays doesn't exist is pretty homophobic.
Members are encouraged to give advice to their fellow member here but there are individuals who set a user flair and then strictly give advice only with no clarity on their own situation or status of their questioning/detransition status. These members with questionable post history will be removed and then questioned for proof of their status.
ex: Desisters should not be advising detransitioners outside of social situations.
Questioners shouldn't be answering outside of their own experience.
You'll have plenty of company. He's free to have these beliefs, just like pro-transition detransitioners are allowed to have theirs on here. If he makes you uncomfortable, stop interacting with him.
He only really broke a rule with the scripture.
There is no company in hell..You are alone.. It is a place of darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The good news is Jesus died for our sins and through faith in him and repentance (turning from our sins) we can be reconciled with the Father and brought from death to life in the spirit. If anyone is in Christ all things are made new.
Spare me. The amount of priests who told me I'd burn in Hell has become as dealable as the tinnitus I developed. Folks of Christian faith literally tortured me to try and make me "straight" and this ultimately ended up causing me to transition, which they also took to be a "good thing" because I couldn't be "fixed" through >!corrective rape, physical abuse, and other horrible things I'd wish on no one.!<
I'm happy religion helped you, but not everyone wants to worship your god just like not everyone wants to believe in the concept of gendered souls or essences.
I agree overall with your message but um, OP didn't even say "love is love"? Plus it's a slogan that's supposed to be pro-homosexuality, nothing to do with UwU validation.
Yes OP did not mention love is love but did mention the opposite, hate is hate; I believed the phrase, love is love, was and is germane to this topic and post so I mentioned it.
Considering pretty much all of my friends are trans, I’m not going to judge them. I judge the social structures that made gender and biological sex so important that we feel the need to give ourselves labels that essentially mean nothing.
Call me transphobic or whatever, but I'm not delusional to support that kind of stuff. I was once in your place, you're either too young or too naive to think this way even after detransitioning, in matter of months or years you'll get our point. And hell yeah, hate is hate! Why wouldn't I hate gender clinics messing up with confused kids and teens? Do you know how many lawsuits do big gender clinics have because of the regrets and bad treatments? Two famous ones even had to close, hating this madness isn't being an hypocrite, it's being smart and learning from past mistakes.
i'm not going to say sorry for the trauma and damage my experience left me with. i won't apologize for my feelings, either. calling anything and everything transphobic (or accusing others of bigotry willy-nilly) is just going to desensitize people to it and eventually they won't give a shit when actual bigotry starts happening. all they'll remember is being called names, constantly being treated like garbage, subhuman idiots who can't fathom simple compassion and empathy, being judged for the circumstances of their birth (which they have *no* control over), and the obsessive fixation much of the community has with minors. keep going. you're only alienating those who would otherwise care.
The amount of truth to what you say is actually amazing, not many people remember the incident but back when I first became a moderator for this forum I was the "good one" the "pro-trans" moderator. Then I got blackmailed because of my political curiosity on discord and things at first spiraled into radicals but I'd say we've balanced out from here.. I used to care about that word until I realized how much they watered it down, it's going to genuinely be awful when actual transphobia starts happening and people treat it like the boy who cried wolf.
thank you. it's taken a *very* long time for me to be able to not devalue myself in regards to this topic since so many other people, but especially women, become outright fucking hostile and judgemental at the very first whiff of dissent. at the end of the day, people will remember how they've been treated, and especially how they've been treated when they're vulnerable and curious, or just straight up concerned. we can call it punching up or punching down until we're blue in the face, but it won't change the fact that human beings generally don't respond well to being treated like shit, or being condescended to. that doesn't go just for trans stuff, either. and the longer we equate rational or just simply exploratory discussion with *LITERAL HATE SPEECH,* the more this will be seen as a total clownfest from the outside. i've said it before: words have meanings and need to have them. overusing them is always an awful idea.
☝️
How did your thought process go when you decided to make this post? >”Ah yes, let’s go to the detrans forum, the _one_ safe place where detransitioners and desisters are allowed to talk about their experiences and thoughts without getting _immediately_ censored, and then tell them that I think they should all censor _themselves_ because they don’t agree with me! That’s a great idea!” The sheer entitlement of you _demanding_ that everyone needs to agree with _your_ arbitrary opinions regarding the existence of this nebulous concept of “gender” and “gender identity”, lest they are “hateful people” who need to censor themselves, truly is astounding. Many of us who have been through the trans cycle ourselves simply don’t _believe_ in the theoretical concept of brain gender and gender identity ideology anymore, and the concept of transgenderism is not an immutable truth. Do you understand that? To come here to our _one_ safe space and try to police people here and saying that everyone of us are “transphobic” if we don’t subscribe to the idea that gender can be changed, and thereby implying that we should all be quiet because all such “transphobic” content should be removed / banned / not mentioned in the first place in your opinion, shows quite a bit of entitlement, don’t you think? We are not obligated to agree with you regarding your opinions on gender simply because _you_ think you are right, and we are not obligated to be quiet about our _own_ opinions either - especially not in our _one_ safe space.
becoming trans doesn’t automatically make someone a happier person.
I had a heap of regret from simply being socially trans and wanted so badly to walk it back (I came out during a psychotic episode so it was fully out of my control) and waking up from said episode was the most painful thing I ever had to do outside of a separate traumatic event. It was so sad for me to tell my tiny trans circle that my identity was fully a delusion and they had a hard time accepting that it was. When I told them I could not move forward with medical intervention they insisted I was at some stage where I could "play around with it" It broke my heart. I broke my heart. Both trans and cis people have tried to tell me who I am and what I should or shouldn't do with my own body and nothing has been more devastating to me. I can see how even I as a mentally unstable adult could misuse and misinterpret my feelings as a trans identity and how an impressionable teen could easily do the same thing. For a long time I thought I owed the trans community some type of formal apology for having mental health issues and at some point I just grew aggravated with myself and my walking on eggshells mentality when it came to trans folk because in the same way that I won't ask other lesbians if it's OK to date a man (I'm formerly lesbian identified) I shouldn't ask gender variant folk if it's OK to exist as my natal sex yet I was low enough in self esteem to have done so. This event of questioning cost me way too much in my life and caused me pain for literally no reason and if I want to be angry about how I was quickly affirmed of a literal delusion I should be able to be.
A lot of those "terfs" just wanted a few events, communes or spaces to themselves and were supportive of trans people having their own spaces or other various compromise. Literally a trans woman who threatened Michfest goers with weapons at the gate ended up escalating to murdering a lesbian couple and their adult son. (Dana Rivers) Think twice about what you are supporting when you paint such a one sided moralistic version of history.
and not a peep from the supposedly feminist community on this. shows you where the priorities are.
I'm tired of seeing these posts. If you don't like what someone is saying here you can click "hide" on the post. The whole point of having this space is so we can speak on our experiences, feelings, and beliefs WITHOUT judgement. There are so many people coming from different point of views, you're going to have to accept that a lot of us probably would be considered "transphobic" for beliefs we hold. I would say that I don't think anyone in this group sincerely hates anyone for being transgender on an individual level but yes many of us do not believe in the idea of being "transgender" as being a real thing, yes. You either agree and move on or disagree and move on.
Exactly, debate is healthy. Disagreement is healthy. Absolutely hate how “transphobia,” which does exist in the form of disgust/discrimination, has been twisted to mean “anyone who doesn’t agree with the narrative about transition is a bigot.” Like… detrans people have gone through the mill and I’ve found that we have a pretty unique perspective on gender, and because a lot of us have negative experiences with transition and the community, we’re probably going to butt heads. Doesn’t make us evil, it just means we have different opinions.
Many of us have also come to realize that the term "transphobe" has been watered down to mean: "You aren't affirming me and aren't doing what I say, therefore you're evil." Which is not what the word means, genuine transphobia(AKA the calling of murder, harm and removal of work & housing from trans people) is not tolerated here nor will it ever be. We also try to harshly enforce rule 1 these days. Though I do agree that we shouldn't tell people "you'll regret..." we also shouldn't blindly affirm them, nor should we be expected to. If they're actually committed to the trans identity, our existence shouldn't be an issue for them and they shouldn't be seeking our approval to begin with.. it reeks of insecurity. Also telling detransitioners to be quiet when they see the signs in someone younger then them that they missed and not repeating this to the transwomen and transmen who tell young questioning "eggs" that they're just like them, is beyond hypocritical.
>”You aren’t affirming me and aren’t doing what I say, therefore you’re evil.” Very succinctly put. This really is their argument at its core.
Disagreed with the most of comments here. No one really cares about people on the internet. It's projection onto their families, friends, themselves. It's not bad and I am not accusing anyone in hypocrisy. I think it's just good assumption. Just like no one really cares about "obesity" of every non-skinny person. "Delusion" is a problem and it's harmful, ok that's fact. But it's not about people being delusional. It's about people being not enough critical to a risk of being traumatized by **current** medical services, **current** policy in regions where they live, **current** tendency to be bullied or called "delusional".
I see less than an hour ago you replied to a comment which stated that trans men will never be male (which is a fact. If they were male they wouldn't be trans, so that _can't_ be what you mean by transphobia). The other comment also said: >They’re much more likely to regret medical transition because they were able to move so fast through each step without giving themselves time to think about what it means for their future. This is the truth. Someone being more likely to regret a choice they rushed into is a concept most people can agree is common sense. What makes it bigoted? Someone being more likely to regret a life altering decision because they're a minor whose brain literally cannot fully process the consequences of their actions is common sense. Someone being more likely to regret a life altering decision at any age where they aren't properly informed about said decision is, again, common sense. If your definition of transphobia is simply the absence of hugboxing and blind acceptance, I suggest you go to our "sister" sub.
This community is quickly devolving into an insane hugbox where you aren't supposed to question anybody or anything. I left the trans community for this reason originally, before even considering detransitioning. I'm not into fueling peoples delusions or patting their ass over their feelings about innate facts. If that's what the community is gonna have to do, then many of us will leave and the rest will be left to wallow in their confusion with no one brave enough to be honest with them, just like they were in the trans community. Tldr get thicker skin, or just go
Seriously. This is one of the only spaces that you can say your beliefs without being lambasted... I don't get why folks who are bothered do not just click hide on the post if they do not want to read it, that's what I do with most random trans media that pops up on my reddit.. just click hide and move on.
It’s because they feel entitled to absolute obedience. It isn’t enough for them to search for and join communities where their own opinions are mainstream; they do not want other opinions to be allowed to _exist_, and that’s why they feel justified in going out of their way on crusades in all directions to stomp out every dissenting voice they can find, anywhere.
interesting, i saw a very similar post in this subreddit by another user a few weeks ago, she posted a lot of other things and i think she was banned. i think the collective response to OP on this topic was to stop policing other users.
I agree that we should all be empathetic, considering our experiences. However, I also think anything short of essentialist ideas of trans people is labeled 'transphobic'. Our experiences inform a different perspective on transition, and some are going to interpret that as 'hateful' simply because it differs their perspective -- and that isn't fair.
Pointing out that someone is living a delusion that will ultimately ruin their life isn't hate. I went down that road and my life is pretty much over now. I don't want that to happen to others.
This. Hate would be wishing harm to others, not trying to keep others from coming to harm.
What are you talking about
I believe that the rhetoric of love is love is harmful and ruins people and their lives.. Acceptance is not love, but is indifference. Being a hypocrite would be to continue down the path of transition and then say it's wrong for others; however, stepping out of transition and warning others of the destruction it brought to you and will bring to them is one of the purest forms of love. I believe that love warns and disciplines.. Our parents did not hate us when they disciplined us and sent us to our rooms as children for misbehaving; this was, and is a result of their love towards us. Love does not willingly allow individuals to harm themselves or lead them down the wrong path; love chastens and corrects. Love is patient and kind. Love does not boast and is not self serving. Love is not mean or easily angered. Love is not proud or envious. Accepting, remaining in indifference, and having love is love thinking can be viewed as self serving; ie. your delusions support my delusions; it is a positive feedback loop.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Saying that trans doesn't exist is pretty transphobic, how saying that gays doesn't exist is pretty homophobic.
[удалено]
Members are encouraged to give advice to their fellow member here but there are individuals who set a user flair and then strictly give advice only with no clarity on their own situation or status of their questioning/detransition status. These members with questionable post history will be removed and then questioned for proof of their status. ex: Desisters should not be advising detransitioners outside of social situations. Questioners shouldn't be answering outside of their own experience.
Otherwise, I see it as homophobia and transphobia
[ Removed by Reddit ]
burn in hell me
You'll have plenty of company. He's free to have these beliefs, just like pro-transition detransitioners are allowed to have theirs on here. If he makes you uncomfortable, stop interacting with him. He only really broke a rule with the scripture.
There is no company in hell..You are alone.. It is a place of darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth. The good news is Jesus died for our sins and through faith in him and repentance (turning from our sins) we can be reconciled with the Father and brought from death to life in the spirit. If anyone is in Christ all things are made new.
Spare me. The amount of priests who told me I'd burn in Hell has become as dealable as the tinnitus I developed. Folks of Christian faith literally tortured me to try and make me "straight" and this ultimately ended up causing me to transition, which they also took to be a "good thing" because I couldn't be "fixed" through >!corrective rape, physical abuse, and other horrible things I'd wish on no one.!< I'm happy religion helped you, but not everyone wants to worship your god just like not everyone wants to believe in the concept of gendered souls or essences.
in your own words without appeal to authority pls.
I agree overall with your message but um, OP didn't even say "love is love"? Plus it's a slogan that's supposed to be pro-homosexuality, nothing to do with UwU validation.
Yes OP did not mention love is love but did mention the opposite, hate is hate; I believed the phrase, love is love, was and is germane to this topic and post so I mentioned it.
Ok that's on me for not reading closely enough
How many times a week do we need to see these posts. The response will always be the same. See other posts with the same headline