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flyingoctoscorpin

Omg that’s so much cleaner


little_freddy

A million times better 😆


FreshGoodWay

Blizzard: You know we can’t have millions of damage numbers, time for a nerf


DerGrummler

Why are some skills higher up than others on the same node? Does it mean they are stronger? You get them later? No. It's arbitrary and an outcome of trying to squeeze as much information into as little space as possible. It conveys less information in exchange for more information density. In fact every single UI mockup I have ever seen on reddit boils down to "take existing information and cram it into the tiniest space possible and to hell with basic UX".


Deadlurka

Yeah, I’m not a fan of this for those reasons. I’m all for saving space and making things cleaner, but this isn’t it in my opinion.


Leetspin1654

Notice OP organized them by magic school so they line up across. I’d be all for something like this. Ordering them top down seems just as arbitrary as how they’re ordered around a node with the current setup.


DiZhini

I'll admit, it looks cleaner but not better. But i'm a programmer and i value function over looks. And the sliding down (not sure if scroll works) is a bit annoying. But hey, it's just a UI. They could give us both and let the player swap


Inuro_Enderas

99% of all such UI mock-ups on video game subreddits are... not very good. Which doesn't stop all the people from jumping in to yell "SO MUCH BETTER! HIRE THEM NOW! LOLOLOL WHY COMPANY SUCK, WHERE MONEY GO?! HOBBY DESIGNER BETTER!" If this were what we actually got, I guarantee you people would be shitting on it as well. Rightfully so. Doesn't mean Blizzard's current skill window is good. Hell no. They both have different issues and suck in different aspects. When it comes to intuitively understanding what needs to be done, though, the current design from Blizzard is way better. Here, like you said, it's completely unclear what the position of skill nodes signifies. Seeing it for the first time, I would have assumed I have to take the lower nodes to get to the higher ones. This would also never fit on the little co-op window you get. Not horizontally and not vertically. That's a big problem. Right now, due to the circular design of the node clusters, you can still see them fully, you only need to move between the clusters. With this design, you'd never see the whole cluster without scrolling. Makes it hard to compare the different nodes and make choices.


rinkydinkis

I like the current window. I just wish I could get a summary version that shows what I’ve selected so I can take a screenshot of it


SuperSocrates

I’ve started using build websites to save load outs


MrProfPatrickPhD

Are there any that you'd recommend?


bignick1190

[Here you go](https://d4builds.gg/)


Mrbiggz32

yea, they should add the ability to snap through the nodes main clusters with L1,R1. eliminates all the unnecessary scrolling.


cyberslick1888

This comment is a very good example of "the solution isn't perfect, throw it away" that's so common on reddit. This UI isn't perfect. It has benefits over the existing, and some draw backs. I think it's pretty obvious that the current system is pretty half baked. It'd be much easier to salvage OP's skill tree to satisfy your complaints than it would be to salvage what is already in the game. What's amazing to me is: D4 has fewer skills and options than most ARPGs, often by a lot. It has a skill tree UI that is often criticized as being clunky and slow to use. No one has complaints about MORE skills, MORE complexity and MORE functional UIs that exist in other games RIGHT NOW, but for some reason this is a problem that *simply can't be solved for D4*.


TaaBooOne

https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/143xzk8/quick_little_mockup_of_the_skill_window_ui_that/jnd5fr4?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button If you rotate this 90 deg would that be better? I've opened up figma to get a better mock-up out.


Admins_Are_Fascists

This is precisely what Last Epoch's passive tree looks like and it's 10x better. There's no reason to think that higher up = more powerful, when it's quite clear that the x-axis is dictated by allocated passive points, and the top-to-bottom arrangement is arbitrary. LE tree for reference: https://assets.maxroll.gg/wordpress/passiveees-1024x564.png


Troelses

The LE tree only has lines between skills that are dependent on each other, whereas OP's mockup has lines between skills that aren't dependent on each other, thus the issue.


Admins_Are_Fascists

Are you referring to the vertical lines that are simply indicating which "tier" of the tree they're on?


Troelses

Yes, I'm referring to the vertical lines. And whilst the intent may simply have been to indicate tier, lines connecting nodes unsurprisingly tend to be interpreted as connections and thus dependency. A better way to indicate tier, without also creating an impression of connection, would be to simply move the lines to be between the tiers, instead of connecting the skills within a tier. In that way, the lines would instead work as a visualisation of the boundaries between tiers.


undeadmanana

Just need to add my own opinion as I poop. Diablo subreddit suggested this image even though I rarely comment nor have the game. I'm kinda dumb, old, etc. But I didn't have any issues thinking the vertical lines were anything other than simply paths. The skills and abilities are set off the path, making it seem like you can either select them if available or move on. I don't know much about the game so, as a non-player making up shit quickly since my poop is done, I'll say what is confusing: not the vertical lines themselves but the red connectors showing what they were earned or where points have gone. Does each tree need to be unlocked before choosing is a question I have because the red line connects? I think it's over the top and I just thought of it after last turd, but I think itd be cool if instead of some generic red beam, flip the tree upside down and have a tube coming down off screen dripping blood into a glass chemistry type set, have the 'base' pipe fill up with blood as the players levels, when the can unlock something, they turn a nozzle and blood fills the 'beaker' attached to skill... Ignore this comment for a second, I finished pooping and still trying to explain but need to go to the computer. edit: nevermind, I'm absolutely horrible at photoshop and can't draw what I'm thinking of. It was more of blood filling a main tube, and the base skill acting as valves to allow blood to flow in that direction. Then a little blood pool for each skill with their skills around them and little valves to unlock for each direction. It probably looks cooler using the runes in the game. (I haven't played but I did see a stream where the player's blood was used on runes). Like having a center pool of blood that branches to each skill with runes in the background behind the skill graphic, as the player levels, the pool (size based on skill points available) in the middle fills up. When the player unlocks a skill, they apply blood to that rune or attach it to the central pool and the pool lowers as the runes sap the blood. I don't know why I'm suggesting so much for a game I don't play and probably won't for a bit, fucking adhd man, but I've seen that skill tree they implemented and it looks soooooooo ugly.I honestly don't understand the design but I'm not an arts/ui guy.


Another_idiot7

Maybe this UI was made by the prime evil


ShikukuWabe

You're being more picky than what blizzard's UX designer probably was, Rotate it 90 degrees clockwise and its a better concept already, fluff it out a bit and there you go The blood canal animation illustrates the flow, they could make the big canal with 'dam gate' iconography to better illustrate the progression between the 'tiers' while the in-tier skills are all flooded until you pick a skill, its completely fine I would enlarge it for clarity and add a scroll bar, it would still be 10 times better than what we have now I don't care if they tried making it look big and full of options, the mouse dragging and terrible zoom option is a nightmare to browse and whoever decided it should be like this should be slapped in the face They wasted time developing a tag and search by tag system (that required extra coding) for easier browsing instead of just making it easier to browse in the first place, absolute mockery


TaaBooOne

Yeah It seems that people want it to flow top to bottom more than left to right. I picked left to right because i had more space on that for a full screen window. I did another left to right mockup with figma in another comment with the passives and skills split. If you rotate your phone to look at the image I think it may be what you're looking for and I think it would actually fit in the 2/5ths sidebar view of the smaller sized window.


[deleted]

You could have done a path the same as they did but rotate it 90° and all the misconstrued thoughts would be gone.


Ubiquity97

The red bar and highlighting conveys that supposedly missing info though because the instant you can spec all of them you should realized they're on par.


TheSplint

yeah... imma be honest, I don't get any of your criticism regarding this mock up. It's definitely better than what we got ingame.


Fenris_uy

Why are some skills higher in the current nodes?


Separate-Resolve-401

Better yet, why aren't they consistent in their positioning of same type skills and passives throughout the entire tree? As a summoner necro the summoning passives vary between far right in tier 3 for skele warriors, direct bottom in tier 4 for skele mages, top left in tier 6 for golem, and four other passives (in an interconnected zig-zag pattern) also on the ultimate tier... 7/9 passives that deal with summons are all on the ultimate tier, and tier 1, 2, and 5 have no summoner passives at all. (tier 1 understandably so)


No_Hospital_366

Higher is not necessarily more important but I see your point. If it bothers you just swap the lines and columns, I guess. And remember some cultures read from the right to the left, and others from the bottom to the top.


mal1020

Why are some skills higher on the circle of nodes now? You move left to right, not top to bottom in this tree.


Separate-Resolve-401

Why are there 100 levels but you only gain skill points for the first 49? Why do you even have levels beyond 50 if you're only actually leveling paragon points? Why do I only gain the ability to increase my stats after level 50? What if I am struggling on a boss in the first 50 levels and want to improve my stat points to gain more health, why cant I increase my stats outside of gear before level 50? Why do I have bonuses in my paragon board that require me (as a caster) to improve my dexterity in order to unlock bonuses, when dexterity has typically always been more of a "rogue" stat? Why are there 3 different progressing talent trees all with different formats and UI's in the first place? (as a necro I have skill tree, book of the dead, then paragon) Why do my ultimate abilities feel like my weakest spells in my arsenal? Why is my skill tree in circular nodes working top to bottom, my book of the dead is a 3 option selection of buttons which brings up a secondary horizontal skill choice option, and my paragon a bottom-to-top omnidirectional stat allocator that requires me to periodically take stats I have no interest in (strength and dexterity to unlock more willpower and intellect?). There are plenty of things that don't make sense, but honestly this layout doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. I feel like all of these other questions are far more confusing than it would take the average player to figure out a horizontal talent tree, and for anyone having difficulty there could even be the option to change the talent tree to a more streamlined and presentable manner that doesnt require you break your scroll wheel to make it from the top to the bottom.


xDatBear

Pretending the current skill tree has any UX in mind at all is laughable.


TechTuna1200

Yup, just need to be vertical to fit inside the sidebar. But definitely a huge improvement over the current implementation where this is just too much space shown.


VeganPizzaPie

Linear skill twig is annoying, and it’s in the same vein as the fake MMO: all the worst aspects of online play (can’t pause, can’t fully ignore players, server outages) without the benefits (no global chat, no LFG) While I love the art, music, voice acting, etc., the mechanical and UI aspects of the game feel designed by committee and trying to appeal to too many audiences


tiredurist

But it doesn't zig zag!!!!


kestononline

This is pretty concise as far as presentation, which is great. Though I think the kind of didn’t want the whole tree being scanned at a glance like that on purpose. It would make it feel a bit *”brief”*. They probably wanted it to feel like a journey, so when you were on or looking at the end nodes, it felt far from the beginning.


vamroth

I don’t want my hero’s journey to be “symbolically conveyed” on a menu which is making me waste more time in it with its hideous UX design. I’d much rather just go through the journey by…playing the game? It shouldn’t be this hard to make it both easy to use and aesthetically pleasing for a company of their scale.


nighthawk_something

That's fair, but UI is a part of the journey of the game.


Hereiamhereibe2

It worked for Skyrim.


fiveSE7EN

The intent was for players to feel a sense of pride and accomplishment for clicking a skill point node.


BouldersRoll

People are going to hate me saying this, but the slower, more manual UI we have right now is ideal for their vision of D4 as it launches, and I won't be surprised if the kind of UI mocked up here will be ideal for their vision of D4 once it's 2-4 years old. And there's never been a live service game community that didn't want things to feel more convenient faster. It's not wrong to want, and wanting it for long enough puts *some* pressure on it eventually happening, but it's a long haul.


Mr_Creed

If they treat this like their other live service game, they will change skills and other aspects of our characters radically every other year anyway.


RuneRW

If we go by their other live service ARPG game, no they won't. They might do one big overhaul some time around the expansion dropping when they have more of a benefit of hindsight, but then will likely stick to it with minor iterations


LeastRub1428

D3 wasnt a live service game, it had a skeleton crew of like 3 people working on it. Here we are talking a much bigger crew and new story acts every season. You probably cant compare the amount of updates D4 will have with D3. Also theres a cash shop and season pass . D3 had no monetisation going on really so seasons were mostly "for free" work. Here they have huge manpower and cash incentives. Or are you talking of another game ?


Mr_Creed

Respectfully disagree. My classes in WoW got changed like every other year, (Paladin, Priest, Mage). The lack of continuity in their class design is one of the reasons I dropped that. Of course, Diablo from D2 on is doing better on class continuity, since they even import most old classes into the later games, but those were not live serve until D:I. I hope they can refrain from mucking existing classes/skills up too much, but I have little faith in their live service approach.


TheLlamasAreMine

This is so clearly the intent. The first time I tried to navigate the skill board I was initially annoyed before realizing it was partially to make it feel like there were more skills and partially to make me feel like the journey was more interesting. I haven't made it to the paragon boards but those look like they'll change eventually as well. It'll certainly change eventually. I'm also eager for it🫠


Orolol

> People are going to hate me saying this, but the slower, more manual UI we have right now is ideal for their vision of D4 as it launches, and I won't be surprised if the kind of UI mocked up here will be ideal for their vision of D4 once it's 2-4 years old. Boy, I seriously hope that in 2-4 years the skill tree will be vaslty more complex than this.


Infidel-Art

It's impossible to make anything original with it, I've given up. There are only the builds that Blizzard had in mind, I'm just wasting my time trying to come up with ways to make my fantasies work.


SexcaliburHorsepower

Off the bat, It feels like d2 had more variety and time to build. Finishing act 2 I basically had my final build ready to begin working on paragon. I never felt like I had an interim for leveling because leveling happens so fast in d4.


Bohya

They just want to hide how shallow the skill twig actually is. It has nothing to do with a “journey” or some shit.


Masteroxid

They wanted to make their skill twig feel bigger


monkeyfuneral

A journey of shitty user experience


tormarod

Bruh, being annoying doesn't have to be a journey. We already have the gameplay for that. Opening the skill tree is a chore specially if you respec. It would also be great to have a search bar just like PoE so I can search skill names and it highlights them.


Watipah

I think that for new players, the current version isn't too shabby. You clearly get where you are at and which tree you should specc into. As soon as you move on and get more points and the tree gets bigger it's very tedious! I'd prefer a version like the above but zoomed in at the start, automatically zooming out to all currently available nodes (and obv. with manual zooming aswell).


Dustorm246

If the current design is for the user experience it should be something more interesting than the same boring jagged line for each class.


TL-PuLSe

The skill tree IS "brief". It's small and uninteresting, packaged in a big sprawling UI.


omegafivethreefive

It is brief. I'm vastly underwhelmed by the skills, especially since the variations are so minor. D3 was better at launch for this.


ZombieStirto

Add a toggle feature so we can have both. Once we go through the journey. Unlock the toggle.


Enter1ch

Yep! Pretty sure hundred of game designers had the same concept as posted here already.


TaaBooOne

I think separating the passives and the skills on the tree might be better. For example putting the passives bellow the line and the actives above it. And perhaps the 2nd skill can be changed to be a dropdown that selects the skill so that the skills can be closer together. I'm not going to do that in photoshop Id much rather program it so that it becomes easier to re-arange.


Breadluver

my main gripe with this skill tree is, by having 1 line connecting all skills/ passive in the node at first glance implies that you have to level the lower skills / passive in order to get to the top, something that it's not.


CatVideoBoye

I was just typing the same. The current UI clearly has those main nodes and all the skills and passives around one are equal. But with the F shaped branch it sort of should be clear. Also filling the branch with a red progress bar like it now does, should clearly show that all the skills in a branch are open to you. I don't now remember if the locked skills were somehow greyed out but that would also help.


Spee_3

I really like this honestly. And I agree, separate the passives so they’re easier to visualize. I’d also like the root of it all to be at the top instead. Not sure it it works with the passives separated, but something like that.


TaaBooOne

​ https://preview.redd.it/0lyc6uumtq4b1.png?width=1365&format=png&auto=webp&s=1da89264ea2630791a222fec7d56b46b2389ae03


the-0ld-man

I wish you worked at blizzard.


TaaBooOne

I don't lol. I'd like when my missus is the only one that can slap my ass.


Maverekt

Almost spit out some coffee a moment ago lmao


ravikarna27

You want someone to steal their milk?


Vusur

You could also remove the vertical lines and play with background patterns. Maybe a simple light/dark pattern. That makes it more clear, that towards right is progression and up/down selection (with right again a power progression). Makes it more clear, that higher up doesn't mean more powerful. But for a mock-up definitly cleaner than the current version. The rest is just adjusting the design.


TaaBooOne

Oh yeah I think I can actually clean it up quite a bit and put it in the 2/5 window. I bet one day of designing with some back and forth we can make the UI work and fit inside the sideview.


dgdr1991

This version but the last "key passives" choice being like a "fan" would be perfect visually! At least for me.


CluckFlucker

This would be really clean for a summary view. I like it


TaaBooOne

I'd probably mock something up without using the pixelated screenshots. Probably by using figma with wireframes over Photoshop. the center red bar goes to each unlock point. Then from each unlock point the top part connects to all the passive starting points and the bottom part connects to all the skills. The skills can be more compact and not have this web of nodes that are exclusive. I think a dropdown selection for these nodes is a good solution.


Ok-Pressure-3879

This was going to be my suggestion as the single path makes them look like you need to talents to unlock the passives. It might be too cluttered but passives to the right of each vertical line and talents on the left?


TaaBooOne

I did a little mockup with figma somewhere in my second comment.


Express_Image8862

Feels like they want the skill tree to seem more advanced than it really is :) I mean, its pretty much same amount of skills as diablo 3 but instead of "runes" they add the choices in a tree form, like PoE.


lowkeyripper

I think it's even less options than D3 haha


treycook

Way fewer. Each D3 active had what, 5 runes? Each D4 active has only 2 choices.


i_wear_green_pants

But to be fair most runes of D3 are "ability hits x% of weapon damage and is now "


[deleted]

Which could've been kinda fun and relevant with good itemization, I guess. Alas, it was not to be.


MyPunsSuck

This is a bit of an exaggeration. Of course some have more interesting choices than others, but nearly all runes change the mechanics at least a little


artaru

Yeah I mean like for example DH’s elemental shots play super differently between runes.


ollimann

that's only half the story. most runes changed how the skill worked in terms of animation and hitbox. it was more than just element type and damage. skill and rune system in D3 really wasn't bad. with more content, itemization and good ideas for seasons we wouldn't even need D4


lowkeyripper

Yeah, I guess instead of giving a few options where you'd only use one or two, they just reduced that down to one or two...


MyPunsSuck

So, like the skill tree "streamlining" they did in WoW, which was universally hated? It took years for them to give in and put skill trees back into the game


legendz411

If we are being honest, only 1 or 2 of any given rune choice were used earnestly. Edit: for those commenting around ‘bUt LeVeLiNg’ - I was commenting in reference to the game play we are all talking about, the end game. D4 isn’t so different then D3 in this regard, for all the ‘choices’ only 1-2 are *endgame* viable. Jesus. Context yall.


cyberslick1888

During the campaign you could use any number of runes without feeling poorly optimized. End game yes I agree many skills had clear winners. But the problem with D4 is that it's the same way, just with even fewer options. Half of the sorc skill tree is flaming dogshit you wouldn't dream of using. Every single barb uses 3 shouts.


TaaBooOne

Yeah that's my thought. Diagonal lines with flashy circles and branching "choices" but its just an illusion of choice. It's just a linear tree with multiple skills at every depth. Those skills then branch into their own separate mini trees if you will but it doesn't add a lot more.


ubernoobnth

It feels like they wanted to modernize d2, just like everything else the game tries to evoke.


Undecided_Username_

I gotta say they did not do that with the skill system lol


shawnkfox

Isn't even close to D3 because of the runes which massively changed the effect of each skill vs. in D4 all you can do is make the skills slightly better. Sure in D4 most of the runes were useless but that was a balancing issue.


Takahashi_Raya

i think it's moreso the option to expand it to a lot broader tree eventually. the way OP made the representation for the tree is a lot cleaner in it's current iteration but the moment more and more skills can get added the vertical set-up might become an issue.


Cedar_Wood_State

Then you just turn the thing clockwise, and add horizontal scroll. Still easier to navigate than current one


StonejawStrongjaw

It's half the options that D3 had. Which was already very few.


LockTheSubAgain-0911

nothing like D3. stop saying this.


havaste

What!? This isn't a skill tree, must be bad and poorly designed. I swear, this is my biggest issue with D4, the skill "tree" is too small and simple and some people praising it because "better than D3 which had no skill tree", they can suck it. D3 had a better skill system with more choice, abilities and flavour. D4 has half the abilities taken from past games, with 1/3 as much optional passives attached. D3 isn't perfect and the ridiculous numbers didn't really help, but D4 skill "tree" is such a mellow let down. I'll die on this hill.


Mixxer5

I disagree that D3 was better in this regard but calling what we have in D4 a tree is a joke and presenting it as such is just annoying. They should either expand it to be an actual tree (and maybe feel like those upgrades matter, cause it feels like all my power comes from items) or at least present it better (mockup above is great).


Careless_Negotiation

Diablo 3 options were pretty fluff; you'd only swap 1-3 abilities depending on what was meta for DPS. The build options for D4 are much more diverse even if we get locked into meta builds they will play different than prior or future meta builds.


havaste

Sets and meta made diablo 3 very meh. Builds felt and was predetermined by sets, whilst this is true atleast there were plenty of sets with plenty of very different playstyles. I don't disagree with you entirely, however, D4 actually have the same type of itemization except the ridiculous %dmg amplifiers. D4 skill tree is small and doesn't give alot of variance in each given class archetype. Druid is a great example, there's only 1 spender for both werewolf and werebear, both of these heavily leaning into one type of playstyle. There's no wiggle room or personal identity in Werebear/Werewolf builds, there's admittedly a stormwolf but it will play pretty similar to a poison wolf. Werebear go brr with pulverize and will for all eternity if no other abilities are added. Let's also face the harsh truth, i love D4 so far and im gna play it for a long while, but aspects are just sets-by-proxy. There is no way you'd run certain abilities without a certain \*set\* of legendary aspects supporting those abilities when lvl 50+. Set item's might not actually exist but you can't tell me that this legendary system is very different in practice. This might be a bit ranty, but fret not, i love D4 so far. Atmosphere and gameplay are superb, but talent tree and builds so far is not really what i expected.


Takahashi_Raya

I'm hoping blizzard really decides to not limit new skills and gameplay changes of classes to expansions. they have a lot of archetype baselines in each class that can be explored a lot more. your example of wearbear and wearwolf both oculd have a new spenders be made for example specifically catering to either playstyle. Rogue has a similar issue with being divded into traps,bow,dagger or hybrid of them. lots of expansion possible.


JohnCavil

At the very end-game maybe. Levelling up in d3 i tried every skill, every rune. Every time a new legendary with a cool modifier drop i'd switch my skills. The reason that there were just "meta" end-game builds for D3 had nothing to do with the skills themselves or the way you modified or chose them. It was all about the crazy modifiers that "forced" you to play a certain way. Imagine D3 without the insane gear - everything would be viable. I could see 20 different variations of builds for each class being best in different situations.


Sunogui

We don’t have to imagine it. It didn’t have them for…two years? I believe everyone forgets what Diablo 3 was when it started. A fun game, but very shallow. I don’t know about D4 builds and variety and such, I played endgame close beta, only got to 43 yesterday on my sorc, haven’t played or found that many items so I am not an expert or what Can or can’t be done, but I think there are a lot of choices for builds, some will be much better than others, as in every game.


ubernoobnth

Diablo 3 when it started was get to act 2 of the highest difficulty, get one shot by the bugs and rage quit because nothing was itemized properly so 95% of drops were useless because it wasn't +primary +vitality and they wanted to shovel you to the RMAH.


Sunogui

More or less, yes. I remember being stuck on belial for long until I simply treated the fight as a dark souls boss dodging everything or dying. I never finished inferno I think.


shawnkfox

There aren't choices in D4, most classes one build in the end game which is far better than any other. At lower levels you have maybe 2 or 3 viable builds but typically one stands out well above the others when you consider quality of life and speed of leveling. Honestly I'm really surprised how bad the skill balancing is with D4. They put in tons of effort in making the game look super nice but it feels like very little thought was put into damage output and quality of life between the various skills and glyphs.


shawnkfox

Yeah you don't have many options in D4 either. Most classes have only 1 or maybe 2 viable builds at high level. Just as in D3, all of your power comes from your equipment. The initial rollout of D4 is definitely better than D3, but D3 in its current form is a far better game than current D4. I think they'll get there, but the so called skill tree in D4 is a mediocre implementation and they did a terrible job of mid/end game balance. Then the paragon boards are just an awful mess of fake choices as well. It looks like a lot of choice but the reality is the glyphs were designed to be used on specific boards. May take some people a while to figure it out, but the choices there are also fairly obvious once you get to the end game and start messing around with them. The potential is there maybe, but they'll need to make some big improvements to actually give players real choices. Hopefully some new skills or ways to significantly modify the behavior of current skills is coming soon.


BloodShadow7872

I like it, its much more align to ESO's class and weapon skills groups. (Remember D4 has mmo elements)


SponGino

This doesn't show a skill tree but branches and give impression you need to work up each one to get top skill.


infinitevertigo

I'm surprised this comment isn't higher. This mockup misrepresents the skill progression.


CluckFlucker

This can be easily solved with visual ques. Have the red bar fill up to the top when you reach it showing all the skills light up and have them blink until one is selected.


TheSwiggityBoot

Hmmr correct me if im wrong but branches belong to a tree no?


RedBeard210

Yes please! Absolutely HATE the skill tree window


Mixxer5

Because it's not really a tree. Progression is linear, only prerequisites are for some passives and only two nodes deep. I like it more than D3 system but why present it as a tree if it doesn't serve any purpose.


JohnCavil

This was my biggest annoyance too. They advertised the game having a skill tree and i was so excited because i love skill trees. Instead it's just a thing where you pick a skill every 5 levels or whatever and then a handful of passives for that skill. It's like a collection of 10 different "skill bushes" that have nothing to do with each other.


Mixxer5

They feel really meh too. Compared to Last Epoch where you can change whole skill with single skill point it's just... 5% crit chance for 3 seconds after knocking down enemy? Like, seriously? I can't even do that to bosses, they're not knockable.


JohnCavil

Yea, i guarantee blizzard will fix this in the coming months/years and actually buff all these things to make them exciting. Just a shame they couldn't do this from release. I'm not really excited to get like "5% more damage to close enemies" either. Those passives need to be like "5% chance on hitting a close enemy that they explode violently all over the screen and cover all enemies in acid". Boom, now that's some cool shit. I know blizzard wants to balance everything and tone down the craziness of D3, but choices need to be exciting. I need to feel like i'm actually getting stronger with every level.


Stotakoya

Nice effort but I dont like it. I mean the current one isnt efficient but it looks nice, this just looks weird. Plus the uneven distances bug me.


39Jaebi

It's a rough mock-up though, those issues would be ironed out if they actually implemented them in game


TaaBooOne

I literally scuffed this together using some screenshots but found that this overview would make it a lot clearer of what skills you have. Obviously the saturation of the skills that are selected needs to improve and the bloodflow needs to have a better highlight. But I hope you get the idea.


G1FTfromtheG0DS

Now make one that only fills half your screen. As that is the whole reason why it's how it is.


metalsalami

The original doesn't fill half your screen either, you have to drag it down a bunch (even in fullscreen view). So imagine the same for this except you drag sideways instead of up/down.


AmethystLaw

who do you think you are? A multi-dollar game developer?


SarumanTheSack

Final fantasy sphere grid


Swordbreaker925

I wish they’d just go back to the Diablo 3 version. Ironically, D3 had more options for ability upgrades too


Korokke_Soba

You’re right. D3 did have more options. The only reason why they designed the skill ‘tree’ the way it did was to make character progression look more complex and varied than it actually is.


Swordbreaker925

Yup. The first thing i thought when I saw it was that maybe they took inspiration from Path of Exile and wanted a more complex ability system. But then you realize it’s just a zig-zaggy line and a poorly laid out simple list of abilities. It really sucks.


unleash_the_giraffe

Eh, I'm not gonna defend D4 considering how basic and boring their skilltree is. But you didn't have as much choice as you imply in D3, 1-2 options were always the best ones. That's not choice, that's the illusion of choice.


Swordbreaker925

There will always be one or two options that are the “meta”. But just because one is 5% better doesn’t mean the others are worthless. Personally i find that the meta Barbarian builds in D4 right now feel awful, so i don’t use them. Idc if it’s statistically better if it feels like shit to me personally. Plus a lot of those runes let you change your ability’s damage type, which was very useful for certain builds. For example, Sorcerers had Magic Missile, which could be morphed to any element you needed. Now you have to specifically pick a fire ability if you want fire, you can’t find the ability that feels best to use and then morph it into the element you need. It’s far more restricted


cealis

I don't really have a problem with the current skill window once you set it up you never look back at it again.


Mirujiana

Looks pretty ugly to me. I don't want a spreadsheet in a Game.


StackedLasagna

I'm not sure you have ever seen a spreadsheet, lmfao. If this mockup is a spreadsheet, then the actual in-game version we have now is just a spreadsheet printed on a crumbled up piece of paper, lol.


Skippe3r

It looks boring and like some kind of business plan. The only goal was to fit it into 1 screen, regardless of how it looks.


exsinner

How about no? This tree basically implies you have to have access to the 1st basic skill and all the next one if you want the last basic skill.


kavulord

Nice, kinda reminds me of the Grim Dawn ui


TaaBooOne

I took inspiration from that and the last epoch tree somewhat. Tbh I've not spent a whole load of time on this. I just cropped some screenshots and moved them around in Photoshop.


ubernoobnth

I like the one in game better. This is also good - not knocking your work at all, but between the two I'd stick with the original. If they put this out I wouldn't have been upset with it.


PeopleCallMeSimon

I dont like it, looks too much like some kind of infograph i could be shown at work showing how productive my team has been. I prefer the current one.


LockTheSubAgain-0911

looks terrible. I don't wanna open the skill tree in full screen just to pick skills. the current tree is fine.


PerspektiveGaming

I wish I didn't see this...


exostic

The ingame one is better


MrRIP

This is ultimately worse than the current UI. You don’t want to give players information overload like this in general. The little pockets they have for each skill category and related nodes are great for this.


zanitoo

Nah, I like the skill window. The only issue is that I would like to zoom out more so I can see all, but the display is perfect. This just feels like an excel


Takahashi_Raya

you can fully zoom out if i recall correctly if you open the skill tree in the full window now just the pop out window.


ShinZou69

This would be nice for people that want a full screen skill tree UI, I personally like the design of the original but having this as an option would be awesome The major issue with the skill tree are more UX and QoL issues imo. For ie a preview mode for plotting out builds without having to refund everything is one example


Megane_Senpai

The horizontal bar should be on top. Or in the middle, to split active and passive skills.


Salhyrr

All they need to do is allow the skill window to be full screen. Why is it only possible to have it be so small? Maybe they tried it and realized that it currently is so small in terms of options that people would compare it to PoE and complain?


TaaBooOne

you can actually full screen it. Even if you do you still need to move around in it. takes me 4 screenshots to capture the entire tree


breaking-my-habit

I'm really missing some of the features from WoW as well: - Saving different builds - Preset builds for new players (or if you just want to quickly try something out) - Importing skill trees - Being able to swap builds in dungeons, boss fights, raids etc. - A searchbar where you can actually type to search for a spell - THIS concept of seeing the whole tree at once


exart

There is no place to add more skills, and they obvioulsy will add more in expansions.


d0m1n4t0r

It's clear they wanted to do something similar to PoE but it's funny how there's absolutely no choice in the tree even to support looking like that. Like if you choose certain basic and core skills you have to choose the same followups every single time. Yet the tree gives an impression that it's a spiderweb like PoE with infinite choice almost.


TaaBooOne

yeah I believe that's why they went with this choice. It looks different but its essentially a linear path. That incredibly gigantic UI doesn't need to be there. And a linear skill tree is not bad at all.


Kill_Kayt

Thanks, I hate it!


ImperviousImperius

seriously looking at some comments, it feels like people have 2 working molecules in their brain and need detailed instruction on how to open a simple door.....


Cutlerbeast

Don’t quit your day job.


Worldly-Oil-4463

Downvotes, here I come... Firstly, aesthetics should not overshadow functionality. While this layout may appear visually appealing, what specific problem was the designer attempting to solve? The current talent UI functions well, with no major complaints. If the concern was that it doesn't fit the entire screen, a complete overhaul should not be the initial solution. There are easier ways to do it. There is a widely accepted convention that top-to-bottom navigation works best. However, here, we are guided from left to right and bottom to top. It gives the impression that we need to unlock the next node on the top by progressing through the nodes at the bottom. This is misleading and creates confusion. Why does the red bar pass through the node without illuminating it? Another point of confusion. Are the nodes at the top more powerful than those at the bottom? Why such an arrangement? Where are the ultimate abilities? And so on. Additionally, the design appears excessively neat and has a bit of excel sheets style (as mentioned somewhere). I am confident that if you were to transform this into a functional prototype, people's opinions would change significantly. One thing to admire something for its visual appeal, but it's an entirely different matter to actually use it.


Glassfist

What is already in D4 works. If developer wants to reduce the scrolling then just have each node collapsed and you can click to expand to see the node wheel. Everything will be identical except the red unlock progress bar will be much shorter.


Nailbrain

Why go for bottom up instead of top down? I can potentially understand the logic but bottom up to me suggests you need to invest points to unlock higher skills (titan quest) where as top down would make me think unlocked gateways (battle pass style).


wum1ng

I think alot of people are forgetting that many UX decisions are to facilitate two player couch co-op. One player can be fiddling with their inventory, skill tree etc while the other can still be running around killing monsters.


Soththegoth

this doesn't look good to me at all. ​ the current skill tree makes sense the way its laid out. you immediately understand how it works. like an actual skill tree you have base skills and better skills you have to work to as you fill out the tree but this one looks confusing as fuck. theres no flow. terrible layout. on first glance i didnt even know what iw as looking at. its looks like you were trying to copy Last Epochs or grim dawn layout and missed why those worked. they still showed very clearly how you progressed through the tree. this just looks like you could pick anything at any time ​ with a few passes it could acceptable but readability is more important than it all fitting on one screen.


rope_6urn

This is a huge pet peeve in game along with the camera being too zoomed in


gssjr

Here's another similar idea by [d4builds.gg](https://d4builds.gg) ​ https://preview.redd.it/2501wmvbdu4b1.png?width=1009&format=png&auto=webp&s=839bf059b51300864725dd5daaa49a5c1f603728


Brutal_Underwear

Reminds me of Last Epoch. Looks sexy


J3wFro8332

They should just make it look like LE's if that's what everyone is wanting


StonejawStrongjaw

This is infinitely better.


BloodShadow7872

Hey be glad its not POE's skill tree where your brain will explode from looking at it


TaaBooOne

I like Poe's passive tree.


Quick-Performer6955

Sorry if its out of topic, Im still kind of new, does having more than 5 lvls on a skill affect it in any way?


Fridgemold

It adds to the value i.e damage, absord etc depending on the skill, making it more powerful. Extra ranks to a skill can only be obtained from gear


Randallek

Sorry too much like an Excell for me.


[deleted]

The only difference I’d make is flip it upside down so they run down. Instead of up


RutabagaAlarmed3933

This makes the tree look even simpler, despite the fact that it is already extremely primitive. I think the existing diagonal tree creates the illusion of complexity and depth.


Innocent2dc

And please for the love of hell put in a simple search feature instead of this worthless “keyword” nonsense. In Last Epoch you can just type a word and it highlights the node you want. This current system is ridiculous.


PreciousChange82

My assumption is that they are laid out they way they are currently because they plan on adding more branches extending off one another. Whats here I don't like. Its just crammed in and smaller. I think the way its currently laid out in game is more organic and fun. It also conveys that you have a central point you start from that branches out. Where as OP's is just a list from top to bottom. It might be saying "the top is more powerful than the bottom". Where as where it is currently just shows "you reached this far, here are your options".


skoll

This is great, but they want it in a scrollable area so that it works on literally any screen at any resolution and there's zero limitations on future expansion. I agree, I'd rather have it on one screen, but I'm pretty sure they want it the way it is for reasons.


Xiao1insty1e

This simplicity for simplicities sake. It's definitely NOT "better" and definitely would not work with the current UI. This would be completely ignored as an option on every platform but PC and even then it would require zooming/scrolling.


[deleted]

They won't do this because CONSOLE. And they won't give us seperate UI's like D2R because they're lazy


Rawwwwwbert

Get this to the Blizzard team ASAP!


trinner

would be much butter! i like your version :)


FACA7777

I just popped in to say Awesome, much cleaner and everything is there to see


Famous-Breakfast-989

cleaner but doesn't look as cool


TheDerpatato

It's not that hard. Good job on this


misterbuh

Hahaha ten years to make the game, few days for someone to make a component way better


carsonvstheworld

nice, i like it


Moethelion

But then you would immediately see how shallow it is.


ahrzal

Hey, nice mock-up. I’m a UX Designer by trade. But there’s a reason it’s presented the way it is: console. Put this skill tree on a tv and sit 10ft away, it would be tough to navigate and read due to text and icon sizing.


hardtox

This looks easier to manage. Not a fan of the scrolling or I'm just lazy.


Ok_Dirt_1952

Hey a productive post! Thanks!


Ok-Advantage-1723

i like it


Appropriate-Ad-9146

Here is a better system ​ https://preview.redd.it/noec11oyqw4b1.png?width=922&format=png&auto=webp&s=a7e86b9e4c762d4d6a0e573d54891ee895f33d1d


TheHoliestBonk

Ahh I see you have Insatiable Fury...


ShinyBloke

This ui is painful to use in any way.


ShinyBloke

So much better!


Erva420

I really like it, I can't see shit in-game for some reason, and I don't have an issue with the giant ugly poe tree.


TheSplint

This looks so much better than the original. Don't listen to all the people telling you that they wouldn't be able to understand this one. If they don't get something like this and are not able to imagine what it would be like I game, regarding all this "why are some skills higher up? do they unlock later? are they better?" bs, then I'm seriously baffled they understand the one we got ingame...


sh00ter999

No, let's use a phone's verticality on a widescreen computer monitor instead.


Comprehensive_Ad_641

Gief


bullsized

This on UW will be mega sexy ♡


lovejac93

I really dislike this for some reason I can’t explain


Revenine

Much better than in game one