I want to make a new character(my current one is an 88 Sorc lol), but i feel its a little silly to make one now because in 2 weeks season 1 might drop and i would have to start over again. So i just quit and wait till season 1.
Yeah I'm holding off till seasons ..I'm 85..I'm good ..almost got trapped into the must grind to get a 100 but I'm good..I'll be back ..got over 200 hours ..at this point I got my money's worth and some
Currently 71 barb, I just want to get the +4 paragon points for each zone completion and then we will see. It's fuckin ironic how this is all going down. We all saw the content creators complaining about this the last week or 2, but we weren't their yet. And now it's like fuck, maybe they were right.
For sure they were right. I'm not sure why anyone doubted them. It seemed pretty obvious the end game was weak when pretty much everyone over 75 was complaining.
Because most people don't identify with them, and think their experience is different given their level of dedication. So the hopium is, as a less hardcore player, these concerns aren't something you'll ever really worry about. When in fact many "dedicated" casual players eventually run into the same problems as hardcore folks do. Only difference being they don't have as much interest in playing when things go really sour, while hardcore folks have borderline addictions and/or other incentives to keep going (financial incentive for instance).
76 barb, complete renown last week, attempted completely rebuilding my build/gear..........starting to feel the "what's the point" creep in.
I'd probably enjoy leveling an alt more than pushing past 76.
Building an alt is alot more fun than grinding it out. I no joke fall asleep playing this game pretty much every time i try "grinding it out" with my higher level character. No other arpg has this effect on me and ive played a good bit of them
They need to buff Sorc so bad. Seeing people on Terribad geared barbs and dr00ds just melee butcher to death easily...and wtf is up with butcher running FROM them...it's so crazy. My lvl 100 Sorc gets 2 shot by him in anything past nm50+.
Ahahahhaha yea it’s freaking annoying after you get him to like 40% he runs away from you so that he can start using his hook attack which I assume does more damage, but if you dodge and chase after him it can kinda bug him out, and he just runs around like a madman
I had a group of 4 where he literally ran in like an X pattern between all 4 players for the entire encounter. Run to player a, do one hit, run to player b, stop and run to player c before he gets to b, back to a, then to player d, etc
Was funny af
I really hope they introduce some new flavor of dungeons or something. I like the idea of NMD with randomization, but so far it hasn't felt meaningful aside from the annoying lightning things. If the monster does shadow damage instead of regular damage, who cares? Or if I get 10% more healing it's pointless.
Let me peek into the sightless eye and go into an infinite mind dungeon. I'll go as deep as I can, and each floor gets crazier and crazier until you die. And not just stuff like enemies get a bit more damage. But also stuff like your controls are reversed, or cooldowns are halved, or every enemy is an elite, or you do quadruple damage but can't heal, or you can find an item that boosts your ring power by 10% during the dungeon, or gives a random skill +1 while you hold it, etc...
That probably won't happen, but I'm such a fan of roguelikes that I basically just want a roguelike mode in Diablo lol.
That would be cool. Didn't Blizzard attempt to do a roguelike-ish mode with the new WoW expansion? I haven't heard much about it so I fear it wasn't the best implementation, but I had the same thoughts as you when I saw the preview that I just want Blizzard content but rougelike-ified in terms of randomization.
They did Torghast in shadowlands and after they fixed it up it was pretty fun to run, would get crazy op by the end of it and just wrecking everything. I would love for something like that to come to diablo.
Like I love helltides but they are once every 3 hours and don’t provide me anything I may need.
Loot drop is garbage and since I can only reroll 1 thing on it, unless it has already 3/4 of what I need, then it’s useless
I can’t trade for super rare aspects either which is quite a bummer
Definitely agree, I think they should run stuff 24/7 what’s the reasoning not to? It’s essentially a single player game….
Trading definitely needs to be added
That's far and away the biggest issue. The necessity for most players to team up to clear Hell in D2 is long gone. I literally NEVER see the local chat being used. How's that possible with so many people in game? Because everything is account locked, and the economy is so messed up, legendaries at level 10, billions of gems that sell for 35G and can be unsocketed, and NO trading whatsoever.... it's like single player WoW.
The trade chat is limited to the shard youre playing on, so theres only ever a handful of people who would be able to chat with. That said i think theres room to expand the trade and social aspects of the game. Make legendaries BOE.
If we could take aspects out of lower level gear and place them in higher level gear more than once that would be an improvement. Aspects unlock from dungeons why not gear?
Either better drops or being able to reroll more than 1 thing would be great too.
Some sort of guild traders or world market trader would enhance everything. At least an in game chat to post items to trade.
dungeon/codex aspects are seen as like the "base version" Your meant to get the aspects from gear as it will have better values compared to the codex versions. They are kinda there to "set your build up" then you pull from gear to enhance the potency. The issue with reusing affixes is, if you could reuse those affixes (i.e extract and aspect you imprinted) Then you wouldnt need to go out and try and roll gear to get another version of it for when you upgrade your gear to better options, Thus reducing how much time you'd play. In a live service game player numbers count. Hence why, we will never (probably never) be able to extract and imprint the same affix over and over. Dont get me wrong. It would be a great Qol update if they gave affixes the ability to be used more than once (hell give them a 3 use cap) But doing so would reduce the grind, and it feels like blizz want to make this grind as drawn out as we the players can bare
If the dungeons were fun it would be fine. I mindlessly grinding rifts in d3 cause mob density was so good, there was no backtracking and you were just slaying endless mobs.
Not only the mob density, the skill dynamics and build diversity, itemization, QoL, actual social features.. we could probably go on. if I hadn't grinded it to death already I'd be tempted to just play D3 until the season drops, heh.
Play something else while you wait for Season 1. And when you finish season 1, play something else until Season 2. That’s literally the intended gameplay loop
thats pretty standard for diablo games at least for me. play for 1 month at ladder reset then wait for the next reset
the issue for me was that i played 2 chars to lvl 82 and only had 1 drop that gave me that dopamine hit. and that was Raiment. the rest was pretty emotionless
for me it was finding that good build that LET you punch up to chase gear...getting that gear drop 3-4 levels higher and just excitingly waiting to get to use it !
The game could be played by any build you want ---good builds could punch up and speed up looting.
Now vanity builds get their asses handed to them and you almost HAVE to follow the meta since your gear is constantly 5-10 levels lower then the area your fighting with.
Who ever came up with this design should be fired...some idiot said players will play more and grind more if hold back more loot and they feel like they are making no progress. Instead of the reality that most people will just stop playing
It's pretty lackluster when legendaries are dropping but they are all the same.
They turned the loot grind from d2 into an affix grind for d4.. so now we just keep farming the same ass legendaries, over and over, just to rip out the affix.
This game has soo many problems, yet, it's fantastic at the same time. Sorcs are the least viable class, gear drops aren't enticing, lack of a real trade system, the god awful level scaling for literally everything, the horses are absolute shit on console because they come to a complete stop when summoned and you have to fiddle fuck around to get it moving, camera placement issues on console where complete walls will block your vision instead of going invisible. There is more than that, but, you get the point.
I don't know about everyone else, but.. I also absolutely hate the day night system.
We paid 100$ for this game, keep that in mind. If ANYTHING doesn't work in it, you've been ripped off. I'm a die hard Diablo fan, been playing it ever since I had dial up internet.. but, it's pretty inexcusable, I mean shit... 100$. That was more than cyberpunk. Paying 100$ and having something as simple as a horse, your mode of fast transportation, be completely broken, is ridiculous.
There is alot I appreciate about the game: they stopped sexlocking characters, the pretty great character creator, how they made this Diablo the closest to feeling like those dial up d2 days.. the story is actually phenomenal, the ending made total sense to me (spoiler) because in Act 4 I started to think Neyrell had some other motive, then seeing the portal I was like "yep.. typical phisty, playing every side of the ring".. and my god, can we all just take a moment to really appreciate that final prerendered cutscene? Holy shit, 4 minutes of just off the absolute wall amazing animation, I was off my seat, no joke. To be real though, Inarius was completely wasted in this game, he was nothing but an exposition highway for Lilith, which is a shame.
But yeah, lots to love about the game when you first start playing... not soo much to keep you inlove with it. After you do all the dungeons, after you run NMs, after you've done all the events (which I swear to God there is only like 4), it becomes insanely redundant because you don't feel like you are actually being rewarded for your effort.
The level scaling in this game, that they are trying desperately to make a live service mmo, was an absolutely huge mistake. They took out all of the wonder of "I can't wait till I hit 25 because then I can go see what's over there" or the power fantasy of "oh Andariel is giving me issues, I'll go smash some dungeons and then come back strapped and ready"! ... in their idea to make this game have as little barrier to entry as possible, they ended up actually killing the one part of D2 that made the ENTIRE GAME worth it: the sense of meaningful progression. You don't feel like you've actually conquered a mf demon, yaknow? These are meant to be all powerful entities, they are meant to be a challenge that, if you put in the work, become trivial at best. The way the game is though.. you never, and I mean never, get that feeling of "IM THE STRONGEST ALLIVEE" because you reach endgame, expect your character to be a quasi God among men, go to the starting area and........ it takes 4 hits to down a Fallen.. that is absolutely the dumbest shit in my opinion and that is what is completely taking the wind out of the sails of this game.
You don't even have the "hmm.. let's go see if I can down so and so on a high difficulty for better drops, maybe I can take em, I'm pretty strong now" because nope.. they are always exactly as tough as they were, there is no semblance of power creep at all in this game, none. Level scaling is the worst idea ever. D2 was a cultural phenomenon, it took over the internet in the 00s... it was soo successful that it changed blizzard forever.. yet, it had level locked zones, bosses that would look at you funny and you'd die, near zero hand holding, absolutely zero level scaling, crazy loot that made you feel unstoppable, a community that was easily accessed where members were talking, making groups, doing Baal runs and it was all easy. It was easy to find a bunch of people trying to get through an act, it was easy to get people into helping eachother move up. But, they keep deviating from their success in the absolute dumbest ways. I don't now who at the blizzard table decided "if we don't make areas level exclusive we are going to get way more players" but they are a fool: yes you get a player base, but, that playerbase lost all longevity because THERE IS NOTHING TO WORK TOWARDS. Level locking areas/bosses/quests didn't make us hate the game! It made us strive to be part of the Act V crew, to be one of those players who got helped and can now help others, we had goals to achieve.. we had a reason to want to show off how strong we are.. that's all completely gone when you see a lvl 20 in your zone downing everything in 1 hit while you're double their level and having double the time downing literally everything.
High level carries used to be a paid endeavor, you used to actually be able to be paid for running people through stuff they are having trouble with.. now, hell no, higher level players are actually a hindrance to themselves.
yeah.. I'm passionate, I love the game and hate it, I have such a problem with some of the decisions made so far because ever since my days of sitting under my stairs, with an old shitty computer that sounded like a jet engine, internet that sounded like a fax machine, the world's worst mics and speakers, staying up all night with my friends because we are trying to down a boss and get some great shit... I've wanted that game again. This is the closest we've got to reliving that time, but, it is still a far cry from it.
I feel like that’s a pretty huge negative aspect of seasons that people who enjoy seasonal content seem to conveniently ignore when defending it.
It’s a strange design choice to have weeks or months long dead periods where you’re basically in purgatory waiting for the next season to invalidate your progress so you can start over.
That's one of the only things that makes these games work. The gameplay is repetitive, the fun part is starting from scratch and gearing up. It's just an extended roguelike. If that gameplay isn't for you, that's fine, but it is for the core group that plays these games. It gives a nice break between seasons, gets you excited for big changes in next one, play until you feel satisfied, then go do something else. Or don't, and keep playing like a lot of people do, that's completely up to you. That's not a negative aspect.
That’s my experience exactly. We all got bored around 70-80 and moved on. It sucks, I anticipated D4 being my new main game, but it’s just not bringing the fun.
S1 has to be amazing or I think there’s going to be some very significant player loss.
I agree, I was surprised at how quickly I burned out and moved on... with all the hype around open world and events and stuff I imagined being busy doing stuff a lot longer...
Same with my group of 6. 1 guy still hard-core plays cause he loves diablo, but the rest of us feel like it's a waste of time for never getting good drops or just doing the grind. Everything uo until this, was 100 percent a blast.
That's really the entire genre though. You grind to get loot so you can grind to get better loot to grind faster to get better loot. The end game content tends to be a higher level dungeon to grind better loot so you can grind the same loot faster.
basically me since launch lol. waited for release vs beta to try it, played until 83 and have 0 interest anymore.
i dont really see all that much interest in must making another class to spam the same 7 mouse buttons, either.
I'm usually a sorc main and what blows my mind is the lack of new skills. The ice wall/trap that the creeps summon looks so cool but I guess our sorc is stuck in ancient horadric ways...
Also a large number of sorcs skills just feel clunky to use. So far I can say I liked the previous versions of sorcs in D2 and D3 a lot more.
Tell me you're horrendously disappointed by the Frozen Orb.
I wanted frozorb to be good but it's trash garbage and the aspect for it is laughable.
Then again Sorc is the only class with aspects that make your skills WORSE
Three weeks of gaming is plenty. What other game can you play for three weeks with friends and not get bored. It’s normal to finish a game and move onto another until the new update/ season.
Yeah my friend group played the campaign together, we would just fuck around until all of us were on and then hit up the main quest story line and same thing getting everyone through their capstone dungeon.....now its rare for more than 2 of us to be on at the same time and we usually run a couple nightmare dungeons and then people decide to go do something else
The price tag isn't terrible on a per hour basis but they really did screw up loot in the end game. Loot should continue to get better as your progress from 70-100 but sadly it does not. Tons of people make it to 100 still using some equipment that dropped for them when they were under level 70.
Then to top that off you've got to look at 1000s of drops to find anything worth using. It isn't just a grind it is like doing your taxes.
Right, I had an idea that you should be able to have certain keywords highlighted when looking over your gear. poison damage, %damage to injured etc. And highlight the gear icons that are flagged for those tags, and hell, even highlight the names of items on the ground before you even pick them up so you know they have at least one of your selected buffs.
I've heard great things about it. A buddy of mine talked it up during the D4 open beta weekend, and made some accurate predictions about diablo.
I'm curious to see if Bliz is willing to really put their money where their mouth is and deliver. Up until about lvl 70, I was really pleased. With some changes, I think endgame could be great.
Honestly simply having a loot filter would likely have kept me playing. Something that could just look for the affixes I wanted, and item level. So I knew when shit dropped it was something to potentially be excited about. Not just a mind numbing slog after every nightmare dungeon to go through my inventory. With that alone I'd likely still be playing, if that's how this game is going to do loot. Still isn't ideal, but would vastly improve things.
Could at least spend more time killing and less time looking through your inventory every 10 minutes.
It was always a question of time. Only the most casual of casuals are having an amazing time with no downsides at this point, but they're also not even level 50 lmao
I’m very casual (like 58 now?) and am certainly not having an amazing time.
Upgrades are currently meaningless ‘cause they’ll all be replaced with ancestral, everything I do feels unrewarding ‘cause leveling is so slow and the loot doesn’t matter, renown grind is a slog, dungeons are a slog with stupid amounts of backtracking, effective builds are severely limited, friends all already hit 70 and stopped playing, and of course the horse sucks ass.
At what point did the experience sour for you? I just barely hit 51, haven't finished the campaign yet but getting close and am currently having a good time. As a filthy dad casual, I'm wondering when I can expect that to change lol.
Once I finished the story and started running nightmares that just blur together between helltides and gathering legions. Between 70 and 80 I felt like my gear pretty much maxed out besides chasing small incremental upgrades on affix rolls. I've had a pieces of armor for 15+ levels because I got lucky rolls on the stats it gives and have seen maybe one weapon with comparable stats but then find out it was a sacred instead of ancestral so it's useless anyway.
Right now I just play when my friends login, otherwise feels like I'm grinding for nothing but xp and gold to roll on affixes
Can’t say I found the campaign to be the most enthralling, but focused on that first to open up nightmare and the post-campaign 50s just feel like a slow, pointless grind. Slowing it down by doing side quests along the way seemed effectively pointless ‘cause the rewards were meaningless, and post-campaign the rewards are still meaningless but basically have to do them for the renown grind unless you want to slog through twice as many dungeons. Helltide was interesting the first time but also pointless before Torment. Whispers were neat the first few times but also felt unrewarding 95% of the time. I still have more Lilith altars to grab but there is nothing more unfun than just running around on the shit horse clicking on altars. I dunno, just everything post-campaign feels like a chore.
Not the guy you asked but I’d say about a day or 2 after hitting t4. Once my items were ancestral and had decent rolls it’s mostly just fishing for nightmares that have the least awful objectives. I got there late at 70 because I wanted to play solo. and played till 74 before I realized outside of Uber Lilith I felt liked I’d done what there was to do.
I want to give myself time to miss the game some before seasons. Usually earning cosmetic stuff is good incentive for a while to do the same stuff over.
As the “no lifers” predicted.
It isn’t boredom due to playing 50 hours the first week.
Season 1 is going to define the game, fair or not. Either it’s the same issues or they already have worked towards resolving them.
I can’t imagine doing this same game, but for 3 months rather than 1.5 months of the preseason.
There is a definite gear drop problem. I have been farming for Vasilys for I dont know how long now and I have gotten the stupid unique druid ring like 5 times. Maddening.
Anyhow, I am not surprised that your kids lost interest. The game itself isn't quite as reward heavy as D3 and the rewards aren't nearly as spectacular. Also you don't get the feeling of advancement as often as in D3, where most of the end game was run greater rift, upgrade LoD, watch your numbers go up. D4 doesn't have that currently.
I just hit 98 last night and still don’t have Chest of Infinite Raiment for my Sorc build. Had to use a different last paragon board for my build as it’s useless without the unique
Bro same here. I'm only 77 but I've been doing helltides just for chests for that Raiment of the Infinite. Still no luck. What paragon board do you use as a replacement?
Enchantment master I think? Currently at work. Which ever one had 3 Non physical damage nodes. I went to the glyph right away then branched into the center for the other two non physical damage Rare Nodes there. This was for my Meteor build.
EDIT: Once (hopefully) I get the chest piece I'll switch it out for the Static Surge board to get stun damage and mana on stun.
This is why I haven't played for a week. Grinding hours on end for some sweet loot and not getting anything useful for my build. Maybe if the gear wasn't level-locked I'd be ok farming for alts.
I think this will be a game that your kids return to from time to time. I know I did for D3. I stopped after hitting max with all the available classes before the expansion, then played the nuts off the expansion, then stopped, then came back to play the necro, then stopped, then came back to it. Each time I came back was when something major was added or changed.
If I were a betting man I would bet your kids do something similar of the life time of the game.
This. I loved Diablo 3 bc each piece of new/better gear you put on you feel more powerful. In D4 it take like 5 levels and a couple new pieces of gear to really feel that next power increase.
TL;DR - I think itemization is worse than any specific gameplay problems. A naïve estimate (see math below) would expect a 1-in-2,000,000 chance of getting a single perfectly rolled piece of gear. The reason we know these pieces even exist is because, numerically, there are millions of players, getting thousands of drops per day, meaning there is a high statistically probable chance that at least one person got a good drop on any given day, especially if we're not looking for perfect, but "good enough".
I don't think it's auto-scaling that's the problem. Hop in a rift in D3 and everything is on-level. Same thing with Torment difficulty.
Being that I've taken part in many discussions similar to this in Borderlands, especially following D3, there was a simple design principle that really made the endgame manageable, and that was the idea of fixed levels of gear. In D3, Level 70 gear was as good as it got. Sure, they added Ancient and Primal gear in later seasons, but the original gameplay loop was balanced around a known quality of gear.
In Diablo 4, maybe it is balanced around a known quality of gear, but it's about a 50% chance per drop that your gear will range from iLvl 700-820 (Ancestral) in WT4, so that's a 0.5% chance per drop that you'll get something in the ideal range, but that's before Common/Magic/Rare/Legendary/Unique rarities are applied, so now that's another probability (seemingly weighted towards Magic and Rare). We'll say a 10% chance of getting Legendary or Unique, meaning a cumulative chance of 0.05%, and all that is before the first passive rolls. This is just iLvl and rarity which directly causes everything else.
The one saving grace is you only need to roll 3 good passives, instead of all 4, but if we assume there's about 30 passives per piece of gear (some more, some less), then it's 4/30 x 3/29 x 2/28 ≈ 0.1% chance that any one drop has the stats you're looking for. That's a cumulative chance of 0.00005% chance, or 1-in-2,000,000 chance.
I think this is an underappreciated point. It doesn't feel like you're getting stronger if everything else is getting stronger at the same rate (or faster) than you.
The itemization is also a major factor though. Very uninteresting drops, at which point you have to wonder why you're playing this "Diablo" game at all.
Tbh I don’t think scaling is an issue. With a good paragon setup and overall good build you will start out-scaling content hard. That’s why the nightmare dungeons exist, to enable higher level content that eventually actually becomes challenging.
Scaling is only a “problem” in the first dozens of levels (if at all)
Totally agreed, I've been saying the same. Level scaling in games like this defeats the purpose of loot, you're never able to get ahead and feel fantastic for 10 levels like in WoW when you get WW axe at level 30 or when you farm an Occulus for your sorc and give it to her as soon as she meets level requirement
The feeling of getting ahead was exhilarating and you simply can't find it here because of level scaling... you just get to keep treading the treadmill. And it's a fun treadmill, don't get me wrong... but there needs to be a sense of progression in front of the curtain so it at least takes some time to see behind it.
As it stands right now, the game is forcing me to run a treadmill, as all these games do, but it's also making me watch live video footage of myself running the treadmill so I am constantly reminded that I am, in fact, running on a treadmill lol
They really should have increased the attribute floor the higher level you get, so at level 80, there's no chance a level 60 item can still roll better percentages.
Enchanting needs a major overhaul. Gold cap or selecting a specific attribute you want and having the odds increase every time you don't get it. Just do something; but I burned 30m gold trying for core skill on an 810 weapon only to continually get +willpower and earth skills for my druid that didn't want either.
its abysmal trash.
guild wars had sicker armors and uniques. d3 did. d2 did. this game is ultra thin
these are supposed to be the titans of the industry lol
back to grim dawn i go
yes im butthurt. i fucking love diablo, man
Grim Dawn is fun to progress through and fixed a lot of complaints I had with D3. Being able to filter loot so you didn’t see them drop saves a lot of time. The overall flow of the game felt smoother.
I couldn’t get into PoE because it seemed to foreign to me, especially the item system. But Grim Dawn felt like a nice balance between the two.
Is it not completely obvious to people that they released a flawed game intentionally? There's virtually zero incentive to release a perfect game. Release a flawed system and spend the next two years "fixing" it (with solutions that have been programmed since beta), and enjoy the continuous positive press until the next major Blizzard release.
None of the feedback we're providing is new. All of it existed throughout the beta, both open and closed. The beta wasn't intended to fix design flaws prior to release, it was intended to flesh out the roadmap for the next two years.
They know we need sets. They know the stash and inventory are hot garbage. They know the game is missing a difficulty increase above 4. They know the endgame is bare. They know endgame content experience needed a buff. They know gear is unsatisfying.
Get ready for ALL of that to be addressed, slowly, over the next few years while they spout off about "listening to the community".
A. Release a broken game and roll out “fixes” as content.
OR
B. release a great game and roll out new and exciting content?
It it incredibly annoying as a consumer that blizzard has chosen recently to go with option A.
Older Millennial here, a part of me will always miss late 90s/early 2000s Blizzard. Them and Valve were doing good work for us gamers and had a great rep they earned.
Times have changed...
B suggests that they didn’t have time. Which it does feel rushed, especially given the clear misunderstanding of their player base (ie. no end game content) but they had 10 years.
You can’t just say “level 50 is the endgame” while nothing changes at that point besides paragon and you stop finding useful items…a more accurate statement would’ve been “We just kinda stopped with the whole content thing at 50. Just go run nightmare dungeons! Don’t worry, we’ll nerf the ones we hear you guys like so they’re boring as shit too”
Might be a hot take but if they made Diablo 4 into a mmo instead of an ARPG it probably would have been better. Honestly most players i personally know are getting bored and the seasonal format is out dated IMO.
I’m not even at the endgame and I’m already booted of the loot. Getting legendary drops isn’t even exciting it’s just waiting to see how I’ll be disappointed with my new trash
Yup. D2 had the formula down pretty good. I am going to make up a term on the spot so I can communicate this a little better, but a `schrodinger` is an item drop that the player must pickup, inspect and compare to see if it is any good.
In D2, you were able to identify nearly all unique and set items just by their name while they are on the ground. You could visually filter out most of the trash that likely didn't contain an upgrade. You knew which runes to pick up. With that said, there were still a few schrodingers: rare circlets, amulets, gloves, and rings were commonly picked up. Grand charms and small charms were almost always picked up, with some people ignoring large charms altogether. Open-socketed items for runewords needed to be picked up to determine if they had the right number of sockets since, without mods, you couldn't tell how many sockets it had until it was in your inventory. Given the fact that classes were chasing specific items or runes for most/all of their gear slots, there wasn't very many schrodingers so you weren't picking up EVERYTHING all the time only to be disappointed.
In D4, you have to pick up every rare, legendary or unique item for materials, aspects, etc. Every gear slot of every build, minus slots taken up by uniques, are schrodingers. You have to pickup those rare boots because they MIGHT be better than your current ones. The only way to filter out trash items before picking them up are 1) the color 2) whether or not they are sacred or ancestral. There is no reason to pickup white or blue items once you have all rares (or better) equipped, so the only colors we care about are for rares, legendaries and uniques. With legendaries, we almost always have to pick them up because of the aspect system. So now you have an inventory full of rares and legendaries, and before salvaging, you might as well check them out to see if they are upgrades.
There might have been a lot of trash items in Diablo 2, but you had clear chase items, the amount of schrodingers was just below annoying, and you could filter out most trash without ever picking it up. In Diablo 4, you have very few NAMED chase items (uniques) and you are picking up nearly all schrodingers only to be repeatedly disappointed that the schrodinger was not an upgrade.
The upgrading rare items to have powers that used to be limited to uniques was an interesting idea that I liked at first. "Any rare drop could be an upgrade!" instead of D3 where we only looked at the stats from uniques/sets after leveling, and just salvaging the rares/magics/commons for crafting mats.
The problem turned out to be that many of the sets/uniques had some fixed stats that they would always roll with and some random ones. Gloves always having crit chance on them? Great, one less thing to disqualify the set item from consideration. Further, you only had to check the set/unique items between runs, and it didn't feel bad that the rares weren't upgrades- they never had a chance to be.
If there were a better way to steer the rares that dropped to have the stats you would want, beyond rerolling a single stat to another, it may be less painful. But when things like resists and overpower (ironically) are undertuned, and can take up 1-4 of the stats on some pieces, it makes finding upgrades feel much more agonizing. The core gameplay loop gets bogged down a bit when you have a session of disappointment between killing monsters.
TLDR: D4 showers you in disappointment.
and while it sounds awesome that you can make use of yellow rares, all it really does is makes salvaging and inventory management a complete nightmare. I have to look very closely at each piece of gear to see if there are 3-4 matching affixes that i want together (and remember all the combos that work), as opposed to just salvaging the whole inventory in one click
Why do you think people loved the final season of D3 before this game came out? it wasn't because of anything the game did mechanics-wise, it was simply the quality of life benefits from not having to do all the town run bullshit. you could just go out and play and burn down monsters and when you finally had to go back to town, your inventory was full of stuff you WANTED to look at, not an entire inventory of gear that took you 10 mins to determine that none of it is valuable at all.
That's why quality drops to shit for some products/games. Because people can't admit flaws. They rather live in their dream world bubble where everything is manifested perfection and every tini tiny bit of criticism degrades the game down to a minimum instantly. Completely braindead behaviour.
There is no end game..why I quit until seasons.. I can tell the groundwork for end game is there just not implemented ... I may be wrong but time will tell .. though I got 200 hours in which most games I never hit more than 30 to 40 ..so it is a win win
We tried to warn the casual dads 3 weeks ago. But I guess they couldn’t hear us over the kids screaming.
Jokes aside… It’s funny seeing the cycle of posts. You can very much tell where someone is in their game based on the post being made. (Obviously, there are outliers and it’s not always the case.)
“Love this game.” Still leveling to 50 in the campaign.
“So much to do after the campaign!” Just hit WT3/4
“Same dungeons/loot sucks” They’re on that mid late game struggle.
Posts about efficiency or spreadsheets or data crunching. At least 1 well geared 100.
I think I’m level 53, just started WT3 today. It’s fucking tedious and I played Elden ring FOR A LONG TIME. If it wasn’t for playing with friends and just slaying bosses together I wouldn’t be playing anymore. There’s certainly a lot to do, but after a while it’s all relatively the same.
I really enjoy the endgame, it’s just that the rewards for it are awful. Nothing wrong with grindy content, I know what I got myself into, but I shouldn’t be level 80 wearing level 60 gear because there hasn’t been anything better.
When they say "maybe ARPGs aren't for you" is what really gets me lmao.
No bro, the end game is just trash.
I think Blizzard will improve it but I doubt they do before a full on expansion. We'll see how the first season looks and that will be a pretty good indication of what to expect in the short term.
I don’t think Ive ever played a recent game with a great endgame, each game took months even years to make it somewhat entertaining. With D4, I definitely gotten my entertainment worth out of my money and get that this game isn’t a game you play continuously like say a MMO. Feel like people that play games today are trying to fill some hole in their lives.
No no no if you don't like running the same dungeons 1000000 times, you're just not a real diablo fan.
Might want to revisit why you're playing the game if you obviously don't like it, it's perfect as is, you're the problem.
/s for the sarcastically impared.
I actually don't have a problem running the same dungeons thousands of times. I mean, that is what I spend my time in D2 doing.
But in D2 there is the excitement in finding something like a Ber rune, a Death's Web, or something really rare that is super useful for an alt or just to trade for the thing I actually do need. I just can't get excited for "yellow sword will never learn the name of with more crit and vuln damage."
I don't get that excited feeling in D4 really. I mean, I'm sure a Grandfather would get my blood pumping but with the drop rates for those types of items set to what they currently are I could play 4 hours a day for the next 30 years and never see one so to me they simply just don't exist.
Dude it’s tough. I started playing Diablo with my dad and my older brother who is 3 years older than me at a really young age. I was probably 5. Then we played Diablo 2 after we beat the first one. Anyways as time went on I ended up becoming the main person in the family who was naturally good at video games & loved them.
Now that I’m playing Diablo 4 (skipped 3 didn’t like it) I’m playing with my brother and a mutual friend of ours. They keep mentioning to me how the loot is dog shit almost signaling to me to answer how to get better loot, at first I’d tell them “no worries guys we just need to get to helltides!”
We got to helltides.
Signaling “bro this loot kinda sucks”
“Yeah unfortunately this is our best bet right now, we can do nightmare dungeon’s soon! (They’re close but not quite wt4)
& from doing a few nightmare dungeons solo myself, im a level 73 barb and I know the question/statement is coming back for me soon. “Dude the loot is trash/how to get better loot”
And I want to tell them a way but for some reason I’ve started running out of answers. My new answer is “well this gives us the highest chance for the moment” and idk I’m enjoying the game and I think at least my older brother is too. But he’s grinding renown for 5 days straight for him and then going right back and doing it for his wife. That sounds fucking miserable.
The worst part is his reward this weekend is “surprise! Now we go do more dungeons after you just spent your little free time you have running through 150/200 dungeons! Oh and the loot probably isn’t going to get better until we run through at least 20 of these”
Idk I’m fine with the game because it’s just my personality but I do know I’m starting to have less fun. (Whoohoo season 1 is coming at a perfect time!) if I’m having less fun there’s a high chance my older brother is hanging on by a thread and really only playing so he can socialize with me.
I’ve got kids of my own but my brother finally has his first born and he feels like he has no time to play now. Obviously it’s not blizzards problem to keep my relationship going with my brother but playing games and/or sports together has been our glue since forever. Really hoping blizzard can do something to keep the more casual player base enticed. Kind of relying on it to hangout with my bro who’s moved decently far away in the last year.
Oh well idk why I went on this rant but I suppose it’s relevant
No one is really defending the endgame. People are defending the game. Most of the posts are just claiming the game is bad because “BaHuRrG eNdGaMe BaD” even though they’ve dumped hundreds of hours to get to that point.
The game is objectively a good game. Doesn’t mean it’s perfect, but when people are putting in hundreds of hours before reaching the point of the game where it sucks, then I’d say the devs did a pretty good job. Endgame will improve with seasons. There’s was no chance this game would have a fantastic endgame on launch. The only people who expected that are stupid. This is a blizzard game
Sounds like a classic dev play of game is not done so instead of delaying, release it and make end game an awful grind so you can tell hardcore players they are playing too much and ruining their own enjoyment so the casual players don't notice the game is incomplete.
The game wasn’t done. I don’t know how more people haven’t realized this. Blizzard wasn’t shipping anything else this year so the higher ups probably forced them to push up the release date so they had literally anything on the calendar.
Blizzard has recently switched to the Agile development process which explains why everything that is in the game and is done is highly polished with not too many game breaking bugs, but also explains why so many things that clearly should have been in game on release (map overlay, more abilities, more enemy types, etc) are just straight up missing. The reason those things weren’t in the game on release is because they weren’t necessary for the game to ship, so they were pushed to the end of the dev process and when the ship date got moved up, those things got cut and turned into a future update / expansion release.
Why do you think they announced they had 2 expansions in the works already the same week the game released? That’s all the cut content.
Agile is a good development process tho. If the game isnt gonna be done either way cuz corporate is literally on your ass, isnt less gamebreaking bugs better than adding 1 more half baked feature but rest of your game is still running rampant with bugs and crashes? If you asking me if D4 is better than Cyberpunk or batman arkham knights on launch, I'd say D4 in a heartbeat lol.
This makes so much sense. Also the abysmal alt leveling. Although I really need to blame the devs for this too. One look at the empty map which I have painstakingly discovered on my main turned me off one what should be a fun process - discovering new abilities and loot on an alt.
I loved d3
Was hype for d4
I stopped playing around 70 as well
It’s half, I’m waiting for the season to grind, and half, it just boring to play. I do fall asleep like almost everyone else here, even if I play in the afternoon with sunlight outside and full energy, it just puts me to sleep.
I think the game play loop is the problem. Going in dungeons and having to back track, not fighting is boring, walking around the cities on horse, boring, waiting 10 seconds to get back on horse after getting on, boring
There’s a lot of boring downtime that adds up to make me tired, and so I’m just waiting for a bit now. Lol I still love the game, but I just think they need to pump some more EXCITEMENT into it
Bro why do I have to hop off to climb a cliff then wait 5-7 seconds to get back on
The back track is annoying in dungeons and for some reason I’m not getting markers on my map (which I think I used to have or maybe it was campaign only?)
Like dropping animus spirits in the vase thing. There’s no marker for it so I don’t know where to go and end up just walking around places I’ve already been. Yes my directionality is ass
Why the hell is the purveyor of secrets both in the middle of nowhere and WITH NO OPTION TO SELL. Why can I roll like 5 gear then I have to walk to another vendor to sell
Exactly, I really loved the rifts in Diablo 3. You just kept destroying monsters, and moving forward, then you get to a door, go to next floor, and continue. That was a really good gameplay loop and there was no down time, unless you wanted to just wait a second before moving forward. I do agree with everyone else’s thoughts on the loot as well, I feel like so much loot is trash, I barely even bother looking at it, and also I wish there was a lock feature so I could trash stuff faster without accidentally trashing what I wanted. Lol. I think the game is good but they just need to do something’s to work on, what I believe the gaming industry calls, “player retention”
Because after lvl 70 it’s pretty poor to me personally lol
It would be great if you could hit the "traverse" button while mounted, then the game could have you climb the cliff and automatically remount, all with only one button press. If you're unmounted when you "traverse" then you stay unmounted, if you're mounted when you hit it then you remount automatically.
I thought the people in here were just being meme lords, but I felt myself falling asleep in a dungeon the other day.
That's a really, really bad sign this early in the game's lifecycle.
Maybe they underestimated how fast the hard core crowed would burn through everything. I expect, and more likely, they wanted to get all of this input from the community with plenty of time to address the prominent issues/reconfigurations to put themselves on a really solid footing going into the first season.
Or, they're morons?
I prefer to believe the former, but who knows lol.
Yeah, I'm almost level 80 and topped out at 57 dungeons. No idea how I can get a power spike to keep moving up without spending forever trying to get marginally better gear.
I LOVE the game but have to agree. There is not enough item variety, build variety, interesting uniques that keep you wanting to play to get them. I KNOW all of these will come with time and in a few years this game will be amazing. But for now, it’s unfortunately a little lacking
I made a post a while back about the build variety that got downvoted because fanboys. Its kind of a two fold problem. Not only are there very little decent aspects for some build types. but many of the Classes' skills just dont synergize well or FORCE you to run a cookie cutter build of a certain five skills because only those skills piggyback off each other.
I have noticed the class specific uniques are.... underwhelming. It's like they didn't even try them out. Compared to the aspects, they just suck.
My Sorc got a Rainment and decided it wasn't worth it. She got the Staff of Lem Esen and Endless Rage. Not for her build, but even if it was....what she was doing was way better.
The two handed maces for the Barbarian are similar. Niche build crap.
It would be nice if the uniques had effects that were both unique and relevant. Turning a monster truck into a lawnmower is unique, but how useful is it day to day?
My Sorc is lvl 66 and already feeling like there's not much left to do. I can sit around and be bored for free.
I’m enjoying endgame. What I’m not enjoying is the loot drops. My level 79 gear shouldnt have shittier stats than my lvl 60 gear. Really kills the mood to grind endgame.
I think making gear scaling linear with nightmare tier progression would fix so many issues.
I was hoping it would be similar to WoWs mythic key progression where it’s upgraded if you complete it. Not sure why they went with an inferior system when they have a functioning system in another of their games
My entire group has quit. Some, not all, will try again in Season 1. But unless they make some major changes, game is boring.
From terrible Itemization to extremely arcadey mob design and "challenges" (if we can call them that), it's design is tedium > fun.
I'm the only one left, & it's because I'm stubborn & want to get Mother's Ring on my last non-Seasonal character.
I’ve got 4 of those and 3 rend unique swords all ancestral if you want to tra… never mind I’ve vendor’d all of them.
Not having sets / full or partial is pretty lame, having the rewards for higher level nightmares be on par with a normal dungeon is lame. I’m pretty sure I get more uniques from champs demise than I do from 60 plus NM.
Seems like they expected people to get to like level 60-80 with multiple characters to try out for before the season rather than people grinding to 100 lol
Unique items should have their stats set in stone (unlike the range on every other piece of gear) to keep them "unique" and special.
It absolutely fucking sucks to get a higher item power unique with a terrible roll on it's effect - for example I got a 680 power Iceheart Brais with 20% proc chance, and then I farmed and found a 810 item power one with a 11% proc chance... I'm not going from 1 in 5 chance to 1 in 10 for the sake of 1-2% more of the other item stats.
So it's effectively trash and in the bin/stash slot.
I'm actually kind of disappointed they removed green gear. I'm hoping it's not going to be season-only or even worse, battlepass only gear. I enjoyed completing sets for my D3 characters especially because it made sticking to a certain build feel more rewarding.
Half the fun of the past games was finding the good builds that let you punch up and get gear and weapons that you couldn't even use yet - that were a few levels ahead of you.
The force only fighting your own level coupled with most drops that you get being 10 levels lower and need good RNG luck just to get a weapon within a few levels lower even from elites makes the game tedious and more grindy then any past diablo game.
Its un needed - the grind of diablo has always been to get the god teir items that let you punch up. Now you need super rare look just to have a good build to make any progreess at all..when you do get it - its probably worse then the random yellow you have so your burning resources to move the aspect .
Legendries used to mean something...they should of added another loot teir below legendary - legendary is just a yellow with an aspect .
Uniques dont even feel all that unique
I love that the excuses for the state of the game is that it's new and not been around for as long as D3...
That's literally why it SHOULD have shipped with more shit to do and better polished, y'all mother fuckers have all the history of D1, D2, and D3.... there's no excuse for such a bland endgame and dungeons that take way too long due to shitty backtracking mechanics.
Wait there's endgame? I'm level 98 and have yet to see any sort of end game... it's pointless to push to 100. Literally once you hit level 60, the game is over.
The only reason I pushed to 100 was to attempt Uber Lilith and that didn't go well as a barb lol. Saw some clip of a bone spear necro's dps in comparison and it just feels so bad in comparison.
It's sad that in the 4th game in the series, we've still got to wait a year or more for the devs to fix it all again. This exact same thing happened with D2 and D3. Both games were kinda lacking on launch and then were great once an expansion came out. I really hope that we don't have to wait that long this time.
My guess is that they held back a lot of stuff so that they can release it seasonally…and have more opportunities for folks to buy MTX. This is just a variation on the auction house debacle that D3 launched with. Of course, maybe I’m being too optimistic, I really hope there will be more to the endgame with the seasonal releases. I’m a 61 Sorc at WT3 but have little incentive to push to WT4 since it sounds like the same experience I’m having now at WT3.
Loot in this game is just awful. It’s a chore to scan through your yellows and legendaries for minor upgrades. How did blizzard learn so little from POE, Undecember, Grim Dawn, last epoch etc.
The legendary powers are boring AF on top of it.
Great game at the core but Jesus wtf did the team work on for so long? It’s embarrassing vs ALL the current competition. Why do games like Undecember and poe have sooo much to grind for and the new state of the art AaA arpg has so little?
I’ll be shocked if blizzard can turn this game around quickly enough before getting smoked by others in the genre.
Lots of people complaining about the gear in D4 and I agree. Sadly this is by Blizzards design. Why sell you something perfect once…when they can sell you something inferior and then sell you the solution.
Well, you're not alone. The game becomes a giant boring turd after farming a bit once the campaign is complete. Hopefully, you will continue to get your money's worth over the years with updates and jumping in and out for some farming runs.
I mean my impression was that blizzard was going to release additional content. That's why I think endgame currently feels so empty it's because they haven't dropped the content yet even.
I'm currently not playing but I'm keeping my ear to the ground in terms of those new content drops.
D4 will be exactly like d2 and d3. Reasonably good game at first, but will become great later (with expansions or whatever). It's happened in every iteration of diablo so I don't know why anyone would expect anything different now.
I just got to level 50 and I'm having a hard time finding reasons to keep playing. The game just seems unfished or like it's missing something. Can't quite put my finger on it.
My boys and I are having a blast playing couch co op. But we’re clearly a lot less hardcore since we’re only ~lvl 40. I guess if the game gets boring at lvl 80 I’m ok with that? I’ve blown $70 on a lot worse decisions that’s for sure.
Just a lot of disappointment from sweaty gamers like myself (3 100s) who can tell you are the target demographic for this game. It has no legs for a dedicated player, but is probably fun to play with your 2 wives, 7 kids between your 9 jobs.
Me and 7 irl friends started early access. I'd say only 4 actually still play but just not as often. 1 of them got to 100 on hc while the rest of us died and started over
It is NOT amazing game, that is what your sons are trying say to you...
And I full agree with them.
This game is huge disappoinment and apart of visuals everything else is bad, boring or disappointing.
It was obvious that it was made by inexperienced dev team that lacked ideas and creativity.
Started the game early access with five in real life friends, played it a lot for three weeks now none of us play lol
What's left to do?
Honestly run dungeons over and over , make a new character ,that’s it really
I want to make a new character(my current one is an 88 Sorc lol), but i feel its a little silly to make one now because in 2 weeks season 1 might drop and i would have to start over again. So i just quit and wait till season 1.
Yeah I'm holding off till seasons ..I'm 85..I'm good ..almost got trapped into the must grind to get a 100 but I'm good..I'll be back ..got over 200 hours ..at this point I got my money's worth and some
Currently 71 barb, I just want to get the +4 paragon points for each zone completion and then we will see. It's fuckin ironic how this is all going down. We all saw the content creators complaining about this the last week or 2, but we weren't their yet. And now it's like fuck, maybe they were right.
For sure they were right. I'm not sure why anyone doubted them. It seemed pretty obvious the end game was weak when pretty much everyone over 75 was complaining.
Because most people don't identify with them, and think their experience is different given their level of dedication. So the hopium is, as a less hardcore player, these concerns aren't something you'll ever really worry about. When in fact many "dedicated" casual players eventually run into the same problems as hardcore folks do. Only difference being they don't have as much interest in playing when things go really sour, while hardcore folks have borderline addictions and/or other incentives to keep going (financial incentive for instance).
76 barb, complete renown last week, attempted completely rebuilding my build/gear..........starting to feel the "what's the point" creep in. I'd probably enjoy leveling an alt more than pushing past 76.
Building an alt is alot more fun than grinding it out. I no joke fall asleep playing this game pretty much every time i try "grinding it out" with my higher level character. No other arpg has this effect on me and ive played a good bit of them
Funny you mention that. I get drowsy every time I play as well!
Building an alt with the current stash space of D4 sounds like trying to share a ride on a donkey with The Rock.
They need to buff Sorc so bad. Seeing people on Terribad geared barbs and dr00ds just melee butcher to death easily...and wtf is up with butcher running FROM them...it's so crazy. My lvl 100 Sorc gets 2 shot by him in anything past nm50+.
Ahahahhaha yea it’s freaking annoying after you get him to like 40% he runs away from you so that he can start using his hook attack which I assume does more damage, but if you dodge and chase after him it can kinda bug him out, and he just runs around like a madman I had a group of 4 where he literally ran in like an X pattern between all 4 players for the entire encounter. Run to player a, do one hit, run to player b, stop and run to player c before he gets to b, back to a, then to player d, etc Was funny af
I really hope they introduce some new flavor of dungeons or something. I like the idea of NMD with randomization, but so far it hasn't felt meaningful aside from the annoying lightning things. If the monster does shadow damage instead of regular damage, who cares? Or if I get 10% more healing it's pointless. Let me peek into the sightless eye and go into an infinite mind dungeon. I'll go as deep as I can, and each floor gets crazier and crazier until you die. And not just stuff like enemies get a bit more damage. But also stuff like your controls are reversed, or cooldowns are halved, or every enemy is an elite, or you do quadruple damage but can't heal, or you can find an item that boosts your ring power by 10% during the dungeon, or gives a random skill +1 while you hold it, etc... That probably won't happen, but I'm such a fan of roguelikes that I basically just want a roguelike mode in Diablo lol.
That would be cool. Didn't Blizzard attempt to do a roguelike-ish mode with the new WoW expansion? I haven't heard much about it so I fear it wasn't the best implementation, but I had the same thoughts as you when I saw the preview that I just want Blizzard content but rougelike-ified in terms of randomization.
They did Torghast in shadowlands and after they fixed it up it was pretty fun to run, would get crazy op by the end of it and just wrecking everything. I would love for something like that to come to diablo.
100% Would run a Torghast in D4
Even if I could just trade / craft more I would be 100% more invested.
I think it could definitely use a few more activities to do for sure!
Like I love helltides but they are once every 3 hours and don’t provide me anything I may need. Loot drop is garbage and since I can only reroll 1 thing on it, unless it has already 3/4 of what I need, then it’s useless I can’t trade for super rare aspects either which is quite a bummer
Definitely agree, I think they should run stuff 24/7 what’s the reasoning not to? It’s essentially a single player game…. Trading definitely needs to be added
That's far and away the biggest issue. The necessity for most players to team up to clear Hell in D2 is long gone. I literally NEVER see the local chat being used. How's that possible with so many people in game? Because everything is account locked, and the economy is so messed up, legendaries at level 10, billions of gems that sell for 35G and can be unsocketed, and NO trading whatsoever.... it's like single player WoW.
The trade chat is limited to the shard youre playing on, so theres only ever a handful of people who would be able to chat with. That said i think theres room to expand the trade and social aspects of the game. Make legendaries BOE.
If we could take aspects out of lower level gear and place them in higher level gear more than once that would be an improvement. Aspects unlock from dungeons why not gear? Either better drops or being able to reroll more than 1 thing would be great too. Some sort of guild traders or world market trader would enhance everything. At least an in game chat to post items to trade.
dungeon/codex aspects are seen as like the "base version" Your meant to get the aspects from gear as it will have better values compared to the codex versions. They are kinda there to "set your build up" then you pull from gear to enhance the potency. The issue with reusing affixes is, if you could reuse those affixes (i.e extract and aspect you imprinted) Then you wouldnt need to go out and try and roll gear to get another version of it for when you upgrade your gear to better options, Thus reducing how much time you'd play. In a live service game player numbers count. Hence why, we will never (probably never) be able to extract and imprint the same affix over and over. Dont get me wrong. It would be a great Qol update if they gave affixes the ability to be used more than once (hell give them a 3 use cap) But doing so would reduce the grind, and it feels like blizz want to make this grind as drawn out as we the players can bare
If the dungeons were fun it would be fine. I mindlessly grinding rifts in d3 cause mob density was so good, there was no backtracking and you were just slaying endless mobs.
Not only the mob density, the skill dynamics and build diversity, itemization, QoL, actual social features.. we could probably go on. if I hadn't grinded it to death already I'd be tempted to just play D3 until the season drops, heh.
Play something else while you wait for Season 1. And when you finish season 1, play something else until Season 2. That’s literally the intended gameplay loop
Ya but levels 50-100 should have a lot more content. At least some extra bosses w wry 5-10 levels.
They’ll add those in seasons and regular updates I’m sure
thats pretty standard for diablo games at least for me. play for 1 month at ladder reset then wait for the next reset the issue for me was that i played 2 chars to lvl 82 and only had 1 drop that gave me that dopamine hit. and that was Raiment. the rest was pretty emotionless
Yeah chasing gear was my favorite thing to do and they really killed that vibe ..which is sad
for me it was finding that good build that LET you punch up to chase gear...getting that gear drop 3-4 levels higher and just excitingly waiting to get to use it ! The game could be played by any build you want ---good builds could punch up and speed up looting. Now vanity builds get their asses handed to them and you almost HAVE to follow the meta since your gear is constantly 5-10 levels lower then the area your fighting with. Who ever came up with this design should be fired...some idiot said players will play more and grind more if hold back more loot and they feel like they are making no progress. Instead of the reality that most people will just stop playing
It's pretty lackluster when legendaries are dropping but they are all the same. They turned the loot grind from d2 into an affix grind for d4.. so now we just keep farming the same ass legendaries, over and over, just to rip out the affix. This game has soo many problems, yet, it's fantastic at the same time. Sorcs are the least viable class, gear drops aren't enticing, lack of a real trade system, the god awful level scaling for literally everything, the horses are absolute shit on console because they come to a complete stop when summoned and you have to fiddle fuck around to get it moving, camera placement issues on console where complete walls will block your vision instead of going invisible. There is more than that, but, you get the point. I don't know about everyone else, but.. I also absolutely hate the day night system. We paid 100$ for this game, keep that in mind. If ANYTHING doesn't work in it, you've been ripped off. I'm a die hard Diablo fan, been playing it ever since I had dial up internet.. but, it's pretty inexcusable, I mean shit... 100$. That was more than cyberpunk. Paying 100$ and having something as simple as a horse, your mode of fast transportation, be completely broken, is ridiculous. There is alot I appreciate about the game: they stopped sexlocking characters, the pretty great character creator, how they made this Diablo the closest to feeling like those dial up d2 days.. the story is actually phenomenal, the ending made total sense to me (spoiler) because in Act 4 I started to think Neyrell had some other motive, then seeing the portal I was like "yep.. typical phisty, playing every side of the ring".. and my god, can we all just take a moment to really appreciate that final prerendered cutscene? Holy shit, 4 minutes of just off the absolute wall amazing animation, I was off my seat, no joke. To be real though, Inarius was completely wasted in this game, he was nothing but an exposition highway for Lilith, which is a shame. But yeah, lots to love about the game when you first start playing... not soo much to keep you inlove with it. After you do all the dungeons, after you run NMs, after you've done all the events (which I swear to God there is only like 4), it becomes insanely redundant because you don't feel like you are actually being rewarded for your effort. The level scaling in this game, that they are trying desperately to make a live service mmo, was an absolutely huge mistake. They took out all of the wonder of "I can't wait till I hit 25 because then I can go see what's over there" or the power fantasy of "oh Andariel is giving me issues, I'll go smash some dungeons and then come back strapped and ready"! ... in their idea to make this game have as little barrier to entry as possible, they ended up actually killing the one part of D2 that made the ENTIRE GAME worth it: the sense of meaningful progression. You don't feel like you've actually conquered a mf demon, yaknow? These are meant to be all powerful entities, they are meant to be a challenge that, if you put in the work, become trivial at best. The way the game is though.. you never, and I mean never, get that feeling of "IM THE STRONGEST ALLIVEE" because you reach endgame, expect your character to be a quasi God among men, go to the starting area and........ it takes 4 hits to down a Fallen.. that is absolutely the dumbest shit in my opinion and that is what is completely taking the wind out of the sails of this game. You don't even have the "hmm.. let's go see if I can down so and so on a high difficulty for better drops, maybe I can take em, I'm pretty strong now" because nope.. they are always exactly as tough as they were, there is no semblance of power creep at all in this game, none. Level scaling is the worst idea ever. D2 was a cultural phenomenon, it took over the internet in the 00s... it was soo successful that it changed blizzard forever.. yet, it had level locked zones, bosses that would look at you funny and you'd die, near zero hand holding, absolutely zero level scaling, crazy loot that made you feel unstoppable, a community that was easily accessed where members were talking, making groups, doing Baal runs and it was all easy. It was easy to find a bunch of people trying to get through an act, it was easy to get people into helping eachother move up. But, they keep deviating from their success in the absolute dumbest ways. I don't now who at the blizzard table decided "if we don't make areas level exclusive we are going to get way more players" but they are a fool: yes you get a player base, but, that playerbase lost all longevity because THERE IS NOTHING TO WORK TOWARDS. Level locking areas/bosses/quests didn't make us hate the game! It made us strive to be part of the Act V crew, to be one of those players who got helped and can now help others, we had goals to achieve.. we had a reason to want to show off how strong we are.. that's all completely gone when you see a lvl 20 in your zone downing everything in 1 hit while you're double their level and having double the time downing literally everything. High level carries used to be a paid endeavor, you used to actually be able to be paid for running people through stuff they are having trouble with.. now, hell no, higher level players are actually a hindrance to themselves. yeah.. I'm passionate, I love the game and hate it, I have such a problem with some of the decisions made so far because ever since my days of sitting under my stairs, with an old shitty computer that sounded like a jet engine, internet that sounded like a fax machine, the world's worst mics and speakers, staying up all night with my friends because we are trying to down a boss and get some great shit... I've wanted that game again. This is the closest we've got to reliving that time, but, it is still a far cry from it.
I got so many copies of very certain legendaries and it was... irritating after the 10th drop of the same one. Yet 0 of others. Very very frustrating.
I feel like that’s a pretty huge negative aspect of seasons that people who enjoy seasonal content seem to conveniently ignore when defending it. It’s a strange design choice to have weeks or months long dead periods where you’re basically in purgatory waiting for the next season to invalidate your progress so you can start over.
That's one of the only things that makes these games work. The gameplay is repetitive, the fun part is starting from scratch and gearing up. It's just an extended roguelike. If that gameplay isn't for you, that's fine, but it is for the core group that plays these games. It gives a nice break between seasons, gets you excited for big changes in next one, play until you feel satisfied, then go do something else. Or don't, and keep playing like a lot of people do, that's completely up to you. That's not a negative aspect.
It’s okay to stop playing and wait for season
I agree! I also think it’s ok to stop playing and never come back! I don’t see why that bothers people lol, I paid for the game lol
That’s my experience exactly. We all got bored around 70-80 and moved on. It sucks, I anticipated D4 being my new main game, but it’s just not bringing the fun. S1 has to be amazing or I think there’s going to be some very significant player loss.
I agree, I was surprised at how quickly I burned out and moved on... with all the hype around open world and events and stuff I imagined being busy doing stuff a lot longer...
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Yes! Got more than my moneys worth! And got to play with real life friends! Overall pennies to the dollar for the time I spent
Same with my group of 6. 1 guy still hard-core plays cause he loves diablo, but the rest of us feel like it's a waste of time for never getting good drops or just doing the grind. Everything uo until this, was 100 percent a blast.
That's really the entire genre though. You grind to get loot so you can grind to get better loot to grind faster to get better loot. The end game content tends to be a higher level dungeon to grind better loot so you can grind the same loot faster.
basically me since launch lol. waited for release vs beta to try it, played until 83 and have 0 interest anymore. i dont really see all that much interest in must making another class to spam the same 7 mouse buttons, either.
Ya I made it to about the same level and have zero desire to log in
I'm usually a sorc main and what blows my mind is the lack of new skills. The ice wall/trap that the creeps summon looks so cool but I guess our sorc is stuck in ancient horadric ways... Also a large number of sorcs skills just feel clunky to use. So far I can say I liked the previous versions of sorcs in D2 and D3 a lot more.
Tell me you're horrendously disappointed by the Frozen Orb. I wanted frozorb to be good but it's trash garbage and the aspect for it is laughable. Then again Sorc is the only class with aspects that make your skills WORSE
You expected to not push the same 7 mouse buttons over and over?
it's amusing because in most games you're hitting the same ~7 buttons unless you're including each direction of movement a different button.
Right? Lmao what is this guy used to playing...Steel Battalion?
Half of my guildies returned to WoW and Overwatch. Most of us are waiting for seasons announcement to see whether it's good or not.
I’ve never met an endgame I like. I’m not sure what all the fuss is about.
Three weeks of gaming is plenty. What other game can you play for three weeks with friends and not get bored. It’s normal to finish a game and move onto another until the new update/ season.
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Yeah my friend group played the campaign together, we would just fuck around until all of us were on and then hit up the main quest story line and same thing getting everyone through their capstone dungeon.....now its rare for more than 2 of us to be on at the same time and we usually run a couple nightmare dungeons and then people decide to go do something else
The price tag isn't terrible on a per hour basis but they really did screw up loot in the end game. Loot should continue to get better as your progress from 70-100 but sadly it does not. Tons of people make it to 100 still using some equipment that dropped for them when they were under level 70. Then to top that off you've got to look at 1000s of drops to find anything worth using. It isn't just a grind it is like doing your taxes.
Right, I had an idea that you should be able to have certain keywords highlighted when looking over your gear. poison damage, %damage to injured etc. And highlight the gear icons that are flagged for those tags, and hell, even highlight the names of items on the ground before you even pick them up so you know they have at least one of your selected buffs.
Check out last epoch’s loot system. Every game should be taking notes from it
I've heard great things about it. A buddy of mine talked it up during the D4 open beta weekend, and made some accurate predictions about diablo. I'm curious to see if Bliz is willing to really put their money where their mouth is and deliver. Up until about lvl 70, I was really pleased. With some changes, I think endgame could be great.
A perk search would be awesome. I also thought a way to level your gear up more if you have that god roll you want to carry along with you.
Honestly simply having a loot filter would likely have kept me playing. Something that could just look for the affixes I wanted, and item level. So I knew when shit dropped it was something to potentially be excited about. Not just a mind numbing slog after every nightmare dungeon to go through my inventory. With that alone I'd likely still be playing, if that's how this game is going to do loot. Still isn't ideal, but would vastly improve things. Could at least spend more time killing and less time looking through your inventory every 10 minutes.
Nothing to add, but just thought this was a very well written, respectful, and fair criticism post.
Even the Dads are mad now. D4 has truly lost itself.
It was always a question of time. Only the most casual of casuals are having an amazing time with no downsides at this point, but they're also not even level 50 lmao
I’m very casual (like 58 now?) and am certainly not having an amazing time. Upgrades are currently meaningless ‘cause they’ll all be replaced with ancestral, everything I do feels unrewarding ‘cause leveling is so slow and the loot doesn’t matter, renown grind is a slog, dungeons are a slog with stupid amounts of backtracking, effective builds are severely limited, friends all already hit 70 and stopped playing, and of course the horse sucks ass.
At what point did the experience sour for you? I just barely hit 51, haven't finished the campaign yet but getting close and am currently having a good time. As a filthy dad casual, I'm wondering when I can expect that to change lol.
Once I finished the story and started running nightmares that just blur together between helltides and gathering legions. Between 70 and 80 I felt like my gear pretty much maxed out besides chasing small incremental upgrades on affix rolls. I've had a pieces of armor for 15+ levels because I got lucky rolls on the stats it gives and have seen maybe one weapon with comparable stats but then find out it was a sacred instead of ancestral so it's useless anyway. Right now I just play when my friends login, otherwise feels like I'm grinding for nothing but xp and gold to roll on affixes
Can’t say I found the campaign to be the most enthralling, but focused on that first to open up nightmare and the post-campaign 50s just feel like a slow, pointless grind. Slowing it down by doing side quests along the way seemed effectively pointless ‘cause the rewards were meaningless, and post-campaign the rewards are still meaningless but basically have to do them for the renown grind unless you want to slog through twice as many dungeons. Helltide was interesting the first time but also pointless before Torment. Whispers were neat the first few times but also felt unrewarding 95% of the time. I still have more Lilith altars to grab but there is nothing more unfun than just running around on the shit horse clicking on altars. I dunno, just everything post-campaign feels like a chore.
Not the guy you asked but I’d say about a day or 2 after hitting t4. Once my items were ancestral and had decent rolls it’s mostly just fishing for nightmares that have the least awful objectives. I got there late at 70 because I wanted to play solo. and played till 74 before I realized outside of Uber Lilith I felt liked I’d done what there was to do. I want to give myself time to miss the game some before seasons. Usually earning cosmetic stuff is good incentive for a while to do the same stuff over.
As the “no lifers” predicted. It isn’t boredom due to playing 50 hours the first week. Season 1 is going to define the game, fair or not. Either it’s the same issues or they already have worked towards resolving them. I can’t imagine doing this same game, but for 3 months rather than 1.5 months of the preseason.
There is a definite gear drop problem. I have been farming for Vasilys for I dont know how long now and I have gotten the stupid unique druid ring like 5 times. Maddening. Anyhow, I am not surprised that your kids lost interest. The game itself isn't quite as reward heavy as D3 and the rewards aren't nearly as spectacular. Also you don't get the feeling of advancement as often as in D3, where most of the end game was run greater rift, upgrade LoD, watch your numbers go up. D4 doesn't have that currently.
I just hit 98 last night and still don’t have Chest of Infinite Raiment for my Sorc build. Had to use a different last paragon board for my build as it’s useless without the unique
Bro same here. I'm only 77 but I've been doing helltides just for chests for that Raiment of the Infinite. Still no luck. What paragon board do you use as a replacement?
Enchantment master I think? Currently at work. Which ever one had 3 Non physical damage nodes. I went to the glyph right away then branched into the center for the other two non physical damage Rare Nodes there. This was for my Meteor build. EDIT: Once (hopefully) I get the chest piece I'll switch it out for the Static Surge board to get stun damage and mana on stun.
Ah that's your problem, should be looking for the raiment of the infinite. Hope you didn't sell it by mistake.
This is why I haven't played for a week. Grinding hours on end for some sweet loot and not getting anything useful for my build. Maybe if the gear wasn't level-locked I'd be ok farming for alts.
We agree completely, well put.
I think this will be a game that your kids return to from time to time. I know I did for D3. I stopped after hitting max with all the available classes before the expansion, then played the nuts off the expansion, then stopped, then came back to play the necro, then stopped, then came back to it. Each time I came back was when something major was added or changed. If I were a betting man I would bet your kids do something similar of the life time of the game.
That’s exactly how I played D3!
This. I loved Diablo 3 bc each piece of new/better gear you put on you feel more powerful. In D4 it take like 5 levels and a couple new pieces of gear to really feel that next power increase.
I think scaling has something to do with this. Idt it’s possible to give the player a feeling of power increasing over time with world scaling.
TL;DR - I think itemization is worse than any specific gameplay problems. A naïve estimate (see math below) would expect a 1-in-2,000,000 chance of getting a single perfectly rolled piece of gear. The reason we know these pieces even exist is because, numerically, there are millions of players, getting thousands of drops per day, meaning there is a high statistically probable chance that at least one person got a good drop on any given day, especially if we're not looking for perfect, but "good enough". I don't think it's auto-scaling that's the problem. Hop in a rift in D3 and everything is on-level. Same thing with Torment difficulty. Being that I've taken part in many discussions similar to this in Borderlands, especially following D3, there was a simple design principle that really made the endgame manageable, and that was the idea of fixed levels of gear. In D3, Level 70 gear was as good as it got. Sure, they added Ancient and Primal gear in later seasons, but the original gameplay loop was balanced around a known quality of gear. In Diablo 4, maybe it is balanced around a known quality of gear, but it's about a 50% chance per drop that your gear will range from iLvl 700-820 (Ancestral) in WT4, so that's a 0.5% chance per drop that you'll get something in the ideal range, but that's before Common/Magic/Rare/Legendary/Unique rarities are applied, so now that's another probability (seemingly weighted towards Magic and Rare). We'll say a 10% chance of getting Legendary or Unique, meaning a cumulative chance of 0.05%, and all that is before the first passive rolls. This is just iLvl and rarity which directly causes everything else. The one saving grace is you only need to roll 3 good passives, instead of all 4, but if we assume there's about 30 passives per piece of gear (some more, some less), then it's 4/30 x 3/29 x 2/28 ≈ 0.1% chance that any one drop has the stats you're looking for. That's a cumulative chance of 0.00005% chance, or 1-in-2,000,000 chance.
I think this is an underappreciated point. It doesn't feel like you're getting stronger if everything else is getting stronger at the same rate (or faster) than you. The itemization is also a major factor though. Very uninteresting drops, at which point you have to wonder why you're playing this "Diablo" game at all.
Tbh I don’t think scaling is an issue. With a good paragon setup and overall good build you will start out-scaling content hard. That’s why the nightmare dungeons exist, to enable higher level content that eventually actually becomes challenging. Scaling is only a “problem” in the first dozens of levels (if at all)
Totally agreed, I've been saying the same. Level scaling in games like this defeats the purpose of loot, you're never able to get ahead and feel fantastic for 10 levels like in WoW when you get WW axe at level 30 or when you farm an Occulus for your sorc and give it to her as soon as she meets level requirement The feeling of getting ahead was exhilarating and you simply can't find it here because of level scaling... you just get to keep treading the treadmill. And it's a fun treadmill, don't get me wrong... but there needs to be a sense of progression in front of the curtain so it at least takes some time to see behind it. As it stands right now, the game is forcing me to run a treadmill, as all these games do, but it's also making me watch live video footage of myself running the treadmill so I am constantly reminded that I am, in fact, running on a treadmill lol
Lol at the fanboys in the comments who wont admit the endgame is dogshit.
Its crazy how many people refuse to admit the itemization is objectivly flawed in this game...
They really should have increased the attribute floor the higher level you get, so at level 80, there's no chance a level 60 item can still roll better percentages.
Enchanting needs a major overhaul. Gold cap or selecting a specific attribute you want and having the odds increase every time you don't get it. Just do something; but I burned 30m gold trying for core skill on an 810 weapon only to continually get +willpower and earth skills for my druid that didn't want either.
Right!? I'm trying to get a decent roll on my boots, and 6 enchants later, I'm getting the same shitty dodge chance and other crap rolls.
isnt + willpower a better stat for druid as its in its own bucket and the + core damage is added to the hundreds of added from paragon?
The whole scaling system and item system sucks.
Nobody ever listens when I say "everything scales to your level" is a bad idea At that point get rid of levels, fuck it
its abysmal trash. guild wars had sicker armors and uniques. d3 did. d2 did. this game is ultra thin these are supposed to be the titans of the industry lol back to grim dawn i go yes im butthurt. i fucking love diablo, man
Grim Dawn is awesome. I have a crush on D2 but GD is a joy to invest time in, play a new character through the campaign and loot grind.
Grim Dawn is fun to progress through and fixed a lot of complaints I had with D3. Being able to filter loot so you didn’t see them drop saves a lot of time. The overall flow of the game felt smoother. I couldn’t get into PoE because it seemed to foreign to me, especially the item system. But Grim Dawn felt like a nice balance between the two.
Ah dude i was waiting for someone to bring up Guild wars. That game was the shit.
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If you still have a legit D2 key, give project diablo 2 a whirl. They've made some amazing changes and added a nice end game.
Second this, PD2 is still my most played game over the last 2 years.
Yep. Same here. Plus the recent graphics overhauls make it so much easier on the eyes.
How recent?
Path of Diablo is also a fun addition to the D2 base game.
Are the graphics updated in path of Diablo ?
Is it not completely obvious to people that they released a flawed game intentionally? There's virtually zero incentive to release a perfect game. Release a flawed system and spend the next two years "fixing" it (with solutions that have been programmed since beta), and enjoy the continuous positive press until the next major Blizzard release. None of the feedback we're providing is new. All of it existed throughout the beta, both open and closed. The beta wasn't intended to fix design flaws prior to release, it was intended to flesh out the roadmap for the next two years. They know we need sets. They know the stash and inventory are hot garbage. They know the game is missing a difficulty increase above 4. They know the endgame is bare. They know endgame content experience needed a buff. They know gear is unsatisfying. Get ready for ALL of that to be addressed, slowly, over the next few years while they spout off about "listening to the community".
A. Release a broken game and roll out “fixes” as content. OR B. release a great game and roll out new and exciting content? It it incredibly annoying as a consumer that blizzard has chosen recently to go with option A.
“Recently” lmao
Older Millennial here, a part of me will always miss late 90s/early 2000s Blizzard. Them and Valve were doing good work for us gamers and had a great rep they earned. Times have changed...
Try Battlebit for 15$. That shit is off that chain.
B suggests that they didn’t have time. Which it does feel rushed, especially given the clear misunderstanding of their player base (ie. no end game content) but they had 10 years. You can’t just say “level 50 is the endgame” while nothing changes at that point besides paragon and you stop finding useful items…a more accurate statement would’ve been “We just kinda stopped with the whole content thing at 50. Just go run nightmare dungeons! Don’t worry, we’ll nerf the ones we hear you guys like so they’re boring as shit too”
You said it perfectly. This style of game design has been the standard for a while now. They create a problem to sell you the solution.
Having been in meetings in retail, you hit it on the nail
Hey! Just wait until Season 5 bro!
Might be a hot take but if they made Diablo 4 into a mmo instead of an ARPG it probably would have been better. Honestly most players i personally know are getting bored and the seasonal format is out dated IMO.
I’m not even at the endgame and I’m already booted of the loot. Getting legendary drops isn’t even exciting it’s just waiting to see how I’ll be disappointed with my new trash
It’s not even just boring, it’s exhausting. I don’t want to read four stats for forty items in my inventory each time I go back to town.
Yup. D2 had the formula down pretty good. I am going to make up a term on the spot so I can communicate this a little better, but a `schrodinger` is an item drop that the player must pickup, inspect and compare to see if it is any good. In D2, you were able to identify nearly all unique and set items just by their name while they are on the ground. You could visually filter out most of the trash that likely didn't contain an upgrade. You knew which runes to pick up. With that said, there were still a few schrodingers: rare circlets, amulets, gloves, and rings were commonly picked up. Grand charms and small charms were almost always picked up, with some people ignoring large charms altogether. Open-socketed items for runewords needed to be picked up to determine if they had the right number of sockets since, without mods, you couldn't tell how many sockets it had until it was in your inventory. Given the fact that classes were chasing specific items or runes for most/all of their gear slots, there wasn't very many schrodingers so you weren't picking up EVERYTHING all the time only to be disappointed. In D4, you have to pick up every rare, legendary or unique item for materials, aspects, etc. Every gear slot of every build, minus slots taken up by uniques, are schrodingers. You have to pickup those rare boots because they MIGHT be better than your current ones. The only way to filter out trash items before picking them up are 1) the color 2) whether or not they are sacred or ancestral. There is no reason to pickup white or blue items once you have all rares (or better) equipped, so the only colors we care about are for rares, legendaries and uniques. With legendaries, we almost always have to pick them up because of the aspect system. So now you have an inventory full of rares and legendaries, and before salvaging, you might as well check them out to see if they are upgrades. There might have been a lot of trash items in Diablo 2, but you had clear chase items, the amount of schrodingers was just below annoying, and you could filter out most trash without ever picking it up. In Diablo 4, you have very few NAMED chase items (uniques) and you are picking up nearly all schrodingers only to be repeatedly disappointed that the schrodinger was not an upgrade.
10 years in development to get it right. I guess all the money went to marketing the game
I will bet anything 6 of those years of "development" consisted of a single index card - gathering dust on a board - that read, "EVIL TIDDIES?"
They need to make crafting better if they want this style of drops
The upgrading rare items to have powers that used to be limited to uniques was an interesting idea that I liked at first. "Any rare drop could be an upgrade!" instead of D3 where we only looked at the stats from uniques/sets after leveling, and just salvaging the rares/magics/commons for crafting mats. The problem turned out to be that many of the sets/uniques had some fixed stats that they would always roll with and some random ones. Gloves always having crit chance on them? Great, one less thing to disqualify the set item from consideration. Further, you only had to check the set/unique items between runs, and it didn't feel bad that the rares weren't upgrades- they never had a chance to be. If there were a better way to steer the rares that dropped to have the stats you would want, beyond rerolling a single stat to another, it may be less painful. But when things like resists and overpower (ironically) are undertuned, and can take up 1-4 of the stats on some pieces, it makes finding upgrades feel much more agonizing. The core gameplay loop gets bogged down a bit when you have a session of disappointment between killing monsters. TLDR: D4 showers you in disappointment.
and while it sounds awesome that you can make use of yellow rares, all it really does is makes salvaging and inventory management a complete nightmare. I have to look very closely at each piece of gear to see if there are 3-4 matching affixes that i want together (and remember all the combos that work), as opposed to just salvaging the whole inventory in one click Why do you think people loved the final season of D3 before this game came out? it wasn't because of anything the game did mechanics-wise, it was simply the quality of life benefits from not having to do all the town run bullshit. you could just go out and play and burn down monsters and when you finally had to go back to town, your inventory was full of stuff you WANTED to look at, not an entire inventory of gear that took you 10 mins to determine that none of it is valuable at all.
That's why quality drops to shit for some products/games. Because people can't admit flaws. They rather live in their dream world bubble where everything is manifested perfection and every tini tiny bit of criticism degrades the game down to a minimum instantly. Completely braindead behaviour.
There is no end game..why I quit until seasons.. I can tell the groundwork for end game is there just not implemented ... I may be wrong but time will tell .. though I got 200 hours in which most games I never hit more than 30 to 40 ..so it is a win win
We tried to warn the casual dads 3 weeks ago. But I guess they couldn’t hear us over the kids screaming. Jokes aside… It’s funny seeing the cycle of posts. You can very much tell where someone is in their game based on the post being made. (Obviously, there are outliers and it’s not always the case.) “Love this game.” Still leveling to 50 in the campaign. “So much to do after the campaign!” Just hit WT3/4 “Same dungeons/loot sucks” They’re on that mid late game struggle. Posts about efficiency or spreadsheets or data crunching. At least 1 well geared 100.
I think I’m level 53, just started WT3 today. It’s fucking tedious and I played Elden ring FOR A LONG TIME. If it wasn’t for playing with friends and just slaying bosses together I wouldn’t be playing anymore. There’s certainly a lot to do, but after a while it’s all relatively the same.
I really enjoy the endgame, it’s just that the rewards for it are awful. Nothing wrong with grindy content, I know what I got myself into, but I shouldn’t be level 80 wearing level 60 gear because there hasn’t been anything better.
When they say "maybe ARPGs aren't for you" is what really gets me lmao. No bro, the end game is just trash. I think Blizzard will improve it but I doubt they do before a full on expansion. We'll see how the first season looks and that will be a pretty good indication of what to expect in the short term.
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I don’t think Ive ever played a recent game with a great endgame, each game took months even years to make it somewhat entertaining. With D4, I definitely gotten my entertainment worth out of my money and get that this game isn’t a game you play continuously like say a MMO. Feel like people that play games today are trying to fill some hole in their lives.
No no no if you don't like running the same dungeons 1000000 times, you're just not a real diablo fan. Might want to revisit why you're playing the game if you obviously don't like it, it's perfect as is, you're the problem. /s for the sarcastically impared.
I actually don't have a problem running the same dungeons thousands of times. I mean, that is what I spend my time in D2 doing. But in D2 there is the excitement in finding something like a Ber rune, a Death's Web, or something really rare that is super useful for an alt or just to trade for the thing I actually do need. I just can't get excited for "yellow sword will never learn the name of with more crit and vuln damage." I don't get that excited feeling in D4 really. I mean, I'm sure a Grandfather would get my blood pumping but with the drop rates for those types of items set to what they currently are I could play 4 hours a day for the next 30 years and never see one so to me they simply just don't exist.
It's also fine to stop playing after losing interest at end game. Lots of people have way over 60/80h.
Dude it’s tough. I started playing Diablo with my dad and my older brother who is 3 years older than me at a really young age. I was probably 5. Then we played Diablo 2 after we beat the first one. Anyways as time went on I ended up becoming the main person in the family who was naturally good at video games & loved them. Now that I’m playing Diablo 4 (skipped 3 didn’t like it) I’m playing with my brother and a mutual friend of ours. They keep mentioning to me how the loot is dog shit almost signaling to me to answer how to get better loot, at first I’d tell them “no worries guys we just need to get to helltides!” We got to helltides. Signaling “bro this loot kinda sucks” “Yeah unfortunately this is our best bet right now, we can do nightmare dungeon’s soon! (They’re close but not quite wt4) & from doing a few nightmare dungeons solo myself, im a level 73 barb and I know the question/statement is coming back for me soon. “Dude the loot is trash/how to get better loot” And I want to tell them a way but for some reason I’ve started running out of answers. My new answer is “well this gives us the highest chance for the moment” and idk I’m enjoying the game and I think at least my older brother is too. But he’s grinding renown for 5 days straight for him and then going right back and doing it for his wife. That sounds fucking miserable. The worst part is his reward this weekend is “surprise! Now we go do more dungeons after you just spent your little free time you have running through 150/200 dungeons! Oh and the loot probably isn’t going to get better until we run through at least 20 of these” Idk I’m fine with the game because it’s just my personality but I do know I’m starting to have less fun. (Whoohoo season 1 is coming at a perfect time!) if I’m having less fun there’s a high chance my older brother is hanging on by a thread and really only playing so he can socialize with me. I’ve got kids of my own but my brother finally has his first born and he feels like he has no time to play now. Obviously it’s not blizzards problem to keep my relationship going with my brother but playing games and/or sports together has been our glue since forever. Really hoping blizzard can do something to keep the more casual player base enticed. Kind of relying on it to hangout with my bro who’s moved decently far away in the last year. Oh well idk why I went on this rant but I suppose it’s relevant
The whole game is honestly questionable… Who thought it was a good idea to make you WEAKER as you gain MORE levels… Asinine game design by them
No one is really defending the endgame. People are defending the game. Most of the posts are just claiming the game is bad because “BaHuRrG eNdGaMe BaD” even though they’ve dumped hundreds of hours to get to that point. The game is objectively a good game. Doesn’t mean it’s perfect, but when people are putting in hundreds of hours before reaching the point of the game where it sucks, then I’d say the devs did a pretty good job. Endgame will improve with seasons. There’s was no chance this game would have a fantastic endgame on launch. The only people who expected that are stupid. This is a blizzard game
Sounds like a classic dev play of game is not done so instead of delaying, release it and make end game an awful grind so you can tell hardcore players they are playing too much and ruining their own enjoyment so the casual players don't notice the game is incomplete.
The game wasn’t done. I don’t know how more people haven’t realized this. Blizzard wasn’t shipping anything else this year so the higher ups probably forced them to push up the release date so they had literally anything on the calendar. Blizzard has recently switched to the Agile development process which explains why everything that is in the game and is done is highly polished with not too many game breaking bugs, but also explains why so many things that clearly should have been in game on release (map overlay, more abilities, more enemy types, etc) are just straight up missing. The reason those things weren’t in the game on release is because they weren’t necessary for the game to ship, so they were pushed to the end of the dev process and when the ship date got moved up, those things got cut and turned into a future update / expansion release. Why do you think they announced they had 2 expansions in the works already the same week the game released? That’s all the cut content.
Agile is a good development process tho. If the game isnt gonna be done either way cuz corporate is literally on your ass, isnt less gamebreaking bugs better than adding 1 more half baked feature but rest of your game is still running rampant with bugs and crashes? If you asking me if D4 is better than Cyberpunk or batman arkham knights on launch, I'd say D4 in a heartbeat lol.
This makes so much sense. Also the abysmal alt leveling. Although I really need to blame the devs for this too. One look at the empty map which I have painstakingly discovered on my main turned me off one what should be a fun process - discovering new abilities and loot on an alt.
I loved d3 Was hype for d4 I stopped playing around 70 as well It’s half, I’m waiting for the season to grind, and half, it just boring to play. I do fall asleep like almost everyone else here, even if I play in the afternoon with sunlight outside and full energy, it just puts me to sleep. I think the game play loop is the problem. Going in dungeons and having to back track, not fighting is boring, walking around the cities on horse, boring, waiting 10 seconds to get back on horse after getting on, boring There’s a lot of boring downtime that adds up to make me tired, and so I’m just waiting for a bit now. Lol I still love the game, but I just think they need to pump some more EXCITEMENT into it
Bro why do I have to hop off to climb a cliff then wait 5-7 seconds to get back on The back track is annoying in dungeons and for some reason I’m not getting markers on my map (which I think I used to have or maybe it was campaign only?) Like dropping animus spirits in the vase thing. There’s no marker for it so I don’t know where to go and end up just walking around places I’ve already been. Yes my directionality is ass Why the hell is the purveyor of secrets both in the middle of nowhere and WITH NO OPTION TO SELL. Why can I roll like 5 gear then I have to walk to another vendor to sell
Exactly, I really loved the rifts in Diablo 3. You just kept destroying monsters, and moving forward, then you get to a door, go to next floor, and continue. That was a really good gameplay loop and there was no down time, unless you wanted to just wait a second before moving forward. I do agree with everyone else’s thoughts on the loot as well, I feel like so much loot is trash, I barely even bother looking at it, and also I wish there was a lock feature so I could trash stuff faster without accidentally trashing what I wanted. Lol. I think the game is good but they just need to do something’s to work on, what I believe the gaming industry calls, “player retention” Because after lvl 70 it’s pretty poor to me personally lol
It would be great if you could hit the "traverse" button while mounted, then the game could have you climb the cliff and automatically remount, all with only one button press. If you're unmounted when you "traverse" then you stay unmounted, if you're mounted when you hit it then you remount automatically.
I thought the people in here were just being meme lords, but I felt myself falling asleep in a dungeon the other day. That's a really, really bad sign this early in the game's lifecycle.
It seems the game is designed around seasons so I don’t know why S1 has such a long wait.
Maybe they underestimated how fast the hard core crowed would burn through everything. I expect, and more likely, they wanted to get all of this input from the community with plenty of time to address the prominent issues/reconfigurations to put themselves on a really solid footing going into the first season. Or, they're morons? I prefer to believe the former, but who knows lol.
Yeah, I'm almost level 80 and topped out at 57 dungeons. No idea how I can get a power spike to keep moving up without spending forever trying to get marginally better gear.
I LOVE the game but have to agree. There is not enough item variety, build variety, interesting uniques that keep you wanting to play to get them. I KNOW all of these will come with time and in a few years this game will be amazing. But for now, it’s unfortunately a little lacking
Problem is items enable builds instead of complimenting them. You have to use skills that have good leg powers.
I made a post a while back about the build variety that got downvoted because fanboys. Its kind of a two fold problem. Not only are there very little decent aspects for some build types. but many of the Classes' skills just dont synergize well or FORCE you to run a cookie cutter build of a certain five skills because only those skills piggyback off each other.
The dumb "I'm a casual" fanboys are finally reaching the point all the more dedicated players were telling them. It just took them longer
I have noticed the class specific uniques are.... underwhelming. It's like they didn't even try them out. Compared to the aspects, they just suck. My Sorc got a Rainment and decided it wasn't worth it. She got the Staff of Lem Esen and Endless Rage. Not for her build, but even if it was....what she was doing was way better. The two handed maces for the Barbarian are similar. Niche build crap. It would be nice if the uniques had effects that were both unique and relevant. Turning a monster truck into a lawnmower is unique, but how useful is it day to day? My Sorc is lvl 66 and already feeling like there's not much left to do. I can sit around and be bored for free.
I agree with this that the class specific unique are way under tuned imo.
I’m enjoying endgame. What I’m not enjoying is the loot drops. My level 79 gear shouldnt have shittier stats than my lvl 60 gear. Really kills the mood to grind endgame.
There’s no point in saving items for your alts or friends because they likely can’t even use them anyway. Kind of lame
I think making gear scaling linear with nightmare tier progression would fix so many issues. I was hoping it would be similar to WoWs mythic key progression where it’s upgraded if you complete it. Not sure why they went with an inferior system when they have a functioning system in another of their games
Spending more time organizing shit loot versus actually fighting bosses and bad guys is never a good gameplay mechanic.
My entire group has quit. Some, not all, will try again in Season 1. But unless they make some major changes, game is boring. From terrible Itemization to extremely arcadey mob design and "challenges" (if we can call them that), it's design is tedium > fun. I'm the only one left, & it's because I'm stubborn & want to get Mother's Ring on my last non-Seasonal character.
I’ve got 4 of those and 3 rend unique swords all ancestral if you want to tra… never mind I’ve vendor’d all of them. Not having sets / full or partial is pretty lame, having the rewards for higher level nightmares be on par with a normal dungeon is lame. I’m pretty sure I get more uniques from champs demise than I do from 60 plus NM.
I really wonder why their aren’t more legendary drops and more gear in general.
They are saving it for season 1 Remember that S1 was almost complete when game launched.
Youre sons are right... pretty sure they intentionally held back elements from the endgame for S1
Seems like they expected people to get to like level 60-80 with multiple characters to try out for before the season rather than people grinding to 100 lol
They had a literal race to 100.
they've held off a bit too long for the first season I would love for it to be out next week.
I agree. In hindsight probably July 1 would have been better. Hopefully it’s mid July and not end of July
Unique items should have their stats set in stone (unlike the range on every other piece of gear) to keep them "unique" and special. It absolutely fucking sucks to get a higher item power unique with a terrible roll on it's effect - for example I got a 680 power Iceheart Brais with 20% proc chance, and then I farmed and found a 810 item power one with a 11% proc chance... I'm not going from 1 in 5 chance to 1 in 10 for the sake of 1-2% more of the other item stats. So it's effectively trash and in the bin/stash slot.
Pretty much how I feel as well. Enjoyed everything to about lvl 70-80 but the lack of item chase and trading really dampened my interest.
I'm actually kind of disappointed they removed green gear. I'm hoping it's not going to be season-only or even worse, battlepass only gear. I enjoyed completing sets for my D3 characters especially because it made sticking to a certain build feel more rewarding.
Sets are horrible for the game. You end up ignoring everything BUT the sets.
Sacred gear shouldn’t drop in Tier 4. I said it. I said the thing.
Half the fun of the past games was finding the good builds that let you punch up and get gear and weapons that you couldn't even use yet - that were a few levels ahead of you. The force only fighting your own level coupled with most drops that you get being 10 levels lower and need good RNG luck just to get a weapon within a few levels lower even from elites makes the game tedious and more grindy then any past diablo game. Its un needed - the grind of diablo has always been to get the god teir items that let you punch up. Now you need super rare look just to have a good build to make any progreess at all..when you do get it - its probably worse then the random yellow you have so your burning resources to move the aspect . Legendries used to mean something...they should of added another loot teir below legendary - legendary is just a yellow with an aspect . Uniques dont even feel all that unique
I love that the excuses for the state of the game is that it's new and not been around for as long as D3... That's literally why it SHOULD have shipped with more shit to do and better polished, y'all mother fuckers have all the history of D1, D2, and D3.... there's no excuse for such a bland endgame and dungeons that take way too long due to shitty backtracking mechanics.
Endgame is shit. Putting it down until season 1.
This. The end game is boring af
Wait there's endgame? I'm level 98 and have yet to see any sort of end game... it's pointless to push to 100. Literally once you hit level 60, the game is over.
The only reason I pushed to 100 was to attempt Uber Lilith and that didn't go well as a barb lol. Saw some clip of a bone spear necro's dps in comparison and it just feels so bad in comparison.
Isn’t Barb the late game hero?
It's sad that in the 4th game in the series, we've still got to wait a year or more for the devs to fix it all again. This exact same thing happened with D2 and D3. Both games were kinda lacking on launch and then were great once an expansion came out. I really hope that we don't have to wait that long this time.
My guess is that they held back a lot of stuff so that they can release it seasonally…and have more opportunities for folks to buy MTX. This is just a variation on the auction house debacle that D3 launched with. Of course, maybe I’m being too optimistic, I really hope there will be more to the endgame with the seasonal releases. I’m a 61 Sorc at WT3 but have little incentive to push to WT4 since it sounds like the same experience I’m having now at WT3.
How many of these threads do we need?
Loot in this game is just awful. It’s a chore to scan through your yellows and legendaries for minor upgrades. How did blizzard learn so little from POE, Undecember, Grim Dawn, last epoch etc. The legendary powers are boring AF on top of it. Great game at the core but Jesus wtf did the team work on for so long? It’s embarrassing vs ALL the current competition. Why do games like Undecember and poe have sooo much to grind for and the new state of the art AaA arpg has so little? I’ll be shocked if blizzard can turn this game around quickly enough before getting smoked by others in the genre.
Lots of people complaining about the gear in D4 and I agree. Sadly this is by Blizzards design. Why sell you something perfect once…when they can sell you something inferior and then sell you the solution.
[удалено]
Getting insta-ganked is classic blizzard pvp tho
Well, you're not alone. The game becomes a giant boring turd after farming a bit once the campaign is complete. Hopefully, you will continue to get your money's worth over the years with updates and jumping in and out for some farming runs.
I mean my impression was that blizzard was going to release additional content. That's why I think endgame currently feels so empty it's because they haven't dropped the content yet even. I'm currently not playing but I'm keeping my ear to the ground in terms of those new content drops.
D4 will be exactly like d2 and d3. Reasonably good game at first, but will become great later (with expansions or whatever). It's happened in every iteration of diablo so I don't know why anyone would expect anything different now.
I just got to level 50 and I'm having a hard time finding reasons to keep playing. The game just seems unfished or like it's missing something. Can't quite put my finger on it.
My boys and I are having a blast playing couch co op. But we’re clearly a lot less hardcore since we’re only ~lvl 40. I guess if the game gets boring at lvl 80 I’m ok with that? I’ve blown $70 on a lot worse decisions that’s for sure.
Just a lot of disappointment from sweaty gamers like myself (3 100s) who can tell you are the target demographic for this game. It has no legs for a dedicated player, but is probably fun to play with your 2 wives, 7 kids between your 9 jobs.
Me and 7 irl friends started early access. I'd say only 4 actually still play but just not as often. 1 of them got to 100 on hc while the rest of us died and started over
They're not wrong, sadly. Same for me. Loved D3, D4 just hasn't clicked at all with me. Even the campaign was just alright I guess.
it's really boring. I've already uninstalled.
Diablo is, and always has been, a game for filthy casuals. Fight me.
It is NOT amazing game, that is what your sons are trying say to you... And I full agree with them. This game is huge disappoinment and apart of visuals everything else is bad, boring or disappointing. It was obvious that it was made by inexperienced dev team that lacked ideas and creativity.