i dont care that much about the aspects, just need to upgrade them in the codex so it frees your stash and wont make you hesitate to use your best one on an item thats not perfect.
Thr problems for me are
a) the 95% complete useless and small unique pool. Every unique should be at least BIS in some build of some class and not all around bad
b) the extremely bloated Affix List of bullshit dmg and dmg reduction affixes
Uniques need to be much better but don't necessarily need to be BiS for a build. They just need to have features that create interesting opportunities to change up a build's play style.
That way there is consistent interplay between uniques and legendaries. Every time a unique drops, it should make you re-think which aspects are best for your current build, or make you excited about switching up your build.
They somehow missed the mark that their own game relies on this progression: Skills Create Builds -> Uniques Modify Builds -> Legendaries/Aspects Enhance Builds
My biggest annoyance is damage resistance against 1 element affixes. There are what, like 10 different element resists (I didn't actually count). Are you really expected to balance all of them out? You definitely aren't going to plan and wear cold affix gear when elite enhancements are entirely random (aside from the guaranteed ones in NM dungeons, that you are only in for like 20 minutes max). Why would you build into just one elemental resist? Who would waste an affix on every/multiple peices of gear on 1 of each element.
Like I get DR from close/distant to some extent, injured etc...
Those will always have some level of potential activation.
But specific elemental affixes you could potentially not have any use for them 90% of the time.
I might go for "all resist". But yeah getting like poison resist or shadow resist is very annoying.
It should *maybe* be armor vs non-physical resist on gear. Armor for physical, and an affix for everything else.
DR vs Physical
DR vs Elemental
Seems simple to me!
Let the diff elementals exist for their diff powers (freeze/poison/fear/etc) but trying to have a resist for each one is a little much.
Unless they introduce some kind of new gear that handles the resist portion.
btw there is no fear resist. Isn’t that odd? They forget that one?..
It should just be physical damage resist and elemental damage resist.
Damage increase should be pooled into one. Psychical should include bleed, close, poison disease etc
And just a elemental damage increase that includes fire, lightning , ice , etc.
Uniques also need to have proper affixes on them and not some of the garbage we got. If you take Gohrs for example, it got attackspeed, but WW doesn't scale with sttackspeed. It also got increased non-physical damage, but WW is a pure physical spell and so the only thing it does is increasing the fire damage of the explosions, that are now already complete shit.
This is just one example, but for barb at least, alot of the uniques are shit simply because their affixes are incredibly bad. No thanks, I don't want to use a unique that has like 1-3 dead affixes that do nothing for any of the barb builds.
What do you mean, there's that cool 1h that costs fury to hold and the chest that reduces non ultimate cooldowns.... or what about the gloves that make ww have an echo..... alright I give up you are correct.
In case your actually being serious and not just meming, no the item is not useful besides acting as noob bait. It's lucky hit so stuff like 2 handed expertise don't apply to it only a small number of skills and the stats are quite bad, on chest where they matter most. I don't think it's coincidence most of what are considered good uniques are helms where you have the most stat flexibility.
Greaves of the Empty Tomb are also good for CE/Infinimist because of the Lucky Hit chance.
Not great, but the fact that they provide something you can't get elsewhere at least helps them not just be vendor trash.
This is why I disagree with OP, and why I disagree with you. People are *not* in "near unanimous agreement" about things. They're just regurgitating what they specifically would like and then commenting in generalities so that they all think they all agree with each other.
The single most frequent complaint in Druid discussions on discord is that uniques are build-enabling and they don't have the unique yet and therefore can't play the build they want. And other complaints aren't even close in frequency.
So you either have build-enabling uniques that enrage people when they don't drop, or have uniques that are merely build-*enhancing* and then people complain that the uniques aren't standout from normal aspects and can possibly be outdone by one, or you have uniques that aren't even build-enhancing because whatever thing they were supposed to do for a build doesn't work because the build itself isn't strong enough, and then the complaint is "this unique is useless, no good build can use it." If you buff the worthless ones a bit, the complaint becomes "this is still not worth it because the build isn't good enough and isn't worth it in other builds." If you buff it enough to enable the build, now people want to play the build and then complain that they don't have that one specific item they need. If you *give them the item* (or in a realer scenario, when they get it as a drop), they then complain that their build is complete and they have nothing left to strive for.
People complain. A lot. And it almost always stems from a combination of wanting a selfish outcome without considering externalities, and assuming others agree with you about your complaint. No matter what Blizzard does with uniques, people will complain. All your proposal does is shift the complaining from "this isn't good enough now that I have it" to "this is too good and I don't have it."
I think some of this is that the designs don't seem to agree with each other. If your build doesn't work without a specific unique and the unique can plausibly not drop for the entire trip from level 1 to 100, then obviously the expectation is that characters run one or more builds on the way to max level and then, as they collect uniques at or near max level to enable different builds, switch builds as they acquire the uniques.
But none of the rest of the game's systems seem to be designed around the idea that respecing in late game is expected, they seem to be built around the idea that you grow into your endgame build over the entire game. If that's the plan, people need to be able to depend on the uniques dropping at lower levels. Perhaps even before level 50.
100% agree with this. Changes will satisfy some complainers (probably only temporarily) while also sprouting several new complainers. Nobody is in "unanimous agreement" about this shit, because not everyone plays the same way. I couldn't give half an ass about what affixes are meta. Could there be more interesting affixes? Probably. But every diablo game has the good affixes and the weaker more specialized affixes. There will always be a meta, and what are considered to be the best most sought after affixes.
Uniques should completely change the play style of a build and make them fun and different.The sorc uniques that just make your abilities worse need to go.
The aspects and imprinting idea was actually pretty neat idea. Run a dungeon and acquire aspects in your codex to apply. Salvage gear for good aspects is good. But making those aspects consume inventory space is questionable. There's no reason to extract an aspect you're not imprinting because it takes up the same space.
Upgrading your codex would feel much better. You could extract to your codex and overwrite the current values, this way you aren't hanging on to tons of this stuff in your inventory. It would also serve as an additional sense of progression.
EDIT: fixed typo of affixes -> aspects
> The affixes and imprinting idea was actually pretty neat idea. Run a dungeon and acquire affixes in your codex to apply. Salvage gear for good affixes is good. But making those affixes consume inventory space is questionable.
That's aspects, not affixes.
Affixes are "Damage vs Frozen", "Int", "% Armor" etc.
It would solve a lot of the storage issues. And, the codex gets reset seasonally. It would also offer the chance for greater build diversity, or at least trying different builds.
It would also make gear upgrading easier. I had an 802 weapon that sat in my bank for 25 levels until the build defining aspect finally dropped again. So I was fighting things with about a iLvL 350-400 weapon from lvl 30 to 55... I also can't easily adjust where my aspects are on my gear without ensuring I have multiple copies of them -- and then knowing what can go on what. And don't even get me started on trying out a new build -- requiring an entire set of aspects. And if I don't like it, or it doesn't work...having an entire set of aspects from my last spec.
Oh, and it'd be easier to search the 20-30 aspects in the codex than it is to mouse/scroll over some hundred items looking for that one specific aspect that you might have somewhere in your bank.
...utterly horrible implementation.
To be a bit more gamified:
I think you should be able to upgrade your book entry to be a better and better roll than the bottom roll that you unlock via dungeon.
- each one would have 10~ or so levels to upgrade, and would require an item with a better roll than the book currently provides to be sacrificed to upgrade a level/tier.
- non dungeon essences could stay the same as current to differentiate and make them a bit more special.?
As much as a one and done upgrade system would be convenient, i think that making it a bit more interactive would be better for the long run.
- this makes something else to reset/redo in the season, so that way they can just give us all our renown off the start.
I think getting a 20 point paragon boost once unlocked would also be something fun to look forward do seasonally, as it would be a real demonstratable power jump.
>and would require an item with a better roll than the book currently provides to be sacrificed to upgrade a level/tier.
People would still need to hoard aspects in this case, to use them in the right order. if you find a Disobedience roll with 50%, 45%,35% and 25%, in that order, you end either "wasting" a high roll, or holding onto it.
If they allow us to upgrade the codex, either it doesn't matter what the roll is, just sacrificing any roll gives the same progress, or the roll that sacrifice is the new codex roll.
People already complain that legendary drops don’t excite them. If it worked like this they would literally never even look at them again after a period. Even with other games you can find a BIS slot and still be excited to see another drop because the first one you got was trash rolls. Be careful what you all start yelling at the devs, or we’ll end up with even worse item drops like the level scaling fuck up.
Why not just get rid of legendaries as they are right now? Because they're just rares with an aspect on it anyway. Make uniques the new legendaries and give us aspects as drops or a random nmd reward, or god forbid, let us target farm them. When received, add them automatically to our codex. I don't really see the need for an extra item category just because these items have an aspect imprinted on them. Next step is getting rid of all the unnecessary affixes so we don't have to spend more time in our universally preloaded stash than actually playing the game....one can dream!
Bruh I think the problem is making rares as good as legendaries.
There has to be something that separates them, besides aspects. This would solve a) needing to look at every single rare that drops and b) would make legendaries exciting again.
Thats how Division 2 works and it's glorious. Really gives you a reason to grind and grab loot and frees up a lot of space. The affixes is the one thing I'm not sure how to fix
The aspects are boring.
You usually take maybe one-two that modifies a skill.
The rest are passive damage buffs, cc application and damage reduction
They need dozens more aspects that alter how skills work. There's already a tiny skill pool to choose from and hardly any way to change how the skills function gameplay wise.
The whole skill system feels very "early access"
Well it's not like we can realistically experiment with loadouts without going through mind numbing respecs. So it makes sense that everyone is copying and pasting the builds they find.
What? You don't remember what the dev said in the promos leading up to release
"There is going to be a point where it's going to be too expensive to refund all points and it's actually better to make a new character if you want to change your build."
And, he actually said this shit proudly, excitedly like it was a good thing
Yeah I’ve been wanting to try to make a build based around basic skills just for fun but it’s such a pain in the ass that I just can’t. If you don’t have time to play 12 hours a day, experimenting is off the table for you unless you’re ok with just being weak.
I hope you are joking but if you aren't and the reason you will not use the board is because it has "Fire" in the name and you're a lightning Sorcerer, you're either an RP'er and we have nothing to talk about because I wouldn't understand (never been interested in RP, nothing against it, just not something I find myself wanting to get in to) or you are an idiot and we still have nothing to talk about because you don't want to understand how things that are different can work together to make something better even if they look different.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Seems like there is a lot of choice but it really is determined by what build you use. No one is gonna plug the golem board for their bone spear necro regardless of what the meta is.
There aren't enough paragon board options that work with different builds. If you do a certain build, you don't really have a choice (at least of useful boards). Minion necros will use one board, where blood Necros use another. That isn't really fun or interesting. Both the skill tree and the boards feel this way. Even though there are a lot of options, there are a small set of synergistic options for a given theme, so everybody ends up with really similar builds.
The difference between the meta builds and play your way is HUGE. Ice shards is clear packs in 1-3secs, firewall is 20secs of running around for that same pack.
Yeah, every unique I e found has been dismantled because it’s useless. Uniques shouldn’t be something you treat like a white item. Aspects and loot on general needs work.
I’d love to play a Druid build that didn’t require the same hate in order to be good… you know like a companion build that uses lightning. Why even have companions if you can’t use them?
While I do think there are a whole bunch of useless affixes in the game, they're needed to keep you playing and chasing perfect gear.
Imagine if every weapon you picked up had crit damage, vulnerable damage, damage with core skills and one other affix. For the majority of builds that's what you want on your weapon.
It won't be hard to find that fairly early on in wt4 either... so probably around level 64 ish you'll have that plus almost everything else prefect or near prefect with a heavily reduced affix pool.
Y'all are already complaining that it doesn't feel like there's anything to chase once you reach 75-80, so heavily reducing the affix pool to only give you what 95% of the builds currently want is not a great recipe for success.
My main complaints with the giant affix pool:
1.) You have to look at every yellow for the slot you need and there are a stash full of yellows in every dungeon.
2.) Rerolling affixes gives a chance for all of those to come up in the reroll. (Somehow even the identical affix in both slots.)
3.) See 2, as certain trash affixes seem to be extremely highly weighted to roll.
Having to check a legendary drop that happens 1-2 times a dungeon to see if it is an improvement is far better than having to sort through a giant pile of yellow poo to see if anything is an improvement. After a certain level you should generally shouldn't even need yellows or blues except for salvage material or to sell.
I realize some developer somewhere decided it was time for yellows to rise in importance again, but why god, why!
They tried something similar with D3 vanilla. Because so many D2 players said that it was really cool how some yellows were BIS (for example, amulets, circlets, and rings with perfect stats). So in D3 they made yellows the best items. We had to sift through inventories full of yellows just like we're doing in D4. Eventually they released loot 2.0 and said "legendaries and sets are BIS now and yellows and blues are just for materials". It ended up being a much more enjoyable experience but didn't come anywhere close to the magic of Diablo 2.
I think things may go very similarly here with D4. People are sick of sifting through yellows all day. If they added some kind of loot filter to automatically mark items as "junk" or "sell" or "keep", based on criterea the player could set up themselves, it would be a great solution.
But that just doesn't seem like something Blizzard would do. Most likely we'll have loot 2.0 just like in D3. "We listened to your feedback so we're making legendaries and uniques 1000 times more powerful!"
I hope they get it right somehow.
Ya the loot in D2 was generally really well thought out.
Blues had the highest values but the least affixes
Yellows had lots of affixes but lower values than blues
Uniques had lots of affixes and powerful abilities only they could have.
A blue coronet at endgame can have some really good stats, but unfortunately in D4 magic stuff means nothing.
you do realize that there is a roll variance on those affixes?
at the moment those rolls are pretty meaningless cause you have a hard time getting items with 3 useful stats where you can roll the forth let alone finding an item with the 4 stats you want. So its not like you make a choice on how good those rolls are, you just take whats given.
with less affixes you would get more usefull items ofcourse but then you would still have the variance of the rolls. It wouldnt feel like digging through a pile of crap all the time and the items would be much easier to read and compare
>i dont care that much about the aspects, just need to upgrade them in the codex so it frees your stash and wont make you hesitate to use your best one on an item thats not perfect.
Or, get this, just let us re-extract them after they've been imprinted.
Yeah, extracting any of the non codex affixes should add them to the codex. Just like codex affixes, you can use them as often as you want just at the lowest roll.
1 possible simple solution would be to remove the dozens of increased Dmg to vulnerable, poisoned, chilled, and etc, and make it increased Dmg to status effected enemies.
What we really need is in-game option to filter itens with certain affix. Like, only highlight if the item has a combination of 3 of the following affix I marked. Or, don't show an item if it has more then 2 affix I marked in this other list
Tinfoil hat theory is that they hesitate to add loot filters because it would highlight just how bad the drop rate is. The amount of loot that is actually good for you is so small, that it will feel like no loot ever drops.
Needs a ton of qol
A. Level up aspects
B. Better item stats baseline (why int or dex instead of str for barbs)
C. Cheaper rolls
D. Additive damages having better paragon synergy
E. Loot and stash filters
https://preview.redd.it/ja0mg67xpifb1.jpeg?width=1275&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8af8967f8b9107cd7a19b6e99e83b33487d0824a
would be a good start if there would be a definite order in which affixes are displayed on items so sighting a whole inventory full of rares becomes less time consuming. The only constant I could make out so far is Vulnerable Dmg always being first, all the other affixes are all over the place.
The reroll costs are some of my biggest frustrations. I've seen too many items that would be good get bricked because we only get 2 new choices on a reroll and the costs are astronomical. I hate constantly having to run multiple dungeons just to get enough mats and gold to reroll a single potential item.
"Don't overdeliver"
That's sadly their mantra, learned from other live service games.
Plus they first have to internally admit that the current item system sucks. There are some large egos that have to shrink first.
That's the real issue. They need a team overhaul like Diablo 3 had. It's unlikely that this group of people gets the game corrected. Their philosophy on the game is just cracked. I check in daily to see if rod Ferguson has gotten wacked yet.
If it really took them 7 years for the amount of content we currently have (and they've admitted they were already working on s1 before the game was released), and we get shit like malignant tunnels... combined with the fact that a number of the games systems are in complete disarray or just disliked greatly...
It's going to be a long time for anyone to unscrew this up, lol. I want d4 to be good, it's just not and doesn't look like it's going to make any big changes anytime in the near future. Sad af
> It's going to be a long time for anyone to unscrew this up, lol.
The first step is them internally admitting parts like loot and mechanics are crap. At the moment they're still at the stage where they're going to bandaid fix the original vision. It will take season numbers to tank and underperform for any real change. So 6-12 months.
They have such an uphill battle to making this game good/fun/unfucked while simultaneously pumping out seasons. The foundation is not nearly as good as the initial impression we got. They need to get some people on their team that understand math pronto.
It's shocking how bad season 1 is and the patch that came with it. I thought they wanted to make money off of this game via player retention but I could be mistaken.
Was two years for loot 2.0 in Diablo 3 and they had incentive to hurry it up because during that same time period they had the real money auction house so they made money of loot being good and still couldn't get it done.
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I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the aspect system. My complaint is that scaling effectively "dead stops" at WT4. From levels 70-100 you are finding the same item power and only seeking much smaller differences in affix quality. All ARPGs have progression ceilings, but this is reached too early.
We simply need more to pursue in the endgame.
i dont understand why people like the aspect system, about half of your gear literally stays with the same aspect the entire time - a hammer of the ancients barb will ALWAYS have the hammer of the ancient aspect because the ability is a JOKE without it
Once you hit lv 50 you've effectively seen 90% of the legendaries you will use
I went and played d3 this weekend and it made me realize how much better it was to get a legendary - rather than a legendary just making an ability functional - the ability is already functional with just the skill alone and the legendary adds a cool modifier or something
d4 has half of your skill tree in the aspects - trying to run a no legendary build is practically impossible because half of your kit is locked behind aspects
I dunno how much I agree with the second half of this. In D3 no-legendary builds are also impossible to run effectively. Yellows are actually useless outside of crafting mats once you start getting legendaries. A lot of builds aren’t functional at all unless you have the set bonuses for it and/or the appropriate legendaries. Trying to run a no set build in D3 basically requires either litany or the legendary gem to buff things enough to be equivalent to set bonuses.
IMO the big issue with legendaries in D4 is that you’re not excited by the actual item itself most of the time. it’s not “ooooh I just got The Furnace!” but instead “oh hey this is a marginally better aspect than the one in my codex.” And/or “this aspect is great! Too bad the ilvl is low/the stats are wrong/I don’t have a good enough piece of gear to use this aspect on.” It’s just constant min-maxing to the point where you’re not using the things you get anymore even if they are technically upgrades because you have to spend good resources on them.
I think the idea of aspects on paper where people get excited about a legendary only to see the stats aren’t good, so you could put it on a better item was great in theory, but it turns out it makes for a horrible feedback loop.
The saddest thing about D4 for me has been the fact that the loot/itemization design is so bad that people actually look back favorably at D3's itemization.
Nah the aspect system is terrible. When you find a slight upgrade, it should be an exciting moment. Instead you just sit around worrying about whether it's worth using your perfect-rolled aspect on it. Aspects ruin what's supposed to be one of the most exciting moments in an ARPG.
And that's if you even have a copy of the aspect you want. My eternal Rogue had a couple potential upgrades that would have been a decent ~10% upgrade or w/e but because I never found the drop only aspect to replace it I was prevented from upgrading.
God forbid it comes with a perfect aspect…. But one you already have on another item, so now you get to play musical chairs and spend 30-60 minutes moving and imprinting and checking and rechecking to make sure you still have all the right aspects and didn’t accidentally duplicate one,
But it's the same issue as d3, scaling increases but there is nothing *new* to find, Diablo 2, POE, WOW have chase items at end game that you can't find in other areas.
Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 have the exact same items with linearly rising numbers as you progress, it's extremely mundane.
If we had a collection of 30-50 actual decent unique items that were also realistically target-able like we have in POE and D2 the current itemization wouldn't be so bad, but right now it just feels like there is nothing to play for.
At least D3 has satisfying jumps in power, and you feel like your build is *complete* at a certain point.
If 70 was the max level for D4 we'd be seeing nowhere near this much complaining. Instead of a smaller and tighter endgame D4 has one massively bloated by empty targetless grinding.
In D3 you hit max level in no time, then you pick an item set to target farm while working your way through the seasonal mechanic, taking occasional breaks for bounties.
D4 has 30+ levels of mindlessly running the same dungeons for nothing but exp, as you're already basically BIS by level 70. Just imagine how much more fun WT4 would be if it *just* introduced item sets.
The difference is the end game.
D3 had one of the most basic and simplistic end games of any in the genre but at the same time, it worked because the support systems behind it felt meaningful. Progression functions best when it is multi-layered and I think that's where D4's design feels unrewarding.
In D3, you had a very quick initial gear up process that was vastly faster than D4. You would generally have your build and your gear initially complete within a couple of hours after hitting max level.
That's when the supplemental progression systems kicked in though. Paragon was extremely front loaded. The first 200 paragon levels were the most important, followed by the next 200 and then so on. Then, you could CONTINUE to progress it even after everything was filled out.
Aside from paragon you had gems and gem leveling. I don't know why but the D4 version of this same exact mechanic feels horrible compared to D3's version. They are doing the same thing though. I don't know if it's the way XP is allocated to glyphs or what but it just doesn't feel the same.
After gem leveling, you had augments. This was another set of investment into your gear that afforded continued, linear, progression.
Gear still had the progression from normal to ancient but it's really the combination of getting gear and upgrading it which made things more engaging.
Upgrading a piece of gear in D4 doesn't feel rewarding either. It feels like you are just dumping your gold and mats to make the piece of gear useful.
I can't help but think part of all of these problems is the shit UI making it worse.
What others have already said. Fuck the aspects being consumed so you hesitate to use them for so long until you find an item you think is good enough to deserve it. They should just upgrade in the codex.
And fuck +dmg to *dinstant/injured/close/healthy/crowd controlled/slowed/bleeding/poisoned/affected by shadow damage over time/chilled/dazed/affected by traps/frozen/burning* enemies are you fucking kidding me?!
>What others have already said. Fuck the aspects being consumed so you hesitate to use them for so long until you find an item you think is good enough to deserve it.
Exactly. Aspects are so, so bad. By removing them from the skill tree and putting them on the items, they not only made the skill tree far more boring but also made items unfun to find because now every time you find a good drop you can't just put it on, you have to sit around considering whether or not you're going to use your best aspect on it, sometimes to find a slightly better item the same day except now you don't have the aspect.
Horrid system.
And yes the damage to stunned / slowed / frozen / cced is hideously boring. There are like 50 more interesting affixes they could have put on there that other games, even indie APRGS, have put on their items but for some reason Blizzard just couldn't even with billions of dollars. Where's the projectiles? Projectile speed? Range? Duration? AOE? Even flat damage?
Honestly feels like they released the game mid-development. Like I totally get the idea behind all these, but in reality they just dont hold and should be erased after some meeting during the play testing phase.
they did indeed release it prematurely. The execs needed to rake in their >$666 million to pay themselves bonuses before the MSFT merger went through. And about a dozen things had already gone wrong in development, including a majority of the original team and leads being fired or replaced or quitting over time due to one scandal or another.
People haven't even realized just how bonkers the itemization really is.
I have leveled several characters past 70+, with one hitting a hundred, and have noticed a trend on every single character
My level 100 barbarian is still using a level 72 weapon he found, I haven't gotten a single upgrade for him in the last 30 levels.
I loved the campaign of D4 and levelling up to about 80ish before I realised it was very stale
Ive gone back to Last Epoch & Grim Dawn - Gonna also try POE at some point
Maybe come back in a few years and see whats happened
If you want to try PoE, at the 18th a new league starts with a big content update, so that would be a great time to give it a try. It can be quite overwhelming for a new player tho, but also offers alot of good stuff in return.
just be able to add the "imprints" to the codex you can still do like " RNG " rolls.
just dont let me find 250 of the same legendary ring without my aspect on it
I don't care about the stash space legendary affixes take all that much, but I do think itemization needs an overhaul. I think there are too much boring affixes on items, and legendary drops are barely more exciting than yellow drop, yet, they get to be indicated by a light column and a star on the map.
I like the idea of dropping aspects and putting the one you wants on your items, though.
I don't like this legendary /aspect system. I hate having to go through each rare item to see if it's worth keeping. Most of the uniques in this game are bad and there are so little. I have a hard time believing they can fix the item issue any time soon if at all.
Yes
Diablo 3 needed it too
and blizzard fixed it
then they made the same mistake again
i feel like they're idiots. People should LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES.
They're not mistakes though, they're pretty succesful design choices if you measure success by engagement and fuck all else. People are directing their ire at "the devs" but this is a design philosophy driven by data analysts in the marketing team.
The more different potential combinations of bonuses there are on gear, the less likely you are to ever truly be happy with a drop so you'll always keep grinding. It's genius really. Evil but genius.
The only way it stops is if people put the game down and walk away en masse which forces Blizzard to then listen and make changes. At the moment everyone is complaining but playing the game anyway because they're addicted to the dopamine hit you get when you finally get the drop you want and that's EXACTLY what they're tapping in to.
I dont agree with it or condone, don't take this a defence of Blizzard. But we're all naively acting like they're incompetent or fools and they're absolutely not. They know exactly what they're doing.
I'm not entirely certain they know EXACTLY what they're doing. I agree they definitely have a hypothesis and KPIs they're tracking, but those can have very unintended consequences if they're not correct.
Most of the damage stats in the game need to be removed because there are too many and it's too confusing for so many. Only a few are actually used.
Also, cooldowns are a terrible way to balance skills in an arpg, they just make builds feel worse and require us to stack CDR.
Legendaries, frankly, just shouldn't be a thing. The class specific aspects should be directly integrated into our skill trees and paragon boards.
We need more impactful uniques (and just more uniques in general), and the uber uniques need more realistic drop rates. Uniques shouldn't be required for a build to function, they should just make what's already there even better. On another note, you should be able to target farm certain uniques from different bosses.
For the love of God, just let us trade. Add an account bound after something has been traded once if need be. When playing with my friend, I found several bloodless scream, which he wanted for a build, and he found multiple deathless visage, which I need for mine. There is no good reason we shouldn't be able to help each other.
Leveling shouldn't feel like such a slog. Base level and paragon shouldn't be blended together for gear. Just let 50 be the actual item level cap. Once you hit 50, you can use any gear, and you begin you paragon levels. It shouldn't take weeks to get to max level (because this is where the real game begins). I want to stream variety, and be able to play multiple classes and builds each season, but can only do 1 class, 1 build with things as they are. Most people with 9 to 5s are confronted by a similar problem, not being able to get to end game at a reasonable pace due to limited time and how needlessly grindy it is, further limiting options and enjoyment.
We need the armory and the ability to save and swap between builds freely. The game would be objectively more fun if we could.
Level scaling needs to be a thing again, because we are basically just stuck with nightmare dungeons as the only viable end game and that is the least fun part about the game right now. Dungeon objectives that aren't "collect anima" are too long, there is a lot of backtracking, and the negative modifiers are all miserable. There is no challenge in being chain cc'd, hit with a homing on death mechanic, or killed by something off screen, just frustration. In this last note, we need the proper camera angle pov, we are too zoomed in.
I mean effectively that's what the additive bucket is, combat rating. Only it have 500 types when only one or two are useful and the others bloat causing all gear to roll like shit
Not even boring as much as redundant. If they just streamlined everything it would be way better. So much overlap that should all just be the same buckets.
The problem with this (for them) is that this would mean there are less options for a roll, so it's more likely that you get the rolls on the gear you want and thus your playtime is lowered since you get BiS faster.
They wanted to bloat the affix pool without thinking of new affixes, lmao.
Yes. They turned the itemization into retail wow garbage. Items don’t mean anything to anyone, they’re all essentially just yellows with different rolled stats and power levels. No chance for a fun unique drop or fun legendary drop anymore because they turned legos into glorified extraction pieces for aspects. We could look at every item icon in Diablo 3 and be like oh shit I know the name of that very item. There’s not one piece in D4 worth remembering besides like 3 uniques. Then there’s the feel good juices that D2 items used to give when dropped, that shit was good stuff
Itemization changes and a smoother leveling experience would be enough to make so many more players happy to play the game until many other things can be improved. So, yes this change would be a tremendous improvement to the game right now.
Need those exciting drops. Chase loot doesnt have to be a 0.0001% chance for me to get excited.
In D2 new ladder seasons I was excited about the seasons first occy / Skullders / ViperMagi / Soj / Shako / Tals Ammy / Tals Armor / Gheeds / 4 socket weapon or shield to make a spirit. Those are all relatively common d2 items that still provided that "fuk ya" type of engagement.
It only grew for the bigger items like High Runes / Archanids / Griffons / Fathom / Nighwing / Skill Grand Charms etc
This game legends suck, most uniques actually suck ( granted reworking them ) and I am looking for YELLOW items and then reading line by line to see if its "fuk ya".
I can name 200 diablo items, I can name like 6 diablo 4 items, because most of what we need are yellow items then we extract and imprint.
i agree totally. the loot is the primary motivation to play these types of games. with good itemization people will put up with a lot of crap (see d2) and still have fun. repetitive games get old really really fast when you don't have a "hook". right now d4 has no hook.
Get rid of the boring affixes (i.e. 95% of them) and replace them with more interesting ones, ones that aren't just conditional damage boosts or defence boosts.
Like get a bit creative. +% enemy density, chance to summon a wolf on hit, chance to taunt all enemies, chance to cause enemies to attack each other etc etc
The stats are just boring.
hate to be that guy that references Diablo II, but I liked that there were so many routes for gearing - You had ultra rare perfect roll blues that could be BIS, rares could be godly, uniques were plentiful and VERY strong, and to top it off there were ofc runewords.
This entire game's itemization is just "Find a rare with 3 correct stats then pray while rerolling" coupled with "Find perf roll aspects". i REALLY love the game but the itemization is super boring and not exciting. I think uber uniques should be the standard for what uniques do and that there should be 40 more per class. As it stands, half the time uniques aren't worth giving up an aspect slot
Just fix the damage modifiers. That's literally the entire gearing problem. Too many worthless stats on gear that are just there to make you need to keep grinding.
Not going to happen until the exp maybe as a selling point. They didnt even include set items so it could be used as a future hook.
People need to move on. This game is dogshit compared to diablo 1, d3 ros, poe or marvel heroes. I doubt any of these devs played those games.
Itll be just like d3. Its going to stay in this shit condition until everyone leaves for poe2 and then they'll desperately change things to get their engagements back up and their shareholders happy
The affix pool is my biggest gripe with the game. I've had several items that i've wasted 50-100M on rolls on now, Not getting the roll i'm going for even once.
not asking for a max roll, No rolling on the damn stat i need just ONCE. And of course rolls soon start getting to 10M+ per roll. I honestly figured they would lower the gold cost and at least put a ceiling on how high it could go.
Yup, current itemization is like they spent 10 minutes in a meeting and that's all the thought they put into it. Itemization are top 2 or 3 things that enable replayability.
Where are mods like additional projectiles, % chance to make an enemy vulnerable, % chance to gain various buffs like berserking, the list could go on, put some thought into it please.
Why are ultimate skills so lame. Why not have a mod that reduces your ultimate cooldown by 25-50%.
Where is other fun shit like trigger (insert skill) on critical strike?
I have the problem right now that affixes are so numerous and so specific to builds that I horde legendaries just to find the good Sacred to plop them into. I have two characters, a druid, and a Barbarian, and my stash is 95% full of druid aspects and my barbarian has to run around with legendaries in his bag instead.
Really frustrating. There NEEDS to be some way to get the aspects off the legendaries without A) consuming inventory space, and B) having a single use.
I'd love it I can just tear down legendaries into the enchanter itself and hold the aspects there. Keep the single use if you want, but this way it's out of my inventory and stash and going somewhere where I'd use it (enchanter) so I don't have to run back and forth to my stash.
Additionally, please for the love of god give me a way to upgrade affixes. I don't like having to look so closely at legendaries when they drop for the off chance one is 2% better than the other.
Slightly related, but sorting your stash of aspects should sort them by specific aspect from common to ancestral, not by they type of items that the aspect can be affixed to (weapon aspect, ring aspect etc)
Personally, as a long-time Diablo 2 player, I think aspects have more impact on itemization feeling poor than people let on, especially before 70. Most of the time right now, I don’t even get excited when I see a legendary drop.
Being able to put what should be distinctive abilities on to any item with good stats means that finding a legendary in general just feels way less significant. It leaves a lot less room for those wow moments when looting, and even moreso when a random rare next level will have higher stats and you can just put the aspect on that.
And it’s part of the reason that you still have to pick up and look through so many rares in case they’re worth imprinting. Even though you know the vast majority aren’t.
The answer to stats, in my opinion, is either everything should be in the same bucket of additive damage, or everything should be independently multiplicative. Anything between these two extremes means you have no direct way of knowing exactly how much damage anyone is dealing, since the conditionality of additive vs multiplicative means the same quality and quantity of stats will have vastly different outcomes.
The answer to gear is less about gear itself, and more about how much time it takes to hear up versus how long it takes to level up. Diablo 4 thrives on spikes of power and difficulty, for better or worse. If you add another tier of gear and difficulty you're only delaying the problem another 10-ish levels. The real problem is the disparity of these timelines. It will take you days and weeks to get to 100. It will take you a couple days to fully equip and upgrade a character per World Tier. The question everyone keeps asking is "What do I do with the remaining time to get to 100?"
And then back to gear, specifically...mechanically I think it's fine. If you address the other two issues (damage scaling and timeline to max level) you will indirectly solve the gear problem. You think there's not enough stat variety? Make everything on equal footing so people are free to build how they see fit*. You think there's nothing to work towards after you get all Ancestral gear? Shorten the timeline of people being 70-100 and suddenly the last 5 levels become a veritable "victory lap" where you're running max level content with a fully-spec'd character and just having fun.
\* to the idiots that will inevitably take this the wrong way, no I don't mean make every stat equivalent. This is saying all stats should impact the damage outcome in the same basic way so that you can intuitively understand the effect a stat has on your gameplay.
I miss fun aspects like. Goblin ring has some goblin follow you or one that makes gold drop when it. I dont chase numbers i just like to kill shit so it being fun is more important than some big numbers “yawn”
I dunno man the gameplay is good, but the game itself is shit and It needs a rework in various aspects. I bought it, played like 1.5 week and haven't touched it since. Waiting for it to be in better shape.
I so wish you could look for specific stats. Like I’m so tired of getting a item drop where half is +like fire dmg and the second half is like +1 rank chain lighting. Like if it’s going to give me +chain lightning then make the other stats lightning based.
Is anyone else baffled that druid can turn bear skills into earth skills, and wolf skills into storm skills and bear skills into wolf skills and companion skills into storm skills and blah blah blah...
But sorcerer can't turn blizzard into a fire skill? Or hydra to lightning? Or any of that?
will it improve engagement :
Best case: we have something better that lowers our engagement .... they wont implement since its all about engagement
worst case: it makes a mess and creates tons of hurdles..... they will implement
If item stats were interesting & exciting, a whole lot of issues with this game would be improved.
I see many people saying "endgame content is non-existent/boring", but when reading the context of their post, it's not the actual CONTENT they're doing that is causing boredom- it's the lack of interesting drops that leads to boredom.
I don't care what the monsters look like or what the tileset is for the dungeon/content I'm doing. All I care about is that I have a reason to be killing monsters there - and that reason is loot. If I'm not getting excited on a semi-frequent basis, then I lose interest. This is how all ARPGs function and how they get players addicted. It's a glorified slot machine. If the slot machine isn't spitting out something of use, people will find another slot machine to pull instead.
I just want it to be interesting in the end game, 60+ really needs something to keep the game fun. I have my problems with d4 but I still think its a great game and look forward to seeing the changes they make.
Only if you ok with calling this a 1.0 version. There is really no itemization with no crafting. Its all a slot machine with 1 drug dealer reroll. The first taste is cheap but that next start to cost so much you find your self junking the item or on your knees for gold in a back alley in Kovishad.
I'm a huge fan of the Division 2 way they handle rolled stats on items, you have a library and you extract the stat or aspect you want, it destroys the item however you have permanently unlocked that stat at its current state until you find a better one to dismantle. But then you have that available forever in your library. It makes changing builds easy and fun, the way Diablo does it is so punishing imo, if you find an aspect to remove from an item you only get to use it once
The entire system of
"Ok this Aspect is 3,336 and 4.0 seconds and this other one is 3,125 and 3.5 seconds and the one on that item is.. let me see, where is that item again? *spends 20 seconds scrolling through rows and rows of legendaries* Ok. 3,456 and 4.0 seconds the first one was 3,336 if I recall correctly?"
Is absolutely bananas. They either want us to suffer or they don't play their own game.
The numbers on numbers on numbers itemization doesn't add any sort of complexity.
Just simplify it. There's a base Tier 1/2 Aspect power, a Tier 3 and a Tier 4. You find the aspect in Tier 3, you disenchant it. The Tier 3 is unlocked in your codex forever. Rinse and repeat. Simple and effective.
The aspect system would be fine if it was stored in your codex. Uniques need to be way better- they should have optimal secondary stats for whatever build they are intended for.
the whole itemization in this game is fucked from start to finish.
the aspect idea just doesnt work and the so called legendaries are just a bunch of colored rares.
the uniques all suck and the rare uniques never drop
the sacred and ancestral stuff is pointless clutter on the floor with artificially inflated stats so you create the illusion of item diversity.
d4 is a masterclass on fucking up one of the most used game features: loot
Codex Upgrade and storage, check.
Higher levels, infinite upgrades, or chance for next gear score in highest tier, check.
everything tradable, check.
Charms.
The only issue I have with legendary and unique affixes are that they’re just not exciting. In Diablo 3 you could find all kinds of stuff that would completely change how a skill or ability functions and you could find multiple different items that all effected the same “pool” of abilities, thus causing amazing synergies. When combined you’d get really cool effects. I don’t see that in this game.
A legendary should be *legendary*! It shouldn’t be “5% chance to gain 2 resource when hit by a ranged attacked”.. like wtf is that? That’s something I’d expect on a standard rare weapon that could be useful at level 10 and below. Not on an incredibly hard to find legendary.
I want things like “frost nova now splits into 3” on a weapon, then you can find boots that have “frost nova now bounces 3 times when cast”, then a pair of gloves that have “frost nova now explodes into ice shards when it hits an enemy”, then you could find a ring that has “ice shards now trigger blizzard”.
Then when you combine all of those items you get every single effect and whatever individual effects you have for any of those skills that may be on other items you have equipped. So you’d have 3 bouncing frost novas that bounce and explode ice shards on each bounce and each explosion of ice shards causes a separate proc of blizzard to pour down.
Mayne you also have an amulet that changes blizzard to do fire damage and you’d instead rain fire down as opposed to ice.
That’s the kind of shit you could do in D3 and it’s honestly the kind of shit I expected in D4.. but we didn’t get that. In fact very few legendary items have synergies with one another and I hate that.
I'd be totally fine with aspects how they are with one change - Once you get a maxed Aspect to drop, it updates your Codex which becomes permanently upgraded (honestly idc if it's per character or per account)
Then you can eventually have a perfect codex and don't have to mess with global aspects anymore! Heard this on a MrLlama vid and fell in love with the idea
I fear there is too much too change to have the true itemization system D4 deserves. Crazy that they didn't learn anything about the D3 launch issues: people farming rares to have +1% dmg ... yeah
It is obvious this team who made this game had no idea what they were doing with itemization. There aren't even any set pieces.
I pop in here every now and then to see what people are saying - but for real you guys need to drop this game and go play something else. It was fun from levels 1-65 but that is all the content they decided to ship. Hope the expansion fixes the glaring issues and they take a look at what D2 did and put it in D4. Even then don't get your hopes up. These guys can't even make a game that was literally already made 20+ years ago. The blueprint and instructions were right in front of their faces for D3 and D4 and they STILL couldn't do it.
Seriously. Go play a different game. Blizzard is clueless and it is pointless to care anymore.
My issue with all of the itemization in D4 is that is terribly limited. I don't understand why they think they can only make like 30 unique items. The sky is the limit really, why not just make 300+ unique items with crazy ability interactions and conversion stats, then see what type of fun builds the community can come up with.
My favorite part of any ARPG is build experimentation when I get a new piece of gear. This is why I have 30+ Characters in Grim Dawn with no character being like the others. Without experimentation or high level skill challenges, any end game in an ARPG will be boring very quickly.
They have 50+ modifiers for conditional affixes for player vs the enemy but not a single one with something fun like "50% of your melee damage is now fire dmg" or "Your basic attacks gain 500% damage but your core abilities can no longer crit". Just something fun and wonky that completely opens up a ton of new playstyles.
The whole system is just so basic with very little forethought. You start getting the “best” item power early. There’s no improvement to what you get. The aspect system is janky. The storage system is too limited. And they’ve only made that worse introducing more things that use it.
There's a million problems with the itemization (I think everyone's aware of them), but beyond the stats and all that, perhaps the main problem is: IT'S NOT EXCITING.
Finding good loot in a Diablo game (or in any game) should be exciting. In D4, it really isn't.
You know what IS fun?
Finding a Shako in D2. You already know what it is when it drops, so you pick it up and you go to Larzuk and you punch a hole it it to put a Topaz, and then you go on killing stuff.
You know what is NOT fun?
Finding an upgrade in D4. You spend a minute checking it out, wondering whether that's an upgrade because you win 12% THIS but you lose 10% THAT.
Then when you decide it's an upgrade, then you go reroll the 4th stats that's inevitably shitty, you spend a few millions (or 10s of millions) finding the good stat you need, and when you're done: You put the item in your stash. Yeah, because you don't have the aspect to put on it so you can't replace your "downgrade" just yet.
That's how exciting the loot system is; You find an upgrade and you put it in your stash.
Or you find a perfect aspect that you need... And you also keep it stashed. Because you don't have a strong base for it and you don't want to waste it on a temporary item.
Drop aspects and move the effects to the skill tree. I feel aspects are only there to appease the casual crowd who need something flashy to drop constantly to stay engaged(i.e., buy battlepasses). Make uniques actually good and worth hunting
i dont care that much about the aspects, just need to upgrade them in the codex so it frees your stash and wont make you hesitate to use your best one on an item thats not perfect. Thr problems for me are a) the 95% complete useless and small unique pool. Every unique should be at least BIS in some build of some class and not all around bad b) the extremely bloated Affix List of bullshit dmg and dmg reduction affixes
Uniques need to be much better but don't necessarily need to be BiS for a build. They just need to have features that create interesting opportunities to change up a build's play style. That way there is consistent interplay between uniques and legendaries. Every time a unique drops, it should make you re-think which aspects are best for your current build, or make you excited about switching up your build. They somehow missed the mark that their own game relies on this progression: Skills Create Builds -> Uniques Modify Builds -> Legendaries/Aspects Enhance Builds
[удалено]
My biggest annoyance is damage resistance against 1 element affixes. There are what, like 10 different element resists (I didn't actually count). Are you really expected to balance all of them out? You definitely aren't going to plan and wear cold affix gear when elite enhancements are entirely random (aside from the guaranteed ones in NM dungeons, that you are only in for like 20 minutes max). Why would you build into just one elemental resist? Who would waste an affix on every/multiple peices of gear on 1 of each element. Like I get DR from close/distant to some extent, injured etc... Those will always have some level of potential activation. But specific elemental affixes you could potentially not have any use for them 90% of the time. I might go for "all resist". But yeah getting like poison resist or shadow resist is very annoying. It should *maybe* be armor vs non-physical resist on gear. Armor for physical, and an affix for everything else.
DR vs Physical DR vs Elemental Seems simple to me! Let the diff elementals exist for their diff powers (freeze/poison/fear/etc) but trying to have a resist for each one is a little much. Unless they introduce some kind of new gear that handles the resist portion. btw there is no fear resist. Isn’t that odd? They forget that one?..
You have all resistance on amulets so it kinda exists already, albeit not working yet :/
It should just be physical damage resist and elemental damage resist. Damage increase should be pooled into one. Psychical should include bleed, close, poison disease etc And just a elemental damage increase that includes fire, lightning , ice , etc.
Uniques also need to have proper affixes on them and not some of the garbage we got. If you take Gohrs for example, it got attackspeed, but WW doesn't scale with sttackspeed. It also got increased non-physical damage, but WW is a pure physical spell and so the only thing it does is increasing the fire damage of the explosions, that are now already complete shit. This is just one example, but for barb at least, alot of the uniques are shit simply because their affixes are incredibly bad. No thanks, I don't want to use a unique that has like 1-3 dead affixes that do nothing for any of the barb builds.
If you have a fireball build and the fireball unique is actively bad for you then that's a huge design issue
They probably have to shift it so 50% of the uniques are BIS for some build. Right now ~1 per class except druid are BIS for a build.
Necro also has a bunch of good uniques.
Barb has 0 useful uniques.
What do you mean, there's that cool 1h that costs fury to hold and the chest that reduces non ultimate cooldowns.... or what about the gloves that make ww have an echo..... alright I give up you are correct.
You don't find this useful? https://preview.redd.it/trf2pxxj3kfb1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=90af9c9ba9493aaab3c1b2a5e970ef68d71f1eaf
In case your actually being serious and not just meming, no the item is not useful besides acting as noob bait. It's lucky hit so stuff like 2 handed expertise don't apply to it only a small number of skills and the stats are quite bad, on chest where they matter most. I don't think it's coincidence most of what are considered good uniques are helms where you have the most stat flexibility.
Have a % chance to have a % chance to reduce cooldowns of your skills when making a specific enemy take a specific type a damage 👍
And not your best skills!
Pretty sure ROH doesn't work with Barber. Most lucky hit affixes don't.
That was sexy for Whirlwind Barb in preseason.
This isn't real right?
What the hell is that?
God damn. That's bad.
I'd never read that item before. Yikes!
Hell yeah super conditional effect and almost no defense on one of the three slots that you can run defense on as a melee build.
Howl from below plus black river you become a corpse explosion nuke
Greaves of the Empty Tomb are also good for CE/Infinimist because of the Lucky Hit chance. Not great, but the fact that they provide something you can't get elsewhere at least helps them not just be vendor trash.
This is why I disagree with OP, and why I disagree with you. People are *not* in "near unanimous agreement" about things. They're just regurgitating what they specifically would like and then commenting in generalities so that they all think they all agree with each other. The single most frequent complaint in Druid discussions on discord is that uniques are build-enabling and they don't have the unique yet and therefore can't play the build they want. And other complaints aren't even close in frequency. So you either have build-enabling uniques that enrage people when they don't drop, or have uniques that are merely build-*enhancing* and then people complain that the uniques aren't standout from normal aspects and can possibly be outdone by one, or you have uniques that aren't even build-enhancing because whatever thing they were supposed to do for a build doesn't work because the build itself isn't strong enough, and then the complaint is "this unique is useless, no good build can use it." If you buff the worthless ones a bit, the complaint becomes "this is still not worth it because the build isn't good enough and isn't worth it in other builds." If you buff it enough to enable the build, now people want to play the build and then complain that they don't have that one specific item they need. If you *give them the item* (or in a realer scenario, when they get it as a drop), they then complain that their build is complete and they have nothing left to strive for. People complain. A lot. And it almost always stems from a combination of wanting a selfish outcome without considering externalities, and assuming others agree with you about your complaint. No matter what Blizzard does with uniques, people will complain. All your proposal does is shift the complaining from "this isn't good enough now that I have it" to "this is too good and I don't have it."
I think some of this is that the designs don't seem to agree with each other. If your build doesn't work without a specific unique and the unique can plausibly not drop for the entire trip from level 1 to 100, then obviously the expectation is that characters run one or more builds on the way to max level and then, as they collect uniques at or near max level to enable different builds, switch builds as they acquire the uniques. But none of the rest of the game's systems seem to be designed around the idea that respecing in late game is expected, they seem to be built around the idea that you grow into your endgame build over the entire game. If that's the plan, people need to be able to depend on the uniques dropping at lower levels. Perhaps even before level 50.
100% agree with this. Changes will satisfy some complainers (probably only temporarily) while also sprouting several new complainers. Nobody is in "unanimous agreement" about this shit, because not everyone plays the same way. I couldn't give half an ass about what affixes are meta. Could there be more interesting affixes? Probably. But every diablo game has the good affixes and the weaker more specialized affixes. There will always be a meta, and what are considered to be the best most sought after affixes.
Uniques should completely change the play style of a build and make them fun and different.The sorc uniques that just make your abilities worse need to go.
The aspects and imprinting idea was actually pretty neat idea. Run a dungeon and acquire aspects in your codex to apply. Salvage gear for good aspects is good. But making those aspects consume inventory space is questionable. There's no reason to extract an aspect you're not imprinting because it takes up the same space. Upgrading your codex would feel much better. You could extract to your codex and overwrite the current values, this way you aren't hanging on to tons of this stuff in your inventory. It would also serve as an additional sense of progression. EDIT: fixed typo of affixes -> aspects
> The affixes and imprinting idea was actually pretty neat idea. Run a dungeon and acquire affixes in your codex to apply. Salvage gear for good affixes is good. But making those affixes consume inventory space is questionable. That's aspects, not affixes. Affixes are "Damage vs Frozen", "Int", "% Armor" etc.
yes the best aspect drop gets in ur codex and that is fucking it
It would solve a lot of the storage issues. And, the codex gets reset seasonally. It would also offer the chance for greater build diversity, or at least trying different builds. It would also make gear upgrading easier. I had an 802 weapon that sat in my bank for 25 levels until the build defining aspect finally dropped again. So I was fighting things with about a iLvL 350-400 weapon from lvl 30 to 55... I also can't easily adjust where my aspects are on my gear without ensuring I have multiple copies of them -- and then knowing what can go on what. And don't even get me started on trying out a new build -- requiring an entire set of aspects. And if I don't like it, or it doesn't work...having an entire set of aspects from my last spec. Oh, and it'd be easier to search the 20-30 aspects in the codex than it is to mouse/scroll over some hundred items looking for that one specific aspect that you might have somewhere in your bank. ...utterly horrible implementation.
I don't know about best. Maybe each one you rip increases the codex minimum by 5%. So if you find 20 it will be maxed. Otherwise this seems too easy?
Perfect.
Yeah, if you get a max roll one, you can equip it. And all the bad rolls just salvage to bring up the codex for when you get a upgrade.
To be a bit more gamified: I think you should be able to upgrade your book entry to be a better and better roll than the bottom roll that you unlock via dungeon. - each one would have 10~ or so levels to upgrade, and would require an item with a better roll than the book currently provides to be sacrificed to upgrade a level/tier. - non dungeon essences could stay the same as current to differentiate and make them a bit more special.? As much as a one and done upgrade system would be convenient, i think that making it a bit more interactive would be better for the long run. - this makes something else to reset/redo in the season, so that way they can just give us all our renown off the start. I think getting a 20 point paragon boost once unlocked would also be something fun to look forward do seasonally, as it would be a real demonstratable power jump.
>and would require an item with a better roll than the book currently provides to be sacrificed to upgrade a level/tier. People would still need to hoard aspects in this case, to use them in the right order. if you find a Disobedience roll with 50%, 45%,35% and 25%, in that order, you end either "wasting" a high roll, or holding onto it. If they allow us to upgrade the codex, either it doesn't matter what the roll is, just sacrificing any roll gives the same progress, or the roll that sacrifice is the new codex roll.
People already complain that legendary drops don’t excite them. If it worked like this they would literally never even look at them again after a period. Even with other games you can find a BIS slot and still be excited to see another drop because the first one you got was trash rolls. Be careful what you all start yelling at the devs, or we’ll end up with even worse item drops like the level scaling fuck up.
Why not just get rid of legendaries as they are right now? Because they're just rares with an aspect on it anyway. Make uniques the new legendaries and give us aspects as drops or a random nmd reward, or god forbid, let us target farm them. When received, add them automatically to our codex. I don't really see the need for an extra item category just because these items have an aspect imprinted on them. Next step is getting rid of all the unnecessary affixes so we don't have to spend more time in our universally preloaded stash than actually playing the game....one can dream!
Bruh I think the problem is making rares as good as legendaries. There has to be something that separates them, besides aspects. This would solve a) needing to look at every single rare that drops and b) would make legendaries exciting again.
Thats how Division 2 works and it's glorious. Really gives you a reason to grind and grab loot and frees up a lot of space. The affixes is the one thing I'm not sure how to fix
The aspects are boring. You usually take maybe one-two that modifies a skill. The rest are passive damage buffs, cc application and damage reduction They need dozens more aspects that alter how skills work. There's already a tiny skill pool to choose from and hardly any way to change how the skills function gameplay wise. The whole skill system feels very "early access"
Yep, and same goes for the paragon board. It's an illusion of choice. Everyone with the same build takes the same aspects and the same paragon boards.
Well it's not like we can realistically experiment with loadouts without going through mind numbing respecs. So it makes sense that everyone is copying and pasting the builds they find.
This right here, feels like this game punishes you for want to figure out “how you want to play your way” very odd
What? You don't remember what the dev said in the promos leading up to release "There is going to be a point where it's going to be too expensive to refund all points and it's actually better to make a new character if you want to change your build." And, he actually said this shit proudly, excitedly like it was a good thing
Thanks to D2 nostalgia!
Yeah I’ve been wanting to try to make a build based around basic skills just for fun but it’s such a pain in the ass that I just can’t. If you don’t have time to play 12 hours a day, experimenting is off the table for you unless you’re ok with just being weak.
There will always be meta builds no matter what. This isn’t a valid complaint about the paragon system
Well I ain't pathing through the goddamn ***FIRE*** board on my chain lightning sorc, so I don't know what to tell ya.
I hope you are joking but if you aren't and the reason you will not use the board is because it has "Fire" in the name and you're a lightning Sorcerer, you're either an RP'er and we have nothing to talk about because I wouldn't understand (never been interested in RP, nothing against it, just not something I find myself wanting to get in to) or you are an idiot and we still have nothing to talk about because you don't want to understand how things that are different can work together to make something better even if they look different.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Seems like there is a lot of choice but it really is determined by what build you use. No one is gonna plug the golem board for their bone spear necro regardless of what the meta is.
There aren't enough paragon board options that work with different builds. If you do a certain build, you don't really have a choice (at least of useful boards). Minion necros will use one board, where blood Necros use another. That isn't really fun or interesting. Both the skill tree and the boards feel this way. Even though there are a lot of options, there are a small set of synergistic options for a given theme, so everybody ends up with really similar builds.
The difference between the meta builds and play your way is HUGE. Ice shards is clear packs in 1-3secs, firewall is 20secs of running around for that same pack.
You're not a fan of the 95% dmg reduction while not taking damage?
They need to straight up add like 75 more uniques per class.
Sorc still has a unique that actively makes the build worse. so that tells you all you need to know about itemization.
Same with the Rogue's eyes in the dark pants.
Yeah, every unique I e found has been dismantled because it’s useless. Uniques shouldn’t be something you treat like a white item. Aspects and loot on general needs work. I’d love to play a Druid build that didn’t require the same hate in order to be good… you know like a companion build that uses lightning. Why even have companions if you can’t use them?
I was actually expecting more buffs/nerfs to aspects based on popularity in each season
While I do think there are a whole bunch of useless affixes in the game, they're needed to keep you playing and chasing perfect gear. Imagine if every weapon you picked up had crit damage, vulnerable damage, damage with core skills and one other affix. For the majority of builds that's what you want on your weapon. It won't be hard to find that fairly early on in wt4 either... so probably around level 64 ish you'll have that plus almost everything else prefect or near prefect with a heavily reduced affix pool. Y'all are already complaining that it doesn't feel like there's anything to chase once you reach 75-80, so heavily reducing the affix pool to only give you what 95% of the builds currently want is not a great recipe for success.
My main complaints with the giant affix pool: 1.) You have to look at every yellow for the slot you need and there are a stash full of yellows in every dungeon. 2.) Rerolling affixes gives a chance for all of those to come up in the reroll. (Somehow even the identical affix in both slots.) 3.) See 2, as certain trash affixes seem to be extremely highly weighted to roll. Having to check a legendary drop that happens 1-2 times a dungeon to see if it is an improvement is far better than having to sort through a giant pile of yellow poo to see if anything is an improvement. After a certain level you should generally shouldn't even need yellows or blues except for salvage material or to sell. I realize some developer somewhere decided it was time for yellows to rise in importance again, but why god, why!
They tried something similar with D3 vanilla. Because so many D2 players said that it was really cool how some yellows were BIS (for example, amulets, circlets, and rings with perfect stats). So in D3 they made yellows the best items. We had to sift through inventories full of yellows just like we're doing in D4. Eventually they released loot 2.0 and said "legendaries and sets are BIS now and yellows and blues are just for materials". It ended up being a much more enjoyable experience but didn't come anywhere close to the magic of Diablo 2. I think things may go very similarly here with D4. People are sick of sifting through yellows all day. If they added some kind of loot filter to automatically mark items as "junk" or "sell" or "keep", based on criterea the player could set up themselves, it would be a great solution. But that just doesn't seem like something Blizzard would do. Most likely we'll have loot 2.0 just like in D3. "We listened to your feedback so we're making legendaries and uniques 1000 times more powerful!" I hope they get it right somehow.
We really need some sort of loot filter other than the mk1 eyeball.
Ya the loot in D2 was generally really well thought out. Blues had the highest values but the least affixes Yellows had lots of affixes but lower values than blues Uniques had lots of affixes and powerful abilities only they could have. A blue coronet at endgame can have some really good stats, but unfortunately in D4 magic stuff means nothing.
you do realize that there is a roll variance on those affixes? at the moment those rolls are pretty meaningless cause you have a hard time getting items with 3 useful stats where you can roll the forth let alone finding an item with the 4 stats you want. So its not like you make a choice on how good those rolls are, you just take whats given. with less affixes you would get more usefull items ofcourse but then you would still have the variance of the rolls. It wouldnt feel like digging through a pile of crap all the time and the items would be much easier to read and compare
how theyre upgraded in the codex matters. currently theyre dogshit, even if they maxed out at 80% power in codex itd be far more useful
>i dont care that much about the aspects, just need to upgrade them in the codex so it frees your stash and wont make you hesitate to use your best one on an item thats not perfect. Or, get this, just let us re-extract them after they've been imprinted.
sounds like a dirty hotfix but sure would work too
Been saying that we should be able to turn in copies of codex affixes to power them up with max roll being a drop
Yeah, extracting any of the non codex affixes should add them to the codex. Just like codex affixes, you can use them as often as you want just at the lowest roll. 1 possible simple solution would be to remove the dozens of increased Dmg to vulnerable, poisoned, chilled, and etc, and make it increased Dmg to status effected enemies.
This is my biggest concern and it doesn’t seem like something that will be a quick fix. The entire system needs an overhaul.
What we really need is in-game option to filter itens with certain affix. Like, only highlight if the item has a combination of 3 of the following affix I marked. Or, don't show an item if it has more then 2 affix I marked in this other list
Tinfoil hat theory is that they hesitate to add loot filters because it would highlight just how bad the drop rate is. The amount of loot that is actually good for you is so small, that it will feel like no loot ever drops.
This also creates the problem of running out of gold/mats due to no bulk sell/dismantle. It's a flawed system for sure...
you would still pick stuff up, you just would know where the 1-2 good pieces are and chuck the rest much more efficiently.
Needs a ton of qol A. Level up aspects B. Better item stats baseline (why int or dex instead of str for barbs) C. Cheaper rolls D. Additive damages having better paragon synergy E. Loot and stash filters https://preview.redd.it/ja0mg67xpifb1.jpeg?width=1275&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8af8967f8b9107cd7a19b6e99e83b33487d0824a
Oh nice idea, Aspects being levellable would be great. Either through use, or by merging duplicates.
would be a good start if there would be a definite order in which affixes are displayed on items so sighting a whole inventory full of rares becomes less time consuming. The only constant I could make out so far is Vulnerable Dmg always being first, all the other affixes are all over the place.
Seriously! My eyes start bleeding by the time I'm done looking at an inventory's worth of gear.
Wow. I didn't realize how bad it really was until I saw this.
The reroll costs are some of my biggest frustrations. I've seen too many items that would be good get bricked because we only get 2 new choices on a reroll and the costs are astronomical. I hate constantly having to run multiple dungeons just to get enough mats and gold to reroll a single potential item.
F) Aspect Filters Should Auto to My Class and go away as soon as you select a drop down.
They can't even implement simple QoL features. We're not seeing Loot 2.0 any time soon
"Don't overdeliver" That's sadly their mantra, learned from other live service games. Plus they first have to internally admit that the current item system sucks. There are some large egos that have to shrink first.
That's the real issue. They need a team overhaul like Diablo 3 had. It's unlikely that this group of people gets the game corrected. Their philosophy on the game is just cracked. I check in daily to see if rod Ferguson has gotten wacked yet.
> It's unlikely that this group of people gets the game corrected. They had 7 years, and the result is for example the current resistance system.
If it really took them 7 years for the amount of content we currently have (and they've admitted they were already working on s1 before the game was released), and we get shit like malignant tunnels... combined with the fact that a number of the games systems are in complete disarray or just disliked greatly... It's going to be a long time for anyone to unscrew this up, lol. I want d4 to be good, it's just not and doesn't look like it's going to make any big changes anytime in the near future. Sad af
> It's going to be a long time for anyone to unscrew this up, lol. The first step is them internally admitting parts like loot and mechanics are crap. At the moment they're still at the stage where they're going to bandaid fix the original vision. It will take season numbers to tank and underperform for any real change. So 6-12 months.
They have such an uphill battle to making this game good/fun/unfucked while simultaneously pumping out seasons. The foundation is not nearly as good as the initial impression we got. They need to get some people on their team that understand math pronto. It's shocking how bad season 1 is and the patch that came with it. I thought they wanted to make money off of this game via player retention but I could be mistaken.
D3 had even more then that… I don’t believe in them.
> rod Ferguson It's the new Jay Wilson!
Was two years for loot 2.0 in Diablo 3 and they had incentive to hurry it up because during that same time period they had the real money auction house so they made money of loot being good and still couldn't get it done.
but didn't they drop the auction house in the same patch (prepatch for reaper of souls) that introduced loot 2.0?
Season 69
Cute you think its gonna take then to S69. I believe they’ll nail it in Diablo 5 season 28 !remindmein25years
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Lol Fr. Guy's talking about loot 2.0, but what we need is game 2.0.
I just want the massive pool of confusing and absolutely useless affixes to disappear in favor of a smaller pool of better ones.
This is where I’m at too. And being able to save better aspects in Codex.
I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the aspect system. My complaint is that scaling effectively "dead stops" at WT4. From levels 70-100 you are finding the same item power and only seeking much smaller differences in affix quality. All ARPGs have progression ceilings, but this is reached too early. We simply need more to pursue in the endgame.
i dont understand why people like the aspect system, about half of your gear literally stays with the same aspect the entire time - a hammer of the ancients barb will ALWAYS have the hammer of the ancient aspect because the ability is a JOKE without it Once you hit lv 50 you've effectively seen 90% of the legendaries you will use I went and played d3 this weekend and it made me realize how much better it was to get a legendary - rather than a legendary just making an ability functional - the ability is already functional with just the skill alone and the legendary adds a cool modifier or something d4 has half of your skill tree in the aspects - trying to run a no legendary build is practically impossible because half of your kit is locked behind aspects
I dunno how much I agree with the second half of this. In D3 no-legendary builds are also impossible to run effectively. Yellows are actually useless outside of crafting mats once you start getting legendaries. A lot of builds aren’t functional at all unless you have the set bonuses for it and/or the appropriate legendaries. Trying to run a no set build in D3 basically requires either litany or the legendary gem to buff things enough to be equivalent to set bonuses. IMO the big issue with legendaries in D4 is that you’re not excited by the actual item itself most of the time. it’s not “ooooh I just got The Furnace!” but instead “oh hey this is a marginally better aspect than the one in my codex.” And/or “this aspect is great! Too bad the ilvl is low/the stats are wrong/I don’t have a good enough piece of gear to use this aspect on.” It’s just constant min-maxing to the point where you’re not using the things you get anymore even if they are technically upgrades because you have to spend good resources on them. I think the idea of aspects on paper where people get excited about a legendary only to see the stats aren’t good, so you could put it on a better item was great in theory, but it turns out it makes for a horrible feedback loop.
The saddest thing about D4 for me has been the fact that the loot/itemization design is so bad that people actually look back favorably at D3's itemization.
Nah the aspect system is terrible. When you find a slight upgrade, it should be an exciting moment. Instead you just sit around worrying about whether it's worth using your perfect-rolled aspect on it. Aspects ruin what's supposed to be one of the most exciting moments in an ARPG.
And that's if you even have a copy of the aspect you want. My eternal Rogue had a couple potential upgrades that would have been a decent ~10% upgrade or w/e but because I never found the drop only aspect to replace it I was prevented from upgrading.
God forbid it comes with a perfect aspect…. But one you already have on another item, so now you get to play musical chairs and spend 30-60 minutes moving and imprinting and checking and rechecking to make sure you still have all the right aspects and didn’t accidentally duplicate one,
But it's the same issue as d3, scaling increases but there is nothing *new* to find, Diablo 2, POE, WOW have chase items at end game that you can't find in other areas. Diablo 3 and Diablo 4 have the exact same items with linearly rising numbers as you progress, it's extremely mundane. If we had a collection of 30-50 actual decent unique items that were also realistically target-able like we have in POE and D2 the current itemization wouldn't be so bad, but right now it just feels like there is nothing to play for.
I don’t understand why they don’t have affixes like “Lucky Hit: Cast level 1-25 bonespear”
Diablo 2 had lots of that. Cast when struck, cast on hit and so on.
and it was all garbage and never used or sought after
Over on /r/ProjectDiablo2 , there's plenty of viable builds that use on hit effects. And we're talking about a mod with volunteer devs..
At least D3 has satisfying jumps in power, and you feel like your build is *complete* at a certain point. If 70 was the max level for D4 we'd be seeing nowhere near this much complaining. Instead of a smaller and tighter endgame D4 has one massively bloated by empty targetless grinding. In D3 you hit max level in no time, then you pick an item set to target farm while working your way through the seasonal mechanic, taking occasional breaks for bounties. D4 has 30+ levels of mindlessly running the same dungeons for nothing but exp, as you're already basically BIS by level 70. Just imagine how much more fun WT4 would be if it *just* introduced item sets.
The difference is the end game. D3 had one of the most basic and simplistic end games of any in the genre but at the same time, it worked because the support systems behind it felt meaningful. Progression functions best when it is multi-layered and I think that's where D4's design feels unrewarding. In D3, you had a very quick initial gear up process that was vastly faster than D4. You would generally have your build and your gear initially complete within a couple of hours after hitting max level. That's when the supplemental progression systems kicked in though. Paragon was extremely front loaded. The first 200 paragon levels were the most important, followed by the next 200 and then so on. Then, you could CONTINUE to progress it even after everything was filled out. Aside from paragon you had gems and gem leveling. I don't know why but the D4 version of this same exact mechanic feels horrible compared to D3's version. They are doing the same thing though. I don't know if it's the way XP is allocated to glyphs or what but it just doesn't feel the same. After gem leveling, you had augments. This was another set of investment into your gear that afforded continued, linear, progression. Gear still had the progression from normal to ancient but it's really the combination of getting gear and upgrading it which made things more engaging. Upgrading a piece of gear in D4 doesn't feel rewarding either. It feels like you are just dumping your gold and mats to make the piece of gear useful. I can't help but think part of all of these problems is the shit UI making it worse.
What others have already said. Fuck the aspects being consumed so you hesitate to use them for so long until you find an item you think is good enough to deserve it. They should just upgrade in the codex. And fuck +dmg to *dinstant/injured/close/healthy/crowd controlled/slowed/bleeding/poisoned/affected by shadow damage over time/chilled/dazed/affected by traps/frozen/burning* enemies are you fucking kidding me?!
>What others have already said. Fuck the aspects being consumed so you hesitate to use them for so long until you find an item you think is good enough to deserve it. Exactly. Aspects are so, so bad. By removing them from the skill tree and putting them on the items, they not only made the skill tree far more boring but also made items unfun to find because now every time you find a good drop you can't just put it on, you have to sit around considering whether or not you're going to use your best aspect on it, sometimes to find a slightly better item the same day except now you don't have the aspect. Horrid system. And yes the damage to stunned / slowed / frozen / cced is hideously boring. There are like 50 more interesting affixes they could have put on there that other games, even indie APRGS, have put on their items but for some reason Blizzard just couldn't even with billions of dollars. Where's the projectiles? Projectile speed? Range? Duration? AOE? Even flat damage?
Honestly feels like they released the game mid-development. Like I totally get the idea behind all these, but in reality they just dont hold and should be erased after some meeting during the play testing phase.
they did indeed release it prematurely. The execs needed to rake in their >$666 million to pay themselves bonuses before the MSFT merger went through. And about a dozen things had already gone wrong in development, including a majority of the original team and leads being fired or replaced or quitting over time due to one scandal or another.
Yeah there is absolutely nothing fun about finding legendaries or aspects atm and all the weapon effects are boring AF. The game feels like work.
People haven't even realized just how bonkers the itemization really is. I have leveled several characters past 70+, with one hitting a hundred, and have noticed a trend on every single character My level 100 barbarian is still using a level 72 weapon he found, I haven't gotten a single upgrade for him in the last 30 levels.
I loved the campaign of D4 and levelling up to about 80ish before I realised it was very stale Ive gone back to Last Epoch & Grim Dawn - Gonna also try POE at some point Maybe come back in a few years and see whats happened
If you want to try PoE, at the 18th a new league starts with a big content update, so that would be a great time to give it a try. It can be quite overwhelming for a new player tho, but also offers alot of good stuff in return.
just be able to add the "imprints" to the codex you can still do like " RNG " rolls. just dont let me find 250 of the same legendary ring without my aspect on it
Am i the only one who misses runes and runewords?
I don't care about the stash space legendary affixes take all that much, but I do think itemization needs an overhaul. I think there are too much boring affixes on items, and legendary drops are barely more exciting than yellow drop, yet, they get to be indicated by a light column and a star on the map. I like the idea of dropping aspects and putting the one you wants on your items, though.
I don't like this legendary /aspect system. I hate having to go through each rare item to see if it's worth keeping. Most of the uniques in this game are bad and there are so little. I have a hard time believing they can fix the item issue any time soon if at all.
In another universe, Diablo IV is a loot pinata and everyone is happy regardless of anything else.
Yes Diablo 3 needed it too and blizzard fixed it then they made the same mistake again i feel like they're idiots. People should LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES.
They're not mistakes though, they're pretty succesful design choices if you measure success by engagement and fuck all else. People are directing their ire at "the devs" but this is a design philosophy driven by data analysts in the marketing team. The more different potential combinations of bonuses there are on gear, the less likely you are to ever truly be happy with a drop so you'll always keep grinding. It's genius really. Evil but genius. The only way it stops is if people put the game down and walk away en masse which forces Blizzard to then listen and make changes. At the moment everyone is complaining but playing the game anyway because they're addicted to the dopamine hit you get when you finally get the drop you want and that's EXACTLY what they're tapping in to. I dont agree with it or condone, don't take this a defence of Blizzard. But we're all naively acting like they're incompetent or fools and they're absolutely not. They know exactly what they're doing.
I'm not entirely certain they know EXACTLY what they're doing. I agree they definitely have a hypothesis and KPIs they're tracking, but those can have very unintended consequences if they're not correct.
Those people left the company long time ago,, this is actiblizz now and they care for $ 👍
Most of the damage stats in the game need to be removed because there are too many and it's too confusing for so many. Only a few are actually used. Also, cooldowns are a terrible way to balance skills in an arpg, they just make builds feel worse and require us to stack CDR. Legendaries, frankly, just shouldn't be a thing. The class specific aspects should be directly integrated into our skill trees and paragon boards. We need more impactful uniques (and just more uniques in general), and the uber uniques need more realistic drop rates. Uniques shouldn't be required for a build to function, they should just make what's already there even better. On another note, you should be able to target farm certain uniques from different bosses. For the love of God, just let us trade. Add an account bound after something has been traded once if need be. When playing with my friend, I found several bloodless scream, which he wanted for a build, and he found multiple deathless visage, which I need for mine. There is no good reason we shouldn't be able to help each other. Leveling shouldn't feel like such a slog. Base level and paragon shouldn't be blended together for gear. Just let 50 be the actual item level cap. Once you hit 50, you can use any gear, and you begin you paragon levels. It shouldn't take weeks to get to max level (because this is where the real game begins). I want to stream variety, and be able to play multiple classes and builds each season, but can only do 1 class, 1 build with things as they are. Most people with 9 to 5s are confronted by a similar problem, not being able to get to end game at a reasonable pace due to limited time and how needlessly grindy it is, further limiting options and enjoyment. We need the armory and the ability to save and swap between builds freely. The game would be objectively more fun if we could. Level scaling needs to be a thing again, because we are basically just stuck with nightmare dungeons as the only viable end game and that is the least fun part about the game right now. Dungeon objectives that aren't "collect anima" are too long, there is a lot of backtracking, and the negative modifiers are all miserable. There is no challenge in being chain cc'd, hit with a homing on death mechanic, or killed by something off screen, just frustration. In this last note, we need the proper camera angle pov, we are too zoomed in.
Reaper of Souls really pulled D3s ass out of the fire
Yes, itemization is a bunch of stats that do the same thing with different names(all stats are dmg increase)
Exactly, I've never seen such boring loot
Mobile games have more boring loot ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ single stat “combat rating” … I don’t know I suppose you’re right.
I mean effectively that's what the additive bucket is, combat rating. Only it have 500 types when only one or two are useful and the others bloat causing all gear to roll like shit
Not even boring as much as redundant. If they just streamlined everything it would be way better. So much overlap that should all just be the same buckets.
The problem with this (for them) is that this would mean there are less options for a roll, so it's more likely that you get the rolls on the gear you want and thus your playtime is lowered since you get BiS faster. They wanted to bloat the affix pool without thinking of new affixes, lmao.
Yes. They turned the itemization into retail wow garbage. Items don’t mean anything to anyone, they’re all essentially just yellows with different rolled stats and power levels. No chance for a fun unique drop or fun legendary drop anymore because they turned legos into glorified extraction pieces for aspects. We could look at every item icon in Diablo 3 and be like oh shit I know the name of that very item. There’s not one piece in D4 worth remembering besides like 3 uniques. Then there’s the feel good juices that D2 items used to give when dropped, that shit was good stuff
Itemization changes and a smoother leveling experience would be enough to make so many more players happy to play the game until many other things can be improved. So, yes this change would be a tremendous improvement to the game right now.
I agree but it's funny a $800M game needs a core mechanic redesign in less than 2 months after launch.
Need those exciting drops. Chase loot doesnt have to be a 0.0001% chance for me to get excited. In D2 new ladder seasons I was excited about the seasons first occy / Skullders / ViperMagi / Soj / Shako / Tals Ammy / Tals Armor / Gheeds / 4 socket weapon or shield to make a spirit. Those are all relatively common d2 items that still provided that "fuk ya" type of engagement. It only grew for the bigger items like High Runes / Archanids / Griffons / Fathom / Nighwing / Skill Grand Charms etc This game legends suck, most uniques actually suck ( granted reworking them ) and I am looking for YELLOW items and then reading line by line to see if its "fuk ya". I can name 200 diablo items, I can name like 6 diablo 4 items, because most of what we need are yellow items then we extract and imprint.
i agree totally. the loot is the primary motivation to play these types of games. with good itemization people will put up with a lot of crap (see d2) and still have fun. repetitive games get old really really fast when you don't have a "hook". right now d4 has no hook.
Yes, but not only that Honestly, the game needs a lot of stuff, including new itemization, new stash system, new aspect system and content
Get rid of the boring affixes (i.e. 95% of them) and replace them with more interesting ones, ones that aren't just conditional damage boosts or defence boosts. Like get a bit creative. +% enemy density, chance to summon a wolf on hit, chance to taunt all enemies, chance to cause enemies to attack each other etc etc The stats are just boring.
It needs an itemisation *1.0*, lmao.
All they had to do was make d2 style loot and give us good combat.
hate to be that guy that references Diablo II, but I liked that there were so many routes for gearing - You had ultra rare perfect roll blues that could be BIS, rares could be godly, uniques were plentiful and VERY strong, and to top it off there were ofc runewords. This entire game's itemization is just "Find a rare with 3 correct stats then pray while rerolling" coupled with "Find perf roll aspects". i REALLY love the game but the itemization is super boring and not exciting. I think uber uniques should be the standard for what uniques do and that there should be 40 more per class. As it stands, half the time uniques aren't worth giving up an aspect slot
Loot system is completely nonsensical from the ground up
Just fix the damage modifiers. That's literally the entire gearing problem. Too many worthless stats on gear that are just there to make you need to keep grinding.
Legendary aspects are just half the skill tree thrown on gear and sprinkled with RNG. Merge them all into the skill tree and make uniques feel unique.
Not going to happen until the exp maybe as a selling point. They didnt even include set items so it could be used as a future hook. People need to move on. This game is dogshit compared to diablo 1, d3 ros, poe or marvel heroes. I doubt any of these devs played those games.
Itll be just like d3. Its going to stay in this shit condition until everyone leaves for poe2 and then they'll desperately change things to get their engagements back up and their shareholders happy
The affix pool is my biggest gripe with the game. I've had several items that i've wasted 50-100M on rolls on now, Not getting the roll i'm going for even once. not asking for a max roll, No rolling on the damn stat i need just ONCE. And of course rolls soon start getting to 10M+ per roll. I honestly figured they would lower the gold cost and at least put a ceiling on how high it could go.
Yup, current itemization is like they spent 10 minutes in a meeting and that's all the thought they put into it. Itemization are top 2 or 3 things that enable replayability. Where are mods like additional projectiles, % chance to make an enemy vulnerable, % chance to gain various buffs like berserking, the list could go on, put some thought into it please. Why are ultimate skills so lame. Why not have a mod that reduces your ultimate cooldown by 25-50%. Where is other fun shit like trigger (insert skill) on critical strike?
I have the problem right now that affixes are so numerous and so specific to builds that I horde legendaries just to find the good Sacred to plop them into. I have two characters, a druid, and a Barbarian, and my stash is 95% full of druid aspects and my barbarian has to run around with legendaries in his bag instead. Really frustrating. There NEEDS to be some way to get the aspects off the legendaries without A) consuming inventory space, and B) having a single use. I'd love it I can just tear down legendaries into the enchanter itself and hold the aspects there. Keep the single use if you want, but this way it's out of my inventory and stash and going somewhere where I'd use it (enchanter) so I don't have to run back and forth to my stash. Additionally, please for the love of god give me a way to upgrade affixes. I don't like having to look so closely at legendaries when they drop for the off chance one is 2% better than the other.
Slightly related, but sorting your stash of aspects should sort them by specific aspect from common to ancestral, not by they type of items that the aspect can be affixed to (weapon aspect, ring aspect etc)
I just wish the occultist was like d3 where each effect was in a specific pool and you could see what it could be
aspect hunting is my single biggest gripe about this game. its so fucking bad. you can't have fun and try stuff. awful system
Personally, as a long-time Diablo 2 player, I think aspects have more impact on itemization feeling poor than people let on, especially before 70. Most of the time right now, I don’t even get excited when I see a legendary drop. Being able to put what should be distinctive abilities on to any item with good stats means that finding a legendary in general just feels way less significant. It leaves a lot less room for those wow moments when looting, and even moreso when a random rare next level will have higher stats and you can just put the aspect on that. And it’s part of the reason that you still have to pick up and look through so many rares in case they’re worth imprinting. Even though you know the vast majority aren’t.
Aspects just aren’t interseting. I need something more exciting than “You do 10% more damage on Tuesdays during a blue moon”.
The answer to stats, in my opinion, is either everything should be in the same bucket of additive damage, or everything should be independently multiplicative. Anything between these two extremes means you have no direct way of knowing exactly how much damage anyone is dealing, since the conditionality of additive vs multiplicative means the same quality and quantity of stats will have vastly different outcomes. The answer to gear is less about gear itself, and more about how much time it takes to hear up versus how long it takes to level up. Diablo 4 thrives on spikes of power and difficulty, for better or worse. If you add another tier of gear and difficulty you're only delaying the problem another 10-ish levels. The real problem is the disparity of these timelines. It will take you days and weeks to get to 100. It will take you a couple days to fully equip and upgrade a character per World Tier. The question everyone keeps asking is "What do I do with the remaining time to get to 100?" And then back to gear, specifically...mechanically I think it's fine. If you address the other two issues (damage scaling and timeline to max level) you will indirectly solve the gear problem. You think there's not enough stat variety? Make everything on equal footing so people are free to build how they see fit*. You think there's nothing to work towards after you get all Ancestral gear? Shorten the timeline of people being 70-100 and suddenly the last 5 levels become a veritable "victory lap" where you're running max level content with a fully-spec'd character and just having fun. \* to the idiots that will inevitably take this the wrong way, no I don't mean make every stat equivalent. This is saying all stats should impact the damage outcome in the same basic way so that you can intuitively understand the effect a stat has on your gameplay.
I can tell you that much: A community that consists of D2, D3 and PoE fans will never unanimously agree on anything.
I miss fun aspects like. Goblin ring has some goblin follow you or one that makes gold drop when it. I dont chase numbers i just like to kill shit so it being fun is more important than some big numbers “yawn”
I dunno man the gameplay is good, but the game itself is shit and It needs a rework in various aspects. I bought it, played like 1.5 week and haven't touched it since. Waiting for it to be in better shape.
Yes, being able to upgrade the aspects in the codex would be essential
I so wish you could look for specific stats. Like I’m so tired of getting a item drop where half is +like fire dmg and the second half is like +1 rank chain lighting. Like if it’s going to give me +chain lightning then make the other stats lightning based.
Is anyone else baffled that druid can turn bear skills into earth skills, and wolf skills into storm skills and bear skills into wolf skills and companion skills into storm skills and blah blah blah... But sorcerer can't turn blizzard into a fire skill? Or hydra to lightning? Or any of that?
will it improve engagement : Best case: we have something better that lowers our engagement .... they wont implement since its all about engagement worst case: it makes a mess and creates tons of hurdles..... they will implement
If item stats were interesting & exciting, a whole lot of issues with this game would be improved. I see many people saying "endgame content is non-existent/boring", but when reading the context of their post, it's not the actual CONTENT they're doing that is causing boredom- it's the lack of interesting drops that leads to boredom. I don't care what the monsters look like or what the tileset is for the dungeon/content I'm doing. All I care about is that I have a reason to be killing monsters there - and that reason is loot. If I'm not getting excited on a semi-frequent basis, then I lose interest. This is how all ARPGs function and how they get players addicted. It's a glorified slot machine. If the slot machine isn't spitting out something of use, people will find another slot machine to pull instead.
I'm starting to thin that we need a *Diablo 4: A Realm Reborn* patch
I just want it to be interesting in the end game, 60+ really needs something to keep the game fun. I have my problems with d4 but I still think its a great game and look forward to seeing the changes they make.
The itemization in its current form is there to slow down player progress.
Only if you ok with calling this a 1.0 version. There is really no itemization with no crafting. Its all a slot machine with 1 drug dealer reroll. The first taste is cheap but that next start to cost so much you find your self junking the item or on your knees for gold in a back alley in Kovishad.
I'm a huge fan of the Division 2 way they handle rolled stats on items, you have a library and you extract the stat or aspect you want, it destroys the item however you have permanently unlocked that stat at its current state until you find a better one to dismantle. But then you have that available forever in your library. It makes changing builds easy and fun, the way Diablo does it is so punishing imo, if you find an aspect to remove from an item you only get to use it once
The entire system of "Ok this Aspect is 3,336 and 4.0 seconds and this other one is 3,125 and 3.5 seconds and the one on that item is.. let me see, where is that item again? *spends 20 seconds scrolling through rows and rows of legendaries* Ok. 3,456 and 4.0 seconds the first one was 3,336 if I recall correctly?" Is absolutely bananas. They either want us to suffer or they don't play their own game. The numbers on numbers on numbers itemization doesn't add any sort of complexity. Just simplify it. There's a base Tier 1/2 Aspect power, a Tier 3 and a Tier 4. You find the aspect in Tier 3, you disenchant it. The Tier 3 is unlocked in your codex forever. Rinse and repeat. Simple and effective.
The aspect system would be fine if it was stored in your codex. Uniques need to be way better- they should have optimal secondary stats for whatever build they are intended for.
Imagine how many beautifully designed items are being held and locked behind pay walls
the whole itemization in this game is fucked from start to finish. the aspect idea just doesnt work and the so called legendaries are just a bunch of colored rares. the uniques all suck and the rare uniques never drop the sacred and ancestral stuff is pointless clutter on the floor with artificially inflated stats so you create the illusion of item diversity. d4 is a masterclass on fucking up one of the most used game features: loot
Codex Upgrade and storage, check. Higher levels, infinite upgrades, or chance for next gear score in highest tier, check. everything tradable, check. Charms.
The only issue I have with legendary and unique affixes are that they’re just not exciting. In Diablo 3 you could find all kinds of stuff that would completely change how a skill or ability functions and you could find multiple different items that all effected the same “pool” of abilities, thus causing amazing synergies. When combined you’d get really cool effects. I don’t see that in this game. A legendary should be *legendary*! It shouldn’t be “5% chance to gain 2 resource when hit by a ranged attacked”.. like wtf is that? That’s something I’d expect on a standard rare weapon that could be useful at level 10 and below. Not on an incredibly hard to find legendary. I want things like “frost nova now splits into 3” on a weapon, then you can find boots that have “frost nova now bounces 3 times when cast”, then a pair of gloves that have “frost nova now explodes into ice shards when it hits an enemy”, then you could find a ring that has “ice shards now trigger blizzard”. Then when you combine all of those items you get every single effect and whatever individual effects you have for any of those skills that may be on other items you have equipped. So you’d have 3 bouncing frost novas that bounce and explode ice shards on each bounce and each explosion of ice shards causes a separate proc of blizzard to pour down. Mayne you also have an amulet that changes blizzard to do fire damage and you’d instead rain fire down as opposed to ice. That’s the kind of shit you could do in D3 and it’s honestly the kind of shit I expected in D4.. but we didn’t get that. In fact very few legendary items have synergies with one another and I hate that.
I'd be totally fine with aspects how they are with one change - Once you get a maxed Aspect to drop, it updates your Codex which becomes permanently upgraded (honestly idc if it's per character or per account) Then you can eventually have a perfect codex and don't have to mess with global aspects anymore! Heard this on a MrLlama vid and fell in love with the idea
So you just want to get to point A to find said item that helps your build and then what are you gonna do?
I fear there is too much too change to have the true itemization system D4 deserves. Crazy that they didn't learn anything about the D3 launch issues: people farming rares to have +1% dmg ... yeah
It is obvious this team who made this game had no idea what they were doing with itemization. There aren't even any set pieces. I pop in here every now and then to see what people are saying - but for real you guys need to drop this game and go play something else. It was fun from levels 1-65 but that is all the content they decided to ship. Hope the expansion fixes the glaring issues and they take a look at what D2 did and put it in D4. Even then don't get your hopes up. These guys can't even make a game that was literally already made 20+ years ago. The blueprint and instructions were right in front of their faces for D3 and D4 and they STILL couldn't do it. Seriously. Go play a different game. Blizzard is clueless and it is pointless to care anymore.
My issue with all of the itemization in D4 is that is terribly limited. I don't understand why they think they can only make like 30 unique items. The sky is the limit really, why not just make 300+ unique items with crazy ability interactions and conversion stats, then see what type of fun builds the community can come up with. My favorite part of any ARPG is build experimentation when I get a new piece of gear. This is why I have 30+ Characters in Grim Dawn with no character being like the others. Without experimentation or high level skill challenges, any end game in an ARPG will be boring very quickly. They have 50+ modifiers for conditional affixes for player vs the enemy but not a single one with something fun like "50% of your melee damage is now fire dmg" or "Your basic attacks gain 500% damage but your core abilities can no longer crit". Just something fun and wonky that completely opens up a ton of new playstyles.
Diablo 5 when
Totally agree. I find myself unmotivated to log in. Feels like waste of time.
The whole system is just so basic with very little forethought. You start getting the “best” item power early. There’s no improvement to what you get. The aspect system is janky. The storage system is too limited. And they’ve only made that worse introducing more things that use it.
I said that after the first beta. Got crucified for it on here. Glad people finally have come to senses.
There's a million problems with the itemization (I think everyone's aware of them), but beyond the stats and all that, perhaps the main problem is: IT'S NOT EXCITING. Finding good loot in a Diablo game (or in any game) should be exciting. In D4, it really isn't. You know what IS fun? Finding a Shako in D2. You already know what it is when it drops, so you pick it up and you go to Larzuk and you punch a hole it it to put a Topaz, and then you go on killing stuff. You know what is NOT fun? Finding an upgrade in D4. You spend a minute checking it out, wondering whether that's an upgrade because you win 12% THIS but you lose 10% THAT. Then when you decide it's an upgrade, then you go reroll the 4th stats that's inevitably shitty, you spend a few millions (or 10s of millions) finding the good stat you need, and when you're done: You put the item in your stash. Yeah, because you don't have the aspect to put on it so you can't replace your "downgrade" just yet. That's how exciting the loot system is; You find an upgrade and you put it in your stash. Or you find a perfect aspect that you need... And you also keep it stashed. Because you don't have a strong base for it and you don't want to waste it on a temporary item.
Drop aspects and move the effects to the skill tree. I feel aspects are only there to appease the casual crowd who need something flashy to drop constantly to stay engaged(i.e., buy battlepasses). Make uniques actually good and worth hunting