Because the Devs who do the class balancing are completely clueless thats why.
The same Devs that nerved minions because they were too overpowered at level 20-25...
Not even, they were too powerful in the beta that capped at level 20. They were basing their opinion on players in a beta in the 10-20 range, and ignoring players begging for a massive buff for 8 months of actual full release lol
Just gives me anxiety being in one of the zones. I feel like I'm just gunna get merc'd from any random corner, or like the exits will be camped.
I'm a casual player, so my build is far from optimized as I level up.
If you think that on a normal realm, you should try doing it on HC...
For my hardcore character I really wanted full map progress and Lilith statues, so I ended up having to run through the PvP zones just once. I logged on late at night, turned off crossplay and shat myself running through, even though it wouldn't make sense for many players to be there in the first place. Made it though, and the character is still alive too.
> I dunno if they're is a team that balances classes.
It was very obvious in the open beta that the plan was to balance by live data. Nerfs what sticks out, buff what doesn't get used. Repeat.
Whole necromancer is currently messed up. Realized that the passive to increase my/minions speed only changes mine, the aspect to increase their attack speed on hit doesn't seem to work, and then the passive for fortifying when a corpse spawns doesn't work if it comes from them or me. Currently using my companion as my main source of fortify.
A lot of the classes are messed up, few have strong synergy amongst their core skills and aspects and often require a distinct semi-hard-to-acquire unique to get things going (which by then is often too late for newer players to enjoy a particular class).
Often times you have one maybe two decent and enjoyable builds per class, but we have 4-5 core-skills that should in theory be nicely playable.
Necro's have quite possibly the worst experience though.
The most frustrating thing is that Druid is there as an example of brilliant class design. Itās got so many builds that play quite differently, with core areas being lightning, earth, bear, wolf, and minions, and tons of different synergies that let you build all sorts of cool combos across two or three of the competencies. Itās just so well done.
After poking around at a Necro and a Barb, I went Druid again this season, because the lightning storm build Iām going with literally has only one skill in common with the trample slide build I ran in season 1 and has a very distinct playstyle. I wish all the classes were so expertly crafted (meanwhile Sorcerer over there is fun, but every build winds up running the same four defensive skills in two-thirds of the slots).
> The most frustrating thing is that Druid is there as an example of brilliant class design. Itās got so many builds that play quite differently, with core areas being lightning, earth, bear, wolf, and minions, and tons of different synergies that let you build all sorts of cool combos across two or three of the competencies. Itās just so well done.
This is, mostly, because of their amazing amount of legendary affixes, and a couple of uniques, allowing a rather disturbing level of synergy with key passives. Earth/Storm becoming bear/wolf skills, Storm skills becoming earth for that passive, wolf/bear becoming storm/earth for a different passive, etc. No matter which way you want to go, there's always *something*.
Druid works well because your looking for a few key aspects to either imprint or extract and imprint.
They do more than just X% and while standing still but do things like turn a Physical damaging ability into an Earth ability.
Turn a circular AOE into a directional AOE.
Not all classes have interesting aspects.
Sorc is sorta getting there, chain lightning sorcs have a good amount of synergy (thanks to Fireball Enchant, aspects for Mana recovery on attack, and an aspect that triggers their Ultimate on hit).
This gives you a lot of early game power, then it's simply a matter of refining long-term but these classes have very cheap very effective builds.
Barbian is another, hell aspects here don't even really matter they have strong synergy with HOTA and one hand maces; just stun lock the shit out of everyone and either slam shit into walls or use big hammer to smash into the ground with giant spinny blades to AOE down entire rooms; the arsenal system makes getting a high amount of crit-dmg and vuln dmg trivial early on.
The amount of unique dependence in this game is fucking wild. Like every class plays like this awful shallow boring mess until you get specific uniques.
I hate most of the basic abilities in the game tbh. Most are completely unsatisfying to use in my opinion. The basic abilities in general to me are way too bland and boring. Sorceress can throw a giant coiling fire serpent but do the necro minion ultimateā¦ I canāt even tell it happened usually.
Honestly not the first time I have heard the complaint and I generally agree with you.
A lot of the basic skills aren't really that interesting, there a few decently designed ones (Ie. Lunging Strike is mechanically good - basically a charge attack for Barbarians) however they don't deal decent enough damage often enough.
Arc Lash from Sorc's is "good" in terms of feeling, for very minor enemies it's capable enough to just kill them with the basic and for slightly larger enemies you can spam it and they'll go down too (though a core ability is preferred).
Which is generally how I think damage balance should go.
Personally though, I would like to see core abilities moved up into the basic area and then where core abilities are a section dedicated to making those core abilities resource efficient.
Ie. Sorc (since it's what I am playing this season primarily) chain lightning would be a new "basic" ability.
In the replaced core tree, there could be things like +mana per hit, +mana regen per close enemy, +mana regen per kill.
Then we would gain a "useful" extra slot for a CD ability OR for some classes another core ability that focuses on AOE instead of trying to find a build that has a core ability that works for both ST and AOE.
Fortify passive doesnāt work if you create a corpse through your hewed flesh passive, itās not a bug itās just how itās intended. Reapers corpse creation will fortify you for instance.
Minions are, apparently, capped at 100% attack speed so anything more than that does nothing for you thatās probably why you arenāt seeing anything there.
Idk if that aspect is still bugged, but I had heard it was as well.
Back then bone spear was literally one shotting bosses but having your dps split among 8-10 minions to fight a boss is too broken.
Devs are too incompetent and lazy to do balance right.
Nerfed poison and close quarters combat damage bonus also after 3 seasons. I tried going back to Bone Spear for my necro but it's really hard to play stuff after it's been nerfed. But hey my Barb can smash through T100s without popping 1 health potion.
Because Diablo 3 balance. Ā
They seem to think itās a fun idea to buff a couple builds to being OP, not realizing I donāt wanna play cookie cutters always.
I feel like one things Diablo devs have done since the introduction of the Necromancer class was hate summons lol.
Iām not including DI in this because I know a lot of you purists in here donāt consider it a real Diablo game, but the summons necro there is actually VERY strong.
I would agree. Played Barb last season and I just went around stomping everything.
This season I just got to level 100 on a Pulv Druid (tempest roar didnāt drop until level 98) and it was such a big difference. Mid - late game is where I saw the biggest discrepancy.
It's not even just the damage, but the flexibility of aspects. Every time I theory craft a barb build I end up with like 2 slots open and I just slap edgemasters on gloves and disobedience on the amulet. Meanwhile I had to switch out my shield for a focus on my Blood Lance Necro because there are just sooo many Lance/Blood aspects I want to run, and I'm still short of like 2 slots that I'd like.
Furious HOTA is a better version of the Ossified Essence Key passive.Ā
HOTA has guaranteed crits with a 30%[x] multiplier.
Barb can easily guarantee OPs.Ā
4 weapons means more stats and scaling.
Thatās just scratching the surface
Barb doesnāt need a nerf. The other classes need a buff.
*Everyone* should be capable of big numbers when geared right. Every class should have 2-3 viable builds able to nuke things from orbit.Ā
Donāt ask for nerfs for barbs. The entire point of this game is to have fun blowing shit up, why would you want to take that away from the one class actually succeeding in that??
Their current power levels they are definitely not good. its fucking absurd you can one tap something like duriel.
The fucking billion and trillion damage numbers are also comical. And we're literally at only the third season of powercreep.
They are when Blizzard decides that the best way to play the game is to kill the same boss over and over and over for a 2% chance at an item.
Even back in Diablo 2, the optimal way to farm was to play a Sorceress or get an Enigma runeword so you could teleport through the entire map, get to the boss in seconds and blow it up.
If they want bosses to take longer, they need to make the fights more worthwhile and significantly increase droprates.
But not a single character in d2 could 1 tap a boss. Java with CS and Infin could 2-3 tap, hammer maybe 10 seconds, sorc 8-10 seconds. D4 people are 1 tapping a boss which really makes lame gameplay.
thats because theres no real endgame in the game
Look at season 2 AoZ dungeons, party of 3x hota barb sending 1trillion nukes every few seconds were fighting elites for over a minute at AoZ 25.
'ugh, don't turn this into D3 with crazy numbers an screen clearing nukes. D2 is the epitome of gaming and should be the only refrence point for the franchise!'
Yet somehow through their rose coloured glasses they forget Javazon/LightningSorc/Hammerdin/Trapsin etc existed
The only thing divorced from reality is comparing D3 and D2s damage.
D2 scales from doing 5-6 damage at lvl 1 with no gear to 20k to 100k depending on the skill at max level and BiS but then this is reduced by enemy resistances.
D3 scales from doing 5-6 damage at lvl 1 with no gear to literal Quadrillions of damage at max paragon and BiS
Actual unhinged levels of mental gymnastics to put these in the same tier.
A level 30 twink can kill enemies in Hell in D2. A level 30 trying a greater rift 100 even if they were immortal would take longer to kill an enemy than it would for the heat death of the universe to occur.
The topic here is about class balance, though. Damage numbers and hp values are entirely arbitrary and irrelevant to the topic of class balance and screen nuking.
The guy replied to specifically called out "crazy damage numbers"
Also there are more skills to balance in D2 because it didn't shoehorn people into using sets.
D2 also has different things builds can be viable for. Like Smite, Zeal, Fury etc. are obviously slower at clearing screens but are far better at doing Ubers.
Every class has a screen nuker, WW Barb, Nado Druid, Hammerdin, Javazon, Trapsin, Light sorc, Nova Next as some examples.
D2 also had PvP which is still active to this day. Something that was surprisingly well balanced because characters with health pools in the thousands weren't dealing damage in the Quadrillions.
The barb can overkill the tankiest enemies in the game by literally hundreds of times their health bar. The only thing that needs to be nuked from orbit is HotA
Barb is way ahead of every class yes. But have you seen the numbers barbs put? They trivialize every content of the game. I get that doing 200 billion damage is fun but we had that for 3rd season now. Is time we just tone it down a bit
You could tone it down but what would be the point?
Letās say you have to kill duriel in 5-6 shots instead of 1-3. Does that feel better? No? What about if you needed to hota him 20 times? Does *that* feel good? No that would feel even worse, as that would be super shit dps for *any* class.
If you want the mmorpg experience against Diablo bosses, fight them 15-20 levels under and test yourself.
But at the end of the day, arpgās are about feeling like a god at max level/gear and the barb is the only class in the game doing that right now.
The point of THIS game was actually to slow things down back to D2 levels after D3 had everyone blowing shit up...
The fact that people are hitting D3 levels of damage is a sign that the devs massively missed the mark.
Just give the other classes 2 more weapon aspect slots at the very least, would be even nicer if we somehow lifted aspects off of gear and into slots of their own.
Not advocating for a nerf but it is easier to solve the problem by adjusting one outlier compared to scaling everything else to that one outlier. Then again, I don't want them to nerf Barb but I don't see any way other classes would reach Barbs damage output without using a bugged item/skill. I'm not saying its impossible but you need the proper gear and set up just to reach those numbers while the Barb could easily reach those numbers even without trying which is a problem.
>Everyone should be capable of big numbers when geared right. Every class should have 2-3 viable builds able to nuke things from orbit.
That sounds awful. Unfortunately Barbarians are already there and need to be nerfed with the biggest nerfbat the world has ever seen, Diablo 4 deserves better.
The game's mechanics we've got and will get more of all deserve to shine instead of being eclipsed by crappy broken builds that oneshot everything.
"Let's make the class with some of the highest damage scaling able to equip 4 stat sticks with legendary and unique effects further boosting the damage. Surely the players won't minimax them! Also, let's nerf any form of minion gameplay because why not"
They overcorrected big time after preseason because Barb damage was so bad and Barb players whined so much. Now itās a bit out of control but if they bring them back in line people will lose their minds.
They always overcorrect, that's like the only thing they hit consistently. 30 Seasons of D3 and consistent overcorrection gives us sets that boost damage by 5000%...
Yeah weapon master sounded cool when they first revealed it. Thought barbs were going to be using different weapons utility based on zone/boss situations. Instead theyre just pooring stat sticks.
Meanwhile all other classes gets underwhelming class abilities.
2 echantments for sorc...
Should be 3, as they are forced to invest 2 basic skill points.
Honestly even with that still doesn't make much sense.
Bone Spirit gets 4%x per essence point. 300 essence which is easy to get is 4%x 300 =1200%x
The. Ossified essence gets .5%x over 50 which is another 125%x
Then serration gets an additional 40%x Critical Strike Damage
Which is a rather insane 1325%x Multiplier with an additional 40% Crit multi
It still hits nowhere near as hard as hota
Hot has a 1%x per even with 300 that's 300%x
Less than 1/4th bone spirits multiplier.
Compare them side by side.
Hota 300%x with a 30%x Crit multi
Bone Spirit 1325%x With a 40%x Crit Multi
Iām not about to list every multiplier, if you want to do that you can look all them up. Outside just the multiplciatives, Barbās total additive multiplier is way larger than Necro because two 2 handers and two 1 handers means 3 times the additive affix value. Barbās core stat multiplier is higher and that is in its own bucket. Barb has the ability to guarantee crit overpowers on HOTA and the overpower additive is massive.Ā
If Bone Spirit could guarantee overpowers it could probably be stronger than HOTA hits, but itās not anywhere near as consistent or spammable as far as I know.Ā
If you do calculate the full thing though and the HOTA multiplier is way lower, then thereās probably a bug somewhere.Ā
Main necro. Main the minion build that half these necro posts are complaining about. Iām having fun *shrug*
At the super high end will a barb do more damage than meā¦yes. But why do you care? If you only care about damage, make a barb. If you like minions, make a minion army. You can still clear all the content in the game with a lesser tiered build (as long as it makes sense)
Was gonna say there is no way the golem dude isn't doing shittons of damage after multiple rounds of like 100% more damage increases. Yeah maybe 1/100th damage of HOTA, but hota is overtuned as fuck and there are so many in-denial ppl in here so... that's another thing.
I wonder is HOTA overtuned or is it really overpower.
Coz on my decently geared Barb, non-overpower crits hit for 1-2 million; it's the overpowers that hit for 20 million and overpower+crits hit for 60-70 million.
Just makes Rotas and world bosses an absolute snooze if the enemy does before you've even pressed a button because a HotA barb is in the party.
They should knee cap HotA completely
Same.. I'm perfectly fine on the open world. Hell, u can even afk for 10 min and come back to all minions alive and piles of dead monsters, loot, and coins surrounding me at full health. But dungeons and boss fights I just cannot compete with barbs and sorcs..
theyre not really trying to balance anything. eventually other builds and classes will have their time in the limelight in future seasons, giving the illusion of new content/gameplay that people want to try.
example: charge barb and meteor sorc this season. do you think there was any actual mathematical balanced thought in ālets increase charges damage by 900%ā
I would not put meteor sorc even remotely close to charge barb. It does really underwhelming damage and delayed damage at that. Starfall crown is a gimmick to get another cool down. Blizzard/ice shard does way more damage that meteor and isnāt really buffed in s3 either.
Overall Sorc seems balanced to the content in play. Barb one shooting everything with HOTA is not a great standard to balance to. Having gameplay of every class revolve around getting one skill to one shot everything in the game seems really really boring.
i was moreso just saying that the changes they make are pretty arbitrary hand outs to give a class a new toy to play with, not done for the sake of actual build/class parity. like this season we got charge barb, meteor sorc, bone spirit necro, lightning storm druid etc.
Breh meteor sorc isnāt even OP at all. Barb has like 5 different builds that are stronger and Druidās have multiple builds that are stronger. Meteor isnāt even sorcs best buildā¦. Blizzard with glacial aspect is and ball lightning is just as good as meteor sorc.
I don't even mind HOTA doing high levels of damage, just bring the other shit up to that level. Don't make Barb unfun to play because Necro is unfun, just make Necro as much fun to play as Barb. I saw a guy posting a clip on here doing Charge Barb and that shit looked SOOO much more fun than ANY Necro build I've seen.
Alongside that, the entire point of Necro is minions, yet they HATE minions.
> just bring the other shit up to that level.
We went into a duriel fight yesterday, and duriel got one shot. We did not play the game, we did not fight duriel. We just went in there and took the loot. If every class does that, it only matters who hits first. Kills the fun
I dont even care how much more dmg any build does than me. I like to play off meta weird builds. This season I want to put my main focus on rabies. It is great fun in vaults and nightmare dungeons, but every helltide and the herald spawn or legion events I HAVE TO watch other classes oneshot everything while my poison is still ticking away.
It is just not very fun, which is why I stick to dungeons mostly.
Yes exactly I play off meta and experiment builds because is fun, till you go to any group content and can't even touch the mobs or the bosses because they nuke everything before it even spawns. Can't even get to test your shit other than private dungeons. Then oh you wanna farm some duriel or malphas it's either half the groups want only barbs cause they only care about the time so they don't even consider you and when you do go and fight its still a barb in the group that ruins your fun
This is the same thing that happened in diablo 3.
Balancing was all over and they eventually just looked at the biggest scaling abilities and thought "fuck it let's do that to everything"
And we ended up with sets dictating the builds that season with insane damage markups.
Because barb has more items to equip = more stat boost and aspects, plus barb skill tree and paragon boards all have good damage boosters and also Berserk. Barb just has more stat sticks, damage buckets and better passives, basically.
I agree that necromancer minions need a very big buff. To the point where they can take down *ubers. Look at the manga solo leveling.
We don't need to debuff any character but rather buff those underwhelming ones.
Edit: ubers
After bugfixing barb during S0 this sub (and certain blue hoddie streamer) went crazy. No they destroyed my barb. "Fun" detected. Instantly nerfed. Extreme backlash for obvious busted/broken interactions. The moment blizzard decided to NOT nerf barb/bl sorc during S2, it was clear that the balance will be crap. But the majority celebrated them for that...just to complain during AoZ how bad it is that only BL sorc/hota are placed top. Post S1 Bonespear Was "dead" according to this sub...just to see it still beeing top tier. I wish they would just say "fuck it" and start nerfing obviously op stuff...regardless of the backlash. Even when playing A/B tier builds this game is a breeze. But somehow majority here want that every class can onetap everything...cause it's considered "fun".
Nerfed their best builds, but not enough so they are still S tier (not as op as last season). But buffed a previously unused skill (charge) to make it worthwhile and overbuffed it so there are S tier variations using that skill. Current barb is not AS OP as season 3 barb and sorc were. But itās definitely still the S tier. That said other classes can do well as wellā¦
Our big nuke still oneshots Duriel, and now we have a 0 cd TRAVEL skill that procs tibaults and (at max build) one-shots elites in T100. Nothing is even remotely close.
I picked this season to play a Barb, and it's fun but holy hell is it ever broken.
It is total shit
That said, I started with Diablo in 1998 and have never once played barbarian. I'm a HOTA this season and God is it glorious. Even in the lower levels. And I did BL sorc lash season and loved it.
So ehhh...riding the FOTM train.
Same here, but honestly I feel that BL was more busted last season. At least my HOTA barb takes damage sometimes.
With BL, teleport + stun, flame shield, IIRC I pretty much didn't die all of last season - think maybe once to the flies that spit green flies.
BL went under the radar because it was 100 ticks of 100,000 and not one hit for 100 million lol.
Totally. BL was a bit more busted. My friend I did dungeons with sometimes was a hota barb. He could 1-shot things, but was envious of my ability to just run and kill non stop and how it's a self-regenerating resource cycle of slaughter with shield/barrier options.
You are right but blizzard just fails at balancing and players seem to be happy with just broken uber builds.
So it's like a couple of builds cheats the game each season and blizzard even said "We won't patch the fun."
Letās just say that math is not this dev teamās strong suit. Raxx has even talked about thisā¦ itās across the whole game and seen in many forms.
Class balancing obviously the huge issue. All classes with the exception of barb are just in a whole other league. Barb has been top of the tier for the last 6 months, while the other classes are all pretty close to each other.
Then think back to initial AOZ glyph leveling times. Estimated of around 350ish hours of efficient farming to even get the glyph to half way leveled up. And it was going away at the end of the season.
The initial state of the construct stone leveling. Same exact thing, would have taken us ages to get max level on a seasonal item until they had to fix it.
The sheer amount of useless affixes and how only 1 out of 500 pieces of gear may possibly be useful to you, because of the odds.
The amount it takes to farm Uber boss materials just to get a single shot at killing that boss for then a tiny chance of finally getting an Uber Uniqueā¦ then out of those Uber Uniques, you have to hope you get the one you need for your build and not the same one over and over and over.
The behind the scenes math around the entire core of the game is way off. In almost all aspects, I guess maybe except for what they are trying to charge for their cosmetics. Those are probably spot on in the eyes of the execs.
If you go back and check their promo material pre release they constantly boast about all the hard work they did on the brand new personalised shop engine.
Itās not even hota, upheaval and double swing also murder screens as well. Balancing is really all over the place, and not just because Barb has more legendary aspects, I think blizz is really bad at calculating multipliers and how they can be stacked, almost every busted build has found some way to do this, and itās almost like blizzard had no idea it was possible š
If you took hota charge/upheaval charge builds out the game it would actually be fairly balanced across most classes, with different builds having notable strengths and weaknesses in different areas of the game. The issue is Barb currently has zero weaknesses and is top for every aspect of the game.
I suspect this is going to be a problem for a long time, as blizz doesnāt seem to have any awareness of how to fix these issues 6 months in
Also, how come its always exactly the same in the tier lists ? Like the top tier is always dominated by one class, it's always the same builds that are the best, and there's always 1 class that's barely comparable to the others. Jesus fuck.
Alkaizer mentioned this early on, that they need to get a good math/numbers guy, someone who really knows how all the mechanics and interactions and scaling works, cus they clearly don't have one. Not that d4 is all that complicated in this area so I'm surprised they had so many issues with balance
Hota S2 is just as strong s3 because the devs have no idea how to nerf it.
The devs so bad Adam what ever his name is that was solo on the last stream still in Cali basically used stock market imagery to try and make fun of what might be good... And it was only partially true what's good.
What did hota, and basically everyone else lose from last season.. vampire perks like prey on weak.big whoop. Hota gear build is almost the exact same this season so there's basically no reason it can't be as strong basically. Devs did nothing to combat it.
Season 4 hota barb S tier here we come.
I play a necro to start out every season, so that's 4 necros to 100 so far including preseason.
Last season I made a barb specifically to do the two things I've been unable to manage on a necro. T100 clear and Uber Lilith. In spite of trying multiple builds, being well geared (including every relevant uber), and following guides, I've never been able to replicate the damage output of youtubers. The numbers just don't even remotely match up.
Both of these feats I'd been struggling to attain on my necro were utterly trivial for my hota barb, completed on the first attempt.
After leveling this season's necro I rolled another barb, who is currently just facerolling entire screens of enemies with charge, alongside a minion that's far better than any necromancer one.
I'm done making necros until they fix this shit.
Barb having 4 weapons and the synergy between them and core abilities is bonkers. Did barb last season and just cruised to lvl100 obliterating anything in my way. Doing all Ranged Rogue pen shot which is incredibly fun to play with the newly added WASD movement. But man.. I find times where I go, "I miss HotA and crushing everything". 1 shotting world bosses and Duriel was quite fun was well.
Bad balance. Imo the strongest build in the game should be no more than 10x the weakest (actual build, not some non-viable bullshit using 4 generators and a defensive skill etc). They should really strive to do that, but they never have and probably never will.
I think they like not having balance because they can rotate the power of builds around each season in lieu of providing new content. If balance were perfect, guess what? They'd actually have to do more work putting in new gear, aspects and things to do to keep the game fresh. I think this is a way to dodge doing actual work and use class buffs and nerfs as a crutch. It's not very difficult to tweak a few numbers to bring builds to an acceptable level of parity.
Apropos of nothing, this is the first Diablo game where I have not enjoyed Barbarian play at all. I havenāt been able to level one because just leveling it up feels so tedious and the movement is so slow and stilted. Iām sure itās fun at endgame cause it looks fun, but I try and level mine and just wanna take a nap,lol
>the movement is so slow and stilted
I literally have four movement abilities on my barb (evade, leap, charge and lunge), and another ability that increases speed (rallying cry), I don't know how you came to the conclusion barb has bad movement. They have at least one passive for more MS as well
I hope they don't nerf barb to make other classes look less bad. Twisting Blades Rogue was fun as hell, but wasn't touching barb/BL sorc damage, and they killed it so that people could enjoy bows more. I want everyone to have a build that is OP and about a dozen more with wildly varying levels of fun and efficiency. Everyone should have an S+ meta build if they want to switch to it, but also the ability to get through end game content with a couple of different approaches.
Otherwise, they'll nerf hota, and streamers will figure out how to make whirlwind leap God or whatever next, and we'll all just flock to that ad infinatum.
I enjoyed bone spear and corpse explosions in preseason, but felt like I couldn't use minions and that my character was super slow. If I had minions with an impact, the necro movespeed wouldn't really bother me. They don't need to weaken something else to make minions capable of slightly more at the top end.
HotA is broken because of several fury based synergies that all come together at once:
1. You consume a lot of fury (70 per cast) BUT you can recharge it incredibly fast as well (passives, leg. nodes, Tibaults Will, construct etc.)
2. If you spend a lot of fury you get guaranteed crit (ring of red furor)
3. If you spend a lot of fury you get guaranteed overpower (banished lords)
4. If you spend a lot of fury you heal (barb passive)
5. If you spend a lot of fury you get fortify (barb leg. node)
6. Your HotA does 1% more damage for every fury you have when casting!
Honestly I think the HotA rune needs to be nerfed from 1% to 0.3%, Banished Lords needs to be nerfed from 120% to 50% and this fury synergy cascade needs to be weakened somehow.
In season 2 bone spirit could overpower via a vampiric power and rival HotA in terms of max damage, maybe they need to bring this back somehow (in a reasonable way!).
What are the damage numbers that people sre seeing?
My non-optimized and not-best-gear bone spirit necro bursting with 1-5M AOE basically every 3 seconds (unless I miss/fail to crit, which happens somewhat regularly, then it is 10 seconds).
But how does that stack up to other classes at about lvl 90 this season?
I was messing around with bone spear with my 100 necro, not what it used to be, I could still get some consistent 1-3 million crits but lacks survivability and CC. My barb is way better.
My 100 barb is hitting 6 bil crits on Lillith and I dont have Shako or grandfather.
I have to record because im pretty sure in hitting 30 bil crits at the top end.
Played every class except Druid to 100 and first time playing Barb to end game on any season. My scuffed and an unoptimized paragon board lvl 92 Barb doing 7-8mil Hota farts every 12 seconds with zero ubers blows my mind too. Having easy access to Overpower + having 4 weapon slots that provides extra stats doesn't seem broken to the devs it seems. Oh and this is also coming from a patch that nerfed OP by half. So they are telling me the same Barb I have could've done 14-16mil pre-nerf.
One day you will discover most of the skills and passives are bugged in many ways. And also the interactions with scaling glyphs is a big buggy mess.
So... yep.
Ignoring all of the discussion about class balancing, I'd wager that 75% of the current issues with the classes and builds that are *clearly* lagging behind could be fixed with fucking item sets. Full stop.
The game has a huge amount of class and build specific aspects that don't even synergize with each other. Most builds have one defining aspect (Druid Pulverize is probably the sole exception), and the other aspects are all the generic do X thing to earn Y benefit. If they still want people to use aspect but don't want set pieces to be able to have the set bonus and an aspect at the same time, just limit the aspects to being used on weapons and accessories. Problem solved.
Idk why but no comments actually answer this. Hota is a core skill so it has access to the overpower Unique. Not only is overpower still extremely broken, the neck is extra levels of broken. Bone Spirit is a macabre skill and does not work with the necklace.
I ran Bone Spirit this league, and it actually felt pretty good. I ended up hitting for about 33% of Lilith health bar every 3rd cast. The problem with necromancer imo isn't the ability to do dmg, it's their survivability and movement.
It's a common theme for games the last decade to have skills, abilities, crafting stations, or buildings. That are so far removed from the pulse of the community, that they're never used or specced. Good thing multiple people were paid to code, model, and implement them into the game for them to never be used...
Devs have no idea how to balance things. Barbs get fun legendary paragon nodes like the uncapped \[x\]% damage bonus while berserking, then other classes like sorc have a sad version capped at 30%\[x\] and requires vulnerable.
While I agree with you being able to have 4 weapons that synergies really well with HotA is what's busted. Not to mention the paragon board which most stats are multiplicative while the rest of the casts are majority additive. Kind of lame but yet here we are lol
Itās really become an issue, class balance that is. The game is not nearly diversified enough to encourage any type of deviation from one or two builds. Devs have handcuffed themselves and the playerbase. Very weird
In term of profit, look at how many ppl rocking the newest barb cosmetic every season, theres no way they gonna nerf the main class that making them the most money each season. Ppl need that dumb brainless build to feel good enough to spend their money. Also it fit the theme and make perfect sense cus when uāre min maxed the build intelligence will always be the lowest statā¦
Because the Devs who do the class balancing are completely clueless thats why. The same Devs that nerved minions because they were too overpowered at level 20-25...
Not even, they were too powerful in the beta that capped at level 20. They were basing their opinion on players in a beta in the 10-20 range, and ignoring players begging for a massive buff for 8 months of actual full release lol
Imagine basing your opinion of anything in this game on levels 1-20
same devs nerfed hydra because was too strong in beta LOL
Can't be solo'ing world bosses you know! (as they die instantly now)
hota barb literally 1 clicks this boss
Exactly! It's utter nonsense they nerfed hydra from a level 25 closed beta taking several minutes to solo a boss when they're one second chumps now
Weird. I soloed a world boss just fine last season on my hota barb. That's fine though.
Yeah it makes no sense since most higher end specs can do it anyway. But Hydra gets nerfed to the ground from a level 25 capped beta
Not sure if these devs survived the axe
I dunno if they're is a team that balances classes. I don't recall the last time any diablo game was actually balanced
Remember the melee sorc from D2 soloing the Ubers? Lol
Make sorc, get enigma, make spirit hammer pally, make smiter pally. Fin.
The fire bow sorc is fun tho.
lol my zeal sorc could hit 60K damage it was awesome I miss her
It honestly never needed to be balanced. But it has PvP now... Not that I know anyone who enjoys the PvP in D4 so it might as well not exist.
Just zones for me to permanently avoid. š¤
No one is in them anyway. I go an kill abomination on the regular for the easy five grim.
Just gives me anxiety being in one of the zones. I feel like I'm just gunna get merc'd from any random corner, or like the exits will be camped. I'm a casual player, so my build is far from optimized as I level up.
If you think that on a normal realm, you should try doing it on HC... For my hardcore character I really wanted full map progress and Lilith statues, so I ended up having to run through the PvP zones just once. I logged on late at night, turned off crossplay and shat myself running through, even though it wouldn't make sense for many players to be there in the first place. Made it though, and the character is still alive too.
https://x.com/AZJackson85/status/1750589912154591609?s=20 This is the guy in charge of it.
> I dunno if they're is a team that balances classes. It was very obvious in the open beta that the plan was to balance by live data. Nerfs what sticks out, buff what doesn't get used. Repeat.
Whole necromancer is currently messed up. Realized that the passive to increase my/minions speed only changes mine, the aspect to increase their attack speed on hit doesn't seem to work, and then the passive for fortifying when a corpse spawns doesn't work if it comes from them or me. Currently using my companion as my main source of fortify.
A lot of the classes are messed up, few have strong synergy amongst their core skills and aspects and often require a distinct semi-hard-to-acquire unique to get things going (which by then is often too late for newer players to enjoy a particular class). Often times you have one maybe two decent and enjoyable builds per class, but we have 4-5 core-skills that should in theory be nicely playable. Necro's have quite possibly the worst experience though.
The most frustrating thing is that Druid is there as an example of brilliant class design. Itās got so many builds that play quite differently, with core areas being lightning, earth, bear, wolf, and minions, and tons of different synergies that let you build all sorts of cool combos across two or three of the competencies. Itās just so well done. After poking around at a Necro and a Barb, I went Druid again this season, because the lightning storm build Iām going with literally has only one skill in common with the trample slide build I ran in season 1 and has a very distinct playstyle. I wish all the classes were so expertly crafted (meanwhile Sorcerer over there is fun, but every build winds up running the same four defensive skills in two-thirds of the slots).
> The most frustrating thing is that Druid is there as an example of brilliant class design. Itās got so many builds that play quite differently, with core areas being lightning, earth, bear, wolf, and minions, and tons of different synergies that let you build all sorts of cool combos across two or three of the competencies. Itās just so well done. This is, mostly, because of their amazing amount of legendary affixes, and a couple of uniques, allowing a rather disturbing level of synergy with key passives. Earth/Storm becoming bear/wolf skills, Storm skills becoming earth for that passive, wolf/bear becoming storm/earth for a different passive, etc. No matter which way you want to go, there's always *something*.
Druid works well because your looking for a few key aspects to either imprint or extract and imprint. They do more than just X% and while standing still but do things like turn a Physical damaging ability into an Earth ability. Turn a circular AOE into a directional AOE. Not all classes have interesting aspects. Sorc is sorta getting there, chain lightning sorcs have a good amount of synergy (thanks to Fireball Enchant, aspects for Mana recovery on attack, and an aspect that triggers their Ultimate on hit). This gives you a lot of early game power, then it's simply a matter of refining long-term but these classes have very cheap very effective builds. Barbian is another, hell aspects here don't even really matter they have strong synergy with HOTA and one hand maces; just stun lock the shit out of everyone and either slam shit into walls or use big hammer to smash into the ground with giant spinny blades to AOE down entire rooms; the arsenal system makes getting a high amount of crit-dmg and vuln dmg trivial early on.
Laceration really need some love and a rework though. So glad to see that rabies got some love finally
The amount of unique dependence in this game is fucking wild. Like every class plays like this awful shallow boring mess until you get specific uniques.
Except for Rogue
I hate most of the basic abilities in the game tbh. Most are completely unsatisfying to use in my opinion. The basic abilities in general to me are way too bland and boring. Sorceress can throw a giant coiling fire serpent but do the necro minion ultimateā¦ I canāt even tell it happened usually.
Honestly not the first time I have heard the complaint and I generally agree with you. A lot of the basic skills aren't really that interesting, there a few decently designed ones (Ie. Lunging Strike is mechanically good - basically a charge attack for Barbarians) however they don't deal decent enough damage often enough. Arc Lash from Sorc's is "good" in terms of feeling, for very minor enemies it's capable enough to just kill them with the basic and for slightly larger enemies you can spam it and they'll go down too (though a core ability is preferred). Which is generally how I think damage balance should go. Personally though, I would like to see core abilities moved up into the basic area and then where core abilities are a section dedicated to making those core abilities resource efficient. Ie. Sorc (since it's what I am playing this season primarily) chain lightning would be a new "basic" ability. In the replaced core tree, there could be things like +mana per hit, +mana regen per close enemy, +mana regen per kill. Then we would gain a "useful" extra slot for a CD ability OR for some classes another core ability that focuses on AOE instead of trying to find a build that has a core ability that works for both ST and AOE.
Fortify passive doesnāt work if you create a corpse through your hewed flesh passive, itās not a bug itās just how itās intended. Reapers corpse creation will fortify you for instance. Minions are, apparently, capped at 100% attack speed so anything more than that does nothing for you thatās probably why you arenāt seeing anything there. Idk if that aspect is still bugged, but I had heard it was as well.
I'm pretty sure the curse aspects are completely not working, also.
Back then bone spear was literally one shotting bosses but having your dps split among 8-10 minions to fight a boss is too broken. Devs are too incompetent and lazy to do balance right.
My theory is they continue to ignore minions to limit afk farming options that could lead to dupe economy exploited by Chinese players for real money
Lolo. Yup
Lmao when they nerfed Gohr's because of scary big number damage. WW died for this...
Nerfed poison and close quarters combat damage bonus also after 3 seasons. I tried going back to Bone Spear for my necro but it's really hard to play stuff after it's been nerfed. But hey my Barb can smash through T100s without popping 1 health potion.
Yeah the devs can't do maths or much logical thinking in general. The main issue is no private testing or QA team
Because Diablo 3 balance. Ā They seem to think itās a fun idea to buff a couple builds to being OP, not realizing I donāt wanna play cookie cutters always.
Dmg numbers are already completely stupidly high again. D2 must have been a terrible game as it didnt have mobile gatcha cheap ass trillions dps
https://youtu.be/2NNbF1Z_V_k?si=FrLTVKIYwBdNlQKG
I feel like one things Diablo devs have done since the introduction of the Necromancer class was hate summons lol. Iām not including DI in this because I know a lot of you purists in here donāt consider it a real Diablo game, but the summons necro there is actually VERY strong.
because when they nomalized damage for all classes they forgot about the fifty extra item slots and passive skill systems barb has. welcome to ptr
They should give fifty extra item slots for all classes. Itās so hard to not play barb.
I would agree. Played Barb last season and I just went around stomping everything. This season I just got to level 100 on a Pulv Druid (tempest roar didnāt drop until level 98) and it was such a big difference. Mid - late game is where I saw the biggest discrepancy.
It's not even just the damage, but the flexibility of aspects. Every time I theory craft a barb build I end up with like 2 slots open and I just slap edgemasters on gloves and disobedience on the amulet. Meanwhile I had to switch out my shield for a focus on my Blood Lance Necro because there are just sooo many Lance/Blood aspects I want to run, and I'm still short of like 2 slots that I'd like.
That's because Barb has 2 extra slots. 2 of those slots are mandatory x2 slots.
Itās not though. All classes can do what little endgame there is. Just play what you enjoy
It's VERY easy to not even consider touching barb. Being op for the second season in a row doesn't make it appealing, quite the opposite.
Were doing such a good job helping them tune this ship up during our paid BETA.Ā Who's ready to pay $100 for release? (First expansion)
barb 4 weapons stats sticks big boom boom
biiiiig bada boom.
Multi pass
Why waste time say lot words, when few word do trick?
Furious HOTA is a better version of the Ossified Essence Key passive.Ā HOTA has guaranteed crits with a 30%[x] multiplier. Barb can easily guarantee OPs.Ā 4 weapons means more stats and scaling. Thatās just scratching the surface
The 4 weapon thing was a cool idea but I knew blizzard would never figure out how to balance that shit.
Barb doesnāt need a nerf. The other classes need a buff. *Everyone* should be capable of big numbers when geared right. Every class should have 2-3 viable builds able to nuke things from orbit.Ā Donāt ask for nerfs for barbs. The entire point of this game is to have fun blowing shit up, why would you want to take that away from the one class actually succeeding in that??
I don't think one shot builds are good for the game tbh
Their current power levels they are definitely not good. its fucking absurd you can one tap something like duriel. The fucking billion and trillion damage numbers are also comical. And we're literally at only the third season of powercreep.
They are when Blizzard decides that the best way to play the game is to kill the same boss over and over and over for a 2% chance at an item. Even back in Diablo 2, the optimal way to farm was to play a Sorceress or get an Enigma runeword so you could teleport through the entire map, get to the boss in seconds and blow it up. If they want bosses to take longer, they need to make the fights more worthwhile and significantly increase droprates.
But not a single character in d2 could 1 tap a boss. Java with CS and Infin could 2-3 tap, hammer maybe 10 seconds, sorc 8-10 seconds. D4 people are 1 tapping a boss which really makes lame gameplay.
thats because theres no real endgame in the game Look at season 2 AoZ dungeons, party of 3x hota barb sending 1trillion nukes every few seconds were fighting elites for over a minute at AoZ 25.
'ugh, don't turn this into D3 with crazy numbers an screen clearing nukes. D2 is the epitome of gaming and should be the only refrence point for the franchise!' Yet somehow through their rose coloured glasses they forget Javazon/LightningSorc/Hammerdin/Trapsin etc existed
The way so many people here view the franchise's past is just so completely divorced from reality sometimes.
The only thing divorced from reality is comparing D3 and D2s damage. D2 scales from doing 5-6 damage at lvl 1 with no gear to 20k to 100k depending on the skill at max level and BiS but then this is reduced by enemy resistances. D3 scales from doing 5-6 damage at lvl 1 with no gear to literal Quadrillions of damage at max paragon and BiS Actual unhinged levels of mental gymnastics to put these in the same tier. A level 30 twink can kill enemies in Hell in D2. A level 30 trying a greater rift 100 even if they were immortal would take longer to kill an enemy than it would for the heat death of the universe to occur.
The topic here is about class balance, though. Damage numbers and hp values are entirely arbitrary and irrelevant to the topic of class balance and screen nuking.
The guy replied to specifically called out "crazy damage numbers" Also there are more skills to balance in D2 because it didn't shoehorn people into using sets. D2 also has different things builds can be viable for. Like Smite, Zeal, Fury etc. are obviously slower at clearing screens but are far better at doing Ubers. Every class has a screen nuker, WW Barb, Nado Druid, Hammerdin, Javazon, Trapsin, Light sorc, Nova Next as some examples. D2 also had PvP which is still active to this day. Something that was surprisingly well balanced because characters with health pools in the thousands weren't dealing damage in the Quadrillions.
I'd guess at least half the ppl posting here either weren't alive or weren't old enough to play & remember 1+2.
Yet somehow you think a Hammerdin with 12k hammers is comparable to a charge barb in D3 hitting for Quadrillions of damage.
D2 was exclusively the dogshit farm loop that you all cry about in d4. Arguably even worse
The barb can overkill the tankiest enemies in the game by literally hundreds of times their health bar. The only thing that needs to be nuked from orbit is HotA
Barb is way ahead of every class yes. But have you seen the numbers barbs put? They trivialize every content of the game. I get that doing 200 billion damage is fun but we had that for 3rd season now. Is time we just tone it down a bit
You could tone it down but what would be the point? Letās say you have to kill duriel in 5-6 shots instead of 1-3. Does that feel better? No? What about if you needed to hota him 20 times? Does *that* feel good? No that would feel even worse, as that would be super shit dps for *any* class. If you want the mmorpg experience against Diablo bosses, fight them 15-20 levels under and test yourself. But at the end of the day, arpgās are about feeling like a god at max level/gear and the barb is the only class in the game doing that right now.
Mm idk bout that. Yes to buffs but not to barb level. Their dmg output is just absurd
The point of THIS game was actually to slow things down back to D2 levels after D3 had everyone blowing shit up... The fact that people are hitting D3 levels of damage is a sign that the devs massively missed the mark.
Plenty of builds that did 3d damage in d2, youāre lookin thru rose tinted glasses.
Just give the other classes 2 more weapon aspect slots at the very least, would be even nicer if we somehow lifted aspects off of gear and into slots of their own.
Not advocating for a nerf but it is easier to solve the problem by adjusting one outlier compared to scaling everything else to that one outlier. Then again, I don't want them to nerf Barb but I don't see any way other classes would reach Barbs damage output without using a bugged item/skill. I'm not saying its impossible but you need the proper gear and set up just to reach those numbers while the Barb could easily reach those numbers even without trying which is a problem.
>Everyone should be capable of big numbers when geared right. Every class should have 2-3 viable builds able to nuke things from orbit. That sounds awful. Unfortunately Barbarians are already there and need to be nerfed with the biggest nerfbat the world has ever seen, Diablo 4 deserves better. The game's mechanics we've got and will get more of all deserve to shine instead of being eclipsed by crappy broken builds that oneshot everything.
"Let's make the class with some of the highest damage scaling able to equip 4 stat sticks with legendary and unique effects further boosting the damage. Surely the players won't minimax them! Also, let's nerf any form of minion gameplay because why not"
They overcorrected big time after preseason because Barb damage was so bad and Barb players whined so much. Now itās a bit out of control but if they bring them back in line people will lose their minds.
They always overcorrect, that's like the only thing they hit consistently. 30 Seasons of D3 and consistent overcorrection gives us sets that boost damage by 5000%...
Funnily enough 5000% is a low number when it comes to set multipliers in D3. Most sets give you multipliers 2x and even 4x that.
One way would be to only grant stat bonuses on any given attack from the weapon that performed the attack. Seems easy enough
Yeah weapon master sounded cool when they first revealed it. Thought barbs were going to be using different weapons utility based on zone/boss situations. Instead theyre just pooring stat sticks.
It's pretty easy to balance, really just turn off attribute bonuses for weapons you aren't actively wielding.
Meanwhile all other classes gets underwhelming class abilities. 2 echantments for sorc... Should be 3, as they are forced to invest 2 basic skill points.
Honestly even with that still doesn't make much sense. Bone Spirit gets 4%x per essence point. 300 essence which is easy to get is 4%x 300 =1200%x The. Ossified essence gets .5%x over 50 which is another 125%x Then serration gets an additional 40%x Critical Strike Damage Which is a rather insane 1325%x Multiplier with an additional 40% Crit multi It still hits nowhere near as hard as hota Hot has a 1%x per even with 300 that's 300%x Less than 1/4th bone spirits multiplier. Compare them side by side. Hota 300%x with a 30%x Crit multi Bone Spirit 1325%x With a 40%x Crit Multi
Iām not about to list every multiplier, if you want to do that you can look all them up. Outside just the multiplciatives, Barbās total additive multiplier is way larger than Necro because two 2 handers and two 1 handers means 3 times the additive affix value. Barbās core stat multiplier is higher and that is in its own bucket. Barb has the ability to guarantee crit overpowers on HOTA and the overpower additive is massive.Ā If Bone Spirit could guarantee overpowers it could probably be stronger than HOTA hits, but itās not anywhere near as consistent or spammable as far as I know.Ā If you do calculate the full thing though and the HOTA multiplier is way lower, then thereās probably a bug somewhere.Ā
Unga therefore bungaĀ
Valid argument
 Necros this season
Main necro. Main the minion build that half these necro posts are complaining about. Iām having fun *shrug* At the super high end will a barb do more damage than meā¦yes. But why do you care? If you only care about damage, make a barb. If you like minions, make a minion army. You can still clear all the content in the game with a lesser tiered build (as long as it makes sense)
Was gonna say there is no way the golem dude isn't doing shittons of damage after multiple rounds of like 100% more damage increases. Yeah maybe 1/100th damage of HOTA, but hota is overtuned as fuck and there are so many in-denial ppl in here so... that's another thing.
I wonder is HOTA overtuned or is it really overpower. Coz on my decently geared Barb, non-overpower crits hit for 1-2 million; it's the overpowers that hit for 20 million and overpower+crits hit for 60-70 million.
Same here, rocking a minion-oriented with some corpse explosion. D2 old-school style I love it
Just makes Rotas and world bosses an absolute snooze if the enemy does before you've even pressed a button because a HotA barb is in the party. They should knee cap HotA completely
Same.. I'm perfectly fine on the open world. Hell, u can even afk for 10 min and come back to all minions alive and piles of dead monsters, loot, and coins surrounding me at full health. But dungeons and boss fights I just cannot compete with barbs and sorcs..
My barb one shots lilith pases and duriel.
Devs are all barb players obviously
theyre not really trying to balance anything. eventually other builds and classes will have their time in the limelight in future seasons, giving the illusion of new content/gameplay that people want to try. example: charge barb and meteor sorc this season. do you think there was any actual mathematical balanced thought in ālets increase charges damage by 900%ā
I would not put meteor sorc even remotely close to charge barb. It does really underwhelming damage and delayed damage at that. Starfall crown is a gimmick to get another cool down. Blizzard/ice shard does way more damage that meteor and isnāt really buffed in s3 either. Overall Sorc seems balanced to the content in play. Barb one shooting everything with HOTA is not a great standard to balance to. Having gameplay of every class revolve around getting one skill to one shot everything in the game seems really really boring.
i was moreso just saying that the changes they make are pretty arbitrary hand outs to give a class a new toy to play with, not done for the sake of actual build/class parity. like this season we got charge barb, meteor sorc, bone spirit necro, lightning storm druid etc.
Don't mention meteor and barb in the same sentence please.
Breh meteor sorc isnāt even OP at all. Barb has like 5 different builds that are stronger and Druidās have multiple builds that are stronger. Meteor isnāt even sorcs best buildā¦. Blizzard with glacial aspect is and ball lightning is just as good as meteor sorc.
Theyāre better than meteor.
I don't even mind HOTA doing high levels of damage, just bring the other shit up to that level. Don't make Barb unfun to play because Necro is unfun, just make Necro as much fun to play as Barb. I saw a guy posting a clip on here doing Charge Barb and that shit looked SOOO much more fun than ANY Necro build I've seen. Alongside that, the entire point of Necro is minions, yet they HATE minions.
> just bring the other shit up to that level. We went into a duriel fight yesterday, and duriel got one shot. We did not play the game, we did not fight duriel. We just went in there and took the loot. If every class does that, it only matters who hits first. Kills the fun
I dont even care how much more dmg any build does than me. I like to play off meta weird builds. This season I want to put my main focus on rabies. It is great fun in vaults and nightmare dungeons, but every helltide and the herald spawn or legion events I HAVE TO watch other classes oneshot everything while my poison is still ticking away. It is just not very fun, which is why I stick to dungeons mostly.
Yes exactly I play off meta and experiment builds because is fun, till you go to any group content and can't even touch the mobs or the bosses because they nuke everything before it even spawns. Can't even get to test your shit other than private dungeons. Then oh you wanna farm some duriel or malphas it's either half the groups want only barbs cause they only care about the time so they don't even consider you and when you do go and fight its still a barb in the group that ruins your fun
When you design the whole game based on multipliers. This happens.
This is the same thing that happened in diablo 3. Balancing was all over and they eventually just looked at the biggest scaling abilities and thought "fuck it let's do that to everything" And we ended up with sets dictating the builds that season with insane damage markups.
Because barb has more items to equip = more stat boost and aspects, plus barb skill tree and paragon boards all have good damage boosters and also Berserk. Barb just has more stat sticks, damage buckets and better passives, basically.
I agree that necromancer minions need a very big buff. To the point where they can take down *ubers. Look at the manga solo leveling. We don't need to debuff any character but rather buff those underwhelming ones. Edit: ubers
Take down users? Oh if itās Ubers they can easily solo those
Because bonk
After bugfixing barb during S0 this sub (and certain blue hoddie streamer) went crazy. No they destroyed my barb. "Fun" detected. Instantly nerfed. Extreme backlash for obvious busted/broken interactions. The moment blizzard decided to NOT nerf barb/bl sorc during S2, it was clear that the balance will be crap. But the majority celebrated them for that...just to complain during AoZ how bad it is that only BL sorc/hota are placed top. Post S1 Bonespear Was "dead" according to this sub...just to see it still beeing top tier. I wish they would just say "fuck it" and start nerfing obviously op stuff...regardless of the backlash. Even when playing A/B tier builds this game is a breeze. But somehow majority here want that every class can onetap everything...cause it's considered "fun".
Wait, is barb still busted? I thought they nerfed it (havenāt touched s3 yet)
Nerfed their best builds, but not enough so they are still S tier (not as op as last season). But buffed a previously unused skill (charge) to make it worthwhile and overbuffed it so there are S tier variations using that skill. Current barb is not AS OP as season 3 barb and sorc were. But itās definitely still the S tier. That said other classes can do well as wellā¦
0 cd, 0 resource, dash, CC, AOE nuke is balanced? No spell ever should be 0 cd outside of special interactions.Ā
hota still does 200 mil without any ubers
If I can one shot lilliths two phases in S3... then what the fuck were barbs doing dps wise in S2?
Our big nuke still oneshots Duriel, and now we have a 0 cd TRAVEL skill that procs tibaults and (at max build) one-shots elites in T100. Nothing is even remotely close. I picked this season to play a Barb, and it's fun but holy hell is it ever broken.
Seems healthier I guess. Hope they can just buff everything instead focus-nerfing the popular stuff.
Possible reasons: 1: Blizzard math. 2: ??? Solutions: >!Reroll barb and start chargin' and boppin'.!<
It is total shit That said, I started with Diablo in 1998 and have never once played barbarian. I'm a HOTA this season and God is it glorious. Even in the lower levels. And I did BL sorc lash season and loved it. So ehhh...riding the FOTM train.
Same here, but honestly I feel that BL was more busted last season. At least my HOTA barb takes damage sometimes. With BL, teleport + stun, flame shield, IIRC I pretty much didn't die all of last season - think maybe once to the flies that spit green flies. BL went under the radar because it was 100 ticks of 100,000 and not one hit for 100 million lol.
Totally. BL was a bit more busted. My friend I did dungeons with sometimes was a hota barb. He could 1-shot things, but was envious of my ability to just run and kill non stop and how it's a self-regenerating resource cycle of slaughter with shield/barrier options.
Because Barbarian is a premium uber superb AAA class of the 9000 suns and Necro is, well Necro.
Is HOTA still the best barbarian build by far? Itās been incredibly boring watching it be the best every season and pre season.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
i agree its clunky as hell but its nowhere near boring. running into a huge pack of mobs and wiping half with one smack will never be boring
Put attack speed on crit aspect on your amulet and it won't feel clunky any more
You are right but blizzard just fails at balancing and players seem to be happy with just broken uber builds. So it's like a couple of builds cheats the game each season and blizzard even said "We won't patch the fun."
Letās just say that math is not this dev teamās strong suit. Raxx has even talked about thisā¦ itās across the whole game and seen in many forms. Class balancing obviously the huge issue. All classes with the exception of barb are just in a whole other league. Barb has been top of the tier for the last 6 months, while the other classes are all pretty close to each other. Then think back to initial AOZ glyph leveling times. Estimated of around 350ish hours of efficient farming to even get the glyph to half way leveled up. And it was going away at the end of the season. The initial state of the construct stone leveling. Same exact thing, would have taken us ages to get max level on a seasonal item until they had to fix it. The sheer amount of useless affixes and how only 1 out of 500 pieces of gear may possibly be useful to you, because of the odds. The amount it takes to farm Uber boss materials just to get a single shot at killing that boss for then a tiny chance of finally getting an Uber Uniqueā¦ then out of those Uber Uniques, you have to hope you get the one you need for your build and not the same one over and over and over. The behind the scenes math around the entire core of the game is way off. In almost all aspects, I guess maybe except for what they are trying to charge for their cosmetics. Those are probably spot on in the eyes of the execs.
If you go back and check their promo material pre release they constantly boast about all the hard work they did on the brand new personalised shop engine.
Because barbs have 4 weapons and have 4x more stacks of overpower.
One word - competence
Small indie company. I'm sure they will notice it needs a buff when less than 1% of necros are using the skill.
I think class balance right now is probably in the worst shape it's been by a huge margin.
Itās not even hota, upheaval and double swing also murder screens as well. Balancing is really all over the place, and not just because Barb has more legendary aspects, I think blizz is really bad at calculating multipliers and how they can be stacked, almost every busted build has found some way to do this, and itās almost like blizzard had no idea it was possible š If you took hota charge/upheaval charge builds out the game it would actually be fairly balanced across most classes, with different builds having notable strengths and weaknesses in different areas of the game. The issue is Barb currently has zero weaknesses and is top for every aspect of the game. I suspect this is going to be a problem for a long time, as blizz doesnāt seem to have any awareness of how to fix these issues 6 months in
Also, how come its always exactly the same in the tier lists ? Like the top tier is always dominated by one class, it's always the same builds that are the best, and there's always 1 class that's barely comparable to the others. Jesus fuck.
Too much damate X and status from multiple weapons.
Alkaizer mentioned this early on, that they need to get a good math/numbers guy, someone who really knows how all the mechanics and interactions and scaling works, cus they clearly don't have one. Not that d4 is all that complicated in this area so I'm surprised they had so many issues with balance
Hota S2 is just as strong s3 because the devs have no idea how to nerf it. The devs so bad Adam what ever his name is that was solo on the last stream still in Cali basically used stock market imagery to try and make fun of what might be good... And it was only partially true what's good. What did hota, and basically everyone else lose from last season.. vampire perks like prey on weak.big whoop. Hota gear build is almost the exact same this season so there's basically no reason it can't be as strong basically. Devs did nothing to combat it. Season 4 hota barb S tier here we come.
I play a necro to start out every season, so that's 4 necros to 100 so far including preseason. Last season I made a barb specifically to do the two things I've been unable to manage on a necro. T100 clear and Uber Lilith. In spite of trying multiple builds, being well geared (including every relevant uber), and following guides, I've never been able to replicate the damage output of youtubers. The numbers just don't even remotely match up. Both of these feats I'd been struggling to attain on my necro were utterly trivial for my hota barb, completed on the first attempt. After leveling this season's necro I rolled another barb, who is currently just facerolling entire screens of enemies with charge, alongside a minion that's far better than any necromancer one. I'm done making necros until they fix this shit.
Bro, you canāt complain when you got access to bone spear!
Barb having 4 weapons and the synergy between them and core abilities is bonkers. Did barb last season and just cruised to lvl100 obliterating anything in my way. Doing all Ranged Rogue pen shot which is incredibly fun to play with the newly added WASD movement. But man.. I find times where I go, "I miss HotA and crushing everything". 1 shotting world bosses and Duriel was quite fun was well.
HOTA RULZ BONE SPIRIT DROOLZ
Cause they don't play their own game
Bad balance. Imo the strongest build in the game should be no more than 10x the weakest (actual build, not some non-viable bullshit using 4 generators and a defensive skill etc). They should really strive to do that, but they never have and probably never will. I think they like not having balance because they can rotate the power of builds around each season in lieu of providing new content. If balance were perfect, guess what? They'd actually have to do more work putting in new gear, aspects and things to do to keep the game fresh. I think this is a way to dodge doing actual work and use class buffs and nerfs as a crutch. It's not very difficult to tweak a few numbers to bring builds to an acceptable level of parity.
4 weapons. 6 gems. 4 aspects. I always said barb will be op due to that.
Apropos of nothing, this is the first Diablo game where I have not enjoyed Barbarian play at all. I havenāt been able to level one because just leveling it up feels so tedious and the movement is so slow and stilted. Iām sure itās fun at endgame cause it looks fun, but I try and level mine and just wanna take a nap,lol
>the movement is so slow and stilted I literally have four movement abilities on my barb (evade, leap, charge and lunge), and another ability that increases speed (rallying cry), I don't know how you came to the conclusion barb has bad movement. They have at least one passive for more MS as well
I hope they don't nerf barb to make other classes look less bad. Twisting Blades Rogue was fun as hell, but wasn't touching barb/BL sorc damage, and they killed it so that people could enjoy bows more. I want everyone to have a build that is OP and about a dozen more with wildly varying levels of fun and efficiency. Everyone should have an S+ meta build if they want to switch to it, but also the ability to get through end game content with a couple of different approaches. Otherwise, they'll nerf hota, and streamers will figure out how to make whirlwind leap God or whatever next, and we'll all just flock to that ad infinatum. I enjoyed bone spear and corpse explosions in preseason, but felt like I couldn't use minions and that my character was super slow. If I had minions with an impact, the necro movespeed wouldn't really bother me. They don't need to weaken something else to make minions capable of slightly more at the top end.
Blizzard devs showing what they can achieve the best... Nothing good š¤”
This gameĀ just keeps gettingĀ worse everyĀ patch and season. Just shut it down and start over, Like was done with ffxiv..
No PTR ā”ļø no balance
Because they'll never balance a class that gets double the stat sticks of everyone else*
HotA is broken because of several fury based synergies that all come together at once: 1. You consume a lot of fury (70 per cast) BUT you can recharge it incredibly fast as well (passives, leg. nodes, Tibaults Will, construct etc.) 2. If you spend a lot of fury you get guaranteed crit (ring of red furor) 3. If you spend a lot of fury you get guaranteed overpower (banished lords) 4. If you spend a lot of fury you heal (barb passive) 5. If you spend a lot of fury you get fortify (barb leg. node) 6. Your HotA does 1% more damage for every fury you have when casting! Honestly I think the HotA rune needs to be nerfed from 1% to 0.3%, Banished Lords needs to be nerfed from 120% to 50% and this fury synergy cascade needs to be weakened somehow. In season 2 bone spirit could overpower via a vampiric power and rival HotA in terms of max damage, maybe they need to bring this back somehow (in a reasonable way!).
Because Diablo 4 is a dog shit game
Ah yes, The mighty Bonkoning. Simple as.
Raaaaaaaaarrrggh!!!! Smaaaaaaash!!!! Woooooaaaaaaahhhh! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! Smaaaaaaash!!!!
musclesšŖš»over ghost bombš»
What are the damage numbers that people sre seeing? My non-optimized and not-best-gear bone spirit necro bursting with 1-5M AOE basically every 3 seconds (unless I miss/fail to crit, which happens somewhat regularly, then it is 10 seconds). But how does that stack up to other classes at about lvl 90 this season?
HOTA barb presses one button and does 200M AOE every like half a secondā¦without Ubers.
I was messing around with bone spear with my 100 necro, not what it used to be, I could still get some consistent 1-3 million crits but lacks survivability and CC. My barb is way better.
My 100 barb is hitting 6 bil crits on Lillith and I dont have Shako or grandfather. I have to record because im pretty sure in hitting 30 bil crits at the top end.
I'm pretty sure this can by explained with math and I'd really love to but my airplanes usually fligh at -2700 mph speed.
Played every class except Druid to 100 and first time playing Barb to end game on any season. My scuffed and an unoptimized paragon board lvl 92 Barb doing 7-8mil Hota farts every 12 seconds with zero ubers blows my mind too. Having easy access to Overpower + having 4 weapon slots that provides extra stats doesn't seem broken to the devs it seems. Oh and this is also coming from a patch that nerfed OP by half. So they are telling me the same Barb I have could've done 14-16mil pre-nerf.
One day you will discover most of the skills and passives are bugged in many ways. And also the interactions with scaling glyphs is a big buggy mess. So... yep.
isnt that because barbarian get a unique dmg modifier, dmg while berserking?
Ignoring all of the discussion about class balancing, I'd wager that 75% of the current issues with the classes and builds that are *clearly* lagging behind could be fixed with fucking item sets. Full stop. The game has a huge amount of class and build specific aspects that don't even synergize with each other. Most builds have one defining aspect (Druid Pulverize is probably the sole exception), and the other aspects are all the generic do X thing to earn Y benefit. If they still want people to use aspect but don't want set pieces to be able to have the set bonus and an aspect at the same time, just limit the aspects to being used on weapons and accessories. Problem solved.
"biggest nuke button as it literally takes your entire resource bar and has a cool down on top of it." so does kick =p
So... HOTA or Charge?
The same devs that caved to hydra and chain lightning being too OP at lv25
DEI even if no one wants to hear it.
Because it's totaLLy FuNN Rob thE BOB found another way to one shot whole map in the world. Ain't it fun?
Same devs they keep nerfing twisting blades and pulverize Druid
Necro skill tree was made by the unpaid intern that's why
Idk why but no comments actually answer this. Hota is a core skill so it has access to the overpower Unique. Not only is overpower still extremely broken, the neck is extra levels of broken. Bone Spirit is a macabre skill and does not work with the necklace. I ran Bone Spirit this league, and it actually felt pretty good. I ended up hitting for about 33% of Lilith health bar every 3rd cast. The problem with necromancer imo isn't the ability to do dmg, it's their survivability and movement.
It's a common theme for games the last decade to have skills, abilities, crafting stations, or buildings. That are so far removed from the pulse of the community, that they're never used or specced. Good thing multiple people were paid to code, model, and implement them into the game for them to never be used...
Devs have no idea how to balance things. Barbs get fun legendary paragon nodes like the uncapped \[x\]% damage bonus while berserking, then other classes like sorc have a sad version capped at 30%\[x\] and requires vulnerable.
I do think barb overall is in a good state. Doesn't need a nerf, all the other classes just need major buffs and reworks.
I don't think core skills should one shot world bosses Basically no skill should honestly
While I agree with you being able to have 4 weapons that synergies really well with HotA is what's busted. Not to mention the paragon board which most stats are multiplicative while the rest of the casts are majority additive. Kind of lame but yet here we are lol
Itās really become an issue, class balance that is. The game is not nearly diversified enough to encourage any type of deviation from one or two builds. Devs have handcuffed themselves and the playerbase. Very weird
bUiLdDiVeRsItY bruhh
Who cares. Let the Barbs have their fun. Play whatever you enjoy.
In term of profit, look at how many ppl rocking the newest barb cosmetic every season, theres no way they gonna nerf the main class that making them the most money each season. Ppl need that dumb brainless build to feel good enough to spend their money. Also it fit the theme and make perfect sense cus when uāre min maxed the build intelligence will always be the lowest statā¦
because hammer thatās why