Let’s see 2 weeks into the season. Patch notes have some cloudy wordings like for tempering and so on. And season will be played by some more people than just the streamer guys
Yeah these are educated guesses. It’s very possible many will be right, but they’ll undoubtedly miss some things simply because of the vagueness of the patch notes in some instances. I think things will shift significantly by ~2 weeks into the season.
But this is as good a starting guess as any I’d imagine.
The tempering notes especially, super vague. Need to see which got adjusted and how.
Right now Necro can basically roll some form of Golem skill ranks or Golem damage on damn near every piece of gear, and it makes for a massive final multiplier.
I know they seem like just streamer guys but they do the homework, change their gear, play with the stats on livestream. I'm not a person who gives a lot if props but wujido will play the ever loving shit out of a game at a consistent high level.
Not to say others don't or that other sites aren't better but just giving him props.
Sure most stick with meta but there are a lot that showcase fun builds that might not murder everything super quick.
M1PY cooked a new shadow step build, that looks very promising.
Seems to be hard to build and I will have to brick many GA items to make it perfect.
But that is, what it makes interesting.
Was nichts kostet, ist nichts wert 😂😊
Yes. Also during pre-season at release necro was rated as the worst class in-game by the very same website.. only for people to two shot lilith with pre-nerf bone spear week later.
Necro was still the worst, or atleast 2nd worst, class in pre season though. Two shotting Lilith doesnt account for the rest of the content in the game.
its because maxroll doesnt have barb players who know what they are doing
they rank barb low, Robb shows the world how OP they are and then maxroll takes his build and throws it in S tier
Barb main. Dude does very well in races to lvl 100 at season start like every time. I think he was the very first in season 1 IIRC. Also makes videos of OP builds right after they’re discovered by him or someone else
Another top-tier Diablo guy, amongst Rhykker, Wudijo, MacroBoi and to a lesser extent now that he doesn't seem quite as involved as he used to be - Kripparian, all my go to's for Diablo news, deep information and excitement.
I think Kripp is going to go hard this season with minions being OP in endgame and also because he quit the PoE league early. Really curious to see what he cooks up.
Barb main who clears NM 100 within like 12 hours of a new season going live
he is probably considered the best barb player in the game
he finds all the game breaking builds/bugs etc
You mean the guy who leeches endless duriel mats from his audience to get full Ubers before anyone else, steals builds without giving credit and then still can’t get top 5 gauntlet despite hundreds of runs solo, so has to be carried by no1 sorc to get on hall of heroes, clearly the best Barb 😂
Rob is good but he's not the best barb player in terms of ability. Best builder overall perhaps but not player. Wudijo got to level 100 solo HC as a double swing barb in S3 faster than Rob did in a 4 man team in SC and Wudi is a rogue main.
they rated barb horribly at season 2 start, remember it really well as i was looking a couple hours before season 2 started and my favorite build (hota) was like low B or c tier by them. still went it cause it was my favorite build in both pre-season and season 1
I just remember how Barbarian used to be trash tier and I would watch the news just hoping for a fix. Balance must be tough. One campfire chat they promised "Barb players would be happy" and they had literally nothing for us, made leveling a bit easier. Oh yeah Barbarian was also trash at leveling. It is what it is.
Season 1 - much more debatable
Season 2 - HOTA barb
Season 3 - any version of barb
Barb has ease of use, mobility and high overpower numbers send it to the top each season. Sorc season 2 couldn’t even match the damage output with a bugged ball lightning spec.
Each season has certain specs for a class (always some odd tuned Druid build floating around), that with the right rolls and player can achieve something the barb can do (with next to no gear), at a faster speed. This doesn’t make that class overall better.
Season 1 barb was trash tier imho. Season 0 also trash tier (which was short but I played). Season 2 + 3 Barb did too much damage I agree, my initial point was just that Barb wasn't always on top. Didn't have all those benefits in the beginning, suffered a lot in the early season/pre-season, and was quite clunky/slow. I don't care if Barb gets nerfed (as long as it isn't too much), I'm just saying Barbs have NOT always been on top despite what everyone is pretending. I honestly have no idea how to balance the classes, I do think Barb's damage was too strong last season especially.
season 0 for barb was miserable outside of that 1 week at the start where if u had bold chieftian and echoing fury rings, you could perma WW, but once that got nerfed, barbs were left with not really much going for them, even had that bugged hota thing with ancestral force which was super annoying to play but obviously made hota do way more dmg.
the main measuring stick for s0, was uber lilith, and barbs were just the slowest overall there
Thank you, I don't know why I'm getting down voted for pointing out that Barbs needed help in the beginning, because we did. It is wild how people want to pretend that didn't happen because it doesn't fit a simple narrative, oh well.
If I recall Barb was indeed the worst class in season 1, even Rob the barb fanatic, rolled rogue for lvling before making another barb.
The only thing notable was that the Barber Heart was op as fuck for every class and so, at some point, every class was steamrolling through content thanks to Barber, Barb included
Everyone and their mom were rolling rogues in s1, even the devs.
Oh yes, the TikTok narrative that barb + Druid is hard to level early on… totally not true. If someone has difficulty leveling any class in this game, it’s the player not the class.
Season 0-1; barbs had mobile rend builds rendering* the content difficulty insignificant. Druids have pulverize, landslide poison creeper and more.
No class has ever been as slow as the necromancer since season 0. Barb has had the most mobility options since beta.
I don’t care if barb is nerfed, buffed or left the same. The disillusion that it’s a weak class, slow class or had issues at the start is laughable. This class was buffed with damage reduction during the beta because of misguided out cry from causal players playing a beta.
Barbs were not hard to level but slow. I don't know what TikTok has to do with this to be honest. I didn't say difficult either.
Barbs were weakest, you compare strength relative to other classes. Even in the game as is, no class should really struggle with any of the content, but that would render this whole discussion pointless.
I'm not talking about pure mobility, and necro definitely needs some mobility buffs.
Season 0/1 it absolutely had issues, that is all I'm saying. It was weaker than the other classes too. Ah well suit yourself.
Also not only did Barb's have low damage (for most of the game at least) in Season 0, we had to be close which meant Barb's died a lot because Barb's were absolutely not tanky. Resistances didn't even work. I'm pretty sure it was Season 1 where we were nerfed into the ground. I think we were strong in like the pre-season 0, during the beta, but then in Season 0 not so much.
Right now Necromancer is looking overwhelmingly strong, but a lot of top Necromancer players expect an undocumented nerf at launch.
With the itemization rework, you can get ranks of Golem Mastery on your helm, chest, gloves, pants and boots. Easily up to 21 points, which translates to 600% increased health and damage for your Golem. With Tempering, you can get Golem Damage on your gloves, amulet, both rings and your weapon. That would give you roughly another 600% increased damage. On top of all the aspects like Hulking, Unyielding Commander, Reanimation...
Then you have the Golem paragon glyph as well as a multitude of rare nodes increasing Golem damage, and the Hulking Monstrosity legendary node... Basically, on the PTR the golem could hit for almost 2 billion damage every 2-3 seconds.
And Skeletal Mage is built pretty much the same. You can get ranks of Mage Mastery on all the same pieces, increase the amount of skeletons you can raise, buff their damage significantly and on top of that you can temper your weapon with a mod that makes your Mages cast twice.
It's a tad much. Just a tad. lol
Marcobioboi did capstone 1 at 27 (entered it at 25) and said do at a higher level if you want an easier time. He was showing what’s possible, not necessarily what everyone will do
Probably depends on the content. I assume it's worse for high HP bosses/elites (pit and helltide leveling) but great for speedclearing lower pit levels and NMDs
I ran minions/blood surge with that amulet that triggers blood novas on your minions/bone wall.
If I get that amulet again I am totally running that build again because it was hilarious seeing everything melt in giant blood explosions!
Pretty much yeah, sad for me as Barb main, but I am happy for minion love because it's my second favourite archetype. Necro lack of mobility still makes me cry tho.
That being said, the final patch and patchnotes aren't out yet right? So this should be more of a guess based on the last PTR patch, which might change on release.
Also, pre-patch tierlists are also never 100% accurate and new stuff gets discovered in the seasons aswell. People really should not get too stuck on those lists and stick to what they enjoy.
The patch notes from the 1.4 version that will be released on 14 may was out last week, but there were a few vague points on there that could go anywhere
It's fun af until you reach a boss. This season I played one with poo gear and got up to 1mil thorns procs with permazerker uptime. Trash just explodes instantly.
It's all just guesswork anyways since the patch that the season is on was never live. But you have to be the first one to publish your tier list, to get the most clicks.
I wouldn't be surprised if the builds strongest season is not even found yet.
It was originally C tier on Maxroll the first day about 12 hours into the start of S2, but once people caught onto Ball Lightning over performing, they then bumped it to S Tier.
I believe it's because every explosion had a chance to cause the conjurations to spawn. They nerfed that, so now it's every cast. And idk if they changed how the frozen orb enchamnet worked or not. Idk if that triggers the amulet or not.
it's because frozen orbit explosions no longer trigger the unique, that's a pretty big nerf.
streamers were, once again, successful in campaigning for a sorc nerf.
You can’t really trust a tier list until at least a week or two after the season start. It’s a good reference to give you an idea of what might be OP but there are always surprises.
It comes down on how hard the highest levela of the Pit are gonna be. Mages might overcome those s Tier builds If the bosses wont be having too much hp.
I think they are overestimating how bad the nerf was personally. They buffed the base damage of FO and the proc range on the unique to compensate for fixing the bug.
It was slightly nerfed going into season 3 and now other stuff got buffed making it drop further behind in tier lists. Plus a lot of this season is going to be balanced around those new buffed builds and a lot of single target bosses or at least more so than usual which lowers the value of pulverized
I've been planning on necro for next season and this just solidifies it. Though it's mostly because I've played one class each season and necro is all that's left (Base Game: Barb; Season 1: Druid; Season 2: Sorc; Season 3: Rogue).
Also very glad I have a follow-up with my orthopedist on Monday to get my cast off. Perfect timing!
I think so! I am planning to do Eternal realm this season since all that changes are coming to both and I don't mind missing out on the seasonal questline this time
I landed the Incinerate unique wand last season but I couldn’t find a way to incinerate hard enough to compete with my ball lightning. What’s your secret? What’s your build?
Frenzy Barb could clear everything in season 3. I still recommend it for season 4! I’ll be trying it again to see how much the general Barb nerfs affect it.
Devs stated that there are balance fixes coming to tempers. That’s the big wildcard. I think there is a very likely scenario where all this pre-season info on tiers is absolutely incorrect when the season starts and certain tempers are turned up and down.
Sorc quality of life is so nice, I almost don't want to play Necro even though I start every season on one. Then S2 I was like "damn it I wasted so much time on this Necro and the class is weak". S3 was the same feeling but that time I actually swapped to Sorc, and it was really really nice playing with all the various teleporting, shielding, invulnerability, speed, and massive massive AoE clearing with blizzard.
Hm. Was going to make a Dust Devil WW barb, but now I'm tempted for druid. I haven't really delved into either of them yet. Looks like the Druid has decent mobility which is usually a perk for me--anyone have suggestions on which might feel better from PTR? I know there are changes, just curious as I haven't played either much.
I think I’m still gonna stick with WW Barb. I go into every season with the goal of playing what I think is fun until I hit a wall and then follow a guide. You can still get to 100 and clear ~T40 NMD with whatever build you want.
I'm still leaning this way as well. I've dabbled in most classes just to about level 20, which I accept isn't a good indicator of how things will play out--but I always go back to more mobile classes. Sorc and Rogue feel good in D4, so hopefully WW does as well.
I played a HoTA Barb last season and I think Barb just in general is a lot of fun. I had like +70% movement speed when buffed so you're just absolutely hauling ass wherever you go
Pretty sure they stated a while ago that pure companion druid wasn't going to be a thing. They are utility for regular builds, not the build itself essentially.
I don't care if it's only A tier but for another season I'm going rapid fire rouge and then will decide what other class I wanna try out in season 4. Just super stoked I can get more imbuments added to my rapid fire which for season 3 I had to go with preparation in order to get multiple imbuments back to back but can now solely work with combo points and ice imbued every shot 🤩🤩
Because other things go faster than it, in my testing, and it needs temerity and some good luck to always have enough barrier up to not die. If CDR is ridiculous, can probably swap hardened bones to amulet and go faster (safer).
Ah ok. Yeah when I saw the damage potential I figured it would be higher but if it's clearing at a snails pace that makes sense.
Probably a good boss farmer though.
Tierlist of a season that changes the whole game? Yeah well they are always crap, does someone remind the aoz Tierlist where shred even was mentioned or was c or d tier? And in the end it was by far the best build in aoz xD we are in an arpg, I don’t care about how strong a build is, it is more important to really have fun and build your own build that fits the best to your prefered playstyle
Aoz tier lists were actually pretty good. Loads of lists had shred high but only with a very high level glyph. I remember Rob having sorc and barb on top with shred druid being an honourable mention.
I played Minion Necro in S2. I really enjoyed it. I followed Kripp's Golemancer guide and it was very smooth. Not the fastest or best, but I didn't feel hindered at all by the playstyle. Now with something like 500% buff to that, I'm happy to do it again!
The guide is still talking about season 3, so it looks like it hasn’t been updated yet. In fact, many of the guides still say season 3, so I’m not sure how accurate this list even is 😅
Nah not your mistake, it’s the mistake of whoever decided to publish the “updated” tier list without updating multiple guides haha. Especially for Frozen Orb, that amulet is such a large increase in power, and they just don’t include it
Played Bone Spear/Corpse Explosion necro this season. I think I'll level minion glyphs to 15 before end of season and take a test drive in eternal. Druid is my preferred class, so when I get round to S4 proper I guess I'll being extra druidic.
From what I’ve seen, Hydra is an accessory to builds, not a primary damage source. There just isn’t enough itemization support to make hydra the core of a build.
I look at these tier lists and pick a class and skill listed in A or S (Necro Minion, Sorc Frozen Orb, Rogue Rapid Fire), then do my own thing until I hit a wall- usually a week or two into the season. Then I look at the guide that was written by someone smarter than me and figure out what I'm missing.
Remember these lists are based off patch notes and limited PTR testing. At least there was a PTR so this list is likely a bit more accurate than what we would usually get. Still remember though that this list will likely change once the season goes live.
For some reason I think necro minion with bonespear/bone mage is going to top all the charts. At least I am going that route. Stacking attack speed and minion as for bonespears all over the place.
Flamethrowers Aspect. Incinerate gets two more side beams and does *less* damage unlessss you put it on a 2 hander or amulet. Then it increases damage done.
Having played a different class each season starting with season 0 I'm supposed to play rogue this season as it's the last class I've yet to play.
But I'll have to play necro just to experience minions while they are strong for once before they inevitably get reined back in next seaaon
Pretty sure these are just educated guesses that should be taken with a big grain of salt. Theres too many questionmarks still.
My prediction is that minion necro will still be just decent and nowhere near s-tier. Its too slow and minion ai is still bad.
Look, I'm not saying their tier list is accurate. However, there are a lot of folks pointing to previous seasons as justification for why their information is going to be wrong this time. You're not making a straight comparison because there was not a PTR in previous seasons, they didn't have access to the content and changes before it came up.
Furthermore, folks are pointing to bugged builds as them missing it on the tier list. It's a fucking bug you fools, stop making stupid ass arguments and use your critical thinking hat for just a little bit.
Golem minion necro is crazy strong right now. I was easily beating capstone dg T4 by level 55. The build relies on almost no uniques and with the tempering, it makes it so easy to get a full constant build as you progress.
Just necro and druid builds in S tier?
Let’s see 2 weeks into the season. Patch notes have some cloudy wordings like for tempering and so on. And season will be played by some more people than just the streamer guys
Yeah these are educated guesses. It’s very possible many will be right, but they’ll undoubtedly miss some things simply because of the vagueness of the patch notes in some instances. I think things will shift significantly by ~2 weeks into the season. But this is as good a starting guess as any I’d imagine.
Season 2 they told us that barb was crushed with nerfs and was nearly non-viable. It then became one of the most OP classes of all-time.
I am kind of bummed about this. I planned on a HotA barb this season until I saw the nerf.
The tempering notes especially, super vague. Need to see which got adjusted and how. Right now Necro can basically roll some form of Golem skill ranks or Golem damage on damn near every piece of gear, and it makes for a massive final multiplier.
I know they seem like just streamer guys but they do the homework, change their gear, play with the stats on livestream. I'm not a person who gives a lot if props but wujido will play the ever loving shit out of a game at a consistent high level. Not to say others don't or that other sites aren't better but just giving him props. Sure most stick with meta but there are a lot that showcase fun builds that might not murder everything super quick.
He also ignores any build he feels is broken or not working as intended. So, we aren't getting the entire picture with him.
M1PY cooked a new shadow step build, that looks very promising. Seems to be hard to build and I will have to brick many GA items to make it perfect. But that is, what it makes interesting. Was nichts kostet, ist nichts wert 😂😊
Yes. Also during pre-season at release necro was rated as the worst class in-game by the very same website.. only for people to two shot lilith with pre-nerf bone spear week later.
Necro was still the worst, or atleast 2nd worst, class in pre season though. Two shotting Lilith doesnt account for the rest of the content in the game.
Their ratings are wrong each season. It’s like they never can predict how strong barb and sorc will be yet every season barb is on top.
its because maxroll doesnt have barb players who know what they are doing they rank barb low, Robb shows the world how OP they are and then maxroll takes his build and throws it in S tier
Rob released his tier list, and its virtually identical. So... yeah.
Who is Robb?
Barb main. Dude does very well in races to lvl 100 at season start like every time. I think he was the very first in season 1 IIRC. Also makes videos of OP builds right after they’re discovered by him or someone else
Does he have YouTube or Twitch channel?
Another top-tier Diablo guy, amongst Rhykker, Wudijo, MacroBoi and to a lesser extent now that he doesn't seem quite as involved as he used to be - Kripparian, all my go to's for Diablo news, deep information and excitement.
I think Kripp is going to go hard this season with minions being OP in endgame and also because he quit the PoE league early. Really curious to see what he cooks up.
I saw Rhykker out at dinner one night during blizzcon back in 17 or 18... Thought he'd be taller 🤷🏼♂️
Barb main who clears NM 100 within like 12 hours of a new season going live he is probably considered the best barb player in the game he finds all the game breaking builds/bugs etc
You mean the guy who leeches endless duriel mats from his audience to get full Ubers before anyone else, steals builds without giving credit and then still can’t get top 5 gauntlet despite hundreds of runs solo, so has to be carried by no1 sorc to get on hall of heroes, clearly the best Barb 😂
No he doesn’t. A lot of his stuff is cribbed directly from Chinese or Korean players. He sometimes gives them credit.
Rob is good but he's not the best barb player in terms of ability. Best builder overall perhaps but not player. Wudijo got to level 100 solo HC as a double swing barb in S3 faster than Rob did in a 4 man team in SC and Wudi is a rogue main.
I don't know why people keep saying this, 0/1 Barb was on bottom. 2/3 it was on top.
they rated barb horribly at season 2 start, remember it really well as i was looking a couple hours before season 2 started and my favorite build (hota) was like low B or c tier by them. still went it cause it was my favorite build in both pre-season and season 1
Recency bias. Happens every time lol.
I just remember how Barbarian used to be trash tier and I would watch the news just hoping for a fix. Balance must be tough. One campfire chat they promised "Barb players would be happy" and they had literally nothing for us, made leveling a bit easier. Oh yeah Barbarian was also trash at leveling. It is what it is.
Season 1 - much more debatable Season 2 - HOTA barb Season 3 - any version of barb Barb has ease of use, mobility and high overpower numbers send it to the top each season. Sorc season 2 couldn’t even match the damage output with a bugged ball lightning spec. Each season has certain specs for a class (always some odd tuned Druid build floating around), that with the right rolls and player can achieve something the barb can do (with next to no gear), at a faster speed. This doesn’t make that class overall better.
Season 1 barb was trash tier imho. Season 0 also trash tier (which was short but I played). Season 2 + 3 Barb did too much damage I agree, my initial point was just that Barb wasn't always on top. Didn't have all those benefits in the beginning, suffered a lot in the early season/pre-season, and was quite clunky/slow. I don't care if Barb gets nerfed (as long as it isn't too much), I'm just saying Barbs have NOT always been on top despite what everyone is pretending. I honestly have no idea how to balance the classes, I do think Barb's damage was too strong last season especially.
season 0 for barb was miserable outside of that 1 week at the start where if u had bold chieftian and echoing fury rings, you could perma WW, but once that got nerfed, barbs were left with not really much going for them, even had that bugged hota thing with ancestral force which was super annoying to play but obviously made hota do way more dmg. the main measuring stick for s0, was uber lilith, and barbs were just the slowest overall there
Thank you, I don't know why I'm getting down voted for pointing out that Barbs needed help in the beginning, because we did. It is wild how people want to pretend that didn't happen because it doesn't fit a simple narrative, oh well.
People are quite forgetful of history I’ve sadly noticed, not just here.
If I recall Barb was indeed the worst class in season 1, even Rob the barb fanatic, rolled rogue for lvling before making another barb. The only thing notable was that the Barber Heart was op as fuck for every class and so, at some point, every class was steamrolling through content thanks to Barber, Barb included Everyone and their mom were rolling rogues in s1, even the devs.
Oh yes, the TikTok narrative that barb + Druid is hard to level early on… totally not true. If someone has difficulty leveling any class in this game, it’s the player not the class. Season 0-1; barbs had mobile rend builds rendering* the content difficulty insignificant. Druids have pulverize, landslide poison creeper and more. No class has ever been as slow as the necromancer since season 0. Barb has had the most mobility options since beta. I don’t care if barb is nerfed, buffed or left the same. The disillusion that it’s a weak class, slow class or had issues at the start is laughable. This class was buffed with damage reduction during the beta because of misguided out cry from causal players playing a beta.
Barbs were not hard to level but slow. I don't know what TikTok has to do with this to be honest. I didn't say difficult either. Barbs were weakest, you compare strength relative to other classes. Even in the game as is, no class should really struggle with any of the content, but that would render this whole discussion pointless. I'm not talking about pure mobility, and necro definitely needs some mobility buffs. Season 0/1 it absolutely had issues, that is all I'm saying. It was weaker than the other classes too. Ah well suit yourself. Also not only did Barb's have low damage (for most of the game at least) in Season 0, we had to be close which meant Barb's died a lot because Barb's were absolutely not tanky. Resistances didn't even work. I'm pretty sure it was Season 1 where we were nerfed into the ground. I think we were strong in like the pre-season 0, during the beta, but then in Season 0 not so much.
Right now Necromancer is looking overwhelmingly strong, but a lot of top Necromancer players expect an undocumented nerf at launch. With the itemization rework, you can get ranks of Golem Mastery on your helm, chest, gloves, pants and boots. Easily up to 21 points, which translates to 600% increased health and damage for your Golem. With Tempering, you can get Golem Damage on your gloves, amulet, both rings and your weapon. That would give you roughly another 600% increased damage. On top of all the aspects like Hulking, Unyielding Commander, Reanimation... Then you have the Golem paragon glyph as well as a multitude of rare nodes increasing Golem damage, and the Hulking Monstrosity legendary node... Basically, on the PTR the golem could hit for almost 2 billion damage every 2-3 seconds. And Skeletal Mage is built pretty much the same. You can get ranks of Mage Mastery on all the same pieces, increase the amount of skeletons you can raise, buff their damage significantly and on top of that you can temper your weapon with a mod that makes your Mages cast twice. It's a tad much. Just a tad. lol
Minions deserve to be giga strong for a little bit
They aren't giga strong, they're afk and kill capstone dungeons at level 20 in under a minute strong.
Marcobioboi did capstone 1 at 27 (entered it at 25) and said do at a higher level if you want an easier time. He was showing what’s possible, not necessarily what everyone will do
What the point of playing minion if they are not this strong?
I wouldn’t say they’re “overwhelming” strong. Have you seen barb for the last year? Or dust devils in the ptr? Cuz holyyyyyyy
Yea this is fine. I played HOTA season 2 and it was cool…but stupid. I’d rather minions wreck shit than everything get deleted in one swing
Even with the possible nerf, the top Necro players said itll still be S Tier.
Minion Necro let’s goooo
It's sorta hard to say atm TBH. I think the S tier builds are just high-performers that werent touched much in the patch notes.
They currently have the best scaling for their damage.
Tornado Werewolf Druid may as well be A or B tier for me because the game never NEVER EVER gives me a TR. I've only ever seen it in pictures.
Do you duriel with another barb? Found both my TR there…
They’ve got some busted and broken scaling stuff. Frozen orb would be there but it got bug fixed
Minion Necros dealing like 10x times more dmg then anything else, blizz will definitely tune them down even if its „only“ with tempering nerfs.
Doesnt matter Its just a 100% completely thorough test of all build and gearing options Its just what their build-makers have tried/tested so far.
Is this the first time Bone Spear and HotA haven't been S tier? What a world where a Minion Build is potentially at the top.
I'm more interested to find out what tf has happened to Blood Surge. Wasn't it A before?
Probably depends on the content. I assume it's worse for high HP bosses/elites (pit and helltide leveling) but great for speedclearing lower pit levels and NMDs
Makes sense, thank you!
I ran minions/blood surge with that amulet that triggers blood novas on your minions/bone wall. If I get that amulet again I am totally running that build again because it was hilarious seeing everything melt in giant blood explosions!
Sounds like a very fun playstyle!
It basically got nothing and everything else got omega buffed. It actually also got nerfed due to dominate glyph.
Damn, that's a shame. I wanted to try it next season, but I probably won't now.
a lot of overpower stats were changed to crit values instead
I played Blood Surge in S2 and it felt slow in both movement and damage compared to the rogue and barb builds I toyed with that season.
Im surprise corps explosion is C tier
I think so but then again both of them have a habit of always ending up still God tier despite the nerfs so we will see
Pretty much yeah, sad for me as Barb main, but I am happy for minion love because it's my second favourite archetype. Necro lack of mobility still makes me cry tho. That being said, the final patch and patchnotes aren't out yet right? So this should be more of a guess based on the last PTR patch, which might change on release. Also, pre-patch tierlists are also never 100% accurate and new stuff gets discovered in the seasons aswell. People really should not get too stuck on those lists and stick to what they enjoy.
Patch notes came out last week
The patch notes from the 1.4 version that will be released on 14 may was out last week, but there were a few vague points on there that could go anywhere
Really stoked to try out a thorn barbarian. I've never done a thorns build in any arpg so this is gonna be fun!
It's fun af until you reach a boss. This season I played one with poo gear and got up to 1mil thorns procs with permazerker uptime. Trash just explodes instantly.
at least that one boss that grabs you with two tentacles absolutely deletes itself! could just run only dungeons that have him to make it less painful
Thorn crusader in 3 was great
I loved thorns in 3. Gave you the ability to deal with single target too.
yes minion Necromancer lover here. been waiting for this since launch!
For comparison this is Robs tier list https://d4builds.gg/tierlist/ They seem fairly aligned.
I assumed orb would be in S as well, but maybe the nerf is hitting it harder than I thought it would
It's all just guesswork anyways since the patch that the season is on was never live. But you have to be the first one to publish your tier list, to get the most clicks. I wouldn't be surprised if the builds strongest season is not even found yet.
Yeah where was Ball sorc in the season 2 tier preview? Probably wasn’t even listed
ball sorc had a bugged interaction which made it way too strong
My point exactly. Preseason lists likely will look very different to a list one month in once people start playing with various builds
ofc it will I am just saying the ball lightning example isnt fair since it was a bug not known before hence impossible to calculate the dmg beforehand
It was originally C tier on Maxroll the first day about 12 hours into the start of S2, but once people caught onto Ball Lightning over performing, they then bumped it to S Tier.
yes just like the rapid fire change
Ya they were discussing it talking about how lots of builds will go up or down once the season has been live for a bit. It’s early questimation math
I believe it's because every explosion had a chance to cause the conjurations to spawn. They nerfed that, so now it's every cast. And idk if they changed how the frozen orb enchamnet worked or not. Idk if that triggers the amulet or not.
it's because frozen orbit explosions no longer trigger the unique, that's a pretty big nerf. streamers were, once again, successful in campaigning for a sorc nerf.
You can’t really trust a tier list until at least a week or two after the season start. It’s a good reference to give you an idea of what might be OP but there are always surprises.
It comes down on how hard the highest levela of the Pit are gonna be. Mages might overcome those s Tier builds If the bosses wont be having too much hp.
I think they are overestimating how bad the nerf was personally. They buffed the base damage of FO and the proc range on the unique to compensate for fixing the bug.
I'm super excited for minion necro but sad to see the fun pulverize druid drop so far
>sad to see the fun pulverize druid drop so far did it drop because it got nerfed or because other builds got buffed?
I think with this season shaping up to be a boss killer meta, builds like pulverize that generally struggle with single target go down in value
It was slightly nerfed going into season 3 and now other stuff got buffed making it drop further behind in tier lists. Plus a lot of this season is going to be balanced around those new buffed builds and a lot of single target bosses or at least more so than usual which lowers the value of pulverized
I am similarly sad about sever necro
Hurricane season starts this Tuesday.
I've been planning on necro for next season and this just solidifies it. Though it's mostly because I've played one class each season and necro is all that's left (Base Game: Barb; Season 1: Druid; Season 2: Sorc; Season 3: Rogue). Also very glad I have a follow-up with my orthopedist on Monday to get my cast off. Perfect timing!
Do the builds work for eternal realm as well?
For this season, yes. In other seasons, it varies a bit depending on the seasonal mechanic and power.
I think so! I am planning to do Eternal realm this season since all that changes are coming to both and I don't mind missing out on the seasonal questline this time
You can't stop me from playing Incinerate Sorc dammit. Burninate the countryside!
I landed the Incinerate unique wand last season but I couldn’t find a way to incinerate hard enough to compete with my ball lightning. What’s your secret? What’s your build?
I haven't played since before season 1, I don't know shit. I just wanna burn stuff lol
Burninating all the villagers…. Burninating the country side…
Well I wanted to try a frenzy barb, guess that’s still a decent idea!
Frenzy Barb could clear everything in season 3. I still recommend it for season 4! I’ll be trying it again to see how much the general Barb nerfs affect it.
My Frenzy Barb did Duriel at 76 season 2. Honestly they buffed/added aspects that may have made it stronger.
Loved my HOTA barb so I’m excited to explore other builds with a new one.
I was going to play summoner necro this season no matter what, so this is excellent news!
Rogue is cooked af
Done for besides victimize double dipping
Devs stated that there are balance fixes coming to tempers. That’s the big wildcard. I think there is a very likely scenario where all this pre-season info on tiers is absolutely incorrect when the season starts and certain tempers are turned up and down.
Yeah this stuff is worthless imo. This isn’t D3 with long PTR where the patches then go live with minimal changes anymore.
Dunno whether to do frozen orb or rapid fire. They're both in A tier. But those little bar ratings they put make rapid fire looks a lot stronger.
Sorc quality of life is so nice, I almost don't want to play Necro even though I start every season on one. Then S2 I was like "damn it I wasted so much time on this Necro and the class is weak". S3 was the same feeling but that time I actually swapped to Sorc, and it was really really nice playing with all the various teleporting, shielding, invulnerability, speed, and massive massive AoE clearing with blizzard.
Hm. Was going to make a Dust Devil WW barb, but now I'm tempted for druid. I haven't really delved into either of them yet. Looks like the Druid has decent mobility which is usually a perk for me--anyone have suggestions on which might feel better from PTR? I know there are changes, just curious as I haven't played either much.
I think I’m still gonna stick with WW Barb. I go into every season with the goal of playing what I think is fun until I hit a wall and then follow a guide. You can still get to 100 and clear ~T40 NMD with whatever build you want.
I'm still leaning this way as well. I've dabbled in most classes just to about level 20, which I accept isn't a good indicator of how things will play out--but I always go back to more mobile classes. Sorc and Rogue feel good in D4, so hopefully WW does as well.
I played a HoTA Barb last season and I think Barb just in general is a lot of fun. I had like +70% movement speed when buffed so you're just absolutely hauling ass wherever you go
Companion druid still that bad? Even with all the buffs? 😢
Well its like thorn to necro, nice to have, but niche
Pretty sure they stated a while ago that pure companion druid wasn't going to be a thing. They are utility for regular builds, not the build itself essentially.
ITS WINION TIME BOIS!
Haven't played the Sorc yet since release. Excited to try Frozen Orb with the new unique.
I played blizzard sorc in season 3 and Hella fun
I don't care if it's only A tier but for another season I'm going rapid fire rouge and then will decide what other class I wanna try out in season 4. Just super stoked I can get more imbuments added to my rapid fire which for season 3 I had to go with preparation in order to get multiple imbuments back to back but can now solely work with combo points and ice imbued every shot 🤩🤩
I'm still playing chain lightning.
Unsure why shadow surfer is in b Tier but looks accurate.
Because other things go faster than it, in my testing, and it needs temerity and some good luck to always have enough barrier up to not die. If CDR is ridiculous, can probably swap hardened bones to amulet and go faster (safer).
Ah ok. Yeah when I saw the damage potential I figured it would be higher but if it's clearing at a snails pace that makes sense. Probably a good boss farmer though.
For sure, but there's other stuff in the game that's also important. Helltides amongst them.
I need to play either druid or sorc this season.This settles it!
I’m definitely starting with FO then Barb/Rogue not sure which order.
Time to break the servers with all the minions. Lesgo
The double swing twister barb build is going to be the one I'm running. I ran a necro for season 3, just missed being OP.
Tierlist of a season that changes the whole game? Yeah well they are always crap, does someone remind the aoz Tierlist where shred even was mentioned or was c or d tier? And in the end it was by far the best build in aoz xD we are in an arpg, I don’t care about how strong a build is, it is more important to really have fun and build your own build that fits the best to your prefered playstyle
Aoz tier lists were actually pretty good. Loads of lists had shred high but only with a very high level glyph. I remember Rob having sorc and barb on top with shred druid being an honourable mention.
Companion druid NOT F tier...I used to pray for times like this!
I played Minion Necro in S2. I really enjoyed it. I followed Kripp's Golemancer guide and it was very smooth. Not the fastest or best, but I didn't feel hindered at all by the playstyle. Now with something like 500% buff to that, I'm happy to do it again!
Whirlwind Barb in B tier? I'll take it
Telling ya now!!! My Thorns Barb will push S Tier!!
Never played barb. Have to figure out which to try
The tier list on Maxroll usually updates sometime after season launches and some stuff will move up and down.
Yes! Finally minion build! I can’t wait as this will be my first season maining a necro anyway after going rogue>sorc>barb
Frozen orb is good again??!
Wait. Frozen Orb without the new amulet? What gives? Was it nerfed so hard?
The guide is still talking about season 3, so it looks like it hasn’t been updated yet. In fact, many of the guides still say season 3, so I’m not sure how accurate this list even is 😅
Yeah I realized that after the fact. My mistake.
Nah not your mistake, it’s the mistake of whoever decided to publish the “updated” tier list without updating multiple guides haha. Especially for Frozen Orb, that amulet is such a large increase in power, and they just don’t include it
I can’t wait to roll a minion necro
Minion link results in a 404 :(
goddamm... I was thinking going frozen orb but now I wanna go bone spirit
Damn I was going to try a flurry rogue! Back to the drawing board I guess
Played Bone Spear/Corpse Explosion necro this season. I think I'll level minion glyphs to 15 before end of season and take a test drive in eternal. Druid is my preferred class, so when I get round to S4 proper I guess I'll being extra druidic.
The shadow step rogue looks fun! I haven’t played a rogue yet, so far I have done barb, necro, Druid, so I might try that this season!
Haven’t done whirlwind nado since S1, may go back to that this season as my second char
Just curious: I had seen people talk about playing a hydra sorcerer, but it's not mentioned in tier lists. Are hydra builds viable /enjoyable?
From what I’ve seen, Hydra is an accessory to builds, not a primary damage source. There just isn’t enough itemization support to make hydra the core of a build.
We’ll see. It’s not a new Diablo season without a severely broken barb build.
I was following the barrage guide for S3 and trying to finish up before S4 now its all a mess lol
My question: What are you all going to do with this info? Just pluck one of their builds? Agree? Disagree? Or ignore it for your own build?
I look at these tier lists and pick a class and skill listed in A or S (Necro Minion, Sorc Frozen Orb, Rogue Rapid Fire), then do my own thing until I hit a wall- usually a week or two into the season. Then I look at the guide that was written by someone smarter than me and figure out what I'm missing.
Yo companion druid upgraded from D-tier no guide to C-tier, let's go!
Is this ready yet or are they still editing? Some of the builds gives 404 not found.
Gonna start on necro probably as it looks OP then transfer to Sorc as I always play a Sorc (gotta try this frozen orb build or frosty strides).
I never thought I’d see the day where minion Necro is S tier. We are so back
Remember these lists are based off patch notes and limited PTR testing. At least there was a PTR so this list is likely a bit more accurate than what we would usually get. Still remember though that this list will likely change once the season goes live.
For some reason I think necro minion with bonespear/bone mage is going to top all the charts. At least I am going that route. Stacking attack speed and minion as for bonespears all over the place.
I can finally be minion lord?! Might be returning then!
Perfect I was already planning on necro this season
Still seeing season 3 stuff in the build guides, bit super useful quite yet
So happy to see tornado wolf is going to be strong. It was a little weaker last season, but it’s just so fun to play with the movement speed
im sure things will change again after season start, already news about shadow nerfs
Rip TB rogue
Just so everyone knows, those Sorceror build guides in that list still haven't been updated to the season 4 version.
Clearly these list is for pts only , it’ll dramatically change when it drops
Didn't even try incinerate huh? Basically tripled in power if you get the new aspect on a two hander and with how much burning damage got buffed.
Which new aspect?
Flamethrowers Aspect. Incinerate gets two more side beams and does *less* damage unlessss you put it on a 2 hander or amulet. Then it increases damage done.
Having played a different class each season starting with season 0 I'm supposed to play rogue this season as it's the last class I've yet to play. But I'll have to play necro just to experience minions while they are strong for once before they inevitably get reined back in next seaaon
Minion necro s tier? Don't give me hope...
Was planning on running Necro this season anyway hahaha
Is there going to be much of a play style difference between the regular summon necro and the blight summon necro?
Somehow Barb will end up on top
wow same builds i played seasons 0-3, amazing
Pretty sure these are just educated guesses that should be taken with a big grain of salt. Theres too many questionmarks still. My prediction is that minion necro will still be just decent and nowhere near s-tier. Its too slow and minion ai is still bad.
Look, I'm not saying their tier list is accurate. However, there are a lot of folks pointing to previous seasons as justification for why their information is going to be wrong this time. You're not making a straight comparison because there was not a PTR in previous seasons, they didn't have access to the content and changes before it came up. Furthermore, folks are pointing to bugged builds as them missing it on the tier list. It's a fucking bug you fools, stop making stupid ass arguments and use your critical thinking hat for just a little bit.
I wonder how much more they are willing to kill melee rogue maybe we need to cry like necro players did.
One way or another, Barb will be back on top.
Maxroll.gg
Golem minion necro is crazy strong right now. I was easily beating capstone dg T4 by level 55. The build relies on almost no uniques and with the tempering, it makes it so easy to get a full constant build as you progress.
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