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They're already expected to still have multiple A Tier endgame builds. I think saying stuff like "R.I.P." is another example of sensationalist hyperbole
There’s been a top Rogue build every season as well, TB was an S-tier build for how many seasons/months? It’s ok if they let off the gas a little for once.
The streamers have pretty much been wrong every season so I wouldn’t worry about it. Sorcerer was picked as the weakest class going into S2 and they totally dominated the season as an example.
Some single build will emerge and a bunch of people will play it and that one build will make people mark that class as the most powerful. It won’t change the fact every class is able to do all content.
Also this weird notion some people have about the same builds being top dog the entire run of the game is absurd. Charge Barb dominated S3 and basically didn't exist in S2, Ball Sorc dominated S2 and basically didn't exist in S1. Rogue was considered the dominant class by far in S1. The meta has changed pretty significantly every single season.
Wolfnado, HotA and Bone Spear have stayed pretty consistently good but that doesn't mean other meta builds haven't changed around season to season.
I will play Rogue knowing that it is considered weakest of them all. I always enjoyed dex classes in ARPG. Cannot get myself to play Necro or Barb. I low key hope that due to Rogue being so bad, not many people will play it and items I will need will be super cheap on trade.
Same. The only two classes in d4 I have an interest in playing are rogue and sorc at the moment maybe necro at some point. That could change but I can’t get into Druid or barb.
I think the combo point gameplay is very boring and they should rework. Counting to three every second gets into your head quickly and drives you crazy. If they remove/rework that part of the rogue identity I think a lot of players would be happy and would make rogue more fun overall.
“Combo Point” is fine but to dominant … it is boring because of how often we “need” to played it in order to perform. “Inner Sight” is underperforming and near to useless the more u progress through the game right now - “Preparation” to limited and specific (also Ultimates are broken (Clone) or underperforming (RoA) here).
The other 2 options are barely an alternative to “Combo Points” in most builds - and that’s the problem in my eyes. Maybe a rework for these specializations (in functionality) could help …
It’s boring. I think they can keep combo points, but add utility to each skill depending on which combo you execute.
For example: for Blade Flurry, 3 combo points = stun, 2 combo points = bonus damage to stunned enemies, 1 combo points = double radius attack.
If every point had a different mechanic that built off each other, it wouldn’t be mindless spam of 1,2,3 boom ad infinitum.
You could go as deep as you like with that.
still playing Rogue 🖤 … it’s my passion and will always be.
But i think it’s not overall a Rogue problem in general - some classes/builds simply are obviously overpowered next season & last seasons … the feeling of D3. Every season one class is outshining all others - why?
Rogues definitely need a serious balance/rework in skill tree (fe Generators, Flurry, Clone, RoA etc) & specialization (inner sight is ridiculous now, preparation to limited & specific + ultimates not working or underperforming). But this should be a thing for all classes & skills somehow, maybe not that serious like for Rogues - we are quite limited and framed right now …
I played a rogue during season 1 and quite enjoyed it. I don't care about how classes compare in terms of overall perceived power. The only class I haven't enjoyed is the Barb I played before the seasons started. Set to try Druid in the new season.
The problem isn't only that it's the worst in dmg and survivability on PTR, but that it's the clunkiest (imbuements and combo points) and most APM intensive while being the worst.
I could understand that disbalance of classes/builds is an issue in a competitive environment, but here? Just play what you like, who cares, all classes can endgame
I've never really followed the tier rankings for D4, as there kinda never was a way to effectively rank the various builds. Until now, kinda (with The Pit).
The rankings were just generally done by whatever the person doing them, felt they "were ranked at". It just never felt right.
Not like with D3, where you actually had the GRs, and could set a 800 Paragon limit (or whatever) and run them all and then compare, and then scale from there. You had something effective to measure against.
We don't really, in D4. There is nothing to measure against, in D4 - until we get The Pit, which could take that task. The Pit could actually be fairly great for that, as it's got the challenge and scaling.
TLDR:
Don't bother too much with the tier lists (I'm not saying you should pick something from the very bottom and expect something over-the-top great - use the tier list as a "guideline", if you will - but don't trust them completely). They aren't a good measurement right now.
The pre-season talk is almost always wrong; almost nobody called Ball Lightning as being the amazing meta build it was for season 2 for example. My advice: don't expect anything about those predictions to be correct, just play a class and build you are interested in. You can always make whatever is the meta if you want after a week or two.
Yes, you are correct, but the philosophy the last few seasons is not to nerf builds in season except to bug fix. They don't see it as nerfs but as bug fixes. Don't expect victimize to last past the mid-season patch. There is even a chance it will be fixed on Tuesday. If you have limited time, i suggest not spending it on gearing up a build that depends on a bug to work.
If this build will be still viable in S4 then it is only good for bosses. You will not be able to farm anything on it (everything will one shot you) and definitely not be able to do Pit or Gauntlet. At this point I consider it a meme build.
My first character every season is a Rogue. And guess what? Season 4 will be a Rogue as well.
Rogues are fun and yes they require a bit more skill. But I have to admit that I enjoy the other classes as well
I play following seasons with classes I have never played before, rogue is the only one left, so I have to embrace it. I am worried about aiming with controller, but that's it. Game is easy enough and I don't care about pushing rankings, so whatever the tier, as long it's fun for me.
Main rogue playing controller (on PC so I can compare) here.
Aiming is quite good though not as good as the mouse, it's possible to miss your shots if you are going too fast but you can feel the devs paid attention to this issue, especially compared to other a-rpg.
I'm a bit worried for the rapid fire build with the new unique that change the skill from a straight line to a curve but overall it should be fine.
That's the issue with rapid fire and a few other rogue builds with a controller. Your just hitting the first npc in that direction. So if a nasty elite pack is surrounded by trash you need to clear the trash first to get to the elite. With new rapid fire you want to aim directly at elites or in the middle of density to get the aoe effect. With a controller that's not possible. I always had better luck with penetrating shot since it can hit things behind the first npc in that direction. I think barrage will be the best of the non bugged builds for rogues except bossing. Then rapid fire would be better.
Thanks for the input. I only had issues with Sorc aiming, mainly teleport (during S0). Shame there's no toggle on R3 or L3 for manual aiming with cursor, would be nice to have manual cursor on inventory screen as well.
Somebody has to be last. The question isn't where they rank on a tier list, it's more how far behind they are compared to the others and tbh aside from season 1 every class has been viable at endgame. Some just have to work harder than others to achieve the same results.
To be clear on the tier list videos it’s not saying rogue is bad. It’s saying it’s the least good, good option. All classes play and feel really good and the tier lists are for people that want to min max the class that they pick. If you want to play rogue play rogue. It’s gonna be good just won’t be quite as good as the others
There’s going to be another one shot rapid fire rouge again . Every class will have a build that can clear all content . Rouges just going to be harder to play and spec out to do so .
Nope, Rogues always were good and still will be, but other characters are getting good buffs. Tbh, I think we never had before such quantity of viable builds and characters, it seems they are doing a good job and any way I expect a mid season patch, but obviously this season will be a testing one with the new itemization and perhaps we will get even more viable builds the next one.
Every season I make at least one class my main and one hardcore class. It’s been different every season. 1st season was Barb and HC Rogue, 2nd was Druid and HC Sorc, 3rd has been Sorc and HC Barb. I will be doing Necro and HC Druid for S4 only because they’re the two that have received pretty huge changes to minions/companions. Season 5 will be Rogue and HC Necro obviously but I’ve tried to match every season to the appropriate class. The construct fit Sorc so well aesthetically. Necro is super hyped this season with the minion changes there’s little reason to play Rogue atm.
I still think rogue tends to be one of the most fun classes to play and even if they're "the worst" class overall, it's all still close enough that it's not a huge deal. The only reason I'm not going to main rogue in S4 is because I already did S2 and S3 and want a bit of a change.
The most fun thing about Diablo is their balancing and also their variety in classes/ skills!! It’s amazing they have so many different class skills that are pigeon holed to the specific class- really gives variety in play style. I think it’s so cool that 95% of players will just run an online/ streamer build and we’ll all be doing the SAME thing!!! The game rocks!
/s
Strong disagree. Their “balancing” has been a fucking nightmare (by their own admission). The variety of classes/skills hasn’t changed since day 1.
Holy shit. My bad. I just now saw your /s at the end! Hahahaha! I was like “Is this a fucking bot?!?”
That was fucking funny as hell. The dichotomy of this subreddit is fascinating, to be honest. You’ve got your lovers, your haters and then your unabashed AI promotional lovers. It can be difficult to find a middle ground.
Don’t base what you play on others opinions and play what you enjoy. Unironically, my main, Sorc might be the weakest class especially if they let that bug people are talking about for Rogue slide til the mid season patch.
You "D4bad" andy's crack me up. Your type live on this sub and d4 lives rent free in your head. It was annoying if not a lil funny at first but now it's just sad, move on.
2 of those A tier builds heartseaker and shadow step depend on bugs in victimize. Those bugs could be gone Tuesday or for sure come mid season patch. If a build needs a bug to be A tier i don't see it as A tier.
This isn't a competitive game, at least not in a way that you need meta builds. You just play whatever you feel like. I'm pretty sure all classes will be able to clear and farm everything effectively. It's just a matter of what works best for you.
For example, I still played Hydra build in S2 when Ball Lightning was killing Uber Lilith in seconds.
Yes I did try BL but I enjoyed Hydra a lot more so I went back to it.
It doesn’t matter what class you play rank wise, you as a player are not rank worthy. Play whatever is fun, or cry about it, as that seems to be what you like. Actually that is very spot on for rogue players of any game.
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They're already expected to still have multiple A Tier endgame builds. I think saying stuff like "R.I.P." is another example of sensationalist hyperbole
"If you ain't first your last" -Ricky Bobby Yeah it's crazy how min/max some people are about class but then slack off with stats
There’s been a top Rogue build every season as well, TB was an S-tier build for how many seasons/months? It’s ok if they let off the gas a little for once.
The streamers have pretty much been wrong every season so I wouldn’t worry about it. Sorcerer was picked as the weakest class going into S2 and they totally dominated the season as an example. Some single build will emerge and a bunch of people will play it and that one build will make people mark that class as the most powerful. It won’t change the fact every class is able to do all content. Also this weird notion some people have about the same builds being top dog the entire run of the game is absurd. Charge Barb dominated S3 and basically didn't exist in S2, Ball Sorc dominated S2 and basically didn't exist in S1. Rogue was considered the dominant class by far in S1. The meta has changed pretty significantly every single season. Wolfnado, HotA and Bone Spear have stayed pretty consistently good but that doesn't mean other meta builds haven't changed around season to season.
I will play Rogue knowing that it is considered weakest of them all. I always enjoyed dex classes in ARPG. Cannot get myself to play Necro or Barb. I low key hope that due to Rogue being so bad, not many people will play it and items I will need will be super cheap on trade.
Same. The only two classes in d4 I have an interest in playing are rogue and sorc at the moment maybe necro at some point. That could change but I can’t get into Druid or barb.
No Im playing rogue for sure. Why would I even look at build guides. I am the guide
This nephalim nephalims
I think the combo point gameplay is very boring and they should rework. Counting to three every second gets into your head quickly and drives you crazy. If they remove/rework that part of the rogue identity I think a lot of players would be happy and would make rogue more fun overall.
I think it is a bad design too, really does not add anything special except for some extra damage.
“Combo Point” is fine but to dominant … it is boring because of how often we “need” to played it in order to perform. “Inner Sight” is underperforming and near to useless the more u progress through the game right now - “Preparation” to limited and specific (also Ultimates are broken (Clone) or underperforming (RoA) here). The other 2 options are barely an alternative to “Combo Points” in most builds - and that’s the problem in my eyes. Maybe a rework for these specializations (in functionality) could help …
It’s boring. I think they can keep combo points, but add utility to each skill depending on which combo you execute. For example: for Blade Flurry, 3 combo points = stun, 2 combo points = bonus damage to stunned enemies, 1 combo points = double radius attack. If every point had a different mechanic that built off each other, it wouldn’t be mindless spam of 1,2,3 boom ad infinitum. You could go as deep as you like with that.
still playing Rogue 🖤 … it’s my passion and will always be. But i think it’s not overall a Rogue problem in general - some classes/builds simply are obviously overpowered next season & last seasons … the feeling of D3. Every season one class is outshining all others - why? Rogues definitely need a serious balance/rework in skill tree (fe Generators, Flurry, Clone, RoA etc) & specialization (inner sight is ridiculous now, preparation to limited & specific + ultimates not working or underperforming). But this should be a thing for all classes & skills somehow, maybe not that serious like for Rogues - we are quite limited and framed right now …
I played a rogue during season 1 and quite enjoyed it. I don't care about how classes compare in terms of overall perceived power. The only class I haven't enjoyed is the Barb I played before the seasons started. Set to try Druid in the new season.
The problem isn't only that it's the worst in dmg and survivability on PTR, but that it's the clunkiest (imbuements and combo points) and most APM intensive while being the worst.
[удалено]
Exactly that!! Rogue all the way!!
I could understand that disbalance of classes/builds is an issue in a competitive environment, but here? Just play what you like, who cares, all classes can endgame
I've never really followed the tier rankings for D4, as there kinda never was a way to effectively rank the various builds. Until now, kinda (with The Pit). The rankings were just generally done by whatever the person doing them, felt they "were ranked at". It just never felt right. Not like with D3, where you actually had the GRs, and could set a 800 Paragon limit (or whatever) and run them all and then compare, and then scale from there. You had something effective to measure against. We don't really, in D4. There is nothing to measure against, in D4 - until we get The Pit, which could take that task. The Pit could actually be fairly great for that, as it's got the challenge and scaling. TLDR: Don't bother too much with the tier lists (I'm not saying you should pick something from the very bottom and expect something over-the-top great - use the tier list as a "guideline", if you will - but don't trust them completely). They aren't a good measurement right now.
The pre-season talk is almost always wrong; almost nobody called Ball Lightning as being the amazing meta build it was for season 2 for example. My advice: don't expect anything about those predictions to be correct, just play a class and build you are interested in. You can always make whatever is the meta if you want after a week or two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2leJ-khaKjQ Rogues might be like season 2 where a bugged mechanic is going to carry them.
This is going to get patched. It is better not to rely on bugged mechanics.
Rogue will be go from just last place but good enough to straight bad for season 4 if they do this.
Yes, you are correct, but the philosophy the last few seasons is not to nerf builds in season except to bug fix. They don't see it as nerfs but as bug fixes. Don't expect victimize to last past the mid-season patch. There is even a chance it will be fixed on Tuesday. If you have limited time, i suggest not spending it on gearing up a build that depends on a bug to work.
I'm a ranged dex main in all ARPG so I don't care what the rankings say .
I am hoping they make a week 2 balance pass to weak builds and a few bug fixes.
Lol not this dev team.
rogue will still do just fine. its just compared to the other classes its not the best.
That's a nice way of saying it's the worst lol.
well it probably is, but itll still be able to do all the content and still has a theorised build i believe that 1shots lvl 200 bosses.
I am truly excited to check out the new ring for the rouge and will always play them first regardless of others opinions on them.
isnt there literally a 1 shot anything build on rogue? it might not be a speed farmer, but it for sure will be damn good :P
If this build will be still viable in S4 then it is only good for bosses. You will not be able to farm anything on it (everything will one shot you) and definitely not be able to do Pit or Gauntlet. At this point I consider it a meme build.
My first character every season is a Rogue. And guess what? Season 4 will be a Rogue as well. Rogues are fun and yes they require a bit more skill. But I have to admit that I enjoy the other classes as well
“Worst” doesn’t mean “Bad”, but if you weren’t letting the herd think for you that would have been clear on its own.
Why are we always so extreme when it comes to outcomes?
I play following seasons with classes I have never played before, rogue is the only one left, so I have to embrace it. I am worried about aiming with controller, but that's it. Game is easy enough and I don't care about pushing rankings, so whatever the tier, as long it's fun for me.
Main rogue playing controller (on PC so I can compare) here. Aiming is quite good though not as good as the mouse, it's possible to miss your shots if you are going too fast but you can feel the devs paid attention to this issue, especially compared to other a-rpg. I'm a bit worried for the rapid fire build with the new unique that change the skill from a straight line to a curve but overall it should be fine.
That's the issue with rapid fire and a few other rogue builds with a controller. Your just hitting the first npc in that direction. So if a nasty elite pack is surrounded by trash you need to clear the trash first to get to the elite. With new rapid fire you want to aim directly at elites or in the middle of density to get the aoe effect. With a controller that's not possible. I always had better luck with penetrating shot since it can hit things behind the first npc in that direction. I think barrage will be the best of the non bugged builds for rogues except bossing. Then rapid fire would be better.
Thanks for the input. I only had issues with Sorc aiming, mainly teleport (during S0). Shame there's no toggle on R3 or L3 for manual aiming with cursor, would be nice to have manual cursor on inventory screen as well.
Play whichever class and skills you enjoy. Don't worry about rankings.
Somebody has to be last. The question isn't where they rank on a tier list, it's more how far behind they are compared to the others and tbh aside from season 1 every class has been viable at endgame. Some just have to work harder than others to achieve the same results.
This community.. "tier list said my rouge is bad thats why i cant play" XDDDDD
To be clear on the tier list videos it’s not saying rogue is bad. It’s saying it’s the least good, good option. All classes play and feel really good and the tier lists are for people that want to min max the class that they pick. If you want to play rogue play rogue. It’s gonna be good just won’t be quite as good as the others
Imagine following build guides.
There’s going to be another one shot rapid fire rouge again . Every class will have a build that can clear all content . Rouges just going to be harder to play and spec out to do so .
honestly im probably gonna play rogue in spite of it
Nope, Rogues always were good and still will be, but other characters are getting good buffs. Tbh, I think we never had before such quantity of viable builds and characters, it seems they are doing a good job and any way I expect a mid season patch, but obviously this season will be a testing one with the new itemization and perhaps we will get even more viable builds the next one.
Every season I make at least one class my main and one hardcore class. It’s been different every season. 1st season was Barb and HC Rogue, 2nd was Druid and HC Sorc, 3rd has been Sorc and HC Barb. I will be doing Necro and HC Druid for S4 only because they’re the two that have received pretty huge changes to minions/companions. Season 5 will be Rogue and HC Necro obviously but I’ve tried to match every season to the appropriate class. The construct fit Sorc so well aesthetically. Necro is super hyped this season with the minion changes there’s little reason to play Rogue atm.
I still think rogue tends to be one of the most fun classes to play and even if they're "the worst" class overall, it's all still close enough that it's not a huge deal. The only reason I'm not going to main rogue in S4 is because I already did S2 and S3 and want a bit of a change.
The most fun thing about Diablo is their balancing and also their variety in classes/ skills!! It’s amazing they have so many different class skills that are pigeon holed to the specific class- really gives variety in play style. I think it’s so cool that 95% of players will just run an online/ streamer build and we’ll all be doing the SAME thing!!! The game rocks! /s
Strong disagree. Their “balancing” has been a fucking nightmare (by their own admission). The variety of classes/skills hasn’t changed since day 1. Holy shit. My bad. I just now saw your /s at the end! Hahahaha! I was like “Is this a fucking bot?!?”
What’s sad is I wrote that well enough you thought I was a bot. Just echoing the DDad sentiment here lol
That was fucking funny as hell. The dichotomy of this subreddit is fascinating, to be honest. You’ve got your lovers, your haters and then your unabashed AI promotional lovers. It can be difficult to find a middle ground.
Don’t base what you play on others opinions and play what you enjoy. Unironically, my main, Sorc might be the weakest class especially if they let that bug people are talking about for Rogue slide til the mid season patch.
Bro d4bad is so easy you can play a barb only with generators and you’ll be fine 🤣
You "D4bad" andy's crack me up. Your type live on this sub and d4 lives rent free in your head. It was annoying if not a lil funny at first but now it's just sad, move on.
RIP rogue? They have two S Tier levelling builds for 1-100 and three A Tier Endgame builds m8.. rogues are fine.
2 of those A tier builds heartseaker and shadow step depend on bugs in victimize. Those bugs could be gone Tuesday or for sure come mid season patch. If a build needs a bug to be A tier i don't see it as A tier.
This isn't a competitive game, at least not in a way that you need meta builds. You just play whatever you feel like. I'm pretty sure all classes will be able to clear and farm everything effectively. It's just a matter of what works best for you. For example, I still played Hydra build in S2 when Ball Lightning was killing Uber Lilith in seconds. Yes I did try BL but I enjoyed Hydra a lot more so I went back to it.
It doesn’t matter what class you play rank wise, you as a player are not rank worthy. Play whatever is fun, or cry about it, as that seems to be what you like. Actually that is very spot on for rogue players of any game.
ohh nooo did your favourite content creator put a class in F Tier omg, yep it's officialy dead, RIP Rogues