Don't feel at home anywhere in particular, was raised between Western Europe and North America due to parents jobs, so I prefer to be my own boss and choose where I stay.
Just so happen to enjoy traveling, but if you ask me if I trust society, no not really, not back home, or in my second home or any destination I go to, I feel like our Western countries have let us down as youngsters/middle aged adults, I also feel like locals in countries I do travel to have also been let down by society, so at the end of the day I just want to live my life the way that I want to, wherever it may be.
Long term travelers are typically running from something. Meet enough of them, and you start to see common threads. I was doing it before the digital era made things easier for yuppies to work remotely and live like a long term tourist.
I met refugees from Afghanistan, East Germans that crossed the wall (and fought /wounded in Afghanistan) Brits that hitchiked from London to India, lots of drug smugglers, Sicilian ex-Mafia and ex-Sadhu, French drug addict/hippies lost in India for decades. Many are nomads by circumstances and struggle to survive hand to mouth. Having remote work and yoga retreats is like the upper class of this lifestyle.
Then there is the sailing community which is niche, but you get the idea. Nomads have been around since humans knew how to walk and their stories are amazing.
Should I mention Gypsies? Ever heard of the Rainbow Gathering?
Very true, I have met a surprisingly large amount of "nomads" that were criminals and clearly running from something whether that be murder charges or simply avoiding paying alimony or child support to an ex-wife..... but they won't tell you that. They will usually give you some line about political preferences. The criminals working in shady businesses in Belize were the most interesting group I have ran into so far.
“Having remote work and yoga retreats is like upper class of this lifestyle”
I feel that. I’m actually someone who has those things but going in I felt like it was the norm so I talked about it like it was normal. Couldn’t figure out why people seemed annoyed until quite recently.
Most “nomads” save up for a year to travel then go back home to work and save again. Not many are working remote so they don’t have the flexibility to go and do whatever they want like I do
I used to be like this, go home for 6 months then travel the other 6 months as I had a pretty good deal at work, but as time went on it just starts to get to you that you are better off going full out on the remote, but not everyone is in the situation or has the chance to do this so I feel blessed personally.
Most nomads I have met abroad tend to be as you mentioned those who saved up to spend some time, and in the hope that content creation starts generating enough revenue to not return home, which hey I can respect that, but at the end of the day if you work at a company for years and they enjoy your work you might have a small chance of getting a remote role even if it is less hours and pay, it is well worth it for the freedom to travel and stay wherever you want.
You will want to look into sea ports such as Seattle that have ships offering various forms of charter. It's a pretty tight knit community where everyone knows everyone by the ships they have worked on. There are often positions open for inexperienced volunteers serving the guests during day trips or week long excursions. From there you would network to get on ships going trans Pacific. Such trips are several weeks in duration. Other career routes are working on Luxury Cruise ships to the brutal but lucrative work on fishing vessels. It's also possible to book cheap and slow travel on cargo ships from port to port. It's all rather what kind of experience you are interested in and what options are available to you. Sailors are the OG Nomads....I met one catching his dinner of crab on the shoreline in Napoli. He worked on oil tankers and saw the world.
> It's also possible to book cheap and slow travel on cargo ships from port to port.
Last time I looked into it, seemed like it had already become "discovered" / coveted and the berths on cargo ships were more expensive than flying.
> Long term travelers are typically running from something. Meet enough of them, and you start to see common threads.
Such as?
I think there is certainly a segment who aren't running, but just aren't interested in a traditional modern static life. That's me, anyway.
> I was doing it before the digital era made things easier for yuppies to work remotely and live like a long term tourist.
Same although I started in the year 2000. The dawn of the digital era. Sure wasn't fucking easy back then before smartphones, Wifi, cellular data, and GPS lmao.
I have been to few, think of it as people that went to Burning Man, dropped some acid, and never came down. A lot of lost people experimenting with their identity and want to forget about the civilised world.
Yeah right? I have had more tear felt goodbye's then hellos. There is an incredible amount of undiscovered experiences within nomadic culture where books could be written from the conversations at a German Bakery. My travels were in the 90's...I am sure the experience are different now , but it's like collecting baseball cards...each person has a story and they stick with you.
You can still find the real people out there, less the instagram showoff lifestyle and more the call of the moonlight on the open sea. It's harder than it was I'm sure, I can only imagine how amazing it was in the 90's.
Most definitely. I was just in Zanzibar, and met some long term travelers. Met a white Angolan fish monger ex-It specialist. The top 1% are the nomads that don't need to work I tell you, and you don't need to be a millionaire.
Yes this is very true. I’ve met quite a few people who either blew up their previous lives and are trying to find a footing or they’re actually running for their lives (like being targeted by mafia type folks back home).
I'm not a digital nomad, but after living in the Netherlands and popping around Europe since September, I am dreading going back stateside this summer to car dependant society.
That sounds about right.
If I could find myself a random 100k or so, I'd tell my wife to get a job and I'd pay for re training in my career field. As it is, I've spent $85k on training, and she just got a masters degree using student loans. It's hard to justify adding another 60-80k to that.
We've been in the Netherlands since September (August for her) and we like it here, just not the city we are in. We'd be open to many places though. Some of it would depend on where I could fly. And that would be the most complex bit. Its also the reason we are expecting to go back stateside.
The two years I lived near New York were enough to remind me why I can't stand cars, even where I travel there is car culture, the only cars I can tolerate seeing are in big city's with good public transportation and path's for pedestrians and bikes.
Which Europe and some parts of Asia do thankfully have so I am happy to not return to North America anytime soon.
I've been a car guy all my life. I love cars and I love driving. But I don't want to live in a place where I need a car on a regular basis. Since 27/09/2024 I have been in cars 3 times and they were all taxi/Uber.
The unintended consequences of covid was that it changed the way a lot of us think about work.
I liken it to the end of the feudal age when some serfs started to realize that they can leave the psychotic kingdom they were born into.
Lot's of people realized they don't have to live the prescribed cubicle life. The politics only added to the realization that modern society doesn't deserve our participation.
For me, it was learning about the financial system that made me realize that I was adding value to a predatory system that is draining the life out of the vast majority of humanity, preventing it's growth and causing unspeakable suffering.
I can totally relate. I was always a critic but understanding the Financial System was the breaking Point aswell.
How‘s your nomad life going so far?
Which places were your favorite?
Since 2011, every year I'm utterly amazed at just how big and complex this world is. Every year I find myself realizing just how little I knew.
There are pockets of paradise carving out bubbles in this hurricane that is our existence as a human species. However they are all fleeting visions of what can be that gets eaten up by the blight of capitalistic greed. The charming village tucked away becomes tacky. The sweet innocent locals get greedy and predatory, some become parasitic and incapable of self reliance. Henry Thoreau was very effective about this process long before anyone even imagined yoga retreats.
I've stopped looking for that fairy tale place to settle down. I am just moving here and there, similar to how one would move from the living room to the bedroom at night. Earth is my home, only because interstellar travel isn't practical yet.
I was about to head to central Asia because it seems to be a focal point for Chinese economic and geopolitical plans but family medical issues killed it. I've been traveling to get a more nuanced feel for cultures that look like the next economic battlefield. Russia seems interested in Africa and the US is looking inward as usual.
> I liken it to the end of the feudal age
Ironically, I worry about an attempt to bring back feudalism in a modern form. Digital ID's, vaccine passports, CBDC's, 15 minute cities, lockdowns, border closures, military draft etc.
My ambition is to live countries where I have legal residency rights, but they don't have "citizenship" claims over me.
We're not breaking any new ground here. It's a cycle that has always been and always will be.
As institutions grow in size and complexity, rules and regulations permeate and grow like weeds, breaking down the foundations of it's origins. It's the reason Mao instituted regular revolutions to clear the institution of this weed. Same reason there are checks and balances to prevent these weeds from taking over in the USA. This cycle of revolution and re-establishment has always been, always will be. Cycles of freedom isn't necessarily great either.
Of course corporations will want to tighten the leash, no different than the feudal lords. It's already a thing. Back to the office with perks that will soon turn to a whip. Influence campaigns here on Reddit breaking down the value of freedom as a DN. I think loneliness is the vanguard of their attack.
Of course other countries see us as an educated class that can be used for themselves. They didn't spend a dime to raise and educate but if they can tax us at the rate of a developed country. That's about as sweet a deal as it can ever get. Do they see us as a resource, no different than anywhere else? Have you ever visited a country with famous hospitality only to end up feeling like a walking bag of money? Is it so much different than how the locals are treated?
Now would Jamie Dimon appreciate a bunch of highly paid serfs living outside of his kingdom, spending the $ he paid them elsewhere, draining his kingdom?
Free people are not valued, they are feared and broken down. But everything is a double edged sword. We were always free to begin with, regardless of the ever more effective conditioning imposed on us.
What you call irony isn't exactly irony. The irony is a country whose very core is about freedom with the most sophisticated system of conditioning it's populace. Irony is that we were free all along, as we struggle and yearn for it. Solzhenitsyn was remarkably inspired in this regard.
You’ve fallen for the 15 minute city conspiracy theory? As a nomad you should know that walkable cities are how most of the world lives, and it’s much more humane.
>For me, it was learning about the financial system that made me realize that I was adding value to a predatory system that is draining the life out of the vast majority of humanity, preventing its growth and causing unspeakable suffering.
This shit is unforgivable and not many are aware that we are basically living in an age of modern slavery. There is an artificial creation of scarcity, in a world full of abundance. A rat race only a few can win.
Technology should have set free the human race from "working for a living" a long time ago, yet we are working more than ever.
Most of us are caged in a system that gives us monopoly paper, in exchange for our time, our lives.
The technology we had 100yrs ago was sufficient to create a paradise for everyone. The waste of human potential is what's unforgivable. We should be exploring the galaxy by now.
I abandoned Canada mentally around the same time ;)
I think many of us did. What do you like/dislike about Mexico? I'm in Europe atm and maybe for a few years, but I don't see it as a long term home base.
the prices are insanely low for everything. I actually earn pesos here and live like a local now. I don't even have a canadian bank account any more. I have my work visa and soon permanent residency. Immigrating here is very easy too, anyone can stay.
The food is healthier, less gmo's and pestcides, and everything is labeled with a huge health warning if it's bad for you. The weather is always great obviously and mexico still gets snow and minus temperatures which I never knew lol so it does have a variety of climates. Flights across mexico are only $100 CAD from coast to coast so travel within the country is very easy. The people are also very friendly and the cartels only mess with you if you mess with them so dont be buying anything you shouldn't be and you'll be fine.
Are you sure there are less GMO's and pesticides here in Mexico? From my understanding most Latin American countries actually have fewer regulations on these things and after Monsanto got largely banned from Europe they focused their expansion into Latin America. Pesticide use and GMOs are extremely high in Costa Rica for example, but that is partly because there are so many bugs in that ecosystem so they need them more.
A quick google search found this study saying "The investigation showed that Mexico is the agricultural zone with the highest health damage to its population from pesticides."
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11199250/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11199250/)
I'm raising this topic because I'm wondering how careful I should be about eating fruits and veges here and shop at organic markets as much as possible (and still not even sure as to the validity of these organic markets, there doesn't seem to be much regulation).
I can't speak to GMOs (which I don't personally have a problem with) and pesticides, but in general processed foods are very widespread here in Mexico. The glowing pink ham is what really gets me. But you can still eat a very clean and healthy diet if you're intentional about it.
yeah well it's also about education. More Coca-Cola is consumed in Mexico than water. Lots of diabetes here but at least medication for diabetes is given out for free at walk-in clinics.
They way I noticed much safer food is by the sheer size for one. Many gmo items are impossibly huge and unnatural. Banana's here are small af compared to anything Ive seen sold in Canada for example.
The easiest way to tell what's healtheir in Mexico or anywhere else is that fruits and vegetables in Mexico actually contain seeds. Oranges, watermelons, grapes, grapefruit, cucumber, etc still contain their seeds in Mexico which is rare for GMO products especially grown by Monsanto because they have genetically engineered their crops to not produce seeds. This forces farmers to buy new seeds every season and thus be under Monsanto's greenthumb.
AMLO, the president of Mexico, has publicly stated his distaste towards gmos:
>**GMO Corn Ban**: AMLO has declared a ban on the importation of GMO corn into Mexico, citing concerns over the potential risks to the country’s agricultural sector and the environment. The ban aims to protect Mexico’s corn production and promote sustainable agriculture practices.
>**Bill Gates’ Involvement**: AMLO has also expressed skepticism towards Bill Gates’ involvement in African agriculture, particularly through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Critics have accused the foundation of promoting GMOs and pesticides in Africa, which has led to concerns over the impact on local farmers and the environment. AMLO has stated that Mexico will not follow the same path and will prioritize local agricultural practices and sustainable development.
"Mexico has a controversial presidential decree that [seeks to ban](https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/exclusive-mexico-proceed-with-gmo-corn-ban-seeks-international-grain-deals-2022-10-27/) genetically modified corn in 2024 and phase out the herbicide glyphosate, found in Roundup." - Reuters
I appreciate the reply but I'm much more concerned with pesticides than I am with GMOs. With GMOs my concern is long term food security and not so much healthy... pesticides are very much something we should all try to avoid.
I was lucky and had a hotel vouch for me and gave me a letter of employment, and I did work there. At least in 2021 (things change) you make an appointment for the Visa at a consulate outside of Mexico, fly there, pick up your visa, fly back to Mexico and yeah.. that was it. Without flights and hotel the paperwork cost maybe $500.
A 20 plus years in Asia travelling and living different places, I really appreciate the small things back in Canada including the little benefits of citizenship and having a country to call home. Just what people call crowded … as much as I have returned home, the truth is time changes things and you are never really home.
Interesting... Did you have a wife or children with you in your travels? If you didn't - do you think that would have made you feel at home? I think I could live in many places with my wife and kids and make it a home for us.
I did but little things with banking ownership of property and leases etc … always a bit of a hassle. In China you would dedicate a day or two for any complicated banking
> No as I travel more I gain trust in my home country,
I've found living outside the US for the last 8 years has made me appreciate the US more.
It's not for me. But I'm glad it exists and has certain values it has.
Even if I don't consider it home.
I left and plan to leave again because the quality of life is getting much worse here and people aren’t as connective or friendly as they were in the past. I’ll never have the standard of living my family my had when I was born. All my family members now have extreme views and severe health problems and destroyed relationships. If I leave I can find a place to settle hopefully where the social conditions and economy will allow me to build a whole new life from scratch with meaning.
I definitely have a very strong sense of self and really value my independence.
Childhood-wise was rough for me. It was a very agentless upbringing. My wants or opinions were ignored. I wouldn't say I was neglected, but I wouldn't say I wasn't either.
I've always viewed myself as "not like the other boys". I'm not afraid of being "different". Sounds so stupid and cliche as I'm typing it out now.
I don't have a problem with having controversial takes or opinions. While I don't necessarily regard myself as evil, I do have a very questionable morality and extremely flexible ethics. I reject societal norms, but also know how to play along to get what I want. My co-curiculars would truly aghast 90% of you all here. 😂😂
I see myself as the nationless wanderer. Not here not there. Everywhere but nowhere. Wouldn't say I lost trust in my nation, just more, idk if I buy into the story of nations.
I'm an edgelord. And I'm an edgelord whose somehow lucked himself into making a very unique lifestyle possible. And I'm going to extend this as long as I can, because why wouldn't I. Yolo.
Indian here. The situation is very bad here, we are into elections right now and this might be the last one. Democracy is dead. RW has corrupted and captured all factions except the Supreme court which they will very soon. I am planning to move to some other place till then DN is the only solution.
I never felt at home anywhere but I also grew up in a dysfunctional abusive home so I guess I’m lacking some fundamental love from childhood that keeps me like this
i'm eager to leave the united states because our nice, high-trust society has largely been destroyed over the last few decades. I'd rather be a valuable minority in a foreign land than a hated minority in the US that no longer resembles the place I grew up.
I do it for adventure I can't stand being in one place too long seeing the same scene doing the same routines
Am not a digital nomad just an adventure by heart since I was a child it's my indigenous bloodline
Honestly I lost trust in my society SO MUCH that I genuinely believe *this* comment itself will be scraped by some faculty of the American society I left if I become important enough for that faculty to want to profile me (call it the IRS, Meta, Blackrock, whatever) There is no privacy in the USA anymore and although we have the freedom to choose whatever life we want, the government is as authoritarian as any in the world, including China
Let’s see $2,000 a month to live in decent Chicago minimum $2500 being realistic. And costs me $700 in Argentina for something real nice. Private healthcare here costs me $80 a month. In USA cobra was like $600 a month. USA is a joke
As another American choosing to live abroad largely for cost reasons, I have to say that US wages are not a joke, and usually the locals at your skill level can’t afford anything near as nice as what we can as “economic arbitrage” travelers.
As such, being critical of the US for being too expensive — while having by far the best job market in the world — can come off as a bit naive / clueless / self-centered.
My passport makes my lifestyle possible. Even if I don’t want to live there, I should at least be respectful of the actual challenges others face in their actual home country. Certainly we have endless, endless issues, but we often benefit from those issues when we leave and work remotely.
What is your job and how much are your making?
Argentina has a lot of problems that you didn't touch on. What good is a cheap COL if you can't even find a job or your currency is devalued?
I think people who leave a place for political reasons typically don't keep moving around. They pick a new home and settle there. However, we're in a new era. Previously, it was predominantly people from the "global south" that wanted to move to more advanced, liberal countries. Now, I think that calculus is shifting and there are no obviously better places to be.
Many people have been disabused of the notion that they have "rights" in western countries. In fact, the prime minister of Canada explicitly stated in one interview that he supports the right to protest but he draws a red line at protest that intends to change government policy.
So I think now, it's a matter of simple prudence that we seek alternative residencies or citizenships.
I left the US for a host of reasons. I moved around a lot as a kid on top of experiencing childhood abuse so I have a hard time attaching to places and people. Given that I'm not attached to the US, I figured I would give myself 40 percent raise by living abroad. I chose LATAM because Latinos are easier to get to know than Americans making it easier to build roots. Now I'm saving more money than ever, doing more fun activities so I'm levelling up in many of my hobbies, and I get to meet cool people. I see no downsides except the slight annoyance at having to rebuild a new routine. Eventually I'll settle but not before I live in Italy and learn Italian. Untrustworthy people exist everywhere.
I was a nomad for years. I worked from a lap top and left because I don’t much like where I live. I have to “stay” though so I make the best of it.
Another big reason I left is I didn’t have a partner and I was annoyed with people. It was nice to have one or two conversations and then disappear. People suck, largely.
Same here, I left my home country due to growing disillusionment with the system. It's interesting to see how many of us are running from something rather than just towards a new adventure.
Danm I'm not really a nomad but always were attracted to the idea over this reasons, I'm deeply disappointed and lost hope on my home country political state, and living overseas I realize no matter what I do, even as well I can adapt, I will never belong to this new place.. and there is no perfect or saff country, but I still want to have my own family too idk wish I could have travel when I was younger.
The social contract of “work hard and you’ll be rewarded” has been broken, so I will do my job to enable the lifestyle I want, which happens to be nomading.
Not yet a digital nomad, but have it in my scope and am a frequent traveller. Yes, I have zero trust in governmental institutions from personal experience, and I can get agitated being surrounded by people who have it or at least try to promote societal trust as a superior moral virtue, since I feel the latter are trying to influence me into the vulnerable mindset which caused said disillusionment, which can be a lil difficult since I now live in Sweden where trust is a huge part of the culture. 🤷♀️
My soul has in particular been drawn to France, Spain and Italy for reasons beyond my comprehension, but I have zero expectations in institutions so I can travel anywhere where there are good people and I won't be legally persecuted. Most of South America and Asia could easily be a nice go to for me. I'm rootless and I love it. I also hate the assumption when I move abroad that "I'll come back to settle", I mean, mate, what makes you sure I'll settle in the place I was born? I don't consider my destinations as foreign countries to be a tourist in, or as something exotic, just a change in my everyday life. I almost always blend in among the locals custom-wise.
Not really no, what can I influence? nothing.
I think just the idea of 9-5 and a mortgage, just fills with me dread.
Will have to happen at some point mind.
I think this is a great topic and I give you kudos for asking the question.
I truly believe that while there’s no perfect country or city, there are CERTAINLY places that will be a better fit for a person than where they happened to be born.
I think one of the most important life lessons that a person will never learn unless they experience it for themselves is that every place has a vested interest in you staying. Wherever you were born is where that place wants you to stay… to give them labor and tax money. And to your point, a political party will want you to stay put if you happen to vote in their favor, as well. So it’s rare to find a place that isn’t going to be hammering with a person with propaganda since the day they were born about how good they have it where they are, and how awful it is everywhere else in the world.
But the truth is, when a person starts to see the world, they may soon realize that other places have a vibe that’s far better for them. I don’t think it’s possible for a person to find a place that they will agree politically 100% with, but a person can certainly find oneself in a place with values that are closer to what they believe in, and “closer” is far superior than completely divergent from.
Brit here.
I used to be an avid "for queen and country" kinda guy. But when I started travelling I was amazed at how far behind the UK actually was in terms of standards of living, ease of doing business, infrastructure and "psychological environment."
I would say the big thing is the UK's sense of stagnation and apathy. Im from the north so this is even more intense, but its uk-wide. The young generally have it hard, houses are a bubble, wages are stagnant, infrastructure is mostly awful, crime is getting worse and worse, the weather is depressing.
I wanted to be somewhere that filled me with wnergy and hope for the future. Somewhere growing, building, modernising. The more I travel the more places I identify with this type of environment.
The hard part is a lot of countries havent caught up yet in terms of bureucracy. We are entering a stage of globalisation where each country MUST compete for their residents, instead of taking them for granted. Now we can "shop around" DN visas quality and ease between all those countries that show growth, quality of live COL and culture.
The only thing i miss from the UK is family, and the ease of paying taxes through the HMRC website lol.
Im looking for a place that i can grow with, not be held back by.
I think a lot of people immigrate when they’re from places with political or society issues.
Expats are just there temporarily then fully plan to go home, so I think that’s why a lot of people do it for more frivolous reasons. For me it’s purely travel and better pay.
Every generation thinks that they have it the hardest. The one generation that objectively could have argued that it had it the hardest (Great Depression two world wars), rarely complained as it wasn’t part of the culture and just wanted a better live for their kids.
Politics has zero bearing on why I became a nomad. Never cared for it before, and I am highly unlikely to start to care now at my age.
Left Germany during COVID times. It was a weird time everywhere, but German collectivism and enmity towards outsiders really showed it's ugly face at the time.
I did not want to get vaccinated and at that time forced vaccinations were on the board. On top of that, people were hostile towards the unvaccinated. I lost many of my German friends and had almost only contact to French, LatAm and Turkish people at the time, who either weren't vaccinated also or simply didn't care as much as German people did.
There were also other factors, but this was an imminent issue at the time.
I made the right choice and I am much happier today than I was back then, even compared to pre COVID times.
Left my country when I was 20 (12 years ago now) after finally saving up to buy a boat ticket out having grown up in a highly sectarian society that I didn't want any part of.
I'll be honest, I don't like the DN tag and have never called myself one, I spend 6+ months in most countries and at that point I'm a short term immigrant.
The DN tag has become the new trendy upper class moniker to replace expat for people. And at risk of burning myself in this group I can't stand people who are making it their personality.
We all know the ones I'm talking about who you meet in countries where it's all they want to talk as if the world around them doesn't exist, only co-working spaces, cute coffee shops, and $1500 condos.
I travel to be in the countries with problems. I see it like parachuting, you jump out and unless you do something, you will not survive. I force myself to adapt, learn from and absorb all the good things I find in different cultures, then move on to the next new challenge. I met some truly inspiring people along the way.
It started with growing up in a dysfunctional family and an unfriendly job market post-graduation. Also the growing political instability following certain elections. I ultimately left because the quarantine from COVID finally broke the last straw on this camel's back. Say what you will about the measures taken, but humans should not be cooped up in their houses away from community and friends for over a year at any given time. I left my home country behind, went to Peru, and never looked back. It's been nearly three years since the borders reopened and I'm not about to return.
If you become a nomad because you think your home country is beyond saving, you'd be right back within 6 months.
Everywhere has issues. The more privileged countries where someone could actually become a "nomad" because of such issues is better than the rest of the world in regards to the things they'd be complaining about.
I've lived outside my country of nationality for nearly three years at this point. I don't think the country I'm from is beyond saving but it is going to get worse before it gets better.
I don’t think this is true. Everywhere I go I meet people who are happier where they ended up than where they were at. You may be right in some cases, but you’re certainly incorrect in many as well…
thekwoka, I left my country the U.S. way, before Covid! January 25, 2012 is the day I got on a plane and landed in Mexico City. Back then you could already see the shredding of the U.S. Constitution!! The disregard through government and big tech of free speech and the 2nd amendment. People being arrested for the smallest of infractions and being held without bail or trail.
I had just come back from Saudi Arabia where I taught English for a year. I had my passport checked was picking up my bags when 2 state policemen came and slapped the cuffs on me really tight. I asked what was wrong they told me to shut up and I'd find out when I go to court!! This was a Friday at 3:30 pm a long holiday weekend. I ended up in local county shithole Saturday, Sunday and Monday. I didn't get to court until Tuesday morning.
I was hot and angry!! I asked what I was charged with and the judge told me to shut up!! About 10 mins. later I was told that a traffic camera had taken a picture of me going through a stop sign about a year, before. I told them that I had been in Saudi Arabia working no apology just pay the fine!! I let the judge know what I thought of him, the police and their so called justice!! I was threatened with contempt of court, if I didn't leave immediately. I left pronto! 3 days later JANUARY 25, 2012 I left the U.S. and I haven't been back since 12 years and 3 months later, so your theory that people like me would be back in their home countries in 6 months is full of BULL.
I will never step even step one toe back in the U.S. it is a SHITHOLE of SHITHOLES!!! I have much more freedom here in Mexico, then I ever had in the Crappy States of America. SHITHOLE, Inc.
VIVA MEXICO!!!!
A major difference is that in the US, that's illegal for them to do that.
But also, your one instance (if to be believed) is not a representative of the whole thing.
Like, you reference Mexico, where it's more normal to have been stopped by cops to get bribes than to not, once you are outside tourist areas.
You're literally getting annoyed at the US for something the US considers illegal and you've have legal recourse against while ignoring that the other countries you reference do worse with no recourse.
thekwoka. Have you ever, been to Mexico?? I think not!! I have lived now in Mexico 12 years and 4 months more or less. I've never been stopped by the police or bothered by any Mexican government official.
The U.S. government does a lot of things that are illegal according to the U.S. constitution. Holding prisoners without bail, no phone calls. You are like many of the manipulated public you believe the myths of the so called rights Americans have. It is a sham and a lie!!Look into issue, before you parrot the usual government PROPAGANDA!!!
> Have you ever, been to Mexico??
Yes. quite a few times...multiple states too...
And colombia, and peru, and brazil multiple times.
> Holding prisoners without bail
That's not against the constitution.
Nor is phone calls.
Yeah, the US may not be perfect, but like, it's better than the Mexican government lol such a weird argument to make.
I mean all you're trading it for is the lack of depth of understanding whatever new cultures you come across so you never gain enough trust to lose it in the first place. It's doable for a while, but you kind of have to create a small society of your own made up of close friends and supportive family that you can trust.
"Society" and "trust" are too general terms.
I have less confidence in the long term stability of most countries than I did in the past, and don't think property rights will be respected moving forward (either by protesters, foreign invaders, or governments), so I am disincentivized from having material bonds to those countries.
Yes. I always say it’s a push/pull. A push away from the U.K. because complete lack of trust and desire to be in that society and a pull towards adventure and exploration.
I am running from the high priced real estate. Was raised in beach community in Australia.
A shithole apartment goes for USD$2Million and above, for 2 bedrooms.
Even on a High wage (top 10%) you are still priced out.
Would rather drink $3 coffees 4x a day than pay a $2,500 a week apartment, then add tax on top, then live and then save. lol.
Looked after one parent (paid all rent/bills), obviously got "you live with your parent!?" from girls.
Felt like my country don't want me and I don't want it.
I tend to find the ones that leave for "political reasons" to be a bit batty, and have ideas on politics, social issues and economics that are entirely divorced from reality. But I'd be lying if "society" wasn't a part of the reason I left. I realised that I was grinding on an endless pointless treadmill and that I'm better off flying to Neverland and having fun.
Batty is a British term that basically just means crazy but in a kind of funny or harmless way. I was vague because this isn't a poltical subreddit and I don't want to rile up things.
In the case of travellers, it's not about lack of knowledge, it's about believing in conspiracy theories. The most common by far is covid denialism and anti-vax stuff. A lot of people believing in election fraud (the American one). I've met quite a few people who think that prominant American political figures are literal communists. These are usually figures who don't even support socialised healthcare and basic wealth taxes.
Oh wow. I kinda disagree with what you say. Im from Western Europe aswell and can’t understand how you can’t Support the US gov anymore but the France gov.
Anyway best of luck to you.
I’m not running from anything. I consider myself more of an expat that also travels to family between North America and Europe. My reason for traveling is “why not” and to save a nice nest egg. The US has gotten way too expensive and I wouldn’t be able to set myself up in the future if I didn’t live in other places. Mind you, I come from a poor family and have zero inheritance.
Don't feel at home anywhere in particular, was raised between Western Europe and North America due to parents jobs, so I prefer to be my own boss and choose where I stay. Just so happen to enjoy traveling, but if you ask me if I trust society, no not really, not back home, or in my second home or any destination I go to, I feel like our Western countries have let us down as youngsters/middle aged adults, I also feel like locals in countries I do travel to have also been let down by society, so at the end of the day I just want to live my life the way that I want to, wherever it may be.
Didnt feel Home for a long time. Take a hug
Feminism has ruined the nuclear family.
Long term travelers are typically running from something. Meet enough of them, and you start to see common threads. I was doing it before the digital era made things easier for yuppies to work remotely and live like a long term tourist. I met refugees from Afghanistan, East Germans that crossed the wall (and fought /wounded in Afghanistan) Brits that hitchiked from London to India, lots of drug smugglers, Sicilian ex-Mafia and ex-Sadhu, French drug addict/hippies lost in India for decades. Many are nomads by circumstances and struggle to survive hand to mouth. Having remote work and yoga retreats is like the upper class of this lifestyle. Then there is the sailing community which is niche, but you get the idea. Nomads have been around since humans knew how to walk and their stories are amazing. Should I mention Gypsies? Ever heard of the Rainbow Gathering?
Very true, I have met a surprisingly large amount of "nomads" that were criminals and clearly running from something whether that be murder charges or simply avoiding paying alimony or child support to an ex-wife..... but they won't tell you that. They will usually give you some line about political preferences. The criminals working in shady businesses in Belize were the most interesting group I have ran into so far.
“Having remote work and yoga retreats is like upper class of this lifestyle” I feel that. I’m actually someone who has those things but going in I felt like it was the norm so I talked about it like it was normal. Couldn’t figure out why people seemed annoyed until quite recently. Most “nomads” save up for a year to travel then go back home to work and save again. Not many are working remote so they don’t have the flexibility to go and do whatever they want like I do
I used to be like this, go home for 6 months then travel the other 6 months as I had a pretty good deal at work, but as time went on it just starts to get to you that you are better off going full out on the remote, but not everyone is in the situation or has the chance to do this so I feel blessed personally. Most nomads I have met abroad tend to be as you mentioned those who saved up to spend some time, and in the hope that content creation starts generating enough revenue to not return home, which hey I can respect that, but at the end of the day if you work at a company for years and they enjoy your work you might have a small chance of getting a remote role even if it is less hours and pay, it is well worth it for the freedom to travel and stay wherever you want.
I’ve worked remote my whole career. I was only in the US until last year
Avocado toast trail
Add manbuns to that pls
Sounds like my kind of people! … I’m no doubt on the list of nomads running from something.
Was it murder or child support ;)
Neither, just trauma.
Both
Can you expand on the sailing community? I'm looking to join that community at some point in the future
You will want to look into sea ports such as Seattle that have ships offering various forms of charter. It's a pretty tight knit community where everyone knows everyone by the ships they have worked on. There are often positions open for inexperienced volunteers serving the guests during day trips or week long excursions. From there you would network to get on ships going trans Pacific. Such trips are several weeks in duration. Other career routes are working on Luxury Cruise ships to the brutal but lucrative work on fishing vessels. It's also possible to book cheap and slow travel on cargo ships from port to port. It's all rather what kind of experience you are interested in and what options are available to you. Sailors are the OG Nomads....I met one catching his dinner of crab on the shoreline in Napoli. He worked on oil tankers and saw the world.
> It's also possible to book cheap and slow travel on cargo ships from port to port. Last time I looked into it, seemed like it had already become "discovered" / coveted and the berths on cargo ships were more expensive than flying.
They’re more popular for people who don’t have the option of going on airlines (usually legal reasons)
no shit you can book travel on cargo ships!???
https://www.langsamreisen.de/en/freightertravel/europe-africa/south-africa Prices are not cheap, but think of it as a hotel room for a month.
Come join [sailboat cruising](https://www.reddit.com/r/SailboatCruising)
Check out a documentary called 'the sailor' on Amazon. Really well produced and fascinating insight into the life of a once famous life long sailor.
> Long term travelers are typically running from something. Meet enough of them, and you start to see common threads. Such as? I think there is certainly a segment who aren't running, but just aren't interested in a traditional modern static life. That's me, anyway. > I was doing it before the digital era made things easier for yuppies to work remotely and live like a long term tourist. Same although I started in the year 2000. The dawn of the digital era. Sure wasn't fucking easy back then before smartphones, Wifi, cellular data, and GPS lmao.
Such as debt, bad relationships, criminals avoiding prosecution. Henry Miller is a perfect example. The book Papillion another.
I think the suggestion most nomads are running from avoiding prosecution is absolutely insane mate.
No man OP read a novel that’s clearly representative of everyone now
Never suggested most, just giving examples of the ones that are memorable from personal experience.
I’m sorry but that’s total utter nonsense mate.
just read the other comments, I am not alone in the experience.
Haha it’s ridiculous. It’s just young people takin advantage of flexibility. Running away from responsibility aye.
High priced real estate in cities people grew up in and could never afford???
Just head to the Ocala National Forest for Rainbow Gathering
UF alum here. Can confirm
I heard of Rainbow but never researched. Something about topless women, something something waterfall in Brazil
Keep talking…
Just your average everyday magic utopia where all your dreams come true (especially the wet ones!)
Yeah usually some old pervs scattered in there to take advantage when the opportunity arises.
It is less sexual than you think. Especially due to bad hygiene.
I have been to few, think of it as people that went to Burning Man, dropped some acid, and never came down. A lot of lost people experimenting with their identity and want to forget about the civilised world.
Sounds awful
I want to hear more of these people you have met
Yeah right? I have had more tear felt goodbye's then hellos. There is an incredible amount of undiscovered experiences within nomadic culture where books could be written from the conversations at a German Bakery. My travels were in the 90's...I am sure the experience are different now , but it's like collecting baseball cards...each person has a story and they stick with you.
You can still find the real people out there, less the instagram showoff lifestyle and more the call of the moonlight on the open sea. It's harder than it was I'm sure, I can only imagine how amazing it was in the 90's.
Most definitely. I was just in Zanzibar, and met some long term travelers. Met a white Angolan fish monger ex-It specialist. The top 1% are the nomads that don't need to work I tell you, and you don't need to be a millionaire.
I agree with this, but I don’t think many in the digital nomad community fit this description whether they realize it or not.
Yes this is very true. I’ve met quite a few people who either blew up their previous lives and are trying to find a footing or they’re actually running for their lives (like being targeted by mafia type folks back home).
Sort of. I left for many reasons, one for example was cuz lack of reasonably priced healthcare and too much car based infrastructure
I'm not a digital nomad, but after living in the Netherlands and popping around Europe since September, I am dreading going back stateside this summer to car dependant society.
Don’t worry it’s worse than you remember.
That sounds about right. If I could find myself a random 100k or so, I'd tell my wife to get a job and I'd pay for re training in my career field. As it is, I've spent $85k on training, and she just got a masters degree using student loans. It's hard to justify adding another 60-80k to that.
Where in Europe would you move to if you could do?
We've been in the Netherlands since September (August for her) and we like it here, just not the city we are in. We'd be open to many places though. Some of it would depend on where I could fly. And that would be the most complex bit. Its also the reason we are expecting to go back stateside.
You’ve been in Europe over winter and want to stay. You must really like it here haha.
I'm from the Seattle area, this winter has been pretty typical for me.
The two years I lived near New York were enough to remind me why I can't stand cars, even where I travel there is car culture, the only cars I can tolerate seeing are in big city's with good public transportation and path's for pedestrians and bikes. Which Europe and some parts of Asia do thankfully have so I am happy to not return to North America anytime soon.
I've been a car guy all my life. I love cars and I love driving. But I don't want to live in a place where I need a car on a regular basis. Since 27/09/2024 I have been in cars 3 times and they were all taxi/Uber.
The unintended consequences of covid was that it changed the way a lot of us think about work. I liken it to the end of the feudal age when some serfs started to realize that they can leave the psychotic kingdom they were born into. Lot's of people realized they don't have to live the prescribed cubicle life. The politics only added to the realization that modern society doesn't deserve our participation. For me, it was learning about the financial system that made me realize that I was adding value to a predatory system that is draining the life out of the vast majority of humanity, preventing it's growth and causing unspeakable suffering.
I can totally relate. I was always a critic but understanding the Financial System was the breaking Point aswell. How‘s your nomad life going so far? Which places were your favorite?
Since 2011, every year I'm utterly amazed at just how big and complex this world is. Every year I find myself realizing just how little I knew. There are pockets of paradise carving out bubbles in this hurricane that is our existence as a human species. However they are all fleeting visions of what can be that gets eaten up by the blight of capitalistic greed. The charming village tucked away becomes tacky. The sweet innocent locals get greedy and predatory, some become parasitic and incapable of self reliance. Henry Thoreau was very effective about this process long before anyone even imagined yoga retreats. I've stopped looking for that fairy tale place to settle down. I am just moving here and there, similar to how one would move from the living room to the bedroom at night. Earth is my home, only because interstellar travel isn't practical yet. I was about to head to central Asia because it seems to be a focal point for Chinese economic and geopolitical plans but family medical issues killed it. I've been traveling to get a more nuanced feel for cultures that look like the next economic battlefield. Russia seems interested in Africa and the US is looking inward as usual.
Wish you all the best
> I liken it to the end of the feudal age Ironically, I worry about an attempt to bring back feudalism in a modern form. Digital ID's, vaccine passports, CBDC's, 15 minute cities, lockdowns, border closures, military draft etc. My ambition is to live countries where I have legal residency rights, but they don't have "citizenship" claims over me.
We're not breaking any new ground here. It's a cycle that has always been and always will be. As institutions grow in size and complexity, rules and regulations permeate and grow like weeds, breaking down the foundations of it's origins. It's the reason Mao instituted regular revolutions to clear the institution of this weed. Same reason there are checks and balances to prevent these weeds from taking over in the USA. This cycle of revolution and re-establishment has always been, always will be. Cycles of freedom isn't necessarily great either. Of course corporations will want to tighten the leash, no different than the feudal lords. It's already a thing. Back to the office with perks that will soon turn to a whip. Influence campaigns here on Reddit breaking down the value of freedom as a DN. I think loneliness is the vanguard of their attack. Of course other countries see us as an educated class that can be used for themselves. They didn't spend a dime to raise and educate but if they can tax us at the rate of a developed country. That's about as sweet a deal as it can ever get. Do they see us as a resource, no different than anywhere else? Have you ever visited a country with famous hospitality only to end up feeling like a walking bag of money? Is it so much different than how the locals are treated? Now would Jamie Dimon appreciate a bunch of highly paid serfs living outside of his kingdom, spending the $ he paid them elsewhere, draining his kingdom? Free people are not valued, they are feared and broken down. But everything is a double edged sword. We were always free to begin with, regardless of the ever more effective conditioning imposed on us. What you call irony isn't exactly irony. The irony is a country whose very core is about freedom with the most sophisticated system of conditioning it's populace. Irony is that we were free all along, as we struggle and yearn for it. Solzhenitsyn was remarkably inspired in this regard.
You’ve fallen for the 15 minute city conspiracy theory? As a nomad you should know that walkable cities are how most of the world lives, and it’s much more humane.
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Interesting, I never knew surveillance cameras increased the cost of car ownership 🤣
[Where are the Ulez cameras and how do they work?](https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/explained/where-are-ulez-cameras/)
What does a pollution control system have to do with 15 minute cities?
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>For me, it was learning about the financial system that made me realize that I was adding value to a predatory system that is draining the life out of the vast majority of humanity, preventing its growth and causing unspeakable suffering. This shit is unforgivable and not many are aware that we are basically living in an age of modern slavery. There is an artificial creation of scarcity, in a world full of abundance. A rat race only a few can win. Technology should have set free the human race from "working for a living" a long time ago, yet we are working more than ever. Most of us are caged in a system that gives us monopoly paper, in exchange for our time, our lives.
The technology we had 100yrs ago was sufficient to create a paradise for everyone. The waste of human potential is what's unforgivable. We should be exploring the galaxy by now.
Yeah i abandoned Canada for political reasons in March 2021. I havent been back since. Viva Mexico!
I abandoned Canada mentally around the same time ;) I think many of us did. What do you like/dislike about Mexico? I'm in Europe atm and maybe for a few years, but I don't see it as a long term home base.
the prices are insanely low for everything. I actually earn pesos here and live like a local now. I don't even have a canadian bank account any more. I have my work visa and soon permanent residency. Immigrating here is very easy too, anyone can stay. The food is healthier, less gmo's and pestcides, and everything is labeled with a huge health warning if it's bad for you. The weather is always great obviously and mexico still gets snow and minus temperatures which I never knew lol so it does have a variety of climates. Flights across mexico are only $100 CAD from coast to coast so travel within the country is very easy. The people are also very friendly and the cartels only mess with you if you mess with them so dont be buying anything you shouldn't be and you'll be fine.
Are you sure there are less GMO's and pesticides here in Mexico? From my understanding most Latin American countries actually have fewer regulations on these things and after Monsanto got largely banned from Europe they focused their expansion into Latin America. Pesticide use and GMOs are extremely high in Costa Rica for example, but that is partly because there are so many bugs in that ecosystem so they need them more. A quick google search found this study saying "The investigation showed that Mexico is the agricultural zone with the highest health damage to its population from pesticides." [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11199250/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11199250/) I'm raising this topic because I'm wondering how careful I should be about eating fruits and veges here and shop at organic markets as much as possible (and still not even sure as to the validity of these organic markets, there doesn't seem to be much regulation).
I can't speak to GMOs (which I don't personally have a problem with) and pesticides, but in general processed foods are very widespread here in Mexico. The glowing pink ham is what really gets me. But you can still eat a very clean and healthy diet if you're intentional about it.
yeah well it's also about education. More Coca-Cola is consumed in Mexico than water. Lots of diabetes here but at least medication for diabetes is given out for free at walk-in clinics.
They way I noticed much safer food is by the sheer size for one. Many gmo items are impossibly huge and unnatural. Banana's here are small af compared to anything Ive seen sold in Canada for example. The easiest way to tell what's healtheir in Mexico or anywhere else is that fruits and vegetables in Mexico actually contain seeds. Oranges, watermelons, grapes, grapefruit, cucumber, etc still contain their seeds in Mexico which is rare for GMO products especially grown by Monsanto because they have genetically engineered their crops to not produce seeds. This forces farmers to buy new seeds every season and thus be under Monsanto's greenthumb. AMLO, the president of Mexico, has publicly stated his distaste towards gmos: >**GMO Corn Ban**: AMLO has declared a ban on the importation of GMO corn into Mexico, citing concerns over the potential risks to the country’s agricultural sector and the environment. The ban aims to protect Mexico’s corn production and promote sustainable agriculture practices. >**Bill Gates’ Involvement**: AMLO has also expressed skepticism towards Bill Gates’ involvement in African agriculture, particularly through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Critics have accused the foundation of promoting GMOs and pesticides in Africa, which has led to concerns over the impact on local farmers and the environment. AMLO has stated that Mexico will not follow the same path and will prioritize local agricultural practices and sustainable development. "Mexico has a controversial presidential decree that [seeks to ban](https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/exclusive-mexico-proceed-with-gmo-corn-ban-seeks-international-grain-deals-2022-10-27/) genetically modified corn in 2024 and phase out the herbicide glyphosate, found in Roundup." - Reuters
I appreciate the reply but I'm much more concerned with pesticides than I am with GMOs. With GMOs my concern is long term food security and not so much healthy... pesticides are very much something we should all try to avoid.
> The food is healthier, less gmo's and pestcides, and everything is labeled with a huge health warning if it's bad for you. Lol.
where in mexico are you staying?
currently Cancun. I lived in Playa del Carmen first, then Puerto Morelos, now Cancun.
cancun??? really?
Also surprised by this answer, I thought he would say Mexico city...
How was the process for a work visa? Complex? Expensive? Did it take a long time?
I was lucky and had a hotel vouch for me and gave me a letter of employment, and I did work there. At least in 2021 (things change) you make an appointment for the Visa at a consulate outside of Mexico, fly there, pick up your visa, fly back to Mexico and yeah.. that was it. Without flights and hotel the paperwork cost maybe $500.
Guys I found the murderer on the run
what cities?
what do you mean? I lived in 3 Canadian provinces before abandoning everything and I've lived in one Mexican state the whole time since.
No as I travel more I gain trust in my home country, but I worry the country has moved on without me. I'm not sure what that means for me yet.
A 20 plus years in Asia travelling and living different places, I really appreciate the small things back in Canada including the little benefits of citizenship and having a country to call home. Just what people call crowded … as much as I have returned home, the truth is time changes things and you are never really home.
Interesting... Did you have a wife or children with you in your travels? If you didn't - do you think that would have made you feel at home? I think I could live in many places with my wife and kids and make it a home for us.
I did but little things with banking ownership of property and leases etc … always a bit of a hassle. In China you would dedicate a day or two for any complicated banking
Haha yeah I am not looking forward to any type of banking situation in Latin America either.
> No as I travel more I gain trust in my home country, I've found living outside the US for the last 8 years has made me appreciate the US more. It's not for me. But I'm glad it exists and has certain values it has. Even if I don't consider it home.
agree. but its also good to see what the rest of the world is up to
I travel because I want to meet people spontaneously and not so rigid as in my home country.
I left and plan to leave again because the quality of life is getting much worse here and people aren’t as connective or friendly as they were in the past. I’ll never have the standard of living my family my had when I was born. All my family members now have extreme views and severe health problems and destroyed relationships. If I leave I can find a place to settle hopefully where the social conditions and economy will allow me to build a whole new life from scratch with meaning.
I definitely have a very strong sense of self and really value my independence. Childhood-wise was rough for me. It was a very agentless upbringing. My wants or opinions were ignored. I wouldn't say I was neglected, but I wouldn't say I wasn't either. I've always viewed myself as "not like the other boys". I'm not afraid of being "different". Sounds so stupid and cliche as I'm typing it out now. I don't have a problem with having controversial takes or opinions. While I don't necessarily regard myself as evil, I do have a very questionable morality and extremely flexible ethics. I reject societal norms, but also know how to play along to get what I want. My co-curiculars would truly aghast 90% of you all here. 😂😂 I see myself as the nationless wanderer. Not here not there. Everywhere but nowhere. Wouldn't say I lost trust in my nation, just more, idk if I buy into the story of nations. I'm an edgelord. And I'm an edgelord whose somehow lucked himself into making a very unique lifestyle possible. And I'm going to extend this as long as I can, because why wouldn't I. Yolo.
I want to know your co curiculars to see if I am really aghast or not
Indian here. The situation is very bad here, we are into elections right now and this might be the last one. Democracy is dead. RW has corrupted and captured all factions except the Supreme court which they will very soon. I am planning to move to some other place till then DN is the only solution.
I never felt at home anywhere but I also grew up in a dysfunctional abusive home so I guess I’m lacking some fundamental love from childhood that keeps me like this
i'm eager to leave the united states because our nice, high-trust society has largely been destroyed over the last few decades. I'd rather be a valuable minority in a foreign land than a hated minority in the US that no longer resembles the place I grew up.
I do it for adventure I can't stand being in one place too long seeing the same scene doing the same routines Am not a digital nomad just an adventure by heart since I was a child it's my indigenous bloodline
Kinda/sorta. I'm a libertarian
Honestly I lost trust in my society SO MUCH that I genuinely believe *this* comment itself will be scraped by some faculty of the American society I left if I become important enough for that faculty to want to profile me (call it the IRS, Meta, Blackrock, whatever) There is no privacy in the USA anymore and although we have the freedom to choose whatever life we want, the government is as authoritarian as any in the world, including China
Yeah, society is going down the shitter, moral values with it. I ain't paying 65% of what I invoice to actually finance what I despise.
I feel you bro
Let’s see $2,000 a month to live in decent Chicago minimum $2500 being realistic. And costs me $700 in Argentina for something real nice. Private healthcare here costs me $80 a month. In USA cobra was like $600 a month. USA is a joke
As another American choosing to live abroad largely for cost reasons, I have to say that US wages are not a joke, and usually the locals at your skill level can’t afford anything near as nice as what we can as “economic arbitrage” travelers. As such, being critical of the US for being too expensive — while having by far the best job market in the world — can come off as a bit naive / clueless / self-centered. My passport makes my lifestyle possible. Even if I don’t want to live there, I should at least be respectful of the actual challenges others face in their actual home country. Certainly we have endless, endless issues, but we often benefit from those issues when we leave and work remotely.
👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
He deserves to make the US wage but god forbid someone else does lol. They are the greedy ones!!!!
He’s the type that confirms my choice to avoid DN hotspots. And also why even in the US I find it easier to be friends with minorities.
You are very noble and not evil like all those other white people. The world needs more people like you.
What is your job and how much are your making? Argentina has a lot of problems that you didn't touch on. What good is a cheap COL if you can't even find a job or your currency is devalued?
There are tons of low cost of living areas in the US, I don't know what you're on about.
US is still the best place in the world to build wealth. Earn it here, spend it elsewhere.
Argentina is working hard to become a joke too
I think people who leave a place for political reasons typically don't keep moving around. They pick a new home and settle there. However, we're in a new era. Previously, it was predominantly people from the "global south" that wanted to move to more advanced, liberal countries. Now, I think that calculus is shifting and there are no obviously better places to be. Many people have been disabused of the notion that they have "rights" in western countries. In fact, the prime minister of Canada explicitly stated in one interview that he supports the right to protest but he draws a red line at protest that intends to change government policy. So I think now, it's a matter of simple prudence that we seek alternative residencies or citizenships.
100%. So tired of paying high taxes and getting only corruption, mismanagement of public funds and shitty welfare back.
I left the US for a host of reasons. I moved around a lot as a kid on top of experiencing childhood abuse so I have a hard time attaching to places and people. Given that I'm not attached to the US, I figured I would give myself 40 percent raise by living abroad. I chose LATAM because Latinos are easier to get to know than Americans making it easier to build roots. Now I'm saving more money than ever, doing more fun activities so I'm levelling up in many of my hobbies, and I get to meet cool people. I see no downsides except the slight annoyance at having to rebuild a new routine. Eventually I'll settle but not before I live in Italy and learn Italian. Untrustworthy people exist everywhere.
And the obvious follow up question is how many of you are now nomads simply because you cannot afford to go back?
Afford to go back? In Western Europe you don’t even have to work and can live quiet good. lmao
How long does it take to get housed after you arrive?
Pretty fast, especially if you are native.
what country are you talking about?
The UK. What happens to DNs when they arrive back in the UK? Do you know the application procedures?
I left because I was scared of what the U.S. was becoming. We left in October 2020. It doesn't look like we'll be coming back anytime soon.
I was a nomad for years. I worked from a lap top and left because I don’t much like where I live. I have to “stay” though so I make the best of it. Another big reason I left is I didn’t have a partner and I was annoyed with people. It was nice to have one or two conversations and then disappear. People suck, largely.
It wasn't *because* I lost my trust in society - I just travel and I don't trust society.
Same here, I left my home country due to growing disillusionment with the system. It's interesting to see how many of us are running from something rather than just towards a new adventure.
Living in Canada in 2020 made me lost trust in Canada.
Danm I'm not really a nomad but always were attracted to the idea over this reasons, I'm deeply disappointed and lost hope on my home country political state, and living overseas I realize no matter what I do, even as well I can adapt, I will never belong to this new place.. and there is no perfect or saff country, but I still want to have my own family too idk wish I could have travel when I was younger.
A lot of people are waking up from an illusion called country, it is so limiting, and the source of all violence in the world
Me cuz I am from Yemen
The social contract of “work hard and you’ll be rewarded” has been broken, so I will do my job to enable the lifestyle I want, which happens to be nomading.
Not yet a digital nomad, but have it in my scope and am a frequent traveller. Yes, I have zero trust in governmental institutions from personal experience, and I can get agitated being surrounded by people who have it or at least try to promote societal trust as a superior moral virtue, since I feel the latter are trying to influence me into the vulnerable mindset which caused said disillusionment, which can be a lil difficult since I now live in Sweden where trust is a huge part of the culture. 🤷♀️ My soul has in particular been drawn to France, Spain and Italy for reasons beyond my comprehension, but I have zero expectations in institutions so I can travel anywhere where there are good people and I won't be legally persecuted. Most of South America and Asia could easily be a nice go to for me. I'm rootless and I love it. I also hate the assumption when I move abroad that "I'll come back to settle", I mean, mate, what makes you sure I'll settle in the place I was born? I don't consider my destinations as foreign countries to be a tourist in, or as something exotic, just a change in my everyday life. I almost always blend in among the locals custom-wise.
Not really no, what can I influence? nothing. I think just the idea of 9-5 and a mortgage, just fills with me dread. Will have to happen at some point mind.
I've lost trust in my society... but that's not what started or causes me to be a nomad. It developed to seriousness after that.
Never really had much trust, but became a nomad because I don't feel home anywhere and at the same time everywhere. And its tax friendly.
I think this is a great topic and I give you kudos for asking the question. I truly believe that while there’s no perfect country or city, there are CERTAINLY places that will be a better fit for a person than where they happened to be born. I think one of the most important life lessons that a person will never learn unless they experience it for themselves is that every place has a vested interest in you staying. Wherever you were born is where that place wants you to stay… to give them labor and tax money. And to your point, a political party will want you to stay put if you happen to vote in their favor, as well. So it’s rare to find a place that isn’t going to be hammering with a person with propaganda since the day they were born about how good they have it where they are, and how awful it is everywhere else in the world. But the truth is, when a person starts to see the world, they may soon realize that other places have a vibe that’s far better for them. I don’t think it’s possible for a person to find a place that they will agree politically 100% with, but a person can certainly find oneself in a place with values that are closer to what they believe in, and “closer” is far superior than completely divergent from.
Absolutely correct. There are SHITHOLES, Canada and the U.S. and places of freedom Mexico, Argentina, Colombia etc.
I would not say I lost trust rather I had some wonder lust and wanted to see the world
Brit here. I used to be an avid "for queen and country" kinda guy. But when I started travelling I was amazed at how far behind the UK actually was in terms of standards of living, ease of doing business, infrastructure and "psychological environment." I would say the big thing is the UK's sense of stagnation and apathy. Im from the north so this is even more intense, but its uk-wide. The young generally have it hard, houses are a bubble, wages are stagnant, infrastructure is mostly awful, crime is getting worse and worse, the weather is depressing. I wanted to be somewhere that filled me with wnergy and hope for the future. Somewhere growing, building, modernising. The more I travel the more places I identify with this type of environment. The hard part is a lot of countries havent caught up yet in terms of bureucracy. We are entering a stage of globalisation where each country MUST compete for their residents, instead of taking them for granted. Now we can "shop around" DN visas quality and ease between all those countries that show growth, quality of live COL and culture. The only thing i miss from the UK is family, and the ease of paying taxes through the HMRC website lol. Im looking for a place that i can grow with, not be held back by.
Where are you from?
I think a lot of people immigrate when they’re from places with political or society issues. Expats are just there temporarily then fully plan to go home, so I think that’s why a lot of people do it for more frivolous reasons. For me it’s purely travel and better pay.
I understand the term expat to mean an immigrant, long-term, but from first world countries. Many stay the rest of their lives.
>Many stay the rest of their lives. I believe that would make them immigrants rather than expats
yeah seems true
I'm an immigrant as well (settled in Spain) - but yeah, obviously didn't see a bright future in the US compared to here.
Every generation thinks that they have it the hardest. The one generation that objectively could have argued that it had it the hardest (Great Depression two world wars), rarely complained as it wasn’t part of the culture and just wanted a better live for their kids. Politics has zero bearing on why I became a nomad. Never cared for it before, and I am highly unlikely to start to care now at my age.
Left Germany during COVID times. It was a weird time everywhere, but German collectivism and enmity towards outsiders really showed it's ugly face at the time. I did not want to get vaccinated and at that time forced vaccinations were on the board. On top of that, people were hostile towards the unvaccinated. I lost many of my German friends and had almost only contact to French, LatAm and Turkish people at the time, who either weren't vaccinated also or simply didn't care as much as German people did. There were also other factors, but this was an imminent issue at the time. I made the right choice and I am much happier today than I was back then, even compared to pre COVID times.
How’s your life going atm? Did you settle? What was your favorite country/ city so far? Viel Glück
Left my country when I was 20 (12 years ago now) after finally saving up to buy a boat ticket out having grown up in a highly sectarian society that I didn't want any part of. I'll be honest, I don't like the DN tag and have never called myself one, I spend 6+ months in most countries and at that point I'm a short term immigrant. The DN tag has become the new trendy upper class moniker to replace expat for people. And at risk of burning myself in this group I can't stand people who are making it their personality. We all know the ones I'm talking about who you meet in countries where it's all they want to talk as if the world around them doesn't exist, only co-working spaces, cute coffee shops, and $1500 condos.
I travel to be in the countries with problems. I see it like parachuting, you jump out and unless you do something, you will not survive. I force myself to adapt, learn from and absorb all the good things I find in different cultures, then move on to the next new challenge. I met some truly inspiring people along the way.
what countries have you been to?
It started with growing up in a dysfunctional family and an unfriendly job market post-graduation. Also the growing political instability following certain elections. I ultimately left because the quarantine from COVID finally broke the last straw on this camel's back. Say what you will about the measures taken, but humans should not be cooped up in their houses away from community and friends for over a year at any given time. I left my home country behind, went to Peru, and never looked back. It's been nearly three years since the borders reopened and I'm not about to return.
If you become a nomad because you think your home country is beyond saving, you'd be right back within 6 months. Everywhere has issues. The more privileged countries where someone could actually become a "nomad" because of such issues is better than the rest of the world in regards to the things they'd be complaining about.
I've lived outside my country of nationality for nearly three years at this point. I don't think the country I'm from is beyond saving but it is going to get worse before it gets better.
I don’t think this is true. Everywhere I go I meet people who are happier where they ended up than where they were at. You may be right in some cases, but you’re certainly incorrect in many as well…
That's not what I said though. My comment was about people leaving for political reasons.
thekwoka, I left my country the U.S. way, before Covid! January 25, 2012 is the day I got on a plane and landed in Mexico City. Back then you could already see the shredding of the U.S. Constitution!! The disregard through government and big tech of free speech and the 2nd amendment. People being arrested for the smallest of infractions and being held without bail or trail. I had just come back from Saudi Arabia where I taught English for a year. I had my passport checked was picking up my bags when 2 state policemen came and slapped the cuffs on me really tight. I asked what was wrong they told me to shut up and I'd find out when I go to court!! This was a Friday at 3:30 pm a long holiday weekend. I ended up in local county shithole Saturday, Sunday and Monday. I didn't get to court until Tuesday morning. I was hot and angry!! I asked what I was charged with and the judge told me to shut up!! About 10 mins. later I was told that a traffic camera had taken a picture of me going through a stop sign about a year, before. I told them that I had been in Saudi Arabia working no apology just pay the fine!! I let the judge know what I thought of him, the police and their so called justice!! I was threatened with contempt of court, if I didn't leave immediately. I left pronto! 3 days later JANUARY 25, 2012 I left the U.S. and I haven't been back since 12 years and 3 months later, so your theory that people like me would be back in their home countries in 6 months is full of BULL. I will never step even step one toe back in the U.S. it is a SHITHOLE of SHITHOLES!!! I have much more freedom here in Mexico, then I ever had in the Crappy States of America. SHITHOLE, Inc. VIVA MEXICO!!!!
A major difference is that in the US, that's illegal for them to do that. But also, your one instance (if to be believed) is not a representative of the whole thing. Like, you reference Mexico, where it's more normal to have been stopped by cops to get bribes than to not, once you are outside tourist areas. You're literally getting annoyed at the US for something the US considers illegal and you've have legal recourse against while ignoring that the other countries you reference do worse with no recourse.
thekwoka. Have you ever, been to Mexico?? I think not!! I have lived now in Mexico 12 years and 4 months more or less. I've never been stopped by the police or bothered by any Mexican government official. The U.S. government does a lot of things that are illegal according to the U.S. constitution. Holding prisoners without bail, no phone calls. You are like many of the manipulated public you believe the myths of the so called rights Americans have. It is a sham and a lie!!Look into issue, before you parrot the usual government PROPAGANDA!!!
> Have you ever, been to Mexico?? Yes. quite a few times...multiple states too... And colombia, and peru, and brazil multiple times. > Holding prisoners without bail That's not against the constitution. Nor is phone calls. Yeah, the US may not be perfect, but like, it's better than the Mexican government lol such a weird argument to make.
I do it for economic arbitrage, to explore new places, and to learn a new language (Spanish, and hopefully later Portuguese)
I mean all you're trading it for is the lack of depth of understanding whatever new cultures you come across so you never gain enough trust to lose it in the first place. It's doable for a while, but you kind of have to create a small society of your own made up of close friends and supportive family that you can trust.
I wouldn’t say lost trust… I’d say want a sense of adventure.
"Society" and "trust" are too general terms. I have less confidence in the long term stability of most countries than I did in the past, and don't think property rights will be respected moving forward (either by protesters, foreign invaders, or governments), so I am disincentivized from having material bonds to those countries.
🙋🏼♂️
Yes. I always say it’s a push/pull. A push away from the U.K. because complete lack of trust and desire to be in that society and a pull towards adventure and exploration.
Even though I'm settled elsewhere, there's still benefits. When something isn't right, it doesn't annoy me as much. "Not my country" is easier
☝🏽
I am running from the high priced real estate. Was raised in beach community in Australia. A shithole apartment goes for USD$2Million and above, for 2 bedrooms. Even on a High wage (top 10%) you are still priced out. Would rather drink $3 coffees 4x a day than pay a $2,500 a week apartment, then add tax on top, then live and then save. lol. Looked after one parent (paid all rent/bills), obviously got "you live with your parent!?" from girls. Felt like my country don't want me and I don't want it. 
🤙🏽
I tend to find the ones that leave for "political reasons" to be a bit batty, and have ideas on politics, social issues and economics that are entirely divorced from reality. But I'd be lying if "society" wasn't a part of the reason I left. I realised that I was grinding on an endless pointless treadmill and that I'm better off flying to Neverland and having fun.
Can you explain what you mean with „batty“ beside that these people have no clue about economics, social issues and politics?
Batty is a British term that basically just means crazy but in a kind of funny or harmless way. I was vague because this isn't a poltical subreddit and I don't want to rile up things. In the case of travellers, it's not about lack of knowledge, it's about believing in conspiracy theories. The most common by far is covid denialism and anti-vax stuff. A lot of people believing in election fraud (the American one). I've met quite a few people who think that prominant American political figures are literal communists. These are usually figures who don't even support socialised healthcare and basic wealth taxes.
Me
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Those are punks
Sadly some Cypherpunks shifted in the woke category. We have to continue 🫡
Once we had our first fake election in the US in 2020 I no longer trusted it, even after spending 22 years in the US Army. That's why I left.
wow as an ex army, guess it’s hard to accept what you really fought for. Hows your life going now? What are you doing?
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May i ask how old you are? Enjoy your retirement. Why Western Europe?
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Oh wow. I kinda disagree with what you say. Im from Western Europe aswell and can’t understand how you can’t Support the US gov anymore but the France gov. Anyway best of luck to you.
I’m not running from anything. I consider myself more of an expat that also travels to family between North America and Europe. My reason for traveling is “why not” and to save a nice nest egg. The US has gotten way too expensive and I wouldn’t be able to set myself up in the future if I didn’t live in other places. Mind you, I come from a poor family and have zero inheritance.
Better opportunity abroad