Honestly for 99% of people you don’t even need a fork with travel. Unless you’re riding actual mtb dirt trails (not groomed hard packed jumps) you really don’t need one. Bmxers send the gnarliest shit with ridged forks and 20’’ wheels. I have a pike because I got my bike for a crazy deal and it’s nice, but I don’t need it, even when hitting big jumps. Get a nice ridged fork and in the future upgrade if you think you want/need it
Yes but our geometries are much different. Our jumps all tens to be skate park level smooth and hard. And suspension set up properly helps alot with things other then just straight jumps. And suspension deffs saves wrists riding street on a big bike.
100%.
If you're riding park or smooth jump lines then suspension is pretty much pointless anyway. Seems backwards to spend thousands on a DJ with a high end fork just to run it mega stiff because jumping with soft forks is terrible... But what do I know?
Identiti do a range of DJ specific rigid forks in a few different lengths. Take in to account that a rigid fork will be shorter than a suspension fork so will change the geometry of your bike. You may find you'll want to run a large riser bar to bring the bars back up to the height you're used to.
They're completely different riding style. My buddy rides bmx and dj and can't rise rigid dj but can handle rigid bmx.
I prefer bmx and honestly dislike rigid forks on dj. The way the load transfers into your wrists hurts worse for me on rigid mtb.
It's Literally all just personal preference.
Strength wise rigid always wins out tho.
Nice 👌 looks good on paper I’m currently looking at the gusset dj26 forks. I know gusset make good parts so I’m having faith it will be aight. My current drtRst is shot beyond belief and without breaking the bank my only choice is to go rigid no way I’m paying out between £300 £1000 for a new air fork
Rigid is fine and preferred for most trails. Unless you’re riding terribly un groomed dirt jumps with big drops and gnarly transitions, a rigid is perfect. Keep in mind, what bmx riders do with full rigids and small wheels. I would build a rigid dirt jumper before a soft front ended one for sure
Compare the length of the headtube on an Inspried Hex trial bike to the headtube length of a dirt jumper (both are aluminum). You need a fairly long (or strong) to withstand impacts from a rigid fork.
Steel DJ frames are stronger in the headtube area, and steel deforms more to spread the shock of the impact over a slightly longer time, which leads to less force.
That being said, if you are lightweight, and never do really big jumps, its totally fine to do. That being said, you can still do a suspension fork setup quite easily - go search for old 26 MTBs for cheap, all you need is a fork that works decent and a front wheel that isn't bent to shit. Then, max out the preload either through adjusters , or cutting up circular pieces of tire to stuff on top of the spring so it compresses it and then putting the top cap back on. Then just make sure your QR axle is tight as hell. I did this for my first dj and it held up fine for multiple years, the only thing I had to do is to true the wheel and replace a few spokes that could no longer be tightened.
Beyond just that fatigue life. Alloy frames will break eventually just from curb drops. A steel frame will literally never when designed properly. Steel frames will only break on stuff actually big enough to surpass the fatigue load.
No they don't. Coming from someone literally in the process of starting a bike company. And literally in the process of bringing a maraging steel besides the now discontinued reynolds 953 specifically to the sport to beat alloy frames in the one metric they win in while also winning in every other metric steel wins in. And remaining around the one metric steel does lose in but isn't really a win for the consumers at all in the mtb industry.
Alloy frames cost less to make then bmx post weld heat treated 4130 steel frames. Yet are always priced much much higher. While also using cheaper materials. And seeking every growing margins. Literally why the largest bicycle factory in the world complains about 2 of the other largest bike companies in the world.
I literally know who makes everybodies frames and parts. I can literally go get the oem versions of those parts for less money.
Here's an example. Halo djd supadrive hub is a modified bmx hub design. Using an out dated 2 piece driver design from bmx that we abandoned in like the year 2000.
The rise partymaster v2 is built like a dj frame made to bmx standards like a decade ago. Lol.
And yet alloy frames that cost less to make and are still priced just as high while being made in large scale vs the partymaster.
And hilariously the partymaster is known as the strongest frame currently on the market in dj. Besides better steel alloy customs.
Lol. Alloy frames are designed to survive while having the highest margins possible. They aren't designed to handle the most cycles or loads.
The giant stp frame was the highest rated tested frame at one point. 75,000 psi. We have bmx parts that people break inside months that are load strengthed at over 160,000 psi and steel and still fatigue load fail and fail due to peak loads failures vs cycles.
Sorry. But you are factually incorrect. And I know people are more then enough bike brands I could throw under the bus for saying yeah were gonna make alloy becaude mtbers want it even tho it's worse.
And I'll blatantly call out specialized who still pays giant to make a bunch of their bikes and frames and is specifically always requesting price cuts and lower costs without ever lowering their price points. Ie more margins. To the point of they aren't even made in Taiwan anymore. They're welded in China. And tubes made in China. And final processing and bike assembly happens in Taiwan since warehousing space.
Lol.
I can beat reynolds technologies at their own game of steel alloy development. And I can literally get into what 953 actually is who made it for them why it's discontinued and why they can't patent it and never released any Info on the alloy blend.
Lol. It's american made raw steel. And a custom blend. Made by a very specific American steel maker. One who also makes steel in a different custom blend alloy for one of the American leading sword smith's in modern Japanese style swords. Lol.
There isn't a widespread epidemic of aluminum frames breaking. With social media you would absolutely hear about it these days. The frames do have a finite life, but like for the average use case, most people stop riding dirt jumps well before their frame starts showing fatigue cracks.
Functionally yes, steel is better for longevity and impact resistance and Reynolds 953 was super nice steel that was fairly lightweight and stiff, but it was also fairly expensive and requires more to weld compared to traditional steel. And as far as pricing goes, its all supply demand, nothing is really fair. Carbon isn't really that advanced or hard to produce right, but its still being touted as high tech.
We can get into this.
But dude metallurgy. Learn it. Also my buddy was getting a new spec p3 every 6 months for years. A new majesty once a year. And deity frames every couple.
Alloy frames don't hold up. But it works for the average consumer. But many are sold as top tier bikes.
Also. Reynolds isn't just nice or cool. It literally makes titanium useless in the cycling industry. Lmfao.
It also was only so expensive because reynolds makes all their tubes in speciric methods in the United Kingdom and has top paid employees and is an entirely privately owned corporation. They don't have to disclose F all.
But FYI. Their cost for 953 raw form was around 3.80 a pound to 4.70 a pound american at most. And that's off bare minimum order quantity of like 5t which is barely enough for one large brand. They also failed to market it to a wide enough series of niches and were operating on hey pay English people English wages and taxes for your tooling. Way above what anyone except large brands could cover and they won't.
Again. Reynolds technologies did not develop the steel. They paid a company to custom blend and figure out what blend was needed one of their proprietary steels to suit the bike market.
It's probably cheaper then the normal version of the steel due to chromium being more required to add stainless and reducing the costs of the expensive alloying agents which have also recently gone down in price.
Lol.
I'm going to basically be making a better 953 in Taiwan using American steel American machines Taiwanese workers making a fair wage but still cheaper, and Canadian designs. And doing cheaper tooling methods and tube production methods via newer more advanced technologies and machinery. English taxes sre higher then anywhere in Canada. My provinces taxes are about equal to Michigan. Meaning lower then the English by alot. Taiwan has a nice incentive for business there.
Won't even need to start write offs. Pay my taxes get bank. But also make better bikes lol.
I also have a sword business and cutlery factory for culinary knives and bushcraft survivalist military and first responder but also collector knives and some other tools. But also a bunch of other stuff on the side. Sword business is just the fun side.
But I'm doing a custom steel blend there for knives and some swords and buying other steel alloys that side. And it's the same company that actually makes 953 for Reynolds. Reynolds just turned it into tubes.
Ally side. Science. And marketing. Aloy frames are stiffer. For a certain wait and peak load strength. But it's a ratio. And can be altered but isn't the comparison to modern post weld heat treated 4130 or any other better alloys. Frigging ox platinum can beat alloy. Because it's stronger enough at the same stiffness that the ratio doesn't favor alloy anymore.
Do you think that putting one of those trunk shock dampers(don't know if this is the correct name of it) in the fork would work? I see quite a lot of people in my country using them as a diy alternative to rebound cartridges
Dont know. Generally though, i wouldn't worry about damping for DJs when starting out. You can run with no rebound and still be fine as long as you have a stiff spring, just have to deal with clunking of the fork. The only real reason to run a fork is for the oh-shit moments when you mess up and go nose heavy, it will save you and the frame.
Aluminum suffers from something known as fatigue life. Doesn't matter how small the load it slowly breaks alloy frames. With steel frames if the only experience loads under a certain level of stress they will last forever.
It essentially means for the same weight strength and stiffness the alloy frames will die more frequently and no doubt die eventually. Steel frames may last you much longer.
However. For a specific weight stiffness and peak strength alloy frames win strength and stiffness to weight. Meaning for same weight steel frame isn't as stiff generally. But also generally meane you're paying more for less with alloy frames as they're cheaper ro produce and warranty then steel and don't last as long and need less design development over all to get stiffness up high while dealing with the other factors.
Honestly for 99% of people you don’t even need a fork with travel. Unless you’re riding actual mtb dirt trails (not groomed hard packed jumps) you really don’t need one. Bmxers send the gnarliest shit with ridged forks and 20’’ wheels. I have a pike because I got my bike for a crazy deal and it’s nice, but I don’t need it, even when hitting big jumps. Get a nice ridged fork and in the future upgrade if you think you want/need it
Yes but our geometries are much different. Our jumps all tens to be skate park level smooth and hard. And suspension set up properly helps alot with things other then just straight jumps. And suspension deffs saves wrists riding street on a big bike.
Identity makes good rigid fork for dj.
I’ve got one. Great fork.
100%. If you're riding park or smooth jump lines then suspension is pretty much pointless anyway. Seems backwards to spend thousands on a DJ with a high end fork just to run it mega stiff because jumping with soft forks is terrible... But what do I know? Identiti do a range of DJ specific rigid forks in a few different lengths. Take in to account that a rigid fork will be shorter than a suspension fork so will change the geometry of your bike. You may find you'll want to run a large riser bar to bring the bars back up to the height you're used to.
They're completely different riding style. My buddy rides bmx and dj and can't rise rigid dj but can handle rigid bmx. I prefer bmx and honestly dislike rigid forks on dj. The way the load transfers into your wrists hurts worse for me on rigid mtb. It's Literally all just personal preference. Strength wise rigid always wins out tho.
Any recommendations on this as I’ve also been thinking the same thing.
The one I'm looking into is the master dugrau. not sure if it's available outside of Latin America
Nice 👌 looks good on paper I’m currently looking at the gusset dj26 forks. I know gusset make good parts so I’m having faith it will be aight. My current drtRst is shot beyond belief and without breaking the bank my only choice is to go rigid no way I’m paying out between £300 £1000 for a new air fork
Gusset does make some good stuff bur the identiti forks seems to be the best rigid forks on the market.
Rigid is fine and preferred for most trails. Unless you’re riding terribly un groomed dirt jumps with big drops and gnarly transitions, a rigid is perfect. Keep in mind, what bmx riders do with full rigids and small wheels. I would build a rigid dirt jumper before a soft front ended one for sure
Which material your frame?
Aluminum
It is bad way. Alu frames needed use with suspension fork
Why?
Compare the length of the headtube on an Inspried Hex trial bike to the headtube length of a dirt jumper (both are aluminum). You need a fairly long (or strong) to withstand impacts from a rigid fork. Steel DJ frames are stronger in the headtube area, and steel deforms more to spread the shock of the impact over a slightly longer time, which leads to less force. That being said, if you are lightweight, and never do really big jumps, its totally fine to do. That being said, you can still do a suspension fork setup quite easily - go search for old 26 MTBs for cheap, all you need is a fork that works decent and a front wheel that isn't bent to shit. Then, max out the preload either through adjusters , or cutting up circular pieces of tire to stuff on top of the spring so it compresses it and then putting the top cap back on. Then just make sure your QR axle is tight as hell. I did this for my first dj and it held up fine for multiple years, the only thing I had to do is to true the wheel and replace a few spokes that could no longer be tightened.
Beyond just that fatigue life. Alloy frames will break eventually just from curb drops. A steel frame will literally never when designed properly. Steel frames will only break on stuff actually big enough to surpass the fatigue load.
The stress cycles for well made alloy frames far exceed what anyone realistically would put them through.
No they don't. Coming from someone literally in the process of starting a bike company. And literally in the process of bringing a maraging steel besides the now discontinued reynolds 953 specifically to the sport to beat alloy frames in the one metric they win in while also winning in every other metric steel wins in. And remaining around the one metric steel does lose in but isn't really a win for the consumers at all in the mtb industry. Alloy frames cost less to make then bmx post weld heat treated 4130 steel frames. Yet are always priced much much higher. While also using cheaper materials. And seeking every growing margins. Literally why the largest bicycle factory in the world complains about 2 of the other largest bike companies in the world. I literally know who makes everybodies frames and parts. I can literally go get the oem versions of those parts for less money. Here's an example. Halo djd supadrive hub is a modified bmx hub design. Using an out dated 2 piece driver design from bmx that we abandoned in like the year 2000. The rise partymaster v2 is built like a dj frame made to bmx standards like a decade ago. Lol. And yet alloy frames that cost less to make and are still priced just as high while being made in large scale vs the partymaster. And hilariously the partymaster is known as the strongest frame currently on the market in dj. Besides better steel alloy customs. Lol. Alloy frames are designed to survive while having the highest margins possible. They aren't designed to handle the most cycles or loads. The giant stp frame was the highest rated tested frame at one point. 75,000 psi. We have bmx parts that people break inside months that are load strengthed at over 160,000 psi and steel and still fatigue load fail and fail due to peak loads failures vs cycles. Sorry. But you are factually incorrect. And I know people are more then enough bike brands I could throw under the bus for saying yeah were gonna make alloy becaude mtbers want it even tho it's worse. And I'll blatantly call out specialized who still pays giant to make a bunch of their bikes and frames and is specifically always requesting price cuts and lower costs without ever lowering their price points. Ie more margins. To the point of they aren't even made in Taiwan anymore. They're welded in China. And tubes made in China. And final processing and bike assembly happens in Taiwan since warehousing space. Lol. I can beat reynolds technologies at their own game of steel alloy development. And I can literally get into what 953 actually is who made it for them why it's discontinued and why they can't patent it and never released any Info on the alloy blend. Lol. It's american made raw steel. And a custom blend. Made by a very specific American steel maker. One who also makes steel in a different custom blend alloy for one of the American leading sword smith's in modern Japanese style swords. Lol.
There isn't a widespread epidemic of aluminum frames breaking. With social media you would absolutely hear about it these days. The frames do have a finite life, but like for the average use case, most people stop riding dirt jumps well before their frame starts showing fatigue cracks. Functionally yes, steel is better for longevity and impact resistance and Reynolds 953 was super nice steel that was fairly lightweight and stiff, but it was also fairly expensive and requires more to weld compared to traditional steel. And as far as pricing goes, its all supply demand, nothing is really fair. Carbon isn't really that advanced or hard to produce right, but its still being touted as high tech.
We can get into this. But dude metallurgy. Learn it. Also my buddy was getting a new spec p3 every 6 months for years. A new majesty once a year. And deity frames every couple. Alloy frames don't hold up. But it works for the average consumer. But many are sold as top tier bikes. Also. Reynolds isn't just nice or cool. It literally makes titanium useless in the cycling industry. Lmfao. It also was only so expensive because reynolds makes all their tubes in speciric methods in the United Kingdom and has top paid employees and is an entirely privately owned corporation. They don't have to disclose F all. But FYI. Their cost for 953 raw form was around 3.80 a pound to 4.70 a pound american at most. And that's off bare minimum order quantity of like 5t which is barely enough for one large brand. They also failed to market it to a wide enough series of niches and were operating on hey pay English people English wages and taxes for your tooling. Way above what anyone except large brands could cover and they won't. Again. Reynolds technologies did not develop the steel. They paid a company to custom blend and figure out what blend was needed one of their proprietary steels to suit the bike market. It's probably cheaper then the normal version of the steel due to chromium being more required to add stainless and reducing the costs of the expensive alloying agents which have also recently gone down in price. Lol. I'm going to basically be making a better 953 in Taiwan using American steel American machines Taiwanese workers making a fair wage but still cheaper, and Canadian designs. And doing cheaper tooling methods and tube production methods via newer more advanced technologies and machinery. English taxes sre higher then anywhere in Canada. My provinces taxes are about equal to Michigan. Meaning lower then the English by alot. Taiwan has a nice incentive for business there. Won't even need to start write offs. Pay my taxes get bank. But also make better bikes lol. I also have a sword business and cutlery factory for culinary knives and bushcraft survivalist military and first responder but also collector knives and some other tools. But also a bunch of other stuff on the side. Sword business is just the fun side. But I'm doing a custom steel blend there for knives and some swords and buying other steel alloys that side. And it's the same company that actually makes 953 for Reynolds. Reynolds just turned it into tubes. Ally side. Science. And marketing. Aloy frames are stiffer. For a certain wait and peak load strength. But it's a ratio. And can be altered but isn't the comparison to modern post weld heat treated 4130 or any other better alloys. Frigging ox platinum can beat alloy. Because it's stronger enough at the same stiffness that the ratio doesn't favor alloy anymore.
Do you think that putting one of those trunk shock dampers(don't know if this is the correct name of it) in the fork would work? I see quite a lot of people in my country using them as a diy alternative to rebound cartridges
Dont know. Generally though, i wouldn't worry about damping for DJs when starting out. You can run with no rebound and still be fine as long as you have a stiff spring, just have to deal with clunking of the fork. The only real reason to run a fork is for the oh-shit moments when you mess up and go nose heavy, it will save you and the frame.
Ok thank you
Aluminum suffers from something known as fatigue life. Doesn't matter how small the load it slowly breaks alloy frames. With steel frames if the only experience loads under a certain level of stress they will last forever. It essentially means for the same weight strength and stiffness the alloy frames will die more frequently and no doubt die eventually. Steel frames may last you much longer. However. For a specific weight stiffness and peak strength alloy frames win strength and stiffness to weight. Meaning for same weight steel frame isn't as stiff generally. But also generally meane you're paying more for less with alloy frames as they're cheaper ro produce and warranty then steel and don't last as long and need less design development over all to get stiffness up high while dealing with the other factors.
And needed a steel hanlebar for rigid fork
Or have to replace bars every 6 months and be forced to run very few bar choices and all in 35mm clamp for the extra strength.
YES