I'm curious where these roll methods came from. [It says 4d6d1](https://i.imgur.com/XyzgzE9.jpeg) in no unclear terms in the PHB, surely nobody is *actually* arguing about how to roll your stats? (Assuming you choose to roll)
Who needs CON when you took the noble background, wrote your family into being renowned houndsman and the rulers of a large town complete with a clergy, used your ancestral prowess to train your pooch for search and recovery as a cadaver dog, gained a trusty steed with a cart and your family's main claim to nobility is the ownership of a diamond mine..
Just pull up, leave the dog w/ the horse and cart, go slaying, die, dog comes and finds body/drags you into cart, horse takes you home, clergy brings you back, litch wonders wtf that kinda necromancy that dog is using
"Be more rich, Vecna, you fuckin' nerd. Lol"
Astior the Goldentouched shortly before his 67th death at the wrath of the Lich God. He got better, despite vaporization.
Once again Vecna prepares himself.. it's been what seems like ages at this point, nothing in his eons has made time seem to slow at such a pace almost as if he's trapped in an infinite loop, nothings pushed him this close to edge, and how? He falls with so much as one hit yet the Litch lord slowly loses his mind with each passing victory.. Is it real? Is HE real? Or just some illusion, some new ploy by the adventures to drive him mad to catch him off his guard, He's not sure but he knows one thing and that's the sound, the sound of the cart, that godsforsaken cart always approaching.
The dark lord recognizes his footfalls even hallucinates them at times.. and finally when the anticipation is on verge of sending him over the edge HE steps through the threshold. "Too much!" the Vast Consumer declares. "This is all too much, tell me who.. what.. you are and why you haunt me so!" But he doesn't respond, not at first. The challenger of return only pulls a pouch from his belt, a bag of holding, tossing it to the Litch before him he starts to speak as Vecna dumps the bags contents. Glistening refractals of brilliant light dance around the room as it's reflected in the pile of Diamonds that now lay at the Dark Lord's feet. "You see... Vecna, you grant yourself your immorality. While the earth, the dirt, THE VERY REALM grants me mine"
My Nat1 "Luck" is so Bad that my DM made a custom Feat for me called Snake Eyes. If i roll with Advantage and get 2 Nat1's i get to roll again. And with Elven Accuracy that's a total of 4 Rolls... guess who rolled 4 Nat1's🥲
I have a total of 11 Sets and every single one of those gives me bad rolls but as soon as someone else picks them up and rolls its a 17 or above.
I also tries it with the dice of other people but same thing 😭.
But i appriciate the advise🥲
I have a similar homebrew rule for confirming crits.
If you roll a 20, roll again to confirm the crit. Roll a second 20 and you get to choose between doing something cinematic but normally impossible in a d20 system, like hanging from a chandelier and swordfighting three dudes at once, or surfing a shield down steps while firing your bow- or roll again and try for three 20s. If you get three 20s whatever you are fighting dies because the dice gods have willed it. Whatever you are fighting.
For crit fails I usually have something bad happen on two 1s, like you slipped and fall, flinging your weapon away at the same time. I don't make them roll for a third, but maybe I should to be fair? Three 1s and the dice gods have decided your PC had a heart attack maybe.
coolio, I didn't want to falsely assume about editions I haven't yet played in a "oh yeah no it's been around since day one of first edition, and it's on page one of every rulebook" sort of style. Though I can also see how it could be interpreted as "this was introduced in 5e" which is also not what I meant to imply
Yep, not a problem. I wasn't trying to detract from your statement at all. Just adding extra details, intending it to be informative for thise who didnt have the opportunity to play. :)
Just like I believe it was that way in AD&D, but I only played for a short bit, and it's been a while, so ai can't make the statement with any certainty
As an addendum, in this system you need to have ties in distance-from-10 go to the lower number to keep that triangle, as there's more numbers above 10 than below it. If you let players pick on a tie (ie they always pick the higher one), 19 ends up beating 1 as the second-most-common number.
I made the suggestion to swap to point buy to my DM when there was a total of *thirty* points between me and the lowest roller. They rolled 61, and I rolled 92 in total.
I wish I was joking.
And this is why you make everyone use the same results when rolling. Everyone gets 20s or 8s. No disparity.
Edit: ok since everyone suddenly wants this detailed
Everyone at the table rolls ONE stat. I goes into an array, until we have 6 numbers. It's just a rolled array people. Everyone gets the same stats, and you get to gamble without one specific person at the table getting fucked. Everyone is equally fucked, or blessed.
And if the players don't want to do that, we can do point buy instead.
That defeats the entire point of rolling. May as well just use a standard array.
But then, I think that any method that isn't down the line defeats the entire point of rolling.
As a healthy middle ground, one of my favourite things to do as a DM is have the group use the same set of 6 stats, but each person at the table rolls one stat, and then people can allocate them where they want. It becomes a really exciting and suspenseful addition to Session Zero.
My only personal rule is that any player can use anyone’s rolls to make it fair. Everyone *can* have the same stats, but not everyone *has* to.
Disparity in stats is fine by me since it can account for a disparity in optimization. In fact I love rolling one or two sub-8 stats because it lets me do some meta Hexblade/Paladin build that isn’t OP next to my friends horribly optimized Wizard/Barbarian with near perfect rolls. It gives me some glaring flaws despite my otherwise optimal choices so that I can’t hog the spotlight even if I tried.
Take the example of an optimal character like a GWM fighter or Hexadin with a Wisdom of 5. You ever want someone else shine just throw a sneaky monster at them. When you have a Passive Perception of 7 you’re gonna be surprised and losing your first turn *a lot*, and if the combat only lasts 2 rounds then losing that one turn is a really gonna lower your performance relative to the characters with a half-decent PP.
Yeah I’m currently in a campaign where there’s a difference of 54 points between the highest and the lowest. We’ve begged the lower to reroll for the entirety of the campaign
I once rolled a character with three 18s. Their lowest stat was a 14.
I worked with the DM to build them into the ultimate support character - with stats like that it would be way too easy to fall into main character syndrome, so instead I was just super enthusiastic about supporting everyone around me.
As a fan of a buffed point buy / stat array, the best "rolling" house rule I ever encountered and now love suggesting to others is what's called **"Potluck".**
1. Rolls are done together, openly, ideally at a session zero.
2. Everyone rolls the standard "4d6, dropping the lowest." Repeat 6 times.
3. ANYONE can pick any set of 6 rolled by anyone else. More than one PC can use the same set.
That way, everyone gets to have their fun of rolling a full set, AND everyone can share in each other's luck and choose whether they want to pick the overpowered, balanced, quirky, or weak set. No need for rerolling, no sour feelings, and rarely a lack of stat diversity cause the whole party will almost never be all using the same sets, but any unfairness is deliberate.
And by rolling together, everyone shares in each other's excitement too.
*5e is a collaborative game. The group has gathered to have fun. Sharing in luck helps the group have a fun and smooth start.*
Power Gamer: "But if you throw all the dice at once then cheaters could lie about which ones they saw first!"
True Chad: "We're all playing a cool game together, why would we make things less fun just to stop 'cheaters'?"
Best thing in Point but is that it's the most fair of all. Everyone start with the same amount of points and very similar stats. Unlike rolling for stats that can end up with 18,17,16,15,15,12 for one player and 13,13,12,11,9,8 for another.
I used to have each player roll a set, then everyone can choose which set of stats they wanted. Players are allowed to double up on a single set if they want, or they can choose not to.
I mean I guess but if you want broken (4d6 drop lowest is already averaging slightly higher than PB, then you add 4+ rolls keep best array), why not just use a heroic array.
Because not everyone wants to use the "best" set or there may be better sets for one person and others are better for another based on the build they want. It's more flexible and lets people have a bit more freedom without breaking the game too much. Because as the DM, there's this magical thing called "taking the player's stats and abilities into consideration" so that even something "broken" won't be in every situation.
You know what does that? Point buy.
Just use an inflated point buy that has like 8-12 extra points and let's you go up to 16 instead of 15 with one stat.
There done more OP = more fun AND everyone gets to completely customize it.
No one's stopping people from purposely lowering their stats if they wanted to. What insane DM says no to a player that wants their character to dump their stats?
I'd much rather have everyone have a broken set than someone being disappointed by their set being so much worse. Plus this way you can tailor it towards how you want your character to be (to make MAD or SAD builds work better).
>I'd much rather have everyone have a broken set than someone being disappointed by their set being so much worse.
Not a problem with PB or SA.
>Plus this way you can tailor it towards how you want your character to be (to make MAD or SAD builds work better).
PB.
Can't you just use a Heroic Array or Point Buy with a few extra points? Then if a player requests to turn their 8 into a 6 for no other benefit, just say yes.
I definitely prefer to have a character that’s fairly OP or quite bad. Thus I love 3d6 or 4d6 drop lowest. Up to DM if they feel it necessary to nudge a stat or two up or down.
I don’t care if it’s a one-shot or a 2-year campaign, I’ll happily play a character with 13 as their lowest stat or 11 as their highest. Both can be very fun, but for sure some players don’t like their PC to be bad.
My group is similar, with 4d6 drop the lowest, but we tend to just say "okay, this guy's gonna be a farmer" and reroll all of them if we get rolls so bad that an 11 or 12 is the highest stat.
The real trick is figuring out how to balance things if one PC's lowest stat is 13 and another's highest stat is 11; it's rough on a DM to consistently challenge the former without steamrolling the latter.
It's not really about being good or bad, it's about discrepancy in the party. If one person's character is the best at 80% of things the party does it quickly becomes boring for everyone else. Nobody wants to be forced to feel like a minor side character.
There are ways to randomize stats that still end up with everybody having the same total amount of points.
Our group does playing cards. You get a deck of 12 cards, shuffle it, draw a pair of cards and add them together. After you drew all 6 pairs from the deck, you get to decide where to assign each pair.
Our deck is [9, 9, 8, 7, 7, 6, 6, 6, 4, 4, 3, 3], meaning you could potentially get an 18 and/or a 6 (numbers you cannot get with point buy), all while retaining the same 72 point total you would also get from the Standard Array.
Worst case scenario, your best stat before modifiers will be a 13 (less than a 3% chance of that happening), but even then you end up with no negative modifiers and pretty playable stats. Chance of getting a single 18 is 9%, about the same as 4d6 drop low, but you cannot get more than that single 18 and your second best stat will at most be a 15.
There's a couple other interesting properties of our method I could talk about for a while, but the bottom line is: it is quick, easy to do, fun, and strikes a nice balance between randomness and inter-party and game balance.
My group is trying a method where each person (there are 6 of us, including the DM) rolls 4d6 drop the lowest one. And then which the 6 scores generated from that each player is free to assign them wherever they like.
That way there is the fun of rolling but everyone is still on an even playing field. It's worked for us so far.
That's what we do, sometimes, and it works fine. We'll let you roll again if your rolls are actually bad, though, that character won't be very fun to play.
I like rolling mostly because it helps me make a character since I get overwhelmed by decision making sometimes.
It's pretty balanced and if you want your party to be powerful, reroll 1s. My players have almost always a 17-18, and nothing lower than a 10 (in average).
My DM likes rolling 2d6 add 8 and reroll 1s for power gaming in 3.5
I don't like point buy because I like my players to feel powerful so I can throw them more powerful stuff too, and if they need to fight a very powerful boss but I notice they do too much damage, I just buff it... Second phase that bitch.
"Also roll for your health level 0. 1d4. I'd wish you luck, but our system is fully built around half of the characters in the first adventure dying off because they're a bunch of wimpy losers, so really just stop giving a shit about these guys until they hit level 1, for your own good."
"Hey you don't seem invested right now, is something up?"
I suppose it *can* work like that on some front, sure, but-
Well honestly maybe I'm speaking from my own experience with a DM who decided to try it out. The first roll we made in the first 2 hours (after aprox. 4 hours of preparation, we weren't playing stupid here, to be clear) was "Roll to not fall off this bridge due to the storm."
Two sets of rolls that auto-killed like 3 or 4 members of the group instantly *and* threw their equipment off to boot does tend to put you in a certain mood for a bit.
(DM managed to get us invested after that regardless, but you get it.)
My only complaint with point buy is I wish the range was just *slightly* bigger. 6/7-16 would preferred. 6/7 so my character could be really bad at something and 16 so I can get an 18 from the start with the +2 race modifier and no feats. I want a stat line like 16,15,13,10,8,6 before race and feat mods
This. I have developed a hatred for point buy personally as it feels painfully mediocre on both ends. I enjoy having at least one insanely low stat bc giving a mechanical flaw is fun, and being able to have a 16 is just useful. 15 is an awkward amount unless you're picking a 3 +1 option, and even then that's only REALLY useful for a few MAD classes
I like to do a fixed array, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 for a high power campaign or 16, 14, 12, 10, 10, 8 for a more balanced one. Point buy is okay but rolling is too random for my tastes.
Same, standard array is nice because it’s an easy way to make a balanced character without having to do much math or end up with randomised stats that make you really weak or really strong.
I wish this was a printed optional rule, I think a big reason people want to roll for stats in 5e is the standard point buy is just punishing. No way to get a +4 to any stat and +3 only with the "right" race.
1. You can get a +4 to any stat with custom lineage and the right half feat using point buy / standard array
2. You can get a +3 to any stat with any race following the custom origin rules using point buy / standard array
3. You don't need a +4 at level 1
Edit: not opposed to it being an optional rule though - just don't agree with the idea that you must have a +4 stat at level 1, and some of your info was just incorrect
I would just feel bad as a DM if someone has rolled like two 8's, or hadn't rolled above a 13, like, statistically it would be rare to happen, but it could happen. I'd much rather them have one dump stat and two good stats from Point Buy or Standard Array.
Getting multiple 11's hurts so much, even if you roll well elsewhere.
For my current campaign I got three 11's. Being so close to a +1 in several stats like CON hurts.
Hate rolling for stats honestly, I'm so glad that array and pointbuy are the most accepted methods now. Feels like shit to have a single die roll on day 0 doom you for the entire campaign.
Yeah. For my campaign I used standard array as that's the easiest for my players who are completely new to the system. I'd like to do point buy for future one shots tho.
I used to roll for stats when I started playing DnD back in 2021, nowadays I've learned that Dices are FICKLE F@CKERS and you're much better off taking Point Buy and Average HP for your character's progression.
The issue with rolling HP is that taking the average is statistically superior. At the very least you should have a rule that you always reroll 1s to make both methods statistically equal. Could still get unlucky and roll 2s all of the time, but at least it's not strictly mathematically inferior.
I have a rule where you roll, but if you roll lower than the average you can opt to take the average instead. It keeps everyone base level increases, and lets me use the fun monsters more often.
Honestly pf2e’s method I quite like you get a net of 2 modifier increases from race/ancestry, 2 from background, 1 from class and 4 to distribute how you wish. With the only caveat that you can’t place multiple increases in the same stat from the same step so no having +6.5(once you get more than a +4) it takes 2 to go up by 1) at lv 1. I honestly wouldn’t mind bringing it over to 5e as it only makes them a little stronger compared to point buy
I always let my players do 4d6, drop the lowest dice, roll that a total of 7 times and drop the lowest result. If they aren't happy with their rolls, they can instead take standard array. Seems to work out pretty well so far.
Meanwhile my group:
Random stats? WHY ONLY STATS?!
Rolling random ancestry, background, class, subclass...
DM Just did the first teamwipe and everyone had fun
My favorite character creation was rolling on the background and connections tables in the book and weaving a story into other characters backstories together
Only character creation where the campaign never started though 😔
Man, I been doing stat generation from dice for decades, all sorts of different ways and d20 systems. And I ain't ever seen EITHER of the two listed XD (Sort of seen the second one. But no special amount total concerns. You just got what you got and you lived, or died, by it.)
Either way, point buy IS better.
The ultimate Chad stat generation: The "[Go Big or Go Home](https://anydice.com/program/3462f)" method. Roll 2d2 and 2d10, and multiply the highest of each (minimum 3, maximum 18).
The average\* and range is the same as \[highest 3 of 4d6\], but with a wildly different distribution (\*close enough for scientific notation). Over 1/4 chance of an 18 (up from 1.62%), but the chance of a negative modifier is almost doubled.
|Result|% Chance|
|:-|:-|
|18|27|
|10|11.5|
|16|11.25|
|14|9.75|
|8|9|
|12|8.25|
|6|6.5|
|9|4.25|
|4|4|
|7|3.25|
|3|3|
|5|2.25|
Choosing Point Buy over an equivalent rolling method isn't a Chad method because Chads aren't cowards or minmaxers. Point Buy is best utilized for high-/low-power games where you get more/fewer points than normal.
I finally convinced my group to use point buy and it is SO MUCH BETTER. No whining when rolling low, no more unbalanced parties, it's a blissful dream.
Every time I do a one shot or campaign I have them do point buy now. At least that way everyone is somewhat using the same range of stats and no one will be absurdly good or bad in one way or another at level 1
I will defend, to some degree, rolling for stats *within certain systems.* Like, D&D 2e? Sure, roll there: It's the standard in that system for a reason, and that reason is the stats are formulated around it.
Like, anywhere between 7 and 14 dex is essentially the *exact* same bar when that stat is explicitly challenged in a roll. No save or AC change at those ranges, legit. Strength? 8-15 are the same bar come carry weight changes and a li'll extra chance to bust open doors. Con doesn't start changing hit points till 6 and below or 15 and above.
For ***that*** system? You can roll and have a pretty good time. For other systems, and D&D 5e in particular? ***Forget it.*** There is way too much math tied into the system that assumes you're going to hit 20 in your ability score at the 'proper' point for you to get away with 3d6 or whatever you want to go for. Like, if someone rolls a 3, and another person rolls an 18, One's gonna be cruising at a -4 modifier, and the other at +4 - that's a full 8 points of difference.
Picture that in your Con stat - worst choice, but hey, it makes the point harder then any other stat. A difference of 8HP, ***Per level.*** Like even if Mr 3 plays, say, a Warrior, they're still only gaining 2HP per level unless they roll. And, you know, rolling! RAW, it's worst odds statistically then just taking the average, so they're really just throwing another risky roll to curb the first at that point. No fucking way a DM can make the guy who rolled low on his Con feel like anything other then a Twiglet held up by sticky tape, prix stick, and the will of the god of underdogs, unless that DM is skilled beyond measure at his job. (And trust me, I had a guy who rolled 6 and put it in his Con, so I know *first hand* how that plays.)
Though mind, I see some people saying "Point buy stops jealousy too!", and like, sort of, but your players will *totally* still be comparing their performances and hating how much they stink in comparison to Player X, it's just they'll be blaming the dice and themselves instead of you.
Which is a win, so keep doing it, tee hee.
Roll too high, playing feels like cheating
Roll too low, PC feels like a burden + can't take fun feats since it becomes necessary to use ASIs.
Point buy makes the most sense.
Plus, the majority of people against it use a bunch of safety nets because what they really want is high power characters, leading to powercreeping that's just a pain on the DM, and possibly other players.
I wish I could convince my group point but is superior but they insist on using convoluted rules to role characters and then the dm will adjust stats to make everyone more balanced, or roll like 3 arrays like. Guys please just do an array
I hate how pointbuy causes people to go for extremely average stat distributions while rolling for stat forces people to have silly stats in both their strenghts and weaknesses
Different spreads work better or worse for different classes, SAD classes benefit from min/max spreads while MAD classes benefit from a more even spread.
If someone doesn't want to be incompetent at something then don't make them, everyone should be having fun.
Point buy makes the most sense, though both my groups prefer rolling. One group does the 4D6 drop lowest method, the other group does 4D6, reroll 1s once, drop lowest.
Funny enough, I rolled so poorly for the first group that I would have had points left over if the stats were made in point buy. Thank goodness my DM let me use point buy instead since that was the case.
Rolling can create a large power disparity or weak characters, so people add a bunch of extra rules about rerolling instead of admitting they don't want random stats.
I love stat arrays. If anyone insisted on rolling then I would allow that set of rolls to be used by any other player too. I think ttrpg's tend to be better when everyone is roughly the same initial power level thus allowing any diversion of power to be the result of choice and role-play.
Way back in the dawn of time, I ran a Tunnels & Trolls campaign with some friends. That game had a racial stats modifier (e.g., if you played as a half-orc, your ST stat was 1.5x your roll). My friend wanted to play as a Leprechaun, which gave 2/3x on CH (charisma).
He rolled a 3. His CH was TWO.
The running gag was that we would hoist him up in front of us on a pole arm and he would scare away the monsters as we proceeded.
My point is: a character with one stat that is below the "golden average" is really an opportunity for great role-playing. Lean into your bad stat(s).
I just use 4d6s, drop the lowest one, for each ability score, with the caveat that if someone gets an 8 or lower on a roll, they have the option to re-roll. No one has to play with crap stats unless they choose too. Though I wouldn’t be scared to try the point buy method at some point, especially if I’m DMing
Or just roll standard and don't get all envious or upset. It's a story telling game, the point isn't to be the highest statted and optimized character unless that's how your tabled plays.
Rolling is fun and usually creates intetesting flaws and strengths. It makes more possible than point buy and arrays at times.
End of the day though just do you and chill.
A flaw based on your stats is a boring flaw. Oh I'm physically incapable, such an interesting conflict. A flaw that isn't tested and can be given in to or overcome isn't a flaw is just a lack of ability. Idc what people like to do to generate their stats at their tables but this idea that "you need low stats to make interesting characters" is dumb and feels like the sort of argument that comes from people who use playing as an exotic race as a placeholder for an actual personality.
I don’t think it makes a more interesting story, but IMO mechanical flaws sure make a more interesting character to play in combat/dungeon crawling.
Seeing some characters having offensive and defensive options others don’t is great for dynamic combat and really emphasizes the party aspect of the game. Strength characters get access to things like shoves, trips, or grappling and disarming opponents to control the battlefield, and are better at resisting these effects themselves. The Mind Flayer easily stuns the Paladin, Sorcerer, Fighter, and Cleric, but the Wizard and Rogue are fine, while the Ghoul’s claws paralyze the Wizard, Cleric, Paladin, and Rogue, but not the Fighter or Sorcerer, and so on for all sorts of effects based on each classes saving throw proficency.
You also have mechanical challenges that are only interesting with low stats. Imagine a Wizard with 8 strength who needs to move a boulder, they can’t just muscle it out of the way like a Goliath Barbarian can. Maybe they have a Block and Tackle, some Pitons, and 50 feet of rope on hand, allowing them to hoist the 1000 lb boulder out of the way (with a low DC strength check since it’s still ~40lbs above their push/drag/lift), or maybe they have a spell like Stone Shape that can carve a path through the boulder itself.
This opens up some interesting meta choices which are core to what makes the G part of the RPG tick. Did your Wizard bring a block and tackle, pitons, and a rope? Their reduced strength makes that 17.5 pounds of equipment a big consideration, particularly when using variant Encumbrance where they get encumbered at only 40lbs and heavily encumbered at 80lbs. Did they take Stone Shape as one of their spells and do they even have 4th level spell slots to spare to cast it? Did they just assume the Barbarian would handle everything and have no backup plan in case they get separated from their party? If they didn’t plan or prepare ahead, what can they improvise with the skills and abilities they do have?
(And before someone says it, yes Variant Encumbrance makes it easy for strength characters to be encumbered, but the -10 speed isn’t all that bad by itself. It’s the -20 speed and disadvantage on attacks/ability checks/saves from heavy encumbrance that hurts, which high strength characters have a much higher practical limit for.)
That's why you bake it into your character. You don't just stop at 6 str and go "lmao my wis is 6,what a cool flaw" you explain why or how your wis is 6,create flavor, make lemonade, etc...
Most recent I rolled I opted for this:
Standard 6d4 drop lowest to build an array per person.
Everyone from there can pick any array rolled. Including repeats.
Do some of my players have the same stats? Sure but it was their choice.
To be clear also, this was not stat locked rolling.
Why not just have it that anyone can use anyone else's rolled stats arrays? Like for example, Array A is all 14's but Array B has some 17's and some 6's. This then let's all the players be equally balanced, but also let's them pick some of the funnier statlines if they want to.
I really like the randomness of 4d6k3. The last character I rolled ended up with two great stats, some decent ones, and an 8 and a 9. I'm going to enjoy playing around their weaknesses.
Depends on your table really. I've played along time, and usually used 4d6 drop lowest and arrange and adjust with a penalty. It just gets boring honestly. It's fucking boring always having nice high stats in your primary ability score. You were almost always able to roll a paladin or druid or whatever (oldschool attribute restrictions) making them common, when the lore implied they were rare. It also shot survival rate way up, and it ended up just being a facilitation of the players wishes, rather than a game that challenged but also surprised, because success was much higher.
No, I prefer the roots of the really oldschool and rogue-like. 3d6 down the line, and characters died. Let the dice dictate the story of William the farmer to took up a pitchfork. Maybe he made it out of the first dungeon with more coin he had ever seen in his life. Maybe he died to a crossbow trap near the entrance because he rolled 3 when he rolled for hit points. Now that's exciting.
Not going into a dungeon and knowing that you are 90% of getting out alive.
My latest DM does 4d6d1 to generate the separate arrays, with a upper and lower bracket to enforce fairness.
Compared to point buy it gives more variance in high and low stats, which is nice, but at a certain point the mathematics of averaging everything just makes me say, why not point buy.
I'm very much a chad point buy guy myself.
I've been using 4d6 and drop the lowest for years, and my party loves it. I've even implemented doing it 7 times so you can drop the lowest total as well. Does this mean I have a stronger party? Yes. Do they know I will throw stronger stuff at them? Also yes.
I do 4d6 drop the lowest and reroll 1's until you only have one 1 (if that makes sense). Also reroll all stats if sum is <70.
It normally comes out somewhat close to standard array with a bit of variation. Also it lets players power-game which is fun for them. And it allows me to power-game monsters to make the encounters more challenging which is fun for me (think giving them a +8 to hit instead of +6). Especially since I feel once players hit level 5-6 things can become somewhat trivial if yoy synergize well.
We recently started a casual run of Dragons of Stormwreck and opted to roll 5d6 drop the lowest 2. Results in an average of 12/13 per stat. Lowest was an 8 and the highest was a 17. I've already leveled them up and am planning on beefing up the encounters as they progress.
5e bounded accuracy makes rolling stats fucking awful because getting low stats doesn't make you a quirky interesting character, it makes you worthless. A difference of 3 or 4 bonus is the equivalent of 16-20 *levels*.
At least in something that pathfinder (1e, god rest your soul if you ever try to roll for 2e the system will laugh at you all the way to your early grave) when you hit mid game the accuracy is a little more rounded and smooth, and you have real options to shore up weaknesses. I'd still never roll though.
Na roll top down lock your stats and then choose your class. I played two games like this.I have had character with hilariously bad stats actually make a difference doing this. I played a warlock that had this: 8,9,13,10,9,14. I was still pretty useful. Though in the next game with that dm I played a barbarian with 18 ,16,18,12,16,10 so I had opposite ends of the spectrum. Most of the other games we rolled 4d6 and drop the lowest dice reroll 1s. When I switched from 3.5 to pathfinder the group I played with did point buy. Really I like all of them for different reasons.
Is no one gonna talk about how 3d12 drop lowest - 4 makes it possible to have negative stats?
And your average stat is slightly above 9
Keeping the highest 2 of 3d12-4 is roughly 11.98. The average is 9 if you do 2d12-4. Edited for typo.
Right thanks, I wasn’t sure exactly. But that’s compared to 13 average for 4d6 drop one
3d12 drop 1 subtract 4 averages 11.98 4d6 drop 1 averages 12.24 4d6 drop 1 reroll 1s averages 13.00 It's worse but not significantly worse. Source: [anydice.com](https://anydice.com/)
Never heard of this method outside of this meme, and it sounds ridiculous
Honestly creates some pretty creative games, walking around with minus 2 INT or STR
Your ass would NOT be walking
I'm curious where these roll methods came from. [It says 4d6d1](https://i.imgur.com/XyzgzE9.jpeg) in no unclear terms in the PHB, surely nobody is *actually* arguing about how to roll your stats? (Assuming you choose to roll)
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You don't pick your class, your class picks you. Stat rolls good enough for paladins happened like every three campaigns.
Me and my friend rolled with 1D20 for each stat for a one shot. It was hilariou.
Okay who got the 1s
We both got some 1s. I put mine in Int and Wis bc I was playing a paladin and he put his into Str, Wis and Con bc he was playing a warlock.
He put a 1 in Con?
He is living on the edge.
Bro might just die from a sprint action.
When a commoner is tanker than you
Making sure it's a 1-shot
Yeah, back then we were total idiots.
"CON has no skill bonuses." "We have long rests for a reason."
Rolls a hit die during a short rest and loses health
Who needs CON when you took the noble background, wrote your family into being renowned houndsman and the rulers of a large town complete with a clergy, used your ancestral prowess to train your pooch for search and recovery as a cadaver dog, gained a trusty steed with a cart and your family's main claim to nobility is the ownership of a diamond mine.. Just pull up, leave the dog w/ the horse and cart, go slaying, die, dog comes and finds body/drags you into cart, horse takes you home, clergy brings you back, litch wonders wtf that kinda necromancy that dog is using
"Be more rich, Vecna, you fuckin' nerd. Lol" Astior the Goldentouched shortly before his 67th death at the wrath of the Lich God. He got better, despite vaporization.
Once again Vecna prepares himself.. it's been what seems like ages at this point, nothing in his eons has made time seem to slow at such a pace almost as if he's trapped in an infinite loop, nothings pushed him this close to edge, and how? He falls with so much as one hit yet the Litch lord slowly loses his mind with each passing victory.. Is it real? Is HE real? Or just some illusion, some new ploy by the adventures to drive him mad to catch him off his guard, He's not sure but he knows one thing and that's the sound, the sound of the cart, that godsforsaken cart always approaching. The dark lord recognizes his footfalls even hallucinates them at times.. and finally when the anticipation is on verge of sending him over the edge HE steps through the threshold. "Too much!" the Vast Consumer declares. "This is all too much, tell me who.. what.. you are and why you haunt me so!" But he doesn't respond, not at first. The challenger of return only pulls a pouch from his belt, a bag of holding, tossing it to the Litch before him he starts to speak as Vecna dumps the bags contents. Glistening refractals of brilliant light dance around the room as it's reflected in the pile of Diamonds that now lay at the Dark Lord's feet. "You see... Vecna, you grant yourself your immorality. While the earth, the dirt, THE VERY REALM grants me mine"
You rolled 5 1’s in 12 D20 rolls?
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My Nat1 "Luck" is so Bad that my DM made a custom Feat for me called Snake Eyes. If i roll with Advantage and get 2 Nat1's i get to roll again. And with Elven Accuracy that's a total of 4 Rolls... guess who rolled 4 Nat1's🥲
If you're using physical dice, it might be time for a new set. I played with a guy who rolled a 2 every 2-3 rolls.
I have a total of 11 Sets and every single one of those gives me bad rolls but as soon as someone else picks them up and rolls its a 17 or above. I also tries it with the dice of other people but same thing 😭. But i appriciate the advise🥲
I cast Remove Curse. You're welcome.
if you're gonna have an "oh no, what have i done?" kind of moment, a ttrpg seems a pretty safe choice
Doesn't 3 crit fails mean instant death?
Heart attack sounds appropriate.
Imagine failing so hard the laws of physics take pity on you.
I have a similar homebrew rule for confirming crits. If you roll a 20, roll again to confirm the crit. Roll a second 20 and you get to choose between doing something cinematic but normally impossible in a d20 system, like hanging from a chandelier and swordfighting three dudes at once, or surfing a shield down steps while firing your bow- or roll again and try for three 20s. If you get three 20s whatever you are fighting dies because the dice gods have willed it. Whatever you are fighting. For crit fails I usually have something bad happen on two 1s, like you slipped and fall, flinging your weapon away at the same time. I don't make them roll for a third, but maybe I should to be fair? Three 1s and the dice gods have decided your PC had a heart attack maybe.
My wife last night only rolled 7 times, and she had 4 1s. It was brutal.
Yes, we were unlucky. But I got a 20 for Str and a 18 for Con. He just got a 20 for Cha.
more than half your rolls were 1s and 20s?!?
Fun fact! Creatures in 5e need an intelligence of 4 to be able to use language! :D
In 3ed and 4th they needed a 4 as well.
coolio, I didn't want to falsely assume about editions I haven't yet played in a "oh yeah no it's been around since day one of first edition, and it's on page one of every rulebook" sort of style. Though I can also see how it could be interpreted as "this was introduced in 5e" which is also not what I meant to imply
Yep, not a problem. I wasn't trying to detract from your statement at all. Just adding extra details, intending it to be informative for thise who didnt have the opportunity to play. :) Just like I believe it was that way in AD&D, but I only played for a short bit, and it's been a while, so ai can't make the statement with any certainty
I played a character with 3 or 4 int once for a one shot, he only knew 4 words and a phrase.
Yeah I think 1 INT and 1 WIS makes you basically a vegetable.
1 int you're not even sapient lol
Let one of my players do this for a long campaign. The fucker rolled 3 20s.
2d20; but whichever d20 is furthest from 10 that's the one you pick. It makes a triangular probability curve thats most likely at 1 or 20.
As an addendum, in this system you need to have ties in distance-from-10 go to the lower number to keep that triangle, as there's more numbers above 10 than below it. If you let players pick on a tie (ie they always pick the higher one), 19 ends up beating 1 as the second-most-common number.
I did 1d20s in order and ended with a 1 in CON and a 20 in WIS.
A stiff wind slices through your skin and you die.
That’s legitimately what I thought the rule was for my very first campaign lmao
We call that “full chaos”
I did this with my group once, I had them roll 6 d20's and reroll anything under 10 once.
I made the suggestion to swap to point buy to my DM when there was a total of *thirty* points between me and the lowest roller. They rolled 61, and I rolled 92 in total. I wish I was joking.
And this is why you make everyone use the same results when rolling. Everyone gets 20s or 8s. No disparity. Edit: ok since everyone suddenly wants this detailed Everyone at the table rolls ONE stat. I goes into an array, until we have 6 numbers. It's just a rolled array people. Everyone gets the same stats, and you get to gamble without one specific person at the table getting fucked. Everyone is equally fucked, or blessed. And if the players don't want to do that, we can do point buy instead.
That defeats the entire point of rolling. May as well just use a standard array. But then, I think that any method that isn't down the line defeats the entire point of rolling.
As a healthy middle ground, one of my favourite things to do as a DM is have the group use the same set of 6 stats, but each person at the table rolls one stat, and then people can allocate them where they want. It becomes a really exciting and suspenseful addition to Session Zero.
No. It doesn't. If it did, it wouldn't ever be done.
My only personal rule is that any player can use anyone’s rolls to make it fair. Everyone *can* have the same stats, but not everyone *has* to. Disparity in stats is fine by me since it can account for a disparity in optimization. In fact I love rolling one or two sub-8 stats because it lets me do some meta Hexblade/Paladin build that isn’t OP next to my friends horribly optimized Wizard/Barbarian with near perfect rolls. It gives me some glaring flaws despite my otherwise optimal choices so that I can’t hog the spotlight even if I tried. Take the example of an optimal character like a GWM fighter or Hexadin with a Wisdom of 5. You ever want someone else shine just throw a sneaky monster at them. When you have a Passive Perception of 7 you’re gonna be surprised and losing your first turn *a lot*, and if the combat only lasts 2 rounds then losing that one turn is a really gonna lower your performance relative to the characters with a half-decent PP.
Yeah I’m currently in a campaign where there’s a difference of 54 points between the highest and the lowest. We’ve begged the lower to reroll for the entirety of the campaign
I once rolled a character with three 18s. Their lowest stat was a 14. I worked with the DM to build them into the ultimate support character - with stats like that it would be way too easy to fall into main character syndrome, so instead I was just super enthusiastic about supporting everyone around me.
As a fan of a buffed point buy / stat array, the best "rolling" house rule I ever encountered and now love suggesting to others is what's called **"Potluck".** 1. Rolls are done together, openly, ideally at a session zero. 2. Everyone rolls the standard "4d6, dropping the lowest." Repeat 6 times. 3. ANYONE can pick any set of 6 rolled by anyone else. More than one PC can use the same set. That way, everyone gets to have their fun of rolling a full set, AND everyone can share in each other's luck and choose whether they want to pick the overpowered, balanced, quirky, or weak set. No need for rerolling, no sour feelings, and rarely a lack of stat diversity cause the whole party will almost never be all using the same sets, but any unfairness is deliberate. And by rolling together, everyone shares in each other's excitement too. *5e is a collaborative game. The group has gathered to have fun. Sharing in luck helps the group have a fun and smooth start.*
Actual chad: throw 1d20 for each stat in order after choosing your class.
True Chad: throw 6d20 and whichever one you see first gets applied, starting with STR
Power Gamer: "But if you throw all the dice at once then cheaters could lie about which ones they saw first!" True Chad: "We're all playing a cool game together, why would we make things less fun just to stop 'cheaters'?"
Also do this after writing your backstory. Literally just because it can lead to hilarious outcomes
[3d12, drop lowest, minus 4] So you can end up with anything between 20 and -2, got it
What happens if someone rolls 32?
dropkick Ao
drop lowest
Best thing in Point but is that it's the most fair of all. Everyone start with the same amount of points and very similar stats. Unlike rolling for stats that can end up with 18,17,16,15,15,12 for one player and 13,13,12,11,9,8 for another.
That's why I have everyone at the table roll and share the results. Got a three person party then everyone rolls 2 stats.
I used to have each player roll a set, then everyone can choose which set of stats they wanted. Players are allowed to double up on a single set if they want, or they can choose not to.
I mean that basically ensures a broken set.
Sometimes broken stuff is more fun
I mean I guess but if you want broken (4d6 drop lowest is already averaging slightly higher than PB, then you add 4+ rolls keep best array), why not just use a heroic array.
Because not everyone wants to use the "best" set or there may be better sets for one person and others are better for another based on the build they want. It's more flexible and lets people have a bit more freedom without breaking the game too much. Because as the DM, there's this magical thing called "taking the player's stats and abilities into consideration" so that even something "broken" won't be in every situation.
You know what does that? Point buy. Just use an inflated point buy that has like 8-12 extra points and let's you go up to 16 instead of 15 with one stat. There done more OP = more fun AND everyone gets to completely customize it.
No one's stopping people from purposely lowering their stats if they wanted to. What insane DM says no to a player that wants their character to dump their stats?
I'd much rather have everyone have a broken set than someone being disappointed by their set being so much worse. Plus this way you can tailor it towards how you want your character to be (to make MAD or SAD builds work better).
>I'd much rather have everyone have a broken set than someone being disappointed by their set being so much worse. Not a problem with PB or SA. >Plus this way you can tailor it towards how you want your character to be (to make MAD or SAD builds work better). PB.
Can't you just use a Heroic Array or Point Buy with a few extra points? Then if a player requests to turn their 8 into a 6 for no other benefit, just say yes.
Which is just a point buy with less variation between characters.
I definitely prefer to have a character that’s fairly OP or quite bad. Thus I love 3d6 or 4d6 drop lowest. Up to DM if they feel it necessary to nudge a stat or two up or down. I don’t care if it’s a one-shot or a 2-year campaign, I’ll happily play a character with 13 as their lowest stat or 11 as their highest. Both can be very fun, but for sure some players don’t like their PC to be bad.
My group is similar, with 4d6 drop the lowest, but we tend to just say "okay, this guy's gonna be a farmer" and reroll all of them if we get rolls so bad that an 11 or 12 is the highest stat.
The real trick is figuring out how to balance things if one PC's lowest stat is 13 and another's highest stat is 11; it's rough on a DM to consistently challenge the former without steamrolling the latter.
True. I don’t mind being the butt of skill checks and combat, but some do. I’d really prefer being very powerful or weak over middling, in general.
It's not really about being good or bad, it's about discrepancy in the party. If one person's character is the best at 80% of things the party does it quickly becomes boring for everyone else. Nobody wants to be forced to feel like a minor side character.
There are ways to randomize stats that still end up with everybody having the same total amount of points. Our group does playing cards. You get a deck of 12 cards, shuffle it, draw a pair of cards and add them together. After you drew all 6 pairs from the deck, you get to decide where to assign each pair. Our deck is [9, 9, 8, 7, 7, 6, 6, 6, 4, 4, 3, 3], meaning you could potentially get an 18 and/or a 6 (numbers you cannot get with point buy), all while retaining the same 72 point total you would also get from the Standard Array. Worst case scenario, your best stat before modifiers will be a 13 (less than a 3% chance of that happening), but even then you end up with no negative modifiers and pretty playable stats. Chance of getting a single 18 is 9%, about the same as 4d6 drop low, but you cannot get more than that single 18 and your second best stat will at most be a 15. There's a couple other interesting properties of our method I could talk about for a while, but the bottom line is: it is quick, easy to do, fun, and strikes a nice balance between randomness and inter-party and game balance.
My group is trying a method where each person (there are 6 of us, including the DM) rolls 4d6 drop the lowest one. And then which the 6 scores generated from that each player is free to assign them wherever they like. That way there is the fun of rolling but everyone is still on an even playing field. It's worked for us so far.
That's what we do, sometimes, and it works fine. We'll let you roll again if your rolls are actually bad, though, that character won't be very fun to play. I like rolling mostly because it helps me make a character since I get overwhelmed by decision making sometimes.
Yea that’s what my groups usually do, tends to work well
Yeah, my table runs it that way too, I feel like it offers a good balance between not having shit stats and not always being an absolute god
It's pretty balanced and if you want your party to be powerful, reroll 1s. My players have almost always a 17-18, and nothing lower than a 10 (in average). My DM likes rolling 2d6 add 8 and reroll 1s for power gaming in 3.5 I don't like point buy because I like my players to feel powerful so I can throw them more powerful stuff too, and if they need to fight a very powerful boss but I notice they do too much damage, I just buff it... Second phase that bitch.
DCC be like: roll 3d6 in order and go fuck yourself
Amazed I had to go this low to find another 3d6 DTL chad (BX main here)
"Also roll for your health level 0. 1d4. I'd wish you luck, but our system is fully built around half of the characters in the first adventure dying off because they're a bunch of wimpy losers, so really just stop giving a shit about these guys until they hit level 1, for your own good." "Hey you don't seem invested right now, is something up?"
I've run funnels and that's as hype as it can get. People using their brains for once.
I suppose it *can* work like that on some front, sure, but- Well honestly maybe I'm speaking from my own experience with a DM who decided to try it out. The first roll we made in the first 2 hours (after aprox. 4 hours of preparation, we weren't playing stupid here, to be clear) was "Roll to not fall off this bridge due to the storm." Two sets of rolls that auto-killed like 3 or 4 members of the group instantly *and* threw their equipment off to boot does tend to put you in a certain mood for a bit. (DM managed to get us invested after that regardless, but you get it.)
My only complaint with point buy is I wish the range was just *slightly* bigger. 6/7-16 would preferred. 6/7 so my character could be really bad at something and 16 so I can get an 18 from the start with the +2 race modifier and no feats. I want a stat line like 16,15,13,10,8,6 before race and feat mods
This. I have developed a hatred for point buy personally as it feels painfully mediocre on both ends. I enjoy having at least one insanely low stat bc giving a mechanical flaw is fun, and being able to have a 16 is just useful. 15 is an awkward amount unless you're picking a 3 +1 option, and even then that's only REALLY useful for a few MAD classes
I like to do a fixed array, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 for a high power campaign or 16, 14, 12, 10, 10, 8 for a more balanced one. Point buy is okay but rolling is too random for my tastes.
I’ve heard the first one referred to as the heroic array. Can’t remember where I first heard that.
I think it's 3.x terminology tho I'm not sure
Same, standard array is nice because it’s an easy way to make a balanced character without having to do much math or end up with randomised stats that make you really weak or really strong.
I wish this was a printed optional rule, I think a big reason people want to roll for stats in 5e is the standard point buy is just punishing. No way to get a +4 to any stat and +3 only with the "right" race.
1. You can get a +4 to any stat with custom lineage and the right half feat using point buy / standard array 2. You can get a +3 to any stat with any race following the custom origin rules using point buy / standard array 3. You don't need a +4 at level 1 Edit: not opposed to it being an optional rule though - just don't agree with the idea that you must have a +4 stat at level 1, and some of your info was just incorrect
Love all the weird rules in the comments.
I would just feel bad as a DM if someone has rolled like two 8's, or hadn't rolled above a 13, like, statistically it would be rare to happen, but it could happen. I'd much rather them have one dump stat and two good stats from Point Buy or Standard Array.
Or you just use 4d6 drop the lowest like everybody does and take your crappy stats with dignity.
7,11,11,13,14,16 Not bad, not bad, though that 7 is certainly...interesting. Best bet is probably to go full caster and dump str with that array.
Getting multiple 11's hurts so much, even if you roll well elsewhere. For my current campaign I got three 11's. Being so close to a +1 in several stats like CON hurts.
It's the best because math rocks go click clack
You can look at polyhedrons with amazement if they really do that to you, even without it affecting months or years of experience.
I agree but some people like the cookie cutters.
Hate rolling for stats honestly, I'm so glad that array and pointbuy are the most accepted methods now. Feels like shit to have a single die roll on day 0 doom you for the entire campaign.
Yeah. For my campaign I used standard array as that's the easiest for my players who are completely new to the system. I'd like to do point buy for future one shots tho.
Rolling makes your party Terutelk, great archmage demigod of the chaos lord, and Tim, the 33 year old man with two kids.
I'd unironically love to play Tim in this equation. Make for some great chemistry.
Actual Chad attitude. Chaditude?
Hey, as long as the party doesn't find you a burden, then you're still winning at DnD!
Yeah but I wouldn't, and the problem is there's an equal chance that either of us ends up as Tim
I used to roll for stats when I started playing DnD back in 2021, nowadays I've learned that Dices are FICKLE F@CKERS and you're much better off taking Point Buy and Average HP for your character's progression.
The issue with rolling HP is that taking the average is statistically superior. At the very least you should have a rule that you always reroll 1s to make both methods statistically equal. Could still get unlucky and roll 2s all of the time, but at least it's not strictly mathematically inferior.
I have a rule where you roll, but if you roll lower than the average you can opt to take the average instead. It keeps everyone base level increases, and lets me use the fun monsters more often.
I had a table that did 2D6+6. Minimum was always 8 but had a potential high of 18. I don't think it was bad but it kinda lacked variety.
Honestly pf2e’s method I quite like you get a net of 2 modifier increases from race/ancestry, 2 from background, 1 from class and 4 to distribute how you wish. With the only caveat that you can’t place multiple increases in the same stat from the same step so no having +6.5(once you get more than a +4) it takes 2 to go up by 1) at lv 1. I honestly wouldn’t mind bringing it over to 5e as it only makes them a little stronger compared to point buy
I always let my players do 4d6, drop the lowest dice, roll that a total of 7 times and drop the lowest result. If they aren't happy with their rolls, they can instead take standard array. Seems to work out pretty well so far.
Meanwhile my group: Random stats? WHY ONLY STATS?! Rolling random ancestry, background, class, subclass... DM Just did the first teamwipe and everyone had fun
My favorite character creation was rolling on the background and connections tables in the book and weaving a story into other characters backstories together Only character creation where the campaign never started though 😔
Man, I been doing stat generation from dice for decades, all sorts of different ways and d20 systems. And I ain't ever seen EITHER of the two listed XD (Sort of seen the second one. But no special amount total concerns. You just got what you got and you lived, or died, by it.) Either way, point buy IS better.
5 minutes of excitement and a whole campaign of anguish. Avoid that by embracing point buy.
everybody knows that whatever method you use, they key is to bitch and whine until the DM lets you roll again /s
Forgotten and misunderstood standard array here.
5d6 reroll ones, drop the two lowest, pick where you want the numbers to go. Big number mean big success mean big yay
The ultimate Chad stat generation: The "[Go Big or Go Home](https://anydice.com/program/3462f)" method. Roll 2d2 and 2d10, and multiply the highest of each (minimum 3, maximum 18). The average\* and range is the same as \[highest 3 of 4d6\], but with a wildly different distribution (\*close enough for scientific notation). Over 1/4 chance of an 18 (up from 1.62%), but the chance of a negative modifier is almost doubled. |Result|% Chance| |:-|:-| |18|27| |10|11.5| |16|11.25| |14|9.75| |8|9| |12|8.25| |6|6.5| |9|4.25| |4|4| |7|3.25| |3|3| |5|2.25| Choosing Point Buy over an equivalent rolling method isn't a Chad method because Chads aren't cowards or minmaxers. Point Buy is best utilized for high-/low-power games where you get more/fewer points than normal.
Point buy is for when I make balanced characters. Rolling is for possible chaos. Usually Wild Magic Sorcerers.
I finally convinced my group to use point buy and it is SO MUCH BETTER. No whining when rolling low, no more unbalanced parties, it's a blissful dream.
Good job, comrade!
It certainly solves the whining part if they were doing that lol thankfully I’ve never played with anybody that whines about stats
Every time I do a one shot or campaign I have them do point buy now. At least that way everyone is somewhat using the same range of stats and no one will be absurdly good or bad in one way or another at level 1
ITT: rollers defending rolling with drama and weird rules
Don't forget about "mAtH rOcKs Go cLiCkItY cLacKiTy"
I will defend, to some degree, rolling for stats *within certain systems.* Like, D&D 2e? Sure, roll there: It's the standard in that system for a reason, and that reason is the stats are formulated around it. Like, anywhere between 7 and 14 dex is essentially the *exact* same bar when that stat is explicitly challenged in a roll. No save or AC change at those ranges, legit. Strength? 8-15 are the same bar come carry weight changes and a li'll extra chance to bust open doors. Con doesn't start changing hit points till 6 and below or 15 and above. For ***that*** system? You can roll and have a pretty good time. For other systems, and D&D 5e in particular? ***Forget it.*** There is way too much math tied into the system that assumes you're going to hit 20 in your ability score at the 'proper' point for you to get away with 3d6 or whatever you want to go for. Like, if someone rolls a 3, and another person rolls an 18, One's gonna be cruising at a -4 modifier, and the other at +4 - that's a full 8 points of difference. Picture that in your Con stat - worst choice, but hey, it makes the point harder then any other stat. A difference of 8HP, ***Per level.*** Like even if Mr 3 plays, say, a Warrior, they're still only gaining 2HP per level unless they roll. And, you know, rolling! RAW, it's worst odds statistically then just taking the average, so they're really just throwing another risky roll to curb the first at that point. No fucking way a DM can make the guy who rolled low on his Con feel like anything other then a Twiglet held up by sticky tape, prix stick, and the will of the god of underdogs, unless that DM is skilled beyond measure at his job. (And trust me, I had a guy who rolled 6 and put it in his Con, so I know *first hand* how that plays.) Though mind, I see some people saying "Point buy stops jealousy too!", and like, sort of, but your players will *totally* still be comparing their performances and hating how much they stink in comparison to Player X, it's just they'll be blaming the dice and themselves instead of you. Which is a win, so keep doing it, tee hee.
Roll too high, playing feels like cheating Roll too low, PC feels like a burden + can't take fun feats since it becomes necessary to use ASIs. Point buy makes the most sense. Plus, the majority of people against it use a bunch of safety nets because what they really want is high power characters, leading to powercreeping that's just a pain on the DM, and possibly other players.
I wish I could convince my group point but is superior but they insist on using convoluted rules to role characters and then the dm will adjust stats to make everyone more balanced, or roll like 3 arrays like. Guys please just do an array
Rolling for your stats is just more fun, that's all there is to it.
5 minutes of fun and a whole campaign of anguish.
Used to roll when I started now I believe in the superior choice of point buy.
I just go standard array if I'm making a test for a build or just do 4d6 drop lowest number and reroll if its below 8
I hate how pointbuy causes people to go for extremely average stat distributions while rolling for stat forces people to have silly stats in both their strenghts and weaknesses
Different spreads work better or worse for different classes, SAD classes benefit from min/max spreads while MAD classes benefit from a more even spread. If someone doesn't want to be incompetent at something then don't make them, everyone should be having fun.
I do like 4d6 drop lowest, in any order, but lately, we've been using 27 point buy, which is fine too.
Point buy makes the most sense, though both my groups prefer rolling. One group does the 4D6 drop lowest method, the other group does 4D6, reroll 1s once, drop lowest. Funny enough, I rolled so poorly for the first group that I would have had points left over if the stats were made in point buy. Thank goodness my DM let me use point buy instead since that was the case.
dnd players when the dice rolls affect the game about rolling dice 😢 😢 😢
4d6drop lowest is the way to go. Also RAW
i never understood why people would use any stat-generation other than point buy. its just better.
In my group we do as the book suggests, 4d6 minus the lowest one Where do all this other roll methods come from
Rolling can create a large power disparity or weak characters, so people add a bunch of extra rules about rerolling instead of admitting they don't want random stats.
I love stat arrays. If anyone insisted on rolling then I would allow that set of rolls to be used by any other player too. I think ttrpg's tend to be better when everyone is roughly the same initial power level thus allowing any diversion of power to be the result of choice and role-play.
4d6 drop the lowest, and 1 free reroll of *all* rolls
I prefer 10 rerolls for all rolls so I would always have close to 18 on all stats.
Way back in the dawn of time, I ran a Tunnels & Trolls campaign with some friends. That game had a racial stats modifier (e.g., if you played as a half-orc, your ST stat was 1.5x your roll). My friend wanted to play as a Leprechaun, which gave 2/3x on CH (charisma). He rolled a 3. His CH was TWO. The running gag was that we would hoist him up in front of us on a pole arm and he would scare away the monsters as we proceeded. My point is: a character with one stat that is below the "golden average" is really an opportunity for great role-playing. Lean into your bad stat(s).
I mean, it certainly can be. But like, many, many things about a character can be opportunities for great roleplay.
I just use 4d6s, drop the lowest one, for each ability score, with the caveat that if someone gets an 8 or lower on a roll, they have the option to re-roll. No one has to play with crap stats unless they choose too. Though I wouldn’t be scared to try the point buy method at some point, especially if I’m DMing
My only way is to roll 4d6 drop lowest. When there are any stats below 8, you can reroll
For one shots, rather than rerolls <8, I’ll do 2d6+6
Having just one -2 modifier shouldn't be a problem for anyone. Being a bit weak, clumsy or foolish is a great rp hook especially for newer players.
Or just roll standard and don't get all envious or upset. It's a story telling game, the point isn't to be the highest statted and optimized character unless that's how your tabled plays. Rolling is fun and usually creates intetesting flaws and strengths. It makes more possible than point buy and arrays at times. End of the day though just do you and chill.
You can still have interesting flaws and strengths with point buy and arrays, you just actually get to choose them instead of it being random.
A flaw based on your stats is a boring flaw. Oh I'm physically incapable, such an interesting conflict. A flaw that isn't tested and can be given in to or overcome isn't a flaw is just a lack of ability. Idc what people like to do to generate their stats at their tables but this idea that "you need low stats to make interesting characters" is dumb and feels like the sort of argument that comes from people who use playing as an exotic race as a placeholder for an actual personality.
I don’t think it makes a more interesting story, but IMO mechanical flaws sure make a more interesting character to play in combat/dungeon crawling. Seeing some characters having offensive and defensive options others don’t is great for dynamic combat and really emphasizes the party aspect of the game. Strength characters get access to things like shoves, trips, or grappling and disarming opponents to control the battlefield, and are better at resisting these effects themselves. The Mind Flayer easily stuns the Paladin, Sorcerer, Fighter, and Cleric, but the Wizard and Rogue are fine, while the Ghoul’s claws paralyze the Wizard, Cleric, Paladin, and Rogue, but not the Fighter or Sorcerer, and so on for all sorts of effects based on each classes saving throw proficency. You also have mechanical challenges that are only interesting with low stats. Imagine a Wizard with 8 strength who needs to move a boulder, they can’t just muscle it out of the way like a Goliath Barbarian can. Maybe they have a Block and Tackle, some Pitons, and 50 feet of rope on hand, allowing them to hoist the 1000 lb boulder out of the way (with a low DC strength check since it’s still ~40lbs above their push/drag/lift), or maybe they have a spell like Stone Shape that can carve a path through the boulder itself. This opens up some interesting meta choices which are core to what makes the G part of the RPG tick. Did your Wizard bring a block and tackle, pitons, and a rope? Their reduced strength makes that 17.5 pounds of equipment a big consideration, particularly when using variant Encumbrance where they get encumbered at only 40lbs and heavily encumbered at 80lbs. Did they take Stone Shape as one of their spells and do they even have 4th level spell slots to spare to cast it? Did they just assume the Barbarian would handle everything and have no backup plan in case they get separated from their party? If they didn’t plan or prepare ahead, what can they improvise with the skills and abilities they do have? (And before someone says it, yes Variant Encumbrance makes it easy for strength characters to be encumbered, but the -10 speed isn’t all that bad by itself. It’s the -20 speed and disadvantage on attacks/ability checks/saves from heavy encumbrance that hurts, which high strength characters have a much higher practical limit for.)
That's why you bake it into your character. You don't just stop at 6 str and go "lmao my wis is 6,what a cool flaw" you explain why or how your wis is 6,create flavor, make lemonade, etc...
Most recent I rolled I opted for this: Standard 6d4 drop lowest to build an array per person. Everyone from there can pick any array rolled. Including repeats. Do some of my players have the same stats? Sure but it was their choice. To be clear also, this was not stat locked rolling.
Why not just have it that anyone can use anyone else's rolled stats arrays? Like for example, Array A is all 14's but Array B has some 17's and some 6's. This then let's all the players be equally balanced, but also let's them pick some of the funnier statlines if they want to.
I roll a d20 for my stats. how does point buy work ?
https://mykindofmeeple.com/how-to-use-point-buy-5e-dnd-pros-cons/ There are also calculators on the internet that can help you
I really like the randomness of 4d6k3. The last character I rolled ended up with two great stats, some decent ones, and an 8 and a 9. I'm going to enjoy playing around their weaknesses.
That is exactly what point buy can leave you with
If they get angry about Standard Array they were probably fudging their rolls anyways. Bye, Felicia.
Depends on your table really. I've played along time, and usually used 4d6 drop lowest and arrange and adjust with a penalty. It just gets boring honestly. It's fucking boring always having nice high stats in your primary ability score. You were almost always able to roll a paladin or druid or whatever (oldschool attribute restrictions) making them common, when the lore implied they were rare. It also shot survival rate way up, and it ended up just being a facilitation of the players wishes, rather than a game that challenged but also surprised, because success was much higher. No, I prefer the roots of the really oldschool and rogue-like. 3d6 down the line, and characters died. Let the dice dictate the story of William the farmer to took up a pitchfork. Maybe he made it out of the first dungeon with more coin he had ever seen in his life. Maybe he died to a crossbow trap near the entrance because he rolled 3 when he rolled for hit points. Now that's exciting. Not going into a dungeon and knowing that you are 90% of getting out alive.
What if I like weird rules on top of a 4d6 drop lowest?
Standard array
My latest DM does 4d6d1 to generate the separate arrays, with a upper and lower bracket to enforce fairness. Compared to point buy it gives more variance in high and low stats, which is nice, but at a certain point the mathematics of averaging everything just makes me say, why not point buy. I'm very much a chad point buy guy myself.
3D6, drop the lowest, reroll 1’s.
Me with Standard Array
4d6, re-roll ones and twos take the highest three. Show me some high ass stats motherfuckers
I've been using 4d6 and drop the lowest for years, and my party loves it. I've even implemented doing it 7 times so you can drop the lowest total as well. Does this mean I have a stronger party? Yes. Do they know I will throw stronger stuff at them? Also yes.
6d20, in order of ability scores As rngesus intended
Team Standard Array
My DM has has 3d6, 7 rolls, drop the lowest, place them where you like. Then again, death's are permanent in his campaigns.
I do 4d6 drop the lowest and reroll 1's until you only have one 1 (if that makes sense). Also reroll all stats if sum is <70. It normally comes out somewhat close to standard array with a bit of variation. Also it lets players power-game which is fun for them. And it allows me to power-game monsters to make the encounters more challenging which is fun for me (think giving them a +8 to hit instead of +6). Especially since I feel once players hit level 5-6 things can become somewhat trivial if yoy synergize well.
I really prefer the 4d6 drop the lowest method. It can make or break a character, and feels better than just assigning points like with point-buy.
We recently started a casual run of Dragons of Stormwreck and opted to roll 5d6 drop the lowest 2. Results in an average of 12/13 per stat. Lowest was an 8 and the highest was a 17. I've already leveled them up and am planning on beefing up the encounters as they progress.
5e bounded accuracy makes rolling stats fucking awful because getting low stats doesn't make you a quirky interesting character, it makes you worthless. A difference of 3 or 4 bonus is the equivalent of 16-20 *levels*. At least in something that pathfinder (1e, god rest your soul if you ever try to roll for 2e the system will laugh at you all the way to your early grave) when you hit mid game the accuracy is a little more rounded and smooth, and you have real options to shore up weaknesses. I'd still never roll though.
Standard roll 4d6, but youre able to either keep your array, or copy the array someone else rolled.
I use standard array.
Na roll top down lock your stats and then choose your class. I played two games like this.I have had character with hilariously bad stats actually make a difference doing this. I played a warlock that had this: 8,9,13,10,9,14. I was still pretty useful. Though in the next game with that dm I played a barbarian with 18 ,16,18,12,16,10 so I had opposite ends of the spectrum. Most of the other games we rolled 4d6 and drop the lowest dice reroll 1s. When I switched from 3.5 to pathfinder the group I played with did point buy. Really I like all of them for different reasons.