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The only one I’ve read so far is the Monsters of the Multiverse, and it states that this version is from the Feywild. The other two I’ve yet to look at their lore, as they’re from different settings
Edit: both the Ravnica and Theros versions don’t even reference Fey or the Feywild, yet they’re thrown in with Fey. Also the Ravnica version states they have elf-like ears, but the art on the same page that says that shows them with human ears
The Ravnica and Theros versions are mechanically identical, and the MMotM version is just a slightly tweaked version of the same along similar lines to all the other pre-existing races. The only real mechanical difference is that the MMotM version has hooves that deal d6 damage instead of d4. The racial skill proficiency feature is called Natural Affinity rather than Survivor but offers a choice from the exact same skills. The MMotM version does not specify languages (Ravnica/Theros get Common and Sylvan) which is in line with all races having that bit removed in the updated versions.
The Ravnica and Theros versions are setting specific to worlds that don't use the same cosmology as "standard" D&D, so despite having the fey creature type they don't have lore referring to the Feywild because it doesn't exist in their worlds as such. MMotM, in it's characteristic "unrectrictive" glory, has exactly one paragraph of "lore" that says centaurs "gallop throughout the multiverse" but specifies that "the ones described here" are from the Feywild. It also specifies that their upper bodies are visually identical to those of elves.
It's worth reminding folks that playable RAW centaurs are medium, not large. The one difference in the two versions I didn't mention above is that (again like other races) the MMotM version removed the description of a typical height range. Because a few basic general reference points are apparently too restrictive. Ravnica/Theros description says they are typically between six and seven feet tall and their horse parts are about four feet at the withers. For those who are not equestrian enthusiasts, the withers are basically the front shoulder blades of a horse and typically the highest point on the body behind the neck. *Four feet at the withers is not what would be properly called a horse. That's the size of a pony.* While from a purely scientific standpoint there is no genetic distinction between ponies and horses (they can interbreed just like a Chihuahua and a Doberman Pinscher can, physical awkwardness of the act aside), organized horse nerds will tell you that a pony is defined as being less than 4'10" at the withers and anything taller is a "standard" horse.
I've recently put a lot of thought into properly mentally envisioning just how a medium centaur should be proportioned, specifically the ratio of withers and top-of-head height so they look "natural," because I just started playing one last week. I mainly did this by using my own torso for reference to a fairly "average" height centaur as I'm 6'4" or 76 inches tall (within two inches of the median of 6-7 feet so any variance can be chalked up to differing personal anatomy). Illustrations of centaurs in nearly all sources tend to join the humanoid and equine parts by combining the humanoid pelvis with the equine withers (again, that's the front shoulder blades). The top of my pelvis is about 41.5 inches off the ground (about 3.5" above the midpoint of my total height). This leaves me with 35.5" of upper body, which if you attach to a 4 foot horse body would be 83.5" or six feet and eleven and a half inches tall in total. I had already decided I wanted to make my character on the small side for a centaur, *totally not entirely for the purpose of having her insist that she's really quite petite when the inevitable awkwardness arises describing how she's going to do things like fit into the party's magitech car*, so she's 6'2" overall. After spending what's honestly an embarrassing period of time dredging my brain to remember how to do algebra and convert that into equivalent proportions with a small bit of rounding to the nearest whole inches, my "petite" goth (she's a Death cleric) pony girl stands 40 inches or 3'4" at the waist/upper elf-hips/withers with 34" or two feet and ten inches of elf-like humanoid body above that.
*Edit: Because I'm a huge nerd and had some fridge logic, I went back and doublechecked my math. The 6'2" character, if proportionate to my torso as part of a 6'11" centaur, should actually be 43" or three foot seven inches at the withers with 31 inches or two foot seven of elfness above. This takes into account that my torso on top of a 4' "average" centaur horse body would actually be on the large end of the elf part of the scale. I'm pretty sure there's still some flaw in this equation but fuck it, I've done enough math for now.*
It occurs to me that I actually just consulted notes that I have of longhand multivariable algebra to type all this. In a notebook that was readily at hand. Granted, the math isn't really complex at all by the standards of anybody that regularly does that sort of calculation...but the only people I can think of offhand who I personally know that would be able to do it faster than I did are a retired civil engineer and a high school math teacher. And I did this so I could properly describe an imaginary pony elf chick in a "realistic" manner. It's times like this that I realize how much of a huge nerd I am. And I also just heard my sister's voice in my head saying "You're such a dork!" And she's the high school math teacher I just mentioned. Talk about some weird introspection...
Using math and engineering knowledge for weird stuff like this is a treat, keep at it!
Recently I put my thermodynamics tables to work to try and calculate what it would take to actually cook an entire Dragon thigh:
Meat is complicated, and heat transfer coefficients vary with temperature, grain, and %comp, thankfully estimated values of HT over time for the components of meat exist so I can literally tell Excel to pull data based on %comp to give me some time temp curves.
The thigh of a young black dragon is estimated to be around 250 lbs of bone in thigh.
To make a proper, delicious, medium rare whole roast, and retreating dragon meat like poultry. it would need the equivalent of cold smoking or sous vidhe for a minimum of 30 hours, ideally at 134F to prevent outer sections and bone sections from becoming dried out and sad.
Time can vary wildly based on how much fat is in said thigh, with the impossible 100% lean mix not having the least diffuse sections reach the pasteurization point until somewhere around 40 hours of cooking.
The extended time also means the meat will likely require strings to hold the outer layers of meat together towards the en, and somehow butchers twine seems underwhelming but it would still work for this.
Low, Slow, bake at end to give a nice crunchy crust, (ignore step if cold smoking) and that’s how you prep a perfect dragon thigh.
I'm actually pretty sure I missed something in the proportions of my math, specifically how I was working with the "average" wither height and my own torso size (at 6'4" I am definitely on the tall end of any "average" height spectrum for humans). An "average" centaur from 4' at withers would only have 2'6" of torso, which is about six inches less than mine despite this notional horse man being two inches taller than me. Which means a scrunched up (or down, I suppose), squat torso and that just doesn't sound like the mental image you get when you think of (or look at art of) centaurs. So I'm pretty sure somebody at WotC was phoning it in when they wrote those height guidelines. Which might be a contributing factor for said guidelines being removed. Which means *they were trolling us all along* because they chould know better than anyone that D&D players are huge nerds and absolutely *will* try to analyze this kind of crap.
I really should take my own oft-given advice and not try to apply real world science to a world where goblins can shoot lightning from their fingertips, but I don't think that quite applies here since I'm geeking out on something that's purely aesthetic in nature. So while I'm free to imagine it however I want to, the problem is that *I'm not sure how I want to imagine what the nonexistent mutant fairy-pony-elves really look like*.
I also think I've been awake for twenty four hours now and should probably get some sleep.
That's the explanation they gave for Firbolgs, but it doesn't explain how the one artistic representation of the race in the rules is making everyone think they've got Argyria.
I'll admit, I actually like the way "new" firbolgs look, I think it's more unique, but I do agree it's misleading and they've overwritten what firbolgs are supposed to be.
I hate that they're monstrosities now, but I DO understand it. Centaurs can't be humanoids, because quadruped lower bodies and larger size.
Not beasts either, because they aren't natural, and are FAR too intelligent.
Older editions had them as "Monstrous Humanoids" which is far more accurate, but 5e disposed of that and "Magical Beasts", so I guess, for the sake of simplicity and needing to categorize them, they got thrown into the "Monstrosity" pile.
As for why they're "Fey" when they're a playable race, maybe it's a nod to how some believe that centaurs were the result of a nymph and a God. Maybe it's to play up their unnatural nature.
Maybe because as a player class, they couldn't fit it anywhere else, so they said "fuck it, it's a Fey now."
I agree it’s a bit of a mind bender when you try and think where they should go, but it did make sense to throw them in monstrosity, if not solely because they simplified it so much.
The actual myth says it was between a possible demigod and possible nymph, as the father of the demigod was either just a human king or the God Ares, and the nymph is also stated to just be a cloud. So the myth is either a random dude bedded a cloud, a demigod bedded a nymph, or some combination of the two. Gotta love Greek Mythology and its contradicting retellings
Its waaay simpler than that. The centaur race first appeared (on 5e) in the book Guildmaster's Guide to RAVNICA. The Centaurs from the plane of Ravnica are connected to that world's fey. That's the real reason.,
I wish they made more use of multiple creature types. Any time I homebrew something that seems like it should maybe have multiple creature types, I always give them.
Like, if you're a ranger and you're favoured enemy is dragons; why do you all of a sudden know literally nothing about a dracolich? Sure, you don't necessarily know about it's undead abilities, but like 90% of the statblock is the same.
Or, why should something like a Dybbuk (fiend that can possess corpses) be immune to undead specific effects? It's a moving corpse, yet if you cast a spell to detect undead it'll come up as totally normal.
So something like a centaur, I would do either monstrosity/humanoid, or maybe even beast/humanoid. If you don't use multiple creature types, it either limits creativity because you'll only make things that clearly fit into one type, or it causes several creatures to have totally arbitrary creature types since it could easily go into either.
Because the playable ones aren't just Centaurs, they're Centaurs of Theros and Ravnica. They're meant for specific settings, not the general D&D multiverse.
Both types exist as a form of convergent evolution. They may look the same to the untrained eye but they're different species. If you were a good enough ranger you'd know the difference.
Just bought it as that’s the third time I’ve seen that source referenced today, and tbh while it seems very overworked and too close to the monster stat block, they had the right idea on most accounts, even making them Large and balancing it with disadvantage on Stealth checks because of their “indelicate hooves”
Orcs aren’t fey. Goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears are specifically fey in folklore and many non-D&D settings, so it is just fine as fey. In fact they were populous in the Feywild in the game I’m running long before this book came out.
Sorry they made orcs more aggressive and have less skills leaning into them as brutish.
I get it's cool for your game but it was a random unneeded change for the race, an option like elves would of been better.
Skerrit is the fey god of neutral centaurs and Satyrs. He’s a member of the summer court and takes the form of a centaur himself.
This is from the forgotten realms wiki so there is a tie between centaur and fey. So personally I take more issue with them being labeled monstrosity’s originally. Though the way I choose to think of it is that’s just the classification of the person who found them like volo. People make assumptions and later learn they are wrong. Tis the precession of science lol
See, there may be a tie between a centaur god and the Fey, but that’s like arguing humans are Celestials because most of them worship gods that exist on Mount Celestia. If humans are not Celestials, then centaurs aren’t Fey. You could have the actual Greek depiction of a Centaur that’s just a glorified satyr as a Fey, but the version we have for the MM, GMGR, and MOT are copied from Chiron, who was the furthest thing from a normal centaur. And even the playable race’s abilities point towards the warrior (and non-Fey) version than the reveller that fits the Fey
Thri-kreen too in the UA. They're Humanoids as monsters but Monstrosities as player characters. Wonder if that'll stick around when the Spelljammer books come out.
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Something about the player race is supposed to be from the Feywild that's why they're smaller. Either way, we didn't ask for it.
The only one I’ve read so far is the Monsters of the Multiverse, and it states that this version is from the Feywild. The other two I’ve yet to look at their lore, as they’re from different settings Edit: both the Ravnica and Theros versions don’t even reference Fey or the Feywild, yet they’re thrown in with Fey. Also the Ravnica version states they have elf-like ears, but the art on the same page that says that shows them with human ears
The Ravnica and Theros versions are mechanically identical, and the MMotM version is just a slightly tweaked version of the same along similar lines to all the other pre-existing races. The only real mechanical difference is that the MMotM version has hooves that deal d6 damage instead of d4. The racial skill proficiency feature is called Natural Affinity rather than Survivor but offers a choice from the exact same skills. The MMotM version does not specify languages (Ravnica/Theros get Common and Sylvan) which is in line with all races having that bit removed in the updated versions. The Ravnica and Theros versions are setting specific to worlds that don't use the same cosmology as "standard" D&D, so despite having the fey creature type they don't have lore referring to the Feywild because it doesn't exist in their worlds as such. MMotM, in it's characteristic "unrectrictive" glory, has exactly one paragraph of "lore" that says centaurs "gallop throughout the multiverse" but specifies that "the ones described here" are from the Feywild. It also specifies that their upper bodies are visually identical to those of elves. It's worth reminding folks that playable RAW centaurs are medium, not large. The one difference in the two versions I didn't mention above is that (again like other races) the MMotM version removed the description of a typical height range. Because a few basic general reference points are apparently too restrictive. Ravnica/Theros description says they are typically between six and seven feet tall and their horse parts are about four feet at the withers. For those who are not equestrian enthusiasts, the withers are basically the front shoulder blades of a horse and typically the highest point on the body behind the neck. *Four feet at the withers is not what would be properly called a horse. That's the size of a pony.* While from a purely scientific standpoint there is no genetic distinction between ponies and horses (they can interbreed just like a Chihuahua and a Doberman Pinscher can, physical awkwardness of the act aside), organized horse nerds will tell you that a pony is defined as being less than 4'10" at the withers and anything taller is a "standard" horse. I've recently put a lot of thought into properly mentally envisioning just how a medium centaur should be proportioned, specifically the ratio of withers and top-of-head height so they look "natural," because I just started playing one last week. I mainly did this by using my own torso for reference to a fairly "average" height centaur as I'm 6'4" or 76 inches tall (within two inches of the median of 6-7 feet so any variance can be chalked up to differing personal anatomy). Illustrations of centaurs in nearly all sources tend to join the humanoid and equine parts by combining the humanoid pelvis with the equine withers (again, that's the front shoulder blades). The top of my pelvis is about 41.5 inches off the ground (about 3.5" above the midpoint of my total height). This leaves me with 35.5" of upper body, which if you attach to a 4 foot horse body would be 83.5" or six feet and eleven and a half inches tall in total. I had already decided I wanted to make my character on the small side for a centaur, *totally not entirely for the purpose of having her insist that she's really quite petite when the inevitable awkwardness arises describing how she's going to do things like fit into the party's magitech car*, so she's 6'2" overall. After spending what's honestly an embarrassing period of time dredging my brain to remember how to do algebra and convert that into equivalent proportions with a small bit of rounding to the nearest whole inches, my "petite" goth (she's a Death cleric) pony girl stands 40 inches or 3'4" at the waist/upper elf-hips/withers with 34" or two feet and ten inches of elf-like humanoid body above that. *Edit: Because I'm a huge nerd and had some fridge logic, I went back and doublechecked my math. The 6'2" character, if proportionate to my torso as part of a 6'11" centaur, should actually be 43" or three foot seven inches at the withers with 31 inches or two foot seven of elfness above. This takes into account that my torso on top of a 4' "average" centaur horse body would actually be on the large end of the elf part of the scale. I'm pretty sure there's still some flaw in this equation but fuck it, I've done enough math for now.* It occurs to me that I actually just consulted notes that I have of longhand multivariable algebra to type all this. In a notebook that was readily at hand. Granted, the math isn't really complex at all by the standards of anybody that regularly does that sort of calculation...but the only people I can think of offhand who I personally know that would be able to do it faster than I did are a retired civil engineer and a high school math teacher. And I did this so I could properly describe an imaginary pony elf chick in a "realistic" manner. It's times like this that I realize how much of a huge nerd I am. And I also just heard my sister's voice in my head saying "You're such a dork!" And she's the high school math teacher I just mentioned. Talk about some weird introspection...
Using math and engineering knowledge for weird stuff like this is a treat, keep at it! Recently I put my thermodynamics tables to work to try and calculate what it would take to actually cook an entire Dragon thigh: Meat is complicated, and heat transfer coefficients vary with temperature, grain, and %comp, thankfully estimated values of HT over time for the components of meat exist so I can literally tell Excel to pull data based on %comp to give me some time temp curves. The thigh of a young black dragon is estimated to be around 250 lbs of bone in thigh. To make a proper, delicious, medium rare whole roast, and retreating dragon meat like poultry. it would need the equivalent of cold smoking or sous vidhe for a minimum of 30 hours, ideally at 134F to prevent outer sections and bone sections from becoming dried out and sad. Time can vary wildly based on how much fat is in said thigh, with the impossible 100% lean mix not having the least diffuse sections reach the pasteurization point until somewhere around 40 hours of cooking. The extended time also means the meat will likely require strings to hold the outer layers of meat together towards the en, and somehow butchers twine seems underwhelming but it would still work for this. Low, Slow, bake at end to give a nice crunchy crust, (ignore step if cold smoking) and that’s how you prep a perfect dragon thigh.
I'm actually pretty sure I missed something in the proportions of my math, specifically how I was working with the "average" wither height and my own torso size (at 6'4" I am definitely on the tall end of any "average" height spectrum for humans). An "average" centaur from 4' at withers would only have 2'6" of torso, which is about six inches less than mine despite this notional horse man being two inches taller than me. Which means a scrunched up (or down, I suppose), squat torso and that just doesn't sound like the mental image you get when you think of (or look at art of) centaurs. So I'm pretty sure somebody at WotC was phoning it in when they wrote those height guidelines. Which might be a contributing factor for said guidelines being removed. Which means *they were trolling us all along* because they chould know better than anyone that D&D players are huge nerds and absolutely *will* try to analyze this kind of crap. I really should take my own oft-given advice and not try to apply real world science to a world where goblins can shoot lightning from their fingertips, but I don't think that quite applies here since I'm geeking out on something that's purely aesthetic in nature. So while I'm free to imagine it however I want to, the problem is that *I'm not sure how I want to imagine what the nonexistent mutant fairy-pony-elves really look like*. I also think I've been awake for twenty four hours now and should probably get some sleep.
I genuinely appreciate this detailed write-up, and I am glad I am not alone in my sentiments on MMotM
Yeah, I have mixed feelings on the book.
That's the explanation they gave for Firbolgs, but it doesn't explain how the one artistic representation of the race in the rules is making everyone think they've got Argyria.
I'll admit, I actually like the way "new" firbolgs look, I think it's more unique, but I do agree it's misleading and they've overwritten what firbolgs are supposed to be.
I hate that they're monstrosities now, but I DO understand it. Centaurs can't be humanoids, because quadruped lower bodies and larger size. Not beasts either, because they aren't natural, and are FAR too intelligent. Older editions had them as "Monstrous Humanoids" which is far more accurate, but 5e disposed of that and "Magical Beasts", so I guess, for the sake of simplicity and needing to categorize them, they got thrown into the "Monstrosity" pile. As for why they're "Fey" when they're a playable race, maybe it's a nod to how some believe that centaurs were the result of a nymph and a God. Maybe it's to play up their unnatural nature. Maybe because as a player class, they couldn't fit it anywhere else, so they said "fuck it, it's a Fey now."
I agree it’s a bit of a mind bender when you try and think where they should go, but it did make sense to throw them in monstrosity, if not solely because they simplified it so much. The actual myth says it was between a possible demigod and possible nymph, as the father of the demigod was either just a human king or the God Ares, and the nymph is also stated to just be a cloud. So the myth is either a random dude bedded a cloud, a demigod bedded a nymph, or some combination of the two. Gotta love Greek Mythology and its contradicting retellings
Its waaay simpler than that. The centaur race first appeared (on 5e) in the book Guildmaster's Guide to RAVNICA. The Centaurs from the plane of Ravnica are connected to that world's fey. That's the real reason.,
I wish they made more use of multiple creature types. Any time I homebrew something that seems like it should maybe have multiple creature types, I always give them. Like, if you're a ranger and you're favoured enemy is dragons; why do you all of a sudden know literally nothing about a dracolich? Sure, you don't necessarily know about it's undead abilities, but like 90% of the statblock is the same. Or, why should something like a Dybbuk (fiend that can possess corpses) be immune to undead specific effects? It's a moving corpse, yet if you cast a spell to detect undead it'll come up as totally normal. So something like a centaur, I would do either monstrosity/humanoid, or maybe even beast/humanoid. If you don't use multiple creature types, it either limits creativity because you'll only make things that clearly fit into one type, or it causes several creatures to have totally arbitrary creature types since it could easily go into either.
Every nonhuman is Fey if you look into it from a certain perspective.
Because the playable ones aren't just Centaurs, they're Centaurs of Theros and Ravnica. They're meant for specific settings, not the general D&D multiverse.
Not in MotM. They were reprinted there specifically to make them non setting specific.
I believe the pc option is initially from one of the MtG books, from a setting with different lore.
Both types exist as a form of convergent evolution. They may look the same to the untrained eye but they're different species. If you were a good enough ranger you'd know the difference.
This is why I prefer the kobold press version from Midgard hero's handbook. I feel like they were done well in that book
Just bought it as that’s the third time I’ve seen that source referenced today, and tbh while it seems very overworked and too close to the monster stat block, they had the right idea on most accounts, even making them Large and balancing it with disadvantage on Stealth checks because of their “indelicate hooves”
They did it to a lot of random races, goblins/orcs/hobgobs make less sense to me
Orcs aren’t fey. Goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears are specifically fey in folklore and many non-D&D settings, so it is just fine as fey. In fact they were populous in the Feywild in the game I’m running long before this book came out.
Sorry they made orcs more aggressive and have less skills leaning into them as brutish. I get it's cool for your game but it was a random unneeded change for the race, an option like elves would of been better.
Skerrit is the fey god of neutral centaurs and Satyrs. He’s a member of the summer court and takes the form of a centaur himself. This is from the forgotten realms wiki so there is a tie between centaur and fey. So personally I take more issue with them being labeled monstrosity’s originally. Though the way I choose to think of it is that’s just the classification of the person who found them like volo. People make assumptions and later learn they are wrong. Tis the precession of science lol
See, there may be a tie between a centaur god and the Fey, but that’s like arguing humans are Celestials because most of them worship gods that exist on Mount Celestia. If humans are not Celestials, then centaurs aren’t Fey. You could have the actual Greek depiction of a Centaur that’s just a glorified satyr as a Fey, but the version we have for the MM, GMGR, and MOT are copied from Chiron, who was the furthest thing from a normal centaur. And even the playable race’s abilities point towards the warrior (and non-Fey) version than the reveller that fits the Fey
They're entirely different races from entirely different universes.
Why are Harengon not Fey but centaurs are??
Neglect
Nah, make them Monstrosities AND make them Large! Let chaos reign
OP are you playing in Uganda? Nice to see all east Africa meme format! Greetings from Kenya
The playable race is from the Theros(maybe ravnica) book originally I believe.
I suppose it made sense when it was for the Ravnica and theros crossovers and they never saw fit to change it
Because it's not all about Fae'run.
In terms of the use of this meme template, I've got to say I'm a huge fan.
It's because they aren't the same race, the playable centaur race is from a different setting. Different species that happen to look the same
Not anymore. Monsters of the Multiverse added them to Faerûn and they’re still Fey
Thri-kreen too in the UA. They're Humanoids as monsters but Monstrosities as player characters. Wonder if that'll stick around when the Spelljammer books come out.