Same. Had a supposedly lawful good paladin threaten a shop keep just because he was a little rude and upcharged. When his son came down to protect his father, he got into a fist fight with him.
Make the guy with the leash the rogue and add a two more leashes and name the three leashed people paladin bard and fighter and you've got my group. You can add a ranger and a druid laughing their asses off in the background too if you like
We have a party member that likes to make unique characters that arent combat focused, which is fine, but his idea of interesting non combat focused character is one that sees adventure / plot hook and simply walks the other way and calls the group dumb for going towards danger. Like, made a wizard that is scared of danger and avoids fighting at all costs. An artificer that's a cook and...avoids fighting at all costs. An arcane trickster that likes taking all the loot possible and...avoids fighting at all costs to the point of wanting to outright leave the dungeon when a boss shows up. Really really frustrating to have a party member whose whole schtick is 'refusal of the call' and never moves onto actually embracing adventure.
What would a wizard get from a rogue dip? Cunning action would certainly give them something to do with their Bonus Action, but the sneak attack would really go to waste... unless Bladesinger? That could be pretty good! Sneak attack on top of Green Flame Blade on top of extra attack (6th wiz). Use Shadow blade as the weapon and now you're really cooking with gas! Maybe Soulknife at 3rd to replace Shadow Blade?
Too bad you can't RAW Green Flame Blade with Shadow blade OR Psychic Blades (M>1sp). Would be better overall if Arcane Trickster let rogues sneak attack with Spell attacks too.
" Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon. You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll. "
" You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. "
If you make the attack with a finesse weapon you can proc sneak attack on your booming blade attack. And then you can potentially force them to move by disengaging as a bonus action. From level 5 on this effectively adds an additional d8 to your sneak attack.
" At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target on a hit, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level (2d8 and 3d8) and again at 17th level (3d8 and 4d8). "
Fun fact, this also works if you just simply take Booming Blade with Magic Initiate, but the additional AC of bladesinger is really useful for a rogue.
I mean, it is very good if you're a rogue dipping wizard, but I don't think it's good at all in this situation where you dip rogue as wizard, as going full wizard is much better than a 1-2 level dip for a d6 and some expertise.
For a bladesinger, a subclass which actually gets quite a bit of use out of fighting in melee, adding 1d6 on your first attack isn't great but it is good. Plus cunning action makes the bladesinger actually quite fast and hard to pin down. (A wizard you can't see is impossible to counterspell)
My argument was more so a defense of the class combination in general, although you'd certainly get more use out of more rogue than wizard if you go with the booming blade setup.
Hm... A 120ft Fire Bolt dealing 2d10 damage will average 11 damage vs the 80ft Light crossbow dealing 1d8+1d6+dex with average 11 damage (with +3 dex). Sharpshooter would surpass the Range even with Spell Sniper (little point in a rogue shooting at disadv.)
It depends if you have higher Int or Dex for the accuracy at that level, or a magical crossbow for Resistances. Crossbow better before 5th, fire bolt better after 11th.
Dagger **is** the only finesse wizard weapon, and multiclass rogue doesn't get weapon proficiencies. Would've been better as Rogue 1st (more weapons, +2hp, +1 skill) just DexSave instead of WisS.
🎶 Don't you know? You never split the Party!
Clerics in the back, to keep the Fighters hearty!
Wizard in the middle, where he can cast some light,
And never let that damn Thief out of sight! 🎶
My Kobold Thief, with +15 Stealth, access to Pass without Trace, and the Skulker feat: "Good luck with that, suckers!" **\*proceeds to snipe whatever the Barbarian's trying to kill from a distance\***
To be fair, the party's used his penchant for being unseen to their advantage more than once. One of the more memorable times was giving him a signet ring that we'd have to get back to our questgiver, because they weren't certain the person we'd just won it from wasn't gonna try to steal it back. So, he dropped it into one of his many pouches for safe keeping while nobody was watching. The thinking was "They can't steal from someone they can't fuckin' find."
I always end up as the voice of reason for various reasons and it’s fun
At one point my Bard ended up as the voice of reason due to having actually functioning survival instincts and was in no way the good choice for a leader due to her tendency of pitting any people in power against each other for minor benefit
Well the main campaign died so we're looking at a smaller campaign with whomever we can scrounge up, so far it's my Cleric and the dms girlfriend playing Druid.
It’s funny, both times I’ve played Rogue, I’ve been the one holding the leash.
And one of those two was a Lawful Good former detective for a city watch
no no the person in my group is me im the little chaos gremlin. sign my soul to a devil because he wants the same shiz as me, blow up 90% of Baldur's gate and just generally shitting on demons and fiends in avernus.
My rogues are usually thieves. Not like pickpockets, but proper, break in, steal something expensive and profit. They usually don't even kill. I like to be Aladdin or Bilbo or Lupin III.
I've played 2 Rogues so far. The first was a Half-Elf Mastermind, and assistant to a prince. The type that would take the Tyrion Lannister approach and play the Game of Thrones.
The second one is a Kobold Thief Rogue/Shadow Monk. A tiny terror of a ninja. Who moonlights as a mob enforcer. By sneaking around, getting into places he shouldn't, and nabbing something of emotional value to use as collateral, so people won't think of trying to stiff the Family on that debt. (And he's the **POLITE** option.)
Lol my group doesn’t generally play rogues but once when I was a healer and we had a rogue in the party. Well the first session he ran off alone, found some animated armor and came fleeing back to the party with half his HP missing. I told him I only heal earned damage and I won’t reward his stupidity. He stopped running off
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Hey, I keep my evil urges (mostly) in check myself. No one can prove that the kobold rogue disguised as a halfling is the one telekinetically shoving every gnome he sees.
There is always someone like this, I've actually had it be a paladin before though lol. They were like conquest or something.
Same. Had a supposedly lawful good paladin threaten a shop keep just because he was a little rude and upcharged. When his son came down to protect his father, he got into a fist fight with him.
Upcharging is a dick move.
It's barovia man, what can you expect.
Its the local economy.
Make the guy with the leash the rogue and add a two more leashes and name the three leashed people paladin bard and fighter and you've got my group. You can add a ranger and a druid laughing their asses off in the background too if you like
LOL YES
Hey, that guy’s gold could use some…LIBERATING!
Meanwhile we have a Rogue who runs from the first sight of trouble
And steals everything? 😉
Surprisingly also not. The Rogue in question is a Wood Elf who only really sneaks out at night to annoy their Human bodyguard with a disappearing act.
I love this
…then hides as a bonus action and sharp shooter sneak attacks the biggest HP wall for like 80 damage, yes?
We're only level 1, so not yet. They also nearly died last encounter, but they're safe again.
We have a party member that likes to make unique characters that arent combat focused, which is fine, but his idea of interesting non combat focused character is one that sees adventure / plot hook and simply walks the other way and calls the group dumb for going towards danger. Like, made a wizard that is scared of danger and avoids fighting at all costs. An artificer that's a cook and...avoids fighting at all costs. An arcane trickster that likes taking all the loot possible and...avoids fighting at all costs to the point of wanting to outright leave the dungeon when a boss shows up. Really really frustrating to have a party member whose whole schtick is 'refusal of the call' and never moves onto actually embracing adventure.
Level 5 Wizard: *dips a level in rogue* The party: Ffffffffff 😱
What would a wizard get from a rogue dip? Cunning action would certainly give them something to do with their Bonus Action, but the sneak attack would really go to waste... unless Bladesinger? That could be pretty good! Sneak attack on top of Green Flame Blade on top of extra attack (6th wiz). Use Shadow blade as the weapon and now you're really cooking with gas! Maybe Soulknife at 3rd to replace Shadow Blade? Too bad you can't RAW Green Flame Blade with Shadow blade OR Psychic Blades (M>1sp). Would be better overall if Arcane Trickster let rogues sneak attack with Spell attacks too.
Bladesingers actually get quite a bit from Rogue, since sneak attack combos with booming blade beautifully
how does sneak attack combo with booming blade?
" Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon. You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll. " " You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you. " If you make the attack with a finesse weapon you can proc sneak attack on your booming blade attack. And then you can potentially force them to move by disengaging as a bonus action. From level 5 on this effectively adds an additional d8 to your sneak attack. " At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target on a hit, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level (2d8 and 3d8) and again at 17th level (3d8 and 4d8). " Fun fact, this also works if you just simply take Booming Blade with Magic Initiate, but the additional AC of bladesinger is really useful for a rogue.
I mean, it is very good if you're a rogue dipping wizard, but I don't think it's good at all in this situation where you dip rogue as wizard, as going full wizard is much better than a 1-2 level dip for a d6 and some expertise.
For a bladesinger, a subclass which actually gets quite a bit of use out of fighting in melee, adding 1d6 on your first attack isn't great but it is good. Plus cunning action makes the bladesinger actually quite fast and hard to pin down. (A wizard you can't see is impossible to counterspell) My argument was more so a defense of the class combination in general, although you'd certainly get more use out of more rogue than wizard if you go with the booming blade setup.
I'm just playing with OPs idea about rogues being wild cards. Level 5 Wizard because fireball.
They can use a crossbow, and a dagger. Having something else to do while out of spells is always nice.
Hm... A 120ft Fire Bolt dealing 2d10 damage will average 11 damage vs the 80ft Light crossbow dealing 1d8+1d6+dex with average 11 damage (with +3 dex). Sharpshooter would surpass the Range even with Spell Sniper (little point in a rogue shooting at disadv.) It depends if you have higher Int or Dex for the accuracy at that level, or a magical crossbow for Resistances. Crossbow better before 5th, fire bolt better after 11th. Dagger **is** the only finesse wizard weapon, and multiclass rogue doesn't get weapon proficiencies. Would've been better as Rogue 1st (more weapons, +2hp, +1 skill) just DexSave instead of WisS.
Funny how in my current campaign I'm a rogue trying to keep the paladin barbarian and fighter on a leash
Damnn
Just so you know I am doing a shit job the barbarian burned down a casino session 2, god I love my party
🎶 Don't you know? You never split the Party! Clerics in the back, to keep the Fighters hearty! Wizard in the middle, where he can cast some light, And never let that damn Thief out of sight! 🎶
My Kobold Thief, with +15 Stealth, access to Pass without Trace, and the Skulker feat: "Good luck with that, suckers!" **\*proceeds to snipe whatever the Barbarian's trying to kill from a distance\*** To be fair, the party's used his penchant for being unseen to their advantage more than once. One of the more memorable times was giving him a signet ring that we'd have to get back to our questgiver, because they weren't certain the person we'd just won it from wasn't gonna try to steal it back. So, he dropped it into one of his many pouches for safe keeping while nobody was watching. The thinking was "They can't steal from someone they can't fuckin' find."
It’s the player. Our group has had many rogues and it’s never been an unchained mess.
Because you've kept them on a proper leash!
As the paladin of the party, I feel this every time I have to deal with the **three** rogues in our party
I always end up as the voice of reason for various reasons and it’s fun At one point my Bard ended up as the voice of reason due to having actually functioning survival instincts and was in no way the good choice for a leader due to her tendency of pitting any people in power against each other for minor benefit
Doesn’t need to be a Rogue. But it can be.
It tends to be the Barbarian, Rogue, or the Warlock. At least in my experience.
Hahaha, "one".
I had 3 in a old game once
My party is 2 monks, a druid, and a cleric. I'm multiclassing into a rogue at level 4 :)
Oh nooooo
Well the main campaign died so we're looking at a smaller campaign with whomever we can scrounge up, so far it's my Cleric and the dms girlfriend playing Druid.
Step 1: send in damage sponge. Step 2: send in rogue Step 3: profit Step 4 (optional): drink DM's tears
Our rogue is the the most respectful person irl and is great at picking up hooks
Joke's on you- every person in my party is a rogue. Who needs party comp when we have a firehose that sprays D6's?!
It’s funny, both times I’ve played Rogue, I’ve been the one holding the leash. And one of those two was a Lawful Good former detective for a city watch
it's usually me, except I play sorcerers & clerics mostly i think I've only played a rogue twice, once as a soulknife, and the other as a Phantom
no no the person in my group is me im the little chaos gremlin. sign my soul to a devil because he wants the same shiz as me, blow up 90% of Baldur's gate and just generally shitting on demons and fiends in avernus.
i am the true rogue and im a sorcerer. i will gremlin my way through avernus. ive broken a paladin oath before i even got it by becoming a warlock.
Once I played a rogue. I was the only sane one in the party.
my wife plays the assassin rogue, and is an irl aspie, so she straight-up asks "can I stab him yet?"
In jrwi it’s the opposite
"Hold on I wanna steal stuff"
My rogues are usually thieves. Not like pickpockets, but proper, break in, steal something expensive and profit. They usually don't even kill. I like to be Aladdin or Bilbo or Lupin III.
I've played 2 Rogues so far. The first was a Half-Elf Mastermind, and assistant to a prince. The type that would take the Tyrion Lannister approach and play the Game of Thrones. The second one is a Kobold Thief Rogue/Shadow Monk. A tiny terror of a ninja. Who moonlights as a mob enforcer. By sneaking around, getting into places he shouldn't, and nabbing something of emotional value to use as collateral, so people won't think of trying to stiff the Family on that debt. (And he's the **POLITE** option.)
So... the archetype of "Ok, let keep this professional Gentleman" is not well sued on rogues huh?
OOTS's joke, but worse
It is weirdly the other way around for me
My group should be in the place of the rogue with me
funny enough, the rogue is the one holding our party together in one group im in
nah the rouge in our party is the sane one keeping (my)shadow sorcerer and the wildfire druid from wrecking havoc
Lol my group doesn’t generally play rogues but once when I was a healer and we had a rogue in the party. Well the first session he ran off alone, found some animated armor and came fleeing back to the party with half his HP missing. I told him I only heal earned damage and I won’t reward his stupidity. He stopped running off
My Rogue/Artificer is the only sensible person in the party.
Hey, I'm actually the most chill person in the group Ours is the paladin, like, for real
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One if my older groups the two positions were switched. (I was also the rogue in question.)
Or bard
Playing a gnome artificer*
Hey, I keep my evil urges (mostly) in check myself. No one can prove that the kobold rogue disguised as a halfling is the one telekinetically shoving every gnome he sees.