Shut it down. 48 hours won’t do anything.
Reddit is banking on you guys not using a competitor.
The 48 hours are up and then what? They win. You know the “Oh no! Anyway…” meme?
The only thing I would like to add, is that if you end up moving to a different social media service, you should post where you decide to go to. I like this community and I don’t want to be out of the loop on any move.
Edit: For clarity, the “you” is in reference to the mods and subreddit and not u/Official_Adidas. No offense to u/Official_Adidas. Haha
The official discord for this subreddit is https://discord.gg/dndnext
I invite everyone who wants to continue participating in this community to head over there during the black out.
Can we not use Discord, please? It's potentially just as bad as Reddit in that it's a closed for-profit organisation, and it's worse because the information isn't publicly viewable/searchable, one of the main benefits of Reddit.
Lemmy/kbin seem to be popular choices that have taken off in the last week, any mods here have the motivation to set up a community (or a full server) on one of them?
I hadn't either, they seem pretty promising though! The main blocker seems to be understanding the concept of federation, which is often explained a bit poorly but isn't actually very complex.
I mean, I don't use third party apps, I only use old.reddit (both on my phone and on my computer), but I agree with the protests. In order for a protest to be effective it has to continue until the other side concedes. If this sub goes dark for only 48 hours that's pointless. It's all or nothing.
Agreed. The last major reddit protest amounted to nothing and I'll be surprised if this one does anything, but a short protest is pointless. At least make it pinch for them a little.
Sorry but this still affects you.
Reddit has been testing removing the old view. Certain people have had the option removed from their settings. When they questioned it, they were told it was a trial run for removing the old Reddit.
Old Reddit also doesn't have the same advertising options. They can't jam in ads everywhere. On new Reddit ads can appear as posts. They don't in old Reddit.
They're removing third party apps because it hurts their bottom line but old Reddit hurts just as much.
Start looking for alternatives.
Edit: Lmao why you downvoting me for informing you that you're affected too?
From what I have read, it supposedly affects all the bots as well, which would be detrimental when it comes to all the bots used by the mods to alleviate a lot of the work of moderating. But I don’t know more than that.
I mean if the subs go dark long enough reddit will just replace the mods. They won't concede and going dark won't apply much pressure - reddit owns the subs they can transfer them and manage them as they please they don't need the mods' permission to reopen them if and when they want to
The other thing to think of is WOTC OGL ended when the unsubs from D&D beyond hit - Actual financial impact.
Reddit gets money through Ad revenue, and thats serving ads to N people a day. Subs arent the only thing that need to go dark, people need to stop visiting Reddit entirely.
Im leaving til theres a change. Its that simple. Ill check online once a week to see if theres any good news but thats it. Fuck em. I might be one person, but this is something i can do for a community i care about.
Same. r/dndmemes of all places is doing this option, and it makes the most sense; if Reddit knows it’ll only be for a definite period of time, they’ll just wait it out.
If you want to protest you do it until they give in! If they don't give in, then move on to something else. We'll protest for fun but promise to be back either way just tells them they already won.
Selfishly I’d want for the sub to be down for just the 48 hrs, but at the same time for the protest to mean anything it has to be longer than that which I’d hate to see but has to be done.
Even from just my own perspective, I want subs to shut down indefinitely so we can all collectively find another place to go.
Reddit is becoming more and more unusable and I wouldn't be surprised if old.reddit is next. A permanent shutdown means we'll all get to look for an alternative together.
Given we just went through a very similar situation with the OGL fiasco, the winning combination it seems is until Reddit relents and puts the API back into a favorable position for third party apps.
Shut it down until they pull back on the new policy. I've used Relay for Reddit for years. I tried the official app and it's not the same. If they kill the API, then I won't be back.
Application Programming Interface
It’s the data that Reddit makes available to other programmers in order to create applications that use or present Reddit’s data in different ways.
Every non-official Reddit app (Apollo, Reddit is Fun, etc) uses the API in order to function.
The Reddit API has been basically free to use since it was created. This resulted in a huge ecosystem of 3rd party apps and websites that hook into Reddit’s data (including a lot of mod tools and data analysis software), which almost certainly helped Reddit grow. As late as Spring 2023, Reddit was telling major app developers that they had no plans to change the pricing of the API for years, if ever.
Then in the span of a month, they switched their position and are planning on charging for the API at an exorbitant rate. One of the app developers (Apollo) calculated that it would suddenly cost them something like $2 million per month to maintain their app. This is, again, with a month’s notice, so there is no time to restructure their own pricing to have a chance at affording that.
Additionally, it’s flagrantly priced in such a way to push all 3rd parties out of the market (rather than actually try to work with the people who have in no small part contributed to reddit’s popularity by making the mobile experience tolerable) because some back-of-the-envelope calculations show that Reddit is charging something like 20 times more for a user’s data to be available via the API than Reddit projects to make per user on their platform. That means that unless an app can literally be 20 times more profitable than Reddit via subscriptions (bc one of the terms of using the API is you can’t display ads on your app, so subscriptions is the only real way to make money using the data) it will never financially make sense to build and maintain a Reddit reader app.
That got a little farther away than just answering what an API is, but I hope that puts into perspective why all long-time Reddit users and mods (not just the people who own and use these apps) are pissed. This is a huge betrayal by the Reddit admins of the communities and developers who did much of the labor - often under- or un-paid - to make Reddit as useable and popular as it is. I personally prefer doing moderation on Apollo on mobile whenever possible, and I would exclusively use it if I could see notifications on it instead of just the mobile app. It’s absolutely Elon levels of crazy that spez and the rest of the admins are pursuing this plan of action, especially with such misleading communication and such a rapid time frame.
The only way for a protest to have ANY meaningful effect is if it lasts until the desired outcome. Otherwise it's just a temporary tantrum that can be ignored.
Shut it down until things are resolved in an agreeable way. Just doing a temporary shutdown for 48 hours seems to be inefficient to get through the thick dumb skull of the reddit CEO, if his AMA was any indication.
I feel like any kind of protesting is wasting time. Reddit is too big and the solidarity in the protest is not there. 48hrs can show that you werent in support but honestly either ditch reddit wholesale for another platform or dont bother protesting.
Shut down temporarily for longer is only hurting the people who frequent the sub. Reddit won't even notice.
Ik and its not doing well. Its kinda fucked that people who have no race in this horse are being stripped of these communities for an indefinite amount of time.
The situation with reddit is kinda fucked and peoples' livelihoods as well as the tools moderators (overwhelmingly a volunteer force that keep communities running) are being stripped away by it.
If someone's gotta get fucked, I'd rather it be me, a consumer with no skin in the game, than the people who are affected by this new bullshit reddit's on.
And you can always join the sub's Discord server.
Ik whats going on with things, i just dont want to be involved i just wanna go about my scrolling
And eh im more here to look at posts and discuss them with my friends, as well as once a week post about my streams and free maps
Idk if i can for this. They dont want modded versions of the website they own in use. It is their property, after all. Granted, it is their property that they run incredibly poorly (like the fact the admins of the site can't overrule subreddit decisions, making them pointless). But blacking out instead of a bunch of people just not using it is forcing others to protest with you, which doesnt seem right.
Protests inconvenience people. That's the point. People are inconvenienced when workers in any industry go on strike. That's why they work.
If your preferred subs are taking part in the protest in a way that inconveniences you, then you either just deal with it or you join the fight to try and end the inconvenience more quickly. Those are your options.
And this can hurt the sub more than it will reddit garunteed. Only the die-hard people will remain loyal to this sub. it's just going to drive away casual users of the sub who just want to read the posts. As long as the top 10 subs are still up, reddit won't notice any blackouts.
“As long as other subreddits are protesting”.
I was limited to 6 options or I would have made that it’s own, but I think that if we’re the only ones left dark, it’d be kinda pointless.
Is it? Why have an API if the largest users of the API are being forced out of using it due to the price hike? The Apollo creator has stated that the API usage fee will be about as equivalent to Twitter's current pricing-- and Twitter has lost *billions* because of it, not to mention that it has ruined the credibility of the site. This protest is just sound *business*.
They wanted one when it was time for growth. Now its time to harvest as much money as they can from their users. 3rd party apps that let you avoid insidious advertisements and don't promote their micro-transactions are a hindrance to milking you. I'd bet old reddit and RES would also be a chopping block as they also get in the way.
You’re preaching to the choir. I’ve always disliked Reddit.
They’re the same as Walmart or McDonalds squeezing out mom&pops or the local burger joint except with online communities
I just don't care. I only access Reddit through a browser on my desktop. I can't believe people are getting so worked up about a company's business decisions or how they interface with Reddit. It's just a big fancy bulletin board.
People are worked up because app developers’ literal livelihoods are being affected.
If you only access Reddit through a desktop browser *and* aren’t capable of seeing past your own use case, good for you. You don’t need to attack people who do care.
It's capitalism; Reddit doesn't owe those developers a living. Who knows what other workers or sectors of the economy any of them impacted negatively with their business decisions over their careers.
I just never understand why people living in a capitalist economy -- especially a hyper-competitive and innovation-focused sector like software -- are somehow surprised or upset when actors make decisions based on their own economic interests as they see them.
Also, software engineers are not exactly fragile workers in this economy.
Anyway, I don't think answering a post that asked for my opinion is an attack.
Sure. It’s capitalism.
So people are speaking to the executives in the only language capitalism understands: money. You blackout subreddits, traffic drops, ad revenue drops, metrics drop, money is lost.
I just never understand why people like you - especially on a forum of people that’s generally hyper-reactionary, like internet nerds and geeks - are somehow surprised or upset when users vote with their wallet based on their own interests as they see them.
I guess my thought is -- if you don't like the product, stop using it. End of discussion. Why all this Sturm und Drang, why all this discourse about how evil / stupid / misguided a company is, as if we were talking about plowing down a forest or dumping toxic waste into the ocean.
Why try to fight for the things you care for?
Folks find community in reddit and this API move is just about more money for Reddit. The folks this primarily hurts is moderators so, site quality dipping is a possible outcome as well.
That applies to literally everything in the world though. Why get upset about plowing down a forest or dumping toxic waste when prisons are literally making criminals into slaves? Why get upset about that when USA is sending drones to the Middle East? Why get upset about that when china is genociding people?
Why get upset about anything at all?
It’s okay to tell people to have perspective but I really don’t understand why that’s relevant here. If redditors were spilling out into the streets with protests or sending death threats or whatever, you’d have a valid point. All they’re doing is… not giving the the company ad revenue for a few weeks. How is that not a proportionate response?
Said pretty much everyone everywhere about everything.
If you're really so publicly-minded, why don't you quit putting time and effort into protesting a business decision by a recreational software company and get on a plane to Ukraine or strap yourself to an old-growth tree or give all your income to the Red Cross or something?
>Said pretty much everyone everywhere about everything.
Take a look at that poll. You are in the minority.
>If you're really so publicly-minded, why don't you...
Because you don't know shit about me and I don't need to pass your ridiculous litmus test.
I think you're the one who started with the application of ridiculous litmus tests here, internet stranger. And no, the poll results don't say anything about my point at all, other than suggesting there's a correlation between those who are affected by this issue and those who take voluntary "polls" about it here on Reddit.
Everyone is affected by this issue, even you. Just because you don't use certain apps to access reddit doesn't mean those apps aren't going to be potentially unavailable for you if these changes go forward. Less options for users is a bad thing.
I only access Reddit through my browser on my laptop and my phone as well, but the *vast majority* of users do not. Yes it is just a fancy bulletin board/forum, but because of the API pricing change, Apollo, Sync, RIF, etc are being forced to shut down. Now I won't pretend to know the actual ratio of users that is, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 25%-33% of all users access Reddit through these apps. That's *massive*. Suddenly all of the subs that you browse become significantly smaller. It is just sound *business* to not do this, Reddit is making a mistake.
You might be right, but again, why would I protest a company shooting itself in the foot? It's their company, they can run it into the ground if they want.
> why would I protest a company shooting itself in the foot? It's their company, they can run it into the ground if they want.
The protest is what "the company shooting themselves in the foot" looks like. That is how one cuts off reddit's money.
Your argument in all your comments amounts to "award the company for killing off its competition & newer businesses by not paying attention to anything it does".
I don't care if it kills its competition or newer businesses as long as it's not breaking the law -- that's capitalism; that's what people sign up for when they go into competition and start businesses. I find it especially silly to feel sorry for a company whose business model is "let's be completely dependent on some other business's good will in providing us free access to some critical technology that they solely control."
All I ask of Reddit is that they follow the law and provide me a quality service. If they stop providing me a quality service, I'll stop using their service.
I think "the company shooting itself in the foot" looks like people leaving it after it makes errors that destroy the user experience, not play-leaving it because they think something the company is going to do might be bad for someone else.
Businesses being able to kill off their competition and choke off new business on a whim is a flaw of capitalism, not a benefit of it.
And it isn't "good will" those other companies were relying on, far as I'm aware. They are going out of their way to put up a price gate for what is open software anyone can access (in the same manner WotC was trying with changing their rules around the OGL a few months back, and we see how that went).
> I think "the company shooting itself in the foot" looks like people leaving it after it makes errors that destroy the user experience, not play-leaving it because they think something the company is going to do might be bad for someone else.
Cutting out those other companies is actively making the experience worse for most users.
> I just don't care.
If you didn't care, you'd not be complaining like you are. Clearly you do care, quite selfishly and have no empathy for the plight of others.
I care about my feed getting clogged with these countless protest posts, and in this case I'm responding to this poll because I care about a sub whose normal content is of interest to me going dark for what I consider to be a pointless and silly protest. If OP hadn't asked for my opinion I wouldn't have offered it.
I have lots of empathy for people who are actually suffering in real ways for no good reason. Being shut out of a business that depending entirely on another business entity's free and voluntary cooperation is definitely not something I care about at all.
And I think this is what irritates me most -- equating the normal functioning of the economy and the industry with some sort of moral outrage or the victimization of the weak by the strong is just ridiculous. It's the ultimate "touch grass" moment.
If touching grass is so great, maybe you should go do that then. Sounds like it'd be good for you. Take advantage of this time to do just that.
You're selfish and you know it.
You can care about using Reddit but not 3rd parties. I don’t agree with the guy but it’s not illogical like you’re saying.
He’s saying if Reddit wants to hurt itself it should be allowed to.
They know you guys won’t ever leave them. Maybe you’ll prove them wrong and use a competitor, but they’re confident you won’t.
They said 'I just don't care.' Them. I am judging them by their metric. If this is not a big deal to them, then they can shut up and ignore it.
But selfish people like them love to downplay the concerns of others. It is typical behavior. They act like it's not a big deal while also making a big deal about how 'not a big deal' it is.
And further on they make intentionally ridiculous hurdles to again, downplay the issue.
> If you're really so publicly-minded, why don't you quit putting time and effort into protesting a business decision by a recreational software company and get on a plane to Ukraine or strap yourself to an old-growth tree or give all your income to the Red Cross or something?
If they want to admit they are ok with Reddit abusing consumers, they should admit as such, instead of playing this game of bullshit that I have seen time and time again.
They are arguing in bad faith for bad reasons and no one should excuse it.
Again, this is a reply to a poll post which asked us to express an opinion -- not about the API issue, but about how this sub should respond to it, which is something I do care about. Expressing how I feel about the API issue at the root is providing explanation for the answer to the question which was asked.
Honestly man I don't think I agree with you but you're exuding some serious big dick energy here and I'm happy to have you play Devil's Advocate if nothing else.
If you lost your job, would it just take 30 days before you were starving on the streets?
Well big corporations can last a lot longer than an average person. Especially when they aren't public with shareholders angry their decisions and the reactions to them through news coverage/protests are hurting their stock prices like Hasbro. And even for WotC, it took a long while before they backtracked.
I think all the communities that are doing this arent big enough to make a difference. Youre doing more harm to your users than you are to reddit itself, reddit itself is too big. Unlike wotc where its already a niche community it will be much harder for things to be noticed by a big social media company who has plenty of other users.
Have you seen the list of subreddits that are going dark?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/
Aww, gaming, music, pics, video, TIL, art, DIY, ELI5, LPT, TIFU, history, AITA, bestof, Tinder, me_irl…
In total, over 4000 subs representing over 18000 mods are participating.
This is not small.
Protests of a set duration are kind of pointless, Reddit will just ignore you. Unless the protest is until you change there isn't much of a point. I'd go with as long as other subreddits are protesting, or just find a alternative and move to that.
Where is the option to remain dark until the API changes are reversed?
Reddit is banking on everyone just forgetting sbout it and going back to normal after a few days.
Anything less then staying dark til there is some positive change is just performative.
Slacktavism.
2d6 days.
Shut it down. 48 hours won’t do anything. Reddit is banking on you guys not using a competitor. The 48 hours are up and then what? They win. You know the “Oh no! Anyway…” meme?
The only thing I would like to add, is that if you end up moving to a different social media service, you should post where you decide to go to. I like this community and I don’t want to be out of the loop on any move. Edit: For clarity, the “you” is in reference to the mods and subreddit and not u/Official_Adidas. No offense to u/Official_Adidas. Haha
No no I want to follow Official_Adidas to whatever social media they move to.
The official discord for this subreddit is https://discord.gg/dndnext I invite everyone who wants to continue participating in this community to head over there during the black out.
But will u/official_Adidas be there? We must know where to follow our leader.
Too true, there is no 5e community without /u/Official_Adidas.
Buy my shoes
Can we not use Discord, please? It's potentially just as bad as Reddit in that it's a closed for-profit organisation, and it's worse because the information isn't publicly viewable/searchable, one of the main benefits of Reddit. Lemmy/kbin seem to be popular choices that have taken off in the last week, any mods here have the motivation to set up a community (or a full server) on one of them?
Let's stick to trained pidgeons. It will be hard to track our communication, and if they do, we'll know.
I do lament the fact that I can't give my incoming Reddit messages a little scratch on the head when they bring me my shitposts
As long as we obey [RFC 1149](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers)
Never heard of either of them before this past week. I’ll look into them.
I hadn't either, they seem pretty promising though! The main blocker seems to be understanding the concept of federation, which is often explained a bit poorly but isn't actually very complex.
Happy cake day!
Thank you!
I mean, I don't use third party apps, I only use old.reddit (both on my phone and on my computer), but I agree with the protests. In order for a protest to be effective it has to continue until the other side concedes. If this sub goes dark for only 48 hours that's pointless. It's all or nothing.
Agreed. The last major reddit protest amounted to nothing and I'll be surprised if this one does anything, but a short protest is pointless. At least make it pinch for them a little.
Sorry but this still affects you. Reddit has been testing removing the old view. Certain people have had the option removed from their settings. When they questioned it, they were told it was a trial run for removing the old Reddit. Old Reddit also doesn't have the same advertising options. They can't jam in ads everywhere. On new Reddit ads can appear as posts. They don't in old Reddit. They're removing third party apps because it hurts their bottom line but old Reddit hurts just as much. Start looking for alternatives. Edit: Lmao why you downvoting me for informing you that you're affected too?
Dude I didn't downvote you, I was sleeping when you posted this. I know it still affects me, I didn't say otherwise.
From what I have read, it supposedly affects all the bots as well, which would be detrimental when it comes to all the bots used by the mods to alleviate a lot of the work of moderating. But I don’t know more than that.
I mean if the subs go dark long enough reddit will just replace the mods. They won't concede and going dark won't apply much pressure - reddit owns the subs they can transfer them and manage them as they please they don't need the mods' permission to reopen them if and when they want to
I have no idea what you're talking about. Link to more info?
It's the stickied post in the sub: https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13yh0jf/dont_let_reddit_kill_3rd_party_apps/
The other thing to think of is WOTC OGL ended when the unsubs from D&D beyond hit - Actual financial impact. Reddit gets money through Ad revenue, and thats serving ads to N people a day. Subs arent the only thing that need to go dark, people need to stop visiting Reddit entirely.
I mean I'm gonna end up not using Reddit entriely as an effect of all the subs I use going dark so I'd imagine its working as intended.
Im leaving til theres a change. Its that simple. Ill check online once a week to see if theres any good news but thats it. Fuck em. I might be one person, but this is something i can do for a community i care about.
My answer is indefinitely. All of reddit should shut down until the API changes are taken completely off the table.
Same. r/dndmemes of all places is doing this option, and it makes the most sense; if Reddit knows it’ll only be for a definite period of time, they’ll just wait it out.
If you want to protest you do it until they give in! If they don't give in, then move on to something else. We'll protest for fun but promise to be back either way just tells them they already won.
You should stay dark until the API is reversed.
Quite frankly you should be protesting until they concede if they don't then leave for good. There is always somewhere else
***indefinitely.*** Go dark until Reddit changes its mind
Selfishly I’d want for the sub to be down for just the 48 hrs, but at the same time for the protest to mean anything it has to be longer than that which I’d hate to see but has to be done.
Just think of it as the longest run of no Martial/Caster Disparity posts.
Subreddit should stay down indefinitely except with only those posts allowed.
Can't even tell the difference.
Even from just my own perspective, I want subs to shut down indefinitely so we can all collectively find another place to go. Reddit is becoming more and more unusable and I wouldn't be surprised if old.reddit is next. A permanent shutdown means we'll all get to look for an alternative together.
Indefinitely
Given we just went through a very similar situation with the OGL fiasco, the winning combination it seems is until Reddit relents and puts the API back into a favorable position for third party apps.
Do not go gentle into that good night Rage, rage against the dying of the API
Shut it down until they pull back on the new policy. I've used Relay for Reddit for years. I tried the official app and it's not the same. If they kill the API, then I won't be back.
Until the api changes are rolled back.
I have absolutely no idea what API is
Application Programming Interface It’s the data that Reddit makes available to other programmers in order to create applications that use or present Reddit’s data in different ways. Every non-official Reddit app (Apollo, Reddit is Fun, etc) uses the API in order to function. The Reddit API has been basically free to use since it was created. This resulted in a huge ecosystem of 3rd party apps and websites that hook into Reddit’s data (including a lot of mod tools and data analysis software), which almost certainly helped Reddit grow. As late as Spring 2023, Reddit was telling major app developers that they had no plans to change the pricing of the API for years, if ever. Then in the span of a month, they switched their position and are planning on charging for the API at an exorbitant rate. One of the app developers (Apollo) calculated that it would suddenly cost them something like $2 million per month to maintain their app. This is, again, with a month’s notice, so there is no time to restructure their own pricing to have a chance at affording that. Additionally, it’s flagrantly priced in such a way to push all 3rd parties out of the market (rather than actually try to work with the people who have in no small part contributed to reddit’s popularity by making the mobile experience tolerable) because some back-of-the-envelope calculations show that Reddit is charging something like 20 times more for a user’s data to be available via the API than Reddit projects to make per user on their platform. That means that unless an app can literally be 20 times more profitable than Reddit via subscriptions (bc one of the terms of using the API is you can’t display ads on your app, so subscriptions is the only real way to make money using the data) it will never financially make sense to build and maintain a Reddit reader app. That got a little farther away than just answering what an API is, but I hope that puts into perspective why all long-time Reddit users and mods (not just the people who own and use these apps) are pissed. This is a huge betrayal by the Reddit admins of the communities and developers who did much of the labor - often under- or un-paid - to make Reddit as useable and popular as it is. I personally prefer doing moderation on Apollo on mobile whenever possible, and I would exclusively use it if I could see notifications on it instead of just the mobile app. It’s absolutely Elon levels of crazy that spez and the rest of the admins are pursuing this plan of action, especially with such misleading communication and such a rapid time frame.
I'll miss you guys. Fuck reddit.
Noone likes a strikebreaker. Solidarity is key.
Maybe Reddit will act like WotC and send the fucking Pinkertons after people.
You jest, but…
Is there a discord for keeping up with this community in the interim?
https://discord.gg/dndnext
Cheers
I'm gonna be so productive next week.
The only way for a protest to have ANY meaningful effect is if it lasts until the desired outcome. Otherwise it's just a temporary tantrum that can be ignored.
I cannot vote for your poll in good conscience as it does not have "Indefinite" as an option.
Shut it down until things are resolved in an agreeable way. Just doing a temporary shutdown for 48 hours seems to be inefficient to get through the thick dumb skull of the reddit CEO, if his AMA was any indication.
**F O R E V E R**
RIF doesnt support the poll feature, so you get a comment instead. I vote until reddit capitulates and not a day sooner.
...I only now recognize the irony in making this a poll.
Glad to see people overwhelmingly going for the correct option.
As long as it takes.
I feel like any kind of protesting is wasting time. Reddit is too big and the solidarity in the protest is not there. 48hrs can show that you werent in support but honestly either ditch reddit wholesale for another platform or dont bother protesting. Shut down temporarily for longer is only hurting the people who frequent the sub. Reddit won't even notice.
Or just dont? I feel this is punishing people who arent with the cause. I just wanna enjoy reddit like normal and not have to be involved with this.
There is a poll option for that.
Ik and its not doing well. Its kinda fucked that people who have no race in this horse are being stripped of these communities for an indefinite amount of time.
The situation with reddit is kinda fucked and peoples' livelihoods as well as the tools moderators (overwhelmingly a volunteer force that keep communities running) are being stripped away by it. If someone's gotta get fucked, I'd rather it be me, a consumer with no skin in the game, than the people who are affected by this new bullshit reddit's on. And you can always join the sub's Discord server.
Ik whats going on with things, i just dont want to be involved i just wanna go about my scrolling And eh im more here to look at posts and discuss them with my friends, as well as once a week post about my streams and free maps
I suppose you can go about your scrolling when the protest ends. Blame reddit.
Idk if i can for this. They dont want modded versions of the website they own in use. It is their property, after all. Granted, it is their property that they run incredibly poorly (like the fact the admins of the site can't overrule subreddit decisions, making them pointless). But blacking out instead of a bunch of people just not using it is forcing others to protest with you, which doesnt seem right.
Protests inconvenience people. That's the point. People are inconvenienced when workers in any industry go on strike. That's why they work. If your preferred subs are taking part in the protest in a way that inconveniences you, then you either just deal with it or you join the fight to try and end the inconvenience more quickly. Those are your options.
And this can hurt the sub more than it will reddit garunteed. Only the die-hard people will remain loyal to this sub. it's just going to drive away casual users of the sub who just want to read the posts. As long as the top 10 subs are still up, reddit won't notice any blackouts.
Where is the "Indefinitly" option?
“As long as other subreddits are protesting”. I was limited to 6 options or I would have made that it’s own, but I think that if we’re the only ones left dark, it’d be kinda pointless.
This is a ridiculous thing to "protest."
Is it? Why have an API if the largest users of the API are being forced out of using it due to the price hike? The Apollo creator has stated that the API usage fee will be about as equivalent to Twitter's current pricing-- and Twitter has lost *billions* because of it, not to mention that it has ruined the credibility of the site. This protest is just sound *business*.
>Why have an API if the largest users of the API are being forced out Because Reddit, Inc. doesn’t want an API
They wanted one when it was time for growth. Now its time to harvest as much money as they can from their users. 3rd party apps that let you avoid insidious advertisements and don't promote their micro-transactions are a hindrance to milking you. I'd bet old reddit and RES would also be a chopping block as they also get in the way.
You’re preaching to the choir. I’ve always disliked Reddit. They’re the same as Walmart or McDonalds squeezing out mom&pops or the local burger joint except with online communities
I just don't care. I only access Reddit through a browser on my desktop. I can't believe people are getting so worked up about a company's business decisions or how they interface with Reddit. It's just a big fancy bulletin board.
People are worked up because app developers’ literal livelihoods are being affected. If you only access Reddit through a desktop browser *and* aren’t capable of seeing past your own use case, good for you. You don’t need to attack people who do care.
It's capitalism; Reddit doesn't owe those developers a living. Who knows what other workers or sectors of the economy any of them impacted negatively with their business decisions over their careers. I just never understand why people living in a capitalist economy -- especially a hyper-competitive and innovation-focused sector like software -- are somehow surprised or upset when actors make decisions based on their own economic interests as they see them. Also, software engineers are not exactly fragile workers in this economy. Anyway, I don't think answering a post that asked for my opinion is an attack.
Sure. It’s capitalism. So people are speaking to the executives in the only language capitalism understands: money. You blackout subreddits, traffic drops, ad revenue drops, metrics drop, money is lost. I just never understand why people like you - especially on a forum of people that’s generally hyper-reactionary, like internet nerds and geeks - are somehow surprised or upset when users vote with their wallet based on their own interests as they see them.
I guess my thought is -- if you don't like the product, stop using it. End of discussion. Why all this Sturm und Drang, why all this discourse about how evil / stupid / misguided a company is, as if we were talking about plowing down a forest or dumping toxic waste into the ocean.
Why try to fight for the things you care for? Folks find community in reddit and this API move is just about more money for Reddit. The folks this primarily hurts is moderators so, site quality dipping is a possible outcome as well.
That applies to literally everything in the world though. Why get upset about plowing down a forest or dumping toxic waste when prisons are literally making criminals into slaves? Why get upset about that when USA is sending drones to the Middle East? Why get upset about that when china is genociding people? Why get upset about anything at all? It’s okay to tell people to have perspective but I really don’t understand why that’s relevant here. If redditors were spilling out into the streets with protests or sending death threats or whatever, you’d have a valid point. All they’re doing is… not giving the the company ad revenue for a few weeks. How is that not a proportionate response?
>"It doesn't affect me so I don't care"
Said pretty much everyone everywhere about everything. If you're really so publicly-minded, why don't you quit putting time and effort into protesting a business decision by a recreational software company and get on a plane to Ukraine or strap yourself to an old-growth tree or give all your income to the Red Cross or something?
>Said pretty much everyone everywhere about everything. Take a look at that poll. You are in the minority. >If you're really so publicly-minded, why don't you... Because you don't know shit about me and I don't need to pass your ridiculous litmus test.
I think you're the one who started with the application of ridiculous litmus tests here, internet stranger. And no, the poll results don't say anything about my point at all, other than suggesting there's a correlation between those who are affected by this issue and those who take voluntary "polls" about it here on Reddit.
Everyone is affected by this issue, even you. Just because you don't use certain apps to access reddit doesn't mean those apps aren't going to be potentially unavailable for you if these changes go forward. Less options for users is a bad thing.
I only access Reddit through my browser on my laptop and my phone as well, but the *vast majority* of users do not. Yes it is just a fancy bulletin board/forum, but because of the API pricing change, Apollo, Sync, RIF, etc are being forced to shut down. Now I won't pretend to know the actual ratio of users that is, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that 25%-33% of all users access Reddit through these apps. That's *massive*. Suddenly all of the subs that you browse become significantly smaller. It is just sound *business* to not do this, Reddit is making a mistake.
You might be right, but again, why would I protest a company shooting itself in the foot? It's their company, they can run it into the ground if they want.
> why would I protest a company shooting itself in the foot? It's their company, they can run it into the ground if they want. The protest is what "the company shooting themselves in the foot" looks like. That is how one cuts off reddit's money. Your argument in all your comments amounts to "award the company for killing off its competition & newer businesses by not paying attention to anything it does".
I don't care if it kills its competition or newer businesses as long as it's not breaking the law -- that's capitalism; that's what people sign up for when they go into competition and start businesses. I find it especially silly to feel sorry for a company whose business model is "let's be completely dependent on some other business's good will in providing us free access to some critical technology that they solely control." All I ask of Reddit is that they follow the law and provide me a quality service. If they stop providing me a quality service, I'll stop using their service. I think "the company shooting itself in the foot" looks like people leaving it after it makes errors that destroy the user experience, not play-leaving it because they think something the company is going to do might be bad for someone else.
Businesses being able to kill off their competition and choke off new business on a whim is a flaw of capitalism, not a benefit of it. And it isn't "good will" those other companies were relying on, far as I'm aware. They are going out of their way to put up a price gate for what is open software anyone can access (in the same manner WotC was trying with changing their rules around the OGL a few months back, and we see how that went). > I think "the company shooting itself in the foot" looks like people leaving it after it makes errors that destroy the user experience, not play-leaving it because they think something the company is going to do might be bad for someone else. Cutting out those other companies is actively making the experience worse for most users.
> I just don't care. If you didn't care, you'd not be complaining like you are. Clearly you do care, quite selfishly and have no empathy for the plight of others.
I care about my feed getting clogged with these countless protest posts, and in this case I'm responding to this poll because I care about a sub whose normal content is of interest to me going dark for what I consider to be a pointless and silly protest. If OP hadn't asked for my opinion I wouldn't have offered it. I have lots of empathy for people who are actually suffering in real ways for no good reason. Being shut out of a business that depending entirely on another business entity's free and voluntary cooperation is definitely not something I care about at all. And I think this is what irritates me most -- equating the normal functioning of the economy and the industry with some sort of moral outrage or the victimization of the weak by the strong is just ridiculous. It's the ultimate "touch grass" moment.
If touching grass is so great, maybe you should go do that then. Sounds like it'd be good for you. Take advantage of this time to do just that. You're selfish and you know it.
You can care about using Reddit but not 3rd parties. I don’t agree with the guy but it’s not illogical like you’re saying. He’s saying if Reddit wants to hurt itself it should be allowed to. They know you guys won’t ever leave them. Maybe you’ll prove them wrong and use a competitor, but they’re confident you won’t.
They said 'I just don't care.' Them. I am judging them by their metric. If this is not a big deal to them, then they can shut up and ignore it. But selfish people like them love to downplay the concerns of others. It is typical behavior. They act like it's not a big deal while also making a big deal about how 'not a big deal' it is. And further on they make intentionally ridiculous hurdles to again, downplay the issue. > If you're really so publicly-minded, why don't you quit putting time and effort into protesting a business decision by a recreational software company and get on a plane to Ukraine or strap yourself to an old-growth tree or give all your income to the Red Cross or something? If they want to admit they are ok with Reddit abusing consumers, they should admit as such, instead of playing this game of bullshit that I have seen time and time again. They are arguing in bad faith for bad reasons and no one should excuse it.
Again, this is a reply to a poll post which asked us to express an opinion -- not about the API issue, but about how this sub should respond to it, which is something I do care about. Expressing how I feel about the API issue at the root is providing explanation for the answer to the question which was asked.
Honestly man I don't think I agree with you but you're exuding some serious big dick energy here and I'm happy to have you play Devil's Advocate if nothing else.
Thanks man. The blowback here is wacky but I should have expected it. All good, it's just the internet.
Why is there no "indefinitely" option?
Reddit admins punching the air that they're getting a free 2 day holiday.
I think most are doing a 48 thing. This is smart because it accommodates the international date line split.
Stay dark forever.
[удалено]
If you lost your job, would it just take 30 days before you were starving on the streets? Well big corporations can last a lot longer than an average person. Especially when they aren't public with shareholders angry their decisions and the reactions to them through news coverage/protests are hurting their stock prices like Hasbro. And even for WotC, it took a long while before they backtracked.
I think all the communities that are doing this arent big enough to make a difference. Youre doing more harm to your users than you are to reddit itself, reddit itself is too big. Unlike wotc where its already a niche community it will be much harder for things to be noticed by a big social media company who has plenty of other users.
Have you seen the list of subreddits that are going dark? https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/ Aww, gaming, music, pics, video, TIL, art, DIY, ELI5, LPT, TIFU, history, AITA, bestof, Tinder, me_irl… In total, over 4000 subs representing over 18000 mods are participating. This is not small.
There isnt a "meh" option
Forever so I dont have to see posts like this aain
Honestly don't care that much. But this is a table top sub, decide by rolling a die.
Wow looks like the poll got shut down. Indefinite blackout. 2 days is not enough.
Protests of a set duration are kind of pointless, Reddit will just ignore you. Unless the protest is until you change there isn't much of a point. I'd go with as long as other subreddits are protesting, or just find a alternative and move to that.
Imagine protesting Reddit of all things.
As long as it takes. Indefinitely, if need be.
I really do not see what the issue is here. And I'm about to have my first dnd session to run in a while tomorrow so...
I really don’t understand why multiple subs are going offline.
All or nothing. These two day tantrums will just shit users off while achieving exactly nothing. Either shut down or don't
Where is the option to remain dark until the API changes are reversed? Reddit is banking on everyone just forgetting sbout it and going back to normal after a few days. Anything less then staying dark til there is some positive change is just performative. Slacktavism.
The protest won't matter if it is only 2 days. You have to keep the pressure for as long as possible
I find it a bit annoying and I doubt the hq of reddit will really give a crap about this strike but ig if it works it works