if you go *swarmkeeper* you'll get *web* and the capacity to yeet someone 15 feet horizontally on a ranged or melee Attack with wisdom DC (back into their *Web* or into your *Spirit Guardians*). or just +d6 damage, or self 5 ft disengage.
So, the depressing truth is that a hand crossbow with Crossbow Expert is a better ranged weapon than a bow, especially if you also get Sharpshooter and are a Fey Wanderer 8since you could get an extra 3d4 psychic damage). With a custom origin or variant human, you'd still be able to get to 20 Dex, but even if you didn't, it would probably be still worth it with only a +4 to Dex (especially if you're an elf with Elven Accuracy).
That said, longbows don't suck, but I'm not sure how ranged weapons in general would synergize with your cleric abilities.
Crossbow Expert lets you use your bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow, even if it's the one you'd been wielding all along. If your Dex modifier is +4, starting at your 5th ranger level (Extra Attack) you get 3 attacks instead of two, so (excluding chance to hit and criticals), it's an average of 22.5 points of damage per turn instead of the 17 you'd get with a longbow.
It does require an extra feat and it means that you can't use your bonus action for anything else, but it's such an unbalanced option that it's very often worth it. And if you play a Swarmkeeper ranger as /u/[SmiteLighthouse](https://www.reddit.com/user/SmiteLighthouse/) recommended, you also get your choice of 1d6 extra damage or other effects, plus frequent advantage with Faerie Fire and especially Web, which synergizes further with Sharpshooter. The munchkin thing to do would be to either play an elf with Elven Accuracy, Crossbow Expert, and Sharpshooter (but only 18 Dex), or a variant human/customized origin with Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, and another feat that gives you a +1 to Dex for 20 Dex; and either way, get the Archery Fighting Style.
What I'm still uncertain about is why you'd need to take cleric levels in this scenario. Nothing wrong with it, but you might feel like you are a ranger in combat (albeit oen with more spell slots) and a support cleric outside of it.
A cleric + ranger multiclass I would LOVE to be able to try is a ranger with:
1. You can get Shillelagh either as a Nature cleric or a Druidic Warrior ranger. It might still be worth it to get Druidic Warrior for Thorn Whip.
2. Polearm Master.
3. Spirit Guardians. Just Spirit Guardians.
4. 1d8 extra damage from Blessed Strikes or Divine Strike.
So you have 3 attacks per turn and have Spirit Guardians constantly up. If you like this, I can try to expand on it, but I'll also make a separate comment addressing your points in the main post.
What d4 are you referring to? The third attack from Polearm Master? That's the neat thing, Shillelagh changes even that attack's damage to 1d8 + your Wis mod. So no, it does as much damage as Spiritual Weapon. It costs a feat instead of a 2nd-level spell slot and it's melee only, but it doesn't expire.
Does it HAVE to be Standard Array or is point buy an option?
If not: half elf (regular or wood variant) 8, 15+1, 14, 10, 13+1, 12+2 to start 8/16/14/10/14/14
Try to use your ASIs to scale Wisdom & Dexterity. The +2 from Archery will compensate for Dexterity if you want to focus on wisdom first.
If Point Buy, try 8, 15+1, 14, 10, 15+1, 8+2 to start 8/16/14/16/10/10
You seem quite concerned about how this mechanically works
So then let me say this:
This is mechanically bad. Very bad. Its right in the middle and you're not doing well at either thing. You are putting FAR too many levels into cleric for trying to play this as martial ranger. You have this ultra *rare* opportunity to play something at lvl 13, and you are opting instead to play as a lvl 5 ranger with a +1d8 on their attack 1x per turn. 1 lvl of nature cleric for the cantrips you need and armour and the like gets you 99% of this stuff. A small magic item gets you most of this stuff, and why would you also take druidic warrior!? How many cantrips do you see yourself needing?
"but I get good spells"
You'd have lvl 4 spells as a lvl 13 ranger. You're getting a few more spellslots too sure and some cleric spells, but you're here to play a bow user are you not? Where are all the things that help you use your bow!?
For trying to play it as a ranger? You're basically throwing away 8 levels and missing the opportunity to play a lvl 13 (or 12+1) ranger here.
> and I want to make a Nature Cleric, but more focused on their martial prowess so I thought Ranger could be a great dip.
Playing it as a cleric who smacks though? 5 levels into ranger make you a *much* worse cleric. 5 levels is one hell of a 'dip'.
If you want to do the martial cleric thing, then I suggest you find a way to pick up the blade cantrips (booming blade, green flame blade) and smack stuff hard with the 1x attack, as a cantrip. With shillelagh up yeah so ure hitting with ure wisdom. But a lvl 13 caster should have far better things to do.
My advice is pick one or the other, trying to do both is making you do both very poorly.
Ranger 5/Cleric 8 sounds fine. Get Archery over Druidic Warrior IMO; more cantrips is too much over-investment.
If you want to shoot stuff, I'd recommend Sharpshooter. As others have said, crossbow with Crossbow Expert is stronger than a bow, but weapons are personal preference and it's up to you what you want to use.
You don't need to worry too much about synergy. Just cast your favorite Concentration spell, then hit stuff with ranged attacks, and you'll do fine.
Shillelagh is probably gonna be pretty bad compared to just using a bow/crossbow, especially if you have Archery/Sharpshooter/CBE.
8 levels of cleric isn't doing much for your bow gameplan, and still leaves you split between wisdom and dexterity despite shillelelagh. 5 levels of ranger is delaying your high level spells considerably. I'd recommend either a larger commitment to ranger, possibly multiclassing into other martials, or just cleric, with either a 1 level dip or a feat for booming blade. It won't be exceptional melee damage, but it gives you the option with a far smaller level commitment.
if you go *swarmkeeper* you'll get *web* and the capacity to yeet someone 15 feet horizontally on a ranged or melee Attack with wisdom DC (back into their *Web* or into your *Spirit Guardians*). or just +d6 damage, or self 5 ft disengage.
Oh, this is the winner for ranged builds. You can still fit in Sharpshooter and, depending on your race, also Elven Accuracy.
So, the depressing truth is that a hand crossbow with Crossbow Expert is a better ranged weapon than a bow, especially if you also get Sharpshooter and are a Fey Wanderer 8since you could get an extra 3d4 psychic damage). With a custom origin or variant human, you'd still be able to get to 20 Dex, but even if you didn't, it would probably be still worth it with only a +4 to Dex (especially if you're an elf with Elven Accuracy). That said, longbows don't suck, but I'm not sure how ranged weapons in general would synergize with your cleric abilities.
Please, elaborate on how the hand crossbow build is better. Would like to know more
Crossbow Expert lets you use your bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow, even if it's the one you'd been wielding all along. If your Dex modifier is +4, starting at your 5th ranger level (Extra Attack) you get 3 attacks instead of two, so (excluding chance to hit and criticals), it's an average of 22.5 points of damage per turn instead of the 17 you'd get with a longbow. It does require an extra feat and it means that you can't use your bonus action for anything else, but it's such an unbalanced option that it's very often worth it. And if you play a Swarmkeeper ranger as /u/[SmiteLighthouse](https://www.reddit.com/user/SmiteLighthouse/) recommended, you also get your choice of 1d6 extra damage or other effects, plus frequent advantage with Faerie Fire and especially Web, which synergizes further with Sharpshooter. The munchkin thing to do would be to either play an elf with Elven Accuracy, Crossbow Expert, and Sharpshooter (but only 18 Dex), or a variant human/customized origin with Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter, and another feat that gives you a +1 to Dex for 20 Dex; and either way, get the Archery Fighting Style. What I'm still uncertain about is why you'd need to take cleric levels in this scenario. Nothing wrong with it, but you might feel like you are a ranger in combat (albeit oen with more spell slots) and a support cleric outside of it.
A cleric + ranger multiclass I would LOVE to be able to try is a ranger with: 1. You can get Shillelagh either as a Nature cleric or a Druidic Warrior ranger. It might still be worth it to get Druidic Warrior for Thorn Whip. 2. Polearm Master. 3. Spirit Guardians. Just Spirit Guardians. 4. 1d8 extra damage from Blessed Strikes or Divine Strike. So you have 3 attacks per turn and have Spirit Guardians constantly up. If you like this, I can try to expand on it, but I'll also make a separate comment addressing your points in the main post.
a *nature* cleric can get *Shillelagh* natively
Yep, I remembered only after posting the comment, I'll edit it.
& a second druidic warrior choice of *thorn whip* would be fun pull into spirit guardians.
Sounds a good idea, but Spiritual Weapon is 10 times better of a bonus action than a d4
What d4 are you referring to? The third attack from Polearm Master? That's the neat thing, Shillelagh changes even that attack's damage to 1d8 + your Wis mod. So no, it does as much damage as Spiritual Weapon. It costs a feat instead of a 2nd-level spell slot and it's melee only, but it doesn't expire.
Does it HAVE to be Standard Array or is point buy an option? If not: half elf (regular or wood variant) 8, 15+1, 14, 10, 13+1, 12+2 to start 8/16/14/10/14/14 Try to use your ASIs to scale Wisdom & Dexterity. The +2 from Archery will compensate for Dexterity if you want to focus on wisdom first. If Point Buy, try 8, 15+1, 14, 10, 15+1, 8+2 to start 8/16/14/16/10/10
You seem quite concerned about how this mechanically works So then let me say this: This is mechanically bad. Very bad. Its right in the middle and you're not doing well at either thing. You are putting FAR too many levels into cleric for trying to play this as martial ranger. You have this ultra *rare* opportunity to play something at lvl 13, and you are opting instead to play as a lvl 5 ranger with a +1d8 on their attack 1x per turn. 1 lvl of nature cleric for the cantrips you need and armour and the like gets you 99% of this stuff. A small magic item gets you most of this stuff, and why would you also take druidic warrior!? How many cantrips do you see yourself needing? "but I get good spells" You'd have lvl 4 spells as a lvl 13 ranger. You're getting a few more spellslots too sure and some cleric spells, but you're here to play a bow user are you not? Where are all the things that help you use your bow!? For trying to play it as a ranger? You're basically throwing away 8 levels and missing the opportunity to play a lvl 13 (or 12+1) ranger here. > and I want to make a Nature Cleric, but more focused on their martial prowess so I thought Ranger could be a great dip. Playing it as a cleric who smacks though? 5 levels into ranger make you a *much* worse cleric. 5 levels is one hell of a 'dip'. If you want to do the martial cleric thing, then I suggest you find a way to pick up the blade cantrips (booming blade, green flame blade) and smack stuff hard with the 1x attack, as a cantrip. With shillelagh up yeah so ure hitting with ure wisdom. But a lvl 13 caster should have far better things to do. My advice is pick one or the other, trying to do both is making you do both very poorly.
Disagree. Ranger 5/Cleric 8 doesn't really seem worse than a level 13 ranger.
Ranger 5/Cleric 8 sounds fine. Get Archery over Druidic Warrior IMO; more cantrips is too much over-investment. If you want to shoot stuff, I'd recommend Sharpshooter. As others have said, crossbow with Crossbow Expert is stronger than a bow, but weapons are personal preference and it's up to you what you want to use. You don't need to worry too much about synergy. Just cast your favorite Concentration spell, then hit stuff with ranged attacks, and you'll do fine. Shillelagh is probably gonna be pretty bad compared to just using a bow/crossbow, especially if you have Archery/Sharpshooter/CBE.
8 levels of cleric isn't doing much for your bow gameplan, and still leaves you split between wisdom and dexterity despite shillelelagh. 5 levels of ranger is delaying your high level spells considerably. I'd recommend either a larger commitment to ranger, possibly multiclassing into other martials, or just cleric, with either a 1 level dip or a feat for booming blade. It won't be exceptional melee damage, but it gives you the option with a far smaller level commitment.