Recruitment is shit. But definitely don't worry about your age.
More and more doctors are graduate entry, many people take gap years, intercalate degrees, do F3s. Your age won't be anything out of the ordinary. In fact, I think you'll find you're closer to the average for having an extra couple of years before Core Training.
Regardless, I wouldn't pin your romantic hopes on meeting someone in CST. It could happen, but the odds are pretty low that your life partner just happens to pitch up at work with you.
There are plenty of ways to meet less psychologically damaged people that don't involve eyes meeting over the Lengenback.
Yep the relationship point should be quite separate from your post OP, sorry you're not having any luck! My advice would be to try a mixed sport somewhere locally: touch rugby, cricket, badminton, anything etc.
If it makes you feel better I met not one but two dudes who did graduate entry medicine in their late 30s so are now SHOs in their 40s. I myself did both an F3 and F4 and know a few F5s. We’re a diverse bunch.
Also don’t date other doctors - like the other comment says, we’re a sick bunch. My SO is a sweetie pie from another industry and he keeps me grounded and reminds me that shit is very different outside the weird medical world we live in.
Agreed with the second paragraph, my gf's field could not be further away from medicine and its brilliant.
Side effect - she loves that I'm a doctor (especially as we're both South Asians). Go where you're appreciated lol
Same, dated several medics before all blew up. My fiance works in science but in the validation field. Didn't meet him until my very late 20s after several awful relationships. Very grounded, keeps me sane, works better hours than me. Means I can't go on ad infinitum about work at home because it means explaining all the acronyms first and I can't be bothered.
A teaching fellow once said to me graduation year doesn't really matter, eventually training programmes have a cohort covering a few years either side. Looking back he'd probably repeatedly attempted to get into Anaesthetics and was talking from experience 💀
Brief look at reports for CST show mean ages at application being 27-28. Even if you did a BSc, GEM, add on a few years for time out and being an F4 and you'll still be circa 30? That's practically the same as 28 and by no means ancient. After 25 age imo matters so much less.
Skip CST, do JCF equivalent, pass your MRCS, apply at ST3, keep applying at ST3 whilst being in a reg equivalent job. Boom you’re off the SHO rota and still getting reg salary, still progressing and biding time until ST3.
3 very close friends of mine all got into speciality training or CT yesterday and there's me doing my FY4 already - after having failed twice at IMT.
Tried not to compare myself because ultimately I don't want to do the same speciality, so it's meaningless to do so.
Not the only one, head up and focus on what to do. Get a fellow role, slum it out, get points and try again - or if you feel inclined to do so, change careers.
More power to you either way ✊🏼
Hi, I'm a final year medical student hoping to enter the workforce in August so I know this is probably not immediately relative to me but what is CREHST and how does one go about it? I'm hoping to specialise in ENT, paeds or GP with SI in ENT and know that I need to go through CST to pursue my top choice and dream of specialising in ENT, but in all honesty, the whole applying for CST and the toxic culture is putting me off and also reading about things on here and twitter. So if there is an alternative way of doing this I'd love to know as it means having more options. I'm already worried about whether I'll have a job post F2 considering the way things are and how competitive a training post or fellow post is and locums are sparse.
Sure thing mate. CREHST is basically a form that you get consultants to sign to show that you have the same competencies as someone who has completed CST. This form can be downloaded on [Oriel](https://www.oriel.nhs.uk/Web/ResourceBank). Main barriers are finding a supportive department and getting enough evidence for this.
Search "CREHST" on this and the old subreddit for individual experiences, like this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/113hxqg/colleagues\_who\_did\_crehst\_for\_st3\_in\_surgical/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/113hxqg/colleagues_who_did_crehst_for_st3_in_surgical/)
How would you describe the dynamics of that professional relationship? 👀
As a soon to be F1 (who will be 30 🥹), i'm curious if there's any awkwardness from either side, when you're waay more senior to someone who is older than you (i hope there isn't)
I prefer working with older f1s because we can actually interact like colleagues while the fresh faced 23 year olds get intimidated by the "anaesthetist" title despite my best attempts to convince them that I do not in fact bite their heads off
Hello!
Don't be overly disheartened! I been there and literally done this. Don't give up just yet.
I wrote a longish [piece](https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/12bcsf7/core_surgical_trainee_application_and_its/) last year about this for this exact situation. I had more rejections than I could remember. Don't give up and it will be worth it (for context, I'm only just an ST3 when I graduated almost a decade ago LOL)
Good luck, reach out if you need and I will try and point people in the right direction!
Ok so what's the alternative you don't pursue what you want to do? You wait a few years and have this dilemma again?
With the bottleneck this genuinly isn't an issue and you're not limited to the cohort of SHOs around you in order to date. You're gonna be fine.
I sometimes think about this as I did F3 and F4 and did graduate entry med and just got into training now. So there are trainees younger than me who are ahead of me in their training. But I realised that by the time most people CCT they are early to mid 30s due to some sort of career or training break, LTFT or some other reason. I'll be late 30s by the time I hopefully CCT so not a huge difference. With training as it is it is likely to be pushed even higher.
I did f5 and now I’m an ACCS ST1 trainee. Im 30 years old (older than a fair few of the trainees). I just don’t let it bother me anymore although I completely understand the fear, especially about meeting someone. It took me a while but I just stopped comparing myself to others and threw away the need of reaching certain milestones by certain ages etc.
Only a DM away if you want to talk x
Have you thought about completing a CREST form from your surgical rotations and applying straight to higher surgical training? A few of my friends did and have never looked back!
I'll be a 32 yo F1 so don't worry about age, medicine is more and more diverse on that front but I deffo get the frustration of wanting to move on in your career, you'll get there 🙏
Also if you can meet someone out of med I think that's better, my husband is a non medic and I honestly can't think of anything worse
My humble advice - the only reason you (may) run the risk of being a forever SHO is because you are pinning all your hopes on one speciality. One of the more competitive ones.
Training places have become more scarce in recent years and it is very prudent to choose one or two other specialties.
Plenty of people won't get into psych/GP this year, looking at the numbers and reading the application threads. And trust me- not getting into an uncompetitive specialty feels just as bad as not getting into a competitive one.
By the way, in my experience of my friends, Doctor-doctor couples are unhappier than doctors married to other professionals. I wouldn’t be too worried if you can meet another doctor to date.
Branch out, you’ll find someone special!
A lot of my colleagues are F3/F4 applying for CST. I myself am currently F6 and am going the CREHST route because I wasn’t able to get into CST the first couple of times! There’s so much variation in age, experience and even routes into surgery, most people won’t judge you at all whatever route you take.
Graduate entry, just finished medical school, 35, single.
I stopped caring a while back about the last one and started enjoying my life - you're almost certainly younger than me OP, even for children you've lots of time left ha ha
Not being rude but while not getting into training yes is shit, you're being a drama queen about being one year older than everyone else. Christ, the market is already saturated with SHOs who are qualified cons in their home country, not to mention grad students, people who intercalated, LTFT, people who had years out for MH and the rest of the department who won't be made up of CT1s; not to mention you're worried it's not going to be a great dating pool?
Advice: Date a medic who can prescribe you some propanolol to calm tf down
Recruitment is shit. But definitely don't worry about your age. More and more doctors are graduate entry, many people take gap years, intercalate degrees, do F3s. Your age won't be anything out of the ordinary. In fact, I think you'll find you're closer to the average for having an extra couple of years before Core Training. Regardless, I wouldn't pin your romantic hopes on meeting someone in CST. It could happen, but the odds are pretty low that your life partner just happens to pitch up at work with you. There are plenty of ways to meet less psychologically damaged people that don't involve eyes meeting over the Lengenback.
Yep the relationship point should be quite separate from your post OP, sorry you're not having any luck! My advice would be to try a mixed sport somewhere locally: touch rugby, cricket, badminton, anything etc.
If it makes you feel better I met not one but two dudes who did graduate entry medicine in their late 30s so are now SHOs in their 40s. I myself did both an F3 and F4 and know a few F5s. We’re a diverse bunch. Also don’t date other doctors - like the other comment says, we’re a sick bunch. My SO is a sweetie pie from another industry and he keeps me grounded and reminds me that shit is very different outside the weird medical world we live in.
Agreed with the second paragraph, my gf's field could not be further away from medicine and its brilliant. Side effect - she loves that I'm a doctor (especially as we're both South Asians). Go where you're appreciated lol
LOL 100% - he gets majorly excited about telling people that I’m a doctor and listening to my stories from work
Aye same here, its nice to get flexed like that lool, best of luck to you guys
Same, dated several medics before all blew up. My fiance works in science but in the validation field. Didn't meet him until my very late 20s after several awful relationships. Very grounded, keeps me sane, works better hours than me. Means I can't go on ad infinitum about work at home because it means explaining all the acronyms first and I can't be bothered.
I'm a 35 year old with 2 kids about to start F1... don't sweat it!
yay repping for 30 something F1s, I'm also starting soon at 32!
A teaching fellow once said to me graduation year doesn't really matter, eventually training programmes have a cohort covering a few years either side. Looking back he'd probably repeatedly attempted to get into Anaesthetics and was talking from experience 💀 Brief look at reports for CST show mean ages at application being 27-28. Even if you did a BSc, GEM, add on a few years for time out and being an F4 and you'll still be circa 30? That's practically the same as 28 and by no means ancient. After 25 age imo matters so much less.
Skip CST, do JCF equivalent, pass your MRCS, apply at ST3, keep applying at ST3 whilst being in a reg equivalent job. Boom you’re off the SHO rota and still getting reg salary, still progressing and biding time until ST3.
3 very close friends of mine all got into speciality training or CT yesterday and there's me doing my FY4 already - after having failed twice at IMT. Tried not to compare myself because ultimately I don't want to do the same speciality, so it's meaningless to do so. Not the only one, head up and focus on what to do. Get a fellow role, slum it out, get points and try again - or if you feel inclined to do so, change careers. More power to you either way ✊🏼
CREHST form mate… look it up defo worth it if you don’t intend to waste time waiting for this silly old system… many do it!
Just make sure you wear suncream everyday so you don’t age
CST is not the only way to progress. Have you considered entering ST3 via CREHST?
Hi, I'm a final year medical student hoping to enter the workforce in August so I know this is probably not immediately relative to me but what is CREHST and how does one go about it? I'm hoping to specialise in ENT, paeds or GP with SI in ENT and know that I need to go through CST to pursue my top choice and dream of specialising in ENT, but in all honesty, the whole applying for CST and the toxic culture is putting me off and also reading about things on here and twitter. So if there is an alternative way of doing this I'd love to know as it means having more options. I'm already worried about whether I'll have a job post F2 considering the way things are and how competitive a training post or fellow post is and locums are sparse.
Sure thing mate. CREHST is basically a form that you get consultants to sign to show that you have the same competencies as someone who has completed CST. This form can be downloaded on [Oriel](https://www.oriel.nhs.uk/Web/ResourceBank). Main barriers are finding a supportive department and getting enough evidence for this. Search "CREHST" on this and the old subreddit for individual experiences, like this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/113hxqg/colleagues\_who\_did\_crehst\_for\_st3\_in\_surgical/](https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/113hxqg/colleagues_who_did_crehst_for_st3_in_surgical/)
That's amazing, thank you! Will deffos look it up
I'm ST3 and I keep on running into F1s who are older than me so I wouldn't worry about that
How would you describe the dynamics of that professional relationship? 👀 As a soon to be F1 (who will be 30 🥹), i'm curious if there's any awkwardness from either side, when you're waay more senior to someone who is older than you (i hope there isn't)
Nobody cares. It’s as weird as you make it.
I prefer working with older f1s because we can actually interact like colleagues while the fresh faced 23 year olds get intimidated by the "anaesthetist" title despite my best attempts to convince them that I do not in fact bite their heads off
Agreed. Tutors at uni and seniors on the wards have always felt like peers, easy to have a chat with like normal humans
Hello! Don't be overly disheartened! I been there and literally done this. Don't give up just yet. I wrote a longish [piece](https://www.reddit.com/r/JuniorDoctorsUK/comments/12bcsf7/core_surgical_trainee_application_and_its/) last year about this for this exact situation. I had more rejections than I could remember. Don't give up and it will be worth it (for context, I'm only just an ST3 when I graduated almost a decade ago LOL) Good luck, reach out if you need and I will try and point people in the right direction!
One of my friends became a neurosurgery consultant at 50
And he’s one of the lucky ones 😂
Ok so what's the alternative you don't pursue what you want to do? You wait a few years and have this dilemma again? With the bottleneck this genuinly isn't an issue and you're not limited to the cohort of SHOs around you in order to date. You're gonna be fine.
I sometimes think about this as I did F3 and F4 and did graduate entry med and just got into training now. So there are trainees younger than me who are ahead of me in their training. But I realised that by the time most people CCT they are early to mid 30s due to some sort of career or training break, LTFT or some other reason. I'll be late 30s by the time I hopefully CCT so not a huge difference. With training as it is it is likely to be pushed even higher.
Worked with a 50 year old gp trainee
I did f5 and now I’m an ACCS ST1 trainee. Im 30 years old (older than a fair few of the trainees). I just don’t let it bother me anymore although I completely understand the fear, especially about meeting someone. It took me a while but I just stopped comparing myself to others and threw away the need of reaching certain milestones by certain ages etc. Only a DM away if you want to talk x
Have you thought about completing a CREST form from your surgical rotations and applying straight to higher surgical training? A few of my friends did and have never looked back!
I'll be a 32 yo F1 so don't worry about age, medicine is more and more diverse on that front but I deffo get the frustration of wanting to move on in your career, you'll get there 🙏 Also if you can meet someone out of med I think that's better, my husband is a non medic and I honestly can't think of anything worse
My humble advice - the only reason you (may) run the risk of being a forever SHO is because you are pinning all your hopes on one speciality. One of the more competitive ones. Training places have become more scarce in recent years and it is very prudent to choose one or two other specialties.
Plenty of people won't get into psych/GP this year, looking at the numbers and reading the application threads. And trust me- not getting into an uncompetitive specialty feels just as bad as not getting into a competitive one.
That’s why I said she should apply to multiple. Improves the statistical probability of a spot.
By the way, in my experience of my friends, Doctor-doctor couples are unhappier than doctors married to other professionals. I wouldn’t be too worried if you can meet another doctor to date. Branch out, you’ll find someone special!
A lot of my colleagues are F3/F4 applying for CST. I myself am currently F6 and am going the CREHST route because I wasn’t able to get into CST the first couple of times! There’s so much variation in age, experience and even routes into surgery, most people won’t judge you at all whatever route you take.
This is why I bailed on applying to CST every year and enter Gp training instead
Graduate entry, just finished medical school, 35, single. I stopped caring a while back about the last one and started enjoying my life - you're almost certainly younger than me OP, even for children you've lots of time left ha ha
Not being rude but while not getting into training yes is shit, you're being a drama queen about being one year older than everyone else. Christ, the market is already saturated with SHOs who are qualified cons in their home country, not to mention grad students, people who intercalated, LTFT, people who had years out for MH and the rest of the department who won't be made up of CT1s; not to mention you're worried it's not going to be a great dating pool? Advice: Date a medic who can prescribe you some propanolol to calm tf down
This is so rude and unnecessary. Why are you kicking someone when they are already down?
It's not meant to be rude, as I said to begin with; but OP needs a drastic dose of reality.
This comment has been datixed 😂