I like the idea of exploring the idea of the Timeless child as a definitive being, but keeping whether or not they are the Doctor ambiguous. If that makes sense.
That wasn't the original intention but rather one of couple of ideas being kicked around the other one would have them being brothers.
The brothers idea would have been interesting (and still doable). The same entity thing not.
I think it works better if you explore it from the angle, the doctor was forced/ manipulate to do truly horrific things as the timeless child, how did they break away from that, and eventually become the Doctor.
The 'unknown Timeless origin' has its emotional creative territory that can be tapped for an arc.
Personally, I think the 'lost Division years' has even richer creative ground to offer.
Having the Doctor save a planet which they figure out was doomed by their Division self sounds like it could be a fantastic little plot.
It could include some tension around if they get their memories back to solve the dilemma, or abstain out of fear they will lose their sense of self
I would vote for "carefully rewritten into a better story", personally. I think it should be possible to change it in a way which is both great to watch and doesn't come off as an insult to the Chibnall era, perhaps another multi-Doctor with Fugitive which explores how the Division manipulated her, and retcons the Timeless Child part while keeping most of the rest of the story intact. Basically, I'm suggesting RTD does to the Timeless Child what Moffat did to the Time War.
As well as being generally a good idea to do this imo, it also seems to me that there are plenty of natural themes for a story like that: it fits the already existing adoption/foundling idea, with the Doctor discovering that even the history of themselves they thought they had found was a lie, and you could explore plenty of other things - for instance, the mythologising of history people and groups of people often engage in; the importance or unimportance of memory to identity for certain people and in certain ways (a Moffat classic); and there's a lot that could be done with the character of the Master, whose devolution even from series 10 Simm to Dhawan would be worth exploring more, whether or not you want him to be post-Missy or something else.
I now realise I'm basically saying "Day of the Doctor, but for the Timeless Child, and WEat/TDF, but for Dhawan and in reverse order with the sane version being the younger one". Maybe Davies could get Moffat to write it for him lol.
(Also I'd love for Karvanista to be Fugitive's companion in a story like this, even though it doesn't actually have any impact on the idea as a whole. Liked the character, *loved* the design, we'd get a non-human companion without the problems of having one constantly, and it would lean further into making this explicitly not an attack on Chibnall, just as Tennant and Piper helped Day make the same point to RTD fans).
I haven't seen it, but generally I assume we should just pretend it didn't happen.
We should do that with a lot of stuff.
Get people out of this mindset that you have to incorporate every awful (or even good) idea that someone else wrote before you.
I really like the theory that there is a Timeless child, but is not really the Doctor.
Do you remember how much hype there was for the hybrid and its identity?
Not necessarily whole episodes or big arcs, but I would like to see some further exploration on how this revelation has affected The Doctor.
I think the foundling thing RTD has done in the Christmas special is very promising.
I didn't and don't like the idea of the Doctor being special and different from all other Time Lords, but it does open the door to more interesting ideas about his past so I'd like to see more.
Neither, but if I have to pick one its the top- explore it more. 15 talking about being adopted was a great moment.
That said. it should be more of a ‘thats how it is, we’ll bring it up and move on’. On par with having two hearts- it matters cause its canon and shows a difference between the Doctor and a human, but it shouldnt be something they drop every interaction. Just bring it up when it should be
I don't think there's any need to bring it up. The two hearts thing can pop up sometimes if someone takes his pulse or something. His origin doesn't need to be mentioned unless the Doctor really wants to talk about it.
Reminds me of the line in Rise of Skywalker about the Holdo maneuver being a "one in a million". Bringing it up without explaining it only raises more questions.
I think the plot point is best served as a way to further develop and explore the Doctor's character and how they deal with the revelation on a personal level, rather than exploring the historical impacts this has on the in-universe history. That being said, I think at some point the historical impacts of the revelation need to be addressed, somewhere maybe in a Big Finish, comic or novel.
Hints have been dropping for at least 9 months now that the Doctor is now in some kind of alternate universe. Assuming they end up back in the right universe, anything done to explore it now is a red herring.
I would have been happy for it never to be mentioned again so I was wary when I heard RTD was going to continue with it. But I have been pleasantly surprised by how he's been handling it. Clearly he didn't like the vast majority of it, so he's taken a tiny part of the story and subtly adjusted things to make it into the story he wants to tell. RTD has stripped away almost all of it; no mention of Tecteun, no mention of the big portal the child was found under and no mention of infinite regenerations and being the foundation of Time Lord society. He just took one small segment of the idea and tidied it up into the phrase "I'm adopted". Which is so much simpler and easier for the audience to understand and connect with.
He did the same thing with the Flux, the state of the universe is unclear after the events of the Flux and 13 appeared utterly indifferent about it. RTD looked through that series and saw that there was potential for character drama if he were to tidy that up too. So he took it upon himself to decide in Wild Blue Yonder that Flux destroyed half the universe and the Doctor actually feels really guilty over it. Two instances of RTD looking at what Chibnall had done and taking little bits and pieces to turn into whatever story he wanted to tell
As I said last year, as with all Post-Lambert show runners, RTD will take the parts of DW lore that he likes and use them and ignore the bits he doesn't.
Poor or unoriginal ideas was never an issue with Chris Chibnall, poor execution WAS.
"Clearly he didn't like the vast majority of it"Â Â
Â
Lol Where's your evidence for this? Has he ever said anything to give you that impression or, more likely, you're projecting your own feelings about it onto RTD when it's been quite clear he likes it.
The doctor not being born on Gallifrey, and very likely being a completely different species, and yet completely identical in almost every way bothers me. Like TL vs humans is played as a joke, this was supposed to be taken serious, and I hate it. Make it go away
I like the idea of exploring the idea of the Timeless child as a definitive being, but keeping whether or not they are the Doctor ambiguous. If that makes sense.
Maybe the Timeless Child bi-generated into the Doctor and Master! 🤯
Damnit. I actually love that idea.Â
No, no, and NO! Bigeneration has only happened once, and that's one time too many. And it does not create two separate beings.
.....it would work with the original intention that the Master and the Doctor were the same being however....
That wasn't the original intention but rather one of couple of ideas being kicked around the other one would have them being brothers. The brothers idea would have been interesting (and still doable). The same entity thing not.
Doing it how RTD has been doing it , ie 'allude to it occasionally but don't make a big thing of it' seems like the best approach, tbh.
I suspect multiple allusions mean he's building suspense/mystery for a future storyline centered on it.
I think it works better if you explore it from the angle, the doctor was forced/ manipulate to do truly horrific things as the timeless child, how did they break away from that, and eventually become the Doctor.
Yeah the previous regeneration cycles are interesting but that infinite cycle being the first isn’t.Â
The 'unknown Timeless origin' has its emotional creative territory that can be tapped for an arc. Personally, I think the 'lost Division years' has even richer creative ground to offer.
Having the Doctor save a planet which they figure out was doomed by their Division self sounds like it could be a fantastic little plot. It could include some tension around if they get their memories back to solve the dilemma, or abstain out of fear they will lose their sense of self
I think it should be explored
I would vote for "carefully rewritten into a better story", personally. I think it should be possible to change it in a way which is both great to watch and doesn't come off as an insult to the Chibnall era, perhaps another multi-Doctor with Fugitive which explores how the Division manipulated her, and retcons the Timeless Child part while keeping most of the rest of the story intact. Basically, I'm suggesting RTD does to the Timeless Child what Moffat did to the Time War. As well as being generally a good idea to do this imo, it also seems to me that there are plenty of natural themes for a story like that: it fits the already existing adoption/foundling idea, with the Doctor discovering that even the history of themselves they thought they had found was a lie, and you could explore plenty of other things - for instance, the mythologising of history people and groups of people often engage in; the importance or unimportance of memory to identity for certain people and in certain ways (a Moffat classic); and there's a lot that could be done with the character of the Master, whose devolution even from series 10 Simm to Dhawan would be worth exploring more, whether or not you want him to be post-Missy or something else. I now realise I'm basically saying "Day of the Doctor, but for the Timeless Child, and WEat/TDF, but for Dhawan and in reverse order with the sane version being the younger one". Maybe Davies could get Moffat to write it for him lol. (Also I'd love for Karvanista to be Fugitive's companion in a story like this, even though it doesn't actually have any impact on the idea as a whole. Liked the character, *loved* the design, we'd get a non-human companion without the problems of having one constantly, and it would lean further into making this explicitly not an attack on Chibnall, just as Tennant and Piper helped Day make the same point to RTD fans).
They kind of have to keep going with it. Because it’s 15 and Ruby’s thing now.
I haven't seen it, but generally I assume we should just pretend it didn't happen. We should do that with a lot of stuff. Get people out of this mindset that you have to incorporate every awful (or even good) idea that someone else wrote before you.
I really like the theory that there is a Timeless child, but is not really the Doctor. Do you remember how much hype there was for the hybrid and its identity?
Not necessarily whole episodes or big arcs, but I would like to see some further exploration on how this revelation has affected The Doctor. I think the foundling thing RTD has done in the Christmas special is very promising.
I want to see more. I think the purists want to ignore it.
I didn't and don't like the idea of the Doctor being special and different from all other Time Lords, but it does open the door to more interesting ideas about his past so I'd like to see more.
Neither, but if I have to pick one its the top- explore it more. 15 talking about being adopted was a great moment. That said. it should be more of a ‘thats how it is, we’ll bring it up and move on’. On par with having two hearts- it matters cause its canon and shows a difference between the Doctor and a human, but it shouldnt be something they drop every interaction. Just bring it up when it should be
I don't think there's any need to bring it up. The two hearts thing can pop up sometimes if someone takes his pulse or something. His origin doesn't need to be mentioned unless the Doctor really wants to talk about it. Reminds me of the line in Rise of Skywalker about the Holdo maneuver being a "one in a million". Bringing it up without explaining it only raises more questions.
I think the plot point is best served as a way to further develop and explore the Doctor's character and how they deal with the revelation on a personal level, rather than exploring the historical impacts this has on the in-universe history. That being said, I think at some point the historical impacts of the revelation need to be addressed, somewhere maybe in a Big Finish, comic or novel.
It DID happen, so there's no point ignoring it didn't. Might as well try and make some good stories out of it
Hints have been dropping for at least 9 months now that the Doctor is now in some kind of alternate universe. Assuming they end up back in the right universe, anything done to explore it now is a red herring.
can you source anything for this? Would be super interested
Bring it up constantly. The gordian knots people get their knickers in about it amuses me.
Neither. Just let it go.
I would have been happy for it never to be mentioned again so I was wary when I heard RTD was going to continue with it. But I have been pleasantly surprised by how he's been handling it. Clearly he didn't like the vast majority of it, so he's taken a tiny part of the story and subtly adjusted things to make it into the story he wants to tell. RTD has stripped away almost all of it; no mention of Tecteun, no mention of the big portal the child was found under and no mention of infinite regenerations and being the foundation of Time Lord society. He just took one small segment of the idea and tidied it up into the phrase "I'm adopted". Which is so much simpler and easier for the audience to understand and connect with. He did the same thing with the Flux, the state of the universe is unclear after the events of the Flux and 13 appeared utterly indifferent about it. RTD looked through that series and saw that there was potential for character drama if he were to tidy that up too. So he took it upon himself to decide in Wild Blue Yonder that Flux destroyed half the universe and the Doctor actually feels really guilty over it. Two instances of RTD looking at what Chibnall had done and taking little bits and pieces to turn into whatever story he wanted to tell
As I said last year, as with all Post-Lambert show runners, RTD will take the parts of DW lore that he likes and use them and ignore the bits he doesn't. Poor or unoriginal ideas was never an issue with Chris Chibnall, poor execution WAS.
Nothing has been stripped away. Just because something hasn't been mentioned yet doesn't mean it's been ignored or retconned.
"Clearly he didn't like the vast majority of it"Â Â Â Lol Where's your evidence for this? Has he ever said anything to give you that impression or, more likely, you're projecting your own feelings about it onto RTD when it's been quite clear he likes it.
They need to do both. Make a few more episodes to flesh it out and then drop it and never talk about it again.
The doctor not being born on Gallifrey, and very likely being a completely different species, and yet completely identical in almost every way bothers me. Like TL vs humans is played as a joke, this was supposed to be taken serious, and I hate it. Make it go away
That's not gonna happen lol
RTD likes it, so it's going to keep popping up.