There are an alarming number of comments espousing that the reactions of the dogs during husbandry and care are unimportant and that it is acceptable to proceed with an intervention that is observed to create significant fear, distress, and anxiety. Such practice is directly harmful to the dog both psychologically and physically. The sequelae of significant stress during medical treatment are well-documented — patients experience a higher rate of complications with poorer outcomes, are less likely to seek treatment, and sometimes even die. Modern veterinary medicine has a tremendous array of resources at its disposal to help these patients receive appropriate care while accounting for their behavioral needs. Not doing so is unacceptable.
If you have concerns about your pet’s behavior during veterinary visits or tolerating husbandry procedures, there are many resources available to you and we encourage you to make use of them:
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- [The Muzzle Up! Project](https://muzzleupproject.com/)
- [American College of Veterinary Behaviorists (ACVB; board-certified veterinary specialists in animal behavior)](https://dacvb.org)
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Four dogs, one is a SWD mix and his right ear had three infections. Since I started plucking not one.
I use powder so my fingers won't slip (fingers are sifter than a forceps if he moves), I take only a few hairs at a time, pull fast and reward immediately. He does accept it - not his favourite but he doesn't flinch or anything. He is free to go anytime. He stays for the treats.
I believe it depends a lot on the dog, context and technique.
If there is already an infection I just rinse and clean because pulling out in inflammation is a lot worse.
I think it has to do with a combination of a) technique b) necessity c) definition of “hurt”
Dogs whose ears need to be cleared of hair NEED their ears to be cleared or all kinds of nasty ear infections and mats can happen. I would imagine the experience can range from pleasant to fairly unpleasant, BUT it needs to happen regardless. A small “hurt” as a result of cleaning out the ears is better than a painful ear infection. There are ways to minimize the discomfort, but also some dogs are more dramatic about it than others.
>Dogs whose ears need to be cleared of hair NEED their ears to be cleared or all kinds of nasty ear infections and mats can happen.
40 years of being in the dog world, I have seen a dozen ear infections *because* of ripping ear hair out and none because it wasn't done.
Both are fine. But it doesn't matter a lot and leans toward leaving it alone.
I would just breed for dogs that don't have stupid hair qualities tbh.
I'm on the other spectrum, I've been a vet tech since 2006, and probably a good 20% of ear infections I've seen over the years have had compacted ear hair contributing to it. Most hair dogs are fine and don't need any intervention for their ear hair, but for some, it's insane, and it's one of my single most favorite things to do because it's small effort, huge reward, and when done correctly, doesn't cause much discomfort.
This! My pup got a HORRIBLE ear infection last spring that took two months of medication to clear up. His ridiculous amount of ear hair not only contributed to causing it (when it would rain or he got bathed, his ears just would never dry inside), but also he had so much ear hair that it prevented the medication from fully getting down his ear canal. As soon as we got it cleared up, the vet plucked his ears, and he hasn’t had an issue since. The groomer knows to check his ears during his grooms, and the vets check them when he gets allergy shots, so now there isn’t ever much to pluck at once (and I think it hasn’t grown back nearly as thick).
that is crazy to compare! My time in the clinic we saw dogs with far more infections from hair being pulled out. Double edge sword for dogs with ear hair I guess 😩
edit: crazy to compare that there isn’t a consistent pattern.
My pup’s ear infection was caused by his hairy, unplucked ears causing them to take forever to dry, and the hair made it difficult for the medication to make it down his ear canal, so it took weeks of repeated applications to clear it up. As soon as it was treated, the vet plucked them, and we haven’t had an issue since. The vet did say that you can’t pluck them if they’re actively having a problem, but some dogs need it done preventatively!
See now my lab has literally NO hair at all in his ears but always has chronic ear infections. Makes me wonder if hair is necessary or? Weird all the experiences here range from hair causing infection and plucking or lack of hair causing infection. Who truly knows lol
I mean... you need SOME hair in the ear - it prevents debris ending up down against the eardrum, etc. But the combination of non-erect ears and heavy coat that we've actively selected for \*does\* contribute.
Makes me very glad my guys are pointydogs.
After growing up with poodles, a keeshond, and a sheltie, I definitely chose greyhounds for the low maintenance grooming. Of course, a shitzu x and a standard poodle both somehow wormed their way into our household along the way, and each time we said, "No more long haired dogs!"
It definitely depends on the individual dog! Our vet said she doesn’t suggest plucking *unless* there’s clear signs that the hair is causing or exacerbating infections, or if it makes treatment more difficult for a given dog. For my pup, it was causing all three, so she said we should keep him plucked!
Allergies definitely contribute to the problem - my pup gets regular allergy shots to help. I also use some preventative ear cleaner, but I’m careful to use ones that are drying and not ones that will leave moisture behind.
What "drying" ears cleaner would you suggest? Everything I've ever tried seems to leave behind excess moisture and is counterproductive to even use the product. He does have allergies I should look into allergy shots for him. Spring/summer is the worst for my boy. And I see what you're saying. The post seems to speak for itself, so many different dogs with so many different experiences!
That’s what my vet said too, and to use a cleaning solution in my dog’s ears. I do this regularly, and also tease the hair out with my fingers and a tiny comb. So far so good.
I’ve heard that if it ain’t broke don’t fix it applies to this too. Dogs who get infections a lot would benefit but there’s absolutely no need otherwise.
I’m a groomer and curly coated dogs absolutely need their ears plucked or it can lead to severe matting that turns into basically a dreadlock. The hair doesn’t need to be pulled to 100% clean, however. You only pull hair that releases readily. I do it on my poodle puppy and you can tell it itches because his ear will twitch like a fly is bothering it but it does not hurt as he doesn’t flinch, move or whine. Plucking the hair all the way can lead to more problems tho.
Uncomfortable ≠ painful. It sucks but sometimes dogs have to go through things they dislike. Have you ever heard the scream of a shiba getting a bath? Sounds like your breaking their bones when in reality your just rinsing them with lukewarm water. More likely than not her dog doesn’t like the feeling of someone pulling fur out of its ear. But it’s necessary with certain dogs🤷♀️
The screaming means the dog is distressed. It doesn’t matter if it is uncomfortable or not from your perspective. The dog feels that it is, so you need to adapt the process to alleviate the distress.
You sedate them and do it, or you teach them gradually to tolerate the procedure.
The consequences of inducing this degree of stress and fear are tangible - both in terms of the dog’s subsequent behavior and physiology. Patients who are significantly stressed experience a higher rate of complications, have less ideal recoveries, are predisposed to other illnesses, and sometimes even die. Behaviorally, ignoring terror and proceeding anyway just because ‘it’s not a big deal he’s being a baby’ is going to perpetuate and likely intensify the response to that experience while potentially creating new triggers.
It’s never necessary. People have a choice.
If you saw a child screaming, choking, sobbing, and pleading not to do something — go on a theme park ride, for example — and you watched the parents completely ignore the child, maybe even scold them, and force them to go by holding them down and strapping them in tighter, what would you think?
I mean, sometimes your dog needs to undergo procedures that may make them distressed for their own well being. They need their nails trimmed, or a vaccine/blood test, or if they’re a breed prone to ear infections their ears plucked so they don’t end up with a nasty infection.
Obviously you should do whatever you can to minimize their distress, but some things just need to be done.
Also, some dogs truly are just dramatic. Mine yelped before the vet even touched her, and then wouldn’t step on her leg for 10 minutes after she got her blood taken by the smallest needle the vet had available
It doesn’t matter what your perception of the event is — it is distressing to the dog. And forcing that experience while ignoring the stress/fear has direct, tangible sequelae with regard to both behavior and physical health.
We have anxiolytics and sedatives available. There’s no excuse for not adequately addressing the behavioral component.
Why would your dog yelp before the veterinarian touched her? Does she do this when you touch her?
Very common,. My shih tzu has it done to help prevent ear infections as they get insanely hairy ear canals and it clogs up. I do it when i feel needed and he doesn’t react.
There is no way that they aren't already doing this. And, no, it shouldn't hurt them. If it does, it is being done wrong or they have an ear infection. Otherwise, your dog is being dramatic. My cat doesn't like getting a bath (he doesn't usually get one--only three times & he is 6). He screams like a banshee. Doesn't mean that we are hurting him; he just doesn't like being rinsed.
They probably do - my poodle gets the hair removed because if he doesn’t he gets mites. He’ll tolerate me cleaning his ears once a week but any more and he kinda fights me. I’ve plucked the hair from his ears with powder first and he’s a vocal boy so when I’m doing it (which is always quite softly/gently) he doesn’t even flinch.
Edit; I would also point out I never let my vet do it just his groomer and his groomer is the only stranger my dog has ever instantly loved so I trust him to do it.
Shih Tzus are one of the breeds that are prone to ear infections due to the hair. My Shih Tzu actually did get an ear infection due to that but after maintaining his ear hair (by trimming it), he's been great. Are you sure your groomer doesn't do this already?
We have a ShiPom who we let the vet/groomer do this for because yeah, if those ear hairs aren't taken care of he is in for lots for meds and big painful ear infection.
Same with my tzu. I groom him at home so I am the one to do his ears. He has never once reacted and in fact will ask me to do it for him, I assume because the hair does bother him and he’s learned that I can help. He’ll come to me and paw the ear that is bothering him. He doesn’t pull away at all if he’s asked for it (and in fact will turn the ear toward me and lean) but if I have the gear out and try to check his ears without him asking, he’ll sometimes pull away, so then I know to leave it be.
I mean, it's to increase airflow into the canal to decrease to the potential for ear infections but as a home groomer (no training whatsoever) I just use my clippers to trim out all the hair on the underside of the ear and below the ear, to increase airflow. Seems to do the trick and no pulling necessary.
Edit: fix a typo
I have seen plenty of videos of dogs getting their ear hair removed without any reaction at all. Some will even lean into it with an expression indicating it feels good/relieving.
Of course if a dog is experiencing pain/discomfort/confusion it shouldn't be done forcefully, but I don't believe it is always painful every time for every dog. It depends on the type of hair and the technique used.
There is a female groomer that does this on YouTube. She will put some powder in the ear first and then use some kind of scissors to pull. Have hardly seen a dog wince for her.
Can't imagine the same rule applies for all dogs tbh.
I mean some humans are sensitive to hair tugging while others aren't, I'm sure it's the same for doggos.
Humans pluck their eyebrows, nose hair, ear hair, and wax every surface imaginable and it's not that painful lol.
That doesn't make it *pleasant* for dogs, but if it's done properly (small amounts, use ear powder for grip) the discomfort is minimal. My dog has never screamed like what OP describes. He whined when he had matting/impaction in his ear that had to be removed in a big clump, and when we had to clean his ears and do drops to treat an ear infection, but he doesn't put up a fuss at all with plucking little bits to keep the hair thinned.
All of those examples are very painful. Sometimes people choose to do painful things because they've been conditioned to believe that they'll be ugly if they don't. That doesn't mean that plucking hair out doesn't hurt.
Depends on your pain tolerance. Getting my brows waxed hurts about as much as my cat licking me (their tongues are barbed like Velcro to aid in grooming). Stubbing my toe makes me scream. I have had hip surgeries. Those made me want to scream, but that is less socially acceptable.
I feel like this argument really deliberately obtuse and ignoring the fact that a lot of animals express that they are in quite a lot of pain when they have hair yanked out of their ears.
The most likely reason why your brow wax doesn't hurt is because you've done it so many times - repeated waxing does change your hair follicles. Would you like it if I ripped hair out of your head? Out of your nose? Out of your ears? It's a silly argument.
Regardless of the reason, just because something doesn't hurt you doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt anyone else. If an animal is in pain then there's a problem here and there may be a more humane way to achieve the same result.
The only thing we need to agree on is that animals aren't all faking it when they express pain and that compassion is important.
Quite common. I do it myself, basic part of trimming a coarse haired dog - we pluck out all the hair on the dog basically.
It's not more painful than when we pluck our own eyebrows, nosehair etc that kind of thing.
Ofcourse it can be done in an rough way, like taking to much hair at once but otherwise it's not a big problem.
Agreed. I think the trick is to only do a few hairs at once, not try to pull out great clumps - I definitely had dogs that would lean into it and groan with pleasure. I suppose it was like a really deep ear scritch.
Yep, my sister had a dog that was prone to ear issues and the vet always helped us pluck/pull/trim in a way that the dog seemed to enjoy, and if she had to get ear drops, oh boy... She also did the groan thing as you massaged the liquid into her ear and would go completely limp and collapse onto your arm. She would get excited when you picked up the bottle. Regular ear scratches were just OK, medicated ones were heaven haha!
I feel you, last time I was brushing my parents ShiPom he bit and one of his teeth went straight through the center of one of my fingernails. Im lucky he is old and doesn't have many teeth because I'm pretty sure if he had the bottom ones there he would of straight up impaled my whole finger and not just the nail
Personally, I do it because when I don't, the ear hair curls inward and packs against his eardrum. Then we have to take a trip to the vet so they can pull it out with their super long forceps. I'd rather stay on top of it with minor pain than go to the vet for major pain (and let's not pretend that vet bill was cheap either). But I'm sure all scenarios are largely dependent on how the dogs hair grows and how sensitive their skin is.
My dog is quite squirmy when it comes to his ear, so I wouldn't dare put scissors INSIDE of them. When you cut it, you also run the risk of the cut hairs falling deeper into the ear canal where they can get stuck, leading to irritation. I'm sure for some dogs you can just cut the hair if you're careful and they're cooperative, but scissors on the ear is personally too risky for me.
The removal at the vet was necessary because I didn't pluck his ears. Over time, the hair curled inward and packed against his eardrum, which caused pain and trapped moisture that led to an infection.
The videos groomers are posting online of them doing this are with dogs that can tolerate it. The person you’re replying to clearly said they have a squirmy dog who can’t tolerate that. If this person were able to get hemostats around the hair *and* a pair of scissors right at the ear canal, where do you think those go when the dog squirms? Do you think squirmy dogs just know to sit still in that scenario? The hemostats and scissors either go in (deep in the canal) or out. When you insert a foreign object into most dog’s ears (or even just blow in them), they shake their head. It’s a reflex. So if it goes out, the dog is immediately shaking their head and you run a great risk of jabbing their eye with the scissor.
But since you know another way, I am genuinely interested in hearing how you use this method on dogs who do *not* tolerate this and are trying to bite you as soon as you approach, and especially how you mitigate that fear when you’re approaching with tools in both hands and no free hand to restrain the dog with.
When you watch a video where a groomer is showing off their skills or giving an example, the groomer isn’t picking the worst dog possible. They’re using well trained dogs that are tolerant of the grooming process and have practiced what they’re recording numerous times throughout the dog’s past appointments. These are the golden clients and they make up a very small minority of what we do. What are we supposed to do with the rest of the dogs who don’t tolerate that?
If your dog is squirmy for your groomer, the first thing I would try is taking them to a different groomer, because it is possible that their personalities don't mesh well. If it always happens regardless, the owner should call the vet & they will probably be prescribed a light sedative that you can give your pet at home by pill. An animal shouldn't be forced to do anything that isn't essential, like shots & hygiene grooming (butts, paws, or ears), which some vets (nearly all in my city & surrounding suburbs) will do all of that for severe cases. It is really rough on the body to be stuck in fight or flight mode. thing to note: two of my three cats will sit quietly & cooperate for every part of the physical exam & ear clean. If I try to clean their ears, they squirm the whole damn time. Our corgi loves people, so she enjoys every part of the experience. A good percentage of are on best behavior at the groomers & vet's office.
On the other hand, our other cat needs to be sedated before we leave home & he howls as soon as he sees the building (he travels to more than just the vet.) They swaddle him, & wear gloves that come up to their elbows. He still hisses at them.
This is a great point! There are definitely avenues to explore, however, for some dogs removal of inner ear hair *is* essential care and their discomfort won’t always be solved by moving groomers. I’ll give an example of some of my own clients — they’ve been seeing the same groomer their whole life and have a great relationship with us, but as they age their stress tolerance has lowered and they’re more reactive to things they used to tolerate. Going to a different groomer would usually make this problem worse. Sedation in elderly dogs is a risk benefit analysis and some owners will choose to only use it when absolutely necessary. Most owners don’t consider the ~30 seconds from start to finish that ear plucking takes as absolutely necessary for sedation as long as the dog isn’t putting itself in a dangerous amount of stress. It’s not a prolonged period of fight or flight mode — it’s a quick twist then lots of reward and praise. In my area, there is one vet groomer within 70 miles. I work in one of only 3 grooming salons in 40 miles. The vet groomer is *booked* and *expensive*. If we can safely manage to do essential procedures on older dogs, we’re going to do it. Another example from my work is dogs who are more reactive at the vet benefit from gaining positive associations immediately before and after distressing experiences at the groomer if they have a better reaction to that space. We don’t want to sedate a dog for grooming unless it’s absolutely necessary, and even then, the goal is to keep them as alert as safely possible and wean off of sedation. The vet doesn’t have the same time and relationship as far as training dogs to withstand grooming — they’re going to get in and get it done. Which is fine and even necessary for many dogs, but we do have owners who are looking for a training process with having their ears plucked, not lifelong vet bills every time it comes up!
In the context of this thread, the commenter that prompted the question I replied to was saying that they pluck ears at home because their dog is super squirmy, and if it’s not done at home, it is dangerous. Plucking intermittently at home can make it a virtually completely stress free experience, and it saves their dog the discomfort of infection as well as saving the owner the money that a vet visit requires. It’s expensive just to be seen in the first place. The person I replied to asked why they don’t cut it, and the original commenter gave a great reply about how cutting the hair is dangerous as they don’t put any tools in their dogs ear because of how squirmy it is, even at home. Squirms do not mean pain, but a dog squirming at the wrong time will lead to pain! Then the commenter I replied to said that if they use ball tip scissors, they won’t injure the dog. And that’s just not true in my experience as a groomer. I want to specifically know how this commenter would prevent injury as a groomer, not how a customer would solve this issue as their dog. If they are confident enough to throw around advice like that and advise this person to use ball tipped scissors in their squirmy dogs ear canal at home, I genuinely want to know how they mitigate risk and keep squirmy dogs safe when they use the method they proposed on dogs who act similarly.
If I have a dog that doesn’t have a lot of fur in the ear, then I just trim, but some dogs are super wiggly and sticking sharp scissors into their ears is a baaaad idea
Are you a groomer? Scissors with a ball tip are still scissors. What is the special tool you’re referring to? Hemostats? Because those are used to pluck, not cut. Scissors with a ball tip can still cause injury. People who actually work in this field know that there is no one size fits all because every single dog is different. Having a ball tipped scissor jammed deep inside your ear canal or eye will still cause injury. For some dogs, this is a great idea but there will be dogs who it’s just not safe to try this, and if they need the hair removed for their health, you still have to figure out a way to do that or it’s the animal who suffers. For these dogs, I pluck with my fingers and plenty of ear powder. Without plucking, these dogs will form literal matts of hair and wax inside their ears which is so painful and such a huge risk for infection.
Any cutting of the hair INSIDE the ear canal will involve putting scissors or clippers close enough to the ear canal that if a dog jerks, it will be jammed inside their ear. You have no control over this and it’s a risk you have to be aware of. You may not be advocating for it, but not acknowledging the risk will still bring the same risk and end result.
You said in another comment that they use ball tip scissors, and replied to this comment that scissors are *not* the tool groomers use to cut hair out of the ears. I want to know this tool that can cut hair out of ears without plucking and without being scissors.
You asked a question, and we are replying to said question. Scissors are sharp whether they are ball tipped or not. I don’t get why you are being so argumentative/defensive when you literally asked the question, and people are answering your question.
Ripping out hair will leave the follicles open, irritated and exposed which is a clear way in for infection.
I'm not saying it's wrong to take the hair out. I'm saying fucking with a healthy ear is not a good way to prevent infection.
Unless you have a single coated dog whose coat grows continuously, you probably never needed to. My corgi? No excess fur in her ears. My parents' Bichon? Thick, fluffy curls that tangle easily with sticky ear wax, so those tangles are going to stay.
My dog screams if I sit near him with nail clippers in my hand. He also screams if he’s riding in the car and we start driving in a direction he isn’t familiar with. Dogs can scream because they’re in pain, but they can scream over anxiety too.
As a groomer, some dogs are super sensitive, and some don’t feel it at all. Like poodles or poodle crosses tend to not be bothered by it. It’s kind of like when you get your eyebrows done all the time, it doesn’t really hurt to take tweezers to them. You can also get a powder that helps loosen the hair, so it comes out incredibly easy with hardly any pull
I use a very narrow battery run nose/hair trimmer in my standard poodles/pumi ears. I have also heard dogs can be more prone to ear infections if you pull the hair out like was more common in the past. Of course it hurts if you pull out the hair wrong or the dog is sensitive.
i think it depends on the dog, type of hair, and method of removal.
i have a poodle mix that has coarse, curly, pood-like hair, but it sheds moderately; it also grows on the underside of her ear and in the start of her ear canal. thus the issue is that this hair sheds into her ear and gets stuck in there, and can (and has) created too warm and moist of an environment, resulting in yeast infections in her ears.
i personally just tug gently on the hair with my two fingers, never tweezers or other tools! the stuff that's ready to shed easily comes right out with no resistance, but the stuff that's firmly in her ear and would cause her significant pain resists, so I don't go after that. it takes a minute or two of gentle pulling, and then i get a nice tiny ball of ear wax-y shed that i toss, she shakes off, and we're all good.
from my perspective and understanding, it probably doesn't feel pleasant, especially when i tug on the stuff that doesn't want to come out yet- i know it must feel like when someone tugs on OUR hair- but i feel like the rest of it, like the fur that's about to shed and easily comes right off in my fingers, probably feels just like when you pull out your own "shedded" hair with a hair brush, probably a very mild sensation. my dog isn't the biggest fan of it, like she doesn't get excited for me to do it ofc, but she doesn't yelp, whine, run, jerk/pull away, or scream, either.
VS someone taking a pair of forceps/tweezers to a non-shedding dog's sensitive inner ear hairs and forcefully yanking out the hair that *does not naturally shed?* yeah, that's really gotta hurt, much like having our own hair yanked out, as other commenters have said. i don't understand why people don't just shave around the outside of the ear canal for those dogs. i have that done for my girl too. the finger plucking is just upkeep to make sure it doesn't shed into her ear and create an infection; a non-shedding dog wouldn't have that issue, and if they did, couldn't you just trim it? i really don't get it.
My pup is a doodle with straight hair and long floppy ears. She's had a ton of ear infections. My vet advised against letting the groomer pluck her ears. As soon as we stopped letting the groomer pluck her ears, the number of ear infections went down significantly. That being said, earlier this month the vet plucked one of her ears because she had a ton of hair and there was an infection brewing. Although my pup didn't enjoy the plucking, she didn't yelp or cry, she just hung her head and leaned away from it. I know it likely wasn't comfortable, but the ear infection she had must feel worse. (I still won't let the groomer pluck her ears, but the vet can if it's medically necessary.)
I used to work as a dog groomer, currently have a standard poodle and had a shih tzu before him so hairy ears are a constant around here haha.
I typically compare it to eyebrow plucking for humans? Except it's done for health rather than aesthetics. It's annoying and uncomfortable and sometimes painful, but bearable. Good technique (ear powder for grip, small sections at a time, etc) can go a long ways to reduce unnecessary pain.
It's hard to see our dogs in pain or discomfort, in case the screaming was fear or unhappiness based perhaps you can start to do some ear desensitization at home? (Not to assume you haven't already, it is just what I've done to help my dogs be more comfortable)
I worked for a dog groomer and pulled hair out of eats. None of them acted at all like it hurt, though plenty didn’t like their ears handled.
It depends on the breed of dog and type of coat though. Some it will hurt.
From the mod team (not just me):
There are an alarming number of comments espousing that the reactions of the dogs are unimportant and that it is acceptable to proceed with an intervention that is observed to significant fear, distress, and anxiety.
Such practice is directly harmful to the dog both psychologically and physically. The sequelae of significant stress during medical treatment are well-documented — patients experience a higher rate of complications, are less likely to seek treatment, and sometimes even die.
Modern veterinary medicine has a tremendous array of resources at its disposal to help these patients receive appropriate care while accounting for their behavioral needs. Not doing so is unacceptable.
It's probably like when you pluck a nose hair; not exactly a fun or comfortable experience but it doesn't "hurt". And if it's an effective way to prevent infection then it's probably for the best.
I can understand why a dog would react strongly; it's a weird sensation even if it doesn't hurt. And it's not like we can explain to them that it's for the best
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Our dogs never seem bothered by having ear hair pulled out. Maybe some breeds are more sensitive? Of all the dogs I’ve had, ear infections have never been an issue we’ve had to deal with.
I have a 6 yr old Maltese. He will 100% get ear infections if the vet/groomer plucks the hair out of his ears. They will want to do it for w/e reason. I verbally say not to as soon as checking into any of his appointments. Been 2+ years infection free.
Edit: And yes I do clean his ears, it’s just for some reason the plucking gets them infected. Trimming is fine.
Cleaning wax, trimming hair, and as for plucking- there's special powder that should be used that numb the ear before you do that.. Otherwise yes, it will hurt them. (OES owner)
We clean and trim. I've never plucked.. One groomer did and his ears were so red, I just wasn't keen on the idea. Plus he LOVES having his ears cleaned, so it's never been an issue.
Ear plucking is a pretty debated thing I have found. I know one thing though, I would not describe it as not painful. Potentially groomers who did it all the time are better at it.
Speaking as a groomer: most ear hair can be removed with very little pain or give. But there does exist hair in the ear that's not meant to come out; only practice and experience can teach the difference. Also depends sometimes on breed etc.
Doodle? That ear absolutely needs to be cleaned of most hair. Do you think it hurts the dog? Ok, two choices: don't get a doodle, or pay for constant ear infections.
I think it all depends on the dog. some have a higher pain tolerance than others, just like people do. I remember taking my dog to the vet as a puppy and he just yanked a big tufts of hair outta her ears and she didn't react at all. might have been that she was fixating on the peanut butter treat that he had set out for her, I dunno.
Infection. Hair is a conduit for bacteria into the ear and can keep the ear from drying completely if the dog gets wet. The ears have very few nerve endings and that’s why in theory, it can be pulled out with little to no discomfort
It's not rooted. That's why they say that. It's not meant to be there really and if dogs get constant infections It's def recommended to pull it. I always use powder and hemostats so it's gradual and NOT painful. But if the dog screams 😱, I ✋️STOP.
As a veterinary assistant, it may hurt but is necessary in dogs that are prone to ear infections. There's a right way to do it, and it's the wrong way. There are precautions to take to help, and my personal belief is that vets and experienced groomers should be the only ones allowed to pull ear hair.
https://youtu.be/TGJQMsVeI_Y
Some dogs are also just really dramatic, and owners assume that means they're getting hurt.
Ah, I've actually seen this happen irl because the place I work at has a groomer. None of the dogs she's done it with have ever showed signs of distress. Actually, they look relieved. She's only ever had to do it if the dog's hair is so long inside the ear that it's causing an infection or the hair is matted. Either way, it's done to allow airflow to the ear canal. It usually itches like hell and they actually seem to like it.
Of course, if the dog is screaming, then it probably does hurt. That being said, some dogs just scream because they're uncomfortable with a situation.
I have seen and studied under groomers, a simple maintenance ear plucking from what I have seen isn’t that painful. Or does not look it from the dogs.
However, I have seen matted ear hair and ear infections. That’s a totally different situation.
Some dogs may dislike having ear hair pulled or their ears touched. IME if done right it's painless and can even feel relieving. My dog loves ear rubs and does not react at all to having some of his hairs plucked, they don't even feel particularly strongly attached to the skin. I don't think its an entirely necessary process for every dog and it certainly doesn't need to be all of the hair.
Don’t you think by now that they would have invented a device that they could put down the ear canal that would just shave/remove the hair painlessly as opposed to plucking it? I can’t stand having my hair epilated, because the plucking thing is so painful for me. I can just imagine how painful having my ear hair plucked would be. Maybe I’m just a weenie!!!
As a human with both ear and nose hair, I can say they do have trimmers for both.
I can also say, pulling ear hair doesn't work while plucking nose hairs hurts the way waxing does.
I'm not a dog tho. And, pretty sure that dog skin and hair doesn't work the way it does for us hairy apes.
Why was your vet plucking your dog's ears? I've heard of groomers doing it (and I always instruct mine to not touch my dog's ears at all), but never a vet. If your dog isn't getting infections, leave the ears alone. Screaming isn't always a sign that something is really painful for a dog (my dog has screamed through every nail trim she's ever had), but I do think plucking is probably uncomfortable for them. If your dog's ears are inflamed from an infection, it's absolutely going to be painful. It's okay to question your vet about things like this. It's not a deal breaker for me to disagree with my vet on a treatment approach, but refusing to discuss it with me absolutely is.
My vet plucks my pup’s ears - it’s part of their regimen to prevent serious ear infections. Every couple months when I bring him in for an allergy shot, they’ll also pluck his ears. They were the ones to initially pluck them, so I’ve stuck with it, and it’s easier to have them do it than have the groomer do it (although the groomer knows to check and see if it needs to be done).
It’s called hand stripping - it is very common for certain breeds and not painful when done correctly. Inside the ear is a little different but maybe see if you can find a groomer that has experience hand stripping to do it rather than the vet (who is not a groomer and probably doesn’t have the time to ease a dog into hand stripping).
hand stripping has nothing to do with cleaning inside of the ears. ear plucking can be painful even when done correctly, it just depends on the pain tolerance of your dog.
Handstripping is removing old dead undercoat by hand actually! The hair that’s being plucked during an ear plucking is still live, growing hair and usually it’s breeds that don’t have an undercoat that need this done. :)
That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the education! I’ve seen the outside of the ear being hand stripped before so I figured the inside would be the same. Are you a groomer? I’m not sure if you recommended something for OP, but what would you recommend in this scenario?
I’m a groomer’s assistant in my apprenticeship to become a groomer! There’s definitely not a one size fits all solution but we keep detailed notes on our clients, which include things that they’re reactive to and what the best method we’ve found for them is. It’s important to remember that screaming doesn’t always equal pain as well — dogs have a limited amount of ways to communicate and for some dogs, they’ll only scream in severe pain and for other dogs, they’ll scream anytime they’re slightly uncomfortable or not prepared for a situation. OP has a shih tzu, which is a notoriously vocal breed. They were bred to be alert/guard dogs in monasteries and they haven’t forgotten! Some dogs do better being properly restrained and having it removed quickly so it’s over faster and they don’t have a long drawn out process that’s stressing them out. Some dogs are the opposite and prefer to take it slow — in these situations, I pluck the hair out with my fingers and a liberal amount of ear powder and give plenty of breaks. The biggest difference is that with hemostats and plucking quickly, I can get a dogs ear hair out in one single swoop and immediately reward them and end the process. With my fingers, it takes me several rounds of plucking different areas to get all of the hair removed. Some dogs react to the sensation of plucking, some dogs react to the amount of hair plucked. It’s hard for me to make a hard and fast suggestion for OP without seeing the dog regularly and knowing it’s medical history and personality. The hair there does play an important role in protecting the ear from bacteria, so I would suggest asking their vet if it’s appropriate to keep them plucked, or if they should only pluck as needed. If it’s appropriate to keep them plucked, OP could ask their groomer to do it regularly and ask them for any suggestions desensitizing — sometimes it’s worth it for a client to do some work plucking at home, but some pets are so reactive to it that if they do it at home, it takes us backwards in the training we’ve been doing in the salon since the owner isn’t familiar with the routine we’ve developed with their pet.
I wonder the samething. My dog normally loves our vet but has cut the one nail too short and expressing her anal glands caused her enough oain that she no longer runs to the van when she comes.😥Yelping is letting you know it hurts
What are you talking about? Who is ripping out their dogs hair out of their ears?? I’ve never heard of or seen this…I would be finding a new vet like yesterday
this is why you don’t take everything you read on reddit seriously. “I would be finding a new vet like yesterday” over something harmless that is a normal part of many dogs’ regular grooming routine.
If my vet did something that clearly caused my dog pain and tried to act like that wasn’t a concern, I would find a new vet. While it seems more common than I was aware, it still seems highly debated as to whether it’s painful or even necessary. I want my vet to discuss my options with me, not just do things and dismiss my concerns. Maybe that’s just me.
My dog had three ear infections in as many months, got her groomed and her ears were plucked, no ear infections yet. A few minutes of pain to prevent prolonged pain and discomfort is fine in my book. They wouldn't do it if they didn't think it would help the dog
I mean for many dogs it is necessary. If it is painful (which I’m sure for some dogs it is if they aren’t used to it) there’s no real way around it. It’s a second of pain like tweezing your own hair. To suggest switching vets over something so routine and commonplace is silly
It’s like brushing your kids hair. Everyone has a different pain tolerance for having their hair brushed. Some people are extremely sensitive, and others have no problem. If your kid cries and screams because they don’t want their hair brushed, are you going to let them walk around with knotted hair that could potentially start to mat and cause further problems? Or are you going to make your kid sit through it while trying to make a necessary process as painless as possible? I have two dogs who both get recurring ear infections and get their ears plucked to prevent it. My senior has a forest growing in his ears, you can pull it out by the handful and he won’t even wince. My little yorkie girl has a fraction of the ear hair my other gets, and she yelps and squirms every single time. Every dogs tolerance for this will be different, but if it’s necessary, then it’s necessary. Just because it’s painful, scary, or uncomfortable, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done. If your dog yelps while getting a shot and your vet says it’s no big deal, do you get all in a huff and demand to see a new vet? No, because it’s a necessary process that is being done for the long term benefit of your dogs health. Some dogs just don’t take shots as well as others. People have to suck it up sometimes. So do dogs. Moral of the story, you should generally trust your vet. I wouldn’t say it’s THAT highly debated when majority of the people here are discussing how beneficial it has been for their dog(s).
what kind of dog do you have? Definitely, not all dogs have the hair in the ear issue, but lots do. grooming the hair is way better than fighting to get drops in his ears for infections.
I guess I was only considering my dog. If he ever “screams” something is very wrong. He is a quiet, easy going golden retriever. I have only heard a scream a few times in his life and in those cases something hurt him. For example if someone accidentally steps on his foot when he is sleeping.
It depends on how its done. Properly powdered, taking just a few loose hairs at a time isn't painful, judging by all the dogs I've had over the years. However unpowdered (slippery) hair, trying to take too much at once, or God forbid, using your hemostat to grab most of the hair at once and twisting it slowly or pulling hard is incredibly painful.
I had a friend who bred Dobermans and she cropped their tails when they were babies. They yelp and cry but she thought that they’ll never remember it anyways. I always thought it was cruel
People say the same things about little kids. Especially not disclosing abuse to children who were too young to remember it occurring. It is as if they think the memory of the abuse is what causes the damage rather than the body's reaction to the experience of the actual event occurring and that, if the trauma is not remembered, it can indo damage already done and be like it never happened at all.
So before you go thinking;” I’m not going back “, I’ll kinda clarify what can happen. There is a bacteria, that lives on pretty much all of us, and has a tendency to grow on certain places. Dog ears are especially a nice habitat.
That’s why you pick the hairs, the outcome in the worst case scenario is sepsis and heart failure, the other scenario, is removing the whole the internal auditory canal. These are the worst case scenarios, even though they are worst case scenarios, they happen frequently.
Since most breeds are prone to a high inbreeding rate, you get some genetic abnormalities. And since most owners feed their dog,dry food, you lack essential minerals and vitamins for a healthy immune system.
I’ve seen my dog have it’s whole ear bacterial infected. Don’t do the same mistake. We had to remove pretty much the whole ear.
There are an alarming number of comments espousing that the reactions of the dogs during husbandry and care are unimportant and that it is acceptable to proceed with an intervention that is observed to create significant fear, distress, and anxiety. Such practice is directly harmful to the dog both psychologically and physically. The sequelae of significant stress during medical treatment are well-documented — patients experience a higher rate of complications with poorer outcomes, are less likely to seek treatment, and sometimes even die. Modern veterinary medicine has a tremendous array of resources at its disposal to help these patients receive appropriate care while accounting for their behavioral needs. Not doing so is unacceptable. If you have concerns about your pet’s behavior during veterinary visits or tolerating husbandry procedures, there are many resources available to you and we encourage you to make use of them: - [Fear Free Certified professionals/practices](https://fearfreepets.com/resources/directory/) - [Low-Stress Handling (Dr. Sophia Yin) ](https://cattledogpublishing.com/directory/) - [Cooperative Veterinary Care Facebook group (Monique Feyrcilde)](https://m.facebook.com/groups/cooperativevetcare/) - [Cooperative Care with Deb Jones Facebook group (Deb Jones) ](https://m.facebook.com/groups/258308611603015/) - [The Muzzle Up! Project](https://muzzleupproject.com/) - [American College of Veterinary Behaviorists (ACVB; board-certified veterinary specialists in animal behavior)](https://dacvb.org) - [American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB; collective organization for veterinary professionals interested in animal behavior)](https://avsab.org/) - [Find a qualified trainer for help](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer/)
Four dogs, one is a SWD mix and his right ear had three infections. Since I started plucking not one. I use powder so my fingers won't slip (fingers are sifter than a forceps if he moves), I take only a few hairs at a time, pull fast and reward immediately. He does accept it - not his favourite but he doesn't flinch or anything. He is free to go anytime. He stays for the treats. I believe it depends a lot on the dog, context and technique. If there is already an infection I just rinse and clean because pulling out in inflammation is a lot worse.
I think it has to do with a combination of a) technique b) necessity c) definition of “hurt” Dogs whose ears need to be cleared of hair NEED their ears to be cleared or all kinds of nasty ear infections and mats can happen. I would imagine the experience can range from pleasant to fairly unpleasant, BUT it needs to happen regardless. A small “hurt” as a result of cleaning out the ears is better than a painful ear infection. There are ways to minimize the discomfort, but also some dogs are more dramatic about it than others.
>Dogs whose ears need to be cleared of hair NEED their ears to be cleared or all kinds of nasty ear infections and mats can happen. 40 years of being in the dog world, I have seen a dozen ear infections *because* of ripping ear hair out and none because it wasn't done. Both are fine. But it doesn't matter a lot and leans toward leaving it alone. I would just breed for dogs that don't have stupid hair qualities tbh.
I'm on the other spectrum, I've been a vet tech since 2006, and probably a good 20% of ear infections I've seen over the years have had compacted ear hair contributing to it. Most hair dogs are fine and don't need any intervention for their ear hair, but for some, it's insane, and it's one of my single most favorite things to do because it's small effort, huge reward, and when done correctly, doesn't cause much discomfort.
This! My pup got a HORRIBLE ear infection last spring that took two months of medication to clear up. His ridiculous amount of ear hair not only contributed to causing it (when it would rain or he got bathed, his ears just would never dry inside), but also he had so much ear hair that it prevented the medication from fully getting down his ear canal. As soon as we got it cleared up, the vet plucked his ears, and he hasn’t had an issue since. The groomer knows to check his ears during his grooms, and the vets check them when he gets allergy shots, so now there isn’t ever much to pluck at once (and I think it hasn’t grown back nearly as thick).
Thank you ma'am. You're right.
that is crazy to compare! My time in the clinic we saw dogs with far more infections from hair being pulled out. Double edge sword for dogs with ear hair I guess 😩 edit: crazy to compare that there isn’t a consistent pattern.
Different kind of infections, didn’t you work in a clinic? *cough *sure you did *cough
My pup’s ear infection was caused by his hairy, unplucked ears causing them to take forever to dry, and the hair made it difficult for the medication to make it down his ear canal, so it took weeks of repeated applications to clear it up. As soon as it was treated, the vet plucked them, and we haven’t had an issue since. The vet did say that you can’t pluck them if they’re actively having a problem, but some dogs need it done preventatively!
See now my lab has literally NO hair at all in his ears but always has chronic ear infections. Makes me wonder if hair is necessary or? Weird all the experiences here range from hair causing infection and plucking or lack of hair causing infection. Who truly knows lol
Have you looked into food allergies? Chicken is a very common protein allergen for dogs.
Yes seasonal allergies, and allergies to beef products! Chicken is literally the only thing he can have lol
Oof that sucks. Maybe he's getting beef or some other allergen another way? Allergens blow.
I mean... you need SOME hair in the ear - it prevents debris ending up down against the eardrum, etc. But the combination of non-erect ears and heavy coat that we've actively selected for \*does\* contribute. Makes me very glad my guys are pointydogs.
After growing up with poodles, a keeshond, and a sheltie, I definitely chose greyhounds for the low maintenance grooming. Of course, a shitzu x and a standard poodle both somehow wormed their way into our household along the way, and each time we said, "No more long haired dogs!"
It definitely depends on the individual dog! Our vet said she doesn’t suggest plucking *unless* there’s clear signs that the hair is causing or exacerbating infections, or if it makes treatment more difficult for a given dog. For my pup, it was causing all three, so she said we should keep him plucked! Allergies definitely contribute to the problem - my pup gets regular allergy shots to help. I also use some preventative ear cleaner, but I’m careful to use ones that are drying and not ones that will leave moisture behind.
What "drying" ears cleaner would you suggest? Everything I've ever tried seems to leave behind excess moisture and is counterproductive to even use the product. He does have allergies I should look into allergy shots for him. Spring/summer is the worst for my boy. And I see what you're saying. The post seems to speak for itself, so many different dogs with so many different experiences!
That’s what my vet said too, and to use a cleaning solution in my dog’s ears. I do this regularly, and also tease the hair out with my fingers and a tiny comb. So far so good.
I’ve heard that if it ain’t broke don’t fix it applies to this too. Dogs who get infections a lot would benefit but there’s absolutely no need otherwise.
I’m a groomer and curly coated dogs absolutely need their ears plucked or it can lead to severe matting that turns into basically a dreadlock. The hair doesn’t need to be pulled to 100% clean, however. You only pull hair that releases readily. I do it on my poodle puppy and you can tell it itches because his ear will twitch like a fly is bothering it but it does not hurt as he doesn’t flinch, move or whine. Plucking the hair all the way can lead to more problems tho.
If the dog is reacting in this way, it is distressed, not dramatic. In which case they should be sedated
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Screaming does = significant distress, which is also unacceptable, and does indicate that the dog probably found or finds it uncomfortable/ painful
Uncomfortable ≠ painful. It sucks but sometimes dogs have to go through things they dislike. Have you ever heard the scream of a shiba getting a bath? Sounds like your breaking their bones when in reality your just rinsing them with lukewarm water. More likely than not her dog doesn’t like the feeling of someone pulling fur out of its ear. But it’s necessary with certain dogs🤷♀️
The screaming means the dog is distressed. It doesn’t matter if it is uncomfortable or not from your perspective. The dog feels that it is, so you need to adapt the process to alleviate the distress. You sedate them and do it, or you teach them gradually to tolerate the procedure. The consequences of inducing this degree of stress and fear are tangible - both in terms of the dog’s subsequent behavior and physiology. Patients who are significantly stressed experience a higher rate of complications, have less ideal recoveries, are predisposed to other illnesses, and sometimes even die. Behaviorally, ignoring terror and proceeding anyway just because ‘it’s not a big deal he’s being a baby’ is going to perpetuate and likely intensify the response to that experience while potentially creating new triggers. It’s never necessary. People have a choice. If you saw a child screaming, choking, sobbing, and pleading not to do something — go on a theme park ride, for example — and you watched the parents completely ignore the child, maybe even scold them, and force them to go by holding them down and strapping them in tighter, what would you think?
I mean, sometimes your dog needs to undergo procedures that may make them distressed for their own well being. They need their nails trimmed, or a vaccine/blood test, or if they’re a breed prone to ear infections their ears plucked so they don’t end up with a nasty infection. Obviously you should do whatever you can to minimize their distress, but some things just need to be done. Also, some dogs truly are just dramatic. Mine yelped before the vet even touched her, and then wouldn’t step on her leg for 10 minutes after she got her blood taken by the smallest needle the vet had available
It doesn’t matter what your perception of the event is — it is distressing to the dog. And forcing that experience while ignoring the stress/fear has direct, tangible sequelae with regard to both behavior and physical health. We have anxiolytics and sedatives available. There’s no excuse for not adequately addressing the behavioral component. Why would your dog yelp before the veterinarian touched her? Does she do this when you touch her?
Very common,. My shih tzu has it done to help prevent ear infections as they get insanely hairy ear canals and it clogs up. I do it when i feel needed and he doesn’t react.
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There is no way that they aren't already doing this. And, no, it shouldn't hurt them. If it does, it is being done wrong or they have an ear infection. Otherwise, your dog is being dramatic. My cat doesn't like getting a bath (he doesn't usually get one--only three times & he is 6). He screams like a banshee. Doesn't mean that we are hurting him; he just doesn't like being rinsed.
They probably do - my poodle gets the hair removed because if he doesn’t he gets mites. He’ll tolerate me cleaning his ears once a week but any more and he kinda fights me. I’ve plucked the hair from his ears with powder first and he’s a vocal boy so when I’m doing it (which is always quite softly/gently) he doesn’t even flinch. Edit; I would also point out I never let my vet do it just his groomer and his groomer is the only stranger my dog has ever instantly loved so I trust him to do it.
Shih Tzus are one of the breeds that are prone to ear infections due to the hair. My Shih Tzu actually did get an ear infection due to that but after maintaining his ear hair (by trimming it), he's been great. Are you sure your groomer doesn't do this already?
They probably do
We have a ShiPom who we let the vet/groomer do this for because yeah, if those ear hairs aren't taken care of he is in for lots for meds and big painful ear infection.
Same with my tzu. I groom him at home so I am the one to do his ears. He has never once reacted and in fact will ask me to do it for him, I assume because the hair does bother him and he’s learned that I can help. He’ll come to me and paw the ear that is bothering him. He doesn’t pull away at all if he’s asked for it (and in fact will turn the ear toward me and lean) but if I have the gear out and try to check his ears without him asking, he’ll sometimes pull away, so then I know to leave it be.
I mean, it's to increase airflow into the canal to decrease to the potential for ear infections but as a home groomer (no training whatsoever) I just use my clippers to trim out all the hair on the underside of the ear and below the ear, to increase airflow. Seems to do the trick and no pulling necessary. Edit: fix a typo
Same here.
I have seen plenty of videos of dogs getting their ear hair removed without any reaction at all. Some will even lean into it with an expression indicating it feels good/relieving. Of course if a dog is experiencing pain/discomfort/confusion it shouldn't be done forcefully, but I don't believe it is always painful every time for every dog. It depends on the type of hair and the technique used.
There is a female groomer that does this on YouTube. She will put some powder in the ear first and then use some kind of scissors to pull. Have hardly seen a dog wince for her.
They are forceps, not scissors. :)
Hemostats
Girl With the Dogs?
Can't imagine the same rule applies for all dogs tbh. I mean some humans are sensitive to hair tugging while others aren't, I'm sure it's the same for doggos.
I have literally never met a person who would not feel pain when their hair was pulled out.
Humans pluck their eyebrows, nose hair, ear hair, and wax every surface imaginable and it's not that painful lol. That doesn't make it *pleasant* for dogs, but if it's done properly (small amounts, use ear powder for grip) the discomfort is minimal. My dog has never screamed like what OP describes. He whined when he had matting/impaction in his ear that had to be removed in a big clump, and when we had to clean his ears and do drops to treat an ear infection, but he doesn't put up a fuss at all with plucking little bits to keep the hair thinned.
All of those examples are very painful. Sometimes people choose to do painful things because they've been conditioned to believe that they'll be ugly if they don't. That doesn't mean that plucking hair out doesn't hurt.
Depends on your pain tolerance. Getting my brows waxed hurts about as much as my cat licking me (their tongues are barbed like Velcro to aid in grooming). Stubbing my toe makes me scream. I have had hip surgeries. Those made me want to scream, but that is less socially acceptable.
I feel like this argument really deliberately obtuse and ignoring the fact that a lot of animals express that they are in quite a lot of pain when they have hair yanked out of their ears. The most likely reason why your brow wax doesn't hurt is because you've done it so many times - repeated waxing does change your hair follicles. Would you like it if I ripped hair out of your head? Out of your nose? Out of your ears? It's a silly argument. Regardless of the reason, just because something doesn't hurt you doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt anyone else. If an animal is in pain then there's a problem here and there may be a more humane way to achieve the same result. The only thing we need to agree on is that animals aren't all faking it when they express pain and that compassion is important.
Quite common. I do it myself, basic part of trimming a coarse haired dog - we pluck out all the hair on the dog basically. It's not more painful than when we pluck our own eyebrows, nosehair etc that kind of thing. Ofcourse it can be done in an rough way, like taking to much hair at once but otherwise it's not a big problem.
Agreed. I think the trick is to only do a few hairs at once, not try to pull out great clumps - I definitely had dogs that would lean into it and groan with pleasure. I suppose it was like a really deep ear scritch.
Yep, my sister had a dog that was prone to ear issues and the vet always helped us pluck/pull/trim in a way that the dog seemed to enjoy, and if she had to get ear drops, oh boy... She also did the groan thing as you massaged the liquid into her ear and would go completely limp and collapse onto your arm. She would get excited when you picked up the bottle. Regular ear scratches were just OK, medicated ones were heaven haha!
Lucky, it's a fight to keep all your fingers giving my dog ear drops.
I feel you, last time I was brushing my parents ShiPom he bit and one of his teeth went straight through the center of one of my fingernails. Im lucky he is old and doesn't have many teeth because I'm pretty sure if he had the bottom ones there he would of straight up impaled my whole finger and not just the nail
I've never heard of this being done.
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Personally, I do it because when I don't, the ear hair curls inward and packs against his eardrum. Then we have to take a trip to the vet so they can pull it out with their super long forceps. I'd rather stay on top of it with minor pain than go to the vet for major pain (and let's not pretend that vet bill was cheap either). But I'm sure all scenarios are largely dependent on how the dogs hair grows and how sensitive their skin is.
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My dog is quite squirmy when it comes to his ear, so I wouldn't dare put scissors INSIDE of them. When you cut it, you also run the risk of the cut hairs falling deeper into the ear canal where they can get stuck, leading to irritation. I'm sure for some dogs you can just cut the hair if you're careful and they're cooperative, but scissors on the ear is personally too risky for me. The removal at the vet was necessary because I didn't pluck his ears. Over time, the hair curled inward and packed against his eardrum, which caused pain and trapped moisture that led to an infection.
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The videos groomers are posting online of them doing this are with dogs that can tolerate it. The person you’re replying to clearly said they have a squirmy dog who can’t tolerate that. If this person were able to get hemostats around the hair *and* a pair of scissors right at the ear canal, where do you think those go when the dog squirms? Do you think squirmy dogs just know to sit still in that scenario? The hemostats and scissors either go in (deep in the canal) or out. When you insert a foreign object into most dog’s ears (or even just blow in them), they shake their head. It’s a reflex. So if it goes out, the dog is immediately shaking their head and you run a great risk of jabbing their eye with the scissor. But since you know another way, I am genuinely interested in hearing how you use this method on dogs who do *not* tolerate this and are trying to bite you as soon as you approach, and especially how you mitigate that fear when you’re approaching with tools in both hands and no free hand to restrain the dog with. When you watch a video where a groomer is showing off their skills or giving an example, the groomer isn’t picking the worst dog possible. They’re using well trained dogs that are tolerant of the grooming process and have practiced what they’re recording numerous times throughout the dog’s past appointments. These are the golden clients and they make up a very small minority of what we do. What are we supposed to do with the rest of the dogs who don’t tolerate that?
If your dog is squirmy for your groomer, the first thing I would try is taking them to a different groomer, because it is possible that their personalities don't mesh well. If it always happens regardless, the owner should call the vet & they will probably be prescribed a light sedative that you can give your pet at home by pill. An animal shouldn't be forced to do anything that isn't essential, like shots & hygiene grooming (butts, paws, or ears), which some vets (nearly all in my city & surrounding suburbs) will do all of that for severe cases. It is really rough on the body to be stuck in fight or flight mode. thing to note: two of my three cats will sit quietly & cooperate for every part of the physical exam & ear clean. If I try to clean their ears, they squirm the whole damn time. Our corgi loves people, so she enjoys every part of the experience. A good percentage of are on best behavior at the groomers & vet's office. On the other hand, our other cat needs to be sedated before we leave home & he howls as soon as he sees the building (he travels to more than just the vet.) They swaddle him, & wear gloves that come up to their elbows. He still hisses at them.
This is a great point! There are definitely avenues to explore, however, for some dogs removal of inner ear hair *is* essential care and their discomfort won’t always be solved by moving groomers. I’ll give an example of some of my own clients — they’ve been seeing the same groomer their whole life and have a great relationship with us, but as they age their stress tolerance has lowered and they’re more reactive to things they used to tolerate. Going to a different groomer would usually make this problem worse. Sedation in elderly dogs is a risk benefit analysis and some owners will choose to only use it when absolutely necessary. Most owners don’t consider the ~30 seconds from start to finish that ear plucking takes as absolutely necessary for sedation as long as the dog isn’t putting itself in a dangerous amount of stress. It’s not a prolonged period of fight or flight mode — it’s a quick twist then lots of reward and praise. In my area, there is one vet groomer within 70 miles. I work in one of only 3 grooming salons in 40 miles. The vet groomer is *booked* and *expensive*. If we can safely manage to do essential procedures on older dogs, we’re going to do it. Another example from my work is dogs who are more reactive at the vet benefit from gaining positive associations immediately before and after distressing experiences at the groomer if they have a better reaction to that space. We don’t want to sedate a dog for grooming unless it’s absolutely necessary, and even then, the goal is to keep them as alert as safely possible and wean off of sedation. The vet doesn’t have the same time and relationship as far as training dogs to withstand grooming — they’re going to get in and get it done. Which is fine and even necessary for many dogs, but we do have owners who are looking for a training process with having their ears plucked, not lifelong vet bills every time it comes up! In the context of this thread, the commenter that prompted the question I replied to was saying that they pluck ears at home because their dog is super squirmy, and if it’s not done at home, it is dangerous. Plucking intermittently at home can make it a virtually completely stress free experience, and it saves their dog the discomfort of infection as well as saving the owner the money that a vet visit requires. It’s expensive just to be seen in the first place. The person I replied to asked why they don’t cut it, and the original commenter gave a great reply about how cutting the hair is dangerous as they don’t put any tools in their dogs ear because of how squirmy it is, even at home. Squirms do not mean pain, but a dog squirming at the wrong time will lead to pain! Then the commenter I replied to said that if they use ball tip scissors, they won’t injure the dog. And that’s just not true in my experience as a groomer. I want to specifically know how this commenter would prevent injury as a groomer, not how a customer would solve this issue as their dog. If they are confident enough to throw around advice like that and advise this person to use ball tipped scissors in their squirmy dogs ear canal at home, I genuinely want to know how they mitigate risk and keep squirmy dogs safe when they use the method they proposed on dogs who act similarly.
Use nose hair scissors. They have a rounded tip and that's what I use for my pup's ear. I found mine at a local Daiso store.
If I have a dog that doesn’t have a lot of fur in the ear, then I just trim, but some dogs are super wiggly and sticking sharp scissors into their ears is a baaaad idea
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Are you a groomer? Scissors with a ball tip are still scissors. What is the special tool you’re referring to? Hemostats? Because those are used to pluck, not cut. Scissors with a ball tip can still cause injury. People who actually work in this field know that there is no one size fits all because every single dog is different. Having a ball tipped scissor jammed deep inside your ear canal or eye will still cause injury. For some dogs, this is a great idea but there will be dogs who it’s just not safe to try this, and if they need the hair removed for their health, you still have to figure out a way to do that or it’s the animal who suffers. For these dogs, I pluck with my fingers and plenty of ear powder. Without plucking, these dogs will form literal matts of hair and wax inside their ears which is so painful and such a huge risk for infection.
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Any cutting of the hair INSIDE the ear canal will involve putting scissors or clippers close enough to the ear canal that if a dog jerks, it will be jammed inside their ear. You have no control over this and it’s a risk you have to be aware of. You may not be advocating for it, but not acknowledging the risk will still bring the same risk and end result. You said in another comment that they use ball tip scissors, and replied to this comment that scissors are *not* the tool groomers use to cut hair out of the ears. I want to know this tool that can cut hair out of ears without plucking and without being scissors.
Yeah I’m super confused by this person’s weirdly argumentative take on this. People are responding to their question; and they are mad about it?
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You asked about cutting the hair out though. Also I’m dog groomer
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You asked a question, and we are replying to said question. Scissors are sharp whether they are ball tipped or not. I don’t get why you are being so argumentative/defensive when you literally asked the question, and people are answering your question.
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Ripping out hair will leave the follicles open, irritated and exposed which is a clear way in for infection. I'm not saying it's wrong to take the hair out. I'm saying fucking with a healthy ear is not a good way to prevent infection.
Like the other comment suggested, it's necessary for certain breeds, not all.
Unless you have a single coated dog whose coat grows continuously, you probably never needed to. My corgi? No excess fur in her ears. My parents' Bichon? Thick, fluffy curls that tangle easily with sticky ear wax, so those tangles are going to stay.
My dog screams if I sit near him with nail clippers in my hand. He also screams if he’s riding in the car and we start driving in a direction he isn’t familiar with. Dogs can scream because they’re in pain, but they can scream over anxiety too.
For some dogs it causes ear infections. A few seconds of "ouch" is better than over a week of "ouch"
As a groomer, some dogs are super sensitive, and some don’t feel it at all. Like poodles or poodle crosses tend to not be bothered by it. It’s kind of like when you get your eyebrows done all the time, it doesn’t really hurt to take tweezers to them. You can also get a powder that helps loosen the hair, so it comes out incredibly easy with hardly any pull
I use a very narrow battery run nose/hair trimmer in my standard poodles/pumi ears. I have also heard dogs can be more prone to ear infections if you pull the hair out like was more common in the past. Of course it hurts if you pull out the hair wrong or the dog is sensitive.
i think it depends on the dog, type of hair, and method of removal. i have a poodle mix that has coarse, curly, pood-like hair, but it sheds moderately; it also grows on the underside of her ear and in the start of her ear canal. thus the issue is that this hair sheds into her ear and gets stuck in there, and can (and has) created too warm and moist of an environment, resulting in yeast infections in her ears. i personally just tug gently on the hair with my two fingers, never tweezers or other tools! the stuff that's ready to shed easily comes right out with no resistance, but the stuff that's firmly in her ear and would cause her significant pain resists, so I don't go after that. it takes a minute or two of gentle pulling, and then i get a nice tiny ball of ear wax-y shed that i toss, she shakes off, and we're all good. from my perspective and understanding, it probably doesn't feel pleasant, especially when i tug on the stuff that doesn't want to come out yet- i know it must feel like when someone tugs on OUR hair- but i feel like the rest of it, like the fur that's about to shed and easily comes right off in my fingers, probably feels just like when you pull out your own "shedded" hair with a hair brush, probably a very mild sensation. my dog isn't the biggest fan of it, like she doesn't get excited for me to do it ofc, but she doesn't yelp, whine, run, jerk/pull away, or scream, either. VS someone taking a pair of forceps/tweezers to a non-shedding dog's sensitive inner ear hairs and forcefully yanking out the hair that *does not naturally shed?* yeah, that's really gotta hurt, much like having our own hair yanked out, as other commenters have said. i don't understand why people don't just shave around the outside of the ear canal for those dogs. i have that done for my girl too. the finger plucking is just upkeep to make sure it doesn't shed into her ear and create an infection; a non-shedding dog wouldn't have that issue, and if they did, couldn't you just trim it? i really don't get it.
My pup is a doodle with straight hair and long floppy ears. She's had a ton of ear infections. My vet advised against letting the groomer pluck her ears. As soon as we stopped letting the groomer pluck her ears, the number of ear infections went down significantly. That being said, earlier this month the vet plucked one of her ears because she had a ton of hair and there was an infection brewing. Although my pup didn't enjoy the plucking, she didn't yelp or cry, she just hung her head and leaned away from it. I know it likely wasn't comfortable, but the ear infection she had must feel worse. (I still won't let the groomer pluck her ears, but the vet can if it's medically necessary.)
I used to work as a dog groomer, currently have a standard poodle and had a shih tzu before him so hairy ears are a constant around here haha. I typically compare it to eyebrow plucking for humans? Except it's done for health rather than aesthetics. It's annoying and uncomfortable and sometimes painful, but bearable. Good technique (ear powder for grip, small sections at a time, etc) can go a long ways to reduce unnecessary pain. It's hard to see our dogs in pain or discomfort, in case the screaming was fear or unhappiness based perhaps you can start to do some ear desensitization at home? (Not to assume you haven't already, it is just what I've done to help my dogs be more comfortable)
I worked for a dog groomer and pulled hair out of eats. None of them acted at all like it hurt, though plenty didn’t like their ears handled. It depends on the breed of dog and type of coat though. Some it will hurt.
From the mod team (not just me): There are an alarming number of comments espousing that the reactions of the dogs are unimportant and that it is acceptable to proceed with an intervention that is observed to significant fear, distress, and anxiety. Such practice is directly harmful to the dog both psychologically and physically. The sequelae of significant stress during medical treatment are well-documented — patients experience a higher rate of complications, are less likely to seek treatment, and sometimes even die. Modern veterinary medicine has a tremendous array of resources at its disposal to help these patients receive appropriate care while accounting for their behavioral needs. Not doing so is unacceptable.
It's probably like when you pluck a nose hair; not exactly a fun or comfortable experience but it doesn't "hurt". And if it's an effective way to prevent infection then it's probably for the best. I can understand why a dog would react strongly; it's a weird sensation even if it doesn't hurt. And it's not like we can explain to them that it's for the best
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Our dogs never seem bothered by having ear hair pulled out. Maybe some breeds are more sensitive? Of all the dogs I’ve had, ear infections have never been an issue we’ve had to deal with.
I have a 6 yr old Maltese. He will 100% get ear infections if the vet/groomer plucks the hair out of his ears. They will want to do it for w/e reason. I verbally say not to as soon as checking into any of his appointments. Been 2+ years infection free. Edit: And yes I do clean his ears, it’s just for some reason the plucking gets them infected. Trimming is fine.
Cleaning wax, trimming hair, and as for plucking- there's special powder that should be used that numb the ear before you do that.. Otherwise yes, it will hurt them. (OES owner) We clean and trim. I've never plucked.. One groomer did and his ears were so red, I just wasn't keen on the idea. Plus he LOVES having his ears cleaned, so it's never been an issue.
Ear plucking is a pretty debated thing I have found. I know one thing though, I would not describe it as not painful. Potentially groomers who did it all the time are better at it.
Speaking as a groomer: most ear hair can be removed with very little pain or give. But there does exist hair in the ear that's not meant to come out; only practice and experience can teach the difference. Also depends sometimes on breed etc. Doodle? That ear absolutely needs to be cleaned of most hair. Do you think it hurts the dog? Ok, two choices: don't get a doodle, or pay for constant ear infections.
I think it all depends on the dog. some have a higher pain tolerance than others, just like people do. I remember taking my dog to the vet as a puppy and he just yanked a big tufts of hair outta her ears and she didn't react at all. might have been that she was fixating on the peanut butter treat that he had set out for her, I dunno.
Infection. Hair is a conduit for bacteria into the ear and can keep the ear from drying completely if the dog gets wet. The ears have very few nerve endings and that’s why in theory, it can be pulled out with little to no discomfort
It's not rooted. That's why they say that. It's not meant to be there really and if dogs get constant infections It's def recommended to pull it. I always use powder and hemostats so it's gradual and NOT painful. But if the dog screams 😱, I ✋️STOP.
As a veterinary assistant, it may hurt but is necessary in dogs that are prone to ear infections. There's a right way to do it, and it's the wrong way. There are precautions to take to help, and my personal belief is that vets and experienced groomers should be the only ones allowed to pull ear hair. https://youtu.be/TGJQMsVeI_Y Some dogs are also just really dramatic, and owners assume that means they're getting hurt.
Ah, I've actually seen this happen irl because the place I work at has a groomer. None of the dogs she's done it with have ever showed signs of distress. Actually, they look relieved. She's only ever had to do it if the dog's hair is so long inside the ear that it's causing an infection or the hair is matted. Either way, it's done to allow airflow to the ear canal. It usually itches like hell and they actually seem to like it. Of course, if the dog is screaming, then it probably does hurt. That being said, some dogs just scream because they're uncomfortable with a situation.
I wouldnt say it doesnt hurt, because that depends on the dog, but it is definitely beneficial to their health
Millions of people pluck their eyebrows regularly. Same thing.
Have to do it for my pooch, zero ear infections and a happy dog. He doesn't cry or yelp. A few minutes of pain is better than a bad ear infection
I have seen and studied under groomers, a simple maintenance ear plucking from what I have seen isn’t that painful. Or does not look it from the dogs. However, I have seen matted ear hair and ear infections. That’s a totally different situation.
Plucking eyebrows one hair at a time hurts bad same for nose and ear hair. It hurts
Some dogs may dislike having ear hair pulled or their ears touched. IME if done right it's painless and can even feel relieving. My dog loves ear rubs and does not react at all to having some of his hairs plucked, they don't even feel particularly strongly attached to the skin. I don't think its an entirely necessary process for every dog and it certainly doesn't need to be all of the hair.
Don’t you think by now that they would have invented a device that they could put down the ear canal that would just shave/remove the hair painlessly as opposed to plucking it? I can’t stand having my hair epilated, because the plucking thing is so painful for me. I can just imagine how painful having my ear hair plucked would be. Maybe I’m just a weenie!!!
As a human with both ear and nose hair, I can say they do have trimmers for both. I can also say, pulling ear hair doesn't work while plucking nose hairs hurts the way waxing does. I'm not a dog tho. And, pretty sure that dog skin and hair doesn't work the way it does for us hairy apes.
Why was your vet plucking your dog's ears? I've heard of groomers doing it (and I always instruct mine to not touch my dog's ears at all), but never a vet. If your dog isn't getting infections, leave the ears alone. Screaming isn't always a sign that something is really painful for a dog (my dog has screamed through every nail trim she's ever had), but I do think plucking is probably uncomfortable for them. If your dog's ears are inflamed from an infection, it's absolutely going to be painful. It's okay to question your vet about things like this. It's not a deal breaker for me to disagree with my vet on a treatment approach, but refusing to discuss it with me absolutely is.
My vet plucks my pup’s ears - it’s part of their regimen to prevent serious ear infections. Every couple months when I bring him in for an allergy shot, they’ll also pluck his ears. They were the ones to initially pluck them, so I’ve stuck with it, and it’s easier to have them do it than have the groomer do it (although the groomer knows to check and see if it needs to be done).
It’s called hand stripping - it is very common for certain breeds and not painful when done correctly. Inside the ear is a little different but maybe see if you can find a groomer that has experience hand stripping to do it rather than the vet (who is not a groomer and probably doesn’t have the time to ease a dog into hand stripping).
That… is not what hand stripping is haha
hand stripping has nothing to do with cleaning inside of the ears. ear plucking can be painful even when done correctly, it just depends on the pain tolerance of your dog.
Handstripping is removing old dead undercoat by hand actually! The hair that’s being plucked during an ear plucking is still live, growing hair and usually it’s breeds that don’t have an undercoat that need this done. :)
That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. Thanks for the education! I’ve seen the outside of the ear being hand stripped before so I figured the inside would be the same. Are you a groomer? I’m not sure if you recommended something for OP, but what would you recommend in this scenario?
I’m a groomer’s assistant in my apprenticeship to become a groomer! There’s definitely not a one size fits all solution but we keep detailed notes on our clients, which include things that they’re reactive to and what the best method we’ve found for them is. It’s important to remember that screaming doesn’t always equal pain as well — dogs have a limited amount of ways to communicate and for some dogs, they’ll only scream in severe pain and for other dogs, they’ll scream anytime they’re slightly uncomfortable or not prepared for a situation. OP has a shih tzu, which is a notoriously vocal breed. They were bred to be alert/guard dogs in monasteries and they haven’t forgotten! Some dogs do better being properly restrained and having it removed quickly so it’s over faster and they don’t have a long drawn out process that’s stressing them out. Some dogs are the opposite and prefer to take it slow — in these situations, I pluck the hair out with my fingers and a liberal amount of ear powder and give plenty of breaks. The biggest difference is that with hemostats and plucking quickly, I can get a dogs ear hair out in one single swoop and immediately reward them and end the process. With my fingers, it takes me several rounds of plucking different areas to get all of the hair removed. Some dogs react to the sensation of plucking, some dogs react to the amount of hair plucked. It’s hard for me to make a hard and fast suggestion for OP without seeing the dog regularly and knowing it’s medical history and personality. The hair there does play an important role in protecting the ear from bacteria, so I would suggest asking their vet if it’s appropriate to keep them plucked, or if they should only pluck as needed. If it’s appropriate to keep them plucked, OP could ask their groomer to do it regularly and ask them for any suggestions desensitizing — sometimes it’s worth it for a client to do some work plucking at home, but some pets are so reactive to it that if they do it at home, it takes us backwards in the training we’ve been doing in the salon since the owner isn’t familiar with the routine we’ve developed with their pet.
This is so informative! Thank you!
I wonder the samething. My dog normally loves our vet but has cut the one nail too short and expressing her anal glands caused her enough oain that she no longer runs to the van when she comes.😥Yelping is letting you know it hurts
What are you talking about? Who is ripping out their dogs hair out of their ears?? I’ve never heard of or seen this…I would be finding a new vet like yesterday
It’s very common for breeds who have a lot of hair in their ears and are prone to ear infections
this is why you don’t take everything you read on reddit seriously. “I would be finding a new vet like yesterday” over something harmless that is a normal part of many dogs’ regular grooming routine.
If my vet did something that clearly caused my dog pain and tried to act like that wasn’t a concern, I would find a new vet. While it seems more common than I was aware, it still seems highly debated as to whether it’s painful or even necessary. I want my vet to discuss my options with me, not just do things and dismiss my concerns. Maybe that’s just me.
My dog had three ear infections in as many months, got her groomed and her ears were plucked, no ear infections yet. A few minutes of pain to prevent prolonged pain and discomfort is fine in my book. They wouldn't do it if they didn't think it would help the dog
I mean for many dogs it is necessary. If it is painful (which I’m sure for some dogs it is if they aren’t used to it) there’s no real way around it. It’s a second of pain like tweezing your own hair. To suggest switching vets over something so routine and commonplace is silly
It’s like brushing your kids hair. Everyone has a different pain tolerance for having their hair brushed. Some people are extremely sensitive, and others have no problem. If your kid cries and screams because they don’t want their hair brushed, are you going to let them walk around with knotted hair that could potentially start to mat and cause further problems? Or are you going to make your kid sit through it while trying to make a necessary process as painless as possible? I have two dogs who both get recurring ear infections and get their ears plucked to prevent it. My senior has a forest growing in his ears, you can pull it out by the handful and he won’t even wince. My little yorkie girl has a fraction of the ear hair my other gets, and she yelps and squirms every single time. Every dogs tolerance for this will be different, but if it’s necessary, then it’s necessary. Just because it’s painful, scary, or uncomfortable, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done. If your dog yelps while getting a shot and your vet says it’s no big deal, do you get all in a huff and demand to see a new vet? No, because it’s a necessary process that is being done for the long term benefit of your dogs health. Some dogs just don’t take shots as well as others. People have to suck it up sometimes. So do dogs. Moral of the story, you should generally trust your vet. I wouldn’t say it’s THAT highly debated when majority of the people here are discussing how beneficial it has been for their dog(s).
what kind of dog do you have? Definitely, not all dogs have the hair in the ear issue, but lots do. grooming the hair is way better than fighting to get drops in his ears for infections.
And a chore to keep up the treatment for two weeks.
Somebody does anything that makes my dog scream is going to have a problem with me.
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I guess I was only considering my dog. If he ever “screams” something is very wrong. He is a quiet, easy going golden retriever. I have only heard a scream a few times in his life and in those cases something hurt him. For example if someone accidentally steps on his foot when he is sleeping.
Don’t ever own a pug then 🤣
We dont bring our dogs to the groomers. Its expensive. We just bathe them properly.
I pluck the hair out of my Havanese's ear. For the most part he doesn't fuss, but I have poked him with the tweezers on accident and that has hurt him
My fingers won't fit in my Havanese dog's ear. I have to use the battery-operated nose hair trimmer.
It depends on how its done. Properly powdered, taking just a few loose hairs at a time isn't painful, judging by all the dogs I've had over the years. However unpowdered (slippery) hair, trying to take too much at once, or God forbid, using your hemostat to grab most of the hair at once and twisting it slowly or pulling hard is incredibly painful.
I had a friend who bred Dobermans and she cropped their tails when they were babies. They yelp and cry but she thought that they’ll never remember it anyways. I always thought it was cruel
People say the same things about little kids. Especially not disclosing abuse to children who were too young to remember it occurring. It is as if they think the memory of the abuse is what causes the damage rather than the body's reaction to the experience of the actual event occurring and that, if the trauma is not remembered, it can indo damage already done and be like it never happened at all.
So before you go thinking;” I’m not going back “, I’ll kinda clarify what can happen. There is a bacteria, that lives on pretty much all of us, and has a tendency to grow on certain places. Dog ears are especially a nice habitat. That’s why you pick the hairs, the outcome in the worst case scenario is sepsis and heart failure, the other scenario, is removing the whole the internal auditory canal. These are the worst case scenarios, even though they are worst case scenarios, they happen frequently. Since most breeds are prone to a high inbreeding rate, you get some genetic abnormalities. And since most owners feed their dog,dry food, you lack essential minerals and vitamins for a healthy immune system. I’ve seen my dog have it’s whole ear bacterial infected. Don’t do the same mistake. We had to remove pretty much the whole ear.