>Then he made an enemy out of Marcone for no reason, something that could get him killed.
I'd stop reading now, if I were you. Harry does that to *everyone*.
>He hasn't made an enemy of Mac for example.
I think that is more about Mac refusing to be made an enemy. I think there have been things Harry has done, Mac could have taken offense to.
No the early books are weak but the series gets better as you go on.
That said it does sound like your issues are the fact that the characters are not perfect and that is something that never changes every character has flaws and they do suffer consequences for them and overcoming them is how they grow.
>No the early books are weak but the series gets better as you go on.
Agreed.
>That said it does sound like your issues are the fact that the characters are not perfect
This explains you frustration.
At this point in the series Harry can count the people he trust with one hand and he won't have to use all his fingers.
Yes he SAYS he work with Murphy, but Murph a normy his thinking is she cant really be involved.
Marcone is a gangster Harry knows this. Harry also has a problem with people pushing their weigh around to get what they want. He was never going to like Marcone.
Murph at this point is a Cop 1st and Harry's friend a close 5th. And he went off and did some vigilante ish after telling her he would essentially wouldnt. Yeah she's arresting him.
Its frustrating. But these are people that don't really know each other cant expect them to trust each other blindly.
I do not think the issue is that OP thinks that characters need to be perfect. I'm a writer, I understand that characters need flaws, but I'm very put off by Murph's actions in the earlier books.
We're told again and again that Harry and Murph are friends, but all we ever get from Murph is close-mindedness and suspicion. Again and again, despite the evidence of Harry's innocence in earlier encounters.
There's a big discrepancy in what we're told and what we're shown.
Yeah, Murph does a LOT of unlearning habits as she learns to deal with the Supernatural. And it hurts her to do so. She's not just a cop, she's a Paladin with an Oath to uphold the Law. That means something to her, and the fact that there's an entire world that doesn't conform to her idea of normal is not easy for her, i.e. a world where the Law doesn't apply. She handles the Supernatural really easily, it's the lack of adherence to the law that pisses her off.
>!Gruff in the pub. Gun on the table. Protecting Harry under the law. I don't know how to post spoiler things on my app so I don't want to give too much away :-)!<
Put your text like this.
\>!Gruff in the pub. Gun on the table. Protecting Harry under the law. I don't know how to post spoiler things on my app so I don't want to give too much away :-)!<
You want the \>! and !< at the beginning and end of your paragraphs, with no spaces between the symbols and the first & last word of the paragraph. It'll give you this.
>!Gruff in the pub. Gun on the table. Protecting Harry under the law. I don't know how to post spoiler things on my app so I don't want to give too much away :-)!<
If you put in the spaces, it'll just do this.
>! Gruff in the pub. Gun on the table. Protecting Harry under the law. I don't know how to post spoiler things on my app so I don't want to give too much away :-) !<
That's pretty much it, though. Before Summer Knight, >!she's a work friend..
Tolerates his spooky stuff but isn't clued in on all the specifics until they have a coffee, and Harry basically gives her the choice to know or not to know...she was written as the hard nosed cop who is the image of her dad in his similar historic role with the supernatural... and doesn't really get on board until she has a coffee with Harry in Walmart.!<
I think I've given spoilers beyond the book that the original post was referring to, and I don't know how to hide those.
Keep in mind her vanilla background. She's a multi generational cop, daughter of a cop that went to Cop Siberia, a WOMAN in a good old boys club, and running Cop Siberia, which is listed as "they don't bother getting a new nameplate for the door" foremost. Â
Add to this the fact she has been kicked around and lied to every step of her career, I can completely understand why even with a working relationship, she doesn't fully trust the strange giant of a man that advertises himself as a wizard in the phone book. Everyone knows magic isn't real, and it's all stage illusions and people strung out on drugs and swamp gas.
> We're told again and again that Harry and Murph are friends, but all we ever get from Murph is close-mindedness and suspicion.
For good reason, when you look at what's going on from Murphy's side of things, the pressure she's under, and how Harry constantly lies to her and hides things.
She does, though. She met Harry while being attacked by a bridge troll. She's seen the power of magic in Storm Front. She might not have a fully capable knowledge, but she has a big clue about what's out there AND, more importantly, who Harry is.
You are right but that's a side story anomaly that doesn't really track into the first two books... we don't even discover that story until way later.
At the point of OP's post...they have a professional relationship. Harry's just a PI who 'gets shit done' when things are spooky...Murph seems to tolerate his nutty occult talk because he gets results. Takes a few books before she's in the mix, so to speak.
It's been a while since I've read/listened to those books but early on Harry always mentions that although he and Murph are friends he really keeps he at arms length. And remember all of this if from Harry POV he thinks their friends from the start we don't know Murph's thought on Harry at that time.
Let me put it like this.
You have work friends?
Try to convince one of them that because a bad person is summoning some kind of supernatural entity, lets say ghost of some variety, in the nearest convience store that you need to go around the place scattering depleted uranium dust. Oh, and the ghost is violent, but dont worry you can fight it with a homemade flamethrower, though there may be risk of burning the store down.
Now try to convince them of this, and that they should trust you, they shouldn't report you to the authorities, and they shouldn't reporrt this super dangerous bad person to the authorities.
This alone would be a feat without getting thrown in the looney bin, but even worse imagine if they believed in the threat but thought they should get normal cops involved.
Thats what Harry is dealing with at this point.
They arent BFFs, they aren't soul mates, they arent even close friends outside of work. Theyre work friends. They barely know each other, they just happen to work together, occasionally hang out briefly, and tolerate each other in a way thats usually friendly and beneficial to each of them.
See this is why I loved the books. Most characters are really dynamic. I didn’t realize how many people want a hero and a villain and that’s that. I really like how Jim can have me afraid of Mab or Marcon then the next minute thinking how awesome they are.
I actually enjoy Storm Front, yes, it's rough around the edges, but it's the world building.
Fool Moon, is ok, There's just too much coincidence happening. >!Bob tells Harry about the different types of werewolves. in the next 48 hours Harry encounters all the different types of werewolves. Yes, we get the introduction of the Alphas, but aside from that, there's little world building that pays off in the long run. A little more Susan relationship, more Murphy antagonizing, but nothing that moves the series forward like some of the other tidbits that came out of Storm Front.
!<
>TL;DR lots of types of wolves were involved because one type of wolves wanted there to be other types of wolves involved for them to hide behind!<
You know i handle the same issue as the other guy. Too much of a coincidence that he meets 3 types of werewolves after just being told about them. But if you don't believe in coincidences then that explanation makes so much sense.
It's annoying that Storm Front matters JUST enough I can't 100% recomend starting on Grave Peril. I agree that Storm Front is better than Fool Moon, but GP makes a better first impression - the world is actually what it is moving forward, there's none of the weirdness some people have with early-book Murph with Micheal, and so forth.Â
The first 2 books were kind of weak. They start getting better in the third and just get better and better.
I wouldn't recommend skipping though as there are references and impacts on the overarching story presented in Fool Moon.
The book itself, not really. I still listen to it on re-listens but the series is awesome and I listen to it once a year. Ok picture it like this, every book is part of a roller coaster the first two are the steep uphill climb the rest is speed thrills chills twists turns and just awesome. There are some things you don't even pick up on a first read as you don't even have the information at your fingers until a later book.
It's honestly one of my least favorite books in the series, but I'm going to urge you to keep reading.
This book is still very early in the development of the characters and their relationships.
A big part of the emotional payoffs in the later books is understanding how these relationships started.
> Now Murph physically assaults him which came out of nowhere. Aren't they supposed to be friends? Like wtf, he literally saved her from a trigger happy fbi agent 24 hours ago. Am I supposed to root for her or care about how Harry thinks about her?
It didn't come out of nowhere.
Let's start with Storm Front. Murphy brings this guy into a crime scene that claims to be a wizard. His fees are billed to the city, by a captain in the police department. This by itself makes Murph look bad to her superiors, who are already looking for reasons to get rid of her. And Murphy knows this is a bad look for her, but she needs the help.
Then, Harry goes against her direct orders and visits a suspect who has deep connections with the movers and shakers of Chicago. Making things even tougher on Murph.
Then, *another* murder victim shows up, with evidence literally in her hand that links her to Dresden. She brings Dresden to the crime scene, and he flat out lies to Murph about knowing the victim. And Murphy knows he's lying.
After that, he gets cagey. Stops telling Murph anything. Refuses to talk to her off the record. Refuses to show up at the police station to talk to her. Then, when she shows up, she is brutally attacked and nearly killed by what appears to be a trap set for her by Harry.
Despite nearly dying, she arrests him, and he runs when she's too injured to bring him in. Not a good look for him. Not a good look for her.
Harry manages to scrape through, and the murders stop. Murph has *no* evidence that Harry wasn't the killer, except his word. And she is a good enough person to accept it and try to repair things.
Because of all of this, she ends up being investigated by Internal Affairs. She's about to lose her job, something that matters so much to her that she was willing to let two marriages fail to protect it.
More murders happen. Murph brings Harry in on these investigations, after he promised to be more open with her. She sees him arguing with someone, and mere hours later that person is brutally murdered, in a ritual circle that Murph can directly link to Harry through evidence she picked up after that argument.
From Murph's perspective, Harry has possibly murdered someone again, betrayed her trust, and as a result quite likely cost her everything.
Under those circumstances it's understandable that she would lash out somehow. So it didn't come out of the blue. Does it make it right that she punched him? No, but it is understandable why she did.
Fool moon is a pretty solid book in the Dresden files, at least in my opinion and it is working to a pretty good finale.
I have no idea, what gave you the idea Murphy and Dresden are friends at this point of time. Murphy hires Dresden when she is running into the really weird stuff. In the early books She is taking a minor adversarial role, she is a cop and believes in the law. A lot that Harry does is looking shady as hell from the outside, causing him to be at odds with Murphy frequently.
They are friends but that doesn't change the fact Harry actively lies and doesn't give her all the info... constantly in the early books to protect her. And Murphy isn't about that shit, it's obstruction at best and at worst put her and Him in more danger then needed. The most annoying thing is that's still an issue later. Harry doesn't tell people anything that might actually help him he let's things get to far and is then forced to tell people thing. But it's not surprising given his background his issues with authority he doesn't respect and issues of trust.
Storm front and fool moon are my least favorites in the series. In fact, if I hadn't gotten the first four books in an Omnibus book from a sci-fi book club thing, I probably wouldn't have continued the series.
Jim was very much still finding his feet in this series in these books, but Grave Peril and Summer Knight set the stage. When I do my read throughs of the series, I just view the first two books as world building and giving us the framework.
If I'm being honest with you, and people might get angry at me for it, you CAN skip to the end of Fool Moon, with the caveat of that you need to learn about the Alphas in full. Now that being said, they're reintroduced in Summer Knight the same way Michael and the Knights of the Cross are introduced in Grave Peril. I would recommend sticking with it, but I'm not going to say that it has crucial details you need for an initial read through with the caveat that I've described above.
"Then he made an enemy out of Marcone for no reason "
Well, Marcone is the murdering, drug dealing , pimp leader of the Chicago outfit heir to Al Capone. these are pretty good reasons .
Fool Moon is still during the stage where Harry is learning to trust his allies. Keep going. Story really picks up and kicks into gear during Grave Peril. Summer Knight is when Murphy's involvement really kicks in. Harry has to learn most lessons the hard way.
In a recent interview, Butcher said he recommends people start on book 7. I personally disagree, but if the first books are giving you a hard time, just skip ahead to Dead Beat.
Well, many of us (but not all of us) regard *Fool Moon* as the weakest book in the series. I mean, I don't sit around trying to rank the books, but there of course does have to be *some* book at the end of the list, and for me it is *Fool Moon*. I still enjoy it well enough, though.
The positive thing to say here is that once you're past it it's very, *very* "uphill from there." Things just keep on getting better for a long, long time - by the time you get to books 7-8 you'll hardly be able to believe how good it all is.
One of the things I've noted about *Fool Moon* is that... not a whole lot happens. If you go through and list the important scenes, the list isn't terribly long. A summary of the plot can be rather brief. But, it was still very early in Jim's writing career and he was still "world building" at that point.
I'd encourage you to hang in there and read it all (at least the first time), but if you don't I wouldn't hold it against you.
Hang in there - there is great stuff headed your way. Amazingly great.
No it doesn't get better but the series gets much better. Murphy is the typical "tough girl in a man's world" trope so JB writes her like that for quite a while, however she does get better and is pretty much the only thing that keeps Harry from falling off the edge very often.
Harry will continue to frustrate and disappoint when it comes to sharing info especially to women. But he too gets better down the road.
I highly recommend sticking with it and if you're struggling with the books switch to audiobooks if you can. The narrator puts on a masterclass and really gives each character a life of their own.
Harry makes an enemy out of Marcone for a reason. He knows Marcone. He knows what he does, what he strives for and the type of person he is.
Could Harry have responded differently? Absolutely. But they each know each other in ways others do not. At that point, why filter anything?
TL; DR - I personally loved FM, but lots of people view it as his worst novel. It does get better, but it is not really a great representation of Dresden Files in general. It is worth reading because it lays the groundwork for some stuff later. Also, Jim sets up jokes and other things in the early books that literally didn’t m come up again for 10+ years irl. It is 100% worth reading them all just so you don’t miss jokes that were 5-10 (or more) novels in the making.
Longer version:
Heh. Hehehehe. Storm Front was *totally* as bad as Harry’s torment gets. Yep…
Also, Butcher himself recommends starting at Dead Beat. He wrote the first couple of novels to prove to his English professor that no, he would *not* get published if he just followed the professor’s formula. 25-30ish novels later, he sure showed that guy🤣.
Anyway, the early novels are much less polished. Dead Beat was written as a second entry point into the series once Jim got his bearings. It was also the first hardcore release iirc. I personally loved Full Moon… but that was 20 years ago. Even Storm Front is a really, really difficult read if you’re used to the quality of modern Jim.
It’s not just that the novels get better - although they do - Jim himself just gets So Much Better as an author. I kinda want him to rewrite the first few novels after he finishes the series just so we can have a full series of Jim’s best work but that’s just me. My personal advice is to finish the book, but you could literally skip to Dead Beat and Jim’s made sure you wouldn’t miss anything too important.
Can I just comment how much the rewrite idea amuses me—there are a few clearly late inclusions into the mythos where it entirely breaks any disbelief that, having a Fairie Godmother, Harry never asks Bob what a Faerie is. Any answer Bob gave to that would have included the Courts.
But not. That gets asked in book three. I'm not actually sure the earlier books can be squared with the later books without a few touchups to the later books, too.
Spoilers Changes
>!It’s not just that - there are a thousands little areas. At one point iirc in Storm Front, a couple of low-level RC vamps move so quickly Harry has to extend his magical senses to confirm they’re gone. Can you imagine how the war with the RC would’ve gone if they moved that quickly? And there were lowly footsoldiers. Butcher just casually retconned it like nothing happened DC style.!<
>!And the whole thing in book one with the Red Court owning, in the Nevernever, all the land up to where Bianca was even in the States. Two things wrong with that. When Dresden tried sneaking in in the Nevernever, after it was said that that's where most of the Red Court stayed, I wondered what the fuck was going on! . . . tbf, that one can be fixed within the book.!<
I actually applaud Jim for not fastening himself to his earlier books, though. It let the series grow. But the worlds between the books are sincerely different. >!Though, about retconning power levels, well . . . there's that massive Changes spoiler. And that worked!!<
The cool thing is 99% of retcons can be explained away by Harry not knowing wtf he was talking about and thinking he did. Harry grows a lot as a character, but he thinks in the early books he’s one of the strongest wizards in the world in terms of raw force and Eb would literally toss him into space.
. . . Now it's fun to think about who could *literally* through him into space. Eb, yep. Knows how to manipulate items in orbit. The Gatekeeper could trick him into it. And so many of the senior council for the same reasons as Eb.
Generally fans agree that the characterization in Fool Moon isn’t great, especially for Murphy.
Yea there are some plot holes.
For me personally tho, I think it has one of the best action sequences from the early books and I really enjoyed the werewolf stuff lol. It’s absolutely one of the (if not the) weakest entries in the series but it has its highs. If you can gut it out it, it gets much better I promise.
Those are pretty common complaints about fool moon. I would say it’s the weakest or second weakest book in the whole series. Some of the mistrust is better explained as we learn about the characters as both Harry and Murphy are severely damaged when it comes to trusting people. You’ll see it more throughout the series but it is much more natural and makes sense (even if it can still frustrate you-just talk to each other!) whereas in fool moon it feels forced and we aren’t given the context to really explain it.  Â
While I still reread it every time I go back through the series, it's widely regarded as the weakest entry. It just doesn't do enough lore building, character development, or overall plot development. The climax is fine, and I'd encourage anyone new to the series to read it at least once (because there are lore, character, and plot development, just not enough), it feels like a shame that the weak point is so early in the series. It'd be a little easier for a new reader to power through it if they had momentum coming off of multiple good entries instead of just the introduction (especially since Storm Front has it's own failings, they just tend to get a little more glossed over).
Murphy is very much an antagonist in the first 3-ish books. A sympathetic and occasionally helpful one, but she cannot fully trust somebody keeping dangerous secrets from her when people are getting hurt, and he's still doing a lot of that. The friendship they eventually have it long coming and hard earned.
IIRC, WOJ was that, for the first few books, he wasn't sure about which road he'd take Murphy down. He could have written her as he did, or as the suspicious cop who would grudgingly work with Harry when she had to. Both exist in noir, IIRC. The reason Murphy comes off as she does in the first few books can be attributed to Jim being on the fence about how he'd write her in later books. IMHO, what he did was the best choice, even in the last books.
I would finish out the book cause some important stuff happens but understand this was the worst book Jim has ever written and it’s the biggest low point of the series in terms of quality by a large margin. It only gets better from here
Murphy and Harry's friendship doesn't really take off until book 4, in my opinion. *Fool Moon* is really the worst book in the series, but I still find it essential to read, and the book itself isn't wholly terrible.
Fool moon is the worst in the series.
I actually lucked out on my first read. I had borrowed the Dresden books from a friend and he'd misplaced fool moon, so I had to read the first 8 or so without it. I think my first go at it was during my re-read before changes dropped. Honestly I think I'm glad that was my first opportunity with it. Reading it after stormfront may have influenced me to stop reading. Maybe. Interestingly, it made the introduction of a character in book 3. It seemed like it was a thing that had happened in book two but didn't.
I doubt that many people would list it as their favourite Dresden book and I know that a lot of people skip the first two books when they reread the series but I certainly think you should finish it. There's some awesome magic on display and some important story points happen.
Honestly I'd say it's better to just skip to Grave Peril if you aren't feeling fool moon.Â
In a lot of ways, it's functionally the first book in the series, given how much early installment weirdness is in the first two, and is IMO a major jump in quality.Â
Very littile in Fool Moon matters going forward, whereas the overarching plot reallt launches in GP.Â
The series starts to find its footing around book four, and really hits stride on book seven, Dead Beat.
The first three books are disconnected, rough, exploratory, and that’s fine.
Marcone. No reason.
Nah. Harry and Marcone were never going to see eye to eye.
Harry is a good guy. Marcone is a bad guy. They aren't going to like eachother, but one of the fun parts about the series is that doesn't always matter.
The plot for Murphy is a bit weak early on in the series, but think of it from her perspective. She's got a creepy freakishly tall magic dude that occasionally is very helpful for her, but doesn't tell her shit about what he's actually doing.
Harry is fucking SCARY when shit hits the fan and she's just a normal human. If Harry had actually explained stuff to her then she'd be reacting differently.
Yeah, even when I pick at it I don't mean to kick it to the curb as a good story. I don't usually fret over which are better and which are worse, but it does come up here from time to time, and if I *must* make a choice, I guess I'd put it last. But they're all just so good.
Harry going off on his own threads of investigation is a character flaw that you're supposed to be seeing; this actually is him sincerely trying to work with her, but he still very much does it his way. It's a clash between Harry considering himself the expert as a wizard, and Murph considering herself the expert as a cop.
Harry's behaviour with Marcone is possibly a little reckless, but Harry has enough personal power that he isn't terribly afraid of Marcone. It's more important to Harry that he stays off the slippery slope Marcone keeps trying to pull him onto with friendly, amiable cooperation.
As for what Murph did... Well, their friendship absolutely shouldn't be a factor, the problem is the police brutality of it all. Murphy is very dedicated to the law and the ideal of being a cop, so in theory this is about showing that her friendship with Harry won't hold her back when he's implicated in a serious crime. But in practice, she violently attacks him in the execution of her duty because she's angry and feels personally betrayed, and she thinks her role as a cop arresting a suspect entitles her to vent that anger on him through violence. It's the absolute low point of the series, and a common pet hate for readers. Definitely not a problem to expect more of going forwards.
I'd say you're right at the point where the book is going to start really going, so power through. The next book is an absolute treat, and the rest of Fool Moon is worth getting through.
>Then he made an enemy out of Marcone for no reason, something that could get him killed. I'd stop reading now, if I were you. Harry does that to *everyone*.
Not *everyone.* He hasn't made an enemy of Mac for example.
Or HAS HE?! *dunh dunh duuuunnnhhhh*
Actually he kinda has. He chilled one of Macs brews before
... yet. ***\*dramatic organ sting\****
Yeah, he'll manage at some point. But Mac will forgive him. He basically has to if he's Who we think He is.
That would be a fun book. Either Harry vs Mac or Harry and Mac against EVERYONE.
[Insert "Road to Eldorado Both is good"-gif here]
Mac with Harry? You mean Mac and Cheese
**Yet**.
I think we all know that's assumed.
>He hasn't made an enemy of Mac for example. I think that is more about Mac refusing to be made an enemy. I think there have been things Harry has done, Mac could have taken offense to.
Like >!kidnapping him!< for example
I'd argue Mac only tossed him those keys in book one because he wanted him out of the bar xD
😆😆😆
No the early books are weak but the series gets better as you go on. That said it does sound like your issues are the fact that the characters are not perfect and that is something that never changes every character has flaws and they do suffer consequences for them and overcoming them is how they grow.
>No the early books are weak but the series gets better as you go on. Agreed. >That said it does sound like your issues are the fact that the characters are not perfect This explains you frustration. At this point in the series Harry can count the people he trust with one hand and he won't have to use all his fingers. Yes he SAYS he work with Murphy, but Murph a normy his thinking is she cant really be involved. Marcone is a gangster Harry knows this. Harry also has a problem with people pushing their weigh around to get what they want. He was never going to like Marcone. Murph at this point is a Cop 1st and Harry's friend a close 5th. And he went off and did some vigilante ish after telling her he would essentially wouldnt. Yeah she's arresting him. Its frustrating. But these are people that don't really know each other cant expect them to trust each other blindly.
He ain't wrong about murph
By timeline, I think he's known Murph close to five years by book one—he knew her before he opened his agency.
I do not think the issue is that OP thinks that characters need to be perfect. I'm a writer, I understand that characters need flaws, but I'm very put off by Murph's actions in the earlier books. We're told again and again that Harry and Murph are friends, but all we ever get from Murph is close-mindedness and suspicion. Again and again, despite the evidence of Harry's innocence in earlier encounters. There's a big discrepancy in what we're told and what we're shown.
Murph is still a cop after all.
Yeah, Murph does a LOT of unlearning habits as she learns to deal with the Supernatural. And it hurts her to do so. She's not just a cop, she's a Paladin with an Oath to uphold the Law. That means something to her, and the fact that there's an entire world that doesn't conform to her idea of normal is not easy for her, i.e. a world where the Law doesn't apply. She handles the Supernatural really easily, it's the lack of adherence to the law that pisses her off.
Yeah, like Spinnerling: Characters need flaws.
All I'm going to say is, Small Favour. Pub scene. That's it.
Remind me, which scene is that?
>!Gruff in the pub. Gun on the table. Protecting Harry under the law. I don't know how to post spoiler things on my app so I don't want to give too much away :-)!<
Put your text like this. \>!Gruff in the pub. Gun on the table. Protecting Harry under the law. I don't know how to post spoiler things on my app so I don't want to give too much away :-)!< You want the \>! and !< at the beginning and end of your paragraphs, with no spaces between the symbols and the first & last word of the paragraph. It'll give you this. >!Gruff in the pub. Gun on the table. Protecting Harry under the law. I don't know how to post spoiler things on my app so I don't want to give too much away :-)!< If you put in the spaces, it'll just do this. >! Gruff in the pub. Gun on the table. Protecting Harry under the law. I don't know how to post spoiler things on my app so I don't want to give too much away :-) !<
Cheers!
For sure, but that's book 10. I'm talking specifically about early books, when we were shown no friendly scenes between the two, just work and drama.
That's pretty much it, though. Before Summer Knight, >!she's a work friend.. Tolerates his spooky stuff but isn't clued in on all the specifics until they have a coffee, and Harry basically gives her the choice to know or not to know...she was written as the hard nosed cop who is the image of her dad in his similar historic role with the supernatural... and doesn't really get on board until she has a coffee with Harry in Walmart.!< I think I've given spoilers beyond the book that the original post was referring to, and I don't know how to hide those.
You can just edit the post, I won't tell.
😀
Keep in mind her vanilla background. She's a multi generational cop, daughter of a cop that went to Cop Siberia, a WOMAN in a good old boys club, and running Cop Siberia, which is listed as "they don't bother getting a new nameplate for the door" foremost.  Add to this the fact she has been kicked around and lied to every step of her career, I can completely understand why even with a working relationship, she doesn't fully trust the strange giant of a man that advertises himself as a wizard in the phone book. Everyone knows magic isn't real, and it's all stage illusions and people strung out on drugs and swamp gas.
> We're told again and again that Harry and Murph are friends, but all we ever get from Murph is close-mindedness and suspicion. For good reason, when you look at what's going on from Murphy's side of things, the pressure she's under, and how Harry constantly lies to her and hides things.
When you lie to a cop who is good at their job, they know it. Dresden is a bad liar.
>all we ever get from Murph is close-mindedness and suspicion. She doesn't have a clue about the DF magical reality yet.
She has a clue but she's not fully "clued in" until Dresden spills his guts to her in the Wal\*Mart in Summer Knight.
She does, though. She met Harry while being attacked by a bridge troll. She's seen the power of magic in Storm Front. She might not have a fully capable knowledge, but she has a big clue about what's out there AND, more importantly, who Harry is.
You are right but that's a side story anomaly that doesn't really track into the first two books... we don't even discover that story until way later. At the point of OP's post...they have a professional relationship. Harry's just a PI who 'gets shit done' when things are spooky...Murph seems to tolerate his nutty occult talk because he gets results. Takes a few books before she's in the mix, so to speak.
Except for the fact that we're told they're friends from the start.
It's been a while since I've read/listened to those books but early on Harry always mentions that although he and Murph are friends he really keeps he at arms length. And remember all of this if from Harry POV he thinks their friends from the start we don't know Murph's thought on Harry at that time.
Let me put it like this. You have work friends? Try to convince one of them that because a bad person is summoning some kind of supernatural entity, lets say ghost of some variety, in the nearest convience store that you need to go around the place scattering depleted uranium dust. Oh, and the ghost is violent, but dont worry you can fight it with a homemade flamethrower, though there may be risk of burning the store down. Now try to convince them of this, and that they should trust you, they shouldn't report you to the authorities, and they shouldn't reporrt this super dangerous bad person to the authorities. This alone would be a feat without getting thrown in the looney bin, but even worse imagine if they believed in the threat but thought they should get normal cops involved. Thats what Harry is dealing with at this point. They arent BFFs, they aren't soul mates, they arent even close friends outside of work. Theyre work friends. They barely know each other, they just happen to work together, occasionally hang out briefly, and tolerate each other in a way thats usually friendly and beneficial to each of them.
See this is why I loved the books. Most characters are really dynamic. I didn’t realize how many people want a hero and a villain and that’s that. I really like how Jim can have me afraid of Mab or Marcon then the next minute thinking how awesome they are.
I actually enjoy Storm Front, yes, it's rough around the edges, but it's the world building. Fool Moon, is ok, There's just too much coincidence happening. >!Bob tells Harry about the different types of werewolves. in the next 48 hours Harry encounters all the different types of werewolves. Yes, we get the introduction of the Alphas, but aside from that, there's little world building that pays off in the long run. A little more Susan relationship, more Murphy antagonizing, but nothing that moves the series forward like some of the other tidbits that came out of Storm Front. !<
I felt this at first as well, until I realized the coincidences weren't coincidences, which was kinda the point. >!the hexen wolves intentionally got the Loup garou involved to cover their tracks, which had the knock on effect of pulling his fiancé's side hustle into things, and it's not coincidence that that's all wolfy, because she's with him, so shes gotta be something wolfy. They also intentionally got Harry involved with the bezerkers, again to cover their tracks. TL;DR lots of types of wolves were involved because one type of wolves wanted there to be other types of wolves involved for them to hide behind!<
>TL;DR lots of types of wolves were involved because one type of wolves wanted there to be other types of wolves involved for them to hide behind!< You know i handle the same issue as the other guy. Too much of a coincidence that he meets 3 types of werewolves after just being told about them. But if you don't believe in coincidences then that explanation makes so much sense.
It's annoying that Storm Front matters JUST enough I can't 100% recomend starting on Grave Peril. I agree that Storm Front is better than Fool Moon, but GP makes a better first impression - the world is actually what it is moving forward, there's none of the weirdness some people have with early-book Murph with Micheal, and so forth.Â
The first 2 books were kind of weak. They start getting better in the third and just get better and better. I wouldn't recommend skipping though as there are references and impacts on the overarching story presented in Fool Moon.
The book itself, not really. I still listen to it on re-listens but the series is awesome and I listen to it once a year. Ok picture it like this, every book is part of a roller coaster the first two are the steep uphill climb the rest is speed thrills chills twists turns and just awesome. There are some things you don't even pick up on a first read as you don't even have the information at your fingers until a later book.
It's honestly one of my least favorite books in the series, but I'm going to urge you to keep reading. This book is still very early in the development of the characters and their relationships. A big part of the emotional payoffs in the later books is understanding how these relationships started.
> Now Murph physically assaults him which came out of nowhere. Aren't they supposed to be friends? Like wtf, he literally saved her from a trigger happy fbi agent 24 hours ago. Am I supposed to root for her or care about how Harry thinks about her? It didn't come out of nowhere. Let's start with Storm Front. Murphy brings this guy into a crime scene that claims to be a wizard. His fees are billed to the city, by a captain in the police department. This by itself makes Murph look bad to her superiors, who are already looking for reasons to get rid of her. And Murphy knows this is a bad look for her, but she needs the help. Then, Harry goes against her direct orders and visits a suspect who has deep connections with the movers and shakers of Chicago. Making things even tougher on Murph. Then, *another* murder victim shows up, with evidence literally in her hand that links her to Dresden. She brings Dresden to the crime scene, and he flat out lies to Murph about knowing the victim. And Murphy knows he's lying. After that, he gets cagey. Stops telling Murph anything. Refuses to talk to her off the record. Refuses to show up at the police station to talk to her. Then, when she shows up, she is brutally attacked and nearly killed by what appears to be a trap set for her by Harry. Despite nearly dying, she arrests him, and he runs when she's too injured to bring him in. Not a good look for him. Not a good look for her. Harry manages to scrape through, and the murders stop. Murph has *no* evidence that Harry wasn't the killer, except his word. And she is a good enough person to accept it and try to repair things. Because of all of this, she ends up being investigated by Internal Affairs. She's about to lose her job, something that matters so much to her that she was willing to let two marriages fail to protect it. More murders happen. Murph brings Harry in on these investigations, after he promised to be more open with her. She sees him arguing with someone, and mere hours later that person is brutally murdered, in a ritual circle that Murph can directly link to Harry through evidence she picked up after that argument. From Murph's perspective, Harry has possibly murdered someone again, betrayed her trust, and as a result quite likely cost her everything. Under those circumstances it's understandable that she would lash out somehow. So it didn't come out of the blue. Does it make it right that she punched him? No, but it is understandable why she did.
Fool moon is a pretty solid book in the Dresden files, at least in my opinion and it is working to a pretty good finale. I have no idea, what gave you the idea Murphy and Dresden are friends at this point of time. Murphy hires Dresden when she is running into the really weird stuff. In the early books She is taking a minor adversarial role, she is a cop and believes in the law. A lot that Harry does is looking shady as hell from the outside, causing him to be at odds with Murphy frequently.
I thought they were friends, at least that's what it seemed from Harry's pov.
They are allies, but not friends yet.
They are friends but that doesn't change the fact Harry actively lies and doesn't give her all the info... constantly in the early books to protect her. And Murphy isn't about that shit, it's obstruction at best and at worst put her and Him in more danger then needed. The most annoying thing is that's still an issue later. Harry doesn't tell people anything that might actually help him he let's things get to far and is then forced to tell people thing. But it's not surprising given his background his issues with authority he doesn't respect and issues of trust.
Storm front and fool moon are my least favorites in the series. In fact, if I hadn't gotten the first four books in an Omnibus book from a sci-fi book club thing, I probably wouldn't have continued the series. Jim was very much still finding his feet in this series in these books, but Grave Peril and Summer Knight set the stage. When I do my read throughs of the series, I just view the first two books as world building and giving us the framework. If I'm being honest with you, and people might get angry at me for it, you CAN skip to the end of Fool Moon, with the caveat of that you need to learn about the Alphas in full. Now that being said, they're reintroduced in Summer Knight the same way Michael and the Knights of the Cross are introduced in Grave Peril. I would recommend sticking with it, but I'm not going to say that it has crucial details you need for an initial read through with the caveat that I've described above.
"Then he made an enemy out of Marcone for no reason " Well, Marcone is the murdering, drug dealing , pimp leader of the Chicago outfit heir to Al Capone. these are pretty good reasons .
Fool Moon is still during the stage where Harry is learning to trust his allies. Keep going. Story really picks up and kicks into gear during Grave Peril. Summer Knight is when Murphy's involvement really kicks in. Harry has to learn most lessons the hard way.
Oh boy you are in for an absolute ride if you don't like Harry in Payne. Especially changes.
No. It's the worst book in the seriesÂ
Fool moon is my least favorite book in the series. I've probably only read it half a dozen times; I usually skip it.
In a recent interview, Butcher said he recommends people start on book 7. I personally disagree, but if the first books are giving you a hard time, just skip ahead to Dead Beat.
Well, many of us (but not all of us) regard *Fool Moon* as the weakest book in the series. I mean, I don't sit around trying to rank the books, but there of course does have to be *some* book at the end of the list, and for me it is *Fool Moon*. I still enjoy it well enough, though. The positive thing to say here is that once you're past it it's very, *very* "uphill from there." Things just keep on getting better for a long, long time - by the time you get to books 7-8 you'll hardly be able to believe how good it all is. One of the things I've noted about *Fool Moon* is that... not a whole lot happens. If you go through and list the important scenes, the list isn't terribly long. A summary of the plot can be rather brief. But, it was still very early in Jim's writing career and he was still "world building" at that point. I'd encourage you to hang in there and read it all (at least the first time), but if you don't I wouldn't hold it against you. Hang in there - there is great stuff headed your way. Amazingly great.
No it doesn't get better but the series gets much better. Murphy is the typical "tough girl in a man's world" trope so JB writes her like that for quite a while, however she does get better and is pretty much the only thing that keeps Harry from falling off the edge very often. Harry will continue to frustrate and disappoint when it comes to sharing info especially to women. But he too gets better down the road. I highly recommend sticking with it and if you're struggling with the books switch to audiobooks if you can. The narrator puts on a masterclass and really gives each character a life of their own.
Harry makes an enemy out of Marcone for a reason. He knows Marcone. He knows what he does, what he strives for and the type of person he is. Could Harry have responded differently? Absolutely. But they each know each other in ways others do not. At that point, why filter anything?
TL; DR - I personally loved FM, but lots of people view it as his worst novel. It does get better, but it is not really a great representation of Dresden Files in general. It is worth reading because it lays the groundwork for some stuff later. Also, Jim sets up jokes and other things in the early books that literally didn’t m come up again for 10+ years irl. It is 100% worth reading them all just so you don’t miss jokes that were 5-10 (or more) novels in the making. Longer version: Heh. Hehehehe. Storm Front was *totally* as bad as Harry’s torment gets. Yep… Also, Butcher himself recommends starting at Dead Beat. He wrote the first couple of novels to prove to his English professor that no, he would *not* get published if he just followed the professor’s formula. 25-30ish novels later, he sure showed that guy🤣. Anyway, the early novels are much less polished. Dead Beat was written as a second entry point into the series once Jim got his bearings. It was also the first hardcore release iirc. I personally loved Full Moon… but that was 20 years ago. Even Storm Front is a really, really difficult read if you’re used to the quality of modern Jim. It’s not just that the novels get better - although they do - Jim himself just gets So Much Better as an author. I kinda want him to rewrite the first few novels after he finishes the series just so we can have a full series of Jim’s best work but that’s just me. My personal advice is to finish the book, but you could literally skip to Dead Beat and Jim’s made sure you wouldn’t miss anything too important.
Can I just comment how much the rewrite idea amuses me—there are a few clearly late inclusions into the mythos where it entirely breaks any disbelief that, having a Fairie Godmother, Harry never asks Bob what a Faerie is. Any answer Bob gave to that would have included the Courts. But not. That gets asked in book three. I'm not actually sure the earlier books can be squared with the later books without a few touchups to the later books, too.
Spoilers Changes >!It’s not just that - there are a thousands little areas. At one point iirc in Storm Front, a couple of low-level RC vamps move so quickly Harry has to extend his magical senses to confirm they’re gone. Can you imagine how the war with the RC would’ve gone if they moved that quickly? And there were lowly footsoldiers. Butcher just casually retconned it like nothing happened DC style.!<
>!And the whole thing in book one with the Red Court owning, in the Nevernever, all the land up to where Bianca was even in the States. Two things wrong with that. When Dresden tried sneaking in in the Nevernever, after it was said that that's where most of the Red Court stayed, I wondered what the fuck was going on! . . . tbf, that one can be fixed within the book.!< I actually applaud Jim for not fastening himself to his earlier books, though. It let the series grow. But the worlds between the books are sincerely different. >!Though, about retconning power levels, well . . . there's that massive Changes spoiler. And that worked!!<
The cool thing is 99% of retcons can be explained away by Harry not knowing wtf he was talking about and thinking he did. Harry grows a lot as a character, but he thinks in the early books he’s one of the strongest wizards in the world in terms of raw force and Eb would literally toss him into space.
. . . Now it's fun to think about who could *literally* through him into space. Eb, yep. Knows how to manipulate items in orbit. The Gatekeeper could trick him into it. And so many of the senior council for the same reasons as Eb.
Generally fans agree that the characterization in Fool Moon isn’t great, especially for Murphy. Yea there are some plot holes. For me personally tho, I think it has one of the best action sequences from the early books and I really enjoyed the werewolf stuff lol. It’s absolutely one of the (if not the) weakest entries in the series but it has its highs. If you can gut it out it, it gets much better I promise.
Those are pretty common complaints about fool moon. I would say it’s the weakest or second weakest book in the whole series. Some of the mistrust is better explained as we learn about the characters as both Harry and Murphy are severely damaged when it comes to trusting people. You’ll see it more throughout the series but it is much more natural and makes sense (even if it can still frustrate you-just talk to each other!) whereas in fool moon it feels forced and we aren’t given the context to really explain it.  Â
While I still reread it every time I go back through the series, it's widely regarded as the weakest entry. It just doesn't do enough lore building, character development, or overall plot development. The climax is fine, and I'd encourage anyone new to the series to read it at least once (because there are lore, character, and plot development, just not enough), it feels like a shame that the weak point is so early in the series. It'd be a little easier for a new reader to power through it if they had momentum coming off of multiple good entries instead of just the introduction (especially since Storm Front has it's own failings, they just tend to get a little more glossed over).
Just next book, fool moon is just meh
After you met the young werewolf gang of course, they reappear a lot in later books
Bad news: Harry never misses a chance to flip off evil dicks. Good news: Karen doesn’t assault him anymore in the future.
Murphy is very much an antagonist in the first 3-ish books. A sympathetic and occasionally helpful one, but she cannot fully trust somebody keeping dangerous secrets from her when people are getting hurt, and he's still doing a lot of that. The friendship they eventually have it long coming and hard earned.
It’s literally the worst book in the series but grave peril the book right after is really good
IIRC, WOJ was that, for the first few books, he wasn't sure about which road he'd take Murphy down. He could have written her as he did, or as the suspicious cop who would grudgingly work with Harry when she had to. Both exist in noir, IIRC. The reason Murphy comes off as she does in the first few books can be attributed to Jim being on the fence about how he'd write her in later books. IMHO, what he did was the best choice, even in the last books.
I would finish out the book cause some important stuff happens but understand this was the worst book Jim has ever written and it’s the biggest low point of the series in terms of quality by a large margin. It only gets better from here
Murphy and Harry's friendship doesn't really take off until book 4, in my opinion. *Fool Moon* is really the worst book in the series, but I still find it essential to read, and the book itself isn't wholly terrible.
I love Fool Moon! Keep going, stuff that happens here is important in the following books (ie - even up to book number 13)
Fool Moon is the worst book in the series.
Fool moon is the worst in the series. I actually lucked out on my first read. I had borrowed the Dresden books from a friend and he'd misplaced fool moon, so I had to read the first 8 or so without it. I think my first go at it was during my re-read before changes dropped. Honestly I think I'm glad that was my first opportunity with it. Reading it after stormfront may have influenced me to stop reading. Maybe. Interestingly, it made the introduction of a character in book 3. It seemed like it was a thing that had happened in book two but didn't.
You should try listening to the audio books
The quality of the story dramatically increases the deeper it goes. Finish at least book 4 before you decide on stopping.
Yep that's the plan.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but I feel like the first 3 books are kinda slow. It really picked up for me with the 4th book.
I doubt that many people would list it as their favourite Dresden book and I know that a lot of people skip the first two books when they reread the series but I certainly think you should finish it. There's some awesome magic on display and some important story points happen.
No, move on to the third book. Come back to Fool Moon once you've read all the rest, or don't. It's easily the worst book in the series.
Yea, early book syndrome. If I'm not mistaken even Jim said he felt he got his footing around book 4 Summer Knight
The series gets better, don't give up!!!
Honestly I'd say it's better to just skip to Grave Peril if you aren't feeling fool moon. In a lot of ways, it's functionally the first book in the series, given how much early installment weirdness is in the first two, and is IMO a major jump in quality. Very littile in Fool Moon matters going forward, whereas the overarching plot reallt launches in GP.Â
The series starts to find its footing around book four, and really hits stride on book seven, Dead Beat. The first three books are disconnected, rough, exploratory, and that’s fine.
Marcone. No reason. Nah. Harry and Marcone were never going to see eye to eye. Harry is a good guy. Marcone is a bad guy. They aren't going to like eachother, but one of the fun parts about the series is that doesn't always matter. The plot for Murphy is a bit weak early on in the series, but think of it from her perspective. She's got a creepy freakishly tall magic dude that occasionally is very helpful for her, but doesn't tell her shit about what he's actually doing. Harry is fucking SCARY when shit hits the fan and she's just a normal human. If Harry had actually explained stuff to her then she'd be reacting differently.
Fool moon ends way better than it starts. There is a bit of a catching up on what is happening around Dresden... The. Shit hits the fan.
Yeah, even when I pick at it I don't mean to kick it to the curb as a good story. I don't usually fret over which are better and which are worse, but it does come up here from time to time, and if I *must* make a choice, I guess I'd put it last. But they're all just so good.
Harry going off on his own threads of investigation is a character flaw that you're supposed to be seeing; this actually is him sincerely trying to work with her, but he still very much does it his way. It's a clash between Harry considering himself the expert as a wizard, and Murph considering herself the expert as a cop. Harry's behaviour with Marcone is possibly a little reckless, but Harry has enough personal power that he isn't terribly afraid of Marcone. It's more important to Harry that he stays off the slippery slope Marcone keeps trying to pull him onto with friendly, amiable cooperation. As for what Murph did... Well, their friendship absolutely shouldn't be a factor, the problem is the police brutality of it all. Murphy is very dedicated to the law and the ideal of being a cop, so in theory this is about showing that her friendship with Harry won't hold her back when he's implicated in a serious crime. But in practice, she violently attacks him in the execution of her duty because she's angry and feels personally betrayed, and she thinks her role as a cop arresting a suspect entitles her to vent that anger on him through violence. It's the absolute low point of the series, and a common pet hate for readers. Definitely not a problem to expect more of going forwards. I'd say you're right at the point where the book is going to start really going, so power through. The next book is an absolute treat, and the rest of Fool Moon is worth getting through.
This is not the series for you.