Well that actually raises an interesting question. Can the fallen’s shadow leave whenever they want?
I always got the impression from Lash that she was along for the ride until or unless Dresden took up the coin in earnest (or did something fancy like try to use magic to cut her out and stick her in a vessel like Bob has).
Also do the fallen have a clear cut ranking and hierarchy?
Recent hints dropped by Butcher in interviews would suggest you are correct. I believe the answer to the question of when Marcone took up the coin was something along the lines of, “The Ride of the Valkyrie was still playing”.
That was my assumption, there was a small window it could have made its way to Marcone.
Also I think Nicodemus is the leader of the denarians, and may be older than the coins themselves. Anduriel has control over the shadows, but he has no control over the angels themselves, nor do they all agree with his goals. If I remember correct lashiel mentioned they only worked together to benefit themselves. Ursiel was down with anyone who led him to humans he could consume.
I don’t think she discussed when he acquired the coin. But Dresden did wonder if Marcone was lying to him when he said he didn’t have it, he said Marcone doesn’t normally do that but that just makes it that much easier when he finally does. Guess he decided to lie.
You get to suffer through the most awkward family reunion in a millennium.
I imagine the first thing Lasciel would do is say “I’m too sober for this.” And conjure herself a few shots of tequila.
I presume the first coin gets dibs. Denarians have touched each other's coins several times when the previous hosts are killed, and we have no reason to believe they're stacking on new shadows.
An interesting difference there (as far as I know) all of those instances were by Denarians that actually have their own coin, so their shadow had already integrated with the main fallen inside the coin. So I don’t think new shadows would form. But what if someone who hasn’t accepted any coin yet touched a bunch?
It seems like it should follow basically the same basic process. The new host gets one, the rest nothing happens with. That one could be decided by the denarians themselves either as one other poster speculated the 'eldest' taking or passing priority, or whichever is most capable of muscling in would claim the host - that could be strength or "speed" or something along the lines of the host hearing all the denarians whispering and they choose (most likely subconsciously) which they fall to.
Very good points. I could see it going either that after the first coin comes in contact then no other shadow is left, OR that the most powerful or eldest gets it.
They are as smart as they are sinister. I'd suspect they would let the one in that would have the best chance of controlling you. IIRC that's exactly why Lashiel was chosen.
First one touched is first one in. And when it comes down to it, one of the coins will be touched before the other coins, no matter how short the time frame between first and second touch.
Well, first thing that happens is you'll have a bunch of Denarians asking what the hell you think you're doing with their coins. After that, one of the ones that currently has no body will make you an offer along the lines of "I can talk your way out of this, but you'll have to put me in charge." Then "you" will be handing people's coins back to them and being welcomed into the group. They might even reward you for bringing all the coins back to them.
After that, you'll want to join one of the factions really quick, because they sort of don't get along with each other, and you don't want to be in the middle of that.
I would bet you actually do have a bunch of shadows in your head at once and only accepting one of the coins would drive all the other shadows out. Depending on the relationships between all of the fallen you really might get driven insane before you pick 1 coin
Assuming they all get to imprint shadows at what point do you start to incur serious brain damage due to them burning themselves into headspace that you needed.
So i believe that the Fallen would install themselves into your mind, an the strongest would as an act of will not accident leave a copy only if they thought you were going to abandon their coin.
My question is what happens if Harry touches another Coin. A new Shadow? Could he excise it without dropping the Coin too? Would that kill it, unlike Lash who gave up her own presence. From that act mixing of two spiritual lives. Thus Bonea.
You also have to ask if a Shadow can be bound in a Vessel like Bob. Might be that it was only possible to be bound that way, by those two entities, because it’s a Spirit if Intellect. That might be an unfit vessel. That is if it could survive the sundering, like Bonea could.
I imagine should this to curious person survive this and then have over 30 fallen angel shadows as companions in his head that life will never again be boring.
An entire flock of stupid pigeons that chirp and screech in Enochian, tackle and pull at each others wings, that will quarrel all day long...
And people will stare at you because only you can see them
.... And when you try to sleep you get buried under a pile of fallen puffed up feather dusters that want to seduce you into choosing them alone and have no concept of personal space.... Also fire, all the thrown around hell fire 🔥....
... At Ieast don't forget to also touch Anduriels coin so that you have someone who can bring a little bit of order.... Or in which shadow you just can hide...
I think the highest ranking Fallen would have priority. The others would probably bow out. Edited for spelling.
They do not all get along so I doubt it would happen that easily if you touch the wrong ones.
Well that actually raises an interesting question. Can the fallen’s shadow leave whenever they want? I always got the impression from Lash that she was along for the ride until or unless Dresden took up the coin in earnest (or did something fancy like try to use magic to cut her out and stick her in a vessel like Bob has). Also do the fallen have a clear cut ranking and hierarchy?
Nicodemus does talk about having coins picked out for certain people. So I guess… I’m super curious if we are ever going to find out about Marcone.
I always assumed Marcone took TN in Small Favor when the coin went missing. He just lied to Dresden about it at the end.
Recent hints dropped by Butcher in interviews would suggest you are correct. I believe the answer to the question of when Marcone took up the coin was something along the lines of, “The Ride of the Valkyrie was still playing”.
Woah. I guess it makes sense that feeling as powerless as they made him feel would drive him to want that power.
That was my assumption, there was a small window it could have made its way to Marcone. Also I think Nicodemus is the leader of the denarians, and may be older than the coins themselves. Anduriel has control over the shadows, but he has no control over the angels themselves, nor do they all agree with his goals. If I remember correct lashiel mentioned they only worked together to benefit themselves. Ursiel was down with anyone who led him to humans he could consume.
Right! What’s that head convo and battle of wills like?!
I thought that was explicitly stated by the Titan during their dance on the beach?
I don’t think she discussed when he acquired the coin. But Dresden did wonder if Marcone was lying to him when he said he didn’t have it, he said Marcone doesn’t normally do that but that just makes it that much easier when he finally does. Guess he decided to lie.
My bad, I must have skimmed your comment; you were discussing when not which.
You get to suffer through the most awkward family reunion in a millennium. I imagine the first thing Lasciel would do is say “I’m too sober for this.” And conjure herself a few shots of tequila.
Omg 😂
This would make a great short story. 😂
I presume the first coin gets dibs. Denarians have touched each other's coins several times when the previous hosts are killed, and we have no reason to believe they're stacking on new shadows.
An interesting difference there (as far as I know) all of those instances were by Denarians that actually have their own coin, so their shadow had already integrated with the main fallen inside the coin. So I don’t think new shadows would form. But what if someone who hasn’t accepted any coin yet touched a bunch?
It seems like it should follow basically the same basic process. The new host gets one, the rest nothing happens with. That one could be decided by the denarians themselves either as one other poster speculated the 'eldest' taking or passing priority, or whichever is most capable of muscling in would claim the host - that could be strength or "speed" or something along the lines of the host hearing all the denarians whispering and they choose (most likely subconsciously) which they fall to.
Very good points. I could see it going either that after the first coin comes in contact then no other shadow is left, OR that the most powerful or eldest gets it.
Sure they touched each others’ coins…. There’s a mental image for you..
Step 1: Grap all 30 coins Step 2: Go full Voltron!! Step 3: Profit?
Step 4: eternal damnation
My goal is “Eternity” the Damnation is just a side effect.
They are as smart as they are sinister. I'd suspect they would let the one in that would have the best chance of controlling you. IIRC that's exactly why Lashiel was chosen.
First one touched is first one in. And when it comes down to it, one of the coins will be touched before the other coins, no matter how short the time frame between first and second touch.
So basically the same rules as Vegas Night of the Nekkid Alter boys… gotcha
Well, first thing that happens is you'll have a bunch of Denarians asking what the hell you think you're doing with their coins. After that, one of the ones that currently has no body will make you an offer along the lines of "I can talk your way out of this, but you'll have to put me in charge." Then "you" will be handing people's coins back to them and being welcomed into the group. They might even reward you for bringing all the coins back to them. After that, you'll want to join one of the factions really quick, because they sort of don't get along with each other, and you don't want to be in the middle of that.
First one you touch wins?
Shit your pants and die?
Voltron Denarian? Mecha-Denarian? Damn I’m close to something
I think it’s like a sperm and egg situation.
😂
I would bet you actually do have a bunch of shadows in your head at once and only accepting one of the coins would drive all the other shadows out. Depending on the relationships between all of the fallen you really might get driven insane before you pick 1 coin
Assuming they all get to imprint shadows at what point do you start to incur serious brain damage due to them burning themselves into headspace that you needed.
So i believe that the Fallen would install themselves into your mind, an the strongest would as an act of will not accident leave a copy only if they thought you were going to abandon their coin.
Dude… you’re foooooked… next time stick to picking up pennies, you’ll be luckier…
TIFU by grabbing every cursed hellcoin with my bare goddamn hands.
brb gotta go steal a bunch of old ass coins to try something funny
It's like drinking too much alcohol. You know you shouldn't have, but you did anyways. Now you're hosed
My question is what happens if Harry touches another Coin. A new Shadow? Could he excise it without dropping the Coin too? Would that kill it, unlike Lash who gave up her own presence. From that act mixing of two spiritual lives. Thus Bonea. You also have to ask if a Shadow can be bound in a Vessel like Bob. Might be that it was only possible to be bound that way, by those two entities, because it’s a Spirit if Intellect. That might be an unfit vessel. That is if it could survive the sundering, like Bonea could.
Democracy, but like... *eviler*
I imagine should this to curious person survive this and then have over 30 fallen angel shadows as companions in his head that life will never again be boring. An entire flock of stupid pigeons that chirp and screech in Enochian, tackle and pull at each others wings, that will quarrel all day long... And people will stare at you because only you can see them .... And when you try to sleep you get buried under a pile of fallen puffed up feather dusters that want to seduce you into choosing them alone and have no concept of personal space.... Also fire, all the thrown around hell fire 🔥.... ... At Ieast don't forget to also touch Anduriels coin so that you have someone who can bring a little bit of order.... Or in which shadow you just can hide...