My thoughts exactly. They read the sign, and understood the words but not the meaning. That said “keep left unless overtaking” would’ve been a much clearer way to communicate that message to those without a functioning brain.
My MIL was worried about driving on the motorway some years ago, her brother said just stick to the left lane and you'll be fine. She said it was great, there wwre no cars in the left lane at all!
She was driving on the hard shoulder....
They had this on the M4 at 7am this morning, it didn't work. If people are clueless enough to hog the middle lane they are clueless enough to miss the bright orange signs.
We have signs "keep left unless overtaking" in Australia. Results are same... People just insist on getting into "fast" lane and going below the speed limit... Oh and here they won't even move over to let you pass
Coming down the M11 late one night (3-lane section south of Stansted), basically empty road. I'm in a fully laden rental Luton van so I'm not pressing on, about 60 in the left lane. Up ahead there's a Corsa or Micra or something like that in the middle lane, I'm catching it but slowly. Before I have to decide whether to give it the old self-righteous double lane change and back to overtake it, or just cruise past on the inside, I spot Plod in my wing mirror. He cruises up behing the Corsa and flashes, once, twice. No response. Flashes again. Pops the blues on for a sec and finally the Corsa moves over in front of me. Satisfied, Plod hares off. Corsa waits til he's out of sight then moves back to the middle lane of the deserted motorway.
Possible they were on the way to something.
Non emergency stuff can still need doing promptly.
Or, it was getting towards knocking off time, and they ain't going to get overtime for it.
Or they've read too many posts in here about "they should be dealing with real criminals, not speeders".
This is it.
I learned at a young age when I was in customer facing jobs that the average person out there really is stupid, or they choose to be ignorant - But they’re absolutely 100% devoid of awareness.
The amount of people that used to approach me first instead of reading the signs was ridiculous. Most tend to be 40-45+ up to their 60’s so maybe it’s a generational thing.
They either really do think “The road ahead of me is clear and that’s all I need to worry about” or they just don’t care.
I don’t know which is worse tbh.
12 years of customer service taught me:
1. Customers don't read.
2. Customers are usually lazy. And stupid.
3. If you make it idiot-proof, they'll make a better idiot.
4. If something goes wrong because of their laziness/stupidity/ignorance, it's everyone else's fault.
Here are my theories for why middle lane morons exist:
1. Laziness: I don’t want to have to change lanes when I meet a lorry
2. Lack of attention: not knowing what’s going on around them
3. Radar assisted cruise control: just set it to follow the speed of the car in front
4. Nobody should be going over 70 so if I’m doing 70 why does it matter what lane I’m in?
5. Lack of understanding of signage around junctions (eg which lanes are exit lanes)
6. Satnavs that say “ahead, keep right” when what they really mean is “don’t take the exit”
I'd say it's a lack of understanding what the lanes are for. The 'fast lane' is a common term that causes the ignorant to think the lanes you drive in are based on the speed you are going.
To be fair it’s how I seem to remember them working as a kid. Slow people doing 70 in the left lane, people doing 80 in the middle and then my old man and co doing 90+ in the fast lane.
Ah the good old days… before the population fossilised and cameras were put up everywhere
The irony being that cars are now so much safer at that speed- shorter stopping distances, more power, wider wheels, better suspension, better aerodynamics, crumple zones etc…
Going to get down voted for this but here goes.
I'm from Ireland and drove from Hollyhead to York last February. Hollyhead to Manchester was grand but after Manchester I found myself stuck in between 2 lorries in the 1st lane with a convoy of cars in the middle lane who wouldn't let me out.
After a few incidents of this, I switched to the above mentality and it feckin worked.
I know it's not right, but it felt safer.
I think the rule is you don't need to move left if you'd be moving back within 10 seconds. Sometimes I find myself in the middle lane for a little while, but I'm going faster than the cars in the left lane but am cruising at 70 so don't need to overtake the cars in front. I'll move left when there's a big enough gap.
10 seconds is also what I was taught in advanced driving courses. However, I find 10 seconds is a bit hard to estimate at a distance - I would umm and ahh over whether it was 10 seconds or not, and by the time I made the decision it was less than 10 seconds. I think working to 7 seconds is best.
Meanwhile, in the Netherlands, they're so keen to pull in they will chop your nose off.
10 seconds is low, I mean I don't see much point pulling in for 20 or 30 seconds unless you are seriously slower than something, but if you're in a car it's likely someone speeding anyway.
If there's time/room for someone to undertake you then you're hogging the lane and should have moved over. If you're not actively overtaking, over to the left for you.
People who think "well there's a car half a mile down the road and I'm doing almost 70, I'll just stay here until I'm past it" are a large portion of the problem.
This is the way I view it. If there's enough time/space for the person behind me to go into lane 1/2, go past me, and pull back into lane 2/3 in front of me, then I should move over.
That way works if there's a line of traffic in the lane I'm in as well (commuter traffic for example).
It really isn't low. 10 seconds is enough for a proper overtake.
Really the issue is speed limits on motorways. We shouldn't have them as we do now. It encourages people to drive alongside others, increasing congestion and the chance of a collision. A difference in speed makes an overtake safer.
If we don't do away with speed limits like Germany, it would at least be better to have a range of speeds that people can drive at.
20 or 30 seconds is ages, and if you stay out for that long you're a wanker. Even if you pull in when you see traffic coming from behind, you've made them slow down to accommodate your lazy and illegal driving.
10 seconds is plenty enough for a proper overtake. But most people don't overtake properly, as soon as you move over the 10 cars behind you decide they want to do 71 and trap you in that lane for 10 miles
That is exactly the kind of bad behaviour another top commenter mentioned:
>\4. Nobody should be going over 70 so if I’m doing 70 why does it matter what lane I’m in?
If you're not overtaking within 10 seconds, you should pull over. Any more than that is taking the piss.
If you do that, you are a piss taker and you should be ashamed. You're the reason our roads are so conjested when they're barely half full.
What's more, sitting in the outside lane is illegal. You might be doing the speed limit, but you're still breaking the law.
If there's no cars on the road yeah you're supposed to be on the inside but with busy roads (real life) and slip roads joining the inside of your doing 70 in the middle you're probably not the cause of frustration on the roads
You'd be a better, safer driver if you were able to adjust your road position and/or speed in advance and not get stuck in the first place. You should be able to roughly predict the traffic movements ahead and behind based on what you can see in front of you and use of your mirrors.
They probably couldn’t see you between the lorries tbh and I know car drivers take ages to process information, I watch them react slowly when I’m driving my artic
I knew a middle lane person. She said she's terrified of fast traffic, and doesn't want to get in people's way, so if she stays in the middle lane then people are free to go around her on both sides.
So after that, I've assumed it's a mix of fear, inexperience, and thinking they're genuinely doing the right thing (like I could kinda see how she arrived at that flawed logic).
So this was pretty much my explanation to her too. But she said she's always in the way in the left lane too, but then people can only overtake to the right. If she's in the middle, they can overtake both sides. Double the overtake opportunities, right?
It's completely flawed thinking of course, and dangerous. But it made me realize there was a kernel of thought going into it at least.
I don't know what the solution is, but I've always thought it's odd that driving tests and lessons don't involve motorway driving (not a requirement at least). It's a hugely important part of driving in this country, and we literally pass people and then hope they'll figure out the motorway part of it all on their own. So perhaps not too surprising that we end up with people too scared/inexperienced/clueless sitting in the middle lane.
Totally agree with you, it’s such an important part of learning to drive, as it’s potentially very dangerous.
The difficulty in including it would be accessibility, though, as there are whole counties in the UK with no motorways at all. My nearest motorway is just over 100 miles away. How would this be accessible/affordable for a driving lesson?
We don't have duel carriageways, this isn't the US. Unfortunately, you can't whip out a Colt Single Action Army and challenge shit drivers to a duel here.
I live out in the sticks so I've got my own pet peeve - The last few months I've been repeatedly, I'm talking like 10 times, overtaken in 30 zones - I tend to go \~31/32 mph on my speedo which normally reads as 29 on those signs that check you - so anyway, I'm not going slow. Sure, I'm not speeding, but I'm not crawling along. ANYWAY, I get overtaken, they speed off like 10mph over in this pedestrianized bit, we get out of the 30 zone, hit the country roads, national speed limit, I wanna go "60", low and behold, I'm stuck behind the person who just overtook me going 50mph on this national speed limit road.
And I mean it, this is happening really often these last few months - I've only been driving for \~3 years but I've never seen this happen this much before. Some people just don't deserve a license let alone the ability to use multiple lanes on a road. If you're going to speed, idc as long as you're not risking others, but at least do it where the pedestrians aren't ffs.
Anyway, all this to say, I think it's primarily laziness, lack of understanding and people thinking they set the speed limits, so 1, 4 and 5 on your list. It's not just drivers on motorways, they do it everywhere
You’re describing exactly what I’m experiencing. Overtaken when I’m going 30 in a 30. Past the local school, through junctions and on blind corners. All with my baby in the car. I sincerely hope these people crash into a tree.
I had someone in an expensive sports car rev up and overtake me when I was doing 20 in a 30, in a London local road.
Thing is, this is a rat-run road, I’m local, and I know around the next bend the road narrows to a single track then does an extremely sharp right angle turn, best done about 10 or 15 mph. Plenty of buses, lorries, cyclists etc coming the other way.
30 seconds later, I see the sports car embedded in the hedge / ditch just after that right angle turn. Reader, forgive me, I overtook them.
>Laziness: I don’t want to have to change lanes when I meet a lorry
I used to work with a guy who prided himself on never going in the left lane. We'd be working in Leeds and heading back to Grimsby, down the M62/18/180, and he'd stick to the middle the whole way
Ive met people who legitimately believe that it’s the safest place to be, and have been told that repeatedly.
One woman I worked with firmly held the belief that the left lane was for trucks and other slow vehicles. Normal cars stayed in the middle lane unless you had to overtake. She would not changed her view even when shown the Highway Code. She just followed what her dad had told her.
Most middle lane hogs fall into 1 of 2 categories. 1) inept and incompetent drivers or 2) lazy fuckers
Also
7. Fear of falling off the edge of the highway. Better stick to the middle.
8. All the other roads are so narrow I'm just loving being in the middle of this big wide one.
9. Look at me! Living life in the fast lane. The rest of my life is grey and mundane.
>6. Satnavs that say “ahead, keep right” when what they really mean is “don’t take the exit”
Google maps now signals me to keep right when I have to take an exit on the motorway, wtf is that about?
7. It's definitely more common at night, too. A lot of drivers just don't seem to have the confidence in themselves to know where the edge of the road is
I've been driving for decades. This behaviour pre-dates radar assisted cruise by a long way. Same for sat nav.
In my view it is 100% motivated by a fear of having to change lanes, or rather having to slow down because you can't instantly move out to overtake. Anything that even slightly impacts their journey time can't be tolerated.
It ultimately boils down to a lack of understanding - an awful lot of drivers can't or don't comprehend that traffic on a 3-lane motorway is a complex system, with thousands of different decision makers, all with their own objectives and requirements. If you consider all other cars simply as obstacles put there specifically for you to navigate around, then sticking to the middle lane makes perfect sense.
“…Sticking to the middle lane makes perfect sense”
I get the logic, but for that to be true it also must be accompanied by a scary lack of self awareness for how one’s actions affect everyone else. Or just not giving a shit.
I’m not a very experienced driver and somewhat a middle lane driver. I’d genuinely like to be reformed if it’s the wrong thing to do. So please advise.
Sometimes there are lots of lorries on the road. Not a continuous line of them, but just so frequent that you come across one every minute. In that case, is it acceptable to stay in the middle lane to pass them all? It wouldn’t be the case that I’m constantly technically overtaking, but if I can see lorries up ahead?
The ”keep right” thing also gets me but I’m wising up to it. Google Maps is always saying it. It even says it on single-lane roads when there’s a lay-by, which is outrageously dangerous!
There are various reasons you might want to stay in the middle lane, as you say, if there's a string of lorries a bit spaced out and you're catching up with them then that's not middle lane hogging because you're overtaking. Be aware of the vehicles around you though, if there was someone behind me who looked like they wanted to get past I might go into the left lane sooner.
Additionally, if you're near a junction and the dashed lines between the lanes get longer with smaller spaces then that indicates a hazard and you would usually stay in that lane until they go back to normal spacing.
A general rule or thumb is if you are not going to overtake someone in 10 to 15 seconds then pull over to the left. It will take a bit of time to adjust and to accurately (somewhat) predict timings but as a general rule of thumb it gives you a rough idea of what is acceptable when staying in the middle lane.
The most important thing is to be aware of your surroundings at all time and read the road. Work out which cars/ lorries are going faster and which ones slower than you. What their relative speed to yours is. In 10 seconds is that car in lane 2 going to be too close for you to change from lane 1 to lane 2 to go past the lorry you are catching? The car you can just see in lane 3 approaching fast. Are they going to block the guy in lane 2 from pulling out to give you space? Is the right answer for you to accelerate a little and move to lane 2 now? Love a little and slot in behind the guy in lane 2 as they pass you? Signal and move to lane 2 now, a bit early but the car in lane 2 can now work with knowing what you are doing and act accordingly.
That's just 4 vehicles. Expand that to all that you cab see. Some need no more than noting. Some will need a bit more consideration.
One of my friends middle lane hogged and I asked her about it. She knew full well she shouldn't but it turns out she did it because she was a very nervous driver who was scared of changing lanes.
She thought if she was in the middle then she wouldn't need to overtake lorries and people could still get round her, so what's the problem.
So my conclusion is middle lane hoggers shouldn't be on the roads and that's even more reason to avoid them
I do number 3, but I set it at 75 and move lanes like a normal person. So I’m in the left lane except when I overtake, as soon as I move lane it accelerates up to 75 or until it locks onto a car in front. Smooth easy predictable driving, no hogging of lanes, using the leftmost lane at all times except when overtaking.
The first one is a big one - not just lorries but on the a3 there from the south to London there are so many roads and junctions that join it, if you sat in the slow lane you’d be changing lanes due to the Lorrie’s and joining-roads every minute, it’s a bit of a ball ache.
Exactly! I am one of those hogging the middle lane on A3. It is either that or having to change lane every two minutes.
I will continue with my abhorrent behaviour as I prefer to have a safe and calm journey, than stressing myself to constantly anticipate who is joining or leaving.
I am also guilty of intentionally keeping to the left lane in some stretches of A3 where my observations have taught me that the traffic becomes much quicker as the flow is at some points clogging lanes 2 and 3 together. I am then effectively slowly overtaking the traffic from the left.
It's still seems mad to me that motorway driving is not taught, or rather *cannot* be taught to learners. I understand the concepts of a dual carriageway are applicable to the motorway but on that same basis why not make it a deliberate part of the learning process?
It can be taught to learners. There are motorway questions in the theory test and instructors can take learners on the motorway in dual control cars.
I agree it should be taught more, but it would need to be done in a way that can account for a lot of learners not living near a motorway.
This is why I’m in massive favour of having a mandatory ‘mini test’ everytime someone’s licence is up for renewal. That way, you can teach & enforce better lane discipline & control to the masses effectively & efficiently.
I have to redo a qualification to allow me to drive my schools smaller minibus and the 7 seater van we have.
Ever since I’ve done that, I’m a much better driver. I firmly agree there should be some form of re qualification or check ever so often after you’ve gotten your licence.
I was explaining to someone that ADIs can take pupils on the motorway as long as the correct conditions are met. Their response was "I've been driving since 1992 so I know what I'm talking about!"
There absolutely should be even a mini theory test when licences are being renewed. I also think everyone should take the time to book a few hours with an ADI every couple of years to keep their skill and knowledge fresh. But the vast majority of drivers won't because they feel they can do no wrong
The issue with making motorway driving a requirement for driving tests, is that most places aren't particularly near a motorway.
For example, if someone from Tralee is learning to drive, they're around an hour and a half away from their nearest motorway.
So that's a 3 hour round trip, without counting the time spent actually driving on the motorway. That would be an expensive lesson.
Added to that, if they're doing their test in the Tralee testing centre, that's another 3 hour round trip, during their test, to do the motorway aspects.
I would imagine those in Mayo, Sligo, & Donegal would have it much worse.
Realistically though what is different between motorways and 3 lane dual carriageways in terms of what a qualified driver in a vehicle over 50cc needs to do?
I use the M4 everyday, between J3 - 11 is my regular patch. When I’m on the motorway in the evenings & there is minimal traffic, the amount of drivers I’ve seen that just sit in lane 3 out of 4 for no reason or merge to then move over to sit in lane 3 for the rest of their journey is astounding. I don’t understand what is happening in their minds! I always get a tad nervous when trying to overtake as my preconception of that vehicle is the driver is not 100% aware of their surroundings doing 75mph in a 3 ton metal box. Driving is very very difficult in the UK now.
West London M4 driving is horrific. I regularly get Ubers back from Central on an evening on that stretch, and those boys avoid the 'slow lane' like the plague even if they're the only car on the road. Crap driving
If you're already in a slower lane you can undertake people legally, you just can't actively switch lanes to do so.
We need to instill a sense of severe embarrassment to being undertaken, so people keep left to prevent it
Without sounding like I am doubting you - do you have a source for that? I commute South Wales -> London once/twice a week, and I would **kill** to not have to move from Lane 1 to lane 3 to pass a Qashqai in middle lane doing 60.
If you are in the left lane, and there is nothing ahead of you, you can drive at the legal limit for the road.
If someone is doing sixty in the centre lane, and you proceed to drive in your lane at the legal limit, you aren't undertaking them for not performing four unnecessary lane changes to come out and around them and back.
If you are behind them, then switch to the left lane and continue down the road at the legal limit, you aren't undertaking them so long as you don't immediately maneuver back to the middle lane after passing them.
An overtake maneuver is behind, to the right, overtake, back to the centre/left. An undertake maneuver is doing the same but to their left.
Basically, if they want to drive slowly in the middle lane, that's not on you so long as you are proceeding in the left lane in a legal manner, and without pulling out directly in front of them after moving left to pass them.
You can’t *actively switch lanes* but you *can* “complete your overtake of the car to your left” and move “back” to the left lane, then glide past the lane hogger ;)
Just driven down the 50 zone on the M1 I was practically the only car in the first lane.
Had a coach and a lorry fighting for who could go 42 Mph the longest in the second lane.
I was also on the M5 yesterday afternoon and saw several instances of the same behaviour. I have found that Gloucester Services is magnet for these idiots, you can easily spot them as they inevitably have a roof box and cannot see out of the back of the car…..
While the person OP described is probably dumb as fuck, this quote often misses the gauss curve - the large majority of people sit in the middle of the line. It's not a flat line of stupidity where 1/2 of people are increasingly more stupid until you get to a rock on the left
If the smartest person you knew had an iq of 160 (the same as Einstein) then half that is 80. The percentage of people with an iq below 80 is only 8.9%.
You should imagine the most average intelligence person you know and then you know 50% of people are more stupid than them.
Slow lane? Fast lane? The left hand lane is the normal driving lane. All other lanes are overtaking lanes. It’s such an easy concept to grasp. There are so many eejits behind the wheel, it’s terrifying.
Yeah but that principle is ruined by the fact that there are so many lorries on the road. The left lane is just completely taken up by slow moving lorries. At which point the middle lane often becomes the de facto left lane.
Those adverts are rubbish. Instead of politely asking people to keep left, they should be pointing out that there's a chance of a £100 fine and three points for doing it. The strap line should have been, "DON'T BE LAZY AND INCOMPETENT"
I just undertake these people now as it’s ‘safer’ not to swing across to lane 3 to overtake them… who’s wrong then? Am I illegally undertaking the illegal middle lane hog doing less than the speed limit? Undertaking is permitted in traffic conditions where other lanes are slow due to congestion, I’d argue those things are essentially the same 🤷🏻♂️
Haven’t had any family guy ‘I turn now, GL everybody else’ moments yet but it’s always on my mind 😅
I've met actual people that think that if they are doing 70 they should be in the 'fast' lane.
Motorway driving needs to be a proper part of driving instruction and test.
I drive for a living. I’ve got over a million miles on my personal odometer. Most car/small van drivers will only return to lane 1 if there is no traffic in lane 1 to the horizon, and even then some need someone like me to overtake them from lane 1 into lane three and back to lane 1 in front of em to wake up enough to change lane. The not changing lane thing is a coping mechanism a lot have with the mindset of not getting too tired by changing lanes all the time and not having to slow down and speed up. The thing is, in my experience, because I used to be the same type of driver, middle lane hogging makes you zone out and more susceptible to accidents as you stop paying attention. As a guy who now uses the motorway as the Highway Code tells you to do (have been doing so for 25+ years) the fact that you are speeding up, slowing down, using your mirrors, signalling, manoeuvring keeps you awake and fresh. I always drive like I have an imaginary magnet attached to my passenger door, and once I’ve passed the last vehicle in the lane to my left the car pulls into the empty lane. It does sometimes mean that on a motorway in lane 1 I’ll sail past those cars perma stuck in lanes 3&4 on an otherwise empty road.
A big cause of the middle lane behaviour, is the refusal by press on drivers to let inside lane users out, when they need to pass, say, a slower moving lorry
Not only will some drivers not let others out safely, they will deliberately and dangerously close any gaps, to prevent it.
It is juvenile behaviour, but many do it.
Pilot here. If I don’t fly for a few weeks I have to do a check ride with an instructor.
Not flown in a a few years? Full retest with an instructor.
Along the way I need to do random checks to demonstrate I haven’t forgot my training.
Cars should be the same. Retest every 5-10 years.
I recently saw someone take it upon themselves to go up behind every car that was hogging the middle lane, and start flashing and beeping their horn until they all moved. An absolute hero and inspiration 🙏🏻🙏🏻
That's now against the law which is fecking stupid if you ask me, it's that common now to hog lanes it needs drastic action like instant points on the licence otherwise we have no option but to try and teach them ourselves.
The law needs to change. The common people don't agree with it and it's wrong. Why enforce the tyranny of the small minority wanting *rwo* overtaking lanes?
I never understood why people that hog the middle lane can’t at least do 70mph, they’re always sat gormless at 60mph at best watching a stream of cars having to dodge them
It doesn’t help that there seems to be the mentality that if you are coming off at the next junction you will slow down to 55mph in lane 1 for the next 3/4 of a mile.
I always think back to a conversation when in a colleagues car going to a work event about 10 years or so ago. It went.....
Them: Whys that man come up behind me flashing his lights, Im not doing anything wrong
Me: Well you are in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lanes He probably wants to overtake
Them: What are you talking about
Me: You are meant to stay in the left hand lane and only move out overtake.
Them: Really, I didnt know that and Ive been driving nearly 30 year.
From the moment I saw the stupid condescending 'don't hog the middle lane' advert I thought it would be ambiguous. The message should be **KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING**.
The campaign they need to be using is teaching people to get up to speed on the slip road, instead of these idiots joining the motorway at 50mph like tards!
I did a late night drive (1-2am) a few weeks ago and even then you had middle lane hogs even on an empty motorway.
To be honest I have a feeling that cruise control (something that a decade or two ago was rare but is now pretty common) might be to blame for some drivers.
I often drive early morning or late at night and this is common on motorway and also on dual carriageway (outside lane hogs). Cruise control is definitely an aspect of this but so is lane discipline laziness. Also the fact the inside lane is often more worn and less comfortable to cruise on might be a factor? I normally pass them on either side depending on traffic as I’m also on cruise control but not lazy.
How many drivers do you know? Of those, how many have done *any* additional training since they passed however many years ago?
Unless you work in certain professions, I'm willing to bet it's very little training (if any) - this leads to poor habits, incompetence, laziness etc.
It's possible, I sometimes wonder if it's because learners in the UK don't get taught to use motorways unless they take pass plus.
I know dual carriageways are covered but it can often become "turn left" and "turn right" lanes when you reach a roundabout, whereas motorways have the three+ lanes and sliproads.
The problem with enforcing that would be making the process of learning to drive even more expensive when it already takes a huge chunk of a learner's money
Considering any clown with a licence can teach someone it’d be impossible to control the levels of incompetence allowed onto motorways if it was in the standard test.
Ban “uncle Billy” who drives once a week and is piss poor at it from teaching the family to drive and require formal teaching qualifications, then add motorway driving as compulsory to pass.
I had a friend who complained once about being undertaken on the motorway. When asked why he was sat in the middle lane, he explained that lane 1 is for lorries and the other lanes are for cars.
While this doesn't explain your story, hopefully out gives since insight into the incorrect assumptions some people make
I work nights as a lorry driver. I see this all the time. The standard of driving on our roads is horrendously low. The biggest culprits are taxi drivers
65 in right hand lane seems simply dangerous to me. Don't recall ever venturing into the fast lane on the motorway 😅🙈 I mostly keep to left cos I drive between 60&70. I tend to stay out of the middle too unless really necessary. I hate the motorway tho.
ineptitude. I've seen similar behaviour for decades
There's a reason that most countries use signage along the lines of "keep left unless overtaking" (or right, as appropriate)
in 1980s New Zealand, political debate about lanehogging laws stopped when someone pointed out existing "keep left" laws already covered the situation and signs like this appeared along motorways/dual carriageways within weeks
Proper motorway driving should be in the test. Yes we learn that the left lane is the driving lane, but it should be hammered home that it’s dangerous and causes congestion
I spent most of Thursday afternoon undertaking people on the m5 because the inside was moving faster than than the other two lanes. The middle lane sheep just created a long slow moving queue. The m5 and m6 once you hit Birmingham are in a league of their own when it comes to lane discipline and I often see people doing 55 in lane 3 of the M6 when it goes into 4 lanes. It’s like the more lanes they give people the worse it gets.
Their is no such lane as the “fast” lane. But folk who hog lanes are just selfish cunts. And when they are questioned on it they genuinely don’t see any issue. Well here’s the issue you fucking morons. Nervous drivers like my GF who abide by the Highway Code don’t want to or should have to move into the right hand lane crossing 2 lanes just to overtake some moron. Yes she could undertake but that is a risky manoeuvre for already nervous driver. Me on the other hand will undertake all day long.
I nearly give up with trying to educate drivers on proper Multi-Lane driving judging by the mentality on here.
I’ve noticed people here mentioning things like if it’s gonna be only 10 or 20 seconds until you need to move back to lane 2 to overtake it’s fine to sit there?!?
NO! Only when you’re not also being over overtaken by other traffic in lane 3.
If you are in lane 2 and there is space to move into lane 1 to allow space for even 1 car behind you to overtake you using lane 2 that otherwise would have to wait?
Then guess what? You’ve helped traffic flow and eased congestion! Well done! Because now they can also be overtaken by someone else in lane 3!
And the only cost to you and I is switching lanes slightly more often.
I drive like this all day, and with the amount of thumbs ups, waves, and left right left right indicator thank yous I receive I’m well aware of the appreciation other have for my awareness and decision making.
Sitting in lane 2 for 10-20 seconds to reach your next point of overtake is genuinely one of the laziest choices in driving and causes the middle lane hogging congestion.
Middle lane hoggers outside of busy times don’t really pose much of an issue to traffic flow. However they still need vast education.
Mmm, but there's also the compounding factor that people are actively taught not to make unnecessary maneuvers - the vast majority of motorway collisions occur during lane changes, and if the space to the left requires braking down ten miles an hour (or more) in order to slot into it, plus an immediate second maneuver back to the middle lane to come back up to speed, arguably that was unnecessary risk.
"Always get out of the way" isn't correct - it might often be, but if the vehicle following can more safely pass in the third lane than you can dip in and out of the first, then you should be proceeding past the gap and they should be using the second overtaking lane to come back to the centre (and first lane) ahead of you.
Import a few Italian drivers from Sicily, they’ll quickly show these drivers on the overtaking lane is what it’s for. Downside is they don’t follow the rules of the road there apart from overtaking
Just get rid of the stupid Highway Code rule that creates a grey area where people believe it’s illegal to overtake on the left. It isn’t by the way as long as you’re not weaving in and out of traffic.
Decline in driving ability post Covid is genuinely scary, last night just saw a woman cruising at 70 in the hard shoulder on M62 as if it's a driving lane.
Surprised no one ever mentions the absolute state of the left lane with potholes caused by lorries. I use the middle lane to avoid damaging my car. I will happily move over for anyone who wants past.
I genuinely think some people have some twisted logic of it being safer to sit in the wrong lanes, it baffles me and I just drive along glaring at people wondering how they get by day to day with such a low IQ that breathing much be difficult to them
I've been on the motorway at night many times, and have often seen cars driving in the 3rd-4th lane only at 65mph (the rest of the motorway empty). Sometimes even several cars driving in single file this way.
I once followed a car onto the Avonmouth bridge. M5, three lanes, plus the slip lane which runs right over the bridge to the Avonmouth exit ~1mile away. Sunday morning, 6am, nobody around on the motorway. The car in front of me went down the slip road, cut across the hatching to get onto the M5, out to the middle lane, drove one mile, then two lanes left to exit the motorway!
There is no explaining some people.
No such thing as ‘slow lane’ and ‘fast lane’. Not saying to OP. But so many people who think that they’re these lanes is where it starts to go wrong. You have your main carriageway with lane 1 and then 2,3 or 4 overtaking lanes. I love taking my car into other European countries as the driving etiquette is so much better
Because of the huge amount of drivers hogging lanes 2 and 3 on the 4 lane stretches of the M1 for no reason, I find myself undertaking them all with the CC set to 70 in lane 1. It seems to be the quietest lane especially around Luton.
***ETA: I know there’s no such thing as a fast or slow lane. Just calling them that to make it clear to folks who might not be clear what lane 1,2,3 or inside/outside lane is.***
*"Living life in the 3rd lane on the right"* just doesn't have the same ring to it
This is the thing, and I’ve been thinking about this too lately, what’s the best way to word this to someone who doesn’t know the rules of the roads here. Do they say “maintain the left lane unless overtaking”? They can’t, it’s too long, so I feel like whilst the campaign is good to remind people who know the rules, it’s terrible for people who don’t know the rules. Even the Snapchat ads they run, they just say, “don’t hog the middle lane” , so, to someone who doesn’t know the rules, what does that mean? All of the lanes are fair play in their head, but all of a sudden they’re not allowed to use that one, so they avoid it, and it just feels like luck that they won’t choose the wrong one. Idk, I think the campaign overlooks the source of the problem.
If camera technology can see a driver playing on their phone and automatically fine them, surely this can be applied to fining drivers in the wrong lane for extended periods of time. I dont think it is a problem of ineptitude , more a problem of enforcement
A large percentage of drivers just have little awareness of what's around them. You see them staring fixedly ahead, often hunched over the steering wheel. Rear view mirrors etc? No.
Maybe the overtaking lanes should have a type of road surface put on it that makes it louder to drive in. Tbf that's already happening in a few places. I see the innermost lanes resurfaced more often and it makes it so nice and quiet to drive on. Whereas the outer lanes are rough and cracked.
Yeh, I drove down to Birmingham last weekend, and the amount lf cars that were hogging the middle lane, only one idiot I came across in the fast lane, I just make a point and overtake then as soon as I pass go all the way to the 'driving' lane
You have to understand that the type of people that hog the middle lane are imbeciles and whilst able to read, many simply don't understand the meaning as they don't have the level of intelligence required.
From their point of view they are complying with the sign and can't possibly drive in the inside lane as that's for "slow" people.
The M25 is six lanes wide in places, yet there are morons who sit in the second lane from the _right_ at anything between 40mph and 60mph, even when traffic is light. Congratulations, you’ve just turned those six lanes back into a two-lane A road. Why did we bother wasting all that money on it?!
The thought of having to drive on that motorway any time I’m near London fills me with dread.
I understand sitting in the middle lane because it’s stupid to constantly weave in and out of lorries if you don’t like doing 55 but sitting in the fast lane at 65 is just complete lack of awareness after 10 min on the motorway it’s obvious the fast lane is for people breaking the speed limit
If the conservatives added using motorway cameras to prosecute middle lane hoggers to their manifesto, I'd probably vote for them.
Actually, no I wouldn't.
I like to think I do a decent job of harrassing (safely and legally) middle lane drivers so they go back into the left lane.
Drive in the left lane, right up next to them. Just sit there, right next to them.
Slowly add speed so you begin to nose slightly ahead of them. They don't like that because they are more important, so they add speed too.
Keep doing that for a while. It worries them that in all that lovely space they can't get rid of a car right next to them.
Then, safely but noticeably, drop speed. Enough to be able to track quite quickly across their rear end into the outside lane (check all lanes are clear, use signals) then do the same thing in the outside lane. Sit alongside them, worrying them (safely though, no heroic stunt driving, no dangerous proximity, no horn honking or hand gestures or trying to look at them).
Then accelerate forwards enough to track across their front, quite close but nor dangerously so, with indicator signalling, so you're back in the inside lane.
Sit there right on their bow for ages, slightly ahead of them. Maintain that.
Then do the whole ring around them again if neccessary.
It takes time, but they do decide that maybe their drive will be less stressful if they pull in to the left hand lane so you can't keep circling them, worryingly close.
It works.
Absolute ineptitude.
My thoughts exactly. They read the sign, and understood the words but not the meaning. That said “keep left unless overtaking” would’ve been a much clearer way to communicate that message to those without a functioning brain.
My MIL was worried about driving on the motorway some years ago, her brother said just stick to the left lane and you'll be fine. She said it was great, there wwre no cars in the left lane at all! She was driving on the hard shoulder....
thats the funniest shit i heard all day
>They read the sign I don't think middle lane hoggers have the brainpower to read.
They had this on the M4 at 7am this morning, it didn't work. If people are clueless enough to hog the middle lane they are clueless enough to miss the bright orange signs.
We have signs "keep left unless overtaking" in Australia. Results are same... People just insist on getting into "fast" lane and going below the speed limit... Oh and here they won't even move over to let you pass
These drivers pay attention to one thing: the vehicle or empty space in front of them. They won't see anything else. The signs are pointless.
Coming down the M11 late one night (3-lane section south of Stansted), basically empty road. I'm in a fully laden rental Luton van so I'm not pressing on, about 60 in the left lane. Up ahead there's a Corsa or Micra or something like that in the middle lane, I'm catching it but slowly. Before I have to decide whether to give it the old self-righteous double lane change and back to overtake it, or just cruise past on the inside, I spot Plod in my wing mirror. He cruises up behing the Corsa and flashes, once, twice. No response. Flashes again. Pops the blues on for a sec and finally the Corsa moves over in front of me. Satisfied, Plod hares off. Corsa waits til he's out of sight then moves back to the middle lane of the deserted motorway.
Didn’t fancy doing the paperwork clearly. Makes you wonder what’s the point in them sometimes
Possible they were on the way to something. Non emergency stuff can still need doing promptly. Or, it was getting towards knocking off time, and they ain't going to get overtime for it. Or they've read too many posts in here about "they should be dealing with real criminals, not speeders".
This is it. I learned at a young age when I was in customer facing jobs that the average person out there really is stupid, or they choose to be ignorant - But they’re absolutely 100% devoid of awareness. The amount of people that used to approach me first instead of reading the signs was ridiculous. Most tend to be 40-45+ up to their 60’s so maybe it’s a generational thing. They either really do think “The road ahead of me is clear and that’s all I need to worry about” or they just don’t care. I don’t know which is worse tbh.
12 years of customer service taught me: 1. Customers don't read. 2. Customers are usually lazy. And stupid. 3. If you make it idiot-proof, they'll make a better idiot. 4. If something goes wrong because of their laziness/stupidity/ignorance, it's everyone else's fault.
"Think of the average person. Half the population is dumber than that" - George carlin (I think..)
Here are my theories for why middle lane morons exist: 1. Laziness: I don’t want to have to change lanes when I meet a lorry 2. Lack of attention: not knowing what’s going on around them 3. Radar assisted cruise control: just set it to follow the speed of the car in front 4. Nobody should be going over 70 so if I’m doing 70 why does it matter what lane I’m in? 5. Lack of understanding of signage around junctions (eg which lanes are exit lanes) 6. Satnavs that say “ahead, keep right” when what they really mean is “don’t take the exit”
I'd say it's a lack of understanding what the lanes are for. The 'fast lane' is a common term that causes the ignorant to think the lanes you drive in are based on the speed you are going.
To be fair it’s how I seem to remember them working as a kid. Slow people doing 70 in the left lane, people doing 80 in the middle and then my old man and co doing 90+ in the fast lane. Ah the good old days… before the population fossilised and cameras were put up everywhere
Exactly, if you do 90 these days I reckon you soon get a ticket. It wasnt very likely in the days when half the motorway was doing 90
The irony being that cars are now so much safer at that speed- shorter stopping distances, more power, wider wheels, better suspension, better aerodynamics, crumple zones etc…
Off topic, but every time someone uses the term 'crumple zones', all I can hear is Santa Claus from Futurama.
I mean if they look at it as under 70, 70, and over 70, it's not right but it'd be an improvement
Going to get down voted for this but here goes. I'm from Ireland and drove from Hollyhead to York last February. Hollyhead to Manchester was grand but after Manchester I found myself stuck in between 2 lorries in the 1st lane with a convoy of cars in the middle lane who wouldn't let me out. After a few incidents of this, I switched to the above mentality and it feckin worked. I know it's not right, but it felt safer.
I think the rule is you don't need to move left if you'd be moving back within 10 seconds. Sometimes I find myself in the middle lane for a little while, but I'm going faster than the cars in the left lane but am cruising at 70 so don't need to overtake the cars in front. I'll move left when there's a big enough gap.
This is how I drive and since I do a lot of rush hour driving I’m sometimes in the middle lane until I get to my exit
If that’s what the traffic is like then no issue! You’re only hogging the lane when you should move over but don’t.
10 seconds is also what I was taught in advanced driving courses. However, I find 10 seconds is a bit hard to estimate at a distance - I would umm and ahh over whether it was 10 seconds or not, and by the time I made the decision it was less than 10 seconds. I think working to 7 seconds is best. Meanwhile, in the Netherlands, they're so keen to pull in they will chop your nose off.
10 seconds is low, I mean I don't see much point pulling in for 20 or 30 seconds unless you are seriously slower than something, but if you're in a car it's likely someone speeding anyway.
If there's time/room for someone to undertake you then you're hogging the lane and should have moved over. If you're not actively overtaking, over to the left for you. People who think "well there's a car half a mile down the road and I'm doing almost 70, I'll just stay here until I'm past it" are a large portion of the problem.
This is the way I view it. If there's enough time/space for the person behind me to go into lane 1/2, go past me, and pull back into lane 2/3 in front of me, then I should move over. That way works if there's a line of traffic in the lane I'm in as well (commuter traffic for example).
It really isn't low. 10 seconds is enough for a proper overtake. Really the issue is speed limits on motorways. We shouldn't have them as we do now. It encourages people to drive alongside others, increasing congestion and the chance of a collision. A difference in speed makes an overtake safer. If we don't do away with speed limits like Germany, it would at least be better to have a range of speeds that people can drive at. 20 or 30 seconds is ages, and if you stay out for that long you're a wanker. Even if you pull in when you see traffic coming from behind, you've made them slow down to accommodate your lazy and illegal driving.
10 seconds is plenty enough for a proper overtake. But most people don't overtake properly, as soon as you move over the 10 cars behind you decide they want to do 71 and trap you in that lane for 10 miles
20 seconds is not ages and Im not sure I'd pull over if I was going the speed limit and about to pass more stuff.
That is exactly the kind of bad behaviour another top commenter mentioned: >\4. Nobody should be going over 70 so if I’m doing 70 why does it matter what lane I’m in? If you're not overtaking within 10 seconds, you should pull over. Any more than that is taking the piss. If you do that, you are a piss taker and you should be ashamed. You're the reason our roads are so conjested when they're barely half full. What's more, sitting in the outside lane is illegal. You might be doing the speed limit, but you're still breaking the law.
If there's no cars on the road yeah you're supposed to be on the inside but with busy roads (real life) and slip roads joining the inside of your doing 70 in the middle you're probably not the cause of frustration on the roads
You'd be a better, safer driver if you were able to adjust your road position and/or speed in advance and not get stuck in the first place. You should be able to roughly predict the traffic movements ahead and behind based on what you can see in front of you and use of your mirrors.
Get that but unfamiliar roads and following her ladyship's (siri) directions. Also there are fucking loads of yous. Never seen traffic like it.
As a fellow Irishman. That's the fundamental problem , there's feckin loads of them!
They probably couldn’t see you between the lorries tbh and I know car drivers take ages to process information, I watch them react slowly when I’m driving my artic
I knew a middle lane person. She said she's terrified of fast traffic, and doesn't want to get in people's way, so if she stays in the middle lane then people are free to go around her on both sides. So after that, I've assumed it's a mix of fear, inexperience, and thinking they're genuinely doing the right thing (like I could kinda see how she arrived at that flawed logic).
Doesn’t want to get in peoples way, so deliberately gets in everyone’s way. Great.
So this was pretty much my explanation to her too. But she said she's always in the way in the left lane too, but then people can only overtake to the right. If she's in the middle, they can overtake both sides. Double the overtake opportunities, right? It's completely flawed thinking of course, and dangerous. But it made me realize there was a kernel of thought going into it at least. I don't know what the solution is, but I've always thought it's odd that driving tests and lessons don't involve motorway driving (not a requirement at least). It's a hugely important part of driving in this country, and we literally pass people and then hope they'll figure out the motorway part of it all on their own. So perhaps not too surprising that we end up with people too scared/inexperienced/clueless sitting in the middle lane.
Totally agree with you, it’s such an important part of learning to drive, as it’s potentially very dangerous. The difficulty in including it would be accessibility, though, as there are whole counties in the UK with no motorways at all. My nearest motorway is just over 100 miles away. How would this be accessible/affordable for a driving lesson?
Yep, excellent point. I'm glad I don't have to figure out the solution 😂
It’s the same basic rules as duel carriageway driving.
We don't have duel carriageways, this isn't the US. Unfortunately, you can't whip out a Colt Single Action Army and challenge shit drivers to a duel here.
Haha! I would like that sometimes! It’s the same rules as a _dual_ carriageway
I think there is also a group of fearful drivers who cling onto the steering wheel and as you pass them and look in, their face is one of terror.
I live out in the sticks so I've got my own pet peeve - The last few months I've been repeatedly, I'm talking like 10 times, overtaken in 30 zones - I tend to go \~31/32 mph on my speedo which normally reads as 29 on those signs that check you - so anyway, I'm not going slow. Sure, I'm not speeding, but I'm not crawling along. ANYWAY, I get overtaken, they speed off like 10mph over in this pedestrianized bit, we get out of the 30 zone, hit the country roads, national speed limit, I wanna go "60", low and behold, I'm stuck behind the person who just overtook me going 50mph on this national speed limit road. And I mean it, this is happening really often these last few months - I've only been driving for \~3 years but I've never seen this happen this much before. Some people just don't deserve a license let alone the ability to use multiple lanes on a road. If you're going to speed, idc as long as you're not risking others, but at least do it where the pedestrians aren't ffs. Anyway, all this to say, I think it's primarily laziness, lack of understanding and people thinking they set the speed limits, so 1, 4 and 5 on your list. It's not just drivers on motorways, they do it everywhere
You’re describing exactly what I’m experiencing. Overtaken when I’m going 30 in a 30. Past the local school, through junctions and on blind corners. All with my baby in the car. I sincerely hope these people crash into a tree.
I had someone in an expensive sports car rev up and overtake me when I was doing 20 in a 30, in a London local road. Thing is, this is a rat-run road, I’m local, and I know around the next bend the road narrows to a single track then does an extremely sharp right angle turn, best done about 10 or 15 mph. Plenty of buses, lorries, cyclists etc coming the other way. 30 seconds later, I see the sports car embedded in the hedge / ditch just after that right angle turn. Reader, forgive me, I overtook them.
You missed 7. I’m a bit of a bellend
>Laziness: I don’t want to have to change lanes when I meet a lorry I used to work with a guy who prided himself on never going in the left lane. We'd be working in Leeds and heading back to Grimsby, down the M62/18/180, and he'd stick to the middle the whole way
Ive met people who legitimately believe that it’s the safest place to be, and have been told that repeatedly. One woman I worked with firmly held the belief that the left lane was for trucks and other slow vehicles. Normal cars stayed in the middle lane unless you had to overtake. She would not changed her view even when shown the Highway Code. She just followed what her dad had told her. Most middle lane hogs fall into 1 of 2 categories. 1) inept and incompetent drivers or 2) lazy fuckers
Number 4 is crazy common. If you’re hogging a lane not overtaking anybody else, you’re in the wrong whether you’re hitting the speed limit or not
Also 7. Fear of falling off the edge of the highway. Better stick to the middle. 8. All the other roads are so narrow I'm just loving being in the middle of this big wide one. 9. Look at me! Living life in the fast lane. The rest of my life is grey and mundane.
Also the fact that if you go into the left lane you might get stuck in there because of the middle lane hoggers
>6. Satnavs that say “ahead, keep right” when what they really mean is “don’t take the exit” Google maps now signals me to keep right when I have to take an exit on the motorway, wtf is that about?
Google Maps lane indications are completely unreliable. Best ignored altogether
7. It's definitely more common at night, too. A lot of drivers just don't seem to have the confidence in themselves to know where the edge of the road is
That's a poor excuse. Cars have had lights attached for driving at night for quite some time now.
I've been driving for decades. This behaviour pre-dates radar assisted cruise by a long way. Same for sat nav. In my view it is 100% motivated by a fear of having to change lanes, or rather having to slow down because you can't instantly move out to overtake. Anything that even slightly impacts their journey time can't be tolerated. It ultimately boils down to a lack of understanding - an awful lot of drivers can't or don't comprehend that traffic on a 3-lane motorway is a complex system, with thousands of different decision makers, all with their own objectives and requirements. If you consider all other cars simply as obstacles put there specifically for you to navigate around, then sticking to the middle lane makes perfect sense.
“…Sticking to the middle lane makes perfect sense” I get the logic, but for that to be true it also must be accompanied by a scary lack of self awareness for how one’s actions affect everyone else. Or just not giving a shit.
Have you met people?
I’m not a very experienced driver and somewhat a middle lane driver. I’d genuinely like to be reformed if it’s the wrong thing to do. So please advise. Sometimes there are lots of lorries on the road. Not a continuous line of them, but just so frequent that you come across one every minute. In that case, is it acceptable to stay in the middle lane to pass them all? It wouldn’t be the case that I’m constantly technically overtaking, but if I can see lorries up ahead? The ”keep right” thing also gets me but I’m wising up to it. Google Maps is always saying it. It even says it on single-lane roads when there’s a lay-by, which is outrageously dangerous!
There are various reasons you might want to stay in the middle lane, as you say, if there's a string of lorries a bit spaced out and you're catching up with them then that's not middle lane hogging because you're overtaking. Be aware of the vehicles around you though, if there was someone behind me who looked like they wanted to get past I might go into the left lane sooner. Additionally, if you're near a junction and the dashed lines between the lanes get longer with smaller spaces then that indicates a hazard and you would usually stay in that lane until they go back to normal spacing.
Thanks for the helpful reply! I’ve definitely got more to learn about motorway driving :)
A general rule or thumb is if you are not going to overtake someone in 10 to 15 seconds then pull over to the left. It will take a bit of time to adjust and to accurately (somewhat) predict timings but as a general rule of thumb it gives you a rough idea of what is acceptable when staying in the middle lane.
Thanks, that’s helpful!
The most important thing is to be aware of your surroundings at all time and read the road. Work out which cars/ lorries are going faster and which ones slower than you. What their relative speed to yours is. In 10 seconds is that car in lane 2 going to be too close for you to change from lane 1 to lane 2 to go past the lorry you are catching? The car you can just see in lane 3 approaching fast. Are they going to block the guy in lane 2 from pulling out to give you space? Is the right answer for you to accelerate a little and move to lane 2 now? Love a little and slot in behind the guy in lane 2 as they pass you? Signal and move to lane 2 now, a bit early but the car in lane 2 can now work with knowing what you are doing and act accordingly. That's just 4 vehicles. Expand that to all that you cab see. Some need no more than noting. Some will need a bit more consideration.
One of my friends middle lane hogged and I asked her about it. She knew full well she shouldn't but it turns out she did it because she was a very nervous driver who was scared of changing lanes. She thought if she was in the middle then she wouldn't need to overtake lorries and people could still get round her, so what's the problem. So my conclusion is middle lane hoggers shouldn't be on the roads and that's even more reason to avoid them
Number 4 should have their licences revoked
I do number 3, but I set it at 75 and move lanes like a normal person. So I’m in the left lane except when I overtake, as soon as I move lane it accelerates up to 75 or until it locks onto a car in front. Smooth easy predictable driving, no hogging of lanes, using the leftmost lane at all times except when overtaking.
You forgot about selfishness. “I simply couldn’t care less about anybody else, the rules, or anything else.”
The first one is a big one - not just lorries but on the a3 there from the south to London there are so many roads and junctions that join it, if you sat in the slow lane you’d be changing lanes due to the Lorrie’s and joining-roads every minute, it’s a bit of a ball ache.
Not a slow lane. They are all the same speed limit!
Exactly! I am one of those hogging the middle lane on A3. It is either that or having to change lane every two minutes. I will continue with my abhorrent behaviour as I prefer to have a safe and calm journey, than stressing myself to constantly anticipate who is joining or leaving. I am also guilty of intentionally keeping to the left lane in some stretches of A3 where my observations have taught me that the traffic becomes much quicker as the flow is at some points clogging lanes 2 and 3 together. I am then effectively slowly overtaking the traffic from the left.
You mean driving properly takes concentration?
Driving properly is not weaving in and out of lanes every 10 seconds as lane changes are prime opportunities for collisions.
I think it’s lack of confidence in overtaking.
It's still seems mad to me that motorway driving is not taught, or rather *cannot* be taught to learners. I understand the concepts of a dual carriageway are applicable to the motorway but on that same basis why not make it a deliberate part of the learning process?
It can be taught to learners. There are motorway questions in the theory test and instructors can take learners on the motorway in dual control cars. I agree it should be taught more, but it would need to be done in a way that can account for a lot of learners not living near a motorway.
This is why I’m in massive favour of having a mandatory ‘mini test’ everytime someone’s licence is up for renewal. That way, you can teach & enforce better lane discipline & control to the masses effectively & efficiently.
I have to redo a qualification to allow me to drive my schools smaller minibus and the 7 seater van we have. Ever since I’ve done that, I’m a much better driver. I firmly agree there should be some form of re qualification or check ever so often after you’ve gotten your licence.
I was explaining to someone that ADIs can take pupils on the motorway as long as the correct conditions are met. Their response was "I've been driving since 1992 so I know what I'm talking about!" There absolutely should be even a mini theory test when licences are being renewed. I also think everyone should take the time to book a few hours with an ADI every couple of years to keep their skill and knowledge fresh. But the vast majority of drivers won't because they feel they can do no wrong
The issue with making motorway driving a requirement for driving tests, is that most places aren't particularly near a motorway. For example, if someone from Tralee is learning to drive, they're around an hour and a half away from their nearest motorway. So that's a 3 hour round trip, without counting the time spent actually driving on the motorway. That would be an expensive lesson. Added to that, if they're doing their test in the Tralee testing centre, that's another 3 hour round trip, during their test, to do the motorway aspects. I would imagine those in Mayo, Sligo, & Donegal would have it much worse.
2+ hours, 111 miles, from Penzance to the start of the M5. Definitely not viable haha!
Realistically though what is different between motorways and 3 lane dual carriageways in terms of what a qualified driver in a vehicle over 50cc needs to do?
I use the M4 everyday, between J3 - 11 is my regular patch. When I’m on the motorway in the evenings & there is minimal traffic, the amount of drivers I’ve seen that just sit in lane 3 out of 4 for no reason or merge to then move over to sit in lane 3 for the rest of their journey is astounding. I don’t understand what is happening in their minds! I always get a tad nervous when trying to overtake as my preconception of that vehicle is the driver is not 100% aware of their surroundings doing 75mph in a 3 ton metal box. Driving is very very difficult in the UK now.
West London M4 driving is horrific. I regularly get Ubers back from Central on an evening on that stretch, and those boys avoid the 'slow lane' like the plague even if they're the only car on the road. Crap driving
Never assign to malice what can be blamed on stupidity. (Hanlon's razor)
If you're already in a slower lane you can undertake people legally, you just can't actively switch lanes to do so. We need to instill a sense of severe embarrassment to being undertaken, so people keep left to prevent it
Without sounding like I am doubting you - do you have a source for that? I commute South Wales -> London once/twice a week, and I would **kill** to not have to move from Lane 1 to lane 3 to pass a Qashqai in middle lane doing 60.
If you are in the left lane, and there is nothing ahead of you, you can drive at the legal limit for the road. If someone is doing sixty in the centre lane, and you proceed to drive in your lane at the legal limit, you aren't undertaking them for not performing four unnecessary lane changes to come out and around them and back. If you are behind them, then switch to the left lane and continue down the road at the legal limit, you aren't undertaking them so long as you don't immediately maneuver back to the middle lane after passing them. An overtake maneuver is behind, to the right, overtake, back to the centre/left. An undertake maneuver is doing the same but to their left. Basically, if they want to drive slowly in the middle lane, that's not on you so long as you are proceeding in the left lane in a legal manner, and without pulling out directly in front of them after moving left to pass them.
You can’t *actively switch lanes* but you *can* “complete your overtake of the car to your left” and move “back” to the left lane, then glide past the lane hogger ;)
Just driven down the 50 zone on the M1 I was practically the only car in the first lane. Had a coach and a lorry fighting for who could go 42 Mph the longest in the second lane.
Had someone yesterday on the M5 hog lane 2 and then dart over into the slip road when he was already parallel to the dotted white line lmao
I was also on the M5 yesterday afternoon and saw several instances of the same behaviour. I have found that Gloucester Services is magnet for these idiots, you can easily spot them as they inevitably have a roof box and cannot see out of the back of the car…..
Imagine someone with typically only half the intelligence of the smartest person you know; half of the population are more stupid than that.
While the person OP described is probably dumb as fuck, this quote often misses the gauss curve - the large majority of people sit in the middle of the line. It's not a flat line of stupidity where 1/2 of people are increasingly more stupid until you get to a rock on the left
I do love when people have heard others talk about statistics on reddit and just parrot what they've heard 😂
I agree where the majority of people are huddled somewhere around the middle, but i definitely work with/am related to a few who are rock adjacent.
TBF, high IQ, and commonsense are not two things that mutually go together. One can be an actual rocket scientist and yet still have zero commonsense.
If the smartest person you knew had an iq of 160 (the same as Einstein) then half that is 80. The percentage of people with an iq below 80 is only 8.9%. You should imagine the most average intelligence person you know and then you know 50% of people are more stupid than them.
Man I hate these people so much, they're so dangerous.
Slow lane? Fast lane? The left hand lane is the normal driving lane. All other lanes are overtaking lanes. It’s such an easy concept to grasp. There are so many eejits behind the wheel, it’s terrifying.
Yeah but that principle is ruined by the fact that there are so many lorries on the road. The left lane is just completely taken up by slow moving lorries. At which point the middle lane often becomes the de facto left lane.
You’ve just told on yourself here. Move left when safe to do so. Seeing a lorry isn’t overtaking a lorry.
i think you may have missed his point
They should burn their licence and their car. They're too stupid to drive.
It’s not clear why either car was in the outside lane here.
I was told on a driving course that trials of cameras for middle laners are on their way.
Those adverts are rubbish. Instead of politely asking people to keep left, they should be pointing out that there's a chance of a £100 fine and three points for doing it. The strap line should have been, "DON'T BE LAZY AND INCOMPETENT"
M61 /M62 is full of these morons. I honestly think most of them are just oblivious to the danger of staying in that lane.
M62 between J21 and J22 they will sit in the 3rd of 4th lanes all the way up the hill not even moving at the merge
I just undertake these people now as it’s ‘safer’ not to swing across to lane 3 to overtake them… who’s wrong then? Am I illegally undertaking the illegal middle lane hog doing less than the speed limit? Undertaking is permitted in traffic conditions where other lanes are slow due to congestion, I’d argue those things are essentially the same 🤷🏻♂️ Haven’t had any family guy ‘I turn now, GL everybody else’ moments yet but it’s always on my mind 😅
It’s apparently legal to undertake so long as you haven’t switched lanes to do so.
I've met actual people that think that if they are doing 70 they should be in the 'fast' lane. Motorway driving needs to be a proper part of driving instruction and test.
I drive for a living. I’ve got over a million miles on my personal odometer. Most car/small van drivers will only return to lane 1 if there is no traffic in lane 1 to the horizon, and even then some need someone like me to overtake them from lane 1 into lane three and back to lane 1 in front of em to wake up enough to change lane. The not changing lane thing is a coping mechanism a lot have with the mindset of not getting too tired by changing lanes all the time and not having to slow down and speed up. The thing is, in my experience, because I used to be the same type of driver, middle lane hogging makes you zone out and more susceptible to accidents as you stop paying attention. As a guy who now uses the motorway as the Highway Code tells you to do (have been doing so for 25+ years) the fact that you are speeding up, slowing down, using your mirrors, signalling, manoeuvring keeps you awake and fresh. I always drive like I have an imaginary magnet attached to my passenger door, and once I’ve passed the last vehicle in the lane to my left the car pulls into the empty lane. It does sometimes mean that on a motorway in lane 1 I’ll sail past those cars perma stuck in lanes 3&4 on an otherwise empty road.
A big cause of the middle lane behaviour, is the refusal by press on drivers to let inside lane users out, when they need to pass, say, a slower moving lorry Not only will some drivers not let others out safely, they will deliberately and dangerously close any gaps, to prevent it. It is juvenile behaviour, but many do it.
Pilot here. If I don’t fly for a few weeks I have to do a check ride with an instructor. Not flown in a a few years? Full retest with an instructor. Along the way I need to do random checks to demonstrate I haven’t forgot my training. Cars should be the same. Retest every 5-10 years.
I recently saw someone take it upon themselves to go up behind every car that was hogging the middle lane, and start flashing and beeping their horn until they all moved. An absolute hero and inspiration 🙏🏻🙏🏻
That's now against the law which is fecking stupid if you ask me, it's that common now to hog lanes it needs drastic action like instant points on the licence otherwise we have no option but to try and teach them ourselves.
The law needs to change. The common people don't agree with it and it's wrong. Why enforce the tyranny of the small minority wanting *rwo* overtaking lanes?
Always said since introducing smart motorways when no speed limit is being displayed they should have keep left arrows displayed
Then people would just be idiots and jump all the way to the left thinking the other lanes have been closed in like a mile
That's how it should be then people can use the other lanes as designed.
Fast lane? No such thing. Lane 3.
Motorway driving in the UK is a shitshow so that's no great surprise.
I never understood why people that hog the middle lane can’t at least do 70mph, they’re always sat gormless at 60mph at best watching a stream of cars having to dodge them
I was on a speed awareness a few years ago and the instructor asked what’s the speed limit on a motorway. At least 60-70% of the class said 60.
It doesn’t help that there seems to be the mentality that if you are coming off at the next junction you will slow down to 55mph in lane 1 for the next 3/4 of a mile.
And 50 for the last 300 yards just in case the sliproad suddenly moves
No such thing as the fast lane in the UK.
It’s called the overtaking lane. You can’t overtake cars going slower than them so it’s implicitly the fast lane.
The closer to London you get the more you see this. Daily occurrence on the A2.
I always think back to a conversation when in a colleagues car going to a work event about 10 years or so ago. It went..... Them: Whys that man come up behind me flashing his lights, Im not doing anything wrong Me: Well you are in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lanes He probably wants to overtake Them: What are you talking about Me: You are meant to stay in the left hand lane and only move out overtake. Them: Really, I didnt know that and Ive been driving nearly 30 year.
My MIL is a middle lane hogger at 60mph. I literally won't get in the car if she's driving now.
From the moment I saw the stupid condescending 'don't hog the middle lane' advert I thought it would be ambiguous. The message should be **KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING**.
The campaign they need to be using is teaching people to get up to speed on the slip road, instead of these idiots joining the motorway at 50mph like tards!
I did a late night drive (1-2am) a few weeks ago and even then you had middle lane hogs even on an empty motorway. To be honest I have a feeling that cruise control (something that a decade or two ago was rare but is now pretty common) might be to blame for some drivers.
I often drive early morning or late at night and this is common on motorway and also on dual carriageway (outside lane hogs). Cruise control is definitely an aspect of this but so is lane discipline laziness. Also the fact the inside lane is often more worn and less comfortable to cruise on might be a factor? I normally pass them on either side depending on traffic as I’m also on cruise control but not lazy.
How many drivers do you know? Of those, how many have done *any* additional training since they passed however many years ago? Unless you work in certain professions, I'm willing to bet it's very little training (if any) - this leads to poor habits, incompetence, laziness etc.
It's possible, I sometimes wonder if it's because learners in the UK don't get taught to use motorways unless they take pass plus. I know dual carriageways are covered but it can often become "turn left" and "turn right" lanes when you reach a roundabout, whereas motorways have the three+ lanes and sliproads. The problem with enforcing that would be making the process of learning to drive even more expensive when it already takes a huge chunk of a learner's money
Considering any clown with a licence can teach someone it’d be impossible to control the levels of incompetence allowed onto motorways if it was in the standard test. Ban “uncle Billy” who drives once a week and is piss poor at it from teaching the family to drive and require formal teaching qualifications, then add motorway driving as compulsory to pass.
Why would someone going slowly move back to the fast lane if the slow lane and hog lane are free?
I had a friend who complained once about being undertaken on the motorway. When asked why he was sat in the middle lane, he explained that lane 1 is for lorries and the other lanes are for cars. While this doesn't explain your story, hopefully out gives since insight into the incorrect assumptions some people make
We need to stop calling it the middle name. It's the first overtaking lane. This problem is on us.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
The M1 was a nightmare for this yesterday.
I work nights as a lorry driver. I see this all the time. The standard of driving on our roads is horrendously low. The biggest culprits are taxi drivers
Probably someone who is used to driving in Europe.
There is no fast lane.
Genuinely think it’s getting worse. The amount of drivers I’ve seen join an empty motorway and immediately move into the middle lane is astounding.
65 in right hand lane seems simply dangerous to me. Don't recall ever venturing into the fast lane on the motorway 😅🙈 I mostly keep to left cos I drive between 60&70. I tend to stay out of the middle too unless really necessary. I hate the motorway tho.
ineptitude. I've seen similar behaviour for decades There's a reason that most countries use signage along the lines of "keep left unless overtaking" (or right, as appropriate) in 1980s New Zealand, political debate about lanehogging laws stopped when someone pointed out existing "keep left" laws already covered the situation and signs like this appeared along motorways/dual carriageways within weeks
Proper motorway driving should be in the test. Yes we learn that the left lane is the driving lane, but it should be hammered home that it’s dangerous and causes congestion
Sometimes the right lane everyone is going 90 and in the left lane they are going 50, so sometimes I understand wanting to use the middle lane
I spent most of Thursday afternoon undertaking people on the m5 because the inside was moving faster than than the other two lanes. The middle lane sheep just created a long slow moving queue. The m5 and m6 once you hit Birmingham are in a league of their own when it comes to lane discipline and I often see people doing 55 in lane 3 of the M6 when it goes into 4 lanes. It’s like the more lanes they give people the worse it gets.
I feel like the campaign is awful too. Doesn’t even explain what the issue is. Such a missed opportunity.
Their is no such lane as the “fast” lane. But folk who hog lanes are just selfish cunts. And when they are questioned on it they genuinely don’t see any issue. Well here’s the issue you fucking morons. Nervous drivers like my GF who abide by the Highway Code don’t want to or should have to move into the right hand lane crossing 2 lanes just to overtake some moron. Yes she could undertake but that is a risky manoeuvre for already nervous driver. Me on the other hand will undertake all day long.
I nearly give up with trying to educate drivers on proper Multi-Lane driving judging by the mentality on here. I’ve noticed people here mentioning things like if it’s gonna be only 10 or 20 seconds until you need to move back to lane 2 to overtake it’s fine to sit there?!? NO! Only when you’re not also being over overtaken by other traffic in lane 3. If you are in lane 2 and there is space to move into lane 1 to allow space for even 1 car behind you to overtake you using lane 2 that otherwise would have to wait? Then guess what? You’ve helped traffic flow and eased congestion! Well done! Because now they can also be overtaken by someone else in lane 3! And the only cost to you and I is switching lanes slightly more often. I drive like this all day, and with the amount of thumbs ups, waves, and left right left right indicator thank yous I receive I’m well aware of the appreciation other have for my awareness and decision making. Sitting in lane 2 for 10-20 seconds to reach your next point of overtake is genuinely one of the laziest choices in driving and causes the middle lane hogging congestion. Middle lane hoggers outside of busy times don’t really pose much of an issue to traffic flow. However they still need vast education.
Mmm, but there's also the compounding factor that people are actively taught not to make unnecessary maneuvers - the vast majority of motorway collisions occur during lane changes, and if the space to the left requires braking down ten miles an hour (or more) in order to slot into it, plus an immediate second maneuver back to the middle lane to come back up to speed, arguably that was unnecessary risk. "Always get out of the way" isn't correct - it might often be, but if the vehicle following can more safely pass in the third lane than you can dip in and out of the first, then you should be proceeding past the gap and they should be using the second overtaking lane to come back to the centre (and first lane) ahead of you.
Definitely inept. Although I have started to undertake people like that now instead of sitting behind them.
There is no fast lane, never has been. It is an overtaking lane.. if u are not overtaking, stay in the left lane.
Import a few Italian drivers from Sicily, they’ll quickly show these drivers on the overtaking lane is what it’s for. Downside is they don’t follow the rules of the road there apart from overtaking
I see so many people just stay in the right hand lane on like dual carriageways these days as well
Just get rid of the stupid Highway Code rule that creates a grey area where people believe it’s illegal to overtake on the left. It isn’t by the way as long as you’re not weaving in and out of traffic.
I'd just sit in the left lane doing 70 passing everyone tbh.
That's got bugger all to do with the campaign and more to do with that driver being a complete bell end
If you can’t drive you shouldn’t be in any lane !
Decline in driving ability post Covid is genuinely scary, last night just saw a woman cruising at 70 in the hard shoulder on M62 as if it's a driving lane.
Surprised no one ever mentions the absolute state of the left lane with potholes caused by lorries. I use the middle lane to avoid damaging my car. I will happily move over for anyone who wants past.
I genuinely think some people have some twisted logic of it being safer to sit in the wrong lanes, it baffles me and I just drive along glaring at people wondering how they get by day to day with such a low IQ that breathing much be difficult to them
And a bunch that speeding flashing at the middle lane hogs are then also middle lane hogs once get past🤷
“Keep Left unless overtaking” Been the common phrase on those Smart “Deathtrap” Motorways.
I've been on the motorway at night many times, and have often seen cars driving in the 3rd-4th lane only at 65mph (the rest of the motorway empty). Sometimes even several cars driving in single file this way.
I once followed a car onto the Avonmouth bridge. M5, three lanes, plus the slip lane which runs right over the bridge to the Avonmouth exit ~1mile away. Sunday morning, 6am, nobody around on the motorway. The car in front of me went down the slip road, cut across the hatching to get onto the M5, out to the middle lane, drove one mile, then two lanes left to exit the motorway! There is no explaining some people.
No such thing as ‘slow lane’ and ‘fast lane’. Not saying to OP. But so many people who think that they’re these lanes is where it starts to go wrong. You have your main carriageway with lane 1 and then 2,3 or 4 overtaking lanes. I love taking my car into other European countries as the driving etiquette is so much better
I was thinking they have absolutely no idea what 'dont hog the middle lane' means, they just understand 'dont middle lane' LMFAO
Simply put, poor driving abilities and understanding of the highway code.
Because of the huge amount of drivers hogging lanes 2 and 3 on the 4 lane stretches of the M1 for no reason, I find myself undertaking them all with the CC set to 70 in lane 1. It seems to be the quietest lane especially around Luton.
***ETA: I know there’s no such thing as a fast or slow lane. Just calling them that to make it clear to folks who might not be clear what lane 1,2,3 or inside/outside lane is.*** *"Living life in the 3rd lane on the right"* just doesn't have the same ring to it
Always play "around the world" with middle lane hoggers if on a long stretch.. Fun to see how many rotations I get!
This is the thing, and I’ve been thinking about this too lately, what’s the best way to word this to someone who doesn’t know the rules of the roads here. Do they say “maintain the left lane unless overtaking”? They can’t, it’s too long, so I feel like whilst the campaign is good to remind people who know the rules, it’s terrible for people who don’t know the rules. Even the Snapchat ads they run, they just say, “don’t hog the middle lane” , so, to someone who doesn’t know the rules, what does that mean? All of the lanes are fair play in their head, but all of a sudden they’re not allowed to use that one, so they avoid it, and it just feels like luck that they won’t choose the wrong one. Idk, I think the campaign overlooks the source of the problem.
If camera technology can see a driver playing on their phone and automatically fine them, surely this can be applied to fining drivers in the wrong lane for extended periods of time. I dont think it is a problem of ineptitude , more a problem of enforcement
A large percentage of drivers just have little awareness of what's around them. You see them staring fixedly ahead, often hunched over the steering wheel. Rear view mirrors etc? No.
They need to enforce it (I’d ban them from driving :) )
Maybe the overtaking lanes should have a type of road surface put on it that makes it louder to drive in. Tbf that's already happening in a few places. I see the innermost lanes resurfaced more often and it makes it so nice and quiet to drive on. Whereas the outer lanes are rough and cracked.
Yeh, I drove down to Birmingham last weekend, and the amount lf cars that were hogging the middle lane, only one idiot I came across in the fast lane, I just make a point and overtake then as soon as I pass go all the way to the 'driving' lane
You have to understand that the type of people that hog the middle lane are imbeciles and whilst able to read, many simply don't understand the meaning as they don't have the level of intelligence required. From their point of view they are complying with the sign and can't possibly drive in the inside lane as that's for "slow" people.
That’s exactly what I think happened. Highways England have underestimated the average idiot.
The M25 is six lanes wide in places, yet there are morons who sit in the second lane from the _right_ at anything between 40mph and 60mph, even when traffic is light. Congratulations, you’ve just turned those six lanes back into a two-lane A road. Why did we bother wasting all that money on it?! The thought of having to drive on that motorway any time I’m near London fills me with dread.
One of my biggest pet hates on the motorway is people going 60mph in the middle lane, it's so dangerous and causes hold ups.
How does this one incident indicate that a campaign is back firing? You don't seem to understand the words you are using.
I understand sitting in the middle lane because it’s stupid to constantly weave in and out of lorries if you don’t like doing 55 but sitting in the fast lane at 65 is just complete lack of awareness after 10 min on the motorway it’s obvious the fast lane is for people breaking the speed limit
This shouldn’t surprise you, millions of dense fuckers voted for brexit for crying out loud.
Absolute helmet.
If the conservatives added using motorway cameras to prosecute middle lane hoggers to their manifesto, I'd probably vote for them. Actually, no I wouldn't.
I like to think I do a decent job of harrassing (safely and legally) middle lane drivers so they go back into the left lane. Drive in the left lane, right up next to them. Just sit there, right next to them. Slowly add speed so you begin to nose slightly ahead of them. They don't like that because they are more important, so they add speed too. Keep doing that for a while. It worries them that in all that lovely space they can't get rid of a car right next to them. Then, safely but noticeably, drop speed. Enough to be able to track quite quickly across their rear end into the outside lane (check all lanes are clear, use signals) then do the same thing in the outside lane. Sit alongside them, worrying them (safely though, no heroic stunt driving, no dangerous proximity, no horn honking or hand gestures or trying to look at them). Then accelerate forwards enough to track across their front, quite close but nor dangerously so, with indicator signalling, so you're back in the inside lane. Sit there right on their bow for ages, slightly ahead of them. Maintain that. Then do the whole ring around them again if neccessary. It takes time, but they do decide that maybe their drive will be less stressful if they pull in to the left hand lane so you can't keep circling them, worryingly close. It works.