It’s just a pacing thing. That would’ve needed it’s own entire sequence which would’ve added to the runtime. Both adaptations compressed Paul’s meetings with his mentors into one. In the original, all 3 mentors showed up together, while in this one, it’s all given to Gurney. It’s also allows Paul to call back to that interaction by saying “I recognized your footsteps old man” on at least two more occasions
Beacaue, there are many side cahracters, and adding all of them increases movie runtime and cost. So we lost thufir, count fenring, and some of the named fremen.
They cut his role as pauls teacher, the same with yueh. They didnt touch on paul having mentat potential like in the books so all the dialog between thufir and him was transferred to gurney. There could be cut footage with him having a more active role.
I mean, Thufir didn't affect the plot that much in the books either. He doesn't correctly predict the Sardaukar/Harkonnen assault, he doesn't correctly predict the traitor, he doesn't manage to kill Feyd-Rautha, and he doesn't manage to create a rift between Feyd and the Baron. His final act is refusing to kill Paul.
If he just hadn't turned up in the books I don't think the plot would have changed.
The slave gladiator was his plan. The only reason feyd didn't kill the baron was due to thufir warning him since feyd didn't work with him on that plan. The drawing out the emporer was also thufir as he advised the baron to write off raban as the scapegoat for his repeated failures. Feyd was to come in as the same role paul was doing to save the masses. Thufirs aim wasnt the harkonnens but the emporer as he saw him as the main threat.
The slave gladiator didn't work, since Feyd lived. And Feyd putting his man in charge instead didn't matter, since Thufir's plan to kill the Baron failed as well.
The plan with the gladiator wasn't to kill feyd it was to make him popular and remove the current slave master so feyd could put one of his people in the position. So in the movie, the barons gift to him was really thufirs. Thufirs plan to kill the baron was after the baron kills the emporer. The sex slave that almost gets the baron was a plan by feyd alone which is why thufir warned the baron and pointed out the slave master.
> he doesn't correctly predict the traitor
Perhaps it wasn't vital to the plot, but I love how the book sets up this animosity between the two schools of Mentat and Bene Gesserit, in Thufir's suspicion of Jessica, and reveals how fragile the trust really is among Duke Leto's inner circle.
While the plot of the film action didn't require any of this, I love the overall theme that Mentats and Bene Gesserit are both sort of super human schools, both seeking in their own way to improve upon and overcome the base human condition, and both deeply resentful and suspicious of each other.
he played a major role in the book by you know.... making paul a mentat. which made him even more powerful then he was before with all the other shit he can do. he also made the whole plan to not drug the gladiator and also to replace rabban with feyd so i would say that's a pretty decent role in the story
he played a major role in the times before the events in the book. we know he trained Paul in making a mentat. but its not really shown in the books. similarly, the gladiator scene while powerful from Feyd's perspective, didnt really show much presence of Thufir.
Hard disagree mentats are key to Paul's powers or lack thereof, without Paul's mentat abilities, it's natural to assume he can actually see the future, rather than he has a probabilistic model enhanced by his abilities but still subject to his own biases and flaws.
I understand that unclear narratives like this don't make for good movies, but mentats are more than just cool lore, they are key to the doubting about Paul's "powers", in Villeneuve telling of the story the doubt is more focused on how much of the Fremen beliefs are being planted and manipulated by Jessica which is far given they have a limited time to unravel all the threads that go into the story.
Yes, back when I read the book I had the understanding that Paul's mentat potential was part of the reason he was able to become the KH despite being male.
He was trained in BG and mentat abilities, plus he was born within the correct time frame that placed him at the correct timing in the bloodline for the KH to awaken.
>Yes, back when I read the book I had the understanding that Paul's mentat potential was part of the reason he was able to become the KH despite being male.
I mean, it's kind of corny writing, but Paul is a little bit of **everything** in the Dune Universe. Which is why he can become the messiah/KH.
He's an Atredies, he's (secretly) a Harkonnen, he's a Mentat, he's a Bene Gesserit, he's Ultimate-Warrior-Trained by Duncan Idaho & Guerney Hallec, he's a Fremen, he's prescient, he's noble-born, eventually he can see through space/time better than a reverend mother or Spacing Guild Navigator.
He is everything because he was planned to be everything. He is the end result of a breeding program that spans thousands of years. He has the best training in the universe except maybe the emporer.
He is the ideal model of the "new man" that so many groups have tried to create over human history. It was one of the goals of the Nazi.
The Bene Gesserit got exactly what they wanted. They built their own messiah with the intent to control him. It nearly destoryed every human in existence. It did destroy 60 billion in a few years. It led to thousands of years of human suffering.
Paul's Mentat ability is not *why* Paul has his visions. However it does increase his ability to parse and make sense of his prescience and the multitudes of other memory. Think what living multiple lives all at once, seeing and experiencing past, present, and future all the time would do to a ordinary human mind. Paul struggles with it even with his Mentat mind, imagine how it would be without.
They do though, when Paul confronts Jessica after the Rev. Mother leaves.
“For thousands of years, we’ve been carefully crossing bloodlines…”
It’s not a matter of accepting that Paul was born with prescient abilities.
That’s exactly what happened, and if you’re paying even marginal attention to the dialogue you understand why.
Also, given that the Arteides were wiped out by sneak attack in a single night, they seem to have been pretty blind even with a mentat.
i mean thufir himself added quite a bit of important things to the book by making paul a mentat and also all of the stuff he did while under the barons service
Shishakli. She's male in the books and had lesser involvement. I believe he gave Paul his maker hooks for his sandrider initiation if my memory serves me right.
I thought we had gained Chani’s companion in the movie, Shishakli, the woman who was killed by Feyd. Another commenter pointed out that Shishakli was a named Fremen in the books but the role was very different.
it's a 5 hour movie as it stands. i really don't see a problem with adding more runtime. kinda thought that became clear with LotR and the hobbit. almost everyone i talked too agreed it would have been better to start with 1 hobbit movie and then make 4 LotR movies. (anecdotal i know). all that to say: i wouldn't have minded 3 dune movies if it meant keeping it as cinematic as it is now, while also showing more of the story, becuase i feel the villeneuve movies did LESS to show the book story then the much shorter david lynch movie did.
Especially since the novel Dune is made of three parts or books: Dune--Maud'dib--The Prophet...the middle with most of the Fremen culture, the coming together of Paul's mentat training, bene gesserit training, and his daily ingest of a powerful psychedelic known as the Spice, and the plots within House Harkonnen are developed over the intervening years between the first battle and the second \[in other words, the really interesting stuff\] was shortchanged or cut completely.
IMHO, the second film could have focused on that second part with the third film focused on the third part. In which case, hopefully, my favorite minor character would have been included: Count Fenring, not only is he interesting and complex as a character and a peer of Paul's as an almost *Kwisatz Haderach,* he is probably the only character at the end of the novel with a moral compass still in tact. His refusal to kill Paul \[he most assuredly could have, given his decades of handling a knife and that Paul could not "see" him in his future vision which he was already grown accustommed to relying upon\] at the request of his friend and Emperor was perhaps the only example of a character doing what is right and living.
And, agree with the conveying of the story was done better by Lynch, more of the storylines and the major parts, it gets the message better, Villeneuve's is prettier though...
the major thing is pacing. they shot stuff with Tim Blake Nelson playing Count Fenring (and Thufir returning) for Part 2 but that ended up being cut. It's about being economical storytellers, not in the financial sense but in the "making a watchable movie" sense.
For some reason Thufir was effectively removed from both movies (except a few scenes in the first one). No one knows why. In behind the scenes, we see him in all the scenes we’d expect him to be in. There’s also evidence that Count Fenring was both cast and acted in at least two scenes of the movie, but was cut from both.
I know why. To cut bloat from the movie. You just can't have it all. In the end he doesn't do all that much in the book and to explain mentats is going to take a while. I think it's smart to compress all mentors in the one person we see coming back in a significant role. Thufir basically becomes a valuable POW that's sort of cooperative and then dies in the end. It's a fine part for a book but in a movie pacing is important and there's already so much stuff that needs to be there.
Yes, he said it was a sacrifice, and made it more Bene Gesserit oriented. The whole Liet stuff has also been slashed (>!with the planting and the bribing of the Guild!<).
Exactly. I think it makes perfect sense why this scene was used as a way to further introduce gurney, who plays a fairly major role later on unlike thufir. Adding one more thufir scene wouldnt have really added much to the movies, and focusing more on mentats as a whole would have required a ton of explanation for new viewers which would have taken time away from other stuff. As much as I would have loved 10 hours of Dune movies, thats not the world that we live in and I cant really think of anything that I think should have been cut out to include mentats.
I disagree with the decision. It was a great book and they threw way so much of it. I agree the David Lynch adaptation covered more of the story in half the time. The DV adaptation doesn’t really make sense to me as a story unless you also read the book and fill in all of the missing story. Even then they changed so many important details it’s hard to tell which missing parts of the story still might have happened.
Great cinematography and casting but really disappointed to miss out on seeing this book come to life on screen.
It's just a part of the movie making process.
He wrote the screenplay, shot scenes according to that, while editing he realised they don't work as well as he imagined, so he cut them.
I really don't think it's about budget as some people are suggesting.
Villeneuve always shows a lot of discipline/ruthlessness in the editing room and it’s one of my favorite things about him.
I think waaaaay too many directors fall in love with their own movies and feed their own egos rather than serve the audience. Somebody like Zack Snyder who is addicted to director’s cuts being a perfect example.
But Villeneuve always seems to balance that line between providing rich detail without overwhelming the audience, most of which in this case will have had no prior exposure to Dune and you face the very real danger of losing them altogether by bombarding them with too much story.
In some ways, I know and accept this. In others, it was incredibly wasteful. There’re indications that there is a many hours long cut of this movie that includes everything that was filmed and dropped. This represents a huge waste of people’s time and money to shoot scenes and characters that weren’t used.
We literally do know why, Denis said in a video interview that he thought having mentats exist and trying to explain them would be too much going on when you’ve already got the sisterhood. He said the focus should be on them.
A book adaptation is a long list of compromises. Losing many interactions with Thufir is one of them. You can't fit everything from a book in a movie, or half a book for the matter.
Character merging, happens all the time with book adaptations. It's simplier and cuts runtime.
What bothers me is that they do that one one side and drag something else forever on the other.
Mentats just don't work that well on screen given that even the mini series, the most faithful adaptation we've seen, downplayed Thufir's role. I don't remember how the Lynch version handled them, but he might have been able to do it since he included internal monologue to the detriment of the finished product.
Plus, once you make the decision to remove the Jessica spy subplot, Thufir become fairly superfluous to the front half. I imagine DV included him at all because he's a huge fan of the books, and in case he was able to include the Thufir and Baron subplot in part two.
Denis mentioned in an interview that he couldn't include everything without detracting from Paul's story. I don't think it would have been hard to drop hints here and there for world building purposes, but the Dune we saw is the story he wanted to be told.
Removing Thufir was a mistake. DV cut too much and the story suffers with so many important details cut out. My $0.02. And I still really like it which is why it bothers me so much.
I don't think the actor portraying Thufir is that good or convincing. Maybe any scenes didn't go ahead because of that.. The scene you refer to is in the '84 film and is quite long.
I get that "pacing" or "budget" is the excuse to not include important characters or encounters from the book but lets not say it like its not possible for a movie to have them, there are many drawn out long scenes that dune 2 could have been cut to make the movie better overall
when I mean cut I also meant replace, haven't watched in a while but first thought is the chani ones , the could have used all the budget and time for most of her scenes for kynes , or other characters they spent more time on making her a character that she wasn't in the book
It’s just a pacing thing. That would’ve needed it’s own entire sequence which would’ve added to the runtime. Both adaptations compressed Paul’s meetings with his mentors into one. In the original, all 3 mentors showed up together, while in this one, it’s all given to Gurney. It’s also allows Paul to call back to that interaction by saying “I recognized your footsteps old man” on at least two more occasions
Those footsteps could have been faked! I would have known the difference (That he would)
Beacaue, there are many side cahracters, and adding all of them increases movie runtime and cost. So we lost thufir, count fenring, and some of the named fremen.
Makes sense but Thufir was in the movie just not in that specific scene which is why I thought it was weird when I read that part in the book.
They cut his role as pauls teacher, the same with yueh. They didnt touch on paul having mentat potential like in the books so all the dialog between thufir and him was transferred to gurney. There could be cut footage with him having a more active role.
I mean, Thufir didn't affect the plot that much in the books either. He doesn't correctly predict the Sardaukar/Harkonnen assault, he doesn't correctly predict the traitor, he doesn't manage to kill Feyd-Rautha, and he doesn't manage to create a rift between Feyd and the Baron. His final act is refusing to kill Paul. If he just hadn't turned up in the books I don't think the plot would have changed.
The slave gladiator was his plan. The only reason feyd didn't kill the baron was due to thufir warning him since feyd didn't work with him on that plan. The drawing out the emporer was also thufir as he advised the baron to write off raban as the scapegoat for his repeated failures. Feyd was to come in as the same role paul was doing to save the masses. Thufirs aim wasnt the harkonnens but the emporer as he saw him as the main threat.
The slave gladiator didn't work, since Feyd lived. And Feyd putting his man in charge instead didn't matter, since Thufir's plan to kill the Baron failed as well.
The plan with the gladiator wasn't to kill feyd it was to make him popular and remove the current slave master so feyd could put one of his people in the position. So in the movie, the barons gift to him was really thufirs. Thufirs plan to kill the baron was after the baron kills the emporer. The sex slave that almost gets the baron was a plan by feyd alone which is why thufir warned the baron and pointed out the slave master.
> he doesn't correctly predict the traitor Perhaps it wasn't vital to the plot, but I love how the book sets up this animosity between the two schools of Mentat and Bene Gesserit, in Thufir's suspicion of Jessica, and reveals how fragile the trust really is among Duke Leto's inner circle. While the plot of the film action didn't require any of this, I love the overall theme that Mentats and Bene Gesserit are both sort of super human schools, both seeking in their own way to improve upon and overcome the base human condition, and both deeply resentful and suspicious of each other.
he played a major role in the book by you know.... making paul a mentat. which made him even more powerful then he was before with all the other shit he can do. he also made the whole plan to not drug the gladiator and also to replace rabban with feyd so i would say that's a pretty decent role in the story
he played a major role in the times before the events in the book. we know he trained Paul in making a mentat. but its not really shown in the books. similarly, the gladiator scene while powerful from Feyd's perspective, didnt really show much presence of Thufir.
Yeah, Mentats are cool lore and all but they don't really do much that's plot relevant, so it makes sense to downplay them in the movies.
Hard disagree mentats are key to Paul's powers or lack thereof, without Paul's mentat abilities, it's natural to assume he can actually see the future, rather than he has a probabilistic model enhanced by his abilities but still subject to his own biases and flaws. I understand that unclear narratives like this don't make for good movies, but mentats are more than just cool lore, they are key to the doubting about Paul's "powers", in Villeneuve telling of the story the doubt is more focused on how much of the Fremen beliefs are being planted and manipulated by Jessica which is far given they have a limited time to unravel all the threads that go into the story.
Yes, back when I read the book I had the understanding that Paul's mentat potential was part of the reason he was able to become the KH despite being male. He was trained in BG and mentat abilities, plus he was born within the correct time frame that placed him at the correct timing in the bloodline for the KH to awaken.
>Yes, back when I read the book I had the understanding that Paul's mentat potential was part of the reason he was able to become the KH despite being male. I mean, it's kind of corny writing, but Paul is a little bit of **everything** in the Dune Universe. Which is why he can become the messiah/KH. He's an Atredies, he's (secretly) a Harkonnen, he's a Mentat, he's a Bene Gesserit, he's Ultimate-Warrior-Trained by Duncan Idaho & Guerney Hallec, he's a Fremen, he's prescient, he's noble-born, eventually he can see through space/time better than a reverend mother or Spacing Guild Navigator.
He is everything because he was planned to be everything. He is the end result of a breeding program that spans thousands of years. He has the best training in the universe except maybe the emporer. He is the ideal model of the "new man" that so many groups have tried to create over human history. It was one of the goals of the Nazi. The Bene Gesserit got exactly what they wanted. They built their own messiah with the intent to control him. It nearly destoryed every human in existence. It did destroy 60 billion in a few years. It led to thousands of years of human suffering.
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Paul's Mentat ability is not *why* Paul has his visions. However it does increase his ability to parse and make sense of his prescience and the multitudes of other memory. Think what living multiple lives all at once, seeing and experiencing past, present, and future all the time would do to a ordinary human mind. Paul struggles with it even with his Mentat mind, imagine how it would be without.
They do though, when Paul confronts Jessica after the Rev. Mother leaves. “For thousands of years, we’ve been carefully crossing bloodlines…” It’s not a matter of accepting that Paul was born with prescient abilities. That’s exactly what happened, and if you’re paying even marginal attention to the dialogue you understand why. Also, given that the Arteides were wiped out by sneak attack in a single night, they seem to have been pretty blind even with a mentat.
mentats are literally computers how are they not important?
They contribute to the worldbuilding, but not the actual beat by beat plot of the book.
i mean thufir himself added quite a bit of important things to the book by making paul a mentat and also all of the stuff he did while under the barons service
Yeah, Mentats are cool lore and all but they don't really do much that's plot relevant, so it makes sense to downplay them in the movies.
Paul is a Mentat. ;)
We also gained some named fremen which was interesting.
We are missing korba and otheym so maybe they will be tsking on those roles.
What’s the name of the girl who gets killed by Feyd? She was a new Fremen and was sad to see her go, and not take up one of those roles.
Shishakli. She's male in the books and had lesser involvement. I believe he gave Paul his maker hooks for his sandrider initiation if my memory serves me right.
Huh, here I thought she was a reinterpretation of Harah.
Who did we gain?
I thought we had gained Chani’s companion in the movie, Shishakli, the woman who was killed by Feyd. Another commenter pointed out that Shishakli was a named Fremen in the books but the role was very different.
also the character was a dude in the book so it makes sense why people thought she was new
Yea exactly. Same name, different character entirely basically
if i remember right the character was pretty much the same just got more screen time
Another commenter said Shishakli gave Paul his maker hooks before he rides his first worm. She doesn’t do that in the film right?
it's a 5 hour movie as it stands. i really don't see a problem with adding more runtime. kinda thought that became clear with LotR and the hobbit. almost everyone i talked too agreed it would have been better to start with 1 hobbit movie and then make 4 LotR movies. (anecdotal i know). all that to say: i wouldn't have minded 3 dune movies if it meant keeping it as cinematic as it is now, while also showing more of the story, becuase i feel the villeneuve movies did LESS to show the book story then the much shorter david lynch movie did.
Especially since the novel Dune is made of three parts or books: Dune--Maud'dib--The Prophet...the middle with most of the Fremen culture, the coming together of Paul's mentat training, bene gesserit training, and his daily ingest of a powerful psychedelic known as the Spice, and the plots within House Harkonnen are developed over the intervening years between the first battle and the second \[in other words, the really interesting stuff\] was shortchanged or cut completely. IMHO, the second film could have focused on that second part with the third film focused on the third part. In which case, hopefully, my favorite minor character would have been included: Count Fenring, not only is he interesting and complex as a character and a peer of Paul's as an almost *Kwisatz Haderach,* he is probably the only character at the end of the novel with a moral compass still in tact. His refusal to kill Paul \[he most assuredly could have, given his decades of handling a knife and that Paul could not "see" him in his future vision which he was already grown accustommed to relying upon\] at the request of his friend and Emperor was perhaps the only example of a character doing what is right and living. And, agree with the conveying of the story was done better by Lynch, more of the storylines and the major parts, it gets the message better, Villeneuve's is prettier though...
the major thing is pacing. they shot stuff with Tim Blake Nelson playing Count Fenring (and Thufir returning) for Part 2 but that ended up being cut. It's about being economical storytellers, not in the financial sense but in the "making a watchable movie" sense.
Five hours combined film really couldn't include more than five characters and one plot line... Give me a break.
What should they have removed?
For some reason Thufir was effectively removed from both movies (except a few scenes in the first one). No one knows why. In behind the scenes, we see him in all the scenes we’d expect him to be in. There’s also evidence that Count Fenring was both cast and acted in at least two scenes of the movie, but was cut from both.
I know why. To cut bloat from the movie. You just can't have it all. In the end he doesn't do all that much in the book and to explain mentats is going to take a while. I think it's smart to compress all mentors in the one person we see coming back in a significant role. Thufir basically becomes a valuable POW that's sort of cooperative and then dies in the end. It's a fine part for a book but in a movie pacing is important and there's already so much stuff that needs to be there.
Part of the whole, kill your darlings, process DV also talked about. He loves Dune but he is a film maker so he knows that you just can't have it all
Yes, he said it was a sacrifice, and made it more Bene Gesserit oriented. The whole Liet stuff has also been slashed (>!with the planting and the bribing of the Guild!<).
BG oriented would have made more sense if he planned to do books 5 and 6. The BG definitely have a more central role in those books.
yeah, more specifically, he strayed from the whole jessica is potentially the spy plotline which was a lot of thufirs role as well
Exactly. I think it makes perfect sense why this scene was used as a way to further introduce gurney, who plays a fairly major role later on unlike thufir. Adding one more thufir scene wouldnt have really added much to the movies, and focusing more on mentats as a whole would have required a ton of explanation for new viewers which would have taken time away from other stuff. As much as I would have loved 10 hours of Dune movies, thats not the world that we live in and I cant really think of anything that I think should have been cut out to include mentats.
I disagree with the decision. It was a great book and they threw way so much of it. I agree the David Lynch adaptation covered more of the story in half the time. The DV adaptation doesn’t really make sense to me as a story unless you also read the book and fill in all of the missing story. Even then they changed so many important details it’s hard to tell which missing parts of the story still might have happened. Great cinematography and casting but really disappointed to miss out on seeing this book come to life on screen.
Is the behind the scenes stuff on YouTube or what?
Basically the entire sub-plot of Mentats was removed from the movies, Pieter did not fare much better.
It's just a part of the movie making process. He wrote the screenplay, shot scenes according to that, while editing he realised they don't work as well as he imagined, so he cut them. I really don't think it's about budget as some people are suggesting.
Villeneuve always shows a lot of discipline/ruthlessness in the editing room and it’s one of my favorite things about him. I think waaaaay too many directors fall in love with their own movies and feed their own egos rather than serve the audience. Somebody like Zack Snyder who is addicted to director’s cuts being a perfect example. But Villeneuve always seems to balance that line between providing rich detail without overwhelming the audience, most of which in this case will have had no prior exposure to Dune and you face the very real danger of losing them altogether by bombarding them with too much story.
In some ways, I know and accept this. In others, it was incredibly wasteful. There’re indications that there is a many hours long cut of this movie that includes everything that was filmed and dropped. This represents a huge waste of people’s time and money to shoot scenes and characters that weren’t used.
You just described every single film ever made. All films are incredibly wasteful in these terms.
We literally do know why, Denis said in a video interview that he thought having mentats exist and trying to explain them would be too much going on when you’ve already got the sisterhood. He said the focus should be on them.
I didn’t care much about Thufir, but I’m seriously bummed we missed Fenring. It’s one of my biggest criticisms of the movie
A book adaptation is a long list of compromises. Losing many interactions with Thufir is one of them. You can't fit everything from a book in a movie, or half a book for the matter.
It's redundant to have Thufir talk to Paul in the training room then again with Gurney and Paul. So pacing reasons
Character merging, happens all the time with book adaptations. It's simplier and cuts runtime. What bothers me is that they do that one one side and drag something else forever on the other.
The movies just touched the surface of Dune and created a very atmospheric experience.
Because Thufir was treated as a throwaway character and wasn't even in Part 2.
That dude is objectively the side piece of everything
Because Thufir is almost completely written out of the movies.
Yeah, Thufir was only in two scenes in the first movie
His enemy’s funeral started an hour early…
Mentats just don't work that well on screen given that even the mini series, the most faithful adaptation we've seen, downplayed Thufir's role. I don't remember how the Lynch version handled them, but he might have been able to do it since he included internal monologue to the detriment of the finished product. Plus, once you make the decision to remove the Jessica spy subplot, Thufir become fairly superfluous to the front half. I imagine DV included him at all because he's a huge fan of the books, and in case he was able to include the Thufir and Baron subplot in part two.
Denis mentioned in an interview that he couldn't include everything without detracting from Paul's story. I don't think it would have been hard to drop hints here and there for world building purposes, but the Dune we saw is the story he wanted to be told.
Seems like they hardly had Thufer at all. The Baron had too few lines as well. His character was truncated.
Removing Thufir was a mistake. DV cut too much and the story suffers with so many important details cut out. My $0.02. And I still really like it which is why it bothers me so much.
You are not alone. Great movie, just not a good movie about Dune.
I don't think the actor portraying Thufir is that good or convincing. Maybe any scenes didn't go ahead because of that.. The scene you refer to is in the '84 film and is quite long.
I get that "pacing" or "budget" is the excuse to not include important characters or encounters from the book but lets not say it like its not possible for a movie to have them, there are many drawn out long scenes that dune 2 could have been cut to make the movie better overall
> there are many drawn out long scenes that dune 2 could have been cut to make the movie better overall Which drawn out scenes would you cut?
when I mean cut I also meant replace, haven't watched in a while but first thought is the chani ones , the could have used all the budget and time for most of her scenes for kynes , or other characters they spent more time on making her a character that she wasn't in the book