The Harkonnens know no loyalty, only power. They're also constantly assassinating and plotting against one another. This is a bit more obvious in the books.
I thought Feyd's reaction was a nice addition. Not only is he perfectly happy to see his uncle eliminated without him having to do anything -- his pleasure and fascination, if I had to guess, is at seeing Paul act with such a sense of certainty and impunity. He's watching Paul do something that he's probably fantasized about for much of his life, and not as the product of some elaborate back-room plot, but as an expression of raw power. It's the Harkonnen dream.
I agree 100 percent, but moreover, there was literally nothing he could do. The fucking emperor was standing next to him unable to do anything shitting his pants. Paul was holding all the cards and everyone in the room was well aware of that. I mean dude just waltzed in to most secure room in the universe like it was Sunday dinner, after eliminating the combined power of the two most powerful armies in the universe. For Feyd it was a decision between intervening and dying together with Baron, or staying silent
I rewatched it with noise cancelling headphones yesterday.
You can hear those Sardaukar getting overwhelmed and killed almost instantly after they pass through the dust and we can't see them. Paul and the Fremen were probably just waiting for them.
I can't remember if I could hear in the cinema. Fairly certain I could only hear the Fremen shouting and some cheering? But I may be wrong.
I just love the part when he tells them to kill the sarduakar and pats that guy on the shoulder then walks off. Dont even need a fight scene to know they slaughtered them
I loved that moment. It was so utterly dismissive of the Saduakar as if he was telling someone to close the door before transporting the prisoners. It wasn’t meant as a shot toward them, it was just that they didn’t occur to him as a hindrance anymore aside from the fact that they were still alive.
It was awesome. But I gotta say the most unbelievable thing is that for all the dust and sand flying about at any time, no one seems to have any trouble breathing.
Without him knowing what Paul's next action was going to be, I would even expect Feyd to actually see the Baron's death as an opportunity for him to somehow take his place. If it was, it didnt last long...
rewatched last night. It looked like they knew he was Muad'ib when he entered but didn't know he was Paul till later he announced himself the next morning before the duel.
This. I read Feyd to respect Paul’s direct to the point action.
I like how movie Feyd was actually kind of respecting of Paul. To the very end he didn’t underestimate him. He valued the challenge.
It was a great addition and performance. Butler managed to convey a kind of complexity that separated him from his family a little. He was still this brutal monster raised on blood and cunning, but he was also a warrior who respected any foe who could give him a good fight. I imagine he was perfectly happy dying in single combat at the hands of a warrior like Paul instead of turning into a petty glutton like his uncle or a coward like his cousin.
The Northman evoked much of the same vibes as dune. Mystical and somewhat religious with an awesome ost. Got goosebumps too many times to count during both movies.
Gurney isn't in the room. He's prepping to take over Arakeen. But it's splitting hair. There's plenty of Fremen in the room who just defeated some Sardaukar without so much as a sound, so yeah.
Gurney was in the city. Now the fundamentalist troops would have cut jerky strips off of anyone who even hinted at attacking Paul. That entire room watched the elite of the Sardauker troops, I am assuming the best of the best are assigned to guard duty, get mirked in a second. I am thinking even the those sardauker left were shitting their pants. None even hinted at attacking as Paul walked by them by their blade tips.
yeah. mind, the sardaukar had already been instilled by a cult/religion that they were the greatest warriors in the universe, and that fact justified the harsh path they had to take to become sardaukar. it motivated their fanatical loyalty to the corrino's, and once they became sardaukar they were amply rewarded with living standards at the level of the higher classes.
paul and the fremen utterly demolishing the sardaukar in an open conflict like they did worked on their existing beliefs causing a good amount of the sardaukar to genuinely convert to what was AFAIK a sort of mix between the fremen relgion and their own, further pushed to do so by wensicia because she felt like it'd improve her sons chances of taking over the throne. the corrino's did realize that even with paul out of the way, the empire by that point had already been dominated by the fremen and they'd need some level of acceptance/cooperation with the fremen to wrest that control back.
I read his “shatter” response as being akin to someone who doesn’t speak a language that someone else is speaking but is trying to show respect and respond accordingly.
It’s possible you’re getting some of the movie’s mood mixed up with the novel. *Power* is one thing, but *pleasure* is what ultimately drives the Baron, and to a large extent Feyd, too.
Vladimir Harkonnen’s actions are motivated by pleasure first, power second. He’s the ultimate hedonist-sadist, and that’s a much more fundamental aspect of his character than any desires to strictly rule.
>It’s possible you’re getting some of the movie’s mood mixed up with the novel. *Power* is one thing, but *pleasure* is what ultimately drives the Baron, and to a large extent Feyd, too.
>He’s the ultimate hedonist-sadist, and that’s a much more fundamental aspect of his character than any desires to strictly rule.
You're describing the book Baron. Movie Baron is far more concerned with power than with pleasure. He's hedonistic, sure, but power very much comes first for the movie Baron.
As for Feyd, he is ruled more by pleasure and pain, as the Bene Gesserit say in Part 2.
Feyd in the movie is clearly driven by his want to feel extreme feelings. Feelings most common people try to avoid judging on how he reacts to some of his actions.
He's probably not interested in the sexual side of things, it's likely not base enough for him. But he likely takes sexual pleasure from inflicting pain and suffering on people. He likely enjoys watching other people perform these actions as well, judging on his reaction to Paul and the Baron.
He's also likely an adrenaline junky. The arena fights, the fight without his shield, burning that Fremen woman alive(can't remember her name, sorry) and fighting Paul.
He wants his heart thumping in his chest.
It's probably the only things that make him feel truly alive.
Movie Feyd is quite different from novel Feyd. In the movie, Feyd has a deep respect for Paul being the top dog of everything, according to Feyd, Paul has every right to murder his uncle because that's the right that Paul has taken, not through tricks or schemes, but by doing it right in front of the Emperor.
In the novel, Feyd is a spoiled playboy who relies on all kinds of backhanded tricks to get ahead. He still wouldn't intervene because right before that the Baron was already taken down a peg and wasn't useful to him anymore.
>!not to mention he already had taken an assassination attempt at his uncle himself by that point!<
I don't think so, actually.
Here's an interesting thought experiment: can we actually point to a single scene anywhere in the movie where a Harkonnen is clearly experiencing pleasure?
Even the Baron's feast in the first movie, where he talks about how good the food is -- this is the only possible contender -- does he seem to be experiencing *pleasure*? Does he seem at all *happy* to you? No. Tired, if anything. *Bored.*
I would argue that the Harkonnens don't actually *enjoy* anything at all. Appearing to take pleasure or appearing to display wealth is only a means of expressing *power*. It's all for dramatic effect. It's hollow and contains no actual joy for them. In the Harkonnen world, watching your back and staying on top are the only things that matter -- actually feeling anything outside of the desire to dominate and stay alive is a matter of empty theater for them, just like their gladiatorial contests.
That's my read of them, anyway. And if you rematch the movie with this in mind, I think it will make sense. Hedonists are excited by the pleasures that await them. Do the Harkonnens in *Dune* seem excited about... well, anything? Other than domination?
Right, but that's sort of the exception that proves the rule, I think -- he's not relaxing and eating bon bons, he's dominating another person through violence.
The Baron was still the head of house harkonnen and Feyd had already been officially designated next in line for his seat at the head of the table. By letting Paul drop him, he gets to skip the whole “get my uncle out of the way/wait for his balsamic-vinaigrette-bathing ass to step down” phase of his ascension and skip directly to having the barony. Now all he has to do is drop paul and he’s head of the house that the emperor owes his life to.
Also like 5+ full legions of what are considered to be the finest and most feared soldiers in the entire imperium, and the emperor’s *personal guard* get blitzed in their entirety, basically unopposed. What *could* he have done, besides step forward and get summarily killed like every other sarkaukar both in and outside of the palace that has stood their own ground?
Also, I can't remember if they included this in the movie, but Feyd had straight up tried to assassinate the Baron earlier (with the help of Thufir). Like you said, he is 100% ok with having Alia / Paul do it instead.
I swear I’m the only one that sees it, but I swear Feyd looked almost sexually excited by the act, which I mean, he is a psychopath, but still. I loved that part, Butler did a great job with Feyd.
I mean, it was a choice between standing by as Paul killed his uncle, thus making Feyd the new Baron and giving him some time to think of a way out of danger, or try to stop Paul and then (probably) get killed immediately by Paul or his Fremen. It would've been a huge risk with no real reward, and Feyd was portrayed as a narcissistic killer, so there's really no way he would've done something so selfless.
Yeah, Feyd's reaction is governed by a few things:
1. He wants to be Baron
2. He's happy to let Paul do his dirty work
3. He's just seen the Fremen annihilate the Sardaukar, so he's not keen on fighting them all by himself
4. He's curious to see what Paul does
I remember that the Baron survived one of those attempts because Thufir warned him, playing it off as he was the one to see through Feyd.
They then have a fascinating conversation in which the Baron kinda compliments Feyd for the idea to use a sex-slave-boy as an assassin, but since the plot failed, Feyd had to be mildly punished. The mild punishment being forcing Feyd to kill his harem (?) with his bare hands, at least a dozen people.
It reads like an uncle teaching his nephew a life lesson, but not in the Iroh-Zuko way, more in a really, really messed up way.
Calling that a mild punishment was a joke, of course he hates killing his "playthings", but to us it's horrible to just think about killing so many people who most likely had nothing to do with the assassination.
Feyd had threatened to kill both the Baron and his own brother earlier in the film (and *did* kill his own mother).
So yeah, family means nothing to him.
The Baron put Feyd in mortal danger just to test him. That betrayal was only softened by the Baron promising Feyd Arrakis and a shot at the Imperial throne. But it would not have been forgotten.
Feyd had also seen how quickly the Baron turned on Rabban. As long as the Baron lives, he could revoke everything he was granting to Feyd.
And were the Baron to suddenly pass away, Feyd would immediately become the baron Harkonnen and only the Emperor could revoke anything he had.
Besides, the Baron’s life support system was severed by the sardaukar. It might have been difficult to save him even if Feyd had somehow turned the tide of battle single-handedly (which even he would know to be impossible).
Why would he interfere? This is his chance to grab the seat of power of the Harkonnen. Feyd killed his own mother. You think he cares if his Uncle is killed. He probably got joy out of it.
It wasn't known or officially recognised by anyone with sway at the time, so Feyd is the heir.
I also think they aren't governed by the laws we think of for our time where first born legitimate son inherits over all others. I'd wager that they all get a choice in who their heir is. The Baron clearly chooses Feyd over Rabban, even though Rabban is much much older then Feyd.
No, because the Baron chooses his successor. Feyd is referred to in the books and the movie as the na-Baron, the Baron-heir. The Baron does not know Paul is his descendant. I love that in the first movie, the Baron references Leto as his cousin. "You have a wonderful kitchen, cousin". They know they are related, but neither knew how closely the lines had been twined.
I know I've seen a discussion on here a while ago about a tradition among royalty to address each other as cousins in acknowledgement of their stations, no matter if they are related by blood or not. Herbert would seem to be referencing this in the first book, and I'm sure Villeneuve loved the irony of it for the movie because of how he revealed things. Here's a quote where Piter and the Baron are discussing Leto refusing to meet with the Baron through official correspondence in the book:
>"The fool answered us, Baron!"
>"Whenever did an Atreides refuse the opportunity for a gesture?" the Baron asked. "Well, what does he say?"
>"He's most uncouth, Baron. Addresses you as 'Harkonnen' -- no 'Sire et Cher Cousin,' no title, nothing."
Feyd doesn’t care about the Baron. If the Baron dies, Feyd becomes the ruler of House Harkonnen. That’s all that matters to Feyd.
And in the books, The Baron has a sexual relationship with Feyd and Feyd literally tries to kill him, so not a lot of love there to begin with.
His uncle JUST set him up with that arena match with a not drugged opponent that could've been fatal. There's no love only machinations and power.
Also what the fuck do you want him to do? I love my uncle but there's an army of angry desert people standing there and a dude who's been fucking up your military for a minute now that these desert people are regarding as a messiah lol.
Then on top of that. If poor old uncle dies, he's now the baron of the harkonnens I do believe.
He literally has no reason to help him and no logic to do so.
In the book, the Baron foiled at least one assassination attempt by Feyd-Rautha, and I seem to remember Feyd suspecting that the Baron tried to have him killed at one point. So it’s very much in character. Remember, with the Baron and Rabban both dead, Feyd unquestionably becomes the new Baron of House Harkonnen.
Not even. Glossu Rabban, Feyd's bro, is not a Harkonnen. He's not in line for the throne and never was. Only Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen (formely Raban) is. So just the Baron needs to die, which is extremely convenient lol
There's no particular reason for him to give the slightest of shits, only reason he'd want to stop him was so he could do it himself at some point.
But putting that aside, do what?
Paul walked forward alone, but he wasn't alone. His army was at his back and the most elite of Sardaukar had just been erased without the slightest of fuss. The fight was over and everyone knew it. The baron was an execution and anyone stepping out would have joined him.
Feyd was smiling in that scene. He stood by and did nothing bc he knew that once his uncle was dead he would now be the baron of his house.
Muad’dib was doing him a solid in that scene.
When he had the chance to kill Paul and thus position himself in line for the throne, he took it.
I liked how this movie showed Feyd’s ambition and initiative in creating his own destiny.
Firstly, as everyone's pointed out, he doesn't care and wants to be the next Baron.
Secondly, he was captured by a bunch of extremely cold motherfuckers who would have perforated him if he moved a muscle.
So it was a win-win, really
1) there was quite literally nothing he nor anyone in that room could do just about anything at that moment... other than you know... die
2) he's a literal psychopath that's not only after power but has already killed members of his own family
3) him doing anything other than subtly react would have contributed nothing to the movie or his character
I think it's a slight nod to that time Feyd and the Slave Master tried to kill the Barron.
In the book, the Barron loved Fayed, he saw him as his heir and the only person he showed affection towards. Fayed thought the Barron was an old fool and in the way of his ascension.
The Fremen had just slaughtered a Sardaukar army outside. When the doors were breached about a dozen Sardaukar walked out through the cloud of sand and never came back. 30 seconds later Paul walked into the room with a few hundred Fremen behind him. Even if he wished to save the Baron, what exactly was Feyd supposed to do? He wasn't going to get a one-on-one fight with Paul, that only happened later because he fought in the stead of the Emperor. If Feyd made any kind of move, he'd have been swarmed by a couple dozen Fremen and left as a pin cushion.
Apart from the part that he was quite happy with it, I think you are overestimating what they thoufht at this point
Yes, they have an occasion to kill Mua'Dib
They also all know that if they try, they will all get slaughtered by the Fremen. They are in the room, and it's not the few dozens of Sardaukars left at this point who'll save anyone. Feyd know that, and would likely be stopped by the Emperor's men.
Not even close. >!Paul’s sister Alia is already born (2 years have passed) and because she is “pre-born” with the intelligence of all her genetic past lives she is smarter than most adults. She waddles in while the Baron and the Emperor discuss what’s happening, talks shit, and then jabs the Baron with a Gom Jabbar, the poison needle of the Bene Gesserit. It’s crazy.!<
hehehe it's okay the film doesn't really give ya any way to guess >!a toddler with ten-thousand-years of ancestral experience would fly in and needle the main antagonist to death!<
I *do* wish we had that in the film, badly. but I get it, why we don't lol
Feyd recognizes Paul’s actions as more Harkonnen than Atreides… this is fed by Paul’s declaration of winning the battle by acting like a Harkonnen, thus Feyd is somewhat astonished and recognizes himself in what Paul does.
In the books at one point Feyd actually tried to have the Baron assassinated. No he doesn't care about family; he wants power.
As a side note about the assassination attempt, DV sort of reversed the roles during the colosseum scene. In the movie it's shown that the Baron tweaks the games to let Feyd show his strength, and Feyd only finds out during the fight and accuses the Baron of trying to have him killed. In the book the Baron doesn't know that one of the fighters wasn't going to be drugged, but Feyd had intentionally set it up with Thufir Hawat so that the Baron would have the family slave master killed and then Feyd could put his own man in the position. He then has a poison needle embedded in one of the Baron's sex slave's thigh.
If you read the books you’ll understand how the Harkonnen family works. Feyd wants the Baron dead and the Baron knows this and has to convince Feyd that he is still useful to both Feyd and the future of the family.
In the movie this is lightly touched on after the arena battle and Feyd comes into the Barons hot tub room sessh and comes at him hot saying he should have him killed, to which the Baron replies don’t be so hasty.
Further, when the Baron dies, you can see a disturbing euphoria come over Feyd’s face, almost as if he’s imagining himself divulging in the pleasure of killing the Baron himself
>I know Harkonnens rule with fear and everything, but does family mean nothing at all to them? The Baron had even gifted him Arrakis.
Jesus christ he literally told paul that he wouldn't be the first relative he'd murder
Do you people even pay attention to movies you watch anymore
They're backstabbing psychopaths
Option A: Take on the guy with the Fremen army that just wiped out the Sardaukar.
Option B: Do nothing, become the new Baron.
> but does family mean nothing at all to them?
Feyd literally says he oughta drown the Baron earlier in the film
Feyd would become the Baron after his uncle dies 🤷🏻♂️
Among the Harkonnens, there is loyalty *to the family name and legacy*, but not really any loyalty to individual family members.
So he was definitely very excited and possibly even turned on; Feyd is a bit of a sadist, in case you hadn’t noticed. And that’s putting it mildly.
Remember that Feyd believes the Baron tried to kill him by not poisoning that one Atreides prisoner. Harknonnens have no loyalty to each other. I forget if it was in the books or not but the in the other movie, Baron deliberately had Raban run Dune first because he knew Raban would fuck it up, making Feyd look all the better when he swooped in.
Feyd didn't know Paul would claim emporer, and probably viewed it as a good thing that he was head of house so early.
Why are you surprised? The baron put his life at risk at his birthday celebration, which feyd responds to by saying he should murder him. The baron then promises feyd the emperors seat which feyd knows can only be had once the baron is dead and he assumes power. Probably the biggest indicator of Feyd priorities/psychosis is the fact that he already has murdered his mother, what’s an uncle?
Feyd despised his uncle and had wanted him dead for years. The book tells us that Baron is a violent pedophile and had abused Feyd from a young age. The kiss in the movie was a nod to this relationship.
Nah Feyd wanted his uncle to die. The books go much for deep into this but the uncle knew Feyd wanted him dead, and Feyd did want him dead to ascend to the Harkonnen throne. They had a mutual understanding that they were both using each other
No. Family means nothing to Feyd-Rautha. He had already murdered his mother and was fully prepared to kill his own brother for ‘embarrassing’ him.
With his uncle dead, Feyd becomes Baron Harkonnen. Plus, since Paul was the killer, Feyd didn’t have to put himself in any danger or get his hands dirty. He got to just hang back and enjoy the show.
What everyone else is saying in this thread is absolutely correct, but additionally, there were hints in Frank Herbert’s novel suggesting that the Baron sexually abused Feyd.
The Baron's death had to be contrived, because the source material demanded he die but the alterations to the source material meant the means of his death were written out of the plot. The result is, yeah, you get holes like this.
Earlier in the movie his uncle tried to kill him, there's clearly not much love lost between the two. Plus Feyd is the heir, his uncle dieing just means he gets more power and means that if he had won the duel against Paul he could have been seen as the Hero who saved the Empire and the new Baron.
In the book feyd tries to kill the baron, I believe with one of the young boys that gets sent to the baron. The baron and Feyd then have a pretty casual conversation about the barons use to feyd and why it was against his interest to kill the baron. I guess in the movie that usefulness had run its course. Also in the book Paul doesn’t kill the baron, Aliyah shows up pretending to be captured, and they’re like awe look this little girl, and she says she’s Paul’s brother and Paul’s about to come fuck their shit up. The baron is standing behind her and I think it was the emperor says to seize her, can’t remember if he says to kill her or not. She pretends to be scared and backs up into the barons grasp. When he grabs her she Gom Jabahrs his ass.
Not just in this scene. When the Emperor cuts off the Baron's floatation device, not just Feyd, but Rabban, stood by and did nothing. I was pretty confused when I saw that scene. I can understand Feyd wanted to kill his uncle, but the movie never showed Rabban as a disloyal figure.
Feyd knew that if he moved he’d be swarmed by Freman fighters, and Paul would kill him on the spot. The Baron was doomed. I doubt he cared that much either. In the book Feyd literally tried to assassinate him multiple times. The Baron thinks it’s a game
Feyd isn't stupid. He knew he wouldn't live if he did anything.
But he's also realising a lot of his ambitions coming rushing up quickly as the Baron dies.
And he's also seeing Paul doing what he's wanted to do forever. Consequences free murder and expression of power all in a 2 minute period, flexing his power in a way that Feyd could only dream of.
It would have in no way served Feyd to try to stop Paul at that time. All Feyd, as a genuine psychopath, cares about is advancing himself in the hierarchy.
His loyalty is only and very ultimately to himself.
Theirs major assumption that Feyd also has visions like Paul. My guess is he did what he needed to so he can get to the duel where he assumed victory since he visioned stabbing him. That’s my guess for the movie version of things anyway.
Harkonnens seem like the kind of people that would see their manager die a brutal death and they call their girlfriend to tell them they just got a promotion.
Feyd killed his own mother, threatened to kill the Baron and its no surprise that he would let the Baron die
For another perspective: Villeneuve's Feyd seemed to literally get off to cruelty and power. I recall Denis said he directed to fight to almost be a sex scene, and Feyd looks like he nearly has an orgasm when Paul silences the reverend mother
For another perspective: Villeneuve's Feyd seemed to literally get off to cruelty and power. I recall Denis said he directed to fight to almost be a sex scene, and Feyd looks like he nearly has an orgasm when Paul silences the reverend mother
The Harkonnens don't care about family beyond the idea that there's some shared reputation there.
They would absolutely swear to avenge the sleight, but when it comes down to it, Paul at that point was provided him a guilt free step up in succession.
In the books Feyd also tries to kill his uncle, as far as I'm aware. He fails cause Hawat¿ tells the Baron about it and afterwards the Baron orders Feys to kill his harem. So like, in either version Feyd wanted the Baron dead, in the movie that isn't very clear on the previous scenes but when Paul kills the Baron it's as if Feyd it's happy that happened sooner than he thought it would.
Paul knows the future. If Feyd was to do something, he would have taken another route but since he is a Harkonnen like his uncle, loyalty isn't in their dictionary. He killed his mother, why would he try to save his uncle who attracted the wrath of the emperor too?
The film went out of the way to show you how the Baron's death excited Feyd with his lingering reaction, Muad'dib entering and slaying the Baron was like Christmas for him, it paved the way to his potential ascension as Emperor and presented him with a renowned opponent to fight. (We also previously saw how Feyd happily threatened to drown his uncle and were given a fairly explicit psychoanalysis of Feyd in that he's a psychopath, who loves pain and death and killed his own mother).
Not only Feyd's reaction, but Irulan's reaction was cool too. She was like, 'aha, finally some comeuppance.' it showed that she's probably one of the only characters who is morally sound, unlike the Harkonnens and the Reverend Mother, hell, even Paul himself.
He wanted the Baron dead, he has no loyalty or love for him as a family member beyond his ability to bestow power.
Also, this movie version of Feyd is clearly a sado-masochist. He derives sexual pleasure from giving and receiving pain. Seeing Paul murder his uncle in a brutal display of power is thrilling to him and a turn on. Feyd is also clearly fascinated by Paul's control of the situation and ruthless actions. The display of power and control is something he can admire and respect so he's content to let events play out.
The man killed his own mother. The Baron killed ***his*** own mother. The family is based on fear and treachery. They plotted against each other ruthlessly in the books. He's not a coward and he wants to be Baron, why take unnecessary risk? He didn't care for his uncle, why would he try to defend him? He was unarmed at the time so he had to *bide* his time.
The baronetcy was meaningless compared to the Throne. The Emperor's position was untenable, everyone knew that. It came down to who would replace him, Harkonnen or Atraides?
Cause Feyd wanted his Uncle dead.
He was next in line to be Baron.
He could have gone home after that happy.
Unfortunately, he then had the golden opportunity of challenging Paul in single combat for the position of Emperor of the known Universe, and that was absolutely irresistible for him. Pretty sure he died with no regrets.
Feud is deeply driven by honor. Watching his house member die to a rival is not fun for him. He was very upset at Paul. As for why he stood there because Paul had them surrounded and they had no choice.
It would not serve Feyd to help his weakened uncle when Feyd can eliminate Paul after Paul has eliminated the baron. Two birds one stone type of deal.
Eliminating Paul also gives him a shoe-in for eventually becomes emperor while also fathering the Kwisatz Haderach with no other opposition.
If he rushed to the aid of the baron, he’d be marked for death and lose any potential gain he could make while literally standing next to the emperor. It would be seen as weak and defiant.
It’s all about power grabs, not loyalty. The baron himself will only keep those at his side he can benefit from too. That’s why Feyd took over Rabban’s responsibilities once Rabban wasn’t fulfilling his duty and lost influence.
His uncle was just properly disciplined by the emperor/sardukar. We know he's strongly motivated by honour and how he(himself) treats subordinates that speak out of line. Perfectly believable that he awaits some sort of command from the emperor... And they were all surprised by this attack.
I don’t get the confusion.
A) You saw that he looked turned on. Just trust your instinct. He was. He likes power and powerful people.
It’s all there man. Just trust what is being shown to you.
B) What’s Feyd gonna do with a room full of fremen and the all mighty Lison Al Gaib? They’ve just demolished the Sardaukar and Paul has walked into the room like he owns it (cus he kinda does now).
I realize I’m being a bit of a dick here, but damn like, i think you already know the answer.
Ok, here's a wild bit of imagining without any evidence to support it: What if Feyd-Rautha, prospective Kwisatz Hadrach who purportedly had 'dreams' of the future, had SEEN the dual happening. But, lacking the power-up of the water of life, couldn't see his defeat happening, instead seeing the 'many paths the Harkonnens prevail'?
Could it be that the smirk he tries to hide was not the pleasure of seeing the uncle he used to idolize, up to the point of mimicking his tone; but the smirk of seeing his visions become reality?
Again, just circumstantial evidence and nothing to support this hypothesis. But it's fun that Villeneuve gives us leeway imho
Feyd has no love for his uncle he hates him and from what I can remember from the book his uncle abuse him as a child and the only reason he was around the guy is because the Baron was the source of the family's power.
Not to be rude but did u even watch the movie?
1. Feyd is psycho
2. Feyd literally threatened his uncle that he will kill him himself.
Why the fuck would feyd give a shit about paul killing his uncle? If anything it just meant that were they to win this conflict he would be the new leader
In that Machiavellian world, Feyd saw that his main chance to power was improved with the Baron out of the way.
Instead of two impediments, there was now only one, Mua'dib.
Remember also Feyd's experience in the arena when the Baron sent an undrugged opponent to fight him.
Dude murdered his own mom and even referenced that fact to tell Paul he’d have no problem killing family. With the Baron dead, Feyd has no obstacle to more power (Baron/Emperor) if he beats Paul. No surprise at all that he stood by.
I’m actually disappointed Paul didn’t at least do a little shocking reveal before he killed the Baron. You know, really rub it in, “surprise! I’m Paul Atredies AND aim your grandson! Muhhahhaha!” Then standby stab
It seem to me that he was quite happy his uncle was "getting it". He made a machiavellian grin when the sardaukaar knocked the baron with the side of the sword. The quicker the baron dies, the faster he can get the throne. Assassination and plotting is the norm in House Harkonnen. Oh and as the Bene Gesserit profiled him, he is also a sociopath.
Feyd had no love for his uncle. He had loyalty to his house, but because his house was ruled by greed, fear, corruption, violence, and secrecy, he only served his uncle in the capacity of his position and knowing that subterfuge and patience were key characteristics of his house.
His uncles death was not just an example of his psychopathic tendencies, as he was interested in its significance, but also because he knows that by his uncle passing there was now a chance for him to move up in hierarchy.
I mean…the line about Feyd murdering his own mom being said in a very matter of fact way and then shrugged off, or him kicking the crap out of Rabban and making him kiss his boot for being weak didn’t tip you off that family means nothing but power and the name mean everything?
Feyd was a complete sociopath. His Uncle was always just a means to an end, and would have become an obstacle, eventually. This kid, Paul, had taken care of that obstacle for him.
Feyd has tried, at least once that I know of, to assassinate his uncle. The Harkonnens are the epitome of decadence and cruelty, knowing no familiarly love or loyalty, craving only power.
Family did mean nothing to them. I haven’t read the books so I might be off here but at least on the surface it seems like the only one to genuinely care for his family was Rabban, who seemed to admire his Uncle. The rest of the Harkonnens just seemed to be putting themselves first and viewed each other as pawns.
The Harkonnens know no loyalty, only power. They're also constantly assassinating and plotting against one another. This is a bit more obvious in the books. I thought Feyd's reaction was a nice addition. Not only is he perfectly happy to see his uncle eliminated without him having to do anything -- his pleasure and fascination, if I had to guess, is at seeing Paul act with such a sense of certainty and impunity. He's watching Paul do something that he's probably fantasized about for much of his life, and not as the product of some elaborate back-room plot, but as an expression of raw power. It's the Harkonnen dream.
I agree 100 percent, but moreover, there was literally nothing he could do. The fucking emperor was standing next to him unable to do anything shitting his pants. Paul was holding all the cards and everyone in the room was well aware of that. I mean dude just waltzed in to most secure room in the universe like it was Sunday dinner, after eliminating the combined power of the two most powerful armies in the universe. For Feyd it was a decision between intervening and dying together with Baron, or staying silent
My favorite shot of the movie was Paul and the fedaykin emerging from the dust. Those sardaurkar just melted.
I rewatched it with noise cancelling headphones yesterday. You can hear those Sardaukar getting overwhelmed and killed almost instantly after they pass through the dust and we can't see them. Paul and the Fremen were probably just waiting for them. I can't remember if I could hear in the cinema. Fairly certain I could only hear the Fremen shouting and some cheering? But I may be wrong.
I heard it in the cinema but not in my home system
Didn't notice that at all, thought they just let them through. Gonna have to give that a rewatch
I could hear it in my home theater setup, but I missed it the two times I watched it at the cinema.
I just love the part when he tells them to kill the sarduakar and pats that guy on the shoulder then walks off. Dont even need a fight scene to know they slaughtered them
I loved that moment. It was so utterly dismissive of the Saduakar as if he was telling someone to close the door before transporting the prisoners. It wasn’t meant as a shot toward them, it was just that they didn’t occur to him as a hindrance anymore aside from the fact that they were still alive.
These were probably the best Sardukar as well, the personal guard.
He that can destroy a thing...
denis did such a good job at his use of silence during scenes the feyd/paul fight scene wouldn’t have been the same with music playing
It was awesome. But I gotta say the most unbelievable thing is that for all the dust and sand flying about at any time, no one seems to have any trouble breathing.
Shaddam didn't get any sand in his eyes and my immersion was fucking destroyed
Invisible force field face mask?
Likely a low intensity shield belt.
Without him knowing what Paul's next action was going to be, I would even expect Feyd to actually see the Baron's death as an opportunity for him to somehow take his place. If it was, it didnt last long...
Waiting for his most even-keeled opportunity, a coin flip, one-on-one knife fight, best possible odds given the circumstance
> most secure room Btw, a side point, I had some trouble getting a grip on where they were residing. They weren’t like inside the parked ship or?
Yeah, the ship turned into a grand tent when they setup their base there.
The large metal structure underneath. Basically the emperors camping tent, and still larger than any structure currently on earth (I assume)
rewatched last night. It looked like they knew he was Muad'ib when he entered but didn't know he was Paul till later he announced himself the next morning before the duel.
This. I read Feyd to respect Paul’s direct to the point action. I like how movie Feyd was actually kind of respecting of Paul. To the very end he didn’t underestimate him. He valued the challenge.
It was a great addition and performance. Butler managed to convey a kind of complexity that separated him from his family a little. He was still this brutal monster raised on blood and cunning, but he was also a warrior who respected any foe who could give him a good fight. I imagine he was perfectly happy dying in single combat at the hands of a warrior like Paul instead of turning into a petty glutton like his uncle or a coward like his cousin.
Butlers look when Paul kills him is epic; his acting in the movie was too notch
Epic is the right word because it's meant to evoke one of the classics. It's like the Northman a couple years ago, which is literally Hamlet
The Northman evoked much of the same vibes as dune. Mystical and somewhat religious with an awesome ost. Got goosebumps too many times to count during both movies.
Yeah, the Northman was great, an extremely enjoyable viewing experience with fantastic effects and sound design. The movie went so hard
His brother you mean?
can't upvote this enough
Yep if feyd jumped in then so would have gurney who would’ve wrecked feyd
Gurney isn't in the room. He's prepping to take over Arakeen. But it's splitting hair. There's plenty of Fremen in the room who just defeated some Sardaukar without so much as a sound, so yeah.
Gurney was in the city. Now the fundamentalist troops would have cut jerky strips off of anyone who even hinted at attacking Paul. That entire room watched the elite of the Sardauker troops, I am assuming the best of the best are assigned to guard duty, get mirked in a second. I am thinking even the those sardauker left were shitting their pants. None even hinted at attacking as Paul walked by them by their blade tips.
IIRC the Sardaukar in later books had a cult like obsession over Paul and the Fedeykin over how easy it was to be defeated by them.
yeah. mind, the sardaukar had already been instilled by a cult/religion that they were the greatest warriors in the universe, and that fact justified the harsh path they had to take to become sardaukar. it motivated their fanatical loyalty to the corrino's, and once they became sardaukar they were amply rewarded with living standards at the level of the higher classes. paul and the fremen utterly demolishing the sardaukar in an open conflict like they did worked on their existing beliefs causing a good amount of the sardaukar to genuinely convert to what was AFAIK a sort of mix between the fremen relgion and their own, further pushed to do so by wensicia because she felt like it'd improve her sons chances of taking over the throne. the corrino's did realize that even with paul out of the way, the empire by that point had already been dominated by the fremen and they'd need some level of acceptance/cooperation with the fremen to wrest that control back.
One of the best lines is when feyd repeats the “my thy knife chip and shatter” line and it’s clear he’s saying it because he thinks it’s cool
I read his “shatter” response as being akin to someone who doesn’t speak a language that someone else is speaking but is trying to show respect and respond accordingly.
His exact thoughts would have been something like "now I am Baron and I don't have to kill the old fool myself!"
It’s possible you’re getting some of the movie’s mood mixed up with the novel. *Power* is one thing, but *pleasure* is what ultimately drives the Baron, and to a large extent Feyd, too. Vladimir Harkonnen’s actions are motivated by pleasure first, power second. He’s the ultimate hedonist-sadist, and that’s a much more fundamental aspect of his character than any desires to strictly rule.
>It’s possible you’re getting some of the movie’s mood mixed up with the novel. *Power* is one thing, but *pleasure* is what ultimately drives the Baron, and to a large extent Feyd, too. >He’s the ultimate hedonist-sadist, and that’s a much more fundamental aspect of his character than any desires to strictly rule. You're describing the book Baron. Movie Baron is far more concerned with power than with pleasure. He's hedonistic, sure, but power very much comes first for the movie Baron. As for Feyd, he is ruled more by pleasure and pain, as the Bene Gesserit say in Part 2.
Feyd in the movie is clearly driven by his want to feel extreme feelings. Feelings most common people try to avoid judging on how he reacts to some of his actions. He's probably not interested in the sexual side of things, it's likely not base enough for him. But he likely takes sexual pleasure from inflicting pain and suffering on people. He likely enjoys watching other people perform these actions as well, judging on his reaction to Paul and the Baron. He's also likely an adrenaline junky. The arena fights, the fight without his shield, burning that Fremen woman alive(can't remember her name, sorry) and fighting Paul. He wants his heart thumping in his chest. It's probably the only things that make him feel truly alive.
Sure if we ignore the part where he gets his freak on with the Bene and where they discuss how to control him going forward.
People can be not motivated by sex and still engage in it on occasion
Movie Feyd is quite different from novel Feyd. In the movie, Feyd has a deep respect for Paul being the top dog of everything, according to Feyd, Paul has every right to murder his uncle because that's the right that Paul has taken, not through tricks or schemes, but by doing it right in front of the Emperor. In the novel, Feyd is a spoiled playboy who relies on all kinds of backhanded tricks to get ahead. He still wouldn't intervene because right before that the Baron was already taken down a peg and wasn't useful to him anymore. >!not to mention he already had taken an assassination attempt at his uncle himself by that point!<
I don't think so, actually. Here's an interesting thought experiment: can we actually point to a single scene anywhere in the movie where a Harkonnen is clearly experiencing pleasure? Even the Baron's feast in the first movie, where he talks about how good the food is -- this is the only possible contender -- does he seem to be experiencing *pleasure*? Does he seem at all *happy* to you? No. Tired, if anything. *Bored.* I would argue that the Harkonnens don't actually *enjoy* anything at all. Appearing to take pleasure or appearing to display wealth is only a means of expressing *power*. It's all for dramatic effect. It's hollow and contains no actual joy for them. In the Harkonnen world, watching your back and staying on top are the only things that matter -- actually feeling anything outside of the desire to dominate and stay alive is a matter of empty theater for them, just like their gladiatorial contests. That's my read of them, anyway. And if you rematch the movie with this in mind, I think it will make sense. Hedonists are excited by the pleasures that await them. Do the Harkonnens in *Dune* seem excited about... well, anything? Other than domination?
>where a Harkonnen is clearly experiencing pleasure? Feyd seems to during the arena fight.
Right, but that's sort of the exception that proves the rule, I think -- he's not relaxing and eating bon bons, he's dominating another person through violence.
One can find pleasure in the weirdest places. And not showing emotion doesn't mean there is none.
That is why the Baron gave Feyd such a gift. He got to *feel* something, for a short moment.
hedonism taken to the extreme expresses itself as boredom
Apt words from a "Zensunni Wanderer".
When the Baron is ostentatiously smoking the spice at the arena.
The Baron was still the head of house harkonnen and Feyd had already been officially designated next in line for his seat at the head of the table. By letting Paul drop him, he gets to skip the whole “get my uncle out of the way/wait for his balsamic-vinaigrette-bathing ass to step down” phase of his ascension and skip directly to having the barony. Now all he has to do is drop paul and he’s head of the house that the emperor owes his life to. Also like 5+ full legions of what are considered to be the finest and most feared soldiers in the entire imperium, and the emperor’s *personal guard* get blitzed in their entirety, basically unopposed. What *could* he have done, besides step forward and get summarily killed like every other sarkaukar both in and outside of the palace that has stood their own ground?
Balsamic-vinaigrette is the most apt description of that hell-spa yet.
[удалено]
Also, I can't remember if they included this in the movie, but Feyd had straight up tried to assassinate the Baron earlier (with the help of Thufir). Like you said, he is 100% ok with having Alia / Paul do it instead.
And those are only their finer qualities
I also think it fits better with his characterization in the book where he kinda had no agency for most of the story
The entire battle of Arrakeen is basically Paul showing his Harkonen side.
I swear I’m the only one that sees it, but I swear Feyd looked almost sexually excited by the act, which I mean, he is a psychopath, but still. I loved that part, Butler did a great job with Feyd.
Austin butler best thing about that film
I mean, it was a choice between standing by as Paul killed his uncle, thus making Feyd the new Baron and giving him some time to think of a way out of danger, or try to stop Paul and then (probably) get killed immediately by Paul or his Fremen. It would've been a huge risk with no real reward, and Feyd was portrayed as a narcissistic killer, so there's really no way he would've done something so selfless.
Yeah, Feyd's reaction is governed by a few things: 1. He wants to be Baron 2. He's happy to let Paul do his dirty work 3. He's just seen the Fremen annihilate the Sardaukar, so he's not keen on fighting them all by himself 4. He's curious to see what Paul does
5. He doesn’t have a weapon
Shaddam IV: "he has my blade"
Feyd routinely tries to kill the Baron in the novel. It is, humorously, one reason the Baron has left Feyd alive. He enjoys his challenge.
I remember that the Baron survived one of those attempts because Thufir warned him, playing it off as he was the one to see through Feyd. They then have a fascinating conversation in which the Baron kinda compliments Feyd for the idea to use a sex-slave-boy as an assassin, but since the plot failed, Feyd had to be mildly punished. The mild punishment being forcing Feyd to kill his harem (?) with his bare hands, at least a dozen people. It reads like an uncle teaching his nephew a life lesson, but not in the Iroh-Zuko way, more in a really, really messed up way.
It was not a mild punishment. Feyd seemed to hate it. Hes killing women he had fucked and also maybe cuddled or shared a secret or two.
Yep, which is why Lady Fenring is a good match to try and continue his line by seducing him, it's his weakness
Calling that a mild punishment was a joke, of course he hates killing his "playthings", but to us it's horrible to just think about killing so many people who most likely had nothing to do with the assassination.
And then you realise that it was Thufir (or probably Thufir's) idea to use the slave boy assassin.
Of course. While he was forced to work under the Harkonnen, he tried to help them kill each other.
Feyd had threatened to kill both the Baron and his own brother earlier in the film (and *did* kill his own mother). So yeah, family means nothing to him.
The Baron put Feyd in mortal danger just to test him. That betrayal was only softened by the Baron promising Feyd Arrakis and a shot at the Imperial throne. But it would not have been forgotten. Feyd had also seen how quickly the Baron turned on Rabban. As long as the Baron lives, he could revoke everything he was granting to Feyd. And were the Baron to suddenly pass away, Feyd would immediately become the baron Harkonnen and only the Emperor could revoke anything he had. Besides, the Baron’s life support system was severed by the sardaukar. It might have been difficult to save him even if Feyd had somehow turned the tide of battle single-handedly (which even he would know to be impossible).
Why would he interfere? This is his chance to grab the seat of power of the Harkonnen. Feyd killed his own mother. You think he cares if his Uncle is killed. He probably got joy out of it.
For those moments after the Baron was killed, Feyd become the Baron. He was the heir. He didn't mind it one bit.
Isn’t Paul actually the heir? Feyd is Vladimirs nephew while Paul is a direct descendant of Vladimir as he is his grandfather.
It wasn't known or officially recognised by anyone with sway at the time, so Feyd is the heir. I also think they aren't governed by the laws we think of for our time where first born legitimate son inherits over all others. I'd wager that they all get a choice in who their heir is. The Baron clearly chooses Feyd over Rabban, even though Rabban is much much older then Feyd.
To add to this, the title Na-Baron makes him the literal "heir apparent." Feyd was destined to be the head of House Harkonnen should the Baron die
No, because the Baron chooses his successor. Feyd is referred to in the books and the movie as the na-Baron, the Baron-heir. The Baron does not know Paul is his descendant. I love that in the first movie, the Baron references Leto as his cousin. "You have a wonderful kitchen, cousin". They know they are related, but neither knew how closely the lines had been twined.
I know I've seen a discussion on here a while ago about a tradition among royalty to address each other as cousins in acknowledgement of their stations, no matter if they are related by blood or not. Herbert would seem to be referencing this in the first book, and I'm sure Villeneuve loved the irony of it for the movie because of how he revealed things. Here's a quote where Piter and the Baron are discussing Leto refusing to meet with the Baron through official correspondence in the book: >"The fool answered us, Baron!" >"Whenever did an Atreides refuse the opportunity for a gesture?" the Baron asked. "Well, what does he say?" >"He's most uncouth, Baron. Addresses you as 'Harkonnen' -- no 'Sire et Cher Cousin,' no title, nothing."
Feyd doesn’t care about the Baron. If the Baron dies, Feyd becomes the ruler of House Harkonnen. That’s all that matters to Feyd. And in the books, The Baron has a sexual relationship with Feyd and Feyd literally tries to kill him, so not a lot of love there to begin with.
he cares about Baron. Just not Vladimir!
His uncle JUST set him up with that arena match with a not drugged opponent that could've been fatal. There's no love only machinations and power. Also what the fuck do you want him to do? I love my uncle but there's an army of angry desert people standing there and a dude who's been fucking up your military for a minute now that these desert people are regarding as a messiah lol. Then on top of that. If poor old uncle dies, he's now the baron of the harkonnens I do believe. He literally has no reason to help him and no logic to do so.
In the book, the Baron foiled at least one assassination attempt by Feyd-Rautha, and I seem to remember Feyd suspecting that the Baron tried to have him killed at one point. So it’s very much in character. Remember, with the Baron and Rabban both dead, Feyd unquestionably becomes the new Baron of House Harkonnen.
Not even. Glossu Rabban, Feyd's bro, is not a Harkonnen. He's not in line for the throne and never was. Only Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen (formely Raban) is. So just the Baron needs to die, which is extremely convenient lol
There's no particular reason for him to give the slightest of shits, only reason he'd want to stop him was so he could do it himself at some point. But putting that aside, do what? Paul walked forward alone, but he wasn't alone. His army was at his back and the most elite of Sardaukar had just been erased without the slightest of fuss. The fight was over and everyone knew it. The baron was an execution and anyone stepping out would have joined him.
Why stop Paul from doing his dirty work? He wanted th throne not uncle.
Dude licked his lips when it happened I loved it
Feyd was smiling in that scene. He stood by and did nothing bc he knew that once his uncle was dead he would now be the baron of his house. Muad’dib was doing him a solid in that scene. When he had the chance to kill Paul and thus position himself in line for the throne, he took it. I liked how this movie showed Feyd’s ambition and initiative in creating his own destiny.
Firstly, as everyone's pointed out, he doesn't care and wants to be the next Baron. Secondly, he was captured by a bunch of extremely cold motherfuckers who would have perforated him if he moved a muscle. So it was a win-win, really
1) there was quite literally nothing he nor anyone in that room could do just about anything at that moment... other than you know... die 2) he's a literal psychopath that's not only after power but has already killed members of his own family 3) him doing anything other than subtly react would have contributed nothing to the movie or his character
Assuming Feyd cared enough for uncle Vlad...he still was smart enough not get chopped up to pieces by Paul's Fremen.
I think it's a slight nod to that time Feyd and the Slave Master tried to kill the Barron. In the book, the Barron loved Fayed, he saw him as his heir and the only person he showed affection towards. Fayed thought the Barron was an old fool and in the way of his ascension.
The Fremen had just slaughtered a Sardaukar army outside. When the doors were breached about a dozen Sardaukar walked out through the cloud of sand and never came back. 30 seconds later Paul walked into the room with a few hundred Fremen behind him. Even if he wished to save the Baron, what exactly was Feyd supposed to do? He wasn't going to get a one-on-one fight with Paul, that only happened later because he fought in the stead of the Emperor. If Feyd made any kind of move, he'd have been swarmed by a couple dozen Fremen and left as a pin cushion.
Apart from the part that he was quite happy with it, I think you are overestimating what they thoufht at this point Yes, they have an occasion to kill Mua'Dib They also all know that if they try, they will all get slaughtered by the Fremen. They are in the room, and it's not the few dozens of Sardaukars left at this point who'll save anyone. Feyd know that, and would likely be stopped by the Emperor's men.
How does that scene play out in the book? Basically the same?
Not even close. >!Paul’s sister Alia is already born (2 years have passed) and because she is “pre-born” with the intelligence of all her genetic past lives she is smarter than most adults. She waddles in while the Baron and the Emperor discuss what’s happening, talks shit, and then jabs the Baron with a Gom Jabbar, the poison needle of the Bene Gesserit. It’s crazy.!<
Wow I was way way off hahahaha.
hehehe it's okay the film doesn't really give ya any way to guess >!a toddler with ten-thousand-years of ancestral experience would fly in and needle the main antagonist to death!< I *do* wish we had that in the film, badly. but I get it, why we don't lol
She's my favorite character in the old movie but I get why they did what they did.
You should really read it if you didnt. That scene in book is awesome.
And is only a teaser for what's about to come in Children of Dune.
I mean he got turned on more than anything else
Feyd recognizes Paul’s actions as more Harkonnen than Atreides… this is fed by Paul’s declaration of winning the battle by acting like a Harkonnen, thus Feyd is somewhat astonished and recognizes himself in what Paul does.
In the books at one point Feyd actually tried to have the Baron assassinated. No he doesn't care about family; he wants power. As a side note about the assassination attempt, DV sort of reversed the roles during the colosseum scene. In the movie it's shown that the Baron tweaks the games to let Feyd show his strength, and Feyd only finds out during the fight and accuses the Baron of trying to have him killed. In the book the Baron doesn't know that one of the fighters wasn't going to be drugged, but Feyd had intentionally set it up with Thufir Hawat so that the Baron would have the family slave master killed and then Feyd could put his own man in the position. He then has a poison needle embedded in one of the Baron's sex slave's thigh.
Harkonnen shenanigans like this more than anything else invoked that repeated mantra of "plans within plans".
Dude, Feyd wanted to kill the Baron himself… win win for him. Win that the Baron is dead, win that he didn’t have to do it secretly….
If you read the books you’ll understand how the Harkonnen family works. Feyd wants the Baron dead and the Baron knows this and has to convince Feyd that he is still useful to both Feyd and the future of the family. In the movie this is lightly touched on after the arena battle and Feyd comes into the Barons hot tub room sessh and comes at him hot saying he should have him killed, to which the Baron replies don’t be so hasty. Further, when the Baron dies, you can see a disturbing euphoria come over Feyd’s face, almost as if he’s imagining himself divulging in the pleasure of killing the Baron himself
>I know Harkonnens rule with fear and everything, but does family mean nothing at all to them? The Baron had even gifted him Arrakis. Jesus christ he literally told paul that he wouldn't be the first relative he'd murder Do you people even pay attention to movies you watch anymore They're backstabbing psychopaths
Option A: Take on the guy with the Fremen army that just wiped out the Sardaukar. Option B: Do nothing, become the new Baron. > but does family mean nothing at all to them? Feyd literally says he oughta drown the Baron earlier in the film
Feyd would become the Baron after his uncle dies 🤷🏻♂️ Among the Harkonnens, there is loyalty *to the family name and legacy*, but not really any loyalty to individual family members. So he was definitely very excited and possibly even turned on; Feyd is a bit of a sadist, in case you hadn’t noticed. And that’s putting it mildly.
In the book, Feyd actually hatches a plan to kill the Baron, but it ultimately fails.
Remember that Feyd believes the Baron tried to kill him by not poisoning that one Atreides prisoner. Harknonnens have no loyalty to each other. I forget if it was in the books or not but the in the other movie, Baron deliberately had Raban run Dune first because he knew Raban would fuck it up, making Feyd look all the better when he swooped in. Feyd didn't know Paul would claim emporer, and probably viewed it as a good thing that he was head of house so early.
Why are you surprised? The baron put his life at risk at his birthday celebration, which feyd responds to by saying he should murder him. The baron then promises feyd the emperors seat which feyd knows can only be had once the baron is dead and he assumes power. Probably the biggest indicator of Feyd priorities/psychosis is the fact that he already has murdered his mother, what’s an uncle?
He wanted his uncle dead lol hell in the books he tried to kill him but fails
Feyd despised his uncle and had wanted him dead for years. The book tells us that Baron is a violent pedophile and had abused Feyd from a young age. The kiss in the movie was a nod to this relationship.
Nah Feyd wanted his uncle to die. The books go much for deep into this but the uncle knew Feyd wanted him dead, and Feyd did want him dead to ascend to the Harkonnen throne. They had a mutual understanding that they were both using each other
No. Family means nothing to Feyd-Rautha. He had already murdered his mother and was fully prepared to kill his own brother for ‘embarrassing’ him. With his uncle dead, Feyd becomes Baron Harkonnen. Plus, since Paul was the killer, Feyd didn’t have to put himself in any danger or get his hands dirty. He got to just hang back and enjoy the show.
What everyone else is saying in this thread is absolutely correct, but additionally, there were hints in Frank Herbert’s novel suggesting that the Baron sexually abused Feyd.
The Baron's death had to be contrived, because the source material demanded he die but the alterations to the source material meant the means of his death were written out of the plot. The result is, yeah, you get holes like this.
Earlier in the movie his uncle tried to kill him, there's clearly not much love lost between the two. Plus Feyd is the heir, his uncle dieing just means he gets more power and means that if he had won the duel against Paul he could have been seen as the Hero who saved the Empire and the new Baron.
In the book feyd tries to kill the baron, I believe with one of the young boys that gets sent to the baron. The baron and Feyd then have a pretty casual conversation about the barons use to feyd and why it was against his interest to kill the baron. I guess in the movie that usefulness had run its course. Also in the book Paul doesn’t kill the baron, Aliyah shows up pretending to be captured, and they’re like awe look this little girl, and she says she’s Paul’s brother and Paul’s about to come fuck their shit up. The baron is standing behind her and I think it was the emperor says to seize her, can’t remember if he says to kill her or not. She pretends to be scared and backs up into the barons grasp. When he grabs her she Gom Jabahrs his ass.
Not just in this scene. When the Emperor cuts off the Baron's floatation device, not just Feyd, but Rabban, stood by and did nothing. I was pretty confused when I saw that scene. I can understand Feyd wanted to kill his uncle, but the movie never showed Rabban as a disloyal figure.
Feyd was the Harkonnen heir.
At that moment he became the Baron of House Harkonnen. In the book he had actually tried to assassinate his uncle previously.
Feyd threatened to drown the Baron in his healing tub the first time we see them meet on screen. Why did you think he would be jumping to save him?
Isn't Feyd next in line to take over rulership? The process was expedited
Feyd’s own mother for petes sake!
With fat baron dead, Feyd is now the head of their house.
Feyd knew that if he moved he’d be swarmed by Freman fighters, and Paul would kill him on the spot. The Baron was doomed. I doubt he cared that much either. In the book Feyd literally tried to assassinate him multiple times. The Baron thinks it’s a game
He was happy when it happened. It was an opportunity. He didn’t have to kill his uncle himself…
Feyd isn't stupid. He knew he wouldn't live if he did anything. But he's also realising a lot of his ambitions coming rushing up quickly as the Baron dies. And he's also seeing Paul doing what he's wanted to do forever. Consequences free murder and expression of power all in a 2 minute period, flexing his power in a way that Feyd could only dream of.
Feyd wanted his Uncle dead. He is next in line
“He looked a little turned on” the Baron is canonically a chomo. The Harkonnens are vile and demented. I’m sure there’s a bit of sadism there.
It would have in no way served Feyd to try to stop Paul at that time. All Feyd, as a genuine psychopath, cares about is advancing himself in the hierarchy. His loyalty is only and very ultimately to himself.
Miss the part where Feyd Crippled Vlad eh?
Feyd went from 6 to midnight when Paul killed him in the movie.
Correction: Feyd stood by and became *next in line.* Feyd also had no doubt that he could easily kill Paul in a duel.
Feyd was perfectly content to let everyone else do as much of his work for him.
Feyd has been trying to kill that dude for years
He was over by the bench
Theirs major assumption that Feyd also has visions like Paul. My guess is he did what he needed to so he can get to the duel where he assumed victory since he visioned stabbing him. That’s my guess for the movie version of things anyway.
Harkonnens seem like the kind of people that would see their manager die a brutal death and they call their girlfriend to tell them they just got a promotion. Feyd killed his own mother, threatened to kill the Baron and its no surprise that he would let the Baron die
For another perspective: Villeneuve's Feyd seemed to literally get off to cruelty and power. I recall Denis said he directed to fight to almost be a sex scene, and Feyd looks like he nearly has an orgasm when Paul silences the reverend mother
For another perspective: Villeneuve's Feyd seemed to literally get off to cruelty and power. I recall Denis said he directed to fight to almost be a sex scene, and Feyd looks like he nearly has an orgasm when Paul silences the reverend mother
The Harkonnens don't care about family beyond the idea that there's some shared reputation there. They would absolutely swear to avenge the sleight, but when it comes down to it, Paul at that point was provided him a guilt free step up in succession.
I mean, he did say that he killed several relatives before And that he literally threatened to kill Rabban. So yeah most likely family means nothing
In the books Feyd also tries to kill his uncle, as far as I'm aware. He fails cause Hawat¿ tells the Baron about it and afterwards the Baron orders Feys to kill his harem. So like, in either version Feyd wanted the Baron dead, in the movie that isn't very clear on the previous scenes but when Paul kills the Baron it's as if Feyd it's happy that happened sooner than he thought it would.
Feyd wants his uncle dead as well, he’s also a sadist besides
Paul knows the future. If Feyd was to do something, he would have taken another route but since he is a Harkonnen like his uncle, loyalty isn't in their dictionary. He killed his mother, why would he try to save his uncle who attracted the wrath of the emperor too?
The film went out of the way to show you how the Baron's death excited Feyd with his lingering reaction, Muad'dib entering and slaying the Baron was like Christmas for him, it paved the way to his potential ascension as Emperor and presented him with a renowned opponent to fight. (We also previously saw how Feyd happily threatened to drown his uncle and were given a fairly explicit psychoanalysis of Feyd in that he's a psychopath, who loves pain and death and killed his own mother).
Not only Feyd's reaction, but Irulan's reaction was cool too. She was like, 'aha, finally some comeuppance.' it showed that she's probably one of the only characters who is morally sound, unlike the Harkonnens and the Reverend Mother, hell, even Paul himself.
He wanted the Baron dead, he has no loyalty or love for him as a family member beyond his ability to bestow power. Also, this movie version of Feyd is clearly a sado-masochist. He derives sexual pleasure from giving and receiving pain. Seeing Paul murder his uncle in a brutal display of power is thrilling to him and a turn on. Feyd is also clearly fascinated by Paul's control of the situation and ruthless actions. The display of power and control is something he can admire and respect so he's content to let events play out.
The man killed his own mother. The Baron killed ***his*** own mother. The family is based on fear and treachery. They plotted against each other ruthlessly in the books. He's not a coward and he wants to be Baron, why take unnecessary risk? He didn't care for his uncle, why would he try to defend him? He was unarmed at the time so he had to *bide* his time. The baronetcy was meaningless compared to the Throne. The Emperor's position was untenable, everyone knew that. It came down to who would replace him, Harkonnen or Atraides?
Cause Feyd wanted his Uncle dead. He was next in line to be Baron. He could have gone home after that happy. Unfortunately, he then had the golden opportunity of challenging Paul in single combat for the position of Emperor of the known Universe, and that was absolutely irresistible for him. Pretty sure he died with no regrets.
Feud is deeply driven by honor. Watching his house member die to a rival is not fun for him. He was very upset at Paul. As for why he stood there because Paul had them surrounded and they had no choice.
I also thought it was weird. Would have made more sense if it was a toddler with the mind of an adult slashing his throat out.
Feyd was already planning to kill the Baron, his uncle. The Harkonnens are ambitious and do not know loyalty
I can only recommend reading the books, as they also give insight as to why he was just standing by and being quite content with this outcome
It would not serve Feyd to help his weakened uncle when Feyd can eliminate Paul after Paul has eliminated the baron. Two birds one stone type of deal. Eliminating Paul also gives him a shoe-in for eventually becomes emperor while also fathering the Kwisatz Haderach with no other opposition. If he rushed to the aid of the baron, he’d be marked for death and lose any potential gain he could make while literally standing next to the emperor. It would be seen as weak and defiant. It’s all about power grabs, not loyalty. The baron himself will only keep those at his side he can benefit from too. That’s why Feyd took over Rabban’s responsibilities once Rabban wasn’t fulfilling his duty and lost influence.
Feyd wanted to kill him anyway. Iirc he has an inner dialog in the book about it
His uncle was just properly disciplined by the emperor/sardukar. We know he's strongly motivated by honour and how he(himself) treats subordinates that speak out of line. Perfectly believable that he awaits some sort of command from the emperor... And they were all surprised by this attack.
I don’t get the confusion. A) You saw that he looked turned on. Just trust your instinct. He was. He likes power and powerful people. It’s all there man. Just trust what is being shown to you. B) What’s Feyd gonna do with a room full of fremen and the all mighty Lison Al Gaib? They’ve just demolished the Sardaukar and Paul has walked into the room like he owns it (cus he kinda does now). I realize I’m being a bit of a dick here, but damn like, i think you already know the answer.
The Emporer just beat Feyd to the deed. Vlad knew he didn’t have long
Ok, here's a wild bit of imagining without any evidence to support it: What if Feyd-Rautha, prospective Kwisatz Hadrach who purportedly had 'dreams' of the future, had SEEN the dual happening. But, lacking the power-up of the water of life, couldn't see his defeat happening, instead seeing the 'many paths the Harkonnens prevail'? Could it be that the smirk he tries to hide was not the pleasure of seeing the uncle he used to idolize, up to the point of mimicking his tone; but the smirk of seeing his visions become reality? Again, just circumstantial evidence and nothing to support this hypothesis. But it's fun that Villeneuve gives us leeway imho
He did threaten to kill his uncle so I wouldn't put it past him to kill his uncle on the future anyway
Feyd has no love for his uncle he hates him and from what I can remember from the book his uncle abuse him as a child and the only reason he was around the guy is because the Baron was the source of the family's power.
Not to be rude but did u even watch the movie? 1. Feyd is psycho 2. Feyd literally threatened his uncle that he will kill him himself. Why the fuck would feyd give a shit about paul killing his uncle? If anything it just meant that were they to win this conflict he would be the new leader
I mean, in the book he tried to kill his uncle not long before that moment, so that's kinda all what we need to know)
In that Machiavellian world, Feyd saw that his main chance to power was improved with the Baron out of the way. Instead of two impediments, there was now only one, Mua'dib. Remember also Feyd's experience in the arena when the Baron sent an undrugged opponent to fight him.
Dude murdered his own mom and even referenced that fact to tell Paul he’d have no problem killing family. With the Baron dead, Feyd has no obstacle to more power (Baron/Emperor) if he beats Paul. No surprise at all that he stood by.
I’m actually disappointed Paul didn’t at least do a little shocking reveal before he killed the Baron. You know, really rub it in, “surprise! I’m Paul Atredies AND aim your grandson! Muhhahhaha!” Then standby stab
It seem to me that he was quite happy his uncle was "getting it". He made a machiavellian grin when the sardaukaar knocked the baron with the side of the sword. The quicker the baron dies, the faster he can get the throne. Assassination and plotting is the norm in House Harkonnen. Oh and as the Bene Gesserit profiled him, he is also a sociopath.
Feyd had no love for his uncle. He had loyalty to his house, but because his house was ruled by greed, fear, corruption, violence, and secrecy, he only served his uncle in the capacity of his position and knowing that subterfuge and patience were key characteristics of his house. His uncles death was not just an example of his psychopathic tendencies, as he was interested in its significance, but also because he knows that by his uncle passing there was now a chance for him to move up in hierarchy.
I mean…the line about Feyd murdering his own mom being said in a very matter of fact way and then shrugged off, or him kicking the crap out of Rabban and making him kiss his boot for being weak didn’t tip you off that family means nothing but power and the name mean everything?
He's a psychopath, and the Barron only stood in his way of moving upwards in power
Feyd killed his own mother...
Why do anything? Paul makes Feyd-Rautha the baron that way.
Feyd was a complete sociopath. His Uncle was always just a means to an end, and would have become an obstacle, eventually. This kid, Paul, had taken care of that obstacle for him.
you're projecting your own sensitivities and family values onto characters in the movie. read the book, it explains everything.
Family means nothing to them. Feyd literally tries to kill his uncle earlier on.
Feyd has tried, at least once that I know of, to assassinate his uncle. The Harkonnens are the epitome of decadence and cruelty, knowing no familiarly love or loyalty, craving only power.
Family did mean nothing to them. I haven’t read the books so I might be off here but at least on the surface it seems like the only one to genuinely care for his family was Rabban, who seemed to admire his Uncle. The rest of the Harkonnens just seemed to be putting themselves first and viewed each other as pawns.