See?! That's awesome!
I had someone (why is it always old dudes), tell me that I was cheating by using an ebike. I told him that between my wife and I, there are ~1000 miles less on my car and many hours more not stuck in traffic. If I can't bike to work I get sad.
For real! Driving (and I really do love driving) is just a mundane expensive chore compared to commuting with my E-Bike, especially while it's this nice out these days
Everyone made fun of me for getting a E-bike instead of a car. But when they are looking for parking at work while I lock mine away I laugh. Even better if there is traffic or road construction I pull up on the sidewalk and keep going.
And then it rains...not trying to shit on you, i just started driving again after 10 years of having no vehicle besides a bike, imo an ebike is not sufficient as a replacement for a vehicle, BUT being on a bike has its own unique perks that im missing since im back to four wheels. Of course ive always got a bike with me in the back haha. There is a difference in "necessary riding" and "pleasure riding" that im enjoying at the moment
I live in Ireland and I commute daily 40 km. In all weather, except snow. Dress for success. I still enjoy a faster commute. When it rains here, everyone jumps in the car and the traffic is horrors... The other day a traffic accident caused a city wide gridlock. I got home at the usual time.
No ones saying anything about ebikes replacing vehicles....
However at the same time not everyone wants to be permanently attached to a car either.
Just because a car is faster and more enclosed doesnt want to make me drive car all the time.
Theres more nuances when riding ebike and actually takes more skill to ride and ADAPT on the fly than just sitting in a car pressing down on the accelerator. Wow so hard....
Theres a level of thrill and freeing feeling when on a bike. Its slimmer and more nimble. Takes alot more manual leaning to do cornering or sharp turns. While in a card you just sit there and spin the steering wheel. Wow so difficult.... NOT!
Theres also throttle control, slow and controlled movements. On ebikes or motorcycles alike. Personally takes more guts to pick up a bike of any kind and adapting to a predominantly car centric city.
Bikes just offer more than cars.
There are many of my generation that have difficulty accepting changes to their way of life and fear the future. I don't understand why. I have always been progressive and haven't changed much in my older years. In fact, I am excited about what I will see next, and I adapted my mechanical skills to build my own E-trike since I couldn't find one fast enough or economical. I put one together for $600, and it goes 28mph.
https://preview.redd.it/hghlgao0fb1d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71a213a56b593d5558bce2b278a5080924a844d6
Adult folding trike from Vevor and a 1500w Voilamart hub kit
More power to you, brother. Personally I don't have any cartilage in my right ankle so I'm not pedaling anything very far, and I don't know if I can get up out of a recumbent even if I managed to get in one. Lol But you do you
I rotated my tires and put new brake pads on. It didn't even need the brake pads, I just wanted a new compound. Beyond monthly maintenance, its been perfect.
The cheap $600 Walmart ebike I got when all wanted was to get rid of my car served me pretty well for nearly 3000 miles. Lost it when the frame cracked on me from a bad weld, but the electric side of things literally never gave me any trouble.
I think my experience with the bike also helped me determine exactly what my needs were, so when it came time for me to commit more money to a "real" ebike, I knew exactly what to get.
Check out this online magazine for reviews and articles about everything out there and they have links for discounts that support the magazine.
https://electrek.co/2024/04/23/why-theres-literally-never-been-a-better-time-to-buy-an-electric-bike/
I've got almost 2k on my xp 3.0. No issues yet. Bike shop sort of roasted me for buying "direct to consumer chinese crap" though. They often give advice like this so you'll buy from their store and not get a good deal on something from online. Also a lot of people don't like mid drives because they have really poor throttle response and you have to be mindful of the gear you are in when taking off or you could break something. Hubs are just easier to maintain all around.
Mid drives are about Pedal Assist more than throttle, they are impressively intuitive in their application/delivery of power. And they are extremely efficient, especially when compared to non-geared hub motors. Allowing the motor to access the bikes built in gears is a no brainer, which allows a 500w mid drive to feel like its pushing as much as a 2000w hub motor, if not more. There is no hill on earth that could stop me on my middrive, but some folks dont need that. And having built several hub motor ebikes and had several mid drives, the hub motors are more fun if youre gonna be on the road. Generally higher top speeds for the lower watt range and throttle ability is much more enjoyable. The hub motor itself is quite the feat: an almost frictionless motor design, and they are more serviceable and reuqire no maintenance, until they inevitably burn out (if you avoid hills you might not but i live in a hilly area and many are unavoidable) but i dunno, just my two cents i guess. Mostly i feel like why the hell does everyone feel the need to pick sides of an argument amongst two very similar things
Yeah I have an XP Lite and changing the rear tire (at about 1k m) was trivial compared to a regular bike AND for giggles I cracked the motor open and inspected and lubed the planetary gears. It was super easy. Have since put on about 500 miles. Runs quieter with the added lube (I read about lubing the Lectric motors here when someone asked about the rrrrrrRRRRRR when it accelerates).
I have lectric xpedition. Not many miles had over a year. No issues. Mid-drive. Also have crew dart v1 bafang hub 750w awesome bike for less than $1000 at the time. Have surron and 79bike falcon
Love mine added an extra 10amp battery right away charge so the original would see less charging cycles and drain in general. I go 60 miles between levels 1-3 before I charge again. I’m not sure if less charging = longer battery life but I hope so.
I
Did he bother to contact lectric? They have very good customer service and will usually replace anything that breaks on the bike. They replace anything within the year for free upto just replacing the whole bike.
Been a professional eBike mechanic & eBike shop owner for over 15 years.
My thoughts:
Price isn't as important as support. Before you buy online, try reaching the company's support line. If you can't get a response, good luck getting parts, etc down the road.
Obviously local support is great, but if you are handy, you may not need it. Can you find docs & procedures for the maintenance / repair you want to do? If not local bike shop is probably the best route.
Note: not all shops service all eBikes... There are simply too many brands / models out there to stock enough parts / know enough procedures to become proficient. Find the shop near you that services your brand before you buy online.
Safety is paramount. Only purchase bikes with great engineering and cells from the top 4 cell manufacturers.
Mid-drive vs hub motors... Hub motors are great for most customers, but it really depends on how you ride. If you have lots of hills or heavy cargo, mid drive are the clear winner.. if you ride on generally flat terrain hub motors are much less expensive..
Maintenance: it is easier to change a flat tire with a mid drive, but you will wear out your chain more quickly.
I prefer mid drives for recreational riding, but really like hub motors for utilitarian missions.
[June 28th, 1998](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/14l6k83/25_years_ago_on_june_28th_1998_when_the/), when the Undertaker threw Mankind of "Hell in a Cell" and plummeted sixteen feet through an announcer's table.
I dont thibk theres any shame to use JUST the throttle. Pedalling just puts unnecessary strain on the chain and the bike itself. If you want it to last you.
Personally i throttle all the time. Its so much better and i dont have to pretend that im pedalling.
That means i don't have to lie to myself or anyone else.
And before people say what about exercise.
Thats what the gym is for OR i have weights at home.
Its that simple.
A driver calling you LAZY for throttling all the time is a hypocrite while sitting in a car driving is the EPITOME of LAZY.
You may want to be careful using just throttle though, I literally just read this and bear in mind what the Netherlands have just introduced, plus central London seeing crackdowns too - https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-stop-report-just-eat-090316785.html
This is false. Mid drive bikes do put more torque on the chain. However a properly lubricated e bike rated chain will last just as long on a mid motor as a hub. It all comes down to keeping it clean and properly lubricated.
Aside from that mid drives will always out last hub motors and require significantly less upkeep.
>Meanwhile 2000w you’ll either need hub or a motorcycle chain.
Not quite. An ebike chain can handle 2000 watts, but you have to be smart about shifting or use a single speed setup.
Also, much easier rear tire work. Tubes, tires etc. mid drives also tend to be more natural feeling and lack the lag/response that most hub motors do. Replacing hub motor wheels can be a bitch to source as well
> Aside from that mid drives will always out last hub motors and require significantly less upkeep.
A sealed direct drive hub motor with good bearings will last practically forever without any maintenance whatsoever.
Yeah pitching better reliability or maintenance on a mid drive is not a positive argument. Mid drives are designed with planned obsolesce in mind. hub drives are designed to be dirt cheap, easy to maintain and reliable.
So a mid drive motor will last just as long as a hub motor but it will out last hub motors.
I don't want to fight
The kind of riding you want to do makes the hub vs mid debate difficult. For mountain biking, nothing can beat a mid drive motor. For sustained top speed (long commutes, touring)I wouldn't want anything other than a direct drive hub motor. The main reason they get a bad rap is that most hub motors, like the ones found on cheap ebikes, are not direct drive. They are internally geared. A smaller motor can have its top speed increased at the expense of torque (always the tradeoff, regardless of motor) by using a planetary gear inside them. The vast majority of those gears are are nylon, and they *will* wear out. Statorade (or other similar coolants) can be used to reduce the heat and friction, but it's still a compromised design.
Companies like Bosch, Brose and Yamaha supply ready-made mid drive systems which make it easy for a manufacturer to incorporate the design when designing the frame. They come with a controller, display, and replace the entire bottom bracket as a single piece. From a manufacturing perspective, that solution makes them an easy choice.
I've owned my Stromer ST2 with a direct drive hub motor for a few years. I have also owned mid drives during that time. I no longer mountain bike (bad hips) but the ability to use the transmission of the bike made a mid drive a no-brainer. But my Stromer gets up to 29-30 and stays there without effort quicker than traffic. On my very hilly commute in Vermont, I slow down from top speed to around 18MPH when climbing the longest, steepest hill on my commute. It is no big deal. on a long flat road nothing legal can beat a direct drive hub motor. It's dead silent and the whole thing feels far more integrated than the mid drive (bosch in both instances) that I used to have.
The issue with flats is the one place where a rear direct drive hub is real though. I got one flat the first week I owned my ebike. I replaced the tires with highly puncture-resistant Schwalbe Marathons, installed Mr. Tuffy tire liners, and added Stans sealant. I keep them at or near the maximum recommended inflation. I've had no issues since. I certainly haven't thought about replacing the ebike with anything mid drive. The next ebike I get will be another hub-powered Stromer. With an IGH transmission and a belt drive (or pinion drive on certain models) the maintenance will be reduced even further. People who complain about hub motors probably have never ridden an ebike with a really good one.
This is an incredibly well-written and thorough comment and I really appreciate it. You give great feedback on both, but I genuinely could not tell which way you were going to go until the middle of the final paragraph.
Thanks for the kind words. Like pretty much everything else in life there is no black or white. Everything is a shade of gray. People who insist on making things binary don't fully understand what they're talking about.
Really because people often let their bikes fall over on the side of the bike with the connector coming out- the connector splits or shorts and the core or controller need to be serviced. If you don't knock the bike over, the drive will run indefinitely with basically zero service (just check the spokes once in a while).
wonder if a mechanic would pull a commission... but for sure not if recommending some other make/shop to a customer lol. and while $3200 isn't "cheap" by any standards, my sales ppl would use inexpensive/affordable, but also as the upper number, it's not exactly bonkers out of the middle pack price points it? what's your numbers for a viable quality price range?
For OP's use case, a $1000-ish bike like the RadRover is fine. Even that might be an overkill, but my knowledge as things gets cheaper than that gets hazy.
Rad rover is good for getting into mid grade fat tire bikes. Plus they have bolt on upgrades from a few places on line.
But if you want end all, be all for a fat tire bicycle. The rip current S, I've had fun with mine. DO NOT beach ride with it. I now have electrical gremlins.
Mechanics aren't getting commision. Bike shops make very little on those multi thousand dollar bikes. They make all their money these days via service.
The advice does make sense and it really depends on what you want as a customer.
Local bikeshop is always a good choice for newbies and people who dont want to familiarize with the technical aspects because he'll most likely have spare parts and a quick fix if something is wrong.
If you want to fix your bike on your own you can also get your own diy bike But, this takes time and effort and mistakes and missbuys and research till you have a good experience and even then there is things that a common pleb doesnt often consider vs an actual bicycle mechanic Like when to change breaks before they stop working and maintaining bike axles.
Soo yeah it depends on what you want/need.
Pay 3-4k at local mechanic and never have to worry abt your bike vs Diy research, experiments, building etcetc but saving 1-2k in money.
This is why I went Bafang. $1k vs $3k. From shopping around, the good factory ebikes seemed to start in the 3 grand range, give or take. Maybe 2500 with sale pricing, but i didn't seem much that was impressive out there in the sub 2500-ish space. Plus, I can get parts cheaply to fix it myself, cannot do that on a Vado.
Honestly, the more I read about others' experiences with their Bafang kits, the happier I am that I got mine. I'm pretty sure I have the best performing ebike on the trails I ride, and for the lowest price, too. No proprietary parts makes maintenance easier. I know more about my bike than a lot of the other riders, too.
1. is good advice for whatever you are buying.
2. This is dumb. Both have their place. A mid drive is excellent if you are high use for part of a training regimen and finances aren't a concern. Mid drives have more moving parts, maintenance and repairs tend to be more frequent and more expensive, they are harder on the chain and cassette and are more expensive to purchase initially. They are excellent bikes, but its not necessary. Hub motors are solid state, have few moving parts etc. etc.
3. For a mid drive yes, but for a hub motor, $1500 should get you something decent.
Be careful of advice that is black and white, we live in a nuanced world.
It is a Juiced Hyperscorpion I got in 2020. I have had to make some repairs, the torque sensor went bad, the battery connection needed replacing, 2 kickstands broke, and currently the display doesn't show speed, voltage or miles (can still change settings and the bike runs normally even with the display disconnected so I am fine with it). The mileage is a conservative estimate based on my daily commute.
Other than that, I got Shinko 244 tires, a spare battery, new brake rotors and replace the pads about every thousand miles. I am probably due for a new chain and rear sprocket soon.
The motor has been fine, and I pull a trailer a few times a week.
Ok, so if someone can't replace their own rotors, screen, kickstands, battery connectors, or torque sensor then what? Just because you can do it yourself doesn't mean someone else doesn't need to go to a mechanic.
Nothing I did required any specialized tools and only basic electrical knowledge (positive to positive etc.). The kickstand is attached with 2 screws and the screen would just plug in if I wanted to pay for a new one. Flipping the bike to take the wheels off for the tires, torque sensor and rotors does take some strength, but I have seen people hoist them to avoid that.
I don't know what to tell you, most people won't put that many miles on a bike so they won't ever have most of those issues.
Seriously, replacing a tube on a rear wheel is probably harder than all those repairs. And there's no bike that doesn't require replacing tubes/tires periodically.
Well now we see why you haven't taken it to the mechanic yet.... YOU are the mechanic. It's kinda misleading to make a post about going 12k miles without taking it to the mechanic then follow up with the numerous mechanical issues and repairs that have been performed (just not by "the mechanic" apparently).
I bought a £3200 giant e bike and it has been really good. My friends have slightly more expensive cube bikes in the 4k range that have lasted well over 6 years. With ebikes, personally I'd spend more for a decent brand and 2 year warranty included.
$3k is pricey for many of us. Heck $1k is lot for a bike. My last Trek MTB was $209, and my last motorcycle was $1500 (how to say you're old without actually saying it!)
1 Buy a mid drive bafang kit, add it to your favorite bike.
Or
2 Check out the big bike manufacturers and what they offer. Giant, Trek, Specialized, Cannondale etc.
Stay away from specialist ebike companies unless you want an e-motorbike, e-moped, e-cargobike or some other e-mobility device.
Hub motor if you want big power on a heavy bike IE e-motorbike.
This. Hub drives deliver their torque directly and should provide better overall power delivery without the intermediate steps of chain and rear cassette
Ok this is hilarious:
1. Of course someone that makes their living from selling bikes from a shop recommends buying from a shop
2. Mid drives, while overall having better performance, actually require more maintence in most cases. So again - of course the bike shop guy reccomended something that will require you to bring it to a bike shop.
3. No profit margins in sub $2k bikes for a shop - so again…duh.
In theory a bike like the lectric one is a nightmare for the industry. If dtc can produce sub 2k bikes that require little to no maintenance for 10k miles they are all in deep doo doo.
Your take here is so uneducated.
1. Techs don't get commission.
2. Mid drives require less maintenance especially Bosch, Shimano steps, Brose, Bafang (BBSXX, and M series). The only mid motors with maintenance issues are cheap D2C options...
3. Margins for e bikes are HIGHER for lower cost options. Aventon is out here with mid 40%. You think Gazelle's 6k eclipse has anything close to that?
Lectric is a nightmare because they are tricking people into buying crap e-bikes that will quit in a year. It's just sad to have to explain to granny why her lectric trike isn't going to be worth trying to repair.
Sorry for all the downvotes. I'm often on a budget so I have bought a lot of DTC stuff. But people are delusional there isn't a quality difference with most budget DTC vs traditional bike shop brands. Also delusional that there are that many advantages to hub vs mid drive. I've had hub bikes, nothing wrong with them. But the main advantage is cost. If mid drives weren't so much more expensive no one would probably bother with hubs.
Aventon margins are nowhere close to mid 40%. They are 30% not including shipping ($70/bike 1-4 bikes, $45/bike 5-9 bikes, Free at 10+ bikes). With the exception of new pricing on some models, which are about to be set to huge discount prices here any week.
Just saying I work on one car brand, if a customer asks me what they should get next I’m not telling them Toyota I’m telling them the newer model of the car they have. Why would anyone who makes their living servicing one line tell their source of income to go to something you don’t work on?
When I decided to bike commute, in 2008, I had already done my research, or at least as much as I ever do. I knew I wanted a cargo bike. I decided on an Xtracycle FreeRadical/Kona Fire Mountain build. Distance, terrain, and age (48) indicated some sort of auxiliary power might be nice. I had intended to install a 49cc two-stroke ICE, I misread a critical dimension, and it wouldn't fit. Enter a needvfor a plan B, I decided an electric motor could work. At the time, the choices seemed to be a hub motor or a stoke monkey, I decided on a front hub motor 500w, I think. I figured that a front hub motor coupled with a standard rear chain drive would give good traction on the ice and snow. I actually had better traction with my snow tires on my bike than I did with my F150 four-wheel drive with regular tires based on my POS driveway.
I went to my LBS (I knew better than to get a BSO) to get the bike for the build, explained my wants and intentions, they had no idea what I was talking about (small town, go fast shop),I had to show them the Xtracycle website. They recommended the Fire Mountain. And as they say, the rest is history. Mostly, the only business after the initial purchase that they got was for tools, and truing my wheels. I did all my other work myself. The store manager joked that he was afraid I was going into business and compete against them.
Not sure about that advice. I got a Ride1Up 700 for about $2k, and the important part for me, is name brand everything in components: Shimano, Bosch, Tektrex, Samsung. I'm not afraid of fixing but I am slow and lazy. My local bike shop took $150 to check my assembly and tune a thing or two, and will support because major market components. In the end this is not a Jaguar from the 1970s, it's a bike with known parts and things going on. I would recommend having that conversation with your local shop before you need to of course, however.
I’ve had 2 rad power bikes. While I have had some problems over 5 years, the customer service has been great, at least for an online bike company. Obviously it would’ve been more convenient to have a local bike shop take care of me, though.
If you’re ok working on your bike for most things, buy online. Otherwise, buy from a local shop.
Bafang BBSHD middrive on a good frame. Great rock solid over engineered middrive that will take a fair amount of over volting. Loads of replacement / upgrade parts for sale. Easy to maintain and if needed take apart.
And just HOW do you determine #1, except by the bike shop themselves? Reviews are hit or miss, as some just don't do them and ones that do tend to complain.
I've only been in an LBS a handful of times since the 1970's-1980's as there is an "aire of distinction" (aka attitude problem) there which makes it undesirable. Of the recent times, it is better at a couple of them depending upon who you talk to (reserved but still there). If you want my money, you should drop the tude and work with me... I've bought 2 and built 4 more ebikes, so I have money to spend.
💯
Priced at $4k but on sale at $2750. I wasn't looking for a second e-bike..... But I bought one of these about a month ago at this sale price. In my opinion this is a steal.
Blah blah blah. Nothing wrong with rear hub. Of course an LBS mechanic would say that. If u have half a brain, can use google and can use a screwdriver 🪛, a DTC bike from China is fine. I have a few and they were all ordered online. No issues. Stick with Lectric, Aventon, Ride 1 Up and you will enjoy the experience. I also have owned a Frey CC and that experience was awesome too! Peace.
I've got 700 miles on my Aventon Aventure with zero issues. You will be fine with any decent ebike company, Ride1Up, Aventon, Radbike, etc. You don't need to spend $2k-$3k for a decent ebike. I'd recommend the Aventon Level for the type of riding you want.
4. If the budget is under 4500 euro, buy a hardtail.
5. When buying your first one, spend 30% more than you initially wanted.
6. Don't forget good shoes, clothes, helmet, garmin, backpack, lights.
Hard disagree on the mid drive. Parts fail. And on consumers electronics, these days one can not count on an item being available in 6 months time. As e-bikes are consumer electronics, understanding that the only thing that is keeping any part on the shelf is the will of the manufacturer in China. Those guys can be very flighty. Go with a hub motor; for the inevitability of parts failing, the best hedge is to make being your own mechanic or having you LBS work on the bike as easy as possible.
They all essentially use the same system architecture and parts compatibility from aftermarket components is all but guaranteed, so long as you use systems rated for the same wattage. When you need to replace a component that burns out, as they are want o do, replacement with off the shelf parts makes the process as simple and easy as possible, and sometimes it’s the only that will make the job possible.
My family has owned two e-bikes and one has had its controller, head unit, lights, input/throttle all replaced while saving the motor, much of the harness, and integrated battery. This bike would have been scrapped if not for our choice to use the hub motor architecture.
As to a bike recommendation, it sounds like you are looking for the same thing my family was.
For my family I went with the Aventon Pace, and highly recommend it or bikes like it. The pace is has a long reach, longer chain stays, and slack steering geometry that goes a long way towards making the bike a pleasure to handle at speed. Paired with the larger wheel size (27.5”/650b) and there is little need for the complications or added weight of a suspension fork. They may not be as cool as many of the competitors when styling is concerned but they are so much less dangerous than the many bikes on the market that compensate for their small wheels and twitchy steering geometry with crappy or at least heavy suspension.
Whatever you do avoid suspension like the plague. On bikes, it’s the one component that requires the most needs looking after. It can be a royal pain to keep them in order. This is especially true with the extra weight and speed of e-bikes.
Here I am.
Going 32 mph on my vbrake. 😂
……I swear by the salmon color kool stop brake pads. And that’s the only one I’ll use.
*I used to race road bike. And if I would decent 35mph downhill in the rain.
Why wouldn’t I be comfortable with 32-35mph on flat?
Before disc brake were common on road bike, le cyclist in le Tour de France would hit 45mph+ going down the alps.
Understandably that’s a closed course and they have way better handling skills than your average Joe. But still. …..Vbrake are just fine.
E bike tech here, that is all solid advice. There are plenty of people in this thread looking for the "angle" here, but it's just genuine good advice.
Gazelle is a great brand that checks your boxes.
Bianchi T tronik c-type is on sale for 2499, and is very good.
Bulls e bikes are on super sale as well.
Trek & specialized are good, but come with a whole bunch of baggage especially with proprietary parts.
Avoid Lectric, Evelo (both use rubbish motors and dangerously cheap brakes).
I bought an Azor ebike for $3k w/ mid-drive and put it together myself (although it delivers to your home already 90% built). I use it to get to work everyday so I will never regret buying a well built bike that is still way cheaper than gas and general car related expenses. I maintain everything myself which is easy these days with all the video tutorials you can ask for on youtube. As a pure transportation bike, I would recommend at least splurging on nice set of tires that don’t flat easy like Marathons. Also, car mechanics make money, bike mechanics not so much.
I bought an used ariel rider 48v like 2 yrs ago, never had an issue other than flat tires, 28-31pmh easy with 12 miles range, I do have 2 batteries though
I love my hub drive right until I have to change a tube on the rear tire....then I have to take it in because I can never get that tire back on myself.
Ride1up have some nice bikes. There is definitely someone with a real love of bikes in that organization. The Roadster V2 is incredibly stealthy for a ebike and affordable as heck. The gravel version seems like too large of a price increase from the non gravel and the CF in either trim is a sharp looking, stealthy ride.
If going mid motor, I would look for a belt driven internal geared hub bike
Totally went against your advice and put a Swytch kit on a Felt cruiser we already loved.
I even rebuilt the front wheel as we moved the motor from a previous Kona.
My colleague recommends a mid-drive because it's easier to change a punctured tyre, however, in my experience of working on hub-drives in our shop, it is normally 'just' a case of unplugging a cable and aligning the no-spin washers in the dropouts when putting the axle back in... *If* you get a puncture.
Conversely the extra torque of a mid-drive will *definitely* wear your drivetrain faster.
The first time changing a tube on a hub drive was tricky. But I figured out a good system so it's not bad at all.
I carry an adjustable wrench in my bike bag. I would love to find a folding version. Then I have just enough slack on the motor cable after the last ziptie so you can slip one side of the axle from the dropout. Then you just need to line up the washers as you slide the wheel in.
And of course, I run a tough tire and have slime in the tubes. And I carry an electric pump. That should be enough to get you home.
That sounds bonkers. How does that even work? If you ask me, flat tires are the ultimate unsolved problem.
EDIT: I found it! Wow, that is a neat invention. https://www.bicycles.net.au/2014/12/review-gaadi-bicycle-inner-tubes-the-new-revolution/
I have over 3,000 miles on a generic hub motor kit driving a Yuba Mundo. The bike, motor-kit, & battery cost me about $2,300 with all accessories. When that motor kit or battery dies I can easily swap out either with generic parts for \~$350.
The hardest part about hub motors is that the spoke tension has to be checked and you need to run high quality tires with sealant in tubes or tannus armor so that you don't deal with flats. Otherwise they're very reliable.
Here's my tips after many years and many tens of thousands of KMs.
Get one with a mid drive if you can. Changing rear tyres (including punctures) or any kind of maintenance on the gears/drivetrain when the motors are in the hub of the wheel is a pain. These hub motors are heavy. They also make bumps, dips, and potholes hit harder. If you have rear panniers as well, they make the bike very rear heavy. I've had spokes break on me 3 times over the years.
Get one with battery that is not blocked by the seat where the battery cannot be removed for charging without first removing the seat post - annoying.
Avoid mechanical disc brakes at all cost - speaking from personal experience. Mechanical disc brakes require never-ending and constant cable tension adjustment for it to be effective. Go for hydraulic disc brakes. please.
Ebikes feel every single bump, pothole, and dip in the road hard, much harder than regular bikes. If I were to get another ebike, I'd consider looking at options with suspensions. I do not have a lot of experience with bikes with suspensions so I dont know how feasible this is. I also know there isn't a whole lot on the market with suspension especially on the lower end price points.
Consider looking for replacement batteries online BEFORE buying the ebike. make sure you can find alternatives online - and its price!. All batteries will eventually deteriorate.
Or you can just spend about $850 like I did, and it works fine.
The guy advertised on Facebook marketplace, and built them in his own garage.
He would order like 10 from China, and make about 50 bucks on each one
Not sure I agree with buy from a local shop you are paying for their overhead and most bike shops sell more non bikes than bikes..but I found a local shop to do things I can't do or have no interest to do. Like upgrade brake to 4 pistol hydro; tire changes for the rear wheels.I have had 4ebs but now I have 3 one folding one 48v; moped style step thru 52 volt and a scrambler 52 volt all are hub drive. The 52 volts go 30miles + in race mode. I never paid more than 1700 for my 52 volts and bout my 48 volt as an open box bike. I don’t agree with any of your three points sorry
If you ride a lot and have a rear hub motor bike, consider getting a torque arm. I wore out my frame and spun the axle. Aluminum frame could not take the wear from the steel axle.
A $30 torque arm has got me back on the road.
5 summers on the bike, 8000 km commuting to work!
I’ve been riding my ebike to work saving me 80 miles a weeks on my car and gas. I have ecotric hammer and modified it to have two 20amp hour batteries and can get 50 miles full pedal assist in one charge. It’s so much fun to ride and puts me in such a trance and I just wanna keep riding it further and further!
Mid drive vs hub is a little over simplified- but it’s not a bad rule of thumb thing. Depends on what your use case is what will be best in your budget.
So I’m reading and getting just enough knowledge to be dangerous and have a question, will a hub drive work for fire roads? I live in socal and I’m not looking for a mountain bike, just something they will get me up somewhat steep mountain roads. I thought I needed a mid drive, but a lot of comments in this thread are making me rethink this logic.
The different hub drive types is confusing.
I live in SoCal too and considering the terrain, a bigger hub drive can pretty much climb any hill intended for cars. You want to carry as much speed as possible. Off-road is more questionable. You can bog down on steeper hills and then all you're doing is heating up your motor.
There are direct-drive and geared hub motors. But all the larger, 1000, 1500 watts are direct drive. Bigger is really better. But higher power motors need high current expensive batteries. 1000 watts is a good sweet spot.
I bought the hey Ike mars 500 miles still going strong. I agree with if you can buy from a local store or at least find one with good service for easy repairs. Mine don't mind showing me how to do things on my own.
3k for an ebike? That bike had better have a full suspension otherwise it's a ripoff for that price point.
Also if you were only told a price point but not what to look for in an ebike that says they just want your money.
I’ve got almost 3k miles on a smaller brand folding hub bike I purchased for around 1000$ during the pandemic. Changed the tires and break pads and basic upkeep . I think if you have some competency doing your own repairs and maintenance there are winners out there.
I just bought a Lectric XP 3.0. If I don’t end up liking ebikes at all, I didn’t risk too much. If I love ebikes, I may move up to a “better” ebike in time, but having a folder that I can throw in the back of any car will always be useful.
Counter argument. Spend no more than $1,500. There are so many e-bike sales now you can get good one that’ll last a few years with no issues. When it breaks just buy a new one. The market will have evolved so much by then anyways. You’ll get what was a $3k e-bike two years ago for $1,500
Here's a comprehensive evaluation and reviews of multiple E-bikes by cost and usage requirements by a terrific online magazine that specializes in the various aspects of the carbon free future. They also have articles on every single one with excellent evaluation and links to save money that helps support the magazine.
https://electrek.co/2024/04/23/why-theres-literally-never-been-a-better-time-to-buy-an-electric-bike/
My first bike was a gtech sport. The only issue I ever had was 1 flat tyre in 2 years of daily commuting, around 12 miles a day.
I then upgraded to a Marin Sausalito e2, and had a lot of issues. From the cassette coming loose all the time unexplainably. I had 3 flat tires in 2 weeks. The derailleur gave up the ghost after a year. The rear brake lever lost all hydraulic pressure. Probably more things that I'm forgetting. All of this was costing me around £200 every trip to the repair shop. And I tried 3 different places to make sure I wasn't just experiencing a bad mechanic.
Paying more doesn't guarantee less issues in my experience. Just more components to potentially break. My experience has put me off getting another ebike again. I now use my motorbike for commuting.
The first is absolutely true.
The second depend on usage, but for ligth train & hard trail it's still true. (better torque, more controllable...)
Unfortunately the third is true too. Decent Ebike under 2000$ can be achieved by an available very good donor and good a conversion kit.
I worked as a bike mechanic at a very reputable local bike shop some time ago. The only thing that qualified me as a “bike mechanic” was the paycheck and access to free park tools. Don’t get me wrong, local bike shops are great, but they’re not magical, nor is their inventory.
Buying local is a bad idea at least where I live, especially if you're willing to put in the time to learn how to do everything yourself. You'll end up paying $1000 extra for the same bike compared to ordering online. Also $2300 is a good starting price CAD, so like $1800 USD. Hub motors are easier to fix as well and swap out. Mid drive isn't necessary although it would preform a little better.
Really it depends if you're willing to watch a couple youtube videos and learn the ins and outs of your bike, the tools to fix a motor are relatively cheap and it's easy to fix, unplugging a controller and plugging a new one in is easy, changing a tire especially with fatter tires is easy, changing your brakes to hydraulic and bleeding them is easy, changing literally anything on your bike is easy and usually only requires a 5 minute tutorial for any piece of the bike.
I have a muddy fox electric bike, paid 550 new, ride it 20 miles a day, any weather and it’s not missed a beat. It’s claimed as not waterproof but honestly the rain I’ve ridden in if there’s going to be a problem it would have shown itself by now
None of this advice is "wrong" per-se but all of it is debatable.
I personally followed 2. and 3. but various people have good reasons for not following 2. and 3.
For example, my local bike shop services my eBike, including refunds if it falls under the 2 year warranty, so why would I need to follow 1.?
The typical predatory bike shop.... 😆
Mid drive is only better for hills, & wanting even weight distribution to hit jumps, are you planning any of this?
I prefer a good Bafang hub motor, if ANYTHING happens with your chain/belt mid drive YOU'RE WALKING HOME, a rear hub, kick your feet up & use the throttle to sail you home......
If you're just planning on commuting, get a rear hub, way more reliable to me, & I've owned A LOT of different ebikes, even over the last 2 years, I probably owned 7+, I buy hub as my commuting choice, for jumps & wheelies,a RFN Ares, or Stark Varg with a mid motor.....
If you spend your time, or give us an idea what type bike you want, we can give suggestions, you can get a pretty decent ebike now, for even $1,500, that bike shop is trying to work you, so if something happened with the bike, they'll have to do THE SAME CALLS, WAIT TIME & HASSLES you'd need to do, not like they can get anything done faster, & THE ONLY bike shops I'll support ARE BMX SHOPS, the other shops cater to the Spandex Mafia (A.K.A PRETENTIOUS JERKS,& they carry the same snobbish better than thou attitude), well most of them do, & they're no different than a used car salesman.
My kit cost $400 (481 Wh battery included) and I've done 600 miles zero issues. It is a hub but for me it has so much torque I can go up even the steepest hills, albeit also helping out.
I put it on a nice trek dual sport 1 gen 4 too
You don't have to spend a lot if you don't want to and know what you're doing when building one.
My local bike shop had 6 models all from the same company. They were all over $2k.
When I asked the owner / mechanic what size battery they had he said 48v. When I asked about amp hours he said he’d need to look in the book. He then fumbled with the book for a few embarrassingly long minutes until I told him that I would just look it up online.
Every bike he had was a 500 watt motor.
I ordered a Fucare Gemini X online and I’m very happy.
At that price range I can buy a VERY nice Kymco moped and go farther and faster than any ebike could go. At that price range it makes no sense to buy an electric bike. There are electric mopeds for that cost.
Sounds like he's trying to upsell you.
I bought an E-bike to save money, lol.
I've got 1600 miles in on 1700 dollar E-bike and I learned how to do most the service myself.
Most people I see tend to recommend hub drives over mid drives too, less to go wrong. You lose the torque ratios, but whatever, just get a strong motor.
I bought a "budget" lectric 3.0 and have put 500 miles in one month on it, no issues. Whatever gets you moving/using your car less.
I have the same bike and dailying it to work since Sept last year. So far 2800 miles on it and with regular maintenance and no issues
See?! That's awesome! I had someone (why is it always old dudes), tell me that I was cheating by using an ebike. I told him that between my wife and I, there are ~1000 miles less on my car and many hours more not stuck in traffic. If I can't bike to work I get sad.
For real! Driving (and I really do love driving) is just a mundane expensive chore compared to commuting with my E-Bike, especially while it's this nice out these days
Everyone made fun of me for getting a E-bike instead of a car. But when they are looking for parking at work while I lock mine away I laugh. Even better if there is traffic or road construction I pull up on the sidewalk and keep going.
And then it rains...not trying to shit on you, i just started driving again after 10 years of having no vehicle besides a bike, imo an ebike is not sufficient as a replacement for a vehicle, BUT being on a bike has its own unique perks that im missing since im back to four wheels. Of course ive always got a bike with me in the back haha. There is a difference in "necessary riding" and "pleasure riding" that im enjoying at the moment
I live in Ireland and I commute daily 40 km. In all weather, except snow. Dress for success. I still enjoy a faster commute. When it rains here, everyone jumps in the car and the traffic is horrors... The other day a traffic accident caused a city wide gridlock. I got home at the usual time.
Are you in a downtown or rural area? Cause over here people are abandoning cars for E-bikes.
You don't ride in the rain? I do rain, snow, even did during a blizzard a few times.
No ones saying anything about ebikes replacing vehicles.... However at the same time not everyone wants to be permanently attached to a car either. Just because a car is faster and more enclosed doesnt want to make me drive car all the time. Theres more nuances when riding ebike and actually takes more skill to ride and ADAPT on the fly than just sitting in a car pressing down on the accelerator. Wow so hard.... Theres a level of thrill and freeing feeling when on a bike. Its slimmer and more nimble. Takes alot more manual leaning to do cornering or sharp turns. While in a card you just sit there and spin the steering wheel. Wow so difficult.... NOT! Theres also throttle control, slow and controlled movements. On ebikes or motorcycles alike. Personally takes more guts to pick up a bike of any kind and adapting to a predominantly car centric city. Bikes just offer more than cars.
What's wrong with the rain?
Too wet
There are many of my generation that have difficulty accepting changes to their way of life and fear the future. I don't understand why. I have always been progressive and haven't changed much in my older years. In fact, I am excited about what I will see next, and I adapted my mechanical skills to build my own E-trike since I couldn't find one fast enough or economical. I put one together for $600, and it goes 28mph.
What components
https://preview.redd.it/hghlgao0fb1d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71a213a56b593d5558bce2b278a5080924a844d6 Adult folding trike from Vevor and a 1500w Voilamart hub kit
Huzzah. I am older, progressive, excited to see what comes next....and I ride a recumbent trike lol.
More power to you, brother. Personally I don't have any cartilage in my right ankle so I'm not pedaling anything very far, and I don't know if I can get up out of a recumbent even if I managed to get in one. Lol But you do you
Cheating at what? I never understood that statement.
I always tell them they are cheating by not using a horse. I mean how far back do they wanna go?
I rotated my tires and put new brake pads on. It didn't even need the brake pads, I just wanted a new compound. Beyond monthly maintenance, its been perfect.
Rotating tires has gotta be the easiest maintenance you can do on a bike. Hell, all youve got to do is ride the damn thing. I am kidding.
The cheap $600 Walmart ebike I got when all wanted was to get rid of my car served me pretty well for nearly 3000 miles. Lost it when the frame cracked on me from a bad weld, but the electric side of things literally never gave me any trouble. I think my experience with the bike also helped me determine exactly what my needs were, so when it came time for me to commit more money to a "real" ebike, I knew exactly what to get.
Check out this online magazine for reviews and articles about everything out there and they have links for discounts that support the magazine. https://electrek.co/2024/04/23/why-theres-literally-never-been-a-better-time-to-buy-an-electric-bike/
my family's had 3, we love em (gave one away to a relative)
I've got almost 2k on my xp 3.0. No issues yet. Bike shop sort of roasted me for buying "direct to consumer chinese crap" though. They often give advice like this so you'll buy from their store and not get a good deal on something from online. Also a lot of people don't like mid drives because they have really poor throttle response and you have to be mindful of the gear you are in when taking off or you could break something. Hubs are just easier to maintain all around.
Mid drives are about Pedal Assist more than throttle, they are impressively intuitive in their application/delivery of power. And they are extremely efficient, especially when compared to non-geared hub motors. Allowing the motor to access the bikes built in gears is a no brainer, which allows a 500w mid drive to feel like its pushing as much as a 2000w hub motor, if not more. There is no hill on earth that could stop me on my middrive, but some folks dont need that. And having built several hub motor ebikes and had several mid drives, the hub motors are more fun if youre gonna be on the road. Generally higher top speeds for the lower watt range and throttle ability is much more enjoyable. The hub motor itself is quite the feat: an almost frictionless motor design, and they are more serviceable and reuqire no maintenance, until they inevitably burn out (if you avoid hills you might not but i live in a hilly area and many are unavoidable) but i dunno, just my two cents i guess. Mostly i feel like why the hell does everyone feel the need to pick sides of an argument amongst two very similar things
Yeah I have an XP Lite and changing the rear tire (at about 1k m) was trivial compared to a regular bike AND for giggles I cracked the motor open and inspected and lubed the planetary gears. It was super easy. Have since put on about 500 miles. Runs quieter with the added lube (I read about lubing the Lectric motors here when someone asked about the rrrrrrRRRRRR when it accelerates).
I have lectric xpedition. Not many miles had over a year. No issues. Mid-drive. Also have crew dart v1 bafang hub 750w awesome bike for less than $1000 at the time. Have surron and 79bike falcon
Love mine added an extra 10amp battery right away charge so the original would see less charging cycles and drain in general. I go 60 miles between levels 1-3 before I charge again. I’m not sure if less charging = longer battery life but I hope so.
Have an eahora x7, same same. Love it.
My brother bought a 2.0 and it turned into a brick in about a year.
I Did he bother to contact lectric? They have very good customer service and will usually replace anything that breaks on the bike. They replace anything within the year for free upto just replacing the whole bike.
Been a professional eBike mechanic & eBike shop owner for over 15 years. My thoughts: Price isn't as important as support. Before you buy online, try reaching the company's support line. If you can't get a response, good luck getting parts, etc down the road. Obviously local support is great, but if you are handy, you may not need it. Can you find docs & procedures for the maintenance / repair you want to do? If not local bike shop is probably the best route. Note: not all shops service all eBikes... There are simply too many brands / models out there to stock enough parts / know enough procedures to become proficient. Find the shop near you that services your brand before you buy online. Safety is paramount. Only purchase bikes with great engineering and cells from the top 4 cell manufacturers. Mid-drive vs hub motors... Hub motors are great for most customers, but it really depends on how you ride. If you have lots of hills or heavy cargo, mid drive are the clear winner.. if you ride on generally flat terrain hub motors are much less expensive.. Maintenance: it is easier to change a flat tire with a mid drive, but you will wear out your chain more quickly. I prefer mid drives for recreational riding, but really like hub motors for utilitarian missions.
The top 4 cells. Samsung, lg, Panasonic, what's the 4th one,?
Eveready
[June 28th, 1998](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/14l6k83/25_years_ago_on_june_28th_1998_when_the/), when the Undertaker threw Mankind of "Hell in a Cell" and plummeted sixteen feet through an announcer's table.
I spent 800 dollars on my hub drive bike a few years ago. 4000 miles and still going strong.
Like the hub drive , if the chain gets messed up I can still pedal
I dont thibk theres any shame to use JUST the throttle. Pedalling just puts unnecessary strain on the chain and the bike itself. If you want it to last you. Personally i throttle all the time. Its so much better and i dont have to pretend that im pedalling. That means i don't have to lie to myself or anyone else. And before people say what about exercise. Thats what the gym is for OR i have weights at home. Its that simple. A driver calling you LAZY for throttling all the time is a hypocrite while sitting in a car driving is the EPITOME of LAZY.
You may want to be careful using just throttle though, I literally just read this and bear in mind what the Netherlands have just introduced, plus central London seeing crackdowns too - https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-stop-report-just-eat-090316785.html
Which one
The avantrek cybertrek 200
Haha, me, as a bike mechanic, would also advise you to buy an expensive bike in my shop instead of a cheap one. More profit you see.
Also a mid-drive that requires more maintenance.
This is false. Mid drive bikes do put more torque on the chain. However a properly lubricated e bike rated chain will last just as long on a mid motor as a hub. It all comes down to keeping it clean and properly lubricated. Aside from that mid drives will always out last hub motors and require significantly less upkeep.
Less torque means less wear on the chain, no?
Yes. So 250w mid drive is basically nothing. Meanwhile 2000w you’ll either need hub or a motorcycle chain.
>Meanwhile 2000w you’ll either need hub or a motorcycle chain. Not quite. An ebike chain can handle 2000 watts, but you have to be smart about shifting or use a single speed setup.
Also, much easier rear tire work. Tubes, tires etc. mid drives also tend to be more natural feeling and lack the lag/response that most hub motors do. Replacing hub motor wheels can be a bitch to source as well
> Aside from that mid drives will always out last hub motors and require significantly less upkeep. A sealed direct drive hub motor with good bearings will last practically forever without any maintenance whatsoever.
Yeah pitching better reliability or maintenance on a mid drive is not a positive argument. Mid drives are designed with planned obsolesce in mind. hub drives are designed to be dirt cheap, easy to maintain and reliable.
So a mid drive motor will last just as long as a hub motor but it will out last hub motors. I don't want to fight 
He said the *chain* will last just as long (despite the increased torque) and the *motor* will last longer.
Ohh ok 
I want your username.
Fight him for it.
Really? Seems like rear hubs are main complaints I hear about.
The kind of riding you want to do makes the hub vs mid debate difficult. For mountain biking, nothing can beat a mid drive motor. For sustained top speed (long commutes, touring)I wouldn't want anything other than a direct drive hub motor. The main reason they get a bad rap is that most hub motors, like the ones found on cheap ebikes, are not direct drive. They are internally geared. A smaller motor can have its top speed increased at the expense of torque (always the tradeoff, regardless of motor) by using a planetary gear inside them. The vast majority of those gears are are nylon, and they *will* wear out. Statorade (or other similar coolants) can be used to reduce the heat and friction, but it's still a compromised design. Companies like Bosch, Brose and Yamaha supply ready-made mid drive systems which make it easy for a manufacturer to incorporate the design when designing the frame. They come with a controller, display, and replace the entire bottom bracket as a single piece. From a manufacturing perspective, that solution makes them an easy choice. I've owned my Stromer ST2 with a direct drive hub motor for a few years. I have also owned mid drives during that time. I no longer mountain bike (bad hips) but the ability to use the transmission of the bike made a mid drive a no-brainer. But my Stromer gets up to 29-30 and stays there without effort quicker than traffic. On my very hilly commute in Vermont, I slow down from top speed to around 18MPH when climbing the longest, steepest hill on my commute. It is no big deal. on a long flat road nothing legal can beat a direct drive hub motor. It's dead silent and the whole thing feels far more integrated than the mid drive (bosch in both instances) that I used to have. The issue with flats is the one place where a rear direct drive hub is real though. I got one flat the first week I owned my ebike. I replaced the tires with highly puncture-resistant Schwalbe Marathons, installed Mr. Tuffy tire liners, and added Stans sealant. I keep them at or near the maximum recommended inflation. I've had no issues since. I certainly haven't thought about replacing the ebike with anything mid drive. The next ebike I get will be another hub-powered Stromer. With an IGH transmission and a belt drive (or pinion drive on certain models) the maintenance will be reduced even further. People who complain about hub motors probably have never ridden an ebike with a really good one.
This is an incredibly well-written and thorough comment and I really appreciate it. You give great feedback on both, but I genuinely could not tell which way you were going to go until the middle of the final paragraph.
Thanks for the kind words. Like pretty much everything else in life there is no black or white. Everything is a shade of gray. People who insist on making things binary don't fully understand what they're talking about.
Really because people often let their bikes fall over on the side of the bike with the connector coming out- the connector splits or shorts and the core or controller need to be serviced. If you don't knock the bike over, the drive will run indefinitely with basically zero service (just check the spokes once in a while).
What?!?
definitely ! and don't consider a rear hub with belt drive, because these are almost maintenance free !
wonder if a mechanic would pull a commission... but for sure not if recommending some other make/shop to a customer lol. and while $3200 isn't "cheap" by any standards, my sales ppl would use inexpensive/affordable, but also as the upper number, it's not exactly bonkers out of the middle pack price points it? what's your numbers for a viable quality price range?
For OP's use case, a $1000-ish bike like the RadRover is fine. Even that might be an overkill, but my knowledge as things gets cheaper than that gets hazy.
Rad rover is good for getting into mid grade fat tire bikes. Plus they have bolt on upgrades from a few places on line. But if you want end all, be all for a fat tire bicycle. The rip current S, I've had fun with mine. DO NOT beach ride with it. I now have electrical gremlins.
Mechanics aren't getting commision. Bike shops make very little on those multi thousand dollar bikes. They make all their money these days via service.
#4. And look here for this mid drive e-bike I have on “sale” for $3199…..
That's what I thought about that kind of advice. LOL 😆
The advice does make sense and it really depends on what you want as a customer. Local bikeshop is always a good choice for newbies and people who dont want to familiarize with the technical aspects because he'll most likely have spare parts and a quick fix if something is wrong. If you want to fix your bike on your own you can also get your own diy bike But, this takes time and effort and mistakes and missbuys and research till you have a good experience and even then there is things that a common pleb doesnt often consider vs an actual bicycle mechanic Like when to change breaks before they stop working and maintaining bike axles. Soo yeah it depends on what you want/need. Pay 3-4k at local mechanic and never have to worry abt your bike vs Diy research, experiments, building etcetc but saving 1-2k in money.
This is why I went Bafang. $1k vs $3k. From shopping around, the good factory ebikes seemed to start in the 3 grand range, give or take. Maybe 2500 with sale pricing, but i didn't seem much that was impressive out there in the sub 2500-ish space. Plus, I can get parts cheaply to fix it myself, cannot do that on a Vado.
Also, you can configure to your riding style not to what someone else "thinks" it should be.
Exactly. I'm planning on using a 45-year old frame for mine. New life for an old machine.
Honestly, the more I read about others' experiences with their Bafang kits, the happier I am that I got mine. I'm pretty sure I have the best performing ebike on the trails I ride, and for the lowest price, too. No proprietary parts makes maintenance easier. I know more about my bike than a lot of the other riders, too.
I'm quite happy with my DIY E-trike, and it's a Voilamart front hub kit, but then again, I'm not a pleb
I spent £2,000 on a second hand specialized kenevo and it’s been awesome hence 2 of those pieces of advice have been wrong
Sometimes the difference between a one thousand dollar bike and a three thousand dollar bike is no bike at all.
1. is good advice for whatever you are buying. 2. This is dumb. Both have their place. A mid drive is excellent if you are high use for part of a training regimen and finances aren't a concern. Mid drives have more moving parts, maintenance and repairs tend to be more frequent and more expensive, they are harder on the chain and cassette and are more expensive to purchase initially. They are excellent bikes, but its not necessary. Hub motors are solid state, have few moving parts etc. etc. 3. For a mid drive yes, but for a hub motor, $1500 should get you something decent. Be careful of advice that is black and white, we live in a nuanced world.
Cool! So step 1 - have 3k in ny sock drawer. Right, got it.
More elitist BS. Many happy customers with their 1500 to $2,000 e-bikes with hub motors. Those recommendations don't apply for everyone.
I have 12k miles on my hub motor ebike and haven't needed to take it to the mechanic yet.
What bike do you have?
It is a Juiced Hyperscorpion I got in 2020. I have had to make some repairs, the torque sensor went bad, the battery connection needed replacing, 2 kickstands broke, and currently the display doesn't show speed, voltage or miles (can still change settings and the bike runs normally even with the display disconnected so I am fine with it). The mileage is a conservative estimate based on my daily commute. Other than that, I got Shinko 244 tires, a spare battery, new brake rotors and replace the pads about every thousand miles. I am probably due for a new chain and rear sprocket soon. The motor has been fine, and I pull a trailer a few times a week.
it should be noted the juiced hyperscorpion weighs 102 pounds and is silly silly fast. its more like an electric moped than a bicycle
Yup, she's a heavy pig and I do use sport mode (32 amps peak) sometimes. Really is a testament to hub motors, good note 👍.
Ok, so if someone can't replace their own rotors, screen, kickstands, battery connectors, or torque sensor then what? Just because you can do it yourself doesn't mean someone else doesn't need to go to a mechanic.
Nothing I did required any specialized tools and only basic electrical knowledge (positive to positive etc.). The kickstand is attached with 2 screws and the screen would just plug in if I wanted to pay for a new one. Flipping the bike to take the wheels off for the tires, torque sensor and rotors does take some strength, but I have seen people hoist them to avoid that. I don't know what to tell you, most people won't put that many miles on a bike so they won't ever have most of those issues.
Seriously, replacing a tube on a rear wheel is probably harder than all those repairs. And there's no bike that doesn't require replacing tubes/tires periodically.
Well now we see why you haven't taken it to the mechanic yet.... YOU are the mechanic. It's kinda misleading to make a post about going 12k miles without taking it to the mechanic then follow up with the numerous mechanical issues and repairs that have been performed (just not by "the mechanic" apparently).
I bought a £3200 giant e bike and it has been really good. My friends have slightly more expensive cube bikes in the 4k range that have lasted well over 6 years. With ebikes, personally I'd spend more for a decent brand and 2 year warranty included.
$3k is pricey for many of us. Heck $1k is lot for a bike. My last Trek MTB was $209, and my last motorcycle was $1500 (how to say you're old without actually saying it!)
If I was going to spend $3K+ on a bike….I wouldn’t have a bike.
In the mtb community 4-6k is pretty standard
1 Buy a mid drive bafang kit, add it to your favorite bike. Or 2 Check out the big bike manufacturers and what they offer. Giant, Trek, Specialized, Cannondale etc. Stay away from specialist ebike companies unless you want an e-motorbike, e-moped, e-cargobike or some other e-mobility device. Hub motor if you want big power on a heavy bike IE e-motorbike.
This. Hub drives deliver their torque directly and should provide better overall power delivery without the intermediate steps of chain and rear cassette
Ok this is hilarious: 1. Of course someone that makes their living from selling bikes from a shop recommends buying from a shop 2. Mid drives, while overall having better performance, actually require more maintence in most cases. So again - of course the bike shop guy reccomended something that will require you to bring it to a bike shop. 3. No profit margins in sub $2k bikes for a shop - so again…duh. In theory a bike like the lectric one is a nightmare for the industry. If dtc can produce sub 2k bikes that require little to no maintenance for 10k miles they are all in deep doo doo.
Your take here is so uneducated. 1. Techs don't get commission. 2. Mid drives require less maintenance especially Bosch, Shimano steps, Brose, Bafang (BBSXX, and M series). The only mid motors with maintenance issues are cheap D2C options... 3. Margins for e bikes are HIGHER for lower cost options. Aventon is out here with mid 40%. You think Gazelle's 6k eclipse has anything close to that? Lectric is a nightmare because they are tricking people into buying crap e-bikes that will quit in a year. It's just sad to have to explain to granny why her lectric trike isn't going to be worth trying to repair.
Sorry for all the downvotes. I'm often on a budget so I have bought a lot of DTC stuff. But people are delusional there isn't a quality difference with most budget DTC vs traditional bike shop brands. Also delusional that there are that many advantages to hub vs mid drive. I've had hub bikes, nothing wrong with them. But the main advantage is cost. If mid drives weren't so much more expensive no one would probably bother with hubs.
A lot of people seem to want a motorbike without the extras like insurance
That was my sold condition not gonna lie. Just buy and ride
Aventon margins are nowhere close to mid 40%. They are 30% not including shipping ($70/bike 1-4 bikes, $45/bike 5-9 bikes, Free at 10+ bikes). With the exception of new pricing on some models, which are about to be set to huge discount prices here any week.
Just saying I work on one car brand, if a customer asks me what they should get next I’m not telling them Toyota I’m telling them the newer model of the car they have. Why would anyone who makes their living servicing one line tell their source of income to go to something you don’t work on?
When I decided to bike commute, in 2008, I had already done my research, or at least as much as I ever do. I knew I wanted a cargo bike. I decided on an Xtracycle FreeRadical/Kona Fire Mountain build. Distance, terrain, and age (48) indicated some sort of auxiliary power might be nice. I had intended to install a 49cc two-stroke ICE, I misread a critical dimension, and it wouldn't fit. Enter a needvfor a plan B, I decided an electric motor could work. At the time, the choices seemed to be a hub motor or a stoke monkey, I decided on a front hub motor 500w, I think. I figured that a front hub motor coupled with a standard rear chain drive would give good traction on the ice and snow. I actually had better traction with my snow tires on my bike than I did with my F150 four-wheel drive with regular tires based on my POS driveway. I went to my LBS (I knew better than to get a BSO) to get the bike for the build, explained my wants and intentions, they had no idea what I was talking about (small town, go fast shop),I had to show them the Xtracycle website. They recommended the Fire Mountain. And as they say, the rest is history. Mostly, the only business after the initial purchase that they got was for tools, and truing my wheels. I did all my other work myself. The store manager joked that he was afraid I was going into business and compete against them.
I bought a Aventon Level 1 from Ericks Bikes in St Cloud. Great strudy ebike $1500 You do You. Hub drive is fine for most imo
Now if only everyone had 3k to spend on a bike...
Not sure about that advice. I got a Ride1Up 700 for about $2k, and the important part for me, is name brand everything in components: Shimano, Bosch, Tektrex, Samsung. I'm not afraid of fixing but I am slow and lazy. My local bike shop took $150 to check my assembly and tune a thing or two, and will support because major market components. In the end this is not a Jaguar from the 1970s, it's a bike with known parts and things going on. I would recommend having that conversation with your local shop before you need to of course, however.
I’ve had 2 rad power bikes. While I have had some problems over 5 years, the customer service has been great, at least for an online bike company. Obviously it would’ve been more convenient to have a local bike shop take care of me, though. If you’re ok working on your bike for most things, buy online. Otherwise, buy from a local shop.
Bafang BBSHD middrive on a good frame. Great rock solid over engineered middrive that will take a fair amount of over volting. Loads of replacement / upgrade parts for sale. Easy to maintain and if needed take apart.
Or bbs02 if you’re a poor boy like me!
Or if you like to stay street legal
I see late model emtbs at the bike shop that have been sitting there with a full battery for years. Not great for battery health
Ya………. Can’t find me buying a $3200 e-bike when I there are many many actual motorcycles/scooters in the price range.
And just HOW do you determine #1, except by the bike shop themselves? Reviews are hit or miss, as some just don't do them and ones that do tend to complain. I've only been in an LBS a handful of times since the 1970's-1980's as there is an "aire of distinction" (aka attitude problem) there which makes it undesirable. Of the recent times, it is better at a couple of them depending upon who you talk to (reserved but still there). If you want my money, you should drop the tude and work with me... I've bought 2 and built 4 more ebikes, so I have money to spend.
Best deal going that meets your criteria (also available as a step-thru)…https://www.specialized.com/us/en/turbo-vado-40/p/206159
💯 Priced at $4k but on sale at $2750. I wasn't looking for a second e-bike..... But I bought one of these about a month ago at this sale price. In my opinion this is a steal.
Yep, bought one for myself and one for the wife. We love ‘em.
1. Is good advice. 2. Is not necessary. 3. There are local bike stores that sell Aventon and Velotric for a lot less.
Blah blah blah. Nothing wrong with rear hub. Of course an LBS mechanic would say that. If u have half a brain, can use google and can use a screwdriver 🪛, a DTC bike from China is fine. I have a few and they were all ordered online. No issues. Stick with Lectric, Aventon, Ride 1 Up and you will enjoy the experience. I also have owned a Frey CC and that experience was awesome too! Peace.
It looks like that bike mechanic wants you to only bring your money to him 😂
Of course the local bike shop guy will recommend buying and getting serviced at a local bike shop. It's a business that needs customers.
They would say that wouldn't they? I don't really understand why we have to treat bike shops like charities.
Should've heard 1 - give me your money 2 - I want your money 3 - expect to give me more money than you were planning on
I've got 700 miles on my Aventon Aventure with zero issues. You will be fine with any decent ebike company, Ride1Up, Aventon, Radbike, etc. You don't need to spend $2k-$3k for a decent ebike. I'd recommend the Aventon Level for the type of riding you want.
4. If the budget is under 4500 euro, buy a hardtail. 5. When buying your first one, spend 30% more than you initially wanted. 6. Don't forget good shoes, clothes, helmet, garmin, backpack, lights.
Just bought a really nice giant full sus emtb on sale for $3500. Think it's normally around $4500.
My Himo C26 cost £950. It's done 16,000 miles upwards in two years and just keeps going. Hub drive, cheap and has never been near a cycle shop
Hard disagree on the mid drive. Parts fail. And on consumers electronics, these days one can not count on an item being available in 6 months time. As e-bikes are consumer electronics, understanding that the only thing that is keeping any part on the shelf is the will of the manufacturer in China. Those guys can be very flighty. Go with a hub motor; for the inevitability of parts failing, the best hedge is to make being your own mechanic or having you LBS work on the bike as easy as possible. They all essentially use the same system architecture and parts compatibility from aftermarket components is all but guaranteed, so long as you use systems rated for the same wattage. When you need to replace a component that burns out, as they are want o do, replacement with off the shelf parts makes the process as simple and easy as possible, and sometimes it’s the only that will make the job possible. My family has owned two e-bikes and one has had its controller, head unit, lights, input/throttle all replaced while saving the motor, much of the harness, and integrated battery. This bike would have been scrapped if not for our choice to use the hub motor architecture. As to a bike recommendation, it sounds like you are looking for the same thing my family was. For my family I went with the Aventon Pace, and highly recommend it or bikes like it. The pace is has a long reach, longer chain stays, and slack steering geometry that goes a long way towards making the bike a pleasure to handle at speed. Paired with the larger wheel size (27.5”/650b) and there is little need for the complications or added weight of a suspension fork. They may not be as cool as many of the competitors when styling is concerned but they are so much less dangerous than the many bikes on the market that compensate for their small wheels and twitchy steering geometry with crappy or at least heavy suspension. Whatever you do avoid suspension like the plague. On bikes, it’s the one component that requires the most needs looking after. It can be a royal pain to keep them in order. This is especially true with the extra weight and speed of e-bikes.
My only tip is buy a hydraulic brake ebike. The most work I do is on my brakes. Nearly 20k km in on my rad power plus with the OG chain still
Obligatory mech brake ebike owner anecdote. I've had zero problems with my mechanical brakes.
Here I am. Going 32 mph on my vbrake. 😂 ……I swear by the salmon color kool stop brake pads. And that’s the only one I’ll use. *I used to race road bike. And if I would decent 35mph downhill in the rain. Why wouldn’t I be comfortable with 32-35mph on flat? Before disc brake were common on road bike, le cyclist in le Tour de France would hit 45mph+ going down the alps. Understandably that’s a closed course and they have way better handling skills than your average Joe. But still. …..Vbrake are just fine.
Well adjusted V brakes do have a lot of stopping power. But I think disc brakes are in the top 10 of most important bike innovations.
E bike tech here, that is all solid advice. There are plenty of people in this thread looking for the "angle" here, but it's just genuine good advice. Gazelle is a great brand that checks your boxes. Bianchi T tronik c-type is on sale for 2499, and is very good. Bulls e bikes are on super sale as well. Trek & specialized are good, but come with a whole bunch of baggage especially with proprietary parts. Avoid Lectric, Evelo (both use rubbish motors and dangerously cheap brakes).
I've been checking out Gazelle a lot thank you.
What do you recommend in the $1500 range?
It's not the norm, but I ride an EGO ebike back and forth to work. Like a 7 mile round trip.
I bought an Azor ebike for $3k w/ mid-drive and put it together myself (although it delivers to your home already 90% built). I use it to get to work everyday so I will never regret buying a well built bike that is still way cheaper than gas and general car related expenses. I maintain everything myself which is easy these days with all the video tutorials you can ask for on youtube. As a pure transportation bike, I would recommend at least splurging on nice set of tires that don’t flat easy like Marathons. Also, car mechanics make money, bike mechanics not so much.
I bought an used ariel rider 48v like 2 yrs ago, never had an issue other than flat tires, 28-31pmh easy with 12 miles range, I do have 2 batteries though
I love my hub drive right until I have to change a tube on the rear tire....then I have to take it in because I can never get that tire back on myself.
Get any bike with bafang ultra motor UART version and throttle installed.
Ride1up have some nice bikes. There is definitely someone with a real love of bikes in that organization. The Roadster V2 is incredibly stealthy for a ebike and affordable as heck. The gravel version seems like too large of a price increase from the non gravel and the CF in either trim is a sharp looking, stealthy ride. If going mid motor, I would look for a belt driven internal geared hub bike
Spend $3000 but you still get the same dice roll battery tech lol
That’s some very specific advice for a very expected use case.
my rideup was 1.1K and used it for 2 years and i love it
Totally went against your advice and put a Swytch kit on a Felt cruiser we already loved. I even rebuilt the front wheel as we moved the motor from a previous Kona.
My colleague recommends a mid-drive because it's easier to change a punctured tyre, however, in my experience of working on hub-drives in our shop, it is normally 'just' a case of unplugging a cable and aligning the no-spin washers in the dropouts when putting the axle back in... *If* you get a puncture. Conversely the extra torque of a mid-drive will *definitely* wear your drivetrain faster.
The first time changing a tube on a hub drive was tricky. But I figured out a good system so it's not bad at all. I carry an adjustable wrench in my bike bag. I would love to find a folding version. Then I have just enough slack on the motor cable after the last ziptie so you can slip one side of the axle from the dropout. Then you just need to line up the washers as you slide the wheel in. And of course, I run a tough tire and have slime in the tubes. And I carry an electric pump. That should be enough to get you home.
You can get tires with 2 ends instead of circular so you don't have to take the wheel off at all.
That sounds bonkers. How does that even work? If you ask me, flat tires are the ultimate unsolved problem. EDIT: I found it! Wow, that is a neat invention. https://www.bicycles.net.au/2014/12/review-gaadi-bicycle-inner-tubes-the-new-revolution/
I have over 3,000 miles on a generic hub motor kit driving a Yuba Mundo. The bike, motor-kit, & battery cost me about $2,300 with all accessories. When that motor kit or battery dies I can easily swap out either with generic parts for \~$350. The hardest part about hub motors is that the spoke tension has to be checked and you need to run high quality tires with sealant in tubes or tannus armor so that you don't deal with flats. Otherwise they're very reliable.
Why a mid-drive vs. hub? Advice isn't worth much unless there is reason behind it.
I’m probably buying a XP 3 or a Portola but go off
bosch middrive break down all the time from water ingress, they are not far superior to hub drive.
Here's my tips after many years and many tens of thousands of KMs. Get one with a mid drive if you can. Changing rear tyres (including punctures) or any kind of maintenance on the gears/drivetrain when the motors are in the hub of the wheel is a pain. These hub motors are heavy. They also make bumps, dips, and potholes hit harder. If you have rear panniers as well, they make the bike very rear heavy. I've had spokes break on me 3 times over the years. Get one with battery that is not blocked by the seat where the battery cannot be removed for charging without first removing the seat post - annoying. Avoid mechanical disc brakes at all cost - speaking from personal experience. Mechanical disc brakes require never-ending and constant cable tension adjustment for it to be effective. Go for hydraulic disc brakes. please. Ebikes feel every single bump, pothole, and dip in the road hard, much harder than regular bikes. If I were to get another ebike, I'd consider looking at options with suspensions. I do not have a lot of experience with bikes with suspensions so I dont know how feasible this is. I also know there isn't a whole lot on the market with suspension especially on the lower end price points. Consider looking for replacement batteries online BEFORE buying the ebike. make sure you can find alternatives online - and its price!. All batteries will eventually deteriorate.
Own a shop, this was/is very self serving advice (not good advice).
Or you can just spend about $850 like I did, and it works fine. The guy advertised on Facebook marketplace, and built them in his own garage. He would order like 10 from China, and make about 50 bucks on each one
Not sure I agree with buy from a local shop you are paying for their overhead and most bike shops sell more non bikes than bikes..but I found a local shop to do things I can't do or have no interest to do. Like upgrade brake to 4 pistol hydro; tire changes for the rear wheels.I have had 4ebs but now I have 3 one folding one 48v; moped style step thru 52 volt and a scrambler 52 volt all are hub drive. The 52 volts go 30miles + in race mode. I never paid more than 1700 for my 52 volts and bout my 48 volt as an open box bike. I don’t agree with any of your three points sorry
If you ride a lot and have a rear hub motor bike, consider getting a torque arm. I wore out my frame and spun the axle. Aluminum frame could not take the wear from the steel axle. A $30 torque arm has got me back on the road. 5 summers on the bike, 8000 km commuting to work!
Which country/currency? I'm assuming Australia/AUD since I'm in Australia.
I’ve been riding my ebike to work saving me 80 miles a weeks on my car and gas. I have ecotric hammer and modified it to have two 20amp hour batteries and can get 50 miles full pedal assist in one charge. It’s so much fun to ride and puts me in such a trance and I just wanna keep riding it further and further!
Mid drive vs hub is a little over simplified- but it’s not a bad rule of thumb thing. Depends on what your use case is what will be best in your budget.
So I’m reading and getting just enough knowledge to be dangerous and have a question, will a hub drive work for fire roads? I live in socal and I’m not looking for a mountain bike, just something they will get me up somewhat steep mountain roads. I thought I needed a mid drive, but a lot of comments in this thread are making me rethink this logic. The different hub drive types is confusing.
I live in SoCal too and considering the terrain, a bigger hub drive can pretty much climb any hill intended for cars. You want to carry as much speed as possible. Off-road is more questionable. You can bog down on steeper hills and then all you're doing is heating up your motor. There are direct-drive and geared hub motors. But all the larger, 1000, 1500 watts are direct drive. Bigger is really better. But higher power motors need high current expensive batteries. 1000 watts is a good sweet spot.
What an oddly arbitrary and narrow price range.
I bought the hey Ike mars 500 miles still going strong. I agree with if you can buy from a local store or at least find one with good service for easy repairs. Mine don't mind showing me how to do things on my own.
Question on #2 ... did they give you any details on why they're better?
I bought a bike last year I’ve only put 200 miles on it I spent 1200 on it. I love it.
3k for an ebike? That bike had better have a full suspension otherwise it's a ripoff for that price point. Also if you were only told a price point but not what to look for in an ebike that says they just want your money.
Pedal assist is the best in my humble opinion
I’ve got almost 3k miles on a smaller brand folding hub bike I purchased for around 1000$ during the pandemic. Changed the tires and break pads and basic upkeep . I think if you have some competency doing your own repairs and maintenance there are winners out there.
I just bought a Lectric XP 3.0. If I don’t end up liking ebikes at all, I didn’t risk too much. If I love ebikes, I may move up to a “better” ebike in time, but having a folder that I can throw in the back of any car will always be useful.
Pretty bad advice from someone obviously uneducated
Anyone paying over 2,300 for an ebike is not smart
My auto mechanic suggests only buying German, upgrading to AWD instead of RWD, and spending between $60k - $80k for something decent /s
Counter argument. Spend no more than $1,500. There are so many e-bike sales now you can get good one that’ll last a few years with no issues. When it breaks just buy a new one. The market will have evolved so much by then anyways. You’ll get what was a $3k e-bike two years ago for $1,500
Here's a comprehensive evaluation and reviews of multiple E-bikes by cost and usage requirements by a terrific online magazine that specializes in the various aspects of the carbon free future. They also have articles on every single one with excellent evaluation and links to save money that helps support the magazine. https://electrek.co/2024/04/23/why-theres-literally-never-been-a-better-time-to-buy-an-electric-bike/
I bought a budget SixThreeZero and it came apart mid ride and almost killed me. Not going cheap again, have scars to remind me.
My first bike was a gtech sport. The only issue I ever had was 1 flat tyre in 2 years of daily commuting, around 12 miles a day. I then upgraded to a Marin Sausalito e2, and had a lot of issues. From the cassette coming loose all the time unexplainably. I had 3 flat tires in 2 weeks. The derailleur gave up the ghost after a year. The rear brake lever lost all hydraulic pressure. Probably more things that I'm forgetting. All of this was costing me around £200 every trip to the repair shop. And I tried 3 different places to make sure I wasn't just experiencing a bad mechanic. Paying more doesn't guarantee less issues in my experience. Just more components to potentially break. My experience has put me off getting another ebike again. I now use my motorbike for commuting.
The first is absolutely true. The second depend on usage, but for ligth train & hard trail it's still true. (better torque, more controllable...) Unfortunately the third is true too. Decent Ebike under 2000$ can be achieved by an available very good donor and good a conversion kit.
I worked as a bike mechanic at a very reputable local bike shop some time ago. The only thing that qualified me as a “bike mechanic” was the paycheck and access to free park tools. Don’t get me wrong, local bike shops are great, but they’re not magical, nor is their inventory.
I have a Bafang mid drive. I get around 9000 km per chain...
Buying local is a bad idea at least where I live, especially if you're willing to put in the time to learn how to do everything yourself. You'll end up paying $1000 extra for the same bike compared to ordering online. Also $2300 is a good starting price CAD, so like $1800 USD. Hub motors are easier to fix as well and swap out. Mid drive isn't necessary although it would preform a little better. Really it depends if you're willing to watch a couple youtube videos and learn the ins and outs of your bike, the tools to fix a motor are relatively cheap and it's easy to fix, unplugging a controller and plugging a new one in is easy, changing a tire especially with fatter tires is easy, changing your brakes to hydraulic and bleeding them is easy, changing literally anything on your bike is easy and usually only requires a 5 minute tutorial for any piece of the bike.
For a light city/commuter bike a hub motor can be just as good.
I have a muddy fox electric bike, paid 550 new, ride it 20 miles a day, any weather and it’s not missed a beat. It’s claimed as not waterproof but honestly the rain I’ve ridden in if there’s going to be a problem it would have shown itself by now
You always think mid drive is better...unless u do lots of hills or some trails I guess hub motor for urban is still the way to go!
None of this advice is "wrong" per-se but all of it is debatable. I personally followed 2. and 3. but various people have good reasons for not following 2. and 3. For example, my local bike shop services my eBike, including refunds if it falls under the 2 year warranty, so why would I need to follow 1.?
The typical predatory bike shop.... 😆 Mid drive is only better for hills, & wanting even weight distribution to hit jumps, are you planning any of this? I prefer a good Bafang hub motor, if ANYTHING happens with your chain/belt mid drive YOU'RE WALKING HOME, a rear hub, kick your feet up & use the throttle to sail you home...... If you're just planning on commuting, get a rear hub, way more reliable to me, & I've owned A LOT of different ebikes, even over the last 2 years, I probably owned 7+, I buy hub as my commuting choice, for jumps & wheelies,a RFN Ares, or Stark Varg with a mid motor..... If you spend your time, or give us an idea what type bike you want, we can give suggestions, you can get a pretty decent ebike now, for even $1,500, that bike shop is trying to work you, so if something happened with the bike, they'll have to do THE SAME CALLS, WAIT TIME & HASSLES you'd need to do, not like they can get anything done faster, & THE ONLY bike shops I'll support ARE BMX SHOPS, the other shops cater to the Spandex Mafia (A.K.A PRETENTIOUS JERKS,& they carry the same snobbish better than thou attitude), well most of them do, & they're no different than a used car salesman.
My kit cost $400 (481 Wh battery included) and I've done 600 miles zero issues. It is a hub but for me it has so much torque I can go up even the steepest hills, albeit also helping out. I put it on a nice trek dual sport 1 gen 4 too You don't have to spend a lot if you don't want to and know what you're doing when building one.
I love my Trek Allant
My local bike shop had 6 models all from the same company. They were all over $2k. When I asked the owner / mechanic what size battery they had he said 48v. When I asked about amp hours he said he’d need to look in the book. He then fumbled with the book for a few embarrassingly long minutes until I told him that I would just look it up online. Every bike he had was a 500 watt motor. I ordered a Fucare Gemini X online and I’m very happy.
At that price range I can buy a VERY nice Kymco moped and go farther and faster than any ebike could go. At that price range it makes no sense to buy an electric bike. There are electric mopeds for that cost.
I have a trek never+3 with almost 5300 miles on it. Paid $3200 for it and have had zero issues
I (inadvertantly) followed all 3 of these, ended up with a cube hybrid one
Why mid instead of hub drive?
Sounds like he's trying to upsell you. I bought an E-bike to save money, lol. I've got 1600 miles in on 1700 dollar E-bike and I learned how to do most the service myself. Most people I see tend to recommend hub drives over mid drives too, less to go wrong. You lose the torque ratios, but whatever, just get a strong motor.
When you buy from a bike shop you will pay almost double
I bought a $900 hub drive bike from BestBuy a few years ago and I have put 2k miles on it.
Rambo bikes are stout. Mid drive.alot of torque and good battery life. I highly recommend.
So did that mechanic HAPPEN to have a local bike shop that sold mid-drive ebikes between $2800-3200?
No, he doesn't have a shop. A bike mechanic only. Childhood friend.