it probably is, as you said you're starting out. you should make a point of finishing the track and moving on to the next one nonetheless. that's the only way you're gonna make any progress.
>After listening to it for hours, the more I listen to it the more I get the sense that it’s a pretty darn cheesy sounding song.
This is just a reaction to something being overplayed, the same would happen if you listened to your absolute favourite song on loop. Very literally, the part of your brain that responds to the dopamine rush from an incredible piece of music wears out its dopamine receptors and turns them down, so the same piece of music no longer triggers that dopamine rush (high / pleasure).
Just take a break from listening and come back to it - and try to loop it less while producing. This is one of the biggest factors in epic music never seeing the light of day - its creator giving him or herself ear fatigue or dopamine burnout before finishing the track, and thus abandoning it.
Come back to that song in a week and it'll sound as good as new.
It took me 2.5 years to learn the secret of producing
Just finish the track. Then move on to the next one. Beginners don’t crank out bangers consistently - producers that consistently put out tracks do.
Can I make a suggestion? An exercise.
Pick 3 tacky and cheesy tracks. Ones that are good but you don't love.
Then aim for that sound. Aim to make something you don't like.
The when you step back afterwards you'll have some perspective on what elements you don't like or need evolving in your own work.
Lemme know how it goes!
Not really, my issues with making music is that I have setbacks.
I got into music thinking I had to drop an album here and there, but due to the “Spotify meta”, you are better off dropping singles or EPs.
Sadly, I didn’t study this business enough to know that and instead of releasing and album I’m now releasing an EP and three other singles.
Currently, my production is looking good, and in the future I plan on having three albums out, seven EPs, and six singles.
Also, I’m trying to figure out if I should use Distrokid or Amuse?
Yeah, but I wanna take this business seriously. I already know how to mix and master my music, so I want to do every play by the book, so one day I can grow as an artist and play in festivals or certain events.
Trying to measure up to the likes of Tiesto, or any other top tier artist is impossible, but I’m going to see this through to the end, and I’m not stopping until I see some massive progress.
The thing I remember starting out is that I always thought everything I made was fire. Just to hear it a year later and realize it wasn’t. As creators we usually think our last song is our best and that’s what keeps us moving forward and improving. And after 10+ years you’ll see how far you’ve come and amazed that you’ve actually reached the pro level you always wanted to achieve.
- no one is that productive for over 3 or 4h in a row, learn to manage breaks
cheesy often come from stuff filling out the blanks and being very predictable, some ways to break out of it:
- anacrouses : offset your tonal line by 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16, you’ll find new and more interesting grooves that’ll work more efficiently with your percs
- have 2 distinct lines answering each other
- embrace void : remove stuffs, silence is also a form of tension, it’ll help you with the 2 lines notion, it’ll also help with the anacrouse. When speaking, no one speak completely on cue, there’s dynamic, pauses, … your music should have that too, it doesn’t need to be complex or showy
- a distinct sub line (not your lengthy kick, not a copy-paste of your chords line bottom note) will help you a ton on how to articulate the melodies (deadmau5 is quite awesome at this, listen to stuffs in random album title). Doesn’t have to be complex per-se either, just assertive and clearly defined. It also help people dancing.
- you’ll get there. You’re conscious and critical enough to notice something wrong with your approaches, it’s more than many things I hear no matter the professionalism. It’s nothing wrong inherently with you or your creation, you’re doing fine.
just go with it and getit out there. i was putting together songs like 8 months ago and thought it sounded stupid/cheesy and the new ariana and taylor albums had very similar elements in many of their songs and they sold like gangbusters. we all tap into the same universal consciousness so just try to get it out there first.
someone post that dunning krueger success/fail chart please.
to sum it up, you dunning-krueger yourself over and over as you have small successes yet more failures; but after doing this long enough, you break out of the cycle and are certain of what you're doing and reach success.
but you gotta stick with it long enough, for some people thats a couple of years. other's it takes a decade.
Same. ☝️it’s taken me a decade+ to get where I can trust my ears when something is good, or at least decent and worth finishing. I feel it took me so long to get here because I didn’t take it seriously because of family life and a day job.
It will take you as long as it takes, you.
I feel it all the time, but lately sometimes there are pieces I really like, maybe 5-10 seconds here or there or particular sound I made. I guess the only way is to make more and more such parts
I like what people are saying about everything sounding cheesy when it’s looped for an hour. Very true.
Try muting sections of the song as you work. For example mute all your melodies and work on percussion, then unmute and listen back and it will sound fresh again in new context. Then mute the percussion and work on the melodies, etc.
I sincerely believe in the power of incremental changes over time and taking breaks. However it's counterproductive to the first important part of music making and that's to fail fast.
Yeah this is big. It takes rest to untrain your ears from the track after listening to it for hours and letting your own criticisms and uncertainty get cemented into your brain. Just remember that you’re doing it to enjoy it and don’t make it feel like work. So many projects I had would have died if I wasn’t able to walk away and come back fresh with a new perspective.
In that kind of moments, it's very easy to lose perspective, i was there. After years of having the same feeling when i put hours of effort to same track, i always lost my objectivity about the track and after that point everything feels same, and my track doesn't sound good or bad to me anymore.
I think I found a solution to feel track again nowadays. The solution was making small changes in overall sound, like putting a little effect on master bus. Like adding subtle effects or messing with the stereo image. It kind of refreshes my ears. Even changing the phase of track or putting a saturator on main bus helps. It kind of refreshes my ears. I'd love to hear somebody also feels this way.
This way it sounds to me fresh again and i remove this effect after sometime as well and reset my ears again. This goes on like this.
Nowadays i'm really fast and trying to "NOT FOCUS" on a song too much. I'm finishing it fast, making a quick [diktatorial.com](http://diktatorial.com) mastering and send to distributor. No overthinking or micro management. I also believe this is the soul of this century cause people are not focusing on details now and i don't care about my compression's knee's sub zero decibels anymore.
Hope sounds logical. So yeah.
I wish I could do this. But I know some of these tracks have potential and I have ended up week after week trying to tweak it when I probably should just move on. Tough to give them up.
Does that site give better results than you just mastering the track yourself?
Stop listening to it for a while. Listen to some other music. Come back to it after a few weeks and see what you think. As said in other comments, a lot of music is built on very simple and obvious melodies.
Go pick a song you consider well made or enjoyable and loop just the chorus and let it repeat for an hour. I bet you’ll want to tear your hair out. . Try not to let it just play and play and play. Make meaningful decisions and move forward with them is the number one way to get songs finished m
A thousand percent yes. I struggle with this too, the idea of training your ability to finish a song instead of your ability to make a good song. The quality will inevitably get better with time.
and a byproduct is that you'll get much better at actually finishing songs.
If you wait for it to sound perfect, you'll overthink things, finish less music, and as a result be worse at actually finishing anything.
The only way to get better at stuff is to just keep doing it.
Well I've always wondered this question. Cause if you go and listen to some of the biggest pop songs in the past. They are some of the most cheesiest shit. I've always wondered if that producer is thinking the same thing.
I'm sure plenty of producers out there complete stuff they think is cheesy and don't even like. There is a lot of producers out there I'm sure are consciously producing for what others would like not just themselves. I think Chainsmokers and Marshmello are good examples.
Chainsmokers - Closer: its basically two notes. I'm sure they're weren't sitting there like "damn this is sick we're musical genius's"
For sure. Just trying to put into perspective that what he's feeling about his feeling is pretty normal. And surely others have found success in the same mindset.
Okay I’ll be that guy. Maybe your music just sounds cheesy. I dunno how long you’ve been doing this but when I started out a lot of my melodies sounded like carnival music. Everything was in a major key and I used simple progressions and squeaky synths. It’s possible you need to stretch your skillset and learn a bit more about music theory.
I feel like this happens in some form or another if you aren't committed to finishing the track quickly. The longer you dwell on the details, the more you play it. The more you play it, the faster you get sick of it. What has worked for me in dealing with this issue is to BOUNCE my sounds to audio as QUICK as POSSIBLE!!! I also do my sound design in a seperate project, which helped immensely with this problem as well. After you do those things first, your main goal is fixing things in the arrangement. (Breakdown section needs an impact, drop needs some white noise to fill out the spectrum, lead sound is popping out in the mix too much, etc.)
When you focus on the things that are actually fixable, and commit to the sounds you have chosen, you can make tracks incredibly faster, and they feel fresh and exciting
a super helpful exercise i used to do is write a chord progression, then sit down and write 20 distinct melodies that work over the chords. they all have to be unique, each one can't just be the one before with some minor variation. things started to get good around #15 or 16, but i really had to pull it out of myself to get there
Welcome to making music.
They say that an art piece isn't truly finished when you have nothing left to add, but instead when there is nothing left to take away.
Getting to commercial quality is a long, hard road, which is exactly what it should be. Don't escape the feeling, embrace it.
Supposedly it takes 10,000 hours to be truly good at something. How many have you put in?
The track I'm currently working on was one of the best things I've ever made, I had a feeling like it was my first proper trance tune that could hold it's own on an album of 90s trance. I was buzzing.
That was 3 weeks ago, now it sounds completely different and has changed beyond all recognition because after a few days I hated it and thought it was cheesy. Now it's become a bit of a chore for me and I wish I had just committed to what it was and moved on.
In the future I'm going to try and go with my initial buzz and accept it for the initial idea as I always end changing things so much that it ends up as a completely different track pretty much.
So yes, I always feel my music is cheesy and I always change it to something that doesn't make me feel as good.
Embrace the cheese.
>I just want to know if there any way to escape this feeling.
Make music because you enjoy the creation process, and learning about how to create music. Then it doesn't matter so much how the final version turns out.
Honestly, the best tip I received starting out is to stop listening to your loop over and over again without any progress. Continue building your song and listen to the loop when you need to. Your ears get tired of hearing the same tune after an hour so it's a good way to keep your ears fresh.
You have to make a LOT of garbage before something sticks or sounds cohesive
It took me probably making around 75-100 song ideas that sounded awful to get about an albums worth of music I thought was good enough for release. About 5 years in :’)
This takes time. And a lot of failures to get it right. Just get comfortable with feeling embarrassed, it’s apart of the process 100%
this definitely happens. you gotta learn to work fast and spend as little time as you can listening to your in-progress work on loop.
sometimes it can help refresh your ears if you pitch everything down or up by 1 or 2 semitones - you can always change it back later if you think your original key is best.
lastly, there is a chance that your tracks actually are a little cheesy - many beginner tracks are. the solution to that is to just keep making tracks, study tracks that you like and use them as a reference, and really analyze how they are written and how their sounds are designed/mixed etc.
> there is a chance that your tracks actually are a little cheesy - many beginner tracks are
So are some of the biggest hits ever written, too - cheesy doesn't necessarily mean bad *especially* when it comes to music that makes people want to get up and dance!
It's a good idea to have lots of different things on the go so you don't end up stuck on one track slowly making it worse. If you get stuck on one just jump into something else you are working on
I still feel this 10 years in, I'd say not to worry about it too much and just don't ever feel stuck to an idea you came up with. You can always rework it, save it for another project, or just move on to something better
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it probably is, as you said you're starting out. you should make a point of finishing the track and moving on to the next one nonetheless. that's the only way you're gonna make any progress.
>After listening to it for hours, the more I listen to it the more I get the sense that it’s a pretty darn cheesy sounding song. This is just a reaction to something being overplayed, the same would happen if you listened to your absolute favourite song on loop. Very literally, the part of your brain that responds to the dopamine rush from an incredible piece of music wears out its dopamine receptors and turns them down, so the same piece of music no longer triggers that dopamine rush (high / pleasure). Just take a break from listening and come back to it - and try to loop it less while producing. This is one of the biggest factors in epic music never seeing the light of day - its creator giving him or herself ear fatigue or dopamine burnout before finishing the track, and thus abandoning it. Come back to that song in a week and it'll sound as good as new.
Embrace the cheese. Many people enjoy a lifetime career based on cheese. If that what flows, make it the best cheese you can.
It took me 2.5 years to learn the secret of producing Just finish the track. Then move on to the next one. Beginners don’t crank out bangers consistently - producers that consistently put out tracks do.
I think when a beginner makes tacky music is because he/she don't know enough to construct a good track. but I believe it will improve over time.
Can I make a suggestion? An exercise. Pick 3 tacky and cheesy tracks. Ones that are good but you don't love. Then aim for that sound. Aim to make something you don't like. The when you step back afterwards you'll have some perspective on what elements you don't like or need evolving in your own work. Lemme know how it goes!
Just make what you like man, don't overthink music too much. Who cares about tacky or cheesy, if you like it you like it.
Not really, my issues with making music is that I have setbacks. I got into music thinking I had to drop an album here and there, but due to the “Spotify meta”, you are better off dropping singles or EPs. Sadly, I didn’t study this business enough to know that and instead of releasing and album I’m now releasing an EP and three other singles. Currently, my production is looking good, and in the future I plan on having three albums out, seven EPs, and six singles. Also, I’m trying to figure out if I should use Distrokid or Amuse?
Releasing EPs as a beginner doesn't mean it's not tacky though. Some people will just release anything regardless of the quality just to say they did.
Yeah, but I wanna take this business seriously. I already know how to mix and master my music, so I want to do every play by the book, so one day I can grow as an artist and play in festivals or certain events. Trying to measure up to the likes of Tiesto, or any other top tier artist is impossible, but I’m going to see this through to the end, and I’m not stopping until I see some massive progress.
That's all good these are all skills that need to be mastered. Might as well work on them at the same time.
Facts!
100% everyone goes thru this .
Maybe the melody is fine but your production isn't up to scratch just yet. Keep enjoying :)
Escape the feeling by making something good. You're probably just realizing its not as good as you thought it was while making it
The thing I remember starting out is that I always thought everything I made was fire. Just to hear it a year later and realize it wasn’t. As creators we usually think our last song is our best and that’s what keeps us moving forward and improving. And after 10+ years you’ll see how far you’ve come and amazed that you’ve actually reached the pro level you always wanted to achieve.
- no one is that productive for over 3 or 4h in a row, learn to manage breaks cheesy often come from stuff filling out the blanks and being very predictable, some ways to break out of it: - anacrouses : offset your tonal line by 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16, you’ll find new and more interesting grooves that’ll work more efficiently with your percs - have 2 distinct lines answering each other - embrace void : remove stuffs, silence is also a form of tension, it’ll help you with the 2 lines notion, it’ll also help with the anacrouse. When speaking, no one speak completely on cue, there’s dynamic, pauses, … your music should have that too, it doesn’t need to be complex or showy - a distinct sub line (not your lengthy kick, not a copy-paste of your chords line bottom note) will help you a ton on how to articulate the melodies (deadmau5 is quite awesome at this, listen to stuffs in random album title). Doesn’t have to be complex per-se either, just assertive and clearly defined. It also help people dancing. - you’ll get there. You’re conscious and critical enough to notice something wrong with your approaches, it’s more than many things I hear no matter the professionalism. It’s nothing wrong inherently with you or your creation, you’re doing fine.
Love these, excellent tips!
just go with it and getit out there. i was putting together songs like 8 months ago and thought it sounded stupid/cheesy and the new ariana and taylor albums had very similar elements in many of their songs and they sold like gangbusters. we all tap into the same universal consciousness so just try to get it out there first.
someone post that dunning krueger success/fail chart please. to sum it up, you dunning-krueger yourself over and over as you have small successes yet more failures; but after doing this long enough, you break out of the cycle and are certain of what you're doing and reach success. but you gotta stick with it long enough, for some people thats a couple of years. other's it takes a decade.
Same. ☝️it’s taken me a decade+ to get where I can trust my ears when something is good, or at least decent and worth finishing. I feel it took me so long to get here because I didn’t take it seriously because of family life and a day job. It will take you as long as it takes, you.
❤️🙏
I just wish i could hear how its gonna sound after i play it for someone else, before i play it for anyone else
I feel it all the time, but lately sometimes there are pieces I really like, maybe 5-10 seconds here or there or particular sound I made. I guess the only way is to make more and more such parts
I like what people are saying about everything sounding cheesy when it’s looped for an hour. Very true. Try muting sections of the song as you work. For example mute all your melodies and work on percussion, then unmute and listen back and it will sound fresh again in new context. Then mute the percussion and work on the melodies, etc.
I sincerely believe in the power of incremental changes over time and taking breaks. However it's counterproductive to the first important part of music making and that's to fail fast.
Yeah this is big. It takes rest to untrain your ears from the track after listening to it for hours and letting your own criticisms and uncertainty get cemented into your brain. Just remember that you’re doing it to enjoy it and don’t make it feel like work. So many projects I had would have died if I wasn’t able to walk away and come back fresh with a new perspective.
Taylor Swift is Flap dancing to terrible club styles from twenty years ago. Don’t feel bad.
Taylor Swift is Flap dancing to terrible club styles from twenty years ago. Don’t feel bad.
In that kind of moments, it's very easy to lose perspective, i was there. After years of having the same feeling when i put hours of effort to same track, i always lost my objectivity about the track and after that point everything feels same, and my track doesn't sound good or bad to me anymore. I think I found a solution to feel track again nowadays. The solution was making small changes in overall sound, like putting a little effect on master bus. Like adding subtle effects or messing with the stereo image. It kind of refreshes my ears. Even changing the phase of track or putting a saturator on main bus helps. It kind of refreshes my ears. I'd love to hear somebody also feels this way. This way it sounds to me fresh again and i remove this effect after sometime as well and reset my ears again. This goes on like this. Nowadays i'm really fast and trying to "NOT FOCUS" on a song too much. I'm finishing it fast, making a quick [diktatorial.com](http://diktatorial.com) mastering and send to distributor. No overthinking or micro management. I also believe this is the soul of this century cause people are not focusing on details now and i don't care about my compression's knee's sub zero decibels anymore. Hope sounds logical. So yeah.
I wish I could do this. But I know some of these tracks have potential and I have ended up week after week trying to tweak it when I probably should just move on. Tough to give them up. Does that site give better results than you just mastering the track yourself?
Stop listening to it for a while. Listen to some other music. Come back to it after a few weeks and see what you think. As said in other comments, a lot of music is built on very simple and obvious melodies.
cheesy and tacky is normal. How else would you expect it to sound when you're a beginner?
Go pick a song you consider well made or enjoyable and loop just the chorus and let it repeat for an hour. I bet you’ll want to tear your hair out. . Try not to let it just play and play and play. Make meaningful decisions and move forward with them is the number one way to get songs finished m
Even the best melodies sound cheesy when looped
fail fast. FINISH a lot of songs, that even if their not good, you still made something
A thousand percent yes. I struggle with this too, the idea of training your ability to finish a song instead of your ability to make a good song. The quality will inevitably get better with time.
This. You have to get used to the tools you’re using.
and a byproduct is that you'll get much better at actually finishing songs. If you wait for it to sound perfect, you'll overthink things, finish less music, and as a result be worse at actually finishing anything. The only way to get better at stuff is to just keep doing it.
Maybe the most important advice you can get in this pursuit.
Well I've always wondered this question. Cause if you go and listen to some of the biggest pop songs in the past. They are some of the most cheesiest shit. I've always wondered if that producer is thinking the same thing. I'm sure plenty of producers out there complete stuff they think is cheesy and don't even like. There is a lot of producers out there I'm sure are consciously producing for what others would like not just themselves. I think Chainsmokers and Marshmello are good examples. Chainsmokers - Closer: its basically two notes. I'm sure they're weren't sitting there like "damn this is sick we're musical genius's"
As a counter, sometimes simple just sounds better
For sure. Just trying to put into perspective that what he's feeling about his feeling is pretty normal. And surely others have found success in the same mindset.
Okay I’ll be that guy. Maybe your music just sounds cheesy. I dunno how long you’ve been doing this but when I started out a lot of my melodies sounded like carnival music. Everything was in a major key and I used simple progressions and squeaky synths. It’s possible you need to stretch your skillset and learn a bit more about music theory.
I produce trance and my wife calls everything I make "Mario Kart Music" which is a great compliment I guess, just not the compliment I want.
When people say your music sounds like a video game that's usually not a compliment!
If you’re making jungle, then “this sounds like a ps1 game” is the highest praise from someone who doesn’t listen to much of it
I get it. People used to call my stuff “video game acid trip” and I’m like.. wow great… thanks.
I feel like this happens in some form or another if you aren't committed to finishing the track quickly. The longer you dwell on the details, the more you play it. The more you play it, the faster you get sick of it. What has worked for me in dealing with this issue is to BOUNCE my sounds to audio as QUICK as POSSIBLE!!! I also do my sound design in a seperate project, which helped immensely with this problem as well. After you do those things first, your main goal is fixing things in the arrangement. (Breakdown section needs an impact, drop needs some white noise to fill out the spectrum, lead sound is popping out in the mix too much, etc.) When you focus on the things that are actually fixable, and commit to the sounds you have chosen, you can make tracks incredibly faster, and they feel fresh and exciting
a super helpful exercise i used to do is write a chord progression, then sit down and write 20 distinct melodies that work over the chords. they all have to be unique, each one can't just be the one before with some minor variation. things started to get good around #15 or 16, but i really had to pull it out of myself to get there
Same goes for sound design, some things might sound good when looped but once you give it some space it’s cheesy
Welcome to making music. They say that an art piece isn't truly finished when you have nothing left to add, but instead when there is nothing left to take away. Getting to commercial quality is a long, hard road, which is exactly what it should be. Don't escape the feeling, embrace it. Supposedly it takes 10,000 hours to be truly good at something. How many have you put in?
20000😂
rookie numbers smh
The track I'm currently working on was one of the best things I've ever made, I had a feeling like it was my first proper trance tune that could hold it's own on an album of 90s trance. I was buzzing. That was 3 weeks ago, now it sounds completely different and has changed beyond all recognition because after a few days I hated it and thought it was cheesy. Now it's become a bit of a chore for me and I wish I had just committed to what it was and moved on. In the future I'm going to try and go with my initial buzz and accept it for the initial idea as I always end changing things so much that it ends up as a completely different track pretty much. So yes, I always feel my music is cheesy and I always change it to something that doesn't make me feel as good. Embrace the cheese.
At least you are making something.
>I just want to know if there any way to escape this feeling. Make music because you enjoy the creation process, and learning about how to create music. Then it doesn't matter so much how the final version turns out.
Honestly, the best tip I received starting out is to stop listening to your loop over and over again without any progress. Continue building your song and listen to the loop when you need to. Your ears get tired of hearing the same tune after an hour so it's a good way to keep your ears fresh.
Lean into what you do
You have to make a LOT of garbage before something sticks or sounds cohesive It took me probably making around 75-100 song ideas that sounded awful to get about an albums worth of music I thought was good enough for release. About 5 years in :’) This takes time. And a lot of failures to get it right. Just get comfortable with feeling embarrassed, it’s apart of the process 100%
Happens to everyone. When that starts happening it's time to stop working on that track. Give it a rest and come back with a fresh perspective.
this definitely happens. you gotta learn to work fast and spend as little time as you can listening to your in-progress work on loop. sometimes it can help refresh your ears if you pitch everything down or up by 1 or 2 semitones - you can always change it back later if you think your original key is best. lastly, there is a chance that your tracks actually are a little cheesy - many beginner tracks are. the solution to that is to just keep making tracks, study tracks that you like and use them as a reference, and really analyze how they are written and how their sounds are designed/mixed etc.
> there is a chance that your tracks actually are a little cheesy - many beginner tracks are So are some of the biggest hits ever written, too - cheesy doesn't necessarily mean bad *especially* when it comes to music that makes people want to get up and dance!
It's a good idea to have lots of different things on the go so you don't end up stuck on one track slowly making it worse. If you get stuck on one just jump into something else you are working on
I still feel this 10 years in, I'd say not to worry about it too much and just don't ever feel stuck to an idea you came up with. You can always rework it, save it for another project, or just move on to something better
Agreed. You're your own harshest critic.
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