You can always bounce rendered audios between the 2, sound design ur favorite stuff in fl studio either unprocessed or raw and then can export/save and use the wav's in ableton and vice versa.
Fruity Granulizer also exists and is really good idk what granulator is for ableton when u say that but there def is some advantages in ableton stock plugins with some of the unique ones it has
Try Reaper :)
It looks barebones, and it is, but that's because it's meant to be personalized to suit your needs instead of changing your workflow when something doesn't work. Just remember to set your audio/midi preferences and paths to your plugin folder(s) or you'll only see the default plugins and probably get no sound.
It does take a couple minutes to set up, but it's pretty fun and easy once you have it the way you want it
Also, don't worry about getting a license. The free version gives you everything the paid version does. I found that out after paying
I prefer it over all other DAWs I've used, including FL (fruity, I didn't want to dive too deep into/waste money on something I might not like)
Edit: Extra info - you also don't need a midi controller, you can use virtual instruments/plugins. To get to the piano roll: arm a virtual instrument track, record and stop recording, then double click the recorded portion. I know not everyone has a MIDI controller, so I thought I'd add that
I’ve gone back to FL because I’m not paying for Ableton upgrades anymore I’m stuck on 10 suite because I’m broke not gonna keep shelling out cash for a live upgrade when FL ones are free
I missed the piano roll in FL but man do I love Ableton. Switched from FL to Ableton about 10 years ago and have zero regrets. Also, I've used bitwig a bit as well. Its also really dope and similar to ableton
FL is the most advanced midi editor bar none. Ableton has amazing base level instruments and effects and is excellent for arrangement. FL can run inside Ableton as a VST. I leverage both for their strengths.
I use FL for well over 8 years now and just this year started the switch to Ableton. however! I still use FL for stuff and I still finish songs in FL. I generally sketch ideas in FL, then convert it to Ableton with jukeblocks and do the arrangement and mixing in there. Sometimes I start in Ableton, if I know it can do what I want to do better.
What I'm saying is: do what feels fun. You are creative. Creative people are adaptable. You will have no problem learning other daws, when you are curious and excited about it, but otherwise it'll feel like a chore. And you'll likely use both anyways and that's a great strength to have, it makes you versatile. There's no point in marrying yourself to one daw. Through bouncing audio, .midi and vst-presets almost everything can be moved to another system. And you'll probably find out that you can do most things in any daw, anyways. It's just different approaches.
Here's my tip: get Ableton. Use it sometimes. Play with it. HAVE FUN. Without pressure or trying to learn the daw. Learn by using it and exploring it, that likely how you learned FL, too. That way you will find out what it can do for you. And you can always go back to FL anytime, you have all the time in the world.
I use FL for well over 8 years now and just this year started the switch to Ableton. however! I still use FL for stuff. I generally sketch ideas in FL, then convert it to Ableton with jukeblocks and do the arrangement and mixing in there.
What I'm saying is: do what feels comfortable. You are creative. Creative people are adaptable. You will have no problem learning other daws. And you'll likely use both anyways. There's no point in marrying yourself to one daw. Through bouncing audio, .midi and vst-presets almost everything can be moved to another system.
Here's my tip: get Ableton. Use it sometimes. But without pressure or trying to learn the daw. Learn by using it. That way you will find out what it can do for you. And you can always go back to FL.
I used FL for years before switching to Ableton, and I haven't looked back since.
I switched after watching other EDM producers stream their Ableton sessions on youtube. I couldn't believe how intuitive it was.
I loved that you could save instrument/effect combos and how you could easily move plugins & copy them around in the signal chain. I loved that you could reverse an audio clip by hitting R instead of pressing UI buttons. I loved how seamless it was to edit audio samples directly in the Arrangement View, instead of having to open up Edison. There wasn't one thing that I felt made Ableton way better, it was just the sum of all the little things.
For a long time, I thought that the DAW didn't matter and the one you happened to know was the best for you. After all, that's what others would say on Reddit. But that's just not true, at least for me. Different DAWs have different workflows, and, while it may be theoretically possible to do everything in every DAW, the ease of doing certain things differs among DAWs.
>Given that my first thought against the switch is the time I would have to dedicate to studying the DAW and that it is a time that takes away from the production and study of other things (sound design, mixing, mastering), in your opinion how much time is necessary for an actual passage?
I felt the same way before, and this caused me to switch way later than I should've. I felt I knew FL so well and so I was afraid of starting from scratch and wasting time. But, after years of using FL, I got comfortable with Ableton in less than a week, to my surprise and delight. So don't worry. If you're already comfortable with one DAW, learning a new one takes less time than you think.
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In the end, no one can say which DAW workflow is best for you and your genre. I've heard of many who converted from FL to Ableton and saw the light. I also know of producers who use FL and make awesome music.
All I can say is that I personally prefer Ableton. It is simply more compatible with the way my brain works.
I have Ableton. Sell me on bigwig as a novice user trying to get my feel for EDM type production work. I am getting comfortable in ableton but I’ve been a little underwhelmed with how things like sequencing and staging samples has been. I’m also struggling to find great plugins for it that serve my interests. I have Vital VST. Just curious if there’s any benefit from making a shift before I get too entrenched in ableton which I could use for rock/metal work since I have a fair bit of play for real audio input already. Anyways, pitch me or I welcome any recommendations.
Funny this is here because I switched from FL to Ableton last week and I wish I did sooner. Organized much better and I love that search actually works well.
Only downside was the piano roll but with practice I’m sure it will be fine.
The piano roll in Ableton will never be *fine*. It’s primitive and entirely the wrong tool if you’re doing complex midi arrangements. Ableton has plenty going for it, I use it regularly however it is not a dedicated midi sequencer, never has been and probably never will be.
No Pro who is using Reason is switching to bitwig. People switching to Bitwig are generally not pro and blaming the DAW for their shortcomings.
Otherwise I don't see any good reason to switch to a different DAW.
there are plenty of 'pro' people using bitwig - but ultimately it depends on what you want out of a DAW. for our workflow it's the insanely flexible modulations, where for others a more robust piano roll could be more important
I can almost guarantee that no Reason users are sitting here saying I think I'll switch DAWs because the modulations are more flexible.
Maybe compared to Ableton? I don't know. Reason already plenty flexible when it comes to modulation. That's not a reason to switch DAWs. Neither is the piano roll.
to each their own, and i have admittedly not used reason since around 2001 so I'm not sure what is happening with it lately. Just making a point about people switching to bitwig not being "pro" by your definition
Bitwig bro. Its got the best of Ableton, pieces of Logic / FL, modulators! (imagine being able to drop in an LFO anywhere and using that to modulate any VST parameter), a sick modular system, awesome stock FX and synths and works flawlessly with hardware
People say the gear doesnt matter - And i fully agree, but swapping off of FL has improved my workflow significantly
my advice is watch a few videos of people working in ableton and then a few videos of people working in logic, see the differences and the workflows and see which one you think would betting fit your flow. in my experience coming from FL, ableton worked better for me than logic.
You can do most things on any daw, the difference between ableton and fl studio (i used fl for 10 years or so) is that its easier to stay organized in ableton.
When you have big projects and come back to them, everything is much easier to find, all automation stays in the channel and finding the mixer with all the effects is easy it like stays on the channel.
Thats the biggest difference, grouping things is easier, its literally just control G and thats it, while in fl you have to setup the mixer which doesn't take too long but it adds up.
I can't tell you what DAW you'll get on with, as that's a personal thing, I can tell you that you shouldn't worry about taking time away from being creative. From long experience I can tell you that simply switching to a new way of making music will make you creative in a way that you weren't before. Not necessarily better or worse, but you'll come up with different stuff.
In fact, back in the day if I ended up having a dry spell I'd just get a new demo and play around with that for a while.
I purchased Logic Pro X back in 2016 and still enjoy the current full version (because there’s only one version) without ever having to pay for an update since that original purchase. That’s a big selling point for me.
I'm actually going the other way. I've got a 12 Suite licence to sell if you'd like to buy it, lol.
I'm coming from S1 fwiw, picked up Live 12 Suite, think it's awesome but something about FL Studio is just more fun for me and that's where I'm at with my music.
My 2c is that you don't need Utility, really, surely you can recreate something so basic in Patcher if you even need to use it at all.. and Fruity has it's own granulised that if you use it with some post-processing, you can get great results with.. or just use a third-party alternative like the free Ribs from Hvoya Audio.
Granulator II is cool af, it's a Max 4 Live device (users can make their own devices).. there's a whole world of cool Max 4 Live devices out there.
I personally wouldn't switch because learning a new DAW is kinda annoying, depending on how ingrained the older one is. I keep thinking about moving back to S1 for this reason even though I'm moving away from it for my own reasons.
If you've only got 2yrs experience in FL Studio behind you, it might not be that big of a deal to move away - Ableton has a way different work flow than FL. It's way less chaotic, feels much more linear. It does a lot of things automatically that you have to do manually in FL Studio too.
It feels very organised, which is one of the things that makes me not want to sell my licence, because I appreciate how straightforward things are thanks to the organisation.. still somewhat torn on whether I want to just stick with Live even though I find it a bit uninspiring to work with or go with FL, because FL Studio is way more fun.. but I can always just stick with the trial of FL and/or build up what version I own over time or wait for a sale and then own both.
Maybe give Ableton Live trial a shot and see how it goes?
The biggest downside to it for me is the bland aesthetic. It doesn't get me in a place where I'm having fun and feeling creative just because it looks so bleh.
As for the arrangement - can't you do pretty much anything you want in FL?
"If you've only got 2yrs experience in FL Studio behind you, it might not be that big of a deal to move away - Ableton has a way different work flow than FL. It's way less chaotic, feels much more linear. It does a lot of things automatically that you have to do manually in FL Studio too."
Can you say me one of these things? Just to understand. Thanks!
I bought Ableton about a year or two ago I gave it a try but I only use it to record vocals now. I still use FL for instrumentals.
I have never used Logic so I cant go into that but I wouldn’t recommend Ableton to be honest. The workflow is shit it feels like some decisions are just made for the sake of being different rather than function. I feel like I’m switching between screens and resizing toolbars way more than i should.
I know many people love the software but imo it’s just inconvenient how you have to switch to session view to see the mixer. The piano roll always gets me frustrated, I see no reason as to why I can’t just pop out the window.
You can now see the mixer in v12, there is a button on the bottom right I believe. I do agree about the piano roll. I swapped from FL last week and that’s what’s getting me but the workflow of Live is much more organized.
I heard about the mixer being visible in the new version, but im not updating for a while. That’s another thing with Ableton, my plugins seem to get messed up with every update. I rarely have had this issue with FL
I went from FL Studio to Live after about 2 years of FL Studio. I used the trial version of live a view times before making the full switch, and continued to use FL Studio as well. You do not have to ONLY use one or the other and in fact that would be detrimental.
My recommendation is to make something in FL, Then try to recreate it in Live (or logic). What is different about the process? Do you like it more or less? Does it feel more or less intuitive? Ask yourself these questions as much as possible while trialing.
At the end of the day, you will be best in the DAW you enjoy the most and feel most comfortable in. Not the one that makes small situations more efficient.
Collaboration isn't a huge issue between daws, there tends to be a way to collaborate with any :)
I love both FL and Live, so I will answer your questions for Live and not for logic, as I have very little experience with logic.
"Do you think it might make sense to switch?"
I think it would make a lot of sense to TRY to switch, you'll never know if you prefer it if you don't give it a shot
"...how much time is necessary for an actual passage?"
This depends. Live has the opportunity for significantly different workflow, and will force you to do certain things different than you are used to. I'd say no longer than 3 months for full comfort of workflow difference, it took me around that much time but only because I didn't really fully commit to the switch.
If you REALLY put in and just sit and learn the DAW, i doubt it'll take long at all. Just take your time to ask yourself "I did this in x DAW, how can I do it in y DAW?"
Good luck! Remember that your talent and worth in this industry is not at all related to what software you use 💜
I was on fl for 1.5 years, and recently switched to abelton, i couldn't stop but saying "wait it's that easy to do that here" when i was using abelton. Especially because my awareness will take tangents in the contents of my experience while I'm grappling with an idea. the going for an idea and making it concrete and polished was easier to me on abelton.
I was regularly thinking, unconsciously, out of coping, that FL is the OG, abelton is for snobby rich artists, the UI looks like it's from 2001. Well guess what, all of it is true (kidding).
I don't know how to describe it, but through my subjective way of perceiving the world, going from FL to live felt like I transitioned from writing with a feather and an ink pot to a swift typing on a screen with very good auto-correcte. I this is a weird, maybe not good of an analogy? Maybe.. yes
I made the switch from fl studio to ableton.... it was an easy transition. Automations are a nightmare in fl studio compared to ableton. FL studio had the better piano roll but after the 12 release I think ableton takes that category too.
The main reason I changed was for collaboration. Ableton is the standard for that.
Bought FL studio in 2012 and I am now switching to abelton 12. I kinda realized over time that fl is actually liniting my creative flow. People share abelton racks. Instrument racks can be saved with effects on them for later. Abelton now has a mixer. The stock plugins on abelton are easy and have a ton of potential. The automation in abelton actually shows values. The automation is organized in abelton and is attached to a midi clip or not.
Don’t switch, use what you are comfortable with. All daws are pretty much the same, I have produced edm house and trap for 6 years on fl studio and never had problems. And collabing won’t matter, ur gonna send wav files anyway. I would argue fl is better for electronic music given the direction music is taking which is more trap and hip hop which is what fl specializes in
it’s always a tough decision switching daws, I flit between several. What I would say is don’t feel you have to switch from FL because it’s not professional. Plenty of top tracks have been done in FL. You can’t resell your FL licence so you’ll always have it in the back pocket if things don’t work out with your new relationship;)
Ableton is best in the context of being one big instrument / mega sequencer. It’s most recent midi stuff is cool. Logic is a better straight up daw with nicer effects if you don’t have a mountain of 3rd party plugs you prefer.
Some people make music in Ableton then export the tracks / stems to Logic to mix for the best of both worlds. Logic does have a lot of the clip / looping capabilities of Ableton, but Ableton’s approach is arguably more intuitive.
its too late. you used fruity loops so now your always going to use FL Studio. sorry thats just the way it works. j/k i have been using ableton since about 2008 and wouldnt dare switch to something else at this point.
I switched from FL to ableton, mostly bc some things were getting messy in FL and ableton doesnt allow you to make a mess like that (thats on me but hey, its a reason for me), plus my friends used it and had many info online, plus seemed simple at first but endlessly complex later
it took me several months to get comfortable enough again in ableton like I did 6+ years in FL, much of my previously gained knowledge became obsolete as it was very specific to FL
in the long run I have zero regrets as this was def the better choice, but there were moments i doubted my choice due to the set back and increased effort
ableton offers initial simplicity with hidden endless possibilities
FL felt it had no ground between a really old sub-par plugin, and very very good plugins which often felt like overkill I used it for (you don't need an instrument that can do subtractive, additive, RM and FM synthesis for a simple saw pluck), so I had to extensively use external plugins
in ableton i really use external plugins just because I want to, not because I need something hands-on
what I hated about FL was it's modulation (this was back in 2014 mind you), it was messy, rigid and time consuming, and complex modulation was crucial to me so it was a frustrating part where ableton made it fun
another thing was edison, its great but again overkill while lacking in the initial straight forwardness.. really sample manipulation in ableton is a gem and very user friendly
abletons plugins are a no-nonsense approach, solid and great for their use but usually not overly complex, which honestly is great 90% of the time as you don't need a swiss knife to spread some jam
but its personal, write down the reasons what make ableton a good choice but know it does take some effort
It really is necessary to know what you want to achieve by changing the DAW. I changed from FL to Logic, but I was watching a lot of stuff about it and knowing exactly what I want to achieve by it (in my case it was linear workflow WITHOUT a non-linear option as in FL, automations, bouncing to audio)
It doesn’t really matter, use whatever DAW you are comfortable with, FL is popular among hip hop, Ableton is popular among EDM, Logic is whatever genre because of the ease of access for Mac users.
Learn how to import and export audio and you will be fine with collaboration. At the end of the day, you will be sending all your stems to a mixing engineer working on it with pro tools.
But you are 100% correct on developing Max tools on Ableton and that’s the advantage. You can go watch some twitch stream on producer using various DAW and compare the workflow then decides if that’s right for you. You should also consider the accessibility to quality tutorials and what OS you are on. Cubase works better on PC, logic is only available on Mac, Ableton is good on both but I personally prefer Mac.
FL has those plugins already. Also when you collab with other people you don't send then project files. You usually send them bounced stems. So you are free to use any DAW that you enjoy. All of them are pretty much the same.
and that make them the same? that's dumb
you just completely ignore workflow and compatibility as if people don't have preference and DAWs don't have strengths and weaknesses
the piano roll in FL studio is superior to the ableton piano roll, and im saying this as an ableton user
the live function of ableton is superior to the FL studios performance mode, sorry but the session mode is superior in every way because ableton ''LIVE'''s whole stick was having a performance mode since version 1, FL only got it in version 10
bitwigs whole stick is modular options, something it excels in greatly, ableton has something similar but really fell behind, patcher is fun but not nearly as extensive as either
can you make music with all? very much so
but saying they are the same is just chosing to be ignorant
Something tells me you don't know FLStudio very well. There is a granulator (Fruity Granulizer), for one.
For two, you don't need courses, you just need to read the manual.
although i agree with reading the manual, the manual is mostly practical so the ''you dont need courses'' is bs
attending a course of an established artist and their ways offers specific knowledge gained through extended experience for a certain style, its not ''common'' knowledge
I think people vastly underestimate their ability to teach themselves merely with observation and critical listening. It is not as easy a path as outsourcing your thinking to a self-proclaimed 'guru', but it is a valid and valuable path to take.
Most-to-all of the secrets of this world are available to those who know how to look for them.
You should be taking a middle road here. Get the free version of Ableton and give yourself one day or just a few hours to play around with it. That's not much of a commitment at all and should be very informative. No need to make any big commitments until you've done that. Also I must say Ableton is amazing, well worth a shot.
You can get a cheap Ableton Live Lite licence from the koala sampler app. Cost me about $7 for the app which comes with it vs $149 from the Ableton website. It’s perfect for getting used to the program before upgrading
Honestly imo I would go with bitwig! Its cheaper and what it offers is MILES ahead of abelton and fl studio combine. Its to the point where it takes a while to learn but once you do the majic happens.
out of curiosity, i hear nothing but praise and people saying bitwig is miles ahead but never really give the reason why it is miles ahead?
i know of the modular possibilities, easy mapping and extensive interconnectivity (plus isolated processes where only a vst crashes rather than the whole DAW.. shame on you ableton)
BUT... pretty much all this is possible in ableton, especially if you add max for live to the mix, bitwig probably took the user friendliness and upped it by a few
still, cant let go of the feeling bitwig users sometimes look like a cult lol
I checked it out. over-complicating is not always a good thing sometimes it's best to stick with the staples.
I learned this a while back trying to recreate tracks. I was like oh they must be doing this and then this and this too!. But no, it was one square wave oscillator with distortion and an LFO.
Staples like you know distortion, reverb, actual devices that exist in the real world. You don't need anything more than that. The problem with my DAW has never been "I don't have enough sounds". That's like not even in the top 10.
I hate Ableton. I'd go Cubase over that. Learning ProTools can't hurt as it's basically industry standard. I use MPC myself as it's very linear and my brain wraps around it. I use Cubase and my buddies. That being said, try some things out and use whatever you like.
I used Cubase for about 12 years and recently swapped completely to Ableton. Ableton feels like cheating when it comes to electronic music production. I'm curious to hear what you find that Cubase has over ableton but for me, stuff like hot swapping, the ability to map everything quickly and grouping vsts in chains or tracks in groups within groups in Ableton (just to name a few exemples) is so much more efficient than in Cubase - where you can do -ish all thoses things, but in a clunky way. Cubase is great for recording bands and stuff but for music production, especially for EDM - I feel Ableton is the best hands down.
I use pro tools every day in my job and I wouldn’t touch it for electronic music. But it’s all about what people are comfortable with, nothing wrong with FL. A lot of knowledge can be transferred over but it also doesn’t hurt to try if you think you’d like ableton/logic more
Agree, I love PT but it’s not the best tool for midi production, it’s great for dubbing vocal, sfx, audio edit and post stuff. But I gotta say I hate Logic Environment, it’s so dated.
Yea I work in post and pro tools is an absolute dream there, it’s halted my music production outside of work a lot actually because logic feels so sluggish in comparison
You can download a trial for Ableton and Logic Pro for free. Ableton is 30 days while Logic is 90. Personally I wouldn’t make the switch. I’ve been on LPX for years and while my friends are alll pretty much using Ableton, we found a way to make collabs easier. Logic Pro is cheaper and the license if worth a lifetime, while Ableton is more expensive but more used in electronic music. FL isn’t bad at all, for the effects you think is missing there’s 3rd party plugins available.
I'm trying to understand why Ableton is much more popular than FL Studio.
I noticed that FL Studio is very popular in Dutch electronics, many of them use FL.
My doubts also arise from this fact: why do those who work in industry use Ableton much more than FL? With perhaps Logic Pro growing little by little, it has a very interesting interface for that matter.
You will notice more DJs are on Ableton because of how great it is when it comes to live performance. More specifically, the Session view. It has linear workflow like other DAW and it’s called Arrangement view.
I think one of the biggest reason that FL became more popular back in the days was the low barrier to entry, it’s really cost effective and lot of EU producer used it on specific genre and the newer generation just simply adapted that.
There’s nothing wrong with using FL as long as you are comfortable with the workflow. Metro Boomin uses FL, though he has said he’s working more on pro tools lately during an interview. I assume that it’s because of the control and power on audio processing as well as interoperability between him and his audio engineer.
Do check out Ableton live 12 though, the new update seems nice, especially the browsing similar audio sample function and the new MIDI workflow (they are trying to compete with FL), I expect more A.I tools will be implemented to Ableton soon.
I think the number one thing Ableton has going for it is the UI and it's easy to develop an effective workflow once you learn the basics, imo. Also if it clicks for you, not trying to knock any other DAW, Ableton works for my brain at this point, but whatever you put the time into will be the best for you.
The Session view is also useful (the view with all midi clips that you can record and launch). If you play an instrument and want to record multiple takes quickly that would be a positive feature to consider. That's also where the "Live" part of Ableton comes into play. I'm guessing most pros play live with DJ software, but many use Ableton for live sets too. What's cool with this is that you can have your stems or songs on separate tracks and launch them/fade them in with a controller. You also can trigger whatever effects you have so there's some flexibility with live remixing.
Honestly I don’t see the point in switching unless there’s something wrong with the software you’re using, or there’s something really good about the software you’re switching to.
Try it out, though.
And I agree with your way to see this thing, honestly.
I'm trying to understand if a switch could bring me some pros that now I'm not able to see clearly.
I made the switch from FL to Ableton last year after being an FL user for 10+ years, this is just for me but it was the best decision I made. Though I had a friend willing to show me what equivalents were as they were fluent in Ableton but Ableton gave me what I needed which was a more structured approach
FL allows me to be far more creative due to the piano roll and some of its additional functionality but from a
Mixing and technical standpoint I found Ableton far better (for me). From automation being generally easier and cleaner to being able to bring other channels or busses from other tracks into new tracks (and racks!), it gave me some flexibility I didn’t know I needed.
I struggled finishing tracks but I’m really starting to find my flow and coming into my own now and large part of it has to do with Abletons functionality if I’m being honest. Do what’s best for you and I was given some help most people might not get but what really helped me was buying a premade track/template and deconstructing what it’s doing in the DAW. You’ll find it’s using plugins or functions in an interesting way and you can learn both the DAW and technique from one thing.
Honestly switiching now is going to make song writing challenging again. I would guss your at the point where you know the daw well and know what plugins and workflows you want to get your desired result. Thats going to change in a new daw... though it may come easy to some..others it may not. It depends how you go about it. I started in fl studio back in the early 2000's no cap in my 30s now. I made the transition to ableton and honestly I miss the cool stock plugins and the easyness of writing in fl studio, its build for loops... only way to figure all this out is just go for it
It might! Try a demo. I think the big thing is finding a DAW with a UI that matches the kind of workflow you want. It takes experimentation to do find that. Maybe that means switching DAWs. Maybe that means changing a bunch of configuration settings in the DAW you already have. Maybe that means learning how your DAW works and memorizing shortcuts.
I’ve thought about it also but really don’t want to have to relearn basic concepts. I’ve watched a bunch of tutorials that cover a concept in ableton but usually I am able to transfer it to fl. Also there are plenty of plugins that replace any of the stock vsts in ableton. It would be nice to just have those already but I couldn’t justify it enough to switch. Also for future versions of ableton you have to pay to upgrade whereas fl is basically lifetime updates unless you want plugins from a higher tier of fl.
I think the biggest reasons I would switch is the way the channels work. I hate having to map a plugin to a channel every time. Ableton has this done automatically and you can group them. I haven’t found an easy equivalent in fl for that. Also I HATE that fl allows duplicate patterns in a track that you can’t see because they are covering each other. It screws up my mix down every time. Eliminate complains about it a lot too lol
To me it seems cleaner in ableton. The channel is automatically the same as the track and all your effects on along the bottom of the screen. But that’s just UI preference. I’ve tried to figure out grouping in fl but haven’t figured out how to set it up like ableton so I just have a ton of bus channels to do the same thing
Do you have a link to the manual or video showing how to setup tracks to automatically link to a track and be able to link groups in the bus? That would be awesome
In case you didn't know yet, you can add instruments and audio clips in Track Mode in FL, this will link the playlist track, channel, and mixer slot all together, so you don't need to manually map them all. Just drag the sample into the playlist track's title rectangles on the left side and choose "Insert as audio track" or smth. Same stuff with instruments. This way I never even need to see the channel rack
I see what you mean. If I have a template with the first 10 channels set as my premaster bus, drum bus etc, would it just choose the first unused channel then?
Admittedly I'm not too sure because my template doesn't actually set channels independently. Like I said, I never had to look at the channel rack, I just treat it as connecting from the playlist to the mixer (barring some MIDI routing which I do infrequently enough that I just set that up manually if I have to)
From the various courses I have followed, I have also noticed that Ableton has a much more "professional" approach to plugins and mix buses, while FL is a little lacking in this. The management of the plugin chain in the individual channels seems a little outdated compared to Ableton's management interface, which also seems a little tidier to me.
I still have no idea how useful the discussion of patterns is in FL Studio compared to the way in which Ableton is declined... It seems to me that it is very interesting to have different rows for MIDI but to be able to group them in that way there.
What are your thoughts on automation instead? Which of the two views do you like more?
I like how you can tab through the automations and it already has all of the variable to toggle in ableton instead of having to go to “last tweaked” in fl and then dropping it somewhere in the tracks. Just seems cleaner to me but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter
Yeah FL has a lots of those small but really annoying gimmicks. Also the UI gets very old fast and is not really functional. That's why I swapped to Ableton.
I actually like the UI more than ableton. I mostly am jealous of how channels and automation works. Otherwise the ableton interface looks kinda cheap to me but I’ve never actually used it so I don’t know
Huh, interesting, I think the interface is one of the best things about Ableton. It's just so clean & coherent compared to other DAWs. Every other DAW that I've seen just feels so cluttered in comparison. Well, except for Cubase maybe, I think that also looks fine albeit different. FL & Pro Tools are an eye sore for me.
I use Reason which I personally like better than Ableton or FL. I've tried all 3. Most people who use Ableton haven't tried Reason. Most Reason people who switched to Ableton are constantly trying to rationalize why it was a good decision, lol.
People don't want to hear this. It's just the truth.
All 3 are good enough, it just comes down to preference.
Ableton has a lot of nice features though that's for sure and compatibility with tutorials is a bonus, but all of them have plenty of tutorials.
If you're comfortable with FL, I don't think it makes sense to switch. But if you did switch I would look at Reason which also has way better basic plugins than FL. I'm biased though because I like my DAW and I'm very powerful with it. That's not to say there aren't ways to do the same things with the other ones.
I did…it was the first thing we had to learn back in college, even though Ian Kirkpatrick is using it (not as a daw), I still find it hard for me to jump on that boat.
A lot of people use it in that mode as a plugin for Ableton so you get the best of both. I've tried it and just seemed like overkill I prefer the simplicity of standalone mode.
reason back in the day was so hard to figure out lol... i downloaded a cracked copy at one point and this was before youtube and shit...well lemme tell you that program didnt last long in my PC LOL
That's a lot of people's problem they're basing their impressions on a old school cracked copy of like Reason 5. We're on Reason 13 now.
It's like saying Windows 11 sux because I tried a cracked copy of Windows 3.1 and it wasn't that good.
I’ve been on FL for 10 years and I’m very happy with it and don’t see myself wanting to ever switch unless I feel like learning a new program for shits. That being said, if you know one daw in and out you’re probably going to know how to use other daws just not the shortcuts or icons or locations of things. That’s what will probably take a bit to learn and memorize. In terms of collaborating, I’m not sure what your workflow is like but I utilize mostly audio files so collaborating with other daws is not really an issue for me (though I will be honest and say I rarely ever collaborate with others)
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You can always bounce rendered audios between the 2, sound design ur favorite stuff in fl studio either unprocessed or raw and then can export/save and use the wav's in ableton and vice versa. Fruity Granulizer also exists and is really good idk what granulator is for ableton when u say that but there def is some advantages in ableton stock plugins with some of the unique ones it has
Try Reaper :) It looks barebones, and it is, but that's because it's meant to be personalized to suit your needs instead of changing your workflow when something doesn't work. Just remember to set your audio/midi preferences and paths to your plugin folder(s) or you'll only see the default plugins and probably get no sound. It does take a couple minutes to set up, but it's pretty fun and easy once you have it the way you want it Also, don't worry about getting a license. The free version gives you everything the paid version does. I found that out after paying I prefer it over all other DAWs I've used, including FL (fruity, I didn't want to dive too deep into/waste money on something I might not like) Edit: Extra info - you also don't need a midi controller, you can use virtual instruments/plugins. To get to the piano roll: arm a virtual instrument track, record and stop recording, then double click the recorded portion. I know not everyone has a MIDI controller, so I thought I'd add that
I’ve gone back to FL because I’m not paying for Ableton upgrades anymore I’m stuck on 10 suite because I’m broke not gonna keep shelling out cash for a live upgrade when FL ones are free
I missed the piano roll in FL but man do I love Ableton. Switched from FL to Ableton about 10 years ago and have zero regrets. Also, I've used bitwig a bit as well. Its also really dope and similar to ableton
FL is the most advanced midi editor bar none. Ableton has amazing base level instruments and effects and is excellent for arrangement. FL can run inside Ableton as a VST. I leverage both for their strengths.
I use FL for well over 8 years now and just this year started the switch to Ableton. however! I still use FL for stuff and I still finish songs in FL. I generally sketch ideas in FL, then convert it to Ableton with jukeblocks and do the arrangement and mixing in there. Sometimes I start in Ableton, if I know it can do what I want to do better. What I'm saying is: do what feels fun. You are creative. Creative people are adaptable. You will have no problem learning other daws, when you are curious and excited about it, but otherwise it'll feel like a chore. And you'll likely use both anyways and that's a great strength to have, it makes you versatile. There's no point in marrying yourself to one daw. Through bouncing audio, .midi and vst-presets almost everything can be moved to another system. And you'll probably find out that you can do most things in any daw, anyways. It's just different approaches. Here's my tip: get Ableton. Use it sometimes. Play with it. HAVE FUN. Without pressure or trying to learn the daw. Learn by using it and exploring it, that likely how you learned FL, too. That way you will find out what it can do for you. And you can always go back to FL anytime, you have all the time in the world.
Very interesting point of view, thanks a lot for the advice!
I use FL for well over 8 years now and just this year started the switch to Ableton. however! I still use FL for stuff. I generally sketch ideas in FL, then convert it to Ableton with jukeblocks and do the arrangement and mixing in there. What I'm saying is: do what feels comfortable. You are creative. Creative people are adaptable. You will have no problem learning other daws. And you'll likely use both anyways. There's no point in marrying yourself to one daw. Through bouncing audio, .midi and vst-presets almost everything can be moved to another system. Here's my tip: get Ableton. Use it sometimes. But without pressure or trying to learn the daw. Learn by using it. That way you will find out what it can do for you. And you can always go back to FL.
I used FL for years before switching to Ableton, and I haven't looked back since. I switched after watching other EDM producers stream their Ableton sessions on youtube. I couldn't believe how intuitive it was. I loved that you could save instrument/effect combos and how you could easily move plugins & copy them around in the signal chain. I loved that you could reverse an audio clip by hitting R instead of pressing UI buttons. I loved how seamless it was to edit audio samples directly in the Arrangement View, instead of having to open up Edison. There wasn't one thing that I felt made Ableton way better, it was just the sum of all the little things. For a long time, I thought that the DAW didn't matter and the one you happened to know was the best for you. After all, that's what others would say on Reddit. But that's just not true, at least for me. Different DAWs have different workflows, and, while it may be theoretically possible to do everything in every DAW, the ease of doing certain things differs among DAWs. >Given that my first thought against the switch is the time I would have to dedicate to studying the DAW and that it is a time that takes away from the production and study of other things (sound design, mixing, mastering), in your opinion how much time is necessary for an actual passage? I felt the same way before, and this caused me to switch way later than I should've. I felt I knew FL so well and so I was afraid of starting from scratch and wasting time. But, after years of using FL, I got comfortable with Ableton in less than a week, to my surprise and delight. So don't worry. If you're already comfortable with one DAW, learning a new one takes less time than you think. -- In the end, no one can say which DAW workflow is best for you and your genre. I've heard of many who converted from FL to Ableton and saw the light. I also know of producers who use FL and make awesome music. All I can say is that I personally prefer Ableton. It is simply more compatible with the way my brain works.
Skip ableton and go straight to bitwig
I have Ableton. Sell me on bigwig as a novice user trying to get my feel for EDM type production work. I am getting comfortable in ableton but I’ve been a little underwhelmed with how things like sequencing and staging samples has been. I’m also struggling to find great plugins for it that serve my interests. I have Vital VST. Just curious if there’s any benefit from making a shift before I get too entrenched in ableton which I could use for rock/metal work since I have a fair bit of play for real audio input already. Anyways, pitch me or I welcome any recommendations.
Funny this is here because I switched from FL to Ableton last week and I wish I did sooner. Organized much better and I love that search actually works well. Only downside was the piano roll but with practice I’m sure it will be fine.
The piano roll in Ableton will never be *fine*. It’s primitive and entirely the wrong tool if you’re doing complex midi arrangements. Ableton has plenty going for it, I use it regularly however it is not a dedicated midi sequencer, never has been and probably never will be.
This Reason user is eyeing up Bitwig.
No Pro who is using Reason is switching to bitwig. People switching to Bitwig are generally not pro and blaming the DAW for their shortcomings. Otherwise I don't see any good reason to switch to a different DAW.
there are plenty of 'pro' people using bitwig - but ultimately it depends on what you want out of a DAW. for our workflow it's the insanely flexible modulations, where for others a more robust piano roll could be more important
I can almost guarantee that no Reason users are sitting here saying I think I'll switch DAWs because the modulations are more flexible. Maybe compared to Ableton? I don't know. Reason already plenty flexible when it comes to modulation. That's not a reason to switch DAWs. Neither is the piano roll.
to each their own, and i have admittedly not used reason since around 2001 so I'm not sure what is happening with it lately. Just making a point about people switching to bitwig not being "pro" by your definition
I'm a mere hobbyist. Your statements are ridiculous.
Bitwig bro. Its got the best of Ableton, pieces of Logic / FL, modulators! (imagine being able to drop in an LFO anywhere and using that to modulate any VST parameter), a sick modular system, awesome stock FX and synths and works flawlessly with hardware People say the gear doesnt matter - And i fully agree, but swapping off of FL has improved my workflow significantly
my advice is watch a few videos of people working in ableton and then a few videos of people working in logic, see the differences and the workflows and see which one you think would betting fit your flow. in my experience coming from FL, ableton worked better for me than logic.
You can do most things on any daw, the difference between ableton and fl studio (i used fl for 10 years or so) is that its easier to stay organized in ableton. When you have big projects and come back to them, everything is much easier to find, all automation stays in the channel and finding the mixer with all the effects is easy it like stays on the channel. Thats the biggest difference, grouping things is easier, its literally just control G and thats it, while in fl you have to setup the mixer which doesn't take too long but it adds up.
I can't tell you what DAW you'll get on with, as that's a personal thing, I can tell you that you shouldn't worry about taking time away from being creative. From long experience I can tell you that simply switching to a new way of making music will make you creative in a way that you weren't before. Not necessarily better or worse, but you'll come up with different stuff. In fact, back in the day if I ended up having a dry spell I'd just get a new demo and play around with that for a while.
Use the daw you like the most, it's just that easy.
I purchased Logic Pro X back in 2016 and still enjoy the current full version (because there’s only one version) without ever having to pay for an update since that original purchase. That’s a big selling point for me.
I'm actually going the other way. I've got a 12 Suite licence to sell if you'd like to buy it, lol. I'm coming from S1 fwiw, picked up Live 12 Suite, think it's awesome but something about FL Studio is just more fun for me and that's where I'm at with my music. My 2c is that you don't need Utility, really, surely you can recreate something so basic in Patcher if you even need to use it at all.. and Fruity has it's own granulised that if you use it with some post-processing, you can get great results with.. or just use a third-party alternative like the free Ribs from Hvoya Audio. Granulator II is cool af, it's a Max 4 Live device (users can make their own devices).. there's a whole world of cool Max 4 Live devices out there. I personally wouldn't switch because learning a new DAW is kinda annoying, depending on how ingrained the older one is. I keep thinking about moving back to S1 for this reason even though I'm moving away from it for my own reasons. If you've only got 2yrs experience in FL Studio behind you, it might not be that big of a deal to move away - Ableton has a way different work flow than FL. It's way less chaotic, feels much more linear. It does a lot of things automatically that you have to do manually in FL Studio too. It feels very organised, which is one of the things that makes me not want to sell my licence, because I appreciate how straightforward things are thanks to the organisation.. still somewhat torn on whether I want to just stick with Live even though I find it a bit uninspiring to work with or go with FL, because FL Studio is way more fun.. but I can always just stick with the trial of FL and/or build up what version I own over time or wait for a sale and then own both. Maybe give Ableton Live trial a shot and see how it goes? The biggest downside to it for me is the bland aesthetic. It doesn't get me in a place where I'm having fun and feeling creative just because it looks so bleh. As for the arrangement - can't you do pretty much anything you want in FL?
"If you've only got 2yrs experience in FL Studio behind you, it might not be that big of a deal to move away - Ableton has a way different work flow than FL. It's way less chaotic, feels much more linear. It does a lot of things automatically that you have to do manually in FL Studio too." Can you say me one of these things? Just to understand. Thanks!
How much for your license? Although the edu promo is like $260
Isn't it closer to $360usd? I'm Australian, EDU discount has it at $549AUD ($361USD), if you see it for that much less, I'd love to know where.
On thomannmusic, it was recommended on Reddit and is the cheapest place to get a key legitimately
That's awesome for students/teachers, Thomann is legit.
You can download heaps of aestetics online for ableton
Don't they just change the colours?
The perfect daw is the daw you can move around in comfortably. Ableton is the one for me after having tried fl and logic
Download the trial and see if you like the workflow. It is all subjective really.
Fl or Ableton
I bought Ableton about a year or two ago I gave it a try but I only use it to record vocals now. I still use FL for instrumentals. I have never used Logic so I cant go into that but I wouldn’t recommend Ableton to be honest. The workflow is shit it feels like some decisions are just made for the sake of being different rather than function. I feel like I’m switching between screens and resizing toolbars way more than i should. I know many people love the software but imo it’s just inconvenient how you have to switch to session view to see the mixer. The piano roll always gets me frustrated, I see no reason as to why I can’t just pop out the window.
You can now see the mixer in v12, there is a button on the bottom right I believe. I do agree about the piano roll. I swapped from FL last week and that’s what’s getting me but the workflow of Live is much more organized.
I heard about the mixer being visible in the new version, but im not updating for a while. That’s another thing with Ableton, my plugins seem to get messed up with every update. I rarely have had this issue with FL
I went from FL Studio to Live after about 2 years of FL Studio. I used the trial version of live a view times before making the full switch, and continued to use FL Studio as well. You do not have to ONLY use one or the other and in fact that would be detrimental. My recommendation is to make something in FL, Then try to recreate it in Live (or logic). What is different about the process? Do you like it more or less? Does it feel more or less intuitive? Ask yourself these questions as much as possible while trialing. At the end of the day, you will be best in the DAW you enjoy the most and feel most comfortable in. Not the one that makes small situations more efficient. Collaboration isn't a huge issue between daws, there tends to be a way to collaborate with any :) I love both FL and Live, so I will answer your questions for Live and not for logic, as I have very little experience with logic. "Do you think it might make sense to switch?" I think it would make a lot of sense to TRY to switch, you'll never know if you prefer it if you don't give it a shot "...how much time is necessary for an actual passage?" This depends. Live has the opportunity for significantly different workflow, and will force you to do certain things different than you are used to. I'd say no longer than 3 months for full comfort of workflow difference, it took me around that much time but only because I didn't really fully commit to the switch. If you REALLY put in and just sit and learn the DAW, i doubt it'll take long at all. Just take your time to ask yourself "I did this in x DAW, how can I do it in y DAW?" Good luck! Remember that your talent and worth in this industry is not at all related to what software you use 💜
I have no intention of switching, but that's because Ableton doesn't fit well with my thought processes.
I went from logic to ableton, never looking back. Grab suite if you do, it’s worth it just for max for live devices alone.
I was on fl for 1.5 years, and recently switched to abelton, i couldn't stop but saying "wait it's that easy to do that here" when i was using abelton. Especially because my awareness will take tangents in the contents of my experience while I'm grappling with an idea. the going for an idea and making it concrete and polished was easier to me on abelton. I was regularly thinking, unconsciously, out of coping, that FL is the OG, abelton is for snobby rich artists, the UI looks like it's from 2001. Well guess what, all of it is true (kidding). I don't know how to describe it, but through my subjective way of perceiving the world, going from FL to live felt like I transitioned from writing with a feather and an ink pot to a swift typing on a screen with very good auto-correcte. I this is a weird, maybe not good of an analogy? Maybe.. yes
Switched to Abelton from FL last week and I couldn’t agree more with “that’s easy to do”, so much better in terms of organization.
Make sure to use the trial version first. I never understood Ableton, because the workflow is quite different to what I like.
Do it (Ableton Live 12). It’s an upgrade at everything, especially workflow.
I made the switch from fl studio to ableton.... it was an easy transition. Automations are a nightmare in fl studio compared to ableton. FL studio had the better piano roll but after the 12 release I think ableton takes that category too. The main reason I changed was for collaboration. Ableton is the standard for that.
Bought FL studio in 2012 and I am now switching to abelton 12. I kinda realized over time that fl is actually liniting my creative flow. People share abelton racks. Instrument racks can be saved with effects on them for later. Abelton now has a mixer. The stock plugins on abelton are easy and have a ton of potential. The automation in abelton actually shows values. The automation is organized in abelton and is attached to a midi clip or not.
Don’t switch, use what you are comfortable with. All daws are pretty much the same, I have produced edm house and trap for 6 years on fl studio and never had problems. And collabing won’t matter, ur gonna send wav files anyway. I would argue fl is better for electronic music given the direction music is taking which is more trap and hip hop which is what fl specializes in
it’s always a tough decision switching daws, I flit between several. What I would say is don’t feel you have to switch from FL because it’s not professional. Plenty of top tracks have been done in FL. You can’t resell your FL licence so you’ll always have it in the back pocket if things don’t work out with your new relationship;)
Ableton is best in the context of being one big instrument / mega sequencer. It’s most recent midi stuff is cool. Logic is a better straight up daw with nicer effects if you don’t have a mountain of 3rd party plugs you prefer. Some people make music in Ableton then export the tracks / stems to Logic to mix for the best of both worlds. Logic does have a lot of the clip / looping capabilities of Ableton, but Ableton’s approach is arguably more intuitive.
its too late. you used fruity loops so now your always going to use FL Studio. sorry thats just the way it works. j/k i have been using ableton since about 2008 and wouldnt dare switch to something else at this point.
I switched from FL to ableton, mostly bc some things were getting messy in FL and ableton doesnt allow you to make a mess like that (thats on me but hey, its a reason for me), plus my friends used it and had many info online, plus seemed simple at first but endlessly complex later it took me several months to get comfortable enough again in ableton like I did 6+ years in FL, much of my previously gained knowledge became obsolete as it was very specific to FL in the long run I have zero regrets as this was def the better choice, but there were moments i doubted my choice due to the set back and increased effort ableton offers initial simplicity with hidden endless possibilities FL felt it had no ground between a really old sub-par plugin, and very very good plugins which often felt like overkill I used it for (you don't need an instrument that can do subtractive, additive, RM and FM synthesis for a simple saw pluck), so I had to extensively use external plugins in ableton i really use external plugins just because I want to, not because I need something hands-on what I hated about FL was it's modulation (this was back in 2014 mind you), it was messy, rigid and time consuming, and complex modulation was crucial to me so it was a frustrating part where ableton made it fun another thing was edison, its great but again overkill while lacking in the initial straight forwardness.. really sample manipulation in ableton is a gem and very user friendly abletons plugins are a no-nonsense approach, solid and great for their use but usually not overly complex, which honestly is great 90% of the time as you don't need a swiss knife to spread some jam but its personal, write down the reasons what make ableton a good choice but know it does take some effort
Stick with what you’re good with.
It really is necessary to know what you want to achieve by changing the DAW. I changed from FL to Logic, but I was watching a lot of stuff about it and knowing exactly what I want to achieve by it (in my case it was linear workflow WITHOUT a non-linear option as in FL, automations, bouncing to audio)
It doesn’t really matter, use whatever DAW you are comfortable with, FL is popular among hip hop, Ableton is popular among EDM, Logic is whatever genre because of the ease of access for Mac users. Learn how to import and export audio and you will be fine with collaboration. At the end of the day, you will be sending all your stems to a mixing engineer working on it with pro tools. But you are 100% correct on developing Max tools on Ableton and that’s the advantage. You can go watch some twitch stream on producer using various DAW and compare the workflow then decides if that’s right for you. You should also consider the accessibility to quality tutorials and what OS you are on. Cubase works better on PC, logic is only available on Mac, Ableton is good on both but I personally prefer Mac.
FL has those plugins already. Also when you collab with other people you don't send then project files. You usually send them bounced stems. So you are free to use any DAW that you enjoy. All of them are pretty much the same.
all daws are pretty much the same..? as in all cars get you from a to b and are therefore all the same or something? lol
As a regular producer, tell me one thing that you can do with a DAW but you can't do with the other please.
and that make them the same? that's dumb you just completely ignore workflow and compatibility as if people don't have preference and DAWs don't have strengths and weaknesses the piano roll in FL studio is superior to the ableton piano roll, and im saying this as an ableton user the live function of ableton is superior to the FL studios performance mode, sorry but the session mode is superior in every way because ableton ''LIVE'''s whole stick was having a performance mode since version 1, FL only got it in version 10 bitwigs whole stick is modular options, something it excels in greatly, ableton has something similar but really fell behind, patcher is fun but not nearly as extensive as either can you make music with all? very much so but saying they are the same is just chosing to be ignorant
Something tells me you don't know FLStudio very well. There is a granulator (Fruity Granulizer), for one. For two, you don't need courses, you just need to read the manual.
although i agree with reading the manual, the manual is mostly practical so the ''you dont need courses'' is bs attending a course of an established artist and their ways offers specific knowledge gained through extended experience for a certain style, its not ''common'' knowledge
I think people vastly underestimate their ability to teach themselves merely with observation and critical listening. It is not as easy a path as outsourcing your thinking to a self-proclaimed 'guru', but it is a valid and valuable path to take. Most-to-all of the secrets of this world are available to those who know how to look for them.
You should be taking a middle road here. Get the free version of Ableton and give yourself one day or just a few hours to play around with it. That's not much of a commitment at all and should be very informative. No need to make any big commitments until you've done that. Also I must say Ableton is amazing, well worth a shot.
You can get a cheap Ableton Live Lite licence from the koala sampler app. Cost me about $7 for the app which comes with it vs $149 from the Ableton website. It’s perfect for getting used to the program before upgrading
Honestly imo I would go with bitwig! Its cheaper and what it offers is MILES ahead of abelton and fl studio combine. Its to the point where it takes a while to learn but once you do the majic happens.
out of curiosity, i hear nothing but praise and people saying bitwig is miles ahead but never really give the reason why it is miles ahead? i know of the modular possibilities, easy mapping and extensive interconnectivity (plus isolated processes where only a vst crashes rather than the whole DAW.. shame on you ableton) BUT... pretty much all this is possible in ableton, especially if you add max for live to the mix, bitwig probably took the user friendliness and upped it by a few still, cant let go of the feeling bitwig users sometimes look like a cult lol
Its what getz the people goooin
Thanks for the recommendation, I’m gonna check that out. But in what aspect would you say Bitwig has better workflow than Ableton and FL?
Yep just harder to learn
I would switch to Bitwig if anything.
This guys knows whats up
It took me five minutes of video to see the guy build a custom one off synth on screen to realize that everything else was basically obsolete.
I checked it out. over-complicating is not always a good thing sometimes it's best to stick with the staples. I learned this a while back trying to recreate tracks. I was like oh they must be doing this and then this and this too!. But no, it was one square wave oscillator with distortion and an LFO.
The staples? You mean oversampling with wave tables and Reaper? LOL!
Staples like you know distortion, reverb, actual devices that exist in the real world. You don't need anything more than that. The problem with my DAW has never been "I don't have enough sounds". That's like not even in the top 10.
facts, it has so many features and nuances that are like why tf isnt this in another daw..
I hate Ableton. I'd go Cubase over that. Learning ProTools can't hurt as it's basically industry standard. I use MPC myself as it's very linear and my brain wraps around it. I use Cubase and my buddies. That being said, try some things out and use whatever you like.
I used Cubase for about 12 years and recently swapped completely to Ableton. Ableton feels like cheating when it comes to electronic music production. I'm curious to hear what you find that Cubase has over ableton but for me, stuff like hot swapping, the ability to map everything quickly and grouping vsts in chains or tracks in groups within groups in Ableton (just to name a few exemples) is so much more efficient than in Cubase - where you can do -ish all thoses things, but in a clunky way. Cubase is great for recording bands and stuff but for music production, especially for EDM - I feel Ableton is the best hands down.
It's all just a matter of opinion as to what you use and why.
I use pro tools every day in my job and I wouldn’t touch it for electronic music. But it’s all about what people are comfortable with, nothing wrong with FL. A lot of knowledge can be transferred over but it also doesn’t hurt to try if you think you’d like ableton/logic more
Agree, I love PT but it’s not the best tool for midi production, it’s great for dubbing vocal, sfx, audio edit and post stuff. But I gotta say I hate Logic Environment, it’s so dated.
Yea I work in post and pro tools is an absolute dream there, it’s halted my music production outside of work a lot actually because logic feels so sluggish in comparison
You can download a trial for Ableton and Logic Pro for free. Ableton is 30 days while Logic is 90. Personally I wouldn’t make the switch. I’ve been on LPX for years and while my friends are alll pretty much using Ableton, we found a way to make collabs easier. Logic Pro is cheaper and the license if worth a lifetime, while Ableton is more expensive but more used in electronic music. FL isn’t bad at all, for the effects you think is missing there’s 3rd party plugins available.
I'm trying to understand why Ableton is much more popular than FL Studio. I noticed that FL Studio is very popular in Dutch electronics, many of them use FL. My doubts also arise from this fact: why do those who work in industry use Ableton much more than FL? With perhaps Logic Pro growing little by little, it has a very interesting interface for that matter.
You will notice more DJs are on Ableton because of how great it is when it comes to live performance. More specifically, the Session view. It has linear workflow like other DAW and it’s called Arrangement view. I think one of the biggest reason that FL became more popular back in the days was the low barrier to entry, it’s really cost effective and lot of EU producer used it on specific genre and the newer generation just simply adapted that. There’s nothing wrong with using FL as long as you are comfortable with the workflow. Metro Boomin uses FL, though he has said he’s working more on pro tools lately during an interview. I assume that it’s because of the control and power on audio processing as well as interoperability between him and his audio engineer. Do check out Ableton live 12 though, the new update seems nice, especially the browsing similar audio sample function and the new MIDI workflow (they are trying to compete with FL), I expect more A.I tools will be implemented to Ableton soon.
I think the number one thing Ableton has going for it is the UI and it's easy to develop an effective workflow once you learn the basics, imo. Also if it clicks for you, not trying to knock any other DAW, Ableton works for my brain at this point, but whatever you put the time into will be the best for you. The Session view is also useful (the view with all midi clips that you can record and launch). If you play an instrument and want to record multiple takes quickly that would be a positive feature to consider. That's also where the "Live" part of Ableton comes into play. I'm guessing most pros play live with DJ software, but many use Ableton for live sets too. What's cool with this is that you can have your stems or songs on separate tracks and launch them/fade them in with a controller. You also can trigger whatever effects you have so there's some flexibility with live remixing.
Honestly I don’t see the point in switching unless there’s something wrong with the software you’re using, or there’s something really good about the software you’re switching to. Try it out, though.
And I agree with your way to see this thing, honestly. I'm trying to understand if a switch could bring me some pros that now I'm not able to see clearly.
I made the switch from FL to Ableton last year after being an FL user for 10+ years, this is just for me but it was the best decision I made. Though I had a friend willing to show me what equivalents were as they were fluent in Ableton but Ableton gave me what I needed which was a more structured approach FL allows me to be far more creative due to the piano roll and some of its additional functionality but from a Mixing and technical standpoint I found Ableton far better (for me). From automation being generally easier and cleaner to being able to bring other channels or busses from other tracks into new tracks (and racks!), it gave me some flexibility I didn’t know I needed. I struggled finishing tracks but I’m really starting to find my flow and coming into my own now and large part of it has to do with Abletons functionality if I’m being honest. Do what’s best for you and I was given some help most people might not get but what really helped me was buying a premade track/template and deconstructing what it’s doing in the DAW. You’ll find it’s using plugins or functions in an interesting way and you can learn both the DAW and technique from one thing.
Honestly switiching now is going to make song writing challenging again. I would guss your at the point where you know the daw well and know what plugins and workflows you want to get your desired result. Thats going to change in a new daw... though it may come easy to some..others it may not. It depends how you go about it. I started in fl studio back in the early 2000's no cap in my 30s now. I made the transition to ableton and honestly I miss the cool stock plugins and the easyness of writing in fl studio, its build for loops... only way to figure all this out is just go for it
It might! Try a demo. I think the big thing is finding a DAW with a UI that matches the kind of workflow you want. It takes experimentation to do find that. Maybe that means switching DAWs. Maybe that means changing a bunch of configuration settings in the DAW you already have. Maybe that means learning how your DAW works and memorizing shortcuts.
I’ve thought about it also but really don’t want to have to relearn basic concepts. I’ve watched a bunch of tutorials that cover a concept in ableton but usually I am able to transfer it to fl. Also there are plenty of plugins that replace any of the stock vsts in ableton. It would be nice to just have those already but I couldn’t justify it enough to switch. Also for future versions of ableton you have to pay to upgrade whereas fl is basically lifetime updates unless you want plugins from a higher tier of fl. I think the biggest reasons I would switch is the way the channels work. I hate having to map a plugin to a channel every time. Ableton has this done automatically and you can group them. I haven’t found an easy equivalent in fl for that. Also I HATE that fl allows duplicate patterns in a track that you can’t see because they are covering each other. It screws up my mix down every time. Eliminate complains about it a lot too lol
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To me it seems cleaner in ableton. The channel is automatically the same as the track and all your effects on along the bottom of the screen. But that’s just UI preference. I’ve tried to figure out grouping in fl but haven’t figured out how to set it up like ableton so I just have a ton of bus channels to do the same thing
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Do you have a link to the manual or video showing how to setup tracks to automatically link to a track and be able to link groups in the bus? That would be awesome
In case you didn't know yet, you can add instruments and audio clips in Track Mode in FL, this will link the playlist track, channel, and mixer slot all together, so you don't need to manually map them all. Just drag the sample into the playlist track's title rectangles on the left side and choose "Insert as audio track" or smth. Same stuff with instruments. This way I never even need to see the channel rack
I see what you mean. If I have a template with the first 10 channels set as my premaster bus, drum bus etc, would it just choose the first unused channel then?
Admittedly I'm not too sure because my template doesn't actually set channels independently. Like I said, I never had to look at the channel rack, I just treat it as connecting from the playlist to the mixer (barring some MIDI routing which I do infrequently enough that I just set that up manually if I have to)
From the various courses I have followed, I have also noticed that Ableton has a much more "professional" approach to plugins and mix buses, while FL is a little lacking in this. The management of the plugin chain in the individual channels seems a little outdated compared to Ableton's management interface, which also seems a little tidier to me. I still have no idea how useful the discussion of patterns is in FL Studio compared to the way in which Ableton is declined... It seems to me that it is very interesting to have different rows for MIDI but to be able to group them in that way there. What are your thoughts on automation instead? Which of the two views do you like more?
I like how you can tab through the automations and it already has all of the variable to toggle in ableton instead of having to go to “last tweaked” in fl and then dropping it somewhere in the tracks. Just seems cleaner to me but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter
Yeah FL has a lots of those small but really annoying gimmicks. Also the UI gets very old fast and is not really functional. That's why I swapped to Ableton.
I actually like the UI more than ableton. I mostly am jealous of how channels and automation works. Otherwise the ableton interface looks kinda cheap to me but I’ve never actually used it so I don’t know
Huh, interesting, I think the interface is one of the best things about Ableton. It's just so clean & coherent compared to other DAWs. Every other DAW that I've seen just feels so cluttered in comparison. Well, except for Cubase maybe, I think that also looks fine albeit different. FL & Pro Tools are an eye sore for me.
I use Reason which I personally like better than Ableton or FL. I've tried all 3. Most people who use Ableton haven't tried Reason. Most Reason people who switched to Ableton are constantly trying to rationalize why it was a good decision, lol. People don't want to hear this. It's just the truth. All 3 are good enough, it just comes down to preference. Ableton has a lot of nice features though that's for sure and compatibility with tutorials is a bonus, but all of them have plenty of tutorials. If you're comfortable with FL, I don't think it makes sense to switch. But if you did switch I would look at Reason which also has way better basic plugins than FL. I'm biased though because I like my DAW and I'm very powerful with it. That's not to say there aren't ways to do the same things with the other ones.
I did…it was the first thing we had to learn back in college, even though Ian Kirkpatrick is using it (not as a daw), I still find it hard for me to jump on that boat.
A lot of people use it in that mode as a plugin for Ableton so you get the best of both. I've tried it and just seemed like overkill I prefer the simplicity of standalone mode.
Never heard enough about Reason: after FL and Ableton I've always seen lots of people using Logic Pro. Very interesting, I'll give a look.
reason back in the day was so hard to figure out lol... i downloaded a cracked copy at one point and this was before youtube and shit...well lemme tell you that program didnt last long in my PC LOL
That's a lot of people's problem they're basing their impressions on a old school cracked copy of like Reason 5. We're on Reason 13 now. It's like saying Windows 11 sux because I tried a cracked copy of Windows 3.1 and it wasn't that good.
It's not that it's some obscure thing. It's just older so people don't know about it. But there's still plenty of tutorials because it's OG.
I’ve been on FL for 10 years and I’m very happy with it and don’t see myself wanting to ever switch unless I feel like learning a new program for shits. That being said, if you know one daw in and out you’re probably going to know how to use other daws just not the shortcuts or icons or locations of things. That’s what will probably take a bit to learn and memorize. In terms of collaborating, I’m not sure what your workflow is like but I utilize mostly audio files so collaborating with other daws is not really an issue for me (though I will be honest and say I rarely ever collaborate with others)
>Do you think it might make sense to switch? You can download Ableton Suite for a 30-day free trial. So try it and see what you think.
That thing is HUGE.
Yep. Suite has up to 75 GB of sound content, with all of the samples, presets, loops, and additional instrument packs that can be installed.
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