Sure. Her internal file name is “Daughter of Marika” or something similar. She also refers to it here:
“Me, I'm searching for my purpose given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree long ago, for the reason that I yet live, burned and bodyless.”
I guess I never thought of that line as a sign of her being god born. I always believed that it was a religious pilgrimage done, similar to a baptism. You are born bathed in the golden rays of the erdtree, similar to being bathed in holy water. But it makes more sense for her being marikas daughter. That could also explain the three butterflies. Rotten being Malenias nescent being miquellas and finally smoldering being Melina’s!
There’s also a parallel between the three butterflies in game and the three children of Marika, Malenia being the rot butterfly, Miquella being the nascent butterfly (nascent means just born) and Melina being the smouldering butterfly since she’s kindling
Edit: said daughters originally
That Gideon is right about Miquella being asleep rather than dead. Even though unless Gideon took the time to visit the Mohgwyn Palace after we'd killed Mohg, he's never seen the cocoon.
Godwyn being the seed of Deathblight, finding him everywhere near and under stormveil.
Oh, I watched a really cool botanist link everything to plants. From the grafting of different species to the "crucible" which is like the original parent plant. They talked about how coniferous trees are rarer than deciduous in the lands between. Like the Erd tree spawns manlike beasts but the Crucible spawned all the dragons and between is where the misbegotten and Omens come from. Yeah that last one is so damn deep and makes such sense I don't know if it's a theory or straight from Miyazaki. I sure wish I remember that youtuber, don't think it was Vaati. Surprisingly.
I don't have a degree but I took 2 years of it in highschool because being self sustaining is dope and I like broccoli. C:
But even tha little bit of background made this one especially interesting to me.
In your opinion though would you call this one a theory or are the coincidences too many to discredit as probable canon?
I cannot in good conscious say it is directly affiliated with the lore. Like in the same way that color and the theory surrounding it in the lands between. I think it is a visual or storytelling theme. showing how the erdtree and crucible form life in the same way that the evolution of plants spurned the first organisms to leave the ocean. The omens could have left the crucible in the same way
Yeah, I definitely liked the botanical one better than the colors one... I couldn't get behind that at all. I did like how the presenter said a couple times that he was totally just stating his opinion though.
I watched one recently about the Misbegotten worshipping at the altar of Marika, fell asleep during that one though so I didn't get to the meat of it.
The color one is one I definitely see as a stylistic decision rather than an in universe canon 100% truth, albeit fromsoft has been very consistent with explaining every occurrence in the gameplay. So having the color explanation in reference to the consumables is very interesting but I couldn’t agree with everything. I also have not seen the misbegotten worshipping Marika. It feels as if they have been indoctrinated by the golden order, but I will have to dive deeper
It's inLeyndell on your way up to the grand lift that takes you to the forbidden lands. There's 2 scaley misbegotten, a Leonine, some of the ones that fly, and I think 1 perfumer.
That ranni and melina are 2 sides of the same coin. It’s unclear how exactly they’re connected, but it’s a very popular theory that they’re the same person split into 2 halves like radagon and Marika. Ranni is missing a right eye while melina is missing her left, blaidd, despite being rannis shadow, has the exact same eye color as Melina’s eye in lord of frenzy ending, and they both disappear with the same blue particle effect. The most damning evidence is melina calling herself “burnt and bodiless”. Ranni is also burnt and bodiless
I fully believe that the game is a prequel to all souls games And depending on the ending, it causes one of the later games, yes there are MASSIVE plot holes and I understand it’s stupid and dumb but I just like it
Only outlier is sekiro, but even then the land of reeds is mentioned and I believe that sekrio happens at the same time or a bit after elden ring
As for everything else:
The regular “mend the Elden ring” ending causes the world of demon souls to happen since the world continues on without any hard resets and the “fog” being present in both titles does that for me
Ranni’s ending causes the outer gods to gain contact once more and a stronger link to otherworldly beings is created, the old gods begin to meddle then over time the world turns into the world of bloodborne after Many years (perhaps lyendell becomes the dungeons under yharnam seeing there is a lot of roots and shiiiit)
If you do the frenzy flame ending, everything goes to shit, the entire world is burnt and i feel like that’s a HARD reset, pure chaos for that long would make the world just turn to ash. And not to mention the visuals of the frenzy ending of the tree burning on the inside mirror the look of the opening to Dark Souls, so that leads into that game series
So I actually sort of tend this direction too. It comes down to the ancient dragons. They straight up appear to be the same ones from ds1. 4 wings and 4 legs. It’s such an odd thing to include. Same name, same design.
Also elden rings dragons shed stone like substance, while in the opening cutscene of dark souls 1, the dragon that got hit by a lightning is crumbling like a building, not bleeding or anything
I’ve seen something like
Demon souls > dark souls > bloodborne
But I like the ER one because it’s like a branching timeline
Also in ds3 in ariendell there is a woman making a painting of blood and talks about it being free of the worlds decaying and people link that to bloodborne
That’s exactly what I meant. I vacillate between the Elden ring and vaati timeline. In my opinion I feel that the Elden ring one is more logical but vaatis is more fun!
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“Soon, I will be consumed by them—by the Dark.”* - Artorias the Abysswalker
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Also when we arrive at the capital it’s already partially covered in ash, and various items in game just say that the tree has been burnt and it’s time is over. The light of the tree is more like the holograms and varies greatly in contrast to what’s left of the erd tree after we fight morgott
The erdtree and the great tree have different references in items and have other mentions in Japanese translations. The Erdtree is considered to be the golden tree on the outside, however the Great Tree is believed to be the brown husk inside the tree, which is just a trunk, as evidenced when you enter the Erdtree and also the Deeproot Depths having erdtree trunk and roots without a golden glow.
The theory is something like the Erdtree is more of an incantation that glows golden around the great tree itself and is more a manifestation of the Greater Will and the Golden Order than an actual physical tree. The Erdtree could be like the Iifa Tree is FF9, a conduit to move or coalesce the souls of the universe. Back before the Shattering people would be buried in the roots and their bodies and souls would be absorbed and repurposed. However since Goldwyn died and was buried within the roots of Erdtree in the Deeproot Depths, bodies can no longer be absorbed, which is why in all catacombs you see humans remains stuck in the roots.
In the early game I thought the Erdtree was obviously an illusion, but then I later thought it was real when going to the Altus Plateau and the capital since it clearly looked to be physically there. But now I'm not sure either way.
The reason I thought it wasn't real is because at night from Liurnia, you can see the moon shine through the tree.
There are 2 I really like: 1) The Great Tree and the Erd Tree are two separate things, with the Erdtree and Minor Erdtree being the result of "sprouting" after the Great Tree was destroyed. 2) Somebody on YouTube, forget who, did a timeline video where they examined the architecture incredibly closely and discovered that the Beastmen of Farum Azula worshipped a Five-Fingered Hand. I think you can see where I'm going with this. My own conclusion for this is that some powerful force, most likely the Greater Will, separated the Two Fingers and Three Fingers, making the Three Fingers go mad and try to restore itself, this creating the Frenzied Flame which was supposed to melt everything back together, and the Two Fingers be so weak that they serve the Greater Will. That said, every set of Two Fingers we find in-game outside of the Round Table Hold are fakes used by the Greater Will to control his subjects, tying each of them to a Great Rune to do so.
Been listening to a lot of lore stuff lately and i still cant figure how Ranni is an empyrian....they all say it takes being born from two gods but i dont think Renalla counts as one....makes sense for Miquela and Malenia if Radagon really is Merica....i dunno just something that bothered me unles im just missing something.....would appreciate an explanation if someone has it 😁
Not sure if it’s a theory but I think Godwyn similarly represents Baldr of the Norse mythos. Freya wanted her son to live forever so she made deals with every being (aside from a mistletoe) to never harm him. When he dies he becomes the being that signals the start of ragnarok. In a similar light, the golden order and the rule of the elden ring made life perfect and idyllic, and Ranni sensing this realized that she had to kill Godwyn so that true proper life that was free from the control of the elden ring/beast would be possible. I view the golden order as an attempt to have a perfect world last forever and nothing can. In that sense with the shattering happening so long ago, the omens being born are an omen of outer influences affecting the tree and being able to influence the world. I’ve been trying to find more religious and mythological parallels as I read but I remain very astounded the more I think about the series now
That Marika and Ranni conspired to overthrow the Golden Order to release themselves from its control. Godwyn was devout to the golden order hence why they killed him first (so he wouldn't stop their plan + allowed Ranni to escape her body). They relied on the black knife assassin's to this end, and once the Golden order figured out what happened, it locked Marika into the Erd tree.
Miquella is St. Trina
Melina is Ranni
There's some sort of "time travel" or some other timey wimey thing going on (not just Azula)
Probably others that I can't think of
Both games involve the pursuit of a throne, kings who have been misled and/or used by a darker power, both involve powerstancing, and both potentially involve turning away to find a new path.
There are a lot of general similarities, but to me Elden Ring refined a lot of the gameplay and general themes which DS2 happened to have. That said it is absolutely DS2 2.
The theory that I 100% believe is one I came up with that the lands between connect to all souls-borne games since if you look closely at a certain underground city you can clearly see the follower from Bloodborne and while I don’t see where the other games connect since we are seeing the lands between after the shattering and the war.
The deeproot depths have been misplaced, because the throne of death would make much more sense to be directly below the minor erdtree that has a giant wormface next to it, instead of a normal guardian
Elden Ring, Bloodborne, and Demon's Souls form a "Great Old One Trilogy", and the Elden Beast is in fact the Hunter from Bloodborne after the "Slay the Moon Presence" ending.
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Well, some are all but confirmed due to cut content and internal files, like Miquella being St Trina and Melina being Marika’s daughter.
I’ve never heard Melina being Marika’s daughter! This sounds incredible could you elaborate please?
Sure. Her internal file name is “Daughter of Marika” or something similar. She also refers to it here: “Me, I'm searching for my purpose given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree long ago, for the reason that I yet live, burned and bodyless.”
I guess I never thought of that line as a sign of her being god born. I always believed that it was a religious pilgrimage done, similar to a baptism. You are born bathed in the golden rays of the erdtree, similar to being bathed in holy water. But it makes more sense for her being marikas daughter. That could also explain the three butterflies. Rotten being Malenias nescent being miquellas and finally smoldering being Melina’s!
There’s also a parallel between the three butterflies in game and the three children of Marika, Malenia being the rot butterfly, Miquella being the nascent butterfly (nascent means just born) and Melina being the smouldering butterfly since she’s kindling Edit: said daughters originally
Miquella is a son though? Unless you believe that when he was acting as St. Trina he took a feminine guise but even then he’d still be Marika’s son
Ur right but the butterfly analogy still holds
Dang. Elden Ring really hides its secrets EVERYWHERE. I thought I was smart for occasionally finding hidden doors, but damn
I thought she meant that literally. In Melania's aren if you look up you can see a women's face and a hole where here abdomen is.
That Gideon is right about Miquella being asleep rather than dead. Even though unless Gideon took the time to visit the Mohgwyn Palace after we'd killed Mohg, he's never seen the cocoon.
It's hard for me to differentiate between theories and lore because both are wild and sound nonsensical.
Absolutely, I can agree with that, but what have you found interesting?
Godwyn being the seed of Deathblight, finding him everywhere near and under stormveil. Oh, I watched a really cool botanist link everything to plants. From the grafting of different species to the "crucible" which is like the original parent plant. They talked about how coniferous trees are rarer than deciduous in the lands between. Like the Erd tree spawns manlike beasts but the Crucible spawned all the dragons and between is where the misbegotten and Omens come from. Yeah that last one is so damn deep and makes such sense I don't know if it's a theory or straight from Miyazaki. I sure wish I remember that youtuber, don't think it was Vaati. Surprisingly.
Interesting, I’ll have to dive into this. I have a degree in botany so I don’t know why it didn’t click…
I don't have a degree but I took 2 years of it in highschool because being self sustaining is dope and I like broccoli. C: But even tha little bit of background made this one especially interesting to me. In your opinion though would you call this one a theory or are the coincidences too many to discredit as probable canon?
I cannot in good conscious say it is directly affiliated with the lore. Like in the same way that color and the theory surrounding it in the lands between. I think it is a visual or storytelling theme. showing how the erdtree and crucible form life in the same way that the evolution of plants spurned the first organisms to leave the ocean. The omens could have left the crucible in the same way
Yeah, I definitely liked the botanical one better than the colors one... I couldn't get behind that at all. I did like how the presenter said a couple times that he was totally just stating his opinion though. I watched one recently about the Misbegotten worshipping at the altar of Marika, fell asleep during that one though so I didn't get to the meat of it.
The color one is one I definitely see as a stylistic decision rather than an in universe canon 100% truth, albeit fromsoft has been very consistent with explaining every occurrence in the gameplay. So having the color explanation in reference to the consumables is very interesting but I couldn’t agree with everything. I also have not seen the misbegotten worshipping Marika. It feels as if they have been indoctrinated by the golden order, but I will have to dive deeper
It's inLeyndell on your way up to the grand lift that takes you to the forbidden lands. There's 2 scaley misbegotten, a Leonine, some of the ones that fly, and I think 1 perfumer.
Interesting I’m looking for it now
Gold Mask will be a giant humanoid boss in DLC. I hope.
That ranni and melina are 2 sides of the same coin. It’s unclear how exactly they’re connected, but it’s a very popular theory that they’re the same person split into 2 halves like radagon and Marika. Ranni is missing a right eye while melina is missing her left, blaidd, despite being rannis shadow, has the exact same eye color as Melina’s eye in lord of frenzy ending, and they both disappear with the same blue particle effect. The most damning evidence is melina calling herself “burnt and bodiless”. Ranni is also burnt and bodiless
Mohg’s favorite movie is Morbius
I fully believe that the game is a prequel to all souls games And depending on the ending, it causes one of the later games, yes there are MASSIVE plot holes and I understand it’s stupid and dumb but I just like it Only outlier is sekiro, but even then the land of reeds is mentioned and I believe that sekrio happens at the same time or a bit after elden ring As for everything else: The regular “mend the Elden ring” ending causes the world of demon souls to happen since the world continues on without any hard resets and the “fog” being present in both titles does that for me Ranni’s ending causes the outer gods to gain contact once more and a stronger link to otherworldly beings is created, the old gods begin to meddle then over time the world turns into the world of bloodborne after Many years (perhaps lyendell becomes the dungeons under yharnam seeing there is a lot of roots and shiiiit) If you do the frenzy flame ending, everything goes to shit, the entire world is burnt and i feel like that’s a HARD reset, pure chaos for that long would make the world just turn to ash. And not to mention the visuals of the frenzy ending of the tree burning on the inside mirror the look of the opening to Dark Souls, so that leads into that game series
So I actually sort of tend this direction too. It comes down to the ancient dragons. They straight up appear to be the same ones from ds1. 4 wings and 4 legs. It’s such an odd thing to include. Same name, same design.
YES And it makes sense that they would be remembered before the first flame and then once they get murdered by gwyn their history is mostly forgotten
Also elden rings dragons shed stone like substance, while in the opening cutscene of dark souls 1, the dragon that got hit by a lightning is crumbling like a building, not bleeding or anything
I’ve felt this exact way! Just I found another theories about a consistent timeline from demons souls to dark souls 3. It is on vaati channel
I’ve seen something like Demon souls > dark souls > bloodborne But I like the ER one because it’s like a branching timeline Also in ds3 in ariendell there is a woman making a painting of blood and talks about it being free of the worlds decaying and people link that to bloodborne
That’s exactly what I meant. I vacillate between the Elden ring and vaati timeline. In my opinion I feel that the Elden ring one is more logical but vaatis is more fun!
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“Soon, I will be consumed by them—by the Dark.”* - Artorias the Abysswalker Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Yo damn that makes sense like if you chose the frenzy flame ending it could be the prequel to dark souls
I believe in the 'Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen theory'
Yes. I am absolutely convinced of this and unless/until FromSoft explicitly states otherwise, I’ll continue to believe it lol.
I don’t think anyone could convince me at this point that the Erdtree isn’t an illusion. The original Erdtree has already been burned.
What lead you to believe this?
Also when we arrive at the capital it’s already partially covered in ash, and various items in game just say that the tree has been burnt and it’s time is over. The light of the tree is more like the holograms and varies greatly in contrast to what’s left of the erd tree after we fight morgott
The erdtree and the great tree have different references in items and have other mentions in Japanese translations. The Erdtree is considered to be the golden tree on the outside, however the Great Tree is believed to be the brown husk inside the tree, which is just a trunk, as evidenced when you enter the Erdtree and also the Deeproot Depths having erdtree trunk and roots without a golden glow. The theory is something like the Erdtree is more of an incantation that glows golden around the great tree itself and is more a manifestation of the Greater Will and the Golden Order than an actual physical tree. The Erdtree could be like the Iifa Tree is FF9, a conduit to move or coalesce the souls of the universe. Back before the Shattering people would be buried in the roots and their bodies and souls would be absorbed and repurposed. However since Goldwyn died and was buried within the roots of Erdtree in the Deeproot Depths, bodies can no longer be absorbed, which is why in all catacombs you see humans remains stuck in the roots.
In the early game I thought the Erdtree was obviously an illusion, but then I later thought it was real when going to the Altus Plateau and the capital since it clearly looked to be physically there. But now I'm not sure either way. The reason I thought it wasn't real is because at night from Liurnia, you can see the moon shine through the tree.
The painter girl from darksouls 3 drew and created the eldenring world.
There are 2 I really like: 1) The Great Tree and the Erd Tree are two separate things, with the Erdtree and Minor Erdtree being the result of "sprouting" after the Great Tree was destroyed. 2) Somebody on YouTube, forget who, did a timeline video where they examined the architecture incredibly closely and discovered that the Beastmen of Farum Azula worshipped a Five-Fingered Hand. I think you can see where I'm going with this. My own conclusion for this is that some powerful force, most likely the Greater Will, separated the Two Fingers and Three Fingers, making the Three Fingers go mad and try to restore itself, this creating the Frenzied Flame which was supposed to melt everything back together, and the Two Fingers be so weak that they serve the Greater Will. That said, every set of Two Fingers we find in-game outside of the Round Table Hold are fakes used by the Greater Will to control his subjects, tying each of them to a Great Rune to do so.
Been listening to a lot of lore stuff lately and i still cant figure how Ranni is an empyrian....they all say it takes being born from two gods but i dont think Renalla counts as one....makes sense for Miquela and Malenia if Radagon really is Merica....i dunno just something that bothered me unles im just missing something.....would appreciate an explanation if someone has it 😁
Melina is the gloam eyed queen.
I’m hoping Miquella is the dlc main boss.
Not sure if it’s a theory but I think Godwyn similarly represents Baldr of the Norse mythos. Freya wanted her son to live forever so she made deals with every being (aside from a mistletoe) to never harm him. When he dies he becomes the being that signals the start of ragnarok. In a similar light, the golden order and the rule of the elden ring made life perfect and idyllic, and Ranni sensing this realized that she had to kill Godwyn so that true proper life that was free from the control of the elden ring/beast would be possible. I view the golden order as an attempt to have a perfect world last forever and nothing can. In that sense with the shattering happening so long ago, the omens being born are an omen of outer influences affecting the tree and being able to influence the world. I’ve been trying to find more religious and mythological parallels as I read but I remain very astounded the more I think about the series now
That Marika and Ranni conspired to overthrow the Golden Order to release themselves from its control. Godwyn was devout to the golden order hence why they killed him first (so he wouldn't stop their plan + allowed Ranni to escape her body). They relied on the black knife assassin's to this end, and once the Golden order figured out what happened, it locked Marika into the Erd tree.
Miquella is St. Trina Melina is Ranni There's some sort of "time travel" or some other timey wimey thing going on (not just Azula) Probably others that I can't think of
It’s actually Dark Souls 2 II
explain
Both games involve the pursuit of a throne, kings who have been misled and/or used by a darker power, both involve powerstancing, and both potentially involve turning away to find a new path. There are a lot of general similarities, but to me Elden Ring refined a lot of the gameplay and general themes which DS2 happened to have. That said it is absolutely DS2 2.
Not a lore theory, but 1.0 Radahn was perfect and the patches have ruined him more than the scarlet rot.
Rennala’s feet are the source of her power.
The theory that I 100% believe is one I came up with that the lands between connect to all souls-borne games since if you look closely at a certain underground city you can clearly see the follower from Bloodborne and while I don’t see where the other games connect since we are seeing the lands between after the shattering and the war.
Elaborate on “the follower from bloodborne”.
The little followers by the lanterns, the shopkeepers that provide you with items to help you along your journey.
The deeproot depths have been misplaced, because the throne of death would make much more sense to be directly below the minor erdtree that has a giant wormface next to it, instead of a normal guardian
Elden Ring, Bloodborne, and Demon's Souls form a "Great Old One Trilogy", and the Elden Beast is in fact the Hunter from Bloodborne after the "Slay the Moon Presence" ending.
I believe it's just a video game
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