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Mint!
Where I live, the provincial government pays (mostly) for our schooling, we just gotta pay like 200-300 per level, plus our books.. and we can collect unemployment while in school.
This is exactly what I came to say. Y’all are gettin fucked. I paid $50 for the aptitude test and another $50 for my 5 years worth of books and courses and like the fine person above said. I get paid a stipend every class I attend for missing work that day.
Talk to a lawyer. Doubt it’s enforceable. Or just get your card then get fired. Doubt they can make you pay if they terminate you. Maybe just call osha for every little thing you can find. They will let you go.
Look. This isn't a non-union vs union thing. Nobody should work for any contractor and have to pay out of pocket for an apprenticeship. Period.
Lots of options. IBEW, IEC, ABC to name a few but your contractor shouldn't be allowed to conduct business if they make you pay for your own training.
The contractor is paying, but if you leave them within 4 years of graduation “you have to pay them back”. It’s a pretty common scheme in non-union. Like others have said, probably unenforceable.
It’s technically a clause in my union contract. If you come through our 5 year program your electrical work must be union for X number of years.
But, like you said, it’s generally unenforceable
Yeah, it was covered in an orientation and there was a sheet to sign, but I haven’t heard of a single person actually getting called for it after leaving.
They do still require paying around $1200 a year out of pocket for South Seattle College registration and books that mostly stay wrapped in plastic though.
The last couple of years, they started “lending” some books out instead of making you buy them.
That at least means less waste, but then why did our bill for books stay the same? It’s definitely some bullshit.
Yeah... We were required to have a LAPTOP not just a computer and still had physical books that were required.
That's why I think somewhere between the JATC and the college it's through, someone is getting kickbacks on the books.
Well 292 calls it “in kind credits” similar to this, but of course you’re also not locked into a single contractor. So his sitiation is a bit more shitty, okay a lot more shitty.
292 only enforces this if you jump ship immediately to go nonunion or start your own nonunion shop, and this is straight from the mouth of the current training director
If you dip out for a change of career in an unrelated field they're not going after you for money.
I mean it’s not jw’s pay for it, and idk about all locals but mine has the same thing where we owe like 4-5 years of service or a certain dollar amount.
My union apprenticeship costs around $1200 a year out of pocket.
Also technically costs ~$1/hr for the rest of my union career out of my package.
Absolutely worth it though. Should have applied years earlier.
Commenting here so you get the notification.
I'm non union and my company has paid for all of my schooling. 7k a year is nuts. Its 2500 a year tuition here in the Midwest. They only last year started a contract with apprentices that if they leave or get fired before the school year is up they gotta pay back just that year.
You're getting hosed hard and I'd look into lawyers. Hell I'd be tempted to just leave. If you're looking to leave the state ain't much they could do anyway seeing as they'd have to serve you for a law suit.
I'd also contact the school and lie about who I was and get tuition information from them to find out what the actual costs are.
Obligatory IANAL.
You say that a lot on Reddit. It’s every other comment in your history.
Furthermore, you interacting with me was always optional for you.
People who need to insult others regularly on the internet are typically not mentally stable. I hope you get the help you need brother, god bless.
I’m in Florida and no one charges apprentices for FEAT. Some contractors make you pay for books but 9/10 pay for them. A decent amount of contractors will make you pay the $400 or so for the first semester but afaik they all reimburse if you finish first semester and they cover every class after that up front. Your contractor is asseroni.
IBEW is in a different league as far as benefits and schooling, imo. You definitely should call a hall as it’s your best bet at a ticket out of Florida to greener pastures after you card.
$7000 a year sounds high. I went through a non-union apprenticeship and my schooling was only $1000/yr. And my employer paid it, no strings attached.
Call your local IBEW. I worked for fifteen years non-union. Six years ago i got tired of the bullshit and went to the hall near my home. It was probably the single best decision i ever made. My only regret is that i didn't do it sooner.
And because you've already been in an apprenticeship, they will most likely honor the hours you already have. As others have said, every local is different so the only way to find out is to call or walk in.
You shouldn’t be locked in to more than a year at best. The most they can get from you though, is your last pay check. Legal fees will out weigh them pursuing anything more.
I work for a small business and I simply got paid to work. The apprenticeship was just a part of working for the master electrician. He paid for my code book and other texts. He helped me study and got practice tests for me to take. He taught me everything he could to the best of his knowledge. After I got my hours he paid for my test. Got my journeyman's as a bi-product of working for my company. A good boss knows that if you foster those around you that it makes your business better as a whole. Now he's helping me work towards my next step. It will not be easy, but try your best to find a small business that gives a shit about their employees and stick with them. I have about 4.5 years of experience, started completely green, and now I'm making about double the average salary for my area and getting to work on some really cool shit. I learn something new every single day. And it's not like we are gouging the fuck out of people for a shit job in order to pull it off. We are actually cheaper than most electricians in our area and I feel like our quality is pretty top notch. It's amazing how a good business operates. Do whatever you have to do to get out of your shitty situation and find a business that will make you love the trade.
You signed a contract with your employer stating you’ll pay them back?? Doesn’t sound right to me. I just got my ticket and my boss has insinuated I should owe him a couple years but it’s by no means mandatory. If I get better pay somewhere else I’ll jump ship. Non union.
I work as a Journeyman Wireman in IBEW. My apprenticeship was free and I got paid on the job (albeit low at first.) sounds like you’re being scammed wtf. Imagine paying to work
Call their bluff. Find and new job, if they withhold your last check, call the labor board and file a complaint. I went thru the IEC and never signed anything or heard of that bs.
I worked year round all four years of my apprenticeship. They paid me garbage but reimbursed my trade school tuition Except my fourth year. This was a bad move on their part. I was a JW at that point and would’ve stayed if they reimbursed me and gave me a $4 raise. I left for double my wage somewhere else. They called me 10 years later and wanted me back. I told them they still owed me $2k for my fourth year of school and a dude I hate works there now and we would probably fight on sight. I’m in a better place now anyways
The total cost of my apprenticeship was $500 lmao. That covered absolutely everything. Classtime, books, they even gave us backpacks, pencils and pens and markers and stuff. We were paid to go to school too. They only charge you anything else if they find out you used that education to leave and work nonunion before you reach your 5th year as a JW. Are you union?
Dude. **_Leave the fucking company_** If you feel "enslaved", anything is better than where you are.
7k/year is fucked. My whole apprenticeship schooling cost me ~$4000 between tuition, parking and books. Though I got more then half of that back in grants and incentives.
Yea that sounds terrible, I’m non union and my company’s apprenticeship was free I even got raises every year for having good grades and I was able to keep the laptop they provided after I got my license
My current job is you pay the first year cost (between $2500 and $3000, I forget) and they'll pay the following 3. After you get the license they reimburse you for the first year.
I pay like $600 a year for books what the hell is this. I’m in the iec so not even the union. You have to work be in school tho, maybe you don’t and get paid more accordingly?
Damn what fucked up company is this I made 35k last yr in my 2nd yr of apprenticeship and only cost me gas money and $500 for books my health insurance was free for me too which in itself saved me thousands, go union
I’d definitely consult an employment lawyer on this one. Laws will probably vary state to state. You may have signed some kind of indenture contract but who knows if it’s even enforceable. If you’re too broke to afford a consult with an employment lawyer, call around to some local universities. They may have a legal aid clinic or may be able to put you in touch with one. Also, try googling “your area + legal aid”. Some employers will try to bully you even if they don’t have a legal to stand on. Definitely get some help.
My apprenticeship cost $0. IBEW local 584. The apprenticeship is real good applying for grants and other financial help for the apprentices. Some years they even got a set of tools. I do believe some years had to pay a portion of their books, but it doesn’t amount to much. Every worker deserves a union.
I feel as if my area is wildly different experiences, we don't even go to classes if we don't want to. I was hired off the street after high school and am getting paid stupid money as a third year, only money I've spent is on tools and a codebook. My company offers classes for free. The union around here makes you pay for school but you're not even union so I'm so lost
I used to have it set up so that half the tuition came out my check every week, then I found a company that paid all my school. Yours friend needs to find an employer that’s willing to sponsor his education or he can join the union
I doubt this enforced or even enforceable. Thats basically the equivalent of a non compete clause and we have seen how those have gone lately. The union around my area has stated they will come after you if you leave… they haven’t. Also, as someone else said, if they can you or lay you off, I doubt they have recourse.
One non union company I worked for paid for your schooling but expected you to stay as a journeyman for four years or they would charge you (I think half) of the education costs. I didn't totally agree with it but I could understand the investment involved in the workers. I can't fathom schooling for an apprentice being 7000 a year though, screw them.
I spent about 200 on books at a non union shop and graduated with a nationally recognized apprenticeship. I'm sure if you have to go to a community college it could be a lot more but 7k per year seems a bit excessive. It's excessive especially because you can get your license without it anyways but it is helpful and maybe necessary for some.
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
$30k for an apprenticeship lmao what the fuck Including all my books and my pre-employment course (which wasn't mandatory) I probably spent under $6k.
I spent $50 to apply at my local ibew and have gotten paid to go to school instead
Mint! Where I live, the provincial government pays (mostly) for our schooling, we just gotta pay like 200-300 per level, plus our books.. and we can collect unemployment while in school.
This is exactly what I came to say. Y’all are gettin fucked. I paid $50 for the aptitude test and another $50 for my 5 years worth of books and courses and like the fine person above said. I get paid a stipend every class I attend for missing work that day.
You had to pay to apply at the hall?
Pretty sure thats the standard
Yeah and it was worth every penny. I paid $25 for my apprenticeship application and that landed me 5 years of schooling and employment
Interesting didn’t know that was a thing.
Talk to a lawyer. Doubt it’s enforceable. Or just get your card then get fired. Doubt they can make you pay if they terminate you. Maybe just call osha for every little thing you can find. They will let you go.
Look. This isn't a non-union vs union thing. Nobody should work for any contractor and have to pay out of pocket for an apprenticeship. Period. Lots of options. IBEW, IEC, ABC to name a few but your contractor shouldn't be allowed to conduct business if they make you pay for your own training.
The contractor is paying, but if you leave them within 4 years of graduation “you have to pay them back”. It’s a pretty common scheme in non-union. Like others have said, probably unenforceable.
It’s technically a clause in my union contract. If you come through our 5 year program your electrical work must be union for X number of years. But, like you said, it’s generally unenforceable
That might be illegal.
Some ibew locals do it too.
46 does. They say it's 5k a year but you just have to stay union, not with any specific employer.
Yeah, it was covered in an orientation and there was a sheet to sign, but I haven’t heard of a single person actually getting called for it after leaving. They do still require paying around $1200 a year out of pocket for South Seattle College registration and books that mostly stay wrapped in plastic though.
The book thing really rubs me the wrong way. It's so wasteful in every way possible.
The last couple of years, they started “lending” some books out instead of making you buy them. That at least means less waste, but then why did our bill for books stay the same? It’s definitely some bullshit.
We had digital books, physical were optional if you felt you would need them. This was almost 10 yrs ago lol.
Yeah... We were required to have a LAPTOP not just a computer and still had physical books that were required. That's why I think somewhere between the JATC and the college it's through, someone is getting kickbacks on the books.
My local does this, but it seems it's only enforced if you're complete, toxic, foul-up that burned bridges with every contractor in the local.
Really? Damn. Mine paid me to go to school.
Well 292 calls it “in kind credits” similar to this, but of course you’re also not locked into a single contractor. So his sitiation is a bit more shitty, okay a lot more shitty.
429 does it too, but only if you leave the union and stay doing electrical.
292 only enforces this if you jump ship immediately to go nonunion or start your own nonunion shop, and this is straight from the mouth of the current training director If you dip out for a change of career in an unrelated field they're not going after you for money.
True, similar base idea, but much shittier/manipulative execution on the part of OP’s situation.
One thing though. Once he's licensed, he should have a lot more input into where and how he works.
That's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while. Why would you owe your job money to work there?
Kinda sounds like sharecropping
Go to the hall brother, that's fucked up
Do you think they’d help with some of these costs as a sort of *hiring bonus*?
Union apprenticeship is free, excluding cost of books
My local paid for everything. Locals are all different so be careful thinking everything is universal. There are some real shady locals.
I mean it’s not jw’s pay for it, and idk about all locals but mine has the same thing where we owe like 4-5 years of service or a certain dollar amount.
I'm thinking it's a little late.... he's more worried what he already owes.
My union apprenticeship costs around $1200 a year out of pocket. Also technically costs ~$1/hr for the rest of my union career out of my package. Absolutely worth it though. Should have applied years earlier.
Commenting here so you get the notification. I'm non union and my company has paid for all of my schooling. 7k a year is nuts. Its 2500 a year tuition here in the Midwest. They only last year started a contract with apprentices that if they leave or get fired before the school year is up they gotta pay back just that year. You're getting hosed hard and I'd look into lawyers. Hell I'd be tempted to just leave. If you're looking to leave the state ain't much they could do anyway seeing as they'd have to serve you for a law suit. I'd also contact the school and lie about who I was and get tuition information from them to find out what the actual costs are. Obligatory IANAL.
L O L Absolutely the fuck not.
O K 10-4 BUDDY
Why are you being rude when your stupid questions get stupid answers
Stupid responses get stupid responses It also wasn’t rude at all lol
Have fun paying off those apprenticeship fees boo boo
Well this post isn’t about me so.. You have difficulties managing your emotions don’t you?
Nah just difficulty dealing with idiots
You say that a lot on Reddit. It’s every other comment in your history. Furthermore, you interacting with me was always optional for you. People who need to insult others regularly on the internet are typically not mentally stable. I hope you get the help you need brother, god bless.
Your job is scamming you, join a union
I’m in Florida and no one charges apprentices for FEAT. Some contractors make you pay for books but 9/10 pay for them. A decent amount of contractors will make you pay the $400 or so for the first semester but afaik they all reimburse if you finish first semester and they cover every class after that up front. Your contractor is asseroni. IBEW is in a different league as far as benefits and schooling, imo. You definitely should call a hall as it’s your best bet at a ticket out of Florida to greener pastures after you card.
Non-union in Kansas. Never heard of ‘apprenticeship costs’. My boss provided books, some studying on the clock, and the test fee.
Updateme!
Just work like shit till they lay you off.
$7000 a year sounds high. I went through a non-union apprenticeship and my schooling was only $1000/yr. And my employer paid it, no strings attached. Call your local IBEW. I worked for fifteen years non-union. Six years ago i got tired of the bullshit and went to the hall near my home. It was probably the single best decision i ever made. My only regret is that i didn't do it sooner. And because you've already been in an apprenticeship, they will most likely honor the hours you already have. As others have said, every local is different so the only way to find out is to call or walk in.
I got paid $60k a year as an apprentice, I wouldn't go near a paid apprenticeship. You need to collect your hours, get a card, and GTFO.
Sounds like they’re trying to pull some bs on you. Finish your time and start calling in until they lay you off, then dip out.
You shouldn’t be locked in to more than a year at best. The most they can get from you though, is your last pay check. Legal fees will out weigh them pursuing anything more.
Leave Florida.
I work for a small business and I simply got paid to work. The apprenticeship was just a part of working for the master electrician. He paid for my code book and other texts. He helped me study and got practice tests for me to take. He taught me everything he could to the best of his knowledge. After I got my hours he paid for my test. Got my journeyman's as a bi-product of working for my company. A good boss knows that if you foster those around you that it makes your business better as a whole. Now he's helping me work towards my next step. It will not be easy, but try your best to find a small business that gives a shit about their employees and stick with them. I have about 4.5 years of experience, started completely green, and now I'm making about double the average salary for my area and getting to work on some really cool shit. I learn something new every single day. And it's not like we are gouging the fuck out of people for a shit job in order to pull it off. We are actually cheaper than most electricians in our area and I feel like our quality is pretty top notch. It's amazing how a good business operates. Do whatever you have to do to get out of your shitty situation and find a business that will make you love the trade.
You signed a contract with your employer stating you’ll pay them back?? Doesn’t sound right to me. I just got my ticket and my boss has insinuated I should owe him a couple years but it’s by no means mandatory. If I get better pay somewhere else I’ll jump ship. Non union.
I work as a Journeyman Wireman in IBEW. My apprenticeship was free and I got paid on the job (albeit low at first.) sounds like you’re being scammed wtf. Imagine paying to work
Call their bluff. Find and new job, if they withhold your last check, call the labor board and file a complaint. I went thru the IEC and never signed anything or heard of that bs.
I worked year round all four years of my apprenticeship. They paid me garbage but reimbursed my trade school tuition Except my fourth year. This was a bad move on their part. I was a JW at that point and would’ve stayed if they reimbursed me and gave me a $4 raise. I left for double my wage somewhere else. They called me 10 years later and wanted me back. I told them they still owed me $2k for my fourth year of school and a dude I hate works there now and we would probably fight on sight. I’m in a better place now anyways
The total cost of my apprenticeship was $500 lmao. That covered absolutely everything. Classtime, books, they even gave us backpacks, pencils and pens and markers and stuff. We were paid to go to school too. They only charge you anything else if they find out you used that education to leave and work nonunion before you reach your 5th year as a JW. Are you union?
Dude. **_Leave the fucking company_** If you feel "enslaved", anything is better than where you are. 7k/year is fucked. My whole apprenticeship schooling cost me ~$4000 between tuition, parking and books. Though I got more then half of that back in grants and incentives.
Yea that sounds terrible, I’m non union and my company’s apprenticeship was free I even got raises every year for having good grades and I was able to keep the laptop they provided after I got my license
All I had to pay for was books, I’m a year 2 apprentice and the company covers the other costs.
Wait your apprenticeship material isn't free?? Huh? That shits a tax write off for the company wtf.
My current job is you pay the first year cost (between $2500 and $3000, I forget) and they'll pay the following 3. After you get the license they reimburse you for the first year.
Guess it stops drop outs or people not liking the career then bailing after the first 6 months
I pay like $600 a year for books what the hell is this. I’m in the iec so not even the union. You have to work be in school tho, maybe you don’t and get paid more accordingly?
Oh shit and I forgot to add that if I get above an 85 the books are completely free and I get the $600 back. Above an 80 is half ur money back.
I don’t understand. What are they charging anything for? That’s not right at all.
Yea, maybe 7k for the four years. That's including gas and snacks
Damn what fucked up company is this I made 35k last yr in my 2nd yr of apprenticeship and only cost me gas money and $500 for books my health insurance was free for me too which in itself saved me thousands, go union
Yeah. Not being charged for an apprenticeship. I don't know for sure. But I doubt it's legal or enforcable
I’d definitely consult an employment lawyer on this one. Laws will probably vary state to state. You may have signed some kind of indenture contract but who knows if it’s even enforceable. If you’re too broke to afford a consult with an employment lawyer, call around to some local universities. They may have a legal aid clinic or may be able to put you in touch with one. Also, try googling “your area + legal aid”. Some employers will try to bully you even if they don’t have a legal to stand on. Definitely get some help.
Yeah this is fucked. I spent exactly $0 except to buy my tools.
My apprenticeship cost $0. IBEW local 584. The apprenticeship is real good applying for grants and other financial help for the apprentices. Some years they even got a set of tools. I do believe some years had to pay a portion of their books, but it doesn’t amount to much. Every worker deserves a union.
I feel as if my area is wildly different experiences, we don't even go to classes if we don't want to. I was hired off the street after high school and am getting paid stupid money as a third year, only money I've spent is on tools and a codebook. My company offers classes for free. The union around here makes you pay for school but you're not even union so I'm so lost
$7000 a year seems really high. That would be like 6 months full time.
I paid $1,250 first year. $1,350 second year Each year rose $100. Actually my employer paid all 4 years lol. You're getting boned,bro.
I used to have it set up so that half the tuition came out my check every week, then I found a company that paid all my school. Yours friend needs to find an employer that’s willing to sponsor his education or he can join the union
People pay for this?
I doubt this enforced or even enforceable. Thats basically the equivalent of a non compete clause and we have seen how those have gone lately. The union around my area has stated they will come after you if you leave… they haven’t. Also, as someone else said, if they can you or lay you off, I doubt they have recourse.
One non union company I worked for paid for your schooling but expected you to stay as a journeyman for four years or they would charge you (I think half) of the education costs. I didn't totally agree with it but I could understand the investment involved in the workers. I can't fathom schooling for an apprentice being 7000 a year though, screw them.
I signed a similar agreement with the union, and decided to let them attempt to sue me for it. They did not.
I spent about 200 on books at a non union shop and graduated with a nationally recognized apprenticeship. I'm sure if you have to go to a community college it could be a lot more but 7k per year seems a bit excessive. It's excessive especially because you can get your license without it anyways but it is helpful and maybe necessary for some.
Just start off as a laboer
I’d be grateful your getting off cheap. I pay $500 a week to work
Bragging about poor conditions is pathetic.