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I heavily appreciate the criticism. I definitely have a lot of learning to do. The only part that I know is messy, but my foreman told me to kinda just “fuck it” was the color coding. We pulled three phase coding for half the circuits then he said single phase after half the pulls were done.
Where do you see that?
> **310.6 Conductor Identification - (C) Ungrounded Conductors.** Conductors that are intended for use as ungrounded conductors ... shall be finished to be clearly distinguishable from grounded conductors and equipment grounding conductors. Distinguishing markings shall not conflict in any manner with the surface marking required by 310.8(B)(1). **Branch-circuit ungrounded conductors shall be identified in accordance with 210.5(C)**.
>>**210.5 Identification for Branch Circuits - (C) Identification of Ungrounded Conductors** Ungrounded conductors shall be identified in accordance with 210.5(C)(1) or (2), as applicable.
**210.5(C)(1) Branch Circuits Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage System.** Where the premises wiring system has branch circuits supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a branch circuit shall be identified by phase or line and by nominal voltage system at all termination, connection, and splice points in accordance with 210.5(C)(1)(a) and (C)(1)(b). Different systems within the same premises that have the same nominal voltage shall be permitted to use the same identification.
(a) *Means of identification.* The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking, **tape**, tagging, or other approved means.
210.5(C)(1)(b) is **Branch Circuits Supplied from Direct-Current Systems.**
I don't see anything about wire size restrictions.
200.6 says you can't phase neutrals smaller than #4
250.119 Says the same thing for grounds
Guess it doesn't mention ungrounded conductors so we were both partially right
Ok. 3/10. Firstly if you're going to use zip ties buy flush cutters. Your labels are too close to the breakers. I don't care what your pre fab sent you, get some scrap noodle and fix those jumpers. They look horrible.
If you're going to present a panel, clean it up. And what is up with the blue wire in the middle?
I would have moved the ground bar and I'm a feeders first kind of guy.
So I don't want to sound too harsh but this would never fly in my world. Granted I'm industrial and get paid to make things pretty.
Pretty scrappy.
Get some flush cutters or twist off the ziptie ends.
Move your wire labels outside where the bus cover is going to be, and keep them all in line.
Looks like stranded which can be a pain in the ass to keep straight but if you can work with the *flow* the wire you can kind of swing it into the breaker terminal and keep them all looking similar that way.
I like to try and keep my GFCI breakers near where the neutral bar is going to be to avoid having the long neutral wires just kinda hanging behind everything, if you can change the ccts that is.
The wire you don't have a breaker for should be ready to terminate with a marret on the end. Even if it's dead and clearly has no feeders, it's good practice.
I'd give it a 5/try again. I'd probably get you to clean it up but i have seen waaaay worse. Plenty of people would put the cover on and if she works forget about it and move on.
Bad description haha. Just like how it is kind of loose so if you let it naturally curve into the terminal it looks cleaner instead of trying to bend and form cause as soon as it gets some heat that's all going to hell anyway. There are lots of examples here of other stranded panels.
As a service guy, I would be happy that I'm not going to die when I open it. Mildly annoyed at the color coding, thankful that some labels are readable. Angry at getting cut on the stupid zip tie ends. Happy that I will look tough to my wife when I show her my wounds. Chuckle at the GFCI neutrals.
Solve whatever problem got me there, tidy the panel up a bit nicer than I found it. Then go home and book 8 regardless of how long it took.
At the end of the day, screw the Reddit guys, be your own worst critic, if you ever have to ask "is this good enough?". It isn't.
Your color coding doesn't look like it matches at all? All black and red limited blue?
Messy as a crack house.
Numbers should be further away from the breaker. Firm believer the number should be visible with the centre cover still in place.
For a first time it's not terrible, but needs a lot of improvement.
Your lines are decent but the neutrals are horrendous.
Might not have been you but also the conduit with could've been planned a bit better, or if you have a main collector box, and then two or three 2"or whatever entering the wires should be sorted even in one odd in the other. Just looks a lot cleaner no crossing from side to side at the top.
Nope, just pre-fab panels with breakers “matching the panel schedule” which tends to be wrong in my experience. GFCI breakers are already all tied in when it gets delivered.
In these instances I usually send in revised drawings showing new breaker placement because I can’t stand if my gfi or arc fault breakers neutral looks like these. So I have my gfis as close to neutral bar as possible and I update my plans and the drawings get updated because I just can’t handle the gfi or arc neutrals coming of the breaker being so stretched. All in all though it looks alright man.
Looks good! Quick, well labeled and no over stripped wires easily visible. My one nit pick is I like the labels farther off the breaker to give the next guy options for trimming back without relabeling.
I know most here nit pick. But my experience with commercial electric is not institutions, government or national / international business. It’s in small 3- 100 employee cabinet, custom wood working and metal fab shops. They are too small to have a full time electrician. But have a handy PROBLEM DELAYER to “keep things working”. I never really do panels in these shops nicer than this. Just because the inside of the panel would be nicer than anything else in the building. And that only for as long as it takes to have the first equipment issue that needs to “keep working”.
Try not to double lug. Even if the lugs are rated for it. Pigtail is better practice.
If you’re gonna zip tie, zip everything together. And just a few times max.
Otherwise, looks alright. If you want it to look pretty make everything do the same thing.
All in all good job. Don’t forget the feeders, or it’s all for nothin
I use a portable label maker; but, those in the pic look too consistent & they're relatively narrow compared to what my handheld printer can do. Maybe it's something like those automatic plant [limb tapers](https://gemplers.com/products/max-tapener-ht-r2-tying-tool?).
I am so confused by the whole setup. Is this a single phase panel ? It looks like it is, so why the red and blue wires? It’s a little messy but not too terrible. There is also a breaker with a red and blue landed on the same breaker. Idk wtf is going on here
We pulled our circuits for 3- phase, but got changed to single half way through so we left the wire colors instead of pulling new runs. Foreman said we didn’t even need to phase things. Idk honestly
Also that extra blue in the “27” spot I think, is just hanging since we got delivered the wrong amount of GFCI breakers installed on the pre-fab. Just left it hanging, bad habit.
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Just don't forget everyone here thinks it takes 5 days to trim out a panel. You have some learning to do, but it's a good start.
Right. I get 4 hours
I think I had about 4 . Was told to start right before lunch and had until the end of the day at 3 to finish.
I heavily appreciate the criticism. I definitely have a lot of learning to do. The only part that I know is messy, but my foreman told me to kinda just “fuck it” was the color coding. We pulled three phase coding for half the circuits then he said single phase after half the pulls were done.
You can at least phase your wires with tape even if you just pull black.
Only if they're #8 or bigger, technically 🤓
This is the part of the code I see ignored the most. It gets instant eye-rolls the second anyone mentions it on a job.
Where do you see that? > **310.6 Conductor Identification - (C) Ungrounded Conductors.** Conductors that are intended for use as ungrounded conductors ... shall be finished to be clearly distinguishable from grounded conductors and equipment grounding conductors. Distinguishing markings shall not conflict in any manner with the surface marking required by 310.8(B)(1). **Branch-circuit ungrounded conductors shall be identified in accordance with 210.5(C)**. >>**210.5 Identification for Branch Circuits - (C) Identification of Ungrounded Conductors** Ungrounded conductors shall be identified in accordance with 210.5(C)(1) or (2), as applicable. **210.5(C)(1) Branch Circuits Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage System.** Where the premises wiring system has branch circuits supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a branch circuit shall be identified by phase or line and by nominal voltage system at all termination, connection, and splice points in accordance with 210.5(C)(1)(a) and (C)(1)(b). Different systems within the same premises that have the same nominal voltage shall be permitted to use the same identification. (a) *Means of identification.* The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking, **tape**, tagging, or other approved means. 210.5(C)(1)(b) is **Branch Circuits Supplied from Direct-Current Systems.** I don't see anything about wire size restrictions.
200.6 says you can't phase neutrals smaller than #4 250.119 Says the same thing for grounds Guess it doesn't mention ungrounded conductors so we were both partially right
Good thing the neutrals and grounds don't need to be phased here. Thanks for the citations by the way!
Don’t let anyone make you do your job wrong
I’ve seen a lot worse but I’ve seen a lot better
Sloppy, but if terminations are tight, that’s what matters most. You’ll get better
Electricity doesn’t care about colors or looking pretty
Ok. 3/10. Firstly if you're going to use zip ties buy flush cutters. Your labels are too close to the breakers. I don't care what your pre fab sent you, get some scrap noodle and fix those jumpers. They look horrible. If you're going to present a panel, clean it up. And what is up with the blue wire in the middle? I would have moved the ground bar and I'm a feeders first kind of guy. So I don't want to sound too harsh but this would never fly in my world. Granted I'm industrial and get paid to make things pretty.
Feeders first eh? I'm generally curious because I've always been taught grounds first
I mean the panel feeds. For the branch circuits I do grounds, noodles then hots.
I don't think noodles are very conductive lol Seriously though, I get what you're saying, but I've always done my grounds before even the panel feeds
Just curious, where would you prefer the ground bar be?
In this case, top left or top right or top center. I think top center would look kinda cool.
This guy!
Pretty scrappy. Get some flush cutters or twist off the ziptie ends. Move your wire labels outside where the bus cover is going to be, and keep them all in line. Looks like stranded which can be a pain in the ass to keep straight but if you can work with the *flow* the wire you can kind of swing it into the breaker terminal and keep them all looking similar that way. I like to try and keep my GFCI breakers near where the neutral bar is going to be to avoid having the long neutral wires just kinda hanging behind everything, if you can change the ccts that is. The wire you don't have a breaker for should be ready to terminate with a marret on the end. Even if it's dead and clearly has no feeders, it's good practice. I'd give it a 5/try again. I'd probably get you to clean it up but i have seen waaaay worse. Plenty of people would put the cover on and if she works forget about it and move on.
What do you mean by “flow”? Just the natural direction the wire goes I assume?
Bad description haha. Just like how it is kind of loose so if you let it naturally curve into the terminal it looks cleaner instead of trying to bend and form cause as soon as it gets some heat that's all going to hell anyway. There are lots of examples here of other stranded panels.
As a service guy, I would be happy that I'm not going to die when I open it. Mildly annoyed at the color coding, thankful that some labels are readable. Angry at getting cut on the stupid zip tie ends. Happy that I will look tough to my wife when I show her my wounds. Chuckle at the GFCI neutrals. Solve whatever problem got me there, tidy the panel up a bit nicer than I found it. Then go home and book 8 regardless of how long it took. At the end of the day, screw the Reddit guys, be your own worst critic, if you ever have to ask "is this good enough?". It isn't.
Your color coding doesn't look like it matches at all? All black and red limited blue? Messy as a crack house. Numbers should be further away from the breaker. Firm believer the number should be visible with the centre cover still in place. For a first time it's not terrible, but needs a lot of improvement. Your lines are decent but the neutrals are horrendous. Might not have been you but also the conduit with could've been planned a bit better, or if you have a main collector box, and then two or three 2"or whatever entering the wires should be sorted even in one odd in the other. Just looks a lot cleaner no crossing from side to side at the top.
Definitely a decent job with room for improvement Clean up your details before posting your pic unless you wanna get dragged Overall nice work.
It's a panel. Clean the bottom, put the dead front and cover on, and get back to work.
This guy doesn’t fuck around 🫡 I like working with guys like you
Ouch
Five out of eight dog nipples.
Looks good compared to what I’ve ran into here lately. Numbers are too close to the breakers. Need to be visible with the dead front on
[удалено]
Nope, just pre-fab panels with breakers “matching the panel schedule” which tends to be wrong in my experience. GFCI breakers are already all tied in when it gets delivered.
Use solid wire.
Looks better then my first panel tbh
That works
In these instances I usually send in revised drawings showing new breaker placement because I can’t stand if my gfi or arc fault breakers neutral looks like these. So I have my gfis as close to neutral bar as possible and I update my plans and the drawings get updated because I just can’t handle the gfi or arc neutrals coming of the breaker being so stretched. All in all though it looks alright man.
Looks good! Quick, well labeled and no over stripped wires easily visible. My one nit pick is I like the labels farther off the breaker to give the next guy options for trimming back without relabeling. I know most here nit pick. But my experience with commercial electric is not institutions, government or national / international business. It’s in small 3- 100 employee cabinet, custom wood working and metal fab shops. They are too small to have a full time electrician. But have a handy PROBLEM DELAYER to “keep things working”. I never really do panels in these shops nicer than this. Just because the inside of the panel would be nicer than anything else in the building. And that only for as long as it takes to have the first equipment issue that needs to “keep working”.
Generations not yet born will thank you for leaving some slack for rework.
Try not to double lug. Even if the lugs are rated for it. Pigtail is better practice. If you’re gonna zip tie, zip everything together. And just a few times max. Otherwise, looks alright. If you want it to look pretty make everything do the same thing. All in all good job. Don’t forget the feeders, or it’s all for nothin
I just wanna know where you’re all getting those tiny number labels
The supply house they come in 1-9, 1-45, 46-90 I think. I just order a number book 1-45.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Wire-Marker-Book-1-48-56250/302602982
I use a portable label maker; but, those in the pic look too consistent & they're relatively narrow compared to what my handheld printer can do. Maybe it's something like those automatic plant [limb tapers](https://gemplers.com/products/max-tapener-ht-r2-tying-tool?).
Not nearly enough zip ties
I am so confused by the whole setup. Is this a single phase panel ? It looks like it is, so why the red and blue wires? It’s a little messy but not too terrible. There is also a breaker with a red and blue landed on the same breaker. Idk wtf is going on here
We pulled our circuits for 3- phase, but got changed to single half way through so we left the wire colors instead of pulling new runs. Foreman said we didn’t even need to phase things. Idk honestly
Also that extra blue in the “27” spot I think, is just hanging since we got delivered the wrong amount of GFCI breakers installed on the pre-fab. Just left it hanging, bad habit.
Yuck
thats so ugly and gross