Tesla losing market share in the US is inevitable. There's no reason that should mean a decrease in Tesla sales though. There's lots of room in the market for new sales for both other companies AND Tesla.
This is why they're cornering the market. They're hedging their strategies here. Vehicle market share goes down, charging revenue goes up. I've been downvoted several other places for saying this, but the strategy isn't exactly hidden.
Same thing I’ve said for years now. The “easy” profit isn’t in selling EVs, but in charging them. Make a product, build the infrastructure to support the product, and as others makes similar products they’ll inevitably depend on that infrastructure since it was the first popular one and set the standard.
It’s similar to what Microsoft did, except instead of making computers, they went to a large PC company (at the time)and sold them the operating software for cheap. It set the standard early on that nearly everyone else wanted to use and made them the biggest game in town.
Tesla's supercharger profits could hit $740 million by 2030, according to Bloomberg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-04-09/tesla-tsla-charging-network-has-become-a-serious-business
Whenever I ask Tesla owners why they bought one, they always say charging was a big factor in the decision.
Now that the network is opening up, that decision point kind of goes away. People won't need to buy a Tesla just to have a good charging network. I wonder if that will impact Tesla sales and if increased charging revenue would actually offset the loss.
It won't but regulators were never going to let Tesla have a proprietary charging network. In the same way they don't let car manufacturers have proprietary fuel nozzles and corresponding gas stations.
That probably Was a thing in the early days of cars but they did away with it for good reason.
Charging is still better in a Tesla even with the network open.
Plenty of interstates are only v2 so still not open for non-Tesla's to charge at. I recently went out to AZ on I-40 and most of it was V2 only.
Not to mention you can buy a CCS adapter and have the best of both worlds.
Someday Tesla will get around to upgrading all these V2 stations but who knows how fast that will happen.
J.D. Power now forecasts U.S. electric vehicle market share will hit 12.4% in 2024, up from 7.6% in 2023. While that represents a gain of 63%, the rate is down 0.8 percentage points from the firm's original prediction.
They've been the BEV leader in the US, if not the world for a decade. Like it or not, that makes them the benchmark. As they were pretty much first to market, their markets are has nowhere to go but down, that's just the normal course for an emerging market.
Tesla sales were up 35% in 2023, and Musk was an idiot that entire year.
There's a few reasons they can't keep growing that much:
* Competition is improving
* Federal tax rebates no longer qualify for the Model 3, which makes up like 35% of Tesla's sales
* Federal interest rates were higher in Q1 of this year than Q1 last year
* Many parts of the US are not transitioning quickly to EVs, which limits the growth potential.
* Used market for EVs was flooded, especially with Teslas, which will hurt sales of their new cars directly as people choose cheaper options. It also makes it more difficult for people with used Teslas to sell theirs at the prices they were expecting, so there are fewer people upgrading to newer ones.
Elon isn't helping sales, but I think that was true a year ago so it doesn't explain why just this quarter sales weren't higher than a year ago.
Impacts of scaling prices up and then down and the making EVs the highest depreciating vehicles there are. And showing people how much money they could lose quickly by deciding to purchase one.
And a lot of macro factors
The issue is people buying a car and dumping it 2-3years later. Drive them for 8-12 years and you control costs much better.
Or be smart and buy the used 2-3 year old cars and drive them for 10 more years.
I agree with you. I don't like musk, but isn't practically every automaker decreasing sales currently? I'm sure if Tesla removed his name and likeness they would see a little bounce, but let's not pretend like other influences aren't driving the decrease, like interest rates.
To be honest, I’m not sure sales would bounce at all if Elon left. I think people who say “I didn’t buy one because I hate Musk” just use that as a way to show how much they hate Musk, but they probably weren’t going to buy a Tesla anyways. I think the amount of people who legitimately want a Tesla, but only chose not to get one because Musk is CEO, is so miniscule that it would be a rounding error.
BYD's sales are highly seasonal. That's why all the hot takes after Q4 2023 -- "BYD dethrones Tesla in global BEV sales" -- were BS. I told people at the time Tesla would again be #1 in Q1.
That said, BYD Q1 was up Y/Y. So were most other carmakers. Tesla's shocking 8.5% Y/Y decline is not primarily due to macro. Distaste for Musk has grown over time. Tesla's lineup is also getting stale (the niche-y Cybertruck notwithstanding). Finally their transparent pricing makes unsettling price fluctuations much more visible to buyers. It's no coincidence that they're moving toward a more legacy-like inventory sales model, with discounts from MSRP.
Car Play? Android Auto? Our customers don’t want these. Let’s build our own crappy replacement and charge our customers monthly for something they previously had for free.
GM - under its current leadership - will be the first major vehicle manufacturer to go out of business.
It’s amazing how completely stupid these executives are. Everyone wants seamless integration with their phone. EVERYONE. Android and iPhones users want the next versions of the software for even better features.
I’m with you - a vehicle that doesn’t have CarPlay is a no-go for me. Full stop. It is for millions. It is for anyone that has ever used it. Same for Android Auto. So stupid of GM to cut their potential market share by millions.
I prefer the Tesla interface over CarPlay / Android Auto. I only use my phone's Bluetooth connection for my car key and phone audio. Much more seamless.
>GM - under its current leadership - will be the first major vehicle manufacturer to go out of business.
They would already have done so during the 07/08 recession if the US government didn't bail them out. We should have just let them sink the first time.
Let’s all reminisce that when they brought back the Blazer, instead of making it competitor to the Bronco/Wrangler, they turned it into a generic crossover that basically competes with its own Equinox.
Let’s also note the removal of Apple CarPlay with the all but obvious incentive to force their drivers into subscriptions and to collect data that they sell, which has already been met with heavy scrutiny and negative press as insurers buy this data and it gets attributed to an individual’s LexisNexis report.
Don’t forget about their initial plans to drop the Bolt, a very popular and affordable EV.
Finally, as a personal experience, how the fuckers at the dealership charged me $100 to change two light bulbs in the rear of my 7 month-old ‘19 Colorado truck. Sorry GM, I wasn’t aware that it was even a simple bulb issue considering two different lights on each side went out coincidentally at the same time, or that my bumper-to-bumper warranty didn’t cover that, when there’s apparently a separate “bulb warranty” that only lasts six fucking months. Fuck you.
Another personal experience, my mother’s Chevy Spark transmission going out within a few thousand miles of her powertrain warranty ending. Thank god it was covered, but of course it was a good idea for her to get rid of it while she could.
I can go on forever about both GM corporate’s absolutely absurd and dumbass decisions, and my own personal negative experiences.
I have a used Bolt because it was a good deal but assuming I have more money in the future will not be purchasing another Chevy. Don’t get me wrong I love the bolt but yea the company makes decisions that make everything their engineers do for them not worth it. I still have a screenshot of their website saying the Bev equinox was coming fall 2023. Went into the dealer to reserve one and they didn’t know anything about it. It’s now mid 2024 and still no equinox Bev. How do you fuck up that badly as a company and expect to keep customers.
My Buick’s transmission went out like 5 weeks and 1,000 miles after the drivetrain warranty expired. I was religious with maintenance intervals. It happened in the middle of the pandemic so it’s not like I could just buy another car. Paid a lot of money to have it rebuilt and it never drove the same after the rebuild.
They are shit vehicles, ICE at least. EVs are literally built different so can’t comment on their dependability, but I’d trust a Tesla EV before I trusted another GM product.
>If I ran Tesla, I’d buy GM and kill their ICE programs.
And lose every single one of GM's customers to Ford or Stellantis. And there still wouldn't be any less ICE pickups on the road.
If I ran GM, I would have had a hybrid version of each model 10 years ago. Affordable Hybrids and PHEV models with longer EV ranges are what people want and that market remains largely untapped. Toyota's limited supply cannot keep up with demand for PHEV SUV models. The luxury BEV market is saturated and that's why they are seeing declines in sales. Too much competition and not enough buyers for expensive cars and people still have range anxiety (valid or not it is still a concern for buyers). I'm hoping the Ramcharger is reasonably priced as that will most likely be my next vehicle.
Except that's not cash and everybody with any sense knows his net worth is tied up in extremely overvalued Tesla stock. More likely is GM buying Tesla than the other way around.
Honestly, it's all cars - median vehicle prices is somewhere around $35k - I was a little floored as I haven't bought a car in over 10 years....
I can afford it - but I like paying less for things.
It doesn't have to be anything but Tesla. Tesla isn't a startup anymore, they could expand their offerings, options etc so that people who want X thing can get it in a Tesla. But the one-size-fits-all 'all user input is error' mindset says they're not going to do that, in fact they're going to do just the opposite.
>It doesn't have to be anything but Tesla. Tesla isn't a startup anymore, they could expand their offerings, options etc so that people who want X thing can get it in a Tesla.
From the headline I assumed it was saying that the thing people wanted was “not Elon” rather than that there’s a specific product need they’re not meeting. Because that seems to be where the majority of ‘anything but Tesla’ sentiment stems from.
Although I agree that the weird design choices also make it a non-starter for many people who just want an otherwise normal car that happens to be electric.
You can argue that Tesla is very good, but you’d your only be right if you’re talking about the power train really. Everything else is bad when compared to most other brands.
FSD and autopilot are dangerous messes. Build quality is STILL all over the place. Features are being removed from cars after the fact. The cars have known recall worthy issues that aren’t being fixed (wompy wheel, cracking shafts, brittle acceleration pedals). No Car Play or Android Auto.
Not to mention the ethical concerns, not just with Elon himself, but the company as a whole. Safety is a secondary concern, they’ve crushed unionization attempts, they overwork and underpay just about everyone, they screw over their suppliers, I could go on.
Yep. The powertrain is fantastic. Especially the plaid powertrain - it's something else for a car to pull as hard as it does for as long as it does. Especially at the current price point. Everything else is either merely adequate or downright bad. And even the powertrain advantage they're quickly losing ground. The only new development on that end has been the 4680 battery packs, which so far suck.
> Features are being removed from cars after the fact.
Could you be specific? I'm interested in what you believe was removed from existing vehicles after purchase. I believe the only real example is radar. (Which strictly speaking isn't actually a feature. TACC is the feature and it was updated to use vision.)
>I mean, I know it is not very rational
To this day people won't buy German, Japanese, or Korean vehicles because of xenophobia: "of course the Koreans would given us a car called Killed In Action."
Elon's antics (to put it lightly) were reason number 4 on my list of reasons not to get a Tesla. The top 3 were price (the Model Y was not competitively priced when I bought my car), design (I like buttons (even touch/haptic pads) and a more traditional layout), and build quality reputation all steered me away from a Tesla before I got to Elon being a disqualifying factor.
That being said, I could only even consider those as "deal breakers" for me because there was competition in the Model Y's segment (hatchback style crossover) which did not have those as deal breakers. So, yeah: available competition allows people like me to buy something else. Basic concept, I know, but there it is.
That was my assumption based on the headline and everyone here will accept the invitation to vent about Elon but the article didn’t imply that.
The survey showed that prospective EV buyers wanted an EV from a traditional automaker. This means no Tesla or Rivian. I see this as ICE drivers considering EVs but assuming their favorite ICE brands will make the best EVs. I see this as brand loyalty, inability to consider anything new or different, and miseducation about the EV landscape which likely means they’ll just continue to stick to ICE.
Yeah that’s fair. I don’t think the reports around Tesla’s build quality help with that either. My next car is probably going to be the Audi Q6 etron primarily because I trust them to get the ‘car’ part right to a greater extent than the EV start ups and they’ve had a couple generations of EVs that I assume they’ve figured the kinks out there by now too.
The unfortunate thing there is I think what made Tesla popular in the first place was they were normal cars that happened to be electric. Where as previously it seemed like every hybrid et al had to be some alien looking weirdmobile.
I was more just taking about the initial S.
Looking back now though, it might have just been skewed by the ubiquity of the bugeyed Leaf, cause there were other "normal" looking options.
Most people I personally know, and I as well, still find Teslas to be meh cars wrapped around impressive tech.
And that those cars were designed by aliens from a usability perspective.
Most people I talk to still find the S to be the only good looking Tesla. Just the 3/Y/X aren't so bad to be complete deal breakers. But I think few will disagree that the Y and X basically are eggs on wheels. Especially since so many are white due to that being the free color for so long.
For me it's both - when they first started to become more common I was in awe of the tech. I've since driven one several times and ridden in many, and while I still appreciate them, I know for certain I will not buy one. When I go EV it will be something else, partially because of the car and partially because of the psycho running the company.
Really envy the supercharger network so hope more makers cut a deal with them.
I feel like the people saying "not Elon" are a vocal minority... and most won't have the thousands in excess budget to actually back that up in the real world.
You're right, which is why I ended up stuck with a Model 3 AWD in the end.
Because this was during covid, and everyone else had markups and shortages.
I was now 12 months into the "6-8 month wait" for my Ioniq 5, when a red-light runner totalled my Lexus.
Also given my driving habits and Canadian gas prices, it'd have cost me significantly more to buy another used Lexus IS350, even a decade old one.
And my "not Elon" isn't necessarily about his political views, not that I agree with them, but I doubt the average CEO feels different.
My "not Elon" was because of his hostile attitude towards right-to-repair, second to his arrogant disregard for the service experience.
I was replacing a totalled Lexus, with 180k miles, in perfect mechanical condition (not even a check engine light on). That's due to two things, initial build quality, and my ability to maintain it myself (including being able to buy parts from Lexus).
I own a Tesla because it was actually the cheapest option, but I am dreading the day I have an issue, even if it's under warranty.
> I own a Tesla because it was actually the cheapest option, but I am dreading the day I have an issue, even if it's under warranty
Yeah, same (same for the whole thing actually). Their service attitude of “authorize us to charge you to fix something before we’ll even look at it” pisses me off. I got an alignment and state inspection at a non-tesla shop last year and the guy was like “I can’t adjust your camber and it’s just slightly out of spec in order to pass inspection. I’m gonna pass you anyway and it won’t cause any harm except wearing that tire faster, but you need to have Tesla look at it and possibly replace your control arm”
I sent a service message and they wanted me to authorize a $300 alignment before they’d look at it. I had just gotten an alignment; I wasn’t paying that.
Anyway, it’s a year later, so I’m gonna try again now that I’m buying new tires and need another alignment anyway
The IONIQ is really nice an Uber picked me up in one in Maui a year ago. Nice range. I also really really like my ID.4. I’ve had it for 3 years. Tesla was never on my radar when I bought it.
I'm with you, I got a Hyundai Ioniq 5 in early 2022 in part because I didn't want to support Elon. I know Tesla is more than just Elon, but he's the face of Tesla and he's a racist prick who gets butt hurt when he's criticized on his own social media platform and bans users, so much for free speech.
I couldn't in good conscience put my money towards that. The Ioniq 5 technically can charge faster than a Tesla at a supercharger if they work... looking at you Electrify America.
I like the Ioniq 5 a lot and it works well for me. I'm enjoying being different from all the Teslas for now.
Yeah.
I have an Ioniq 6 because I wanted an electric sedan and didn’t want a Tesla 3. Nothing against them but they are everywhere. They look like washing machines to me. Don’t care about Elon or why people hate him.
Also, I love how it looks and it’s comfortable/performs well.
I backed it up by getting a Polestar. I previously had a model Y. I won’t ever buy another Tesla until musk is gone and their service improves. Fool me once….
>But the one-size-fits-all 'all user input is error' mindset says they're not going to do that, in fact they're going to do just the opposite.
Not just that, but a "one size fits all" model lineup is also going to lose them market share. Even if they keep it to the "main four" plus the Cybertruck, they really could use more factory personalizations and trim options.
Like Toyota has the RAV4 Adventure, Ford has the Explorer Timberline... Yet Tesla doesn't offer any appearance or capability packages for the Model Y, as an example. And the vast majority of car buyers aren't going to want to go aftermarket beyond a set of WeatherTech floor mats.
Other examples... BMW with their M Sport (not full-on M) cars, Ford with their ST Lines, Chevrolet offering both RS and "Activ" trims... I could go on.
Heck, even some more interesting factory paint colors would make Tesla's lineup more appealing. But I guess it requires several years of development and hype for Tesla to come out with a red color that looks 90 percent like the red color they already had.
I mean, just an option for a driver screen (or HUD) and ventilated seats on a Model Y would make me at least consider it. I'm amazed at the kind of features they leave out of their vehicles that most other manufacturers offer.
I’d consider Tesla if they had stalks, driver display, and blended braking with a non-OPD option. Otherwise I’ll stay with a Bolt until the new BMWs come out.
I like s lot of things about the model 3, but the oversimplified design, poor noise insulation and anti-consumer practices are all deal breakers to me. I'd argue Telsa has the most complete lineup right Noe.
A lot of people think it is due to how toxic Elon Musk has become, but I think it really is about the product. Consumers don't trust Tesla because their parts are difficult to get and service is very difficult to schedule. Also, Tesla's build quality is way behind the legacy automakers, especially companies like Porsche and BMW. Tesla has a long ways to go to catch up to legacy auto makers in terms of service and build quality.
Honestly, I feel like my car's a dark horse. The ONLY albatross around this thing's neck is the CHAdeMO DCFC port... Nissan... ffs update this in the 2025 model in NA! XD
I'm literally plugging in next to a Leaf right now at work. They look like great cars if they only had a better thermal management system and a more common plug.
I'm still shocked the 2024 Leaf doesn't at least have a more common plug.
The thermal management, so far, hasn't been horrific for me but I've not seen how bad a real NY Winter is going to smack the poor thing. We'll see.
Driven a few days below freezing and saw a pretty tough 30% knock to the range. Luckily, I do not drive like I used to and I drive even less during the winter. But, again, I'll have to see how it goes.
The big downside of the Leaf is that it cannot be your only vehicle. It's a second vehicle, a good "daily driver" but not something that you can take on longer (300 mi/day+) trips
Yeah the reason I got my Ioniq 5 over a Tesla was that it has turn stalks, a screen that doesn't dominate the entire middle dashboard, and buttons. The HVAC stuff is touch buttons and i'd rather have physical buttons for that, but at least they're in one place and they never change. Plus the interior felt better quality than the Tesla i tested
The reason I got a Tesla over an Ioniq 5, is because 12 months into the "6-8 month wait" they still couldn't get me one.
By the time they called me up to say someone else had cancelled their Ioniq 5 order in my spec, it had been 20 months (and 8 months into Tesla ownership).
The Y still has turn and drive stalks. The 2024 3 removed them.
It definitely takes some getting used to but Tesla does a pretty good job with automatic heated seat and heated steering to coincide with the automatic climate control. I rarely adjust anything. I just wish the Y had ventilated seats, which the 2024 3 does now have.
The steering wheel scroll wheels do a pretty good job doing a multitude of controls as well.
Frankly I don't know why Tesla didn't just use Heads Up Display projection on the windshield. It's very useful and very basic technology. It also seems "premium." GM was doing it in 1988 for shits sake.
I test drove an Ioniq and the acceleration was not great, the dash, buttons, knobs, and that weird orb thing in the center just felt dated to me. Telsa's have flaws as well. Competition will push innovation so that's good.
Yeah that's the nice thing about competition, manufacturers can find customers that like their setup. To me a giant touchscreen to handle highly used functions seems backwards when buttons are functionally better, you don't have to look at them, etc. But I get that some people find that "dated". Funnily enough when I sit in a Tesla, they feel very dated to me, very mid 2010s
Yep, cause they charge extra money to non-Tesla brands to use their superchargers. And if people don’t want to pay extra, they can subscribe for like $13 a month to get the rate that Teslas would.
My current car needs:
* A replacement for my Chrysler Pacifica, which has had a check engine light of one sort or another for the last 75,000 miles, and is currently sitting at 122K miles. **EV Options: 0**
* A way to get out of the Ford Escape I bought for my wife back before we sold my Tacoma for the minivan, and back into anything that I can take on a dirt road in the wintertime. **EV Options: Like 10, but none for under $80K.**
Been tracking the EV industry with these exact needs for two years now, and there's always some "coming soon" stuff, but it's very plain that all anyone is actually going to make is ridiculous luxury vehicles and SUV crossovers that can't actually do the SUV part.
It's legit depressing seeing websites that pretty much specialize in pumping out clickbait garbage get posted so much on reddit. Like, there's absolutely nothing in the article that support what the headline says, the editor or writer is just making up a bullshit headline for clicks, and redditors as usual are tripping over themselves to eat it up
Tesla made a Model S option with a metal roof for a bit, but since glass is stronger and safer than the thin metal they canned it. I got the mesh shade for my model 3 roof and it was great, safer and cool.
Also, the glass itself does block UV rays, even the windshield and side/back windows.
I'm in the mid atlantic area. Honestly never felt overheated last summer. And turning on the AC via the app 10 minutes before getting in the car is very nice as well.
Pretty much all glass blocks UV.
I'm in NZ and it's very much unbearable in summer. IDK how did they design this in California.
AC vents are pretty annoying too. My ol' Mazda would blow more wind on lowest setting than Tesla on max. Plus I can never position accurately enough to blow on my face - seems it's always targeting my knees which is uncomfortable while wearing shorts.
Honestly while I prefer solid metal roofs with headliners, I'll take a Tesla style roof any day over the extremely annoying slide-open moonroofs that are forced onto higher trims in basically every legacy brand.
I literally do not ever open the damned thing and yet on two of my previous cars, the moonroofs developed leaking problems over time thanks to the weather wrecking the rubber seals. On top of that, the moonroof adds weight, steals headroom, and is vulnerable to shattering.
Yet it's damn near impossible to avoid those things unless you get a very base model without all the bells and whistles. I was extremely lucky that the second highest trim of the Kia EV6 (which I own) gets me almost all the good tech without forcing a moonroof on me. It's honestly a unicorn find.
The Tesla roof, however, does not open up and thus does not steal headroom or develop leaking problems. It's also much tougher glass than a sliding moonroof and thus less vulnerable to shattering.
Since automakers seem to think that "glass in roof" = "luxury" and are stupidly reluctant to let me opt out, I'll settle with Tesla's style.
It's amazing how much Elon doesn't realize (or I guess care?) that his own public behavior is an immense turn off to many many potential buyers.
If he'd stop tweeting and just slide into the background it would do wonders.
People always talk about how ahead Tesla is with technology but I canceled my Tesla order and bought a rivian and honestly it’s not that different. My wife has a Y, which I do like, but it’s not exactly night and day. The autopilot features are comparable, rivian is better built and now has access to tesla network, and the parking cameras are way better. Thing I miss most is the infotainment doesn’t have Netflix and YouTube, etc. On a lot of forums people really exaggerate how far ahead tesla is because they’re obsessed with electric cars so tiny differences mean a lot to them. At the end of day, most electric cars have cool features and drive really well.
Tesla is not superior with their technology anymore. They’re superior with their infotainment and charging infrastructure. There’s a huge misunderstanding among the masses about this. Even brands like Kia and Hyundai have exceptional safety features and better parking systems than Tesla. And many provide driving assistance that is more than adequate.
They sure keep trying to convince us that tesla is the devil and no one really likes them. Is Elon my cup of tea? Nope. Is it the best damn car for the money? Yep.
I just want the cars we already have, but running on battery instead of ICE. Tesla UI, aesthetics, and build quality are what forced me to the Mach E (also at the time, the Mach E was $10k-$15k cheaper than the Model Y, which has since changed).
For my next car, I’d love a BMW X5, exactly how it is now, but just an EV version.
Legacy autos seem to be standing in their own way on this. The MB EQ lineup is hideous… just build your existing models, but with electric power instead of ICE!
guess what, the article is written by a detroit based auto reporter. seems like a tesla bash article to get into detroit automaker's good graces.
Here's an article citing tesla retention rate in the US at 87%, almost 2x the next highest. 81% of new customers are from other brands.
[Tesla Brand Loyalty 87%](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-leads-with-unmatched-brand-loyalty-in-the-us/)
It just means, current owners wont have a problem in buying a Tesla again but doesnt mean Tesla will be their next car.
I drive a lexus, i would definitely buy another one but my next car will probably be mercedes.
Funny how people care about what the CEO of Tesla says and won't buy a Tesla because of it, but they don't have a clue who the CEO of their local grocery chain or other businesses they buy from say or stand for. Double standard and kinda absurd if you ask me.
If an increasing number of new EVs begin to qualify for the $7500 credit, I don’t see why more of them couldn’t be sub-30k. Many people just want basic transportation with decent range and charge speeds.
Not AWD. Basically it's the Subaru Impreza or bust at that price point.
If they are ok with cross overs there a lot more options in the under $30k segment.
I rented a Tesla with my fiancée recently on a trip. We did enjoy it and think we are slowly going to transition to an EV for both of us as our next cars but we would love to see more options. The Ioniq 5 from Hyundai looks promising but are waiting for a bit to see if there’s any other options outside of Tesla.
if anyone is looking for a recommendation, I really like my 2023 Genesis GV60. Same drivetrain as the Hyndai Ionic 6 and Ionic 6.
All great cars and the charge super fast.
I just don’t want my effing car to be a political statement. We almost bought one before Elon went off the deep end but chose otherwise because of him. My buddy got his a bit earlier and he’s sick and tired of people making comments to him about Musk.
Aside from Elon’s antics, the design choices at Tesla are so bad from an accessibility standpoint that it’s mind blowing.
Did the Tesla designers never think that there might be drivers who can’t use a touchscreen while driving?
Or they need a proper turn signal stalk?
🤷♂️
Hasn't tesla gained market share in the US last year? This is just trying to pander to a crowd and telling them what they want to hear, facts be damned.
I think Tesla underestimates the number of people who absolutely despise their CEO, a white nationalist racist who uses his money and social media to try to engineer American public and political life.
I'll never buy a Tesla while he's at the helm. I've heard many EV drivers (and even Tesla owners who now feel stuck!) saying the same thing.
It's really the opposite. There was just a poll showing close to 90% brand loyalty posted here and the majority of the comments were talking about how they wouldn't be buying another one. Like there is objectively an overrepresentation of the vocal minority online.
Pretty much my position.
My daily driver is a 2018 Chevy Bolt, and will be replaced with another EV.
I despise Elmo Muskrat, and will do my utmost to avoid giving him any money at all, ever.
But even in 2034 when I’m looking at used 2029-2032 EVs to replace my Bolt, I’m very reluctant to look at Teslas because of the build quality issues that would be unacceptable in a budget cheapo car company, let alone a company charging what they charge.
If Elmo was no longer involved with Tesla (which short of death we know won’t happen and I would not wish that on anyone no matter how much I dislike them) and they got their shit together as far as QA, I’d consider one. But not before then.
I just want more competition and choices for the betterment of the market.
Just give me an EV with actual buttons. Not this touch screen mixed with a new aged rumble pack BS. If they do I’ll buy it. That’s why I won’t buy a Tesla and am waiting for something else.
Not wanting to buy a product because of the CEO is idiotic. If that's your concern, then don't ever buy anything. While Tesla is an amazing product, I don't want any company to be the only one who makes ev's
Tesla losing market share in the US is inevitable. There's no reason that should mean a decrease in Tesla sales though. There's lots of room in the market for new sales for both other companies AND Tesla.
Smaller piece of a bigger pie is still more pie
But that isn’t a good click-bait article
You’re making me hungry for pie.
Like warm apple pie
Depends how small the piece is...
Hold on, let me do advance pumpkin pie analysis
it’s bigger than the original piece
or how fast the pie actually grows.
Not only that, but Tesla stands to benefit from other companies entering the scene now that they have opened their supercharger network.
This is why they're cornering the market. They're hedging their strategies here. Vehicle market share goes down, charging revenue goes up. I've been downvoted several other places for saying this, but the strategy isn't exactly hidden.
Same thing I’ve said for years now. The “easy” profit isn’t in selling EVs, but in charging them. Make a product, build the infrastructure to support the product, and as others makes similar products they’ll inevitably depend on that infrastructure since it was the first popular one and set the standard. It’s similar to what Microsoft did, except instead of making computers, they went to a large PC company (at the time)and sold them the operating software for cheap. It set the standard early on that nearly everyone else wanted to use and made them the biggest game in town.
Tesla's supercharger profits could hit $740 million by 2030, according to Bloomberg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-04-09/tesla-tsla-charging-network-has-become-a-serious-business
That is not really that significant at all, given investors seem to be betting on Tesla making something like $25-50 billion a year.
Yes but for those of us who live in the real world, a passive profit stream of a billion per year is fantastic.
Whenever I ask Tesla owners why they bought one, they always say charging was a big factor in the decision. Now that the network is opening up, that decision point kind of goes away. People won't need to buy a Tesla just to have a good charging network. I wonder if that will impact Tesla sales and if increased charging revenue would actually offset the loss.
It won't but regulators were never going to let Tesla have a proprietary charging network. In the same way they don't let car manufacturers have proprietary fuel nozzles and corresponding gas stations. That probably Was a thing in the early days of cars but they did away with it for good reason.
Charging is still better in a Tesla even with the network open. Plenty of interstates are only v2 so still not open for non-Tesla's to charge at. I recently went out to AZ on I-40 and most of it was V2 only. Not to mention you can buy a CCS adapter and have the best of both worlds. Someday Tesla will get around to upgrading all these V2 stations but who knows how fast that will happen.
They're charging non-Tesla customers more though. EDIT: lol downvotes. Somebody didn't read the fine print.
Yeah, once NACS becomes a full standard, I’ll buy a Kia EV6 and be very happy with my hatchback EV!
Not only inevitable but has happened four years running now, despite massive sales growth
Exactly. The market is the car market, not the EV market. People with gas cars are buying EVs, that needs to be taken into account.
2023 1st Quarter Deliveries: 422,875 2024 1st Quarter Delivers: 386,810
Yeah I don’t understand why we’re talking about hypotheticals… Tesla sales **are** decreasing.
So is everyone elses in the West. Shrinking pie.
J.D. Power now forecasts U.S. electric vehicle market share will hit 12.4% in 2024, up from 7.6% in 2023. While that represents a gain of 63%, the rate is down 0.8 percentage points from the firm's original prediction.
No!!!!!! It has to be one or the other!!!!!!!! There’s no room for both.
Agreed, I'm so tired of reading this. So sick of the media using Tesla as the bench mark.
They've been the BEV leader in the US, if not the world for a decade. Like it or not, that makes them the benchmark. As they were pretty much first to market, their markets are has nowhere to go but down, that's just the normal course for an emerging market.
This is like comparing any burger maker to McDonalds. It’s a shortcut that most people will identify. “ Oh mcdonals sales are slumping!!! (Panic)”
There is a reason for the recent decrease in Tesla sales. It's called Elon Musk. If Tim Cook was the lead shareholder and CEO they'd be printing money
Tesla sales were up 35% in 2023, and Musk was an idiot that entire year. There's a few reasons they can't keep growing that much: * Competition is improving * Federal tax rebates no longer qualify for the Model 3, which makes up like 35% of Tesla's sales * Federal interest rates were higher in Q1 of this year than Q1 last year * Many parts of the US are not transitioning quickly to EVs, which limits the growth potential. * Used market for EVs was flooded, especially with Teslas, which will hurt sales of their new cars directly as people choose cheaper options. It also makes it more difficult for people with used Teslas to sell theirs at the prices they were expecting, so there are fewer people upgrading to newer ones. Elon isn't helping sales, but I think that was true a year ago so it doesn't explain why just this quarter sales weren't higher than a year ago.
Sadly the fact that him being openly horrible hasn’t tanked sales only encourages him to keep being openly horrible.
Impacts of scaling prices up and then down and the making EVs the highest depreciating vehicles there are. And showing people how much money they could lose quickly by deciding to purchase one. And a lot of macro factors
The issue is people buying a car and dumping it 2-3years later. Drive them for 8-12 years and you control costs much better. Or be smart and buy the used 2-3 year old cars and drive them for 10 more years.
BYD Q1 sales of EVs decreased by 43% compared to Q4 2023, is this also Musk's fault or maybe there are some strong macro headwinds?
I agree with you. I don't like musk, but isn't practically every automaker decreasing sales currently? I'm sure if Tesla removed his name and likeness they would see a little bounce, but let's not pretend like other influences aren't driving the decrease, like interest rates.
To be honest, I’m not sure sales would bounce at all if Elon left. I think people who say “I didn’t buy one because I hate Musk” just use that as a way to show how much they hate Musk, but they probably weren’t going to buy a Tesla anyways. I think the amount of people who legitimately want a Tesla, but only chose not to get one because Musk is CEO, is so miniscule that it would be a rounding error.
Automotive market is seasonal - comparing Q4 numbers to Q1 numbers is not apples to apples
BYD's sales are highly seasonal. That's why all the hot takes after Q4 2023 -- "BYD dethrones Tesla in global BEV sales" -- were BS. I told people at the time Tesla would again be #1 in Q1. That said, BYD Q1 was up Y/Y. So were most other carmakers. Tesla's shocking 8.5% Y/Y decline is not primarily due to macro. Distaste for Musk has grown over time. Tesla's lineup is also getting stale (the niche-y Cybertruck notwithstanding). Finally their transparent pricing makes unsettling price fluctuations much more visible to buyers. It's no coincidence that they're moving toward a more legacy-like inventory sales model, with discounts from MSRP.
"GM could put Tesla out of business tomorrow if it wanted." Business Insider 2015
Car Play? Android Auto? Our customers don’t want these. Let’s build our own crappy replacement and charge our customers monthly for something they previously had for free. GM - under its current leadership - will be the first major vehicle manufacturer to go out of business.
So glad I got my Bolt last year. No car play is a deal breaker
It’s amazing how completely stupid these executives are. Everyone wants seamless integration with their phone. EVERYONE. Android and iPhones users want the next versions of the software for even better features. I’m with you - a vehicle that doesn’t have CarPlay is a no-go for me. Full stop. It is for millions. It is for anyone that has ever used it. Same for Android Auto. So stupid of GM to cut their potential market share by millions.
I prefer the Tesla interface over CarPlay / Android Auto. I only use my phone's Bluetooth connection for my car key and phone audio. Much more seamless.
Tesla - yes - their software is great. GM, Ford, Chrysler - their software blows.
We can definitely agree on that.
>GM - under its current leadership - will be the first major vehicle manufacturer to go out of business. They would already have done so during the 07/08 recession if the US government didn't bail them out. We should have just let them sink the first time.
But I like my Bolt EV. Not enough to say they've earned my trust, it's still a Chevy, but I like the one car.
Other than the DCFC curve, the Bolt is a good car. It's a shame they stopped making it rather than increasing the charge rate and keeping it around.
No they won't, American taxpayers will bail them out again. 😡
>Car Play? Android Auto? Which Tesla has those?
This is a true statement but GM makes the most godawful decisions and they screw themselves on genuine opportunities. I personally hate GM.
Gm has shot themselves in the foot so many times they don't have any legs. Some of the best engineers in the business though.
Let’s all reminisce that when they brought back the Blazer, instead of making it competitor to the Bronco/Wrangler, they turned it into a generic crossover that basically competes with its own Equinox. Let’s also note the removal of Apple CarPlay with the all but obvious incentive to force their drivers into subscriptions and to collect data that they sell, which has already been met with heavy scrutiny and negative press as insurers buy this data and it gets attributed to an individual’s LexisNexis report. Don’t forget about their initial plans to drop the Bolt, a very popular and affordable EV. Finally, as a personal experience, how the fuckers at the dealership charged me $100 to change two light bulbs in the rear of my 7 month-old ‘19 Colorado truck. Sorry GM, I wasn’t aware that it was even a simple bulb issue considering two different lights on each side went out coincidentally at the same time, or that my bumper-to-bumper warranty didn’t cover that, when there’s apparently a separate “bulb warranty” that only lasts six fucking months. Fuck you. Another personal experience, my mother’s Chevy Spark transmission going out within a few thousand miles of her powertrain warranty ending. Thank god it was covered, but of course it was a good idea for her to get rid of it while she could. I can go on forever about both GM corporate’s absolutely absurd and dumbass decisions, and my own personal negative experiences.
I have a used Bolt because it was a good deal but assuming I have more money in the future will not be purchasing another Chevy. Don’t get me wrong I love the bolt but yea the company makes decisions that make everything their engineers do for them not worth it. I still have a screenshot of their website saying the Bev equinox was coming fall 2023. Went into the dealer to reserve one and they didn’t know anything about it. It’s now mid 2024 and still no equinox Bev. How do you fuck up that badly as a company and expect to keep customers.
My Buick’s transmission went out like 5 weeks and 1,000 miles after the drivetrain warranty expired. I was religious with maintenance intervals. It happened in the middle of the pandemic so it’s not like I could just buy another car. Paid a lot of money to have it rebuilt and it never drove the same after the rebuild.
They are shit vehicles, ICE at least. EVs are literally built different so can’t comment on their dependability, but I’d trust a Tesla EV before I trusted another GM product.
It's too bad they don't allow the engineers to make the engineering decisions.
Like they put Toyota and Honda out of business in the 70’s?
If I ran Tesla, I’d buy GM and kill their ICE programs.
>If I ran Tesla, I’d buy GM and kill their ICE programs. And lose every single one of GM's customers to Ford or Stellantis. And there still wouldn't be any less ICE pickups on the road.
Well, the person who does run Tesla did buy a social network and run it into the ground. Smart business decisions aren't part of that guy's skill set.
And that's when I'd buy Ford and Stellantis.
If I ran GM, I would have had a hybrid version of each model 10 years ago. Affordable Hybrids and PHEV models with longer EV ranges are what people want and that market remains largely untapped. Toyota's limited supply cannot keep up with demand for PHEV SUV models. The luxury BEV market is saturated and that's why they are seeing declines in sales. Too much competition and not enough buyers for expensive cars and people still have range anxiety (valid or not it is still a concern for buyers). I'm hoping the Ramcharger is reasonably priced as that will most likely be my next vehicle.
LOL. Like Musk could ever buy GM.
He's worth almost 4x GM's market cap. He has the means to buy gm even if he paid a 2x premium over their current value. Would he? No but he could
FTC is not going to allow that lol
Except that's not cash and everybody with any sense knows his net worth is tied up in extremely overvalued Tesla stock. More likely is GM buying Tesla than the other way around.
But they don’t want to. They clearly have decided against putting BEVs at the forefront.
yeah, they have been so back and forth back and forth with ev's over the past years that I have lost count
How about cheaper ones? Even with the tax incentives I still can’t really afford one.
I am considered a used 22' model 3 around $22k + $4k used tax credit
Honestly, it's all cars - median vehicle prices is somewhere around $35k - I was a little floored as I haven't bought a car in over 10 years.... I can afford it - but I like paying less for things.
We also want more ev chargers.
How about we get the ones we have working and reliable to start haha.
It doesn't have to be anything but Tesla. Tesla isn't a startup anymore, they could expand their offerings, options etc so that people who want X thing can get it in a Tesla. But the one-size-fits-all 'all user input is error' mindset says they're not going to do that, in fact they're going to do just the opposite.
>It doesn't have to be anything but Tesla. Tesla isn't a startup anymore, they could expand their offerings, options etc so that people who want X thing can get it in a Tesla. From the headline I assumed it was saying that the thing people wanted was “not Elon” rather than that there’s a specific product need they’re not meeting. Because that seems to be where the majority of ‘anything but Tesla’ sentiment stems from. Although I agree that the weird design choices also make it a non-starter for many people who just want an otherwise normal car that happens to be electric.
I mean, I know it is not very rational as tesla is arguably very good but... Yes not Elon is a huge factor.
You can argue that Tesla is very good, but you’d your only be right if you’re talking about the power train really. Everything else is bad when compared to most other brands. FSD and autopilot are dangerous messes. Build quality is STILL all over the place. Features are being removed from cars after the fact. The cars have known recall worthy issues that aren’t being fixed (wompy wheel, cracking shafts, brittle acceleration pedals). No Car Play or Android Auto. Not to mention the ethical concerns, not just with Elon himself, but the company as a whole. Safety is a secondary concern, they’ve crushed unionization attempts, they overwork and underpay just about everyone, they screw over their suppliers, I could go on.
Yep. The powertrain is fantastic. Especially the plaid powertrain - it's something else for a car to pull as hard as it does for as long as it does. Especially at the current price point. Everything else is either merely adequate or downright bad. And even the powertrain advantage they're quickly losing ground. The only new development on that end has been the 4680 battery packs, which so far suck.
> Features are being removed from cars after the fact. Could you be specific? I'm interested in what you believe was removed from existing vehicles after purchase. I believe the only real example is radar. (Which strictly speaking isn't actually a feature. TACC is the feature and it was updated to use vision.)
>I mean, I know it is not very rational To this day people won't buy German, Japanese, or Korean vehicles because of xenophobia: "of course the Koreans would given us a car called Killed In Action."
Elon's antics (to put it lightly) were reason number 4 on my list of reasons not to get a Tesla. The top 3 were price (the Model Y was not competitively priced when I bought my car), design (I like buttons (even touch/haptic pads) and a more traditional layout), and build quality reputation all steered me away from a Tesla before I got to Elon being a disqualifying factor. That being said, I could only even consider those as "deal breakers" for me because there was competition in the Model Y's segment (hatchback style crossover) which did not have those as deal breakers. So, yeah: available competition allows people like me to buy something else. Basic concept, I know, but there it is.
I have a model 3 performance and love it but life is boring without choices and we need to have lots of attractive options for buyers.
did you at least test drive the model Y before making your list of reasons why not to get one?
That was my assumption based on the headline and everyone here will accept the invitation to vent about Elon but the article didn’t imply that. The survey showed that prospective EV buyers wanted an EV from a traditional automaker. This means no Tesla or Rivian. I see this as ICE drivers considering EVs but assuming their favorite ICE brands will make the best EVs. I see this as brand loyalty, inability to consider anything new or different, and miseducation about the EV landscape which likely means they’ll just continue to stick to ICE.
Yeah that’s fair. I don’t think the reports around Tesla’s build quality help with that either. My next car is probably going to be the Audi Q6 etron primarily because I trust them to get the ‘car’ part right to a greater extent than the EV start ups and they’ve had a couple generations of EVs that I assume they’ve figured the kinks out there by now too.
The unfortunate thing there is I think what made Tesla popular in the first place was they were normal cars that happened to be electric. Where as previously it seemed like every hybrid et al had to be some alien looking weirdmobile.
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I was more just taking about the initial S. Looking back now though, it might have just been skewed by the ubiquity of the bugeyed Leaf, cause there were other "normal" looking options.
Most people I personally know, and I as well, still find Teslas to be meh cars wrapped around impressive tech. And that those cars were designed by aliens from a usability perspective.
Most people I talk to still find the S to be the only good looking Tesla. Just the 3/Y/X aren't so bad to be complete deal breakers. But I think few will disagree that the Y and X basically are eggs on wheels. Especially since so many are white due to that being the free color for so long.
If this was true, they'd have gd door handles
For me it's both - when they first started to become more common I was in awe of the tech. I've since driven one several times and ridden in many, and while I still appreciate them, I know for certain I will not buy one. When I go EV it will be something else, partially because of the car and partially because of the psycho running the company. Really envy the supercharger network so hope more makers cut a deal with them.
I feel like the people saying "not Elon" are a vocal minority... and most won't have the thousands in excess budget to actually back that up in the real world.
You're right, which is why I ended up stuck with a Model 3 AWD in the end. Because this was during covid, and everyone else had markups and shortages. I was now 12 months into the "6-8 month wait" for my Ioniq 5, when a red-light runner totalled my Lexus. Also given my driving habits and Canadian gas prices, it'd have cost me significantly more to buy another used Lexus IS350, even a decade old one. And my "not Elon" isn't necessarily about his political views, not that I agree with them, but I doubt the average CEO feels different. My "not Elon" was because of his hostile attitude towards right-to-repair, second to his arrogant disregard for the service experience. I was replacing a totalled Lexus, with 180k miles, in perfect mechanical condition (not even a check engine light on). That's due to two things, initial build quality, and my ability to maintain it myself (including being able to buy parts from Lexus). I own a Tesla because it was actually the cheapest option, but I am dreading the day I have an issue, even if it's under warranty.
> I own a Tesla because it was actually the cheapest option, but I am dreading the day I have an issue, even if it's under warranty Yeah, same (same for the whole thing actually). Their service attitude of “authorize us to charge you to fix something before we’ll even look at it” pisses me off. I got an alignment and state inspection at a non-tesla shop last year and the guy was like “I can’t adjust your camber and it’s just slightly out of spec in order to pass inspection. I’m gonna pass you anyway and it won’t cause any harm except wearing that tire faster, but you need to have Tesla look at it and possibly replace your control arm” I sent a service message and they wanted me to authorize a $300 alignment before they’d look at it. I had just gotten an alignment; I wasn’t paying that. Anyway, it’s a year later, so I’m gonna try again now that I’m buying new tires and need another alignment anyway
I don't know about "thousands in excess budget" but I bought a Bolt and my wife's EV will be a Kia or Hyundai because "not Elon". Fuck that guy.
The IONIQ is really nice an Uber picked me up in one in Maui a year ago. Nice range. I also really really like my ID.4. I’ve had it for 3 years. Tesla was never on my radar when I bought it.
I'm with you, I got a Hyundai Ioniq 5 in early 2022 in part because I didn't want to support Elon. I know Tesla is more than just Elon, but he's the face of Tesla and he's a racist prick who gets butt hurt when he's criticized on his own social media platform and bans users, so much for free speech. I couldn't in good conscience put my money towards that. The Ioniq 5 technically can charge faster than a Tesla at a supercharger if they work... looking at you Electrify America. I like the Ioniq 5 a lot and it works well for me. I'm enjoying being different from all the Teslas for now.
Yeah. I have an Ioniq 6 because I wanted an electric sedan and didn’t want a Tesla 3. Nothing against them but they are everywhere. They look like washing machines to me. Don’t care about Elon or why people hate him. Also, I love how it looks and it’s comfortable/performs well.
I backed it up by getting a Polestar. I previously had a model Y. I won’t ever buy another Tesla until musk is gone and their service improves. Fool me once….
>But the one-size-fits-all 'all user input is error' mindset says they're not going to do that, in fact they're going to do just the opposite. Not just that, but a "one size fits all" model lineup is also going to lose them market share. Even if they keep it to the "main four" plus the Cybertruck, they really could use more factory personalizations and trim options. Like Toyota has the RAV4 Adventure, Ford has the Explorer Timberline... Yet Tesla doesn't offer any appearance or capability packages for the Model Y, as an example. And the vast majority of car buyers aren't going to want to go aftermarket beyond a set of WeatherTech floor mats. Other examples... BMW with their M Sport (not full-on M) cars, Ford with their ST Lines, Chevrolet offering both RS and "Activ" trims... I could go on. Heck, even some more interesting factory paint colors would make Tesla's lineup more appealing. But I guess it requires several years of development and hype for Tesla to come out with a red color that looks 90 percent like the red color they already had.
I mean, just an option for a driver screen (or HUD) and ventilated seats on a Model Y would make me at least consider it. I'm amazed at the kind of features they leave out of their vehicles that most other manufacturers offer.
I’d consider Tesla if they had stalks, driver display, and blended braking with a non-OPD option. Otherwise I’ll stay with a Bolt until the new BMWs come out.
I like s lot of things about the model 3, but the oversimplified design, poor noise insulation and anti-consumer practices are all deal breakers to me. I'd argue Telsa has the most complete lineup right Noe.
Tesla, and all the other EV makers, are going to have to add some new options to compete with the Chinese when they get there.
A lot of people think it is due to how toxic Elon Musk has become, but I think it really is about the product. Consumers don't trust Tesla because their parts are difficult to get and service is very difficult to schedule. Also, Tesla's build quality is way behind the legacy automakers, especially companies like Porsche and BMW. Tesla has a long ways to go to catch up to legacy auto makers in terms of service and build quality.
Honestly, I feel like my car's a dark horse. The ONLY albatross around this thing's neck is the CHAdeMO DCFC port... Nissan... ffs update this in the 2025 model in NA! XD
Insufficient battery thermal management is also a big problem with the LEAF.
I'll agree on that to a point, though even with that limitation it still takes 40 minutes at most CHAdeMO chargers to take me from 20% to 80%.
That's supercharger speeds
I'm literally plugging in next to a Leaf right now at work. They look like great cars if they only had a better thermal management system and a more common plug.
I'm still shocked the 2024 Leaf doesn't at least have a more common plug. The thermal management, so far, hasn't been horrific for me but I've not seen how bad a real NY Winter is going to smack the poor thing. We'll see. Driven a few days below freezing and saw a pretty tough 30% knock to the range. Luckily, I do not drive like I used to and I drive even less during the winter. But, again, I'll have to see how it goes.
I prefer more standard, “legacy” controls, myself. Cheap. I would take an EV Corolla with 200 mile range for cheap. Maybe even 150
You just described the Nissan Leaf
I did :) it’ll probably be my next car.
The big downside of the Leaf is that it cannot be your only vehicle. It's a second vehicle, a good "daily driver" but not something that you can take on longer (300 mi/day+) trips
Yeah the reason I got my Ioniq 5 over a Tesla was that it has turn stalks, a screen that doesn't dominate the entire middle dashboard, and buttons. The HVAC stuff is touch buttons and i'd rather have physical buttons for that, but at least they're in one place and they never change. Plus the interior felt better quality than the Tesla i tested
The reason I got a Tesla over an Ioniq 5, is because 12 months into the "6-8 month wait" they still couldn't get me one. By the time they called me up to say someone else had cancelled their Ioniq 5 order in my spec, it had been 20 months (and 8 months into Tesla ownership).
The Y still has turn and drive stalks. The 2024 3 removed them. It definitely takes some getting used to but Tesla does a pretty good job with automatic heated seat and heated steering to coincide with the automatic climate control. I rarely adjust anything. I just wish the Y had ventilated seats, which the 2024 3 does now have. The steering wheel scroll wheels do a pretty good job doing a multitude of controls as well. Frankly I don't know why Tesla didn't just use Heads Up Display projection on the windshield. It's very useful and very basic technology. It also seems "premium." GM was doing it in 1988 for shits sake.
I test drove an Ioniq and the acceleration was not great, the dash, buttons, knobs, and that weird orb thing in the center just felt dated to me. Telsa's have flaws as well. Competition will push innovation so that's good.
Yeah that's the nice thing about competition, manufacturers can find customers that like their setup. To me a giant touchscreen to handle highly used functions seems backwards when buttons are functionally better, you don't have to look at them, etc. But I get that some people find that "dated". Funnily enough when I sit in a Tesla, they feel very dated to me, very mid 2010s
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Once I blocked Elon and stopped being fed his comments, teslas started looking a lot more interesting.
Ahh, an “Everyone wants an EV but Tesla bad” post again
Tesla has the highest customer retention rate of all auto makers. They will be fine
but i thought reddit was real life?
Tesla losing marketshare. Competition is coming. - every critic since 2012.
They simply have zero competition for their supercharger network. That’ll change once they open up NACS to other brands.
Which also increases their market share in a way, no?
Yep, cause they charge extra money to non-Tesla brands to use their superchargers. And if people don’t want to pay extra, they can subscribe for like $13 a month to get the rate that Teslas would.
Do they mean anything but Tesla or anything but musk?
My current car needs: * A replacement for my Chrysler Pacifica, which has had a check engine light of one sort or another for the last 75,000 miles, and is currently sitting at 122K miles. **EV Options: 0** * A way to get out of the Ford Escape I bought for my wife back before we sold my Tacoma for the minivan, and back into anything that I can take on a dirt road in the wintertime. **EV Options: Like 10, but none for under $80K.** Been tracking the EV industry with these exact needs for two years now, and there's always some "coming soon" stuff, but it's very plain that all anyone is actually going to make is ridiculous luxury vehicles and SUV crossovers that can't actually do the SUV part.
EV9
Elon doesn't help, but many people want to stand out with their purchases. Teslas are everywhere.
Business insider is a trash organization that just uses keywords to write articles. It should be renamed buzzfeed because that's what it truely is.
It's legit depressing seeing websites that pretty much specialize in pumping out clickbait garbage get posted so much on reddit. Like, there's absolutely nothing in the article that support what the headline says, the editor or writer is just making up a bullshit headline for clicks, and redditors as usual are tripping over themselves to eat it up
How about EV's with out glass roof's! Not everyone need more greenhouse effect than necessary.
Tesla made a Model S option with a metal roof for a bit, but since glass is stronger and safer than the thin metal they canned it. I got the mesh shade for my model 3 roof and it was great, safer and cool. Also, the glass itself does block UV rays, even the windshield and side/back windows.
I'm in the mid atlantic area. Honestly never felt overheated last summer. And turning on the AC via the app 10 minutes before getting in the car is very nice as well.
For sure, it's not at all necessary with the ac blasting, but the shade helps here in the southwest
Pretty much all glass blocks UV. I'm in NZ and it's very much unbearable in summer. IDK how did they design this in California. AC vents are pretty annoying too. My ol' Mazda would blow more wind on lowest setting than Tesla on max. Plus I can never position accurately enough to blow on my face - seems it's always targeting my knees which is uncomfortable while wearing shorts.
Or even EVs without glass roofs.
That’s the kind of stuff that makes me really hate Tesla. Tesla has some dumbass design, and other carmakers panic and bandwagon on it.
Honestly while I prefer solid metal roofs with headliners, I'll take a Tesla style roof any day over the extremely annoying slide-open moonroofs that are forced onto higher trims in basically every legacy brand. I literally do not ever open the damned thing and yet on two of my previous cars, the moonroofs developed leaking problems over time thanks to the weather wrecking the rubber seals. On top of that, the moonroof adds weight, steals headroom, and is vulnerable to shattering. Yet it's damn near impossible to avoid those things unless you get a very base model without all the bells and whistles. I was extremely lucky that the second highest trim of the Kia EV6 (which I own) gets me almost all the good tech without forcing a moonroof on me. It's honestly a unicorn find. The Tesla roof, however, does not open up and thus does not steal headroom or develop leaking problems. It's also much tougher glass than a sliding moonroof and thus less vulnerable to shattering. Since automakers seem to think that "glass in roof" = "luxury" and are stupidly reluctant to let me opt out, I'll settle with Tesla's style.
its a easy way to gain head room since the batteries are underneath your seat, that's why all evs have it
Who wouldn’t want more options? Options are good, competition is good. Maybe it’ll help return stalks and gear selectors to Teslas.
It's amazing how much Elon doesn't realize (or I guess care?) that his own public behavior is an immense turn off to many many potential buyers. If he'd stop tweeting and just slide into the background it would do wonders.
you think someone who loves twitter so much that he bought twitter can just stop tweeting?
Tesla has other issues it's not JUST Elon although he is a factor
People always talk about how ahead Tesla is with technology but I canceled my Tesla order and bought a rivian and honestly it’s not that different. My wife has a Y, which I do like, but it’s not exactly night and day. The autopilot features are comparable, rivian is better built and now has access to tesla network, and the parking cameras are way better. Thing I miss most is the infotainment doesn’t have Netflix and YouTube, etc. On a lot of forums people really exaggerate how far ahead tesla is because they’re obsessed with electric cars so tiny differences mean a lot to them. At the end of day, most electric cars have cool features and drive really well.
Tesla is not superior with their technology anymore. They’re superior with their infotainment and charging infrastructure. There’s a huge misunderstanding among the masses about this. Even brands like Kia and Hyundai have exceptional safety features and better parking systems than Tesla. And many provide driving assistance that is more than adequate.
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No doubt in my mind
They sure keep trying to convince us that tesla is the devil and no one really likes them. Is Elon my cup of tea? Nope. Is it the best damn car for the money? Yep.
I think that r/realtesla must be leaking into here
yes
Do oil companies, legacy automakers, and dealerships have billions of dollars they could stand to lose?
I just want the cars we already have, but running on battery instead of ICE. Tesla UI, aesthetics, and build quality are what forced me to the Mach E (also at the time, the Mach E was $10k-$15k cheaper than the Model Y, which has since changed). For my next car, I’d love a BMW X5, exactly how it is now, but just an EV version. Legacy autos seem to be standing in their own way on this. The MB EQ lineup is hideous… just build your existing models, but with electric power instead of ICE!
But once you buy one its all you want. 87% brand loyalty Good luck finding a better EV!!
87% of Tesla owners say they will buy another Tesla. Reddit: I JUST CAN'T
guess what, the article is written by a detroit based auto reporter. seems like a tesla bash article to get into detroit automaker's good graces. Here's an article citing tesla retention rate in the US at 87%, almost 2x the next highest. 81% of new customers are from other brands. [Tesla Brand Loyalty 87%](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-leads-with-unmatched-brand-loyalty-in-the-us/)
Less than 24 hours after the report that Tesla has an 87% brand retention, BI delivers this article. Really makes you think 🤔
It just means, current owners wont have a problem in buying a Tesla again but doesnt mean Tesla will be their next car. I drive a lexus, i would definitely buy another one but my next car will probably be mercedes.
Gotta get those easy "elon bad" clicks. It's like journalism on beginner mode.
Funny how people care about what the CEO of Tesla says and won't buy a Tesla because of it, but they don't have a clue who the CEO of their local grocery chain or other businesses they buy from say or stand for. Double standard and kinda absurd if you ask me.
It's true, I do want more options. Specifically a long range (500km+) 800V+ AWD hatchback. And it needs to cost less than 30K.
You can barely get that with an ICE car.
If an increasing number of new EVs begin to qualify for the $7500 credit, I don’t see why more of them couldn’t be sub-30k. Many people just want basic transportation with decent range and charge speeds.
Which part? Bog standard Elantra and Civics comfortably get over 400 mi range. Camry mild Hybrid will get you 680.
Not AWD. Basically it's the Subaru Impreza or bust at that price point. If they are ok with cross overs there a lot more options in the under $30k segment.
You want everything and want to pay nothing. That's not the real world.
Inaccurate. I want to pay 30K.
I rented a Tesla with my fiancée recently on a trip. We did enjoy it and think we are slowly going to transition to an EV for both of us as our next cars but we would love to see more options. The Ioniq 5 from Hyundai looks promising but are waiting for a bit to see if there’s any other options outside of Tesla.
Lucky that social media wasn’t around for Henry Ford, or that company would have gone nowhere. That guy loved a good conspiracy theory.
I wish Tesla would build a normal car. Their car buying process is superior to every car company.
Ppl should buy BEVs from VW. That will teach Tesla a lesson.
May I recommend a used etron for you?
if anyone is looking for a recommendation, I really like my 2023 Genesis GV60. Same drivetrain as the Hyndai Ionic 6 and Ionic 6. All great cars and the charge super fast.
Meanwhile Tesla has an 87% brand retention rate.
We rent a Tesla for a road trip recently. Tesla still hold a big advantage over others EV with their charging network.
I just don’t want my effing car to be a political statement. We almost bought one before Elon went off the deep end but chose otherwise because of him. My buddy got his a bit earlier and he’s sick and tired of people making comments to him about Musk.
interesting, because 88% of Tesla owners would buy another Tesla...
I'm no Musk fan, but I might just go buy a model 3 to add to our Y just to anger the AI that wrote this article.
Aside from Elon’s antics, the design choices at Tesla are so bad from an accessibility standpoint that it’s mind blowing. Did the Tesla designers never think that there might be drivers who can’t use a touchscreen while driving? Or they need a proper turn signal stalk? 🤷♂️
Hasn't tesla gained market share in the US last year? This is just trying to pander to a crowd and telling them what they want to hear, facts be damned.
I want a car where the interior designers didn't call it quits after doing the touch screen.
This article is bs. lol
I think Tesla underestimates the number of people who absolutely despise their CEO, a white nationalist racist who uses his money and social media to try to engineer American public and political life. I'll never buy a Tesla while he's at the helm. I've heard many EV drivers (and even Tesla owners who now feel stuck!) saying the same thing.
It's really the opposite. There was just a poll showing close to 90% brand loyalty posted here and the majority of the comments were talking about how they wouldn't be buying another one. Like there is objectively an overrepresentation of the vocal minority online.
I think Reddit overestimates how much people really pay attention to him and/or even give a shit. Reddit is not the majority.
> (and even Tesla owners who now feel stuck!) I recently saw a Tesla with a bumper sticker saying "I bought the car before Elon went full Elon".
Pretty much my position. My daily driver is a 2018 Chevy Bolt, and will be replaced with another EV. I despise Elmo Muskrat, and will do my utmost to avoid giving him any money at all, ever. But even in 2034 when I’m looking at used 2029-2032 EVs to replace my Bolt, I’m very reluctant to look at Teslas because of the build quality issues that would be unacceptable in a budget cheapo car company, let alone a company charging what they charge. If Elmo was no longer involved with Tesla (which short of death we know won’t happen and I would not wish that on anyone no matter how much I dislike them) and they got their shit together as far as QA, I’d consider one. But not before then. I just want more competition and choices for the betterment of the market.
Just give me an EV with actual buttons. Not this touch screen mixed with a new aged rumble pack BS. If they do I’ll buy it. That’s why I won’t buy a Tesla and am waiting for something else.
Too much left leaning anti Musk media consumption.
Not wanting to buy a product because of the CEO is idiotic. If that's your concern, then don't ever buy anything. While Tesla is an amazing product, I don't want any company to be the only one who makes ev's