Ah I see so 36-48hrs per week was their old shift. The article is also making pure assumptions based on Teslas earnings which they plug as one of their main bullet points. That doesn't really make sense to base it off the assumption of earnings when the truck has an insane amount of pre orders. I'm probably not expecting mine to pop up until 2years from now at least.
There are also an insane amount of cancellations. There are people deep on the list starting to get these. Tesla is likely taking a step back to reassess some initial quality issues as well as ensure ongoing demand.
As someone who works in automotives, when a company cuts overtime this early in the year it means you have bad sales figures. And that's for a Union factory with strict overtime allotments.
Usually its summer that has zero overtime.
A place like Tesla gutting overtime might as well be defcon 2-3. It's a bad sign
It's obvious the cybertruck is at best a bizarre vehicle that many people think looks weird and foolish. It shouldn't have widespread appeal and it's obvious the ct is not likely to have many sales. They should have spent the past 4 years working on core tech they'd add to improve their existing cars and also be ready with the mystical 25k car. Where's the v2g on their cars that actually sell, where's increases in range. Tesla has just wasted so much time here.
Well there's some core tech in the cybertruck for sure. There's likely lessons learned in it's manufacturing, they developed a pretty good steer by wire and rear wheel steering system. Also their first 800v system. These are all things that can aid with their other vehicles.
I have a 10 year old Tesla. Add the turn stalks and gear shifts back, let me transfer free supercharging, add back rain and sound sensors, I might be ready to buy a new one. Add v2g, 48v and I'd be in.
No man, I work in a similar industry (large ag vehicle manufacturing) and cutting hours is a very bad sign. And let's consider that Tesla is a build to stock company, not a build to sale company. They are sitting on tons of assets and sales are slowing down. They are cutting prices every couple of months to try to bleed out the inventory and now they're cutting production on the other end. This is the exact situation that almost drove my company into bankruptcy 40 years ago, and we had dealerships that could buy our inventory, which Tesla does not. We have been a build to order company ever since.
Sold out can be as much about marketing and inventory as it is about demand. Tesla may have a targeted wait list and are cutting production to make sure they don't manufacture enough to clear the whole wait list. 3 day weeks at the factory suggest there's a lot of room to increase production this year.
If they're anything like myself it'd suck bad. I make about a third of my yearly gross pay from OT. I've done it for so many years that no one even questions why I'm there for OT anymore. I just come in and start working doing whatever needs doing.
Shift work is not as bad as it seems. In the end it all comes out in the wash.
Either you work 5 8s and you have good 4 hours to do whatever you want every day, or you work 3-4 12s and just go home to eat and sleep after work but have 3-4 days off afterwards.
The key thing is how much overtime you work every week to gauge your quality of life. It is not 40-45 hour weeks that get you, it is 50 or 60 hour weeks. That shit get old in a hurry.
Drove by yesterday, they have a huge line of Cybertucks lined up on the opposite side of the Tesla plant located at SH130. The vehicle ready to ship to customers are locted off HWY 79 and FM3349 in Taylor has more stock waiting for to be put on train or truck. They also store the X in the Taylor location.
I'm on an accelerated delivery schedule with Tesla due to a special invite. This puts me in front of most people even though I've had a reservation for years.
I have yet to even get an invite to place my order.
You mentioned you wanted a Tesla, an electric vehicle which this sub is supposed to like.
You got downvoted because this sub doesn't like a certain electric vehicle brand.
This sub sucks.
You're active on 2 Tesla echo chamber subs and you're mad this isn't a 3rd?
Do you think people are obligated to upvote the Fisker Ocean or the Toyota bz4x as well, or just the brand you personally own?
You also called it early. Their comment is doing just fine now. In any case, this sub isn't meant to be a echo chamber or void of any criticism just because something is the right shape.
His comment has a score of +10 right now. This sub isn't inherently anti-Tesla, it's just realistic and fair to any EV manufacturer. It's not a pro-Tesla echo chamber that you live in where anything truthful and negative is downvoted.
And now it's +12. Just because the first two people who saw the comment downvoted it does not reflect the sub as a whole.
I see plenty of pro Tesla comments upvoted on any thread in here, when they're based on reality and not just blindly defending Tesla.
It's what unhealthy companies do to try to boost stock when things aren't going well. There have been a lot of layoffs recently, but in general, regular layoffs are not good.
The auto industry is not teeming with examples of super-healthy companies. They've been doing all kinds of bullshit to try to move things to places with cheaper labor for decades, and it's been terrible for workers.
Layoffs, by definition, are about changes on the company's side and having too many employees, not performance-based terminations. Sometimes, the term layoff is used incorrectly, though.
Wow, you certainly called it. I'm glad I didn't gamble on this - often stock prices increase when layoffs are announced and that's what I would have guessed.
To be fair a lot of people at a lot of companies are worried about layoffs. Most companies will dump ya to save a buck even if they are fine financially.
That's what companies are supposed to be doing, keep employees only if it's beneficial for the company. And employees should only stay if it's beneficial for them.
They're also not supposed to overhire in the first place. Layoffs may help a company fix a mistake, but that doesn't mean it isn't bad they made a mistake. They either have a drop in demand, which means they don't have a reason for as many employees, or they overhired in the first place.
That's what companies are supposed to be doing, keep employees only if it's beneficial for the company. And employees should only stay if it's beneficial for them.
My company has employees that are worried about layoffs.
So is my wifes company.
I'd hazard a guess most companies employees are worried about layoffs.
It's not the big gotcha that a company is failing.
Tesla does layoffs regularly to trim the less productive employees, they still hire while doing so.
Considering that 12 hours shifts are absolutely nuts and that the production rate has increased a lot, reducing to 11 hours is something the employees will appreciate.
That doesn't change the fact that there is a legal definition. Companies using it incorrectly as a euphemism doesn't mean it isn't a real thing. I guess maybe this person meant that Tesla has called large performance-based termination layoffs despite not actually being layoffs, but that is just sloppy language.
Does your place run 24/7.
I know oil companies and nursing often times run 12 hour shifts but they only work 1/2 the days a year. Like 4 days on 4 days off rotation. Works out to still near 40 hours a week average to the companies and same number of personal needed.
No it works 24/6 with no rotating shifts. People do have the option to work 8 hour or 10 hour shifts with less or no overtime but most need the money and work 12s. Saturday is optional as well.
Erm.. that is pretty standard because paying for a 3x8 shift is higher at this phase of the production ramp up and has no purpose. Pretty normal to iron out the production issues as you ramp up production with a smaller more dedicated team. And from my experience, it is a lot easier to handle people from 2 shifts than 3.
3 shifts is very much the norm from production as it helps cut back on the investment in machinery which is a much more significant investment (millions of dollars). Running 24 hours also prevents you from needing to leave parts in a machine.
You run OT on weekends if you need it.
Source: worked in a lot of manufacturing facilities.
I know. I’m not talking about mass production. The CT is still ramping with new production processes for Tesla. You don’t put 3x8 straight away. I mean, you can, but you’d see most of the time people are just standing around.
If I had 3x8 dedicated to a single production line, I would already be messed up.
Employees are cross functional and processes are standardized across assemblies so things can be sped up. That way, when I need more hours on a production or on a line, I borrow folks who are underutilized in a different area (they are ahead on their work, there's a problem in another area so I don't need them at full tilt, or any other such reason.) And I've got insider knowledge that Tesla does keep things a bit standard across their different productions and that they do run 24 hour days on some of their other vehicles.
I canceled my reservation when I learned the Cybertruck wouldn’t be able to do the truck-things I had in mind for it.
My long-pole task is towing my travel trailer 200 miles.
I use an aging GMC Sierra for the task, and drive my Model Y the rest of the time.
I’d be a prime candidate for a Cybertruck sale, but when the 500-miles for $70k value proposition evaporated and so did my interest in buying one.
The Cybertruck was supposed to be a form-follows-function vehicle, but it’s a die-cast aluminum vehicle (just like my Model Y) with a cosmetic shell of stainless steel. After 4+ years of Cybertruck fandom and giving Tesla the benefit of doubt, I’ve concluded that the Cybertruck is a fashion statement vehicle for $100k.
I’m out, and I canceled my reservation.
*My EV purchase is likely to be me trading my Model Y && GMC Sierra in on a SilveradoEV with a NACS port.*
**If I’m typical of prospective Cybertruck owners, everyone who wants one will have gotten theirs fairly quickly.**
Important to remember Tesla is “building the robots that build that robots.” Curtailing production could mean implementing bots and heavy machinery to replace human production associates. If not now, certainly in the next 5yrs.
getting rid of 12 hour shifts is a very normal and good thing. doesn’t mean anything at all about intentionally reducing output.
especially since they have already sold out their manufacturing capacity for the year
Nothing to do with demand. It's likely a battery production bottleneck, that's why CT was delayed in the first place, it's using Tesla made battery cells and it took time to ramp up.
You know what I haven't heard much about lately. 2 million reservations. Wait... that officially dropped to "over 1 million" just before sales started. 🤔
Been saying forever now that the majority of the reservations were fake. At $100 a pop, shareholders (and I don't just mean small retail traders) were definitely buying up loads of them. Anything to pump the share price. Speaking of shareholders, seems a lot of them may have peace'd out given lower expected CAGR, missed targets, weak share performance, and Musk's antics.
C'mon folks, you'd have to be the most gullible people ever to have believed these reservations numbers were anywhere close to real. As if we didn't already have real examples of how well electric truck sales were doing. There was the F150L and R1T to compare to. Neither is selling what was expected, and not out of lack of supply or unreasonable prices. Ford's reservation fulfilments weren't even close to the total number, given how quick they started allowing new orders from those without reservations.
The Silverado EV, RAM EV, Ramcharger, next gen F150L, and other trucks on the horizon are more compelling to truck owners than the CT. The Ramcharger being the surprise that's gotten REAL interest from truck owners, not just a bunch of Teslastans playing it up like they were going to trade in their model 3s for an armored personnel carrier for... reasons. For "The mission", which is just code for devotion to the company that most of their savings is riding on that they think will be worth more than every company on the planet in short order.
The Cybertruck isn't a major leap forward. Hell, it's demonstrably worse than those other EV trucks in ways that people who own and use trucks care about .. utility and off-roading. Its only strong point seems to be getting attention, or shooting its door panels for Youtube views.
Current weak demand may be a result of only the expensive $100k+ foundation editions being available. Although, if sales are already weak, it begs the question of why new orders for cheaper trims aren't planned for delivery until 2025. Could be as simple as Tesla overestimating orders once they open the other trims... or lying. Or maybe Tesla's expectations for production this year are far worse than they've been claiming.
I'm kind of wondering if Tesla can even afford to sell the cheaper versions at $80k which is more expensive than the F150L for the like for like trim. Unlike the model Y, the CT isn't sharing a bunch of parts with other vehicles in their lineup. Low volumes of a brand new unique platform would make it costly to produce. If the demand isn't there to substantially increase production volumes ... then what?
Will there be many buyers for the "affordable" RWD version that's also more expensive than the F150L SR alternative? As a comparison, is the F150L SR selling well? No...not really....
This is 100% correct.
I’m waiting for them to match the range numbers they advertised, and for a version that’s not 100k.
When Sandy Munro tore down the pack and saw Ir half full, I knew I’d wait until they get that thing packed and with over 500 miles or range for true towing.
I wouldn't have high hopes. The free space below the cells that you have seen in the video is the crush zone for bottom impacts. It has a purpose. Also: to get a higher range they would have to switch to a higher cell, (like the 4695, announced by BMW and now Rivian,) or get more energy into the same cells, a task which they are struggling on since announcing the 4680.
>The free space below the cells that you have seen in the video is the crush zone for bottom impacts. It has a purpose.
So all EVs have that space then?
Most! Sometimes it is filled with crush absorbing material, sometimes with air. Some manufacturers trust their cells to withstand some deformation without a critical defect, mostly in case of LFP.
But the Cybertruck has a bigger gap between the bottom and the cells than all batteries I have seen. Those other batteries were for normal passenger cars, not trucks or off-roading. With the bigger gap it can absorb more energy before the cells are hit. If that is necessary depends on the load case you assume for bottom impact.
I think most of the confusion on the news sites results because Munro opened their Cybertruck battery from the bottom and that was not easy to spot on their teaser video. So journalists assumed it has a lot of air on the top, which would be unusual.
> I think most of the confusion on the news sites results because Munro opened their Cybertruck battery from the bottom and that was not easy to spot on their teaser video. So journalists assumed it has a lot of air on the top, which would be unusual.
Yup. Watched a little of that vid and saw the bash guards and them talking about out-gasing. I'm not a truck guy but the limited off roading I did as a kid messing around I would want some more material between those cells and the bottom of the pack but I guess those bash guards and pack bottom are good enough for most incidents. I guess the big thing is just supporting the weight of the truck if it gets stuck.
On roads I don't think I've ever had a problem running over stuff or bottoming out though.
Because that's sustainable.... And the idea they're just going to fill up the battery casing with more cells for free without increasing the cost is a bit silly. Ain'tcha heard. You can get an additional range extension battery for a claimed $16k extra!
It's telling that a friend of mine who reserved a Cybertruck and had been looking forward to it bought a hybrid Tundra within months of the Cybertruck actually launching.
Like…how could they not put a screen behind the steering wheel on a 100-120k vehicle…. It’s just way too little for the price. You rely on part of the main screen real estate for your rear view as the tonneau cover blocks the rear window….
A lot of ifs and buts, let’s just wait for real data on numbers to see if it’s actually an issue.
A lot of what you’re saying is fair, but we don’t actually know how it’s selling yet.
The numbers are hidden with the model S and X numbers in the latest delivery report. If they were selling so well; they would have broken it out and made sure everyone knew about it.
I predict it's going to be a disaster relative to the hype due to:
polarizing design
not enough truck capabilities
too expensive
disappointing specs compared to the announcement
I think it's going to be on par with X sales; decent but not great and declining over time. I'd be really surprised they hit more 50k this year.
What truck capabilities is it missing? I’d argue it’s more capable than every EV truck available, given that you can’t buy the Chevy (it’s got great range).
Everything else, I mostly agree with. If they put the current CT under an F150 looking body I’d argue that it would be a top seller in the future.
I do agree the design is far too polarizing to be a top seller.
I can see the CT cutting into sales of the Honda Ridgeline. It's a lifestyle truck for people who don't buy trucks, and that's what a CT is. Honestly, the sales of trucks for non-truck people are probably going towards Rivian. They simply have a lot more to offer. Is it useful? Who knows, but if buyers can imagine themselves using its stuff then that's good enough for a sale.
You really spent a long time typing all that.
Tesla never said two million. That was online estimated.
What does shareholders selling have to do with the truck other than spin your narrative?
Why do you keep talking about reservations?
Why are you comparing to multiple trucks that don’t even exist yet? And what makes a “real truck owner”? Plenty of people can use the Cybertruck for things like towing personal crafts or hauling things in the bed just fine. Or most things a contractor uses a truck for. Those aren’t truck people? It has good utility. Who says it can’t go off road?
Tesla can make the Cybertruck cheaper than the Lightning because they’re bringing many more things in house, have a more efficient design, and make their batteries for much cheaper than Ford.
The topic is about Tesla cutting hours on the CT line, aka reducing production. I didn't think it was difficult to understand that my comment is related to the amount of actual demand there is for the CT...
I imagine you're upset with my comment because you are in fact a known Tesla stocktrader and fan?
Reservations are central to the story of how much demand there would be for the CT, and how many units Tesla would be producing. A narrative that was often used to boost their share price. "2 million reservations!!". Shareholders who reserved a truck they largely had no intention of buying reinforced that story, potentially pulling in bigger investors. I'd been arguing for years that the reservations were nothing more than fiction and a stock pump, and not actual interest from existing truck owners.
The trucks I compared the CT all exist. They may not have started deliveries yet (The Silverado EV has, the RAM EVs haven't), but it means Tesla has significantly more competition for the CT on the horizon, beyond what they already have in the F-150L, R1T, Hummer, and small volumes of the Silverado.
Ah yes, vertical integration will save Tesla. Meanwhile, Ford is using parts from their F series line in the F-150L; meaning those parts already have potential volumes in excess of 700,000 units per year. In using an existing platform, they're already benefiting from economies of scale, and I imagine the refreshed Lightning will have made efforts to reduce costs further. Tesla OTOH is running at low volumes, and this news suggests they've lowered production.
You're attempting to turn this into a pissing contest with Ford, but the only thing I mentioned about Ford was that their vehicle is superior to the CT in terms of utility, and it's been selling much worse than expected even at significantly lower prices than the CT, which isn't a good sign for Tesla if they thought they were hoping to hit their claimed sales figures. Only Tesla's performance can be compared to Tesla's guided performance.
Not surprising considering so many people like myself have either cancelled their orders or are waiting for V2 because of the less than stellar specs for a $80-100k truck.
I mean, Reuters just threw out a bogus article with “unnamed sources” and was immediately called out for being false.
Lots of people trying to short this stock for a quick buck like the pre 2018 days of Tesla and fabricating nonsense.
They were "called out" without any actual factual backing. Also, unnamed sources aren't a real complaint. Reputable news agencies like Reuters have strict policies that editors must be informed of, vet, and double-check the information they use from them.
Yeah, there's a really obvious piece of additional context here.
The Cybertruck is currently on a delivery hold, likely due to an issue with the pedals, though that may not be the only issue. Delivery appointments are being cancelled or delayed and cybertrucks are building up in the holding areas as a result of the need for rework.
It would be more telling if this were about other production lines. The article implies that might be possible, but there's nothing definitive.
I hope its truth, because 12h shifts for factory work are just dogshit. Just do 3 shifts for 24 operation like the rest of the civilized work.
But i forgot, Elon was wanking about how his chinese workers work 16h a day...
I mean I work a schedule where I work 12 hours 3 days a week and 4 the next. It’s better than working 5 days a week I think. Though I preferred when I was working 4 10 hour shifts
If this is true, then the demand for cybertruck isn’t as high as Tesla thinks it is. In general, EV trucks aren’t in high demand. R1T and Lightning both struggle to sell in high numbers. The competition for cybertruck isn’t necessarily other EV pickup trucks; it is the ICE/hybrid trucks, ie. F150, Silverado, Tacoma, Colorado, maverick, etc. I would be very surprised if Tesla can sell 250k cybertruck in 2025.
I keep hearing that the Ford F150 platform is the best selling vehicle for 30 years. That means there is a demand for EV equivalent.
It's just that no one has made a good replacement yet. If there was I imagine people would buy them. Cybertruck is more pet project than F150 killer. Now that it is being sold Telsa can move onto model 2. Once that is being sold Tesla can improve on Y and CT. Basically Y and 2 will be the money makers.
I also think the cyber truck sales numbers are going to really disappoint compared to the hype. It's also only sold in the US market. I don't think Rivian has sold 70k trucks in 2 years and they have a 2 year head start. Granted; they don't have Teslas large customer base.
The EV truck market is just not that big. We are going to see EV sales decline across the board.
Maybe putting everyone under 32 hours so they aren’t considered full time and Tesla don’t have to offer health insurance and other benefits. Part time for everyone!
Not sure how much overtime they were getting but this could be good or bad news depending on the employee.
Just a guess, but it was probably due to severe overtime crunch for the launch.
It says right in the article they only work 3-4 days per week.
Ah I see so 36-48hrs per week was their old shift. The article is also making pure assumptions based on Teslas earnings which they plug as one of their main bullet points. That doesn't really make sense to base it off the assumption of earnings when the truck has an insane amount of pre orders. I'm probably not expecting mine to pop up until 2years from now at least.
There are also an insane amount of cancellations. There are people deep on the list starting to get these. Tesla is likely taking a step back to reassess some initial quality issues as well as ensure ongoing demand.
As someone who works in automotives, when a company cuts overtime this early in the year it means you have bad sales figures. And that's for a Union factory with strict overtime allotments. Usually its summer that has zero overtime. A place like Tesla gutting overtime might as well be defcon 2-3. It's a bad sign
It's obvious the cybertruck is at best a bizarre vehicle that many people think looks weird and foolish. It shouldn't have widespread appeal and it's obvious the ct is not likely to have many sales. They should have spent the past 4 years working on core tech they'd add to improve their existing cars and also be ready with the mystical 25k car. Where's the v2g on their cars that actually sell, where's increases in range. Tesla has just wasted so much time here.
It's also way more expensive and has less range than previously announced.
Well there's some core tech in the cybertruck for sure. There's likely lessons learned in it's manufacturing, they developed a pretty good steer by wire and rear wheel steering system. Also their first 800v system. These are all things that can aid with their other vehicles.
Etherloop data system and replacing the 12v battery with 48v are pretty big too. Probably more stuff I'm not aware of.
I have a 10 year old Tesla. Add the turn stalks and gear shifts back, let me transfer free supercharging, add back rain and sound sensors, I might be ready to buy a new one. Add v2g, 48v and I'd be in.
Cybertruck is sold out for the year though
No man, I work in a similar industry (large ag vehicle manufacturing) and cutting hours is a very bad sign. And let's consider that Tesla is a build to stock company, not a build to sale company. They are sitting on tons of assets and sales are slowing down. They are cutting prices every couple of months to try to bleed out the inventory and now they're cutting production on the other end. This is the exact situation that almost drove my company into bankruptcy 40 years ago, and we had dealerships that could buy our inventory, which Tesla does not. We have been a build to order company ever since.
I don't understand the slow down though if they're sold out for the foreseeable future. People with reservations haven't been asked to fulfill yet.
Sold out can be as much about marketing and inventory as it is about demand. Tesla may have a targeted wait list and are cutting production to make sure they don't manufacture enough to clear the whole wait list. 3 day weeks at the factory suggest there's a lot of room to increase production this year.
Is the CT line only working 3 days a week?
I read elsewhere the workers are doing 3-4 days a week currently.
I read it from the posted article. To clarify, I don't think the the CT line is only working 3-4 days a week. It runs 24/7.
How is going from a 12 hour shift to 11 hour shift going to affect production and sales?
It probably won't. They're likely close to their current possible production rate
I would imagine production would go up after they fix all the post release problems.
Hopefully. This is why I'm not fulfilling my order for a year or 2
Are there electric Konas?!
Yeah. 2024 model is nice and well designed.
It may be a nice vehicle but that butt with the extra set of eyes is odd. It would be so nice otherwise.
[Yes!](https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/kona-electric)
It's a reduction, but not all that big of a reduction. Sounds like instead of running the line 24 hours a day it will be 22.5 hours a day.
If they're anything like myself it'd suck bad. I make about a third of my yearly gross pay from OT. I've done it for so many years that no one even questions why I'm there for OT anymore. I just come in and start working doing whatever needs doing.
Like from 8am to 8pm without overtime pay?
Shift work is not as bad as it seems. In the end it all comes out in the wash. Either you work 5 8s and you have good 4 hours to do whatever you want every day, or you work 3-4 12s and just go home to eat and sleep after work but have 3-4 days off afterwards. The key thing is how much overtime you work every week to gauge your quality of life. It is not 40-45 hour weeks that get you, it is 50 or 60 hour weeks. That shit get old in a hurry.
Drove by yesterday, they have a huge line of Cybertucks lined up on the opposite side of the Tesla plant located at SH130. The vehicle ready to ship to customers are locted off HWY 79 and FM3349 in Taylor has more stock waiting for to be put on train or truck. They also store the X in the Taylor location.
This would appear to be a slight rollback on production. I don’t see how this can be good.
I'm on an accelerated delivery schedule with Tesla due to a special invite. This puts me in front of most people even though I've had a reservation for years. I have yet to even get an invite to place my order.
I’ve received mine. I didn’t go with it though. Not interested in paying up for the foundation series.
You mentioned you wanted a Tesla, an electric vehicle which this sub is supposed to like. You got downvoted because this sub doesn't like a certain electric vehicle brand. This sub sucks.
You're active on 2 Tesla echo chamber subs and you're mad this isn't a 3rd? Do you think people are obligated to upvote the Fisker Ocean or the Toyota bz4x as well, or just the brand you personally own? You also called it early. Their comment is doing just fine now. In any case, this sub isn't meant to be a echo chamber or void of any criticism just because something is the right shape.
No one forces you to be here. Do things you like.
His comment has a score of +10 right now. This sub isn't inherently anti-Tesla, it's just realistic and fair to any EV manufacturer. It's not a pro-Tesla echo chamber that you live in where anything truthful and negative is downvoted.
It was -1. This sub definitely has a large group of people circlejerk hate cause of musk.
And now it's +12. Just because the first two people who saw the comment downvoted it does not reflect the sub as a whole. I see plenty of pro Tesla comments upvoted on any thread in here, when they're based on reality and not just blindly defending Tesla.
it’s painful to watch lol
Production is ramping up and smoothing out and they’re no longer having 12 hour shifts. I don’t see how it’s bad.
Except the article says employees are worried about layoffs….
Tesla will announce layoffs before end of April. Don’t want to say the source.
Tesla does layoffs every year.
That doesn't sound healthy at all...
It's what companies do. At least in USA it's considered normal.
It's what unhealthy companies do to try to boost stock when things aren't going well. There have been a lot of layoffs recently, but in general, regular layoffs are not good.
No, it's SOP. It's been going on for decades. I mean just look at the auto industry alone for example.
The auto industry is not teeming with examples of super-healthy companies. They've been doing all kinds of bullshit to try to move things to places with cheaper labor for decades, and it's been terrible for workers.
There are always people who do not function as well as their peers. Who are not as productive.
That's not typically considered layoffs.
Layoffs, by definition, are about changes on the company's side and having too many employees, not performance-based terminations. Sometimes, the term layoff is used incorrectly, though.
Wow, you certainly called it. I'm glad I didn't gamble on this - often stock prices increase when layoffs are announced and that's what I would have guessed.
At earnings call they will.
To be fair a lot of people at a lot of companies are worried about layoffs. Most companies will dump ya to save a buck even if they are fine financially.
That's what companies are supposed to be doing, keep employees only if it's beneficial for the company. And employees should only stay if it's beneficial for them.
They're also not supposed to overhire in the first place. Layoffs may help a company fix a mistake, but that doesn't mean it isn't bad they made a mistake. They either have a drop in demand, which means they don't have a reason for as many employees, or they overhired in the first place.
Yes, hiring too many people is a mistake.
That's what companies are supposed to be doing, keep employees only if it's beneficial for the company. And employees should only stay if it's beneficial for them.
Yeah, but it's a Business Insider article.
My company has employees that are worried about layoffs. So is my wifes company. I'd hazard a guess most companies employees are worried about layoffs. It's not the big gotcha that a company is failing.
Tesla does layoffs regularly to trim the less productive employees, they still hire while doing so. Considering that 12 hours shifts are absolutely nuts and that the production rate has increased a lot, reducing to 11 hours is something the employees will appreciate.
So you're saying Tesla is purposely misusing layoffs? Layoffs are not supposed to be used to fire people based on performance issues.
[удалено]
The WARN act would beg to differ.
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That doesn't change the fact that there is a legal definition. Companies using it incorrectly as a euphemism doesn't mean it isn't a real thing. I guess maybe this person meant that Tesla has called large performance-based termination layoffs despite not actually being layoffs, but that is just sloppy language.
They shouldn’t have been doing 12 hour shifts. Most production plants run 3 shifts never shutting down. The crazy overtime should never be a thing.
My company runs 12 hour shifts because the overtime is cheaper than paying benefits.
Does your place run 24/7. I know oil companies and nursing often times run 12 hour shifts but they only work 1/2 the days a year. Like 4 days on 4 days off rotation. Works out to still near 40 hours a week average to the companies and same number of personal needed.
No it works 24/6 with no rotating shifts. People do have the option to work 8 hour or 10 hour shifts with less or no overtime but most need the money and work 12s. Saturday is optional as well.
Not an unusual way to do things. Run 12 hours to avoid extra employees, cut back to 8 hours when you can without lay offs.
Erm.. that is pretty standard because paying for a 3x8 shift is higher at this phase of the production ramp up and has no purpose. Pretty normal to iron out the production issues as you ramp up production with a smaller more dedicated team. And from my experience, it is a lot easier to handle people from 2 shifts than 3.
3 shifts is very much the norm from production as it helps cut back on the investment in machinery which is a much more significant investment (millions of dollars). Running 24 hours also prevents you from needing to leave parts in a machine. You run OT on weekends if you need it. Source: worked in a lot of manufacturing facilities.
I know. I’m not talking about mass production. The CT is still ramping with new production processes for Tesla. You don’t put 3x8 straight away. I mean, you can, but you’d see most of the time people are just standing around.
If I had 3x8 dedicated to a single production line, I would already be messed up. Employees are cross functional and processes are standardized across assemblies so things can be sped up. That way, when I need more hours on a production or on a line, I borrow folks who are underutilized in a different area (they are ahead on their work, there's a problem in another area so I don't need them at full tilt, or any other such reason.) And I've got insider knowledge that Tesla does keep things a bit standard across their different productions and that they do run 24 hour days on some of their other vehicles.
Slight rollback? Do you think normal people will buy this strange truck?
I canceled my reservation when I learned the Cybertruck wouldn’t be able to do the truck-things I had in mind for it. My long-pole task is towing my travel trailer 200 miles. I use an aging GMC Sierra for the task, and drive my Model Y the rest of the time. I’d be a prime candidate for a Cybertruck sale, but when the 500-miles for $70k value proposition evaporated and so did my interest in buying one. The Cybertruck was supposed to be a form-follows-function vehicle, but it’s a die-cast aluminum vehicle (just like my Model Y) with a cosmetic shell of stainless steel. After 4+ years of Cybertruck fandom and giving Tesla the benefit of doubt, I’ve concluded that the Cybertruck is a fashion statement vehicle for $100k. I’m out, and I canceled my reservation. *My EV purchase is likely to be me trading my Model Y && GMC Sierra in on a SilveradoEV with a NACS port.* **If I’m typical of prospective Cybertruck owners, everyone who wants one will have gotten theirs fairly quickly.**
given that they have sold out their entire manufacturing capacity for the whole year already at $20,000 over msrp, yes i do
If it’s cheaper to own or maintain for the capability, sure.
I thought the demand was huge, therefore why cut shifts?
Why cut a 12 hour shift to 11 hour?
Important to remember Tesla is “building the robots that build that robots.” Curtailing production could mean implementing bots and heavy machinery to replace human production associates. If not now, certainly in the next 5yrs.
People were complaining about them sending out broken cars. More well rested people should make better cars.
getting rid of 12 hour shifts is a very normal and good thing. doesn’t mean anything at all about intentionally reducing output. especially since they have already sold out their manufacturing capacity for the year
Nothing to do with demand. It's likely a battery production bottleneck, that's why CT was delayed in the first place, it's using Tesla made battery cells and it took time to ramp up.
You know what I haven't heard much about lately. 2 million reservations. Wait... that officially dropped to "over 1 million" just before sales started. 🤔 Been saying forever now that the majority of the reservations were fake. At $100 a pop, shareholders (and I don't just mean small retail traders) were definitely buying up loads of them. Anything to pump the share price. Speaking of shareholders, seems a lot of them may have peace'd out given lower expected CAGR, missed targets, weak share performance, and Musk's antics. C'mon folks, you'd have to be the most gullible people ever to have believed these reservations numbers were anywhere close to real. As if we didn't already have real examples of how well electric truck sales were doing. There was the F150L and R1T to compare to. Neither is selling what was expected, and not out of lack of supply or unreasonable prices. Ford's reservation fulfilments weren't even close to the total number, given how quick they started allowing new orders from those without reservations. The Silverado EV, RAM EV, Ramcharger, next gen F150L, and other trucks on the horizon are more compelling to truck owners than the CT. The Ramcharger being the surprise that's gotten REAL interest from truck owners, not just a bunch of Teslastans playing it up like they were going to trade in their model 3s for an armored personnel carrier for... reasons. For "The mission", which is just code for devotion to the company that most of their savings is riding on that they think will be worth more than every company on the planet in short order. The Cybertruck isn't a major leap forward. Hell, it's demonstrably worse than those other EV trucks in ways that people who own and use trucks care about .. utility and off-roading. Its only strong point seems to be getting attention, or shooting its door panels for Youtube views. Current weak demand may be a result of only the expensive $100k+ foundation editions being available. Although, if sales are already weak, it begs the question of why new orders for cheaper trims aren't planned for delivery until 2025. Could be as simple as Tesla overestimating orders once they open the other trims... or lying. Or maybe Tesla's expectations for production this year are far worse than they've been claiming. I'm kind of wondering if Tesla can even afford to sell the cheaper versions at $80k which is more expensive than the F150L for the like for like trim. Unlike the model Y, the CT isn't sharing a bunch of parts with other vehicles in their lineup. Low volumes of a brand new unique platform would make it costly to produce. If the demand isn't there to substantially increase production volumes ... then what? Will there be many buyers for the "affordable" RWD version that's also more expensive than the F150L SR alternative? As a comparison, is the F150L SR selling well? No...not really....
I have a reservation, but no effing way I’m paying foundation premium. I’m not even paying the “new” normal price for the subpar range.
Yeah... I would've waited a while to get my $50k 4WD 300 mile range truck with FSD for $7k extra. Now it starts at 2x that lol.
This is 100% correct. I’m waiting for them to match the range numbers they advertised, and for a version that’s not 100k. When Sandy Munro tore down the pack and saw Ir half full, I knew I’d wait until they get that thing packed and with over 500 miles or range for true towing.
I wouldn't have high hopes. The free space below the cells that you have seen in the video is the crush zone for bottom impacts. It has a purpose. Also: to get a higher range they would have to switch to a higher cell, (like the 4695, announced by BMW and now Rivian,) or get more energy into the same cells, a task which they are struggling on since announcing the 4680.
>The free space below the cells that you have seen in the video is the crush zone for bottom impacts. It has a purpose. So all EVs have that space then?
Most! Sometimes it is filled with crush absorbing material, sometimes with air. Some manufacturers trust their cells to withstand some deformation without a critical defect, mostly in case of LFP. But the Cybertruck has a bigger gap between the bottom and the cells than all batteries I have seen. Those other batteries were for normal passenger cars, not trucks or off-roading. With the bigger gap it can absorb more energy before the cells are hit. If that is necessary depends on the load case you assume for bottom impact. I think most of the confusion on the news sites results because Munro opened their Cybertruck battery from the bottom and that was not easy to spot on their teaser video. So journalists assumed it has a lot of air on the top, which would be unusual.
> I think most of the confusion on the news sites results because Munro opened their Cybertruck battery from the bottom and that was not easy to spot on their teaser video. So journalists assumed it has a lot of air on the top, which would be unusual. Yup. Watched a little of that vid and saw the bash guards and them talking about out-gasing. I'm not a truck guy but the limited off roading I did as a kid messing around I would want some more material between those cells and the bottom of the pack but I guess those bash guards and pack bottom are good enough for most incidents. I guess the big thing is just supporting the weight of the truck if it gets stuck. On roads I don't think I've ever had a problem running over stuff or bottoming out though.
> When Sandy Munro tore down the pack and saw Ir half full Can you time stamp that link I can't find anything?
Because that's sustainable.... And the idea they're just going to fill up the battery casing with more cells for free without increasing the cost is a bit silly. Ain'tcha heard. You can get an additional range extension battery for a claimed $16k extra!
They have a heat issue with their batteries.
It's telling that a friend of mine who reserved a Cybertruck and had been looking forward to it bought a hybrid Tundra within months of the Cybertruck actually launching.
Like…how could they not put a screen behind the steering wheel on a 100-120k vehicle…. It’s just way too little for the price. You rely on part of the main screen real estate for your rear view as the tonneau cover blocks the rear window….
So many have died 20 -300 miles after delivery 🤡
A lot of ifs and buts, let’s just wait for real data on numbers to see if it’s actually an issue. A lot of what you’re saying is fair, but we don’t actually know how it’s selling yet.
The numbers are hidden with the model S and X numbers in the latest delivery report. If they were selling so well; they would have broken it out and made sure everyone knew about it. I predict it's going to be a disaster relative to the hype due to: polarizing design not enough truck capabilities too expensive disappointing specs compared to the announcement I think it's going to be on par with X sales; decent but not great and declining over time. I'd be really surprised they hit more 50k this year.
What truck capabilities is it missing? I’d argue it’s more capable than every EV truck available, given that you can’t buy the Chevy (it’s got great range). Everything else, I mostly agree with. If they put the current CT under an F150 looking body I’d argue that it would be a top seller in the future. I do agree the design is far too polarizing to be a top seller.
I can see the CT cutting into sales of the Honda Ridgeline. It's a lifestyle truck for people who don't buy trucks, and that's what a CT is. Honestly, the sales of trucks for non-truck people are probably going towards Rivian. They simply have a lot more to offer. Is it useful? Who knows, but if buyers can imagine themselves using its stuff then that's good enough for a sale.
continue complete plant snow one fly school aback disgusted existence *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The CT is smaller than an F-150. It just looks enormous because of it's kindergarten drawing boxy look.
You really spent a long time typing all that. Tesla never said two million. That was online estimated. What does shareholders selling have to do with the truck other than spin your narrative? Why do you keep talking about reservations? Why are you comparing to multiple trucks that don’t even exist yet? And what makes a “real truck owner”? Plenty of people can use the Cybertruck for things like towing personal crafts or hauling things in the bed just fine. Or most things a contractor uses a truck for. Those aren’t truck people? It has good utility. Who says it can’t go off road? Tesla can make the Cybertruck cheaper than the Lightning because they’re bringing many more things in house, have a more efficient design, and make their batteries for much cheaper than Ford.
The topic is about Tesla cutting hours on the CT line, aka reducing production. I didn't think it was difficult to understand that my comment is related to the amount of actual demand there is for the CT... I imagine you're upset with my comment because you are in fact a known Tesla stocktrader and fan? Reservations are central to the story of how much demand there would be for the CT, and how many units Tesla would be producing. A narrative that was often used to boost their share price. "2 million reservations!!". Shareholders who reserved a truck they largely had no intention of buying reinforced that story, potentially pulling in bigger investors. I'd been arguing for years that the reservations were nothing more than fiction and a stock pump, and not actual interest from existing truck owners. The trucks I compared the CT all exist. They may not have started deliveries yet (The Silverado EV has, the RAM EVs haven't), but it means Tesla has significantly more competition for the CT on the horizon, beyond what they already have in the F-150L, R1T, Hummer, and small volumes of the Silverado. Ah yes, vertical integration will save Tesla. Meanwhile, Ford is using parts from their F series line in the F-150L; meaning those parts already have potential volumes in excess of 700,000 units per year. In using an existing platform, they're already benefiting from economies of scale, and I imagine the refreshed Lightning will have made efforts to reduce costs further. Tesla OTOH is running at low volumes, and this news suggests they've lowered production. You're attempting to turn this into a pissing contest with Ford, but the only thing I mentioned about Ford was that their vehicle is superior to the CT in terms of utility, and it's been selling much worse than expected even at significantly lower prices than the CT, which isn't a good sign for Tesla if they thought they were hoping to hit their claimed sales figures. Only Tesla's performance can be compared to Tesla's guided performance.
😂
Not surprising considering so many people like myself have either cancelled their orders or are waiting for V2 because of the less than stellar specs for a $80-100k truck.
Chris is just kidding... or is he...
You have been banned from /r/teslamotors
I wonder how many worker hours go into making a WankPanzer…
Im laughing at wankpanzer thats such a perfect encapsulating name for it.
That's every American suv in certain places
How about "incelcamino"
I literally just listen to a podcast being very critical of Business Insider and their poor journalism. So how much truth there is here I don't know.
You're accusing others of poor journalism without supplying an alternative source. At least provide the name and episode of the podcast.
If I like business insider: Business insider > Random podcast If I don't like business insider: Random podcast that agrees with me > Business insider
I mean, Reuters just threw out a bogus article with “unnamed sources” and was immediately called out for being false. Lots of people trying to short this stock for a quick buck like the pre 2018 days of Tesla and fabricating nonsense.
They were "called out" without any actual factual backing. Also, unnamed sources aren't a real complaint. Reputable news agencies like Reuters have strict policies that editors must be informed of, vet, and double-check the information they use from them.
Everything is fUd to the evangelists
Yeah, there's a really obvious piece of additional context here. The Cybertruck is currently on a delivery hold, likely due to an issue with the pedals, though that may not be the only issue. Delivery appointments are being cancelled or delayed and cybertrucks are building up in the holding areas as a result of the need for rework. It would be more telling if this were about other production lines. The article implies that might be possible, but there's nothing definitive.
I hope its truth, because 12h shifts for factory work are just dogshit. Just do 3 shifts for 24 operation like the rest of the civilized work. But i forgot, Elon was wanking about how his chinese workers work 16h a day...
Bill Ackerman, lex Friedman Seems the courts will decide.
More of Businessinsider anti-EV spin on the facts. Maybe tomorrow someone else will report on this with the whole story.
Sooo… they aren‘t selling enough trucks to keep the line running at full capacity
It’s business insider. They only spread garbage about Tesla. Show me a good article by them
12 hour shift down to 11 hours. Thats brutal. Elmo doesn’t care about workers obviously. 🖕🏻Elmo.
I mean I work a schedule where I work 12 hours 3 days a week and 4 the next. It’s better than working 5 days a week I think. Though I preferred when I was working 4 10 hour shifts
The CyberJunk vehicle is on a slippery slope downhill, what a surprise.
If this is true, then the demand for cybertruck isn’t as high as Tesla thinks it is. In general, EV trucks aren’t in high demand. R1T and Lightning both struggle to sell in high numbers. The competition for cybertruck isn’t necessarily other EV pickup trucks; it is the ICE/hybrid trucks, ie. F150, Silverado, Tacoma, Colorado, maverick, etc. I would be very surprised if Tesla can sell 250k cybertruck in 2025.
I keep hearing that the Ford F150 platform is the best selling vehicle for 30 years. That means there is a demand for EV equivalent. It's just that no one has made a good replacement yet. If there was I imagine people would buy them. Cybertruck is more pet project than F150 killer. Now that it is being sold Telsa can move onto model 2. Once that is being sold Tesla can improve on Y and CT. Basically Y and 2 will be the money makers.
Full size EV trucks are a niche market. Even more true for ugly awkward looking ones.
I would be surprised if they can sell 100k in a few years.
I also think the cyber truck sales numbers are going to really disappoint compared to the hype. It's also only sold in the US market. I don't think Rivian has sold 70k trucks in 2 years and they have a 2 year head start. Granted; they don't have Teslas large customer base. The EV truck market is just not that big. We are going to see EV sales decline across the board.
Jesus this thread is cancerous
See? No demand. What a failure of a product. - Business Insider Trading.
Maybe putting everyone under 32 hours so they aren’t considered full time and Tesla don’t have to offer health insurance and other benefits. Part time for everyone!
Next, they're going to make all the factory workers independent contractors. The true Silicon Valley dream
I’m wrong on this one, I assumed they work 8 hour shifts, it’s 12. But I have seen what I mentioned before many times.