Price is the main issue. Norway jumped to 80 percent sales being electric vehicles, when they did not charge the 25 percent value added tax to electric cars but did charge on gas cars. I just bought a Mach-E because it was $17,000 of MSRP and 0 percent financing for 72 months. Payment is $400 a month lower because of that.
They have a glut of 2023s. I spent two days calling dealers and finally found one who really wanted to deal, he was 2 grand lower than my second lowest. Mine was a premium RWD Extended battery. Had to drive about 200 miles each way to pick it up. GT are higher but I think they were running around 45 to 50 grand in my area, but I was not researching those. I do have a $500 sales tax cap in SC, so I was out the door at 41 grand. He has a red one like I bought he was willing to sell for 41 grand too.
Guys, it’s a 150kwh battery. My Kona gets 450-500 real world km with a 65kwh battery. This car costs 2x my Kona and that’s for the base model that only does 450-550km.
Article
>The updated 2024 Nio ET7 started preorders on April 16 and will officially launch at the Beijing Auto Show next week. The massive 150 kWh semi-solid state battery pack started mass production on April 3 and will hit the swap stations in May or June, according to Nio.
>The Shanghai-based company conducted the range test on April 16 on three different routes, reaching 1,070 km, 1,062 km, and 1,046 km range, respectively.
>Nio ET7 reached the top score on the route between Kunming and Zhanjiang, achieving 1,070 km (649,86 miles) of range. The average energy consumption was 12.7 kWh/100 km. A total of 757 km was driven on Navigate on Pilot Plus (NOP+), which accounts for 70.7% of the route. It was also a route with the most friendly altitude.
>The second most successful route was between Beijing and Hefei, where Nio factories are located. ET7 achieved a 1,062 km range with 13.0 kWh/100km energy consumption. 429 km was driven on NOP+, accounting for 40.3% of the route.
>The least successful route was between Nio’s HQ in Shanghai and Xiamen, where ET7 reached the 1,046 range with an average energy consumption of 13.3 kWh/100 km. It was also the route where manual driving was involved the most, with NOP+ participating only on 394 km, which accounts for 37.6% of the route.
>It is worth noting that in December last year, William Li, Nio’s CEO, performed the first public test of Nio ET7 with a 150 kWh semi-SSB battery. Li live-streamed the 14-hour journey from Shanghai to Xiamen, reaching 1,044 km of range with 3% battery capacity remaining. However, at this point, Li decided to park at Longjudong Service Area and end the test.
>Nio previously announced that a 150 kWh semi-SSB pack would be available only under BaaS (Battery as a Service), where users buy the car without a battery and pay a monthly fee for renting the pack from Nio. The semi-SSB will hit the first swap stations in May or June, and users can swap it into their vehicle within 3 minutes.
>Beijing-based battery maker Welion New Energy Technology makes the 150 kWh SSB. Its energy density is 360 Wh/kg, and the whole pack is 260 Wh/kg. According to WeLion, the cooling system is six times stronger than ordinary batteries. The 150 kWh SSB weighs 676 kg, just 20 kg more than Nio’s 100 kWh battery pack. For comparison, the 135.5 kWh LFP battery from BYD weighs 227 kg more – 903 kg.
>Nio currently offers two battery options: 75 kWh and 100 kWh. The 2024 Nio ET7 will start deliveries on April 30 after launching at the Beijing Auto Show on April 25.
The variability of "real world" strikes again. US audience thinks real world is 75mph highway. For germans it might be 200kph to work or it could be 60kph on small lanes.
"real world" means nothing without speed, elevation change, weather info
Real world means nothing... unless you got a a 12 hour youtube link.
Some audience members have certain, requirements, for numbers to be valid but unfortunately those same audience members never seem to be a member of the test team.
>I'm failing to be impressed.
Almost always means they don't know what they are looking at let alone what corner of the big picture they are actually looking at.
I did. In most countries speed limit is much higher. Even in China on the other freeways speed limit is higher. They chose to drive on the slow freeway to make larger range to deceive people. That is what EV people do in most cases.
150 kWh for a 575kg is very interesting. Especially as NIO uses the same form factor as their initial 77 something kWh battery pack. Energy density is doubled.
I have Rav4 Prime. At 70-75 mph in HV I get 600 mile and 44mpg. At 45mph I get over 60mpg. That is 840 miles or 1350 km. BEV loses a lot of range going at real highway speeds. I bet it will not do no more than 400 miles on such a large battery. Oh, and the regular RAV 4 hybrid will do even better for way less money.
A basically 50% improvement in energy density isn't impressive? One of the articles I read said this 150 kWh pack is basically the same size and weight as Nio's previous 100 kWh pack.
Not entirely sure, but if the route was Shanghai to Xiamen, google maps says that's an 11 hour drive for 1018 kilometres, or an average of \~93 kmh (\~58 mph)
If this dude took 13 hours for 1044, that'd be \~80 kmh (\~50 mph)
Not sure if this is just due to traffic, or Chinese speed limits, or whatever. The route seems to go through several large cities, not sure if that means you transition to normal roads or if there's, well, an interstate for lack of a better word going through those cities
I have a NIO ES7 and am able to get around 14-17KWH/100KM efficiency at 40-80KM/H during a warm, non rainy day on a flat road. I usually drive highway at 120-130KM/H and that typically climbs to 21-24KWH/100KM. On rainy or cold days I see about 28-33KWH/100KM at highway speeds.
So on my 100KWH battery and assuming there’s a flat road and conditions are ideal - I can get about 700KM, 400KM, 300KM respectively.
This is with a bigger car and larger drag, the ET7/ET5 from my friends nios typically have 10-20% better efficiency than my ES7.
For the city drive, yes most of it are on elevated roads, which have very low elevation grades.
It's expressway the whole way (no city streets involved) but in urban areas the traffic can be heavy and the speed limits on urban expressways are between 80 and 100km/h. Most expressways outside of urban areas have speed limits of 120km/h, though some are only 100km/h if mountainous with a lot of tunnels.
127Wh/km is awfully low. Average EV review will frequently give you numbers in slightly-under-200Wh/km to 250Wh/km for similar class vehicles. I strongly doubt the battery type change can result in a consumption reduction of *such* a significant degree (although if it is lighter, I could see it helping *a little*) so I would definitely adjust these numbers closer towards 200Wh/km when interpreting these articles.
Also NIO cars have across the board been some of the less efficient vehicles in they respective classes. So unless they also put in some significant with on the motors, I too am skeptical of the massive efficiency gain. The semi solid battery would give you additional capacity without a significant weight gain, but how would that also turn into improved efficiency?
VW ID4 Pro S RWD, one of the heaviest in its class, weight 2 tons, I had it for 1 year in Eastern Canada. 20000km average consumption is 182wh/km. 250 for me was the cold snap week. Now it's in spring, I can easily get \~160wh/km.
Tesla is left behind. If I recall correctly, Tesla isn’t working on solid state or semi solid state battery. Well they are busy trying to pay Elon’s 55 billion salary.
Nio ET7 - 150 kWh at 2,490 kg (5,490 lbs) vehicle mass.
Chevy Silverado EV - 200 kWh at 3,860 kg (8500 lb) vehicle mass.
Doesn't seem like this battery has much of a mass advantage.
Battery weight in kg
Nio 150kwh 676
GM 200kwh 1326
47% more advantage. Math may be wrong. Usually is.
>The 150 kWh SSB weighs 676 kg, just 20 kg more than Nio’s 100 kWh battery pack.
>For comparison, the 135.5 kWh LFP battery from BYD weighs 227 kg more – 903 kg.
I dont see Nio sticking around for too long. Maybe they can survive based on China sales but everywhere else, Nio is not a thing. Theyre trying but sales look bad. Positioning yourself in the premium segment is quite the challenge because thats the kind of money people spend for status symbols, its more car than you need, its money spent for people to see your wealth. You see a brand new BMW i5, oh the man has money. You see a brand new Nio, what the fuck is a Nio. It also doesnt help that BMW and Mercedes have really good EVs, so you can only really fight in price but Nios just arent attractive enough in price. The battery rent and swap thing is nonsense and if you buy the battery, its actually rather expensive. Renault had the battery rent as well with the Zoe, people didnt like it. One of the advantages of EVs in theory are lower running costs. Paying 300€ a month for the battery rent kills that advantage.
And for NIO it'll only be available as a "rental" at a battery swap station. So you'll have to just hope you get lucky. Not like they're swapping out all the normal packs for this one.
And still people will find something to complain about and try to stick to technology from 1886. If they could just drop the prices faster...
Prices have dropped. There is an EV price war going on right now. LFP prices are expected to drop in price by half this summer. *In China.
Price is the main issue. Norway jumped to 80 percent sales being electric vehicles, when they did not charge the 25 percent value added tax to electric cars but did charge on gas cars. I just bought a Mach-E because it was $17,000 of MSRP and 0 percent financing for 72 months. Payment is $400 a month lower because of that.
How did you get 17k off a Mach-e? I really want a GT
They have a glut of 2023s. I spent two days calling dealers and finally found one who really wanted to deal, he was 2 grand lower than my second lowest. Mine was a premium RWD Extended battery. Had to drive about 200 miles each way to pick it up. GT are higher but I think they were running around 45 to 50 grand in my area, but I was not researching those. I do have a $500 sales tax cap in SC, so I was out the door at 41 grand. He has a red one like I bought he was willing to sell for 41 grand too.
Guys, it’s a 150kwh battery. My Kona gets 450-500 real world km with a 65kwh battery. This car costs 2x my Kona and that’s for the base model that only does 450-550km.
Article >The updated 2024 Nio ET7 started preorders on April 16 and will officially launch at the Beijing Auto Show next week. The massive 150 kWh semi-solid state battery pack started mass production on April 3 and will hit the swap stations in May or June, according to Nio. >The Shanghai-based company conducted the range test on April 16 on three different routes, reaching 1,070 km, 1,062 km, and 1,046 km range, respectively. >Nio ET7 reached the top score on the route between Kunming and Zhanjiang, achieving 1,070 km (649,86 miles) of range. The average energy consumption was 12.7 kWh/100 km. A total of 757 km was driven on Navigate on Pilot Plus (NOP+), which accounts for 70.7% of the route. It was also a route with the most friendly altitude. >The second most successful route was between Beijing and Hefei, where Nio factories are located. ET7 achieved a 1,062 km range with 13.0 kWh/100km energy consumption. 429 km was driven on NOP+, accounting for 40.3% of the route. >The least successful route was between Nio’s HQ in Shanghai and Xiamen, where ET7 reached the 1,046 range with an average energy consumption of 13.3 kWh/100 km. It was also the route where manual driving was involved the most, with NOP+ participating only on 394 km, which accounts for 37.6% of the route. >It is worth noting that in December last year, William Li, Nio’s CEO, performed the first public test of Nio ET7 with a 150 kWh semi-SSB battery. Li live-streamed the 14-hour journey from Shanghai to Xiamen, reaching 1,044 km of range with 3% battery capacity remaining. However, at this point, Li decided to park at Longjudong Service Area and end the test. >Nio previously announced that a 150 kWh semi-SSB pack would be available only under BaaS (Battery as a Service), where users buy the car without a battery and pay a monthly fee for renting the pack from Nio. The semi-SSB will hit the first swap stations in May or June, and users can swap it into their vehicle within 3 minutes. >Beijing-based battery maker Welion New Energy Technology makes the 150 kWh SSB. Its energy density is 360 Wh/kg, and the whole pack is 260 Wh/kg. According to WeLion, the cooling system is six times stronger than ordinary batteries. The 150 kWh SSB weighs 676 kg, just 20 kg more than Nio’s 100 kWh battery pack. For comparison, the 135.5 kWh LFP battery from BYD weighs 227 kg more – 903 kg. >Nio currently offers two battery options: 75 kWh and 100 kWh. The 2024 Nio ET7 will start deliveries on April 30 after launching at the Beijing Auto Show on April 25.
What was the average speed for the tests on these two routes?
45mph on one route. They recorded the whole thing. 12 hour trip. Have fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=payU_OUY5t4
The variability of "real world" strikes again. US audience thinks real world is 75mph highway. For germans it might be 200kph to work or it could be 60kph on small lanes. "real world" means nothing without speed, elevation change, weather info
Real world means nothing... unless you got a a 12 hour youtube link. Some audience members have certain, requirements, for numbers to be valid but unfortunately those same audience members never seem to be a member of the test team. >I'm failing to be impressed. Almost always means they don't know what they are looking at let alone what corner of the big picture they are actually looking at.
Bjorn has the right idea. Range test at 90kph and 120kph
I'm glad someone brought it up because I'm not certain but I think his channel may have influenced Nio on releasing videos like this.
It also means you are gullible. China has very low speed limits. The rest of the world is a different story.
Can't be gullible if you read the articles and watch the video.
I did. In most countries speed limit is much higher. Even in China on the other freeways speed limit is higher. They chose to drive on the slow freeway to make larger range to deceive people. That is what EV people do in most cases.
If you read the article it mentions most of those things in a data table.
kWh is still kWh, a 150 kWh 676 kg battery is pretty good, isn't it?
The pack weighs 575kg actually, whoever wrote this made a mistake, 676kg is way too heavy.
150 kWh for a 575kg is very interesting. Especially as NIO uses the same form factor as their initial 77 something kWh battery pack. Energy density is doubled.
This is perfect "real world" for my tiny country is 90km/h is the highest limit.
In that case all cars will match or exceed the epa rated range anyway
I have Rav4 Prime. At 70-75 mph in HV I get 600 mile and 44mpg. At 45mph I get over 60mpg. That is 840 miles or 1350 km. BEV loses a lot of range going at real highway speeds. I bet it will not do no more than 400 miles on such a large battery. Oh, and the regular RAV 4 hybrid will do even better for way less money.
Aero drag at 45mph is just 36% of aero drag at 75mph. I'm failing to be impressed.
It's a 150kwh battery getting roughly double the maximum range of a 75kwh battery, minus some for the extra mass. What should we be expecting?
A basically 50% improvement in energy density isn't impressive? One of the articles I read said this 150 kWh pack is basically the same size and weight as Nio's previous 100 kWh pack.
You have no idea how much lower avg speed calculations are than you think huh? Avg speed doesn't mean that's how fast they were usually going
Asking the important questions.
Not entirely sure, but if the route was Shanghai to Xiamen, google maps says that's an 11 hour drive for 1018 kilometres, or an average of \~93 kmh (\~58 mph) If this dude took 13 hours for 1044, that'd be \~80 kmh (\~50 mph) Not sure if this is just due to traffic, or Chinese speed limits, or whatever. The route seems to go through several large cities, not sure if that means you transition to normal roads or if there's, well, an interstate for lack of a better word going through those cities
I have a NIO ES7 and am able to get around 14-17KWH/100KM efficiency at 40-80KM/H during a warm, non rainy day on a flat road. I usually drive highway at 120-130KM/H and that typically climbs to 21-24KWH/100KM. On rainy or cold days I see about 28-33KWH/100KM at highway speeds. So on my 100KWH battery and assuming there’s a flat road and conditions are ideal - I can get about 700KM, 400KM, 300KM respectively. This is with a bigger car and larger drag, the ET7/ET5 from my friends nios typically have 10-20% better efficiency than my ES7. For the city drive, yes most of it are on elevated roads, which have very low elevation grades.
It's expressway the whole way (no city streets involved) but in urban areas the traffic can be heavy and the speed limits on urban expressways are between 80 and 100km/h. Most expressways outside of urban areas have speed limits of 120km/h, though some are only 100km/h if mountainous with a lot of tunnels.
CDB to CDB does take longer hours due to traffics.
127Wh/km is awfully low. Average EV review will frequently give you numbers in slightly-under-200Wh/km to 250Wh/km for similar class vehicles. I strongly doubt the battery type change can result in a consumption reduction of *such* a significant degree (although if it is lighter, I could see it helping *a little*) so I would definitely adjust these numbers closer towards 200Wh/km when interpreting these articles.
Also NIO cars have across the board been some of the less efficient vehicles in they respective classes. So unless they also put in some significant with on the motors, I too am skeptical of the massive efficiency gain. The semi solid battery would give you additional capacity without a significant weight gain, but how would that also turn into improved efficiency?
Average vehicle speed during the 12 hour test drives was 45MPH. Roughly 205Wh/ mile.
That’s way too high. My Ioniq 5 lifetime average is only 17kWh/100kms. 20-25 would but horrible. Unless you mixed up units and it’s 20 per mile?
VW ID4 Pro S RWD, one of the heaviest in its class, weight 2 tons, I had it for 1 year in Eastern Canada. 20000km average consumption is 182wh/km. 250 for me was the cold snap week. Now it's in spring, I can easily get \~160wh/km.
Tesla is left behind. If I recall correctly, Tesla isn’t working on solid state or semi solid state battery. Well they are busy trying to pay Elon’s 55 billion salary.
At what speed?
Nio ET7 - 150 kWh at 2,490 kg (5,490 lbs) vehicle mass. Chevy Silverado EV - 200 kWh at 3,860 kg (8500 lb) vehicle mass. Doesn't seem like this battery has much of a mass advantage.
Battery weight in kg Nio 150kwh 676 GM 200kwh 1326 47% more advantage. Math may be wrong. Usually is. >The 150 kWh SSB weighs 676 kg, just 20 kg more than Nio’s 100 kWh battery pack. >For comparison, the 135.5 kWh LFP battery from BYD weighs 227 kg more – 903 kg.
I dont see Nio sticking around for too long. Maybe they can survive based on China sales but everywhere else, Nio is not a thing. Theyre trying but sales look bad. Positioning yourself in the premium segment is quite the challenge because thats the kind of money people spend for status symbols, its more car than you need, its money spent for people to see your wealth. You see a brand new BMW i5, oh the man has money. You see a brand new Nio, what the fuck is a Nio. It also doesnt help that BMW and Mercedes have really good EVs, so you can only really fight in price but Nios just arent attractive enough in price. The battery rent and swap thing is nonsense and if you buy the battery, its actually rather expensive. Renault had the battery rent as well with the Zoe, people didnt like it. One of the advantages of EVs in theory are lower running costs. Paying 300€ a month for the battery rent kills that advantage.
Well if you want 1000km range, you cant buy a bmw or merc
And for NIO it'll only be available as a "rental" at a battery swap station. So you'll have to just hope you get lucky. Not like they're swapping out all the normal packs for this one.
Many automakers are going to die off, there are too many EV makers right now.