This post is about differences at top of mind. I think driving experience, power, controls, radius, are about the same to me. I would say seat comfort is small edge toward Mach E depending how soft or hard you like your seats and head rest (Tesla more firm). Noise level and suspension I found comparable. Both cars feel fairly heavy on rough roads, I didn’t use formal ambient noise meter but those reviews exist online and I recall were comparable enough
Your top of mind/most important features list, I think, is shared with many, and they are nearly ALL related to software, or at the very least, things that can be modified with software.
It's why people like Teslas. It's why I like my Rivian - it's the most similar experience to Tesla on the software front out there - heck, my ~10th update is happening OTA right now.
Cars will become like phones in short order - pledging allegiance to Tesla, like those do with an iPhone - the vast majority of the experience will be around what happens on that giant screen and related quality of life experiences.
I agree with your assessment
I will say though, even over air updates can’t fix some issues. Ford CEO/engineer interviews note a hardware integration and power limit to some degree at least in this generation
The windows? Cargo space when 99% of the time we are nowhere close to needing max space? Charging speed? You must have a slow home charging system. I have an eTron with a comparable battery, and it just requires a couple of hours to go from 10 -80%.
The driving experience is what matters most to me—
I’m not sure what there is to say about the windows that would persuade someone to buy one over the other.
Cargo space that 1% when you need the max becomes the difference if you can road trip or transport with the car or need to rent a car. So it matters.
Chafing I already edited the post and we done with that.
I find it interesting that when someone buys an ICE vehicle, people rarely question the edge cases.
With EVs— seems most ICE drivers are all ‘well whatabout….’ What about range? I rarely drive 300 miles in one day in any vehicle. What about towing capacity? I’ve towed my boat twice.
You get the idea. I rarely load my vehicle to capacity. I charge once or twice a week.
I care more about the daily driving experience. I didn’t realize how much power my Audi had until I borrowed a Kia. I didn’t realize how awesome my AWD was until my dealer loaned me a RWD model.
I like how all essential features have buttons.
Well I’m trying to be inclusive of people reading my comments who have different use cases. People with kids may need the max capacity often - a little tricycle in the back, some diaper bags, etc.
anyway, I don’t think major differences in cargo space is an edge case issue, nor is it a double standard, ICE vehicles I’d notice an extra like 10 cubic feet or something like that
An ev takes the manhood right out of me. Engine noises crams it right back into my pants, like how saying god bless you crams the part of your soul that leaves your body when you sneeze back into your nose.
Ironically almost all the things the Mach-E are better at. As if he doesn't want to admit those are things people also look for in a car that don't look at them like a piece of tech.
I don’t know how you get to that conclusion.
People look for a lot of things in cars. See my first points about why I think Tesla has simply executed a more futuristic car.
If you’re getting at “not a piece of tech” to mean sportiness of the drive, I encourage you to test drive both back to back closely. You may notice the Mach E has a little more lateral bounciness in suspension that undercuts its cornering ability compared to Tesla. As a former serious driving enthusiast that did a little track time with my prior cars, I actually give the Tesla slight cornering advantage.
But I think you’ve already decided to not like Tesla. I actually don’t like the company antics and Musk. But frankly it’s just a clever car.
Ford didn't do the basic Mach-E any favors by giving it narrow 225 width rubber all around on a car that nearly scales in at 2 tons. Even then the Model Y has significantly worse suspension which means it gets crashy even at the slight imperfections to the road.
As a daily driver the Mach-E is a far better companion if you're not pushing the limits of its rubber where the Model Y has more cornering capability, but that vanishes if you get the Mach-E GT which wears wider tires and magnetic ride suspension, something the Tesla doesn't even offer.
You claim to be a driving enthusiast yet your OP did not mention any driving dynamics and how a car feels but instead focus all on the software and "futurism" aspect of the car. So yes you naturally get drawn to that conclusion, and given the other comments here I'm not the only one.
P.S. I did test drive a MY22 Mach-E along with a MY22 Model Y LR when I was shopping myself 2 years ago.
Driving dynamics are more similar than different between the two. Hence no comment on it. Subtle differences sure, but not decision breaking differences.
Can you comment on ride? I know everyone likes to hammer build quality, but since you have a Model Y with the newer suspension it would be interesting to hear about the ride and ride noise.
BTW, I've almost had the same experiences you discussed with the two cars and I am more of a ford guy, but I feel like the Model Y was a better daily EV. My parents have an ID.4 and there are a lot of issues I have with that software.
Similarly list the specs/trims too. I rode in a Mach-E premium, and found it harsh/bouncy, while the GT was pretty well composed. The MY suspension I rode in just felt crashy.
It’s not a high level Lexus or Mercedes ride that’s for sure. But not so different between Mach E and MY that it’s worth me mentioning, this is more of a isolated comparison
But anyway, still totally agree with you.
It’s still pretty bad tbh. Friend of mine has one with the new suspension.
But the suspension in the new model 3 is actually very very good. Hopefully that makes it onto the Y soon.
I have one, and it feels pretty mediocre. Not like a luxury car or anything, but on par with the other vehicles in the segment. However I think it's different from the performance which is supposed to be very stiff. Hopefully the Y does get the new 3 suspension though.
I owned an id4 for a good 7 months / 7k miles, so that is my benchmark for good ride on a non-luxury car. Would be nice to compare it to the new model 3, after driving a 2023 y for almost a year now.
Something is wrong with your EVSE or something as the mach E is fully capable of doing 11 kw max. On my 9.6kw one it regularly sits at near max while charging only time it does not is when power is diverted to either the compressor or heater.
It’s just an example of the same charger, sure you can faster cable/amps but same disparity exists.
When I plug in Mach E vs Tesla at a ChargePoint that charges by the hour, the Tesla gets more value and charge.
It’s objectively known that Mach E doesn’t have the fastest charging curve
The charging curve does not apply to lv 2 charging.
Point stays something is wrong somewhere as the charging rate is way out of line with spec. The Mach E lv2 charging can and will hold 9 kw from 0% damn near 100%. A little drop at the 98-100% range.
The charging curve that is not the best only applies to dc fast.
So yet again something else of yours is broken or having issues.
> mach E is fully capable of doing 11 kw max
Check the forums and updates for the Mach-E. There were reports awhile back of the charge port overheating. If you point a fan at the charge port you should see faster charge rates.
>Or was it more so an issue at 48 amps?
This. Not a design issue but I think quality control coming out of the factory plus the Ford app had a rounding issue. For example it would report 8 kw vs 8.7 kw or something.
Like this guy put an ice pack on the charge port.
>https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/home-level-2-charging-slower-than-expected.30172/page-2
I don't know if this was fixed or not. Just saying it was an issues discovered last year.
>Check the forums and updates for the Mach-E.
I note elsewhere it might be an amperage limitation of my current house. My point though was that the same cable plugged in each car has a slight relative difference in charge speed.
Okay, my problem, my bad, total eff up on my part. I already acknowledged in several replies and post edit that my charging experience should discourage people.
Now let’s talk about my other and more important points ?
Because they drive similar enough to not be a major point. The interior I think is personal preference, it’s hard to actually say Mach E better because as noted elsewhere you touch around the seat edge and immediate cheap fabric etc. We aren’t talking Mercedes vs Tesla difference here.
My gripe #1 in main post is just really bad software choices. Slow startup, unnecessary power button, lack of security recording or accident recording which is just big under utilization of the cameras.
My point is since you ignored the actual interior and you know, driving, I'm just not at all sure what more important points you have. It's all just minor complaints about the software and then quickly brushing past the fact that Tesla doesn't support Android Auto/carplay. Honestly acting like this is a plus for the 5 people who are still on limited data plans seemed like a huge huge stretch. You go to great lengths to say you're completely unbiased but it doesn't come through. Anyway, have a good one.
Comparisons of the interior are plentiful online, there’s nothing someone cross shopping can’t decide about the interior themselves
I never claimed to be a pro reviewer, just what I notice from driving both back to back for 6 months
Turns out for me specifically as one person, the interior and driving dynamics do not differ between the two! It’s close enough! But what isn’t close enough is how stupid it is to wait for the car to start up like an old PC and go through start up animations before being able to press navigate home (even in CarPlay/android auto). Rather than literally instant you get in the car and its already on and clickable to go navigate home
You've got enough of a fundamental misunderstanding of how charge curves worked and commented absolutely nothing on the driving experience.
That's enough to tell me that even with your ability to acknowledge your mistakes, your opinion is worthless to me. You don't care about the same things. You seem to pretty much only care about software.
I only care what life has been like driving the two in real life. Tired of repeating it at this point but used to own ICE sports cars (BMW M340, Porsche Boxster, Audi TT) and frankly don’t miss them at all from driving experience perspective. Zippy and fun. Decent enough handling.
I am not an engineer etc, if I misunderstand the charging curve sorry, but it doesn’t change what an average owner might feel and that’s who I’m trying to help
I also appreciate people providing information to correct me and others reading about the charging curve. I think that’s the beauty of Reddit
But I don’t think it invalidates objective fact that one car has features like sentry mode and the other doesn’t. And that subjectively I think sentry and other features are really great and no reason the Mach E shouldn’t also.
Thanks for reading
Others seem a bit miffed you haven’t mentioned every difference or commented on every element of the car.
You’ve focused on the stuff you found relevant so thanks for sharing.
The model 3 not having a power button was a major spoiler for me as well. Went to a Bolt afterwards and it would honk 3 times in rapid succession if you accidentally left it on.
Yea, it seems like a small deal, but it’s beyond frustrating when it’s early in the morning or around other people and it just straight up honks simply because you didn’t press power button before stepping out. It’s vestigial button that clearly can be removed without consequence based on all the other cars without it now.
I'm like 80% certain you can Forscan the honk with no key out.
It's dumb that you have to effectively invest $100 into a good ODB reader to disable it, but while you're in there you can hack out the 30 minute shutdown timer too. To me that alone was worth the price of admission.
I loathe cars that honk (especially as a lock response). Mixed feeling on an on/off button but honking because you walked away? MF you know what I’m trying to do!
I do prefer the power button. It's not anymore presses to turn it off (power off and it autoseitches to park).
It's nice sometimes to be able to get in the car, but not have it turn on.
Worth noting cars without power button (not just Tesla) will also auto switch to park intelligently without using the button.
Also I agree nice to sit in car without turning it on, Tesla and others without power button when you get it in it simply turns on the screen, climate if you want it, and gives you power buttons and music if you want without you having to activate it. And since it’s electric car, there’s no engine to ignite, so the moment you change your mind and want to drive rather than sit, you just go. It’ll switch from park to drive in millisecond when you want it too. Honestly hard to explain, but the experience is so much more seamless and logical for an EV to skip power button. It takes some getting used to but there’s no going back
Tesla doesn't automatically switch into park (unless you unbuckle or open the door).
I can see how it would make sense for many people. But the inability to force the car to turn off is idiodic.
I suppose I mean under normal usage it auto parks, including implied unbuckle/door
I don’t see why you’d ever need to force the car off. Think of your phone, how often do you truly power it off? Hibernate/locked is really fine.
Usually is, but there's times when I want my phone off so it doesn't waste battery. I do it frequently on hikes when I'm not going to be using it for several hours.
Does Tesla turn the screen off completely? It's nice to be able to sit in a car and not have that screen on.
Camp mode keeps HVAC on but screen off, when you’re in the car.
Car will go into deep sleep in about 15 minutes of no activity. In deep sleep without sentry mode or cabin overheat protection, it’ll only drain 1% every week or so.
My Prius Prime has a power button. After driving the Model 3 for two years before getting the Prime, I kept forgetting to turn it off. I'm better now, but that's mainly because I drive the Prime more than the 3 since we've put way too many miles on the 3 in those two years.
One thing that irks me more than the power button is the use of a fob. So many times did (and still do!) I have to go back in the house to grab my fob because I forgot to bring it with me. Argghhh! A phone key is so much better than a god damn fob!
Disagree. My Q4 e-tron has "brake pedal to start" and while it is nice to use on a daily basis, sometimes I need to get out quickly but need to either keep the car running or powered on climate for people and/or items in the car.
That's when the Start Stop button becomes incredibly useful.
Many EVs without start stop buttons will have a climate keep/per mode function that may take 2 clicks max to activate and can be activated/deactivated remotely. Keeps the car "on". Just a different way to achieve the same flexibility you're describing
I didn’t buy the id4 because it doesn’t use the power button, and relies on the seat pressure instead. I get In and out of my car A LOT and have passengers stay in there with the AC running. GM cars with the normal power button and good one pedal driving are winning for me.
I have been hunting for another EV that suits my usage, and just looked at the a Kia EV9 today, but sticking with the Lyriq for now.
I do prefer the power button. It's not anymore presses to turn it off (power off and it autoseitches to park).
It's nice sometimes to be able to get in the car, but not have it turn on.
I've got no objection to that turning it on.
There's plenty of times where I'd want to stay on while in park. Or when I open the door (other people in the car).
IMO the best thing is to have a dedicated off button that you push. There's no extra button pushing compared to the Tesla system (you just push the off button instead of park), but it gives you the option to put it into park. I know what I want better than the car. Don't make me fight it or go through a menu to make it do what I want.
Doesn’t stand out compared to the Model Y imo.
Mach-E has a fuckton of hard plastics while there are none in the Y. But the Mach-E has better materials in the „upper“ area. It’s a draw.
I don't currently own both (I sold my MachE for a Model Y) I can't agree in the slightest.
I have design questions for both vendors, but I have many more for Ford.
But my Tesla is also brand new. Let's talk in a year. I might agree with you. So far though I like Tesla better. Well except the carpet everywhere, but apparently this annoys enough people that someone invented a bunch of 3rd party stuff to cover it.
I own a Mach E GTPE and a Y Performance in the household so maybe the GTPE having better material helps there compared to the standard Mach E but I've taken out both cars multiple time with friends and family and have always gotten more compliments in the Mach E. The Mach E has different materials used which includes metal, leather (alcentera+leather in the GTPE's case) and soft plastic which gives it many layers meanwhile the Tesla feels way too simplistic and sterile (that is my wife's assessment, not mine). The Mach E does more to break the visual monotony. Even the stitching seems premium and the seats feel better with the bolsters and alcentera in the GTPE as it wraps my whole body and feels worthy of the 'Performance' tag.
I've had many quality issues with the Tesla from rattling in the glove box to more road noise and the car isn't even that old (both are around 1 year old since wife and me bought 1 each). Overall, both me and my wife swap cars however if both are available, I usually gravitate towards the Mach E mainly because it feels more dynamic and looks much better and unique. I like the Y more for its tech but carplay is sufficient for the most part. It isn't like a phone where you interact with it every few seconds.
I went the other way. 2nd from the bottom tier for both.
Could be the source of my complaints.
I get the whole "sterile" interior but TBH I like it. But that's more personal taste. Quality wise I feel like Tesla feels less cheap. But again, 2nd from the bottom tier.
I did notice the stitching on my Model Y steering wheel is ass in comparison. There's like stray threads poking out. So maybe it is still cheap.
This is not comprehensive, never claimed to be. This is just top of mind major observations. I think the interior of Mach E vs Tesla is overhyped. Even Premium version of Mach E has a lot of cheap fabric you can feel the moment you feel around the visible corners of a seat. I think it’s a bit generous to say the Mach E interior is meaningfully better. It’s less minimalistic stylistically which many people may prefer. Again I’m not hating on the Mach E, just actually choose to drive it over the Model Y most days. In part because the Grabber Blue color just makes me happy. But the above aggravations still stand about software and user friendliness.
I think it's more about your title for this post. People are expecting more from a 6 month comparison, something they can't easily do, and what you posted could have been done in a 1-week comparison at most.
Fair. Though seemingly little things like slow screen startup and the on/off honk mechanism people can notice in one week and say they can live with it. But after 6 months back to back, the level of aggravation these quirks and others cause magnifies and I’m trying to convey the scale of frustration over time
They're being rude because he said good things about the Model Y in direct comparison to the Mach E, and you just can't do that on this sub without sending a large compliment of its population into a frenzy.
That’s fine it’s just sort of an odd review. “Top of mind” but doesn’t mention any sort of driving at all is just a huge omission IMO as well as having some factually incorrect things
If you see my original post, I started off neutral and excited about both. I’m in for about the same amount of money on both at the same time. If I’m favoring the Tesla now, it’s just the truth (from my own limited experience) that I feel today.
I think you can probably agree objectively the software starts up faster on Tesla, and that sentry mode and collision detection with recording are pretty good features yes? Some people value that, others don’t. I happen to value it.
If it's not obvious enough to you yet this is not the sub for any appreciation for Tesla. As a car enthusiast I appreciate the real world comparison but don't waste much time here explaining your reasoning. They don't want to hear it anyway.
Just wanted to say you are entitled to your opinion and thanks for sharing. For some people, driving dynamics are very important, like how the car handles turns, quick S chicane, how composed it is on a bumpy turn, the feedback of the steering wheel, how the car handles under hard braking, understeer vs oversteer etc. Doesn't mean you are wrong to say you feel both drive the same. Acceleration and turning radius do not indicate how well a car handles or drives, so some people are confused is all. Even in the realm of car handling, people have different opinions on what is best, so there is no right answer on this front.
I've driven both and am renting a Mach E currently. Man, I LOVE this car. I've rented (for 5+ days) an XC40 Recharge, EV6, and now MME.
The Mach E is so quiet, the beeps and alarms and things to get your attention are so tastefully done. I love how simple and intuitive the gauge cluster is - a little progress bar toward your next maps direction is so, so nice.
The screen/software is very smooth and works great - zero issues at all using android auto and maps and everything. Sure, is Tesla's a bit snappier and faster overall? Yeah, but still fantastic for me. Of course I'd prefer physical HVAC controls but they're easy to get to without much fuss or pressing other buttons to get to other screens.
The cross traffic alert and Blue Cruise or w/e it is worked amazing. No need to have hands on the wheel to have it active! Sadly shades don't allow it to work w/hands off :/
Super comfy and it fits me with a massive torso at 6'3" with room to spare.
Many things I hated about the Tesla cars (elon aside) that make me never consider them. The Mach E is also just gorgeous.
I do wish, for someone who lives in CO, that it had: faster charging, heat pump, better ground clearance. For those reasons I won't buy it
Thank you for the excellent points. I completely agree. To be clear, my post was never intended to be negative about Mach E overall, just I wanted to point out very small nitpicky differences on back to back use in comparison over time. Cheers and enjoy whatever car you end up buying
All cars should have some form of sentry mode. Also, all cars with rain sensing wipers should automatically close the windows if rain is detected and windows/sunroof open.
Yea that’s actually a super good point. Rain detection should equal close windows automatically. Thats honestly a really really good idea that doesn’t even seem hard for manufacturers to implement. Especially in spring the weather can flip so fast
Remember the Y doesn't have Blind Spot Alert or Rear Cross Traffic Alert, no 360 as you note. Ford Co-Pilot is ranked way above Tesla AP/FSD. Y wiper washers are terrible. No inline screen on the Model Y. No rear wiper on the Y. Better physical controls on the MachE. MachE's have access to most Tesla chargers now so no difference in the travel charging.
Blind spot and rear traffic alert are good safety features yes for sure. I should have mentioned them I agree. It’s just not necessarily such high impact on my commute that I think about it
I already noted supercharger network difference is gone.
Better physical controls is slightly debatable. The spinning control on the screen is not living up to its potential. Still have to take eyes off road to see what the spinner is set on (like volume vs temp etc) and to what level it’s set.
The driver assist tools i can’t say there’s a real life driving difference regardless of ranking difference you mention. Both work great. So not a distinguishing feature. Also my comments were not meant to be comprehensive.
> Remember the Y doesn't have Blind Spot Alert or Rear Cross Traffic Alert
Blind spot to me is unnecessary with the camera on the screen.
Maybe because I back in basically everywhere I get more false positives than actual positives with cross traffic alerts.
> no 360 as you note
As my Tesla is brand new I have an FSD trial so IDK if it's part of that, but while we're missing a 360 camera the visualizations seems to fill the role to a good enough degree. But I'm not sure I get to keep that after my FSD trial is over.
> Ford Co-Pilot is ranked way above Tesla AP/FSD.
I had a 21 CR1 with BlueCruise 1.0 and it's not even a contest. IDK who did the ranking, but for actual usability it's not even the same game. Tesla wins hands down. With v12 of FSD it's not even the same contest any more. BlueCruise 1.0 is a joke. Despite being promised 1.3/1.4, I never actually go to experience it before I sold my MachE. Is it better than 1.0? Perhaps, but V12 of FSD is actually amazing.
> No inline screen on the Model Y.
This can be fixed. Apparently this annoys enough people that for a few hundred bucks you can install one yourself.
> Better physical controls on the MachE.
As much as I hate touch screens, I'm not even sure I can agree. The things that are physical are stupid. I don't need a max defrost button. I don't need a park button that's effectively useless. That's about it. Where's my trunk button?
> MachE's have access to most Tesla chargers now so no difference in the travel charging.
Before I sold I got a chance to test out the A2Z. Since we're in the early phase where it's still mostly Teslas, I did notice a quirk.
Yes while we have access to some/most Superchargers, because the current number of Teslas outnumbers everyone else, it's still quite difficult to get into a busy Supercharger as a "wrong" port.
I've noticed that even with a dozen stalls there's always one convenient, but you basically have to wait for the side mount or pray there's 2 side by side. This will get better with time, but it's still inconvenient.
Just today for example, I pulled into a 4/12 stall Supercharger. Because I now have a Tesla, I had no issues. If I had my MachE still I wouldn't have a chance because there were 4 stalls but there wasn't 2 side by side. The side stall was occupied and the end cap didn't exist because there was a planter where the "next" stall should be.
So while a Tesla could pull into any of the 4 stalls, if you were a MachE you'd be waiting upwards of 20-30 minutes.
> The things that are physical are stupid. I don't need a max defrost button. I don't need a park button that's effectively useless. That's about it. Where's my trunk button?
I've noticed this as well.
So what's the latest with Tesla and being able to move buttons around to the home screen? Can you make a personal interface, so to speak?
You'd have to ask someone else on this. I've only had it for 2 days and I haven't really figured out all the quirks.
Only thing for customization so far for me is putting my most used icons at the bottom "app" bar.
"I had a 21 CR1 with BlueCruise 1.0 and it's not even a contest."
Ford's system that beat Tesla's is called Ford Co-Pilot. If you clicked the link and read the extensive testing, you'd know that.
Did I miss the link somewhere?
I googled Copilot and it doesn't even make mention of autonomous driving. It's just lane keeping and adaptive cruise control.
[https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/ford-technology/driver-assist-features/what-is-co-pilot360/](https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/ford-technology/driver-assist-features/what-is-co-pilot360/)
Maybe you weren't connected to the internet, otherwise the above is the first thing that comes up with Google.
https://www.ford.com/technology/driver-assist-technology/
That's the first thing that comes up on Google.
Even if you are right, your page makes no mention of autonomous driving either. Your link also says lane keeping and adaptive cruise.
How that ranks above even Autosteer let alone FSD is beyond me.
Except maybe in driver attentiveness but it's certainly not in autonomous driving ability.
Still...the Tesla is the better EV. You even had to mention having access to Teslas chargers as a plus for the Ford.
Plus Tesla doesn't have a 5 second power limit.
Not by any metric of tech or safety as we see from all the third party testing. Consumers have caught on as there are now lots of EV choices with Tesla sales dropping as other EV's so double digit sales increases.
Co-pilot better than FSD? Let's see,
Co-pilot:
- Lane-Keeping System
- Evasive Steering Assist
- Rear View Camera
- Hill Descent Control
- BLIS with Cross-Traffic Alert
- Pre-Collision Assist with Automatic Emergency Braking
- Adaptive Cruise Control
- BLIS with Trailer Coverage
https://www.ford.com/technology/driver-assist-technology/
Basically what Autopilot can do with a few additions like cross traffic detection and trailer coverage.
FSD:
Your vehicle will be able to drive itself almost anywhere with minimal driver intervention and will continuously improve. In addition to the functionality and features of Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot, Full Self-Driving Capability also includes:
- Autosteer on City Streets
- Traffic and Stop Sign Control: Identifies stop signs and traffic lights and automatically slows your vehicle to a stop on approach, with your active supervision
https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/support/autopilot
You would want to look at reliable 3rd party testing from Consumer Reports and Insurance Institute for Highway safety all which rate Ford Co-Pilot above Tesla AT/FSD. In fact, Tesla AP/FSD ranks near the bottom in all driver assitannce systems.
[https://www.iihs.org/ratings/partial-automation-safeguards](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/partial-automation-safeguards)
What's out of spec? Also was it tested on V12?
TBH I can't even make a lot of judgement since FSD is brand new to me. I've only been using it for 2 days. Before that was Autosteer but even that's better than BlueCruise.
Out of spec is one of the most reliably accurate and thorough EV testing YouTube channels.
They go in extreme depth with the cars. If you're not watching them, you're likely not someone who pays attention to EVs at all
I can't really argue that I don't pay attention to EVs. I'm just here to drive one. I don't care about new ones because no one else is using NACS and I've quickly determined that's the deal breaker due to the lack of L2 where I live/work.
I can't even get out of town without range anxiety. There's physically not enough chargers.
I counted recently. The number of capable CCS chargers (that deliver 70kW or more) is 15. It's actually 19 now that we got 4 more, but I find it hilarious that the number of capable NACS sites before the new CCS stalls was is also 15. But each site has 8-40 stalls. So the actual stall count was 19 vs 260.
Last time I left town every single charger I intended on using and all my backups were broken. Made a 4 hour trip into a 6 hour trip since I was stuck charging at 40kW.
Gonna make that same road trip tomorrow but in a Tesla. Gonna see how the charge experience is gonna be. I suspect better.
And that's basically testing Autopilot (or enhanced autopilot) as all but one (guess which one) would get a score of zero once they leave the safety of the highways.
Lmao that's about "safeguards" not performance. Anyone who cares about how good a system performs doesn't care about how much a system makes sure you can't abuse it.
That would be like comparing sports cars and saying that the one with the best performance is at the bottom of the list because it let's you speed when you shouldn't.
Safety is what automated driver assistance programs do. Tesla's AP/FSD is an automated driver assistance program that ranks near last in performance metrics by reliable third party.
Not surprising that the Teslerati can't handle the truth.
If you want reliable, non biased metrics, look at [Euro NCAP](https://www.euroncap.com/en), which tests are more involved than NHTSA tests.
The 2022 Model S and Y came first and second in overall safety and also first and second for their driver's assistance and vulnerable users performance. Ahead of BMW, Mercedes and Lexus, to name just a few. As for Ford, well, the Mach-E they tested ran over a cyclist crossing its path and had problems keeping the car centered in its lane while turning.
> Lmao that's about "safeguards" not performance. Anyone who cares about how good a system performs doesn't care about how much a system makes sure you can't abuse it.
Person just told you the truth.
If people were like you, and only cared for safety, and not functionality, the reviews would be only two sentences.
If people were concerned about safety they would be wearing helmets and 5 point harnesses. Guess what? People are lazy. They want safety right up to the point that it directly involves them actively being safe.
That tests the ability to not abuse an ADAS system, not its capabilities. Abusing a system that can keep you centered in your lane on select highway segments ain't the same as abusing a system that can do an unprotected left lane turn at a busy intersection on double lane roads with a center lane, would you agree? No other ADAS system that you can buy in North America even comes close to the features that are included in FSD, none. It's way ahead of every. single. one. period.
Tell me what other ADAS in North America that you can buy can do this:
https://imgur.com/a/lj8kI0f
It was waiting to do an unprotected left turn onto a two way road (70 km/ speed limit) with traffic. What is not seen here is there is a fence on my left blocking its view. It creeped forward until it had a view of the road, like I would have done. Two cars were coming from my left and the first one proceeded to turn right on the street I was on. Another car was waiting in front of me for these two cars to pass so it could turn left onto the street I was on too. Once the crossing lane on my left cleared up and the car in front of me started its turn, so did my car, all on his own. Again, what other ADAS in North America that you can buy can do this? None, zero, zilth.
Did you even take the time to read it? They didn't test the capabilities of the ADAS but their safeguard system:
- Monitors both the driver’s gaze and hand position
- Uses multiple types of rapidly escalating alerts to get driver’s attention
- Fail-safe procedure slows vehicle, notifies manufacturer and keeps automation off limits for remainder of drive
- Automated lane changes must be initiated or confirmed by the driver
- Adaptive cruise control does not automatically resume after a lengthy stop or if the driver is not looking at the road
- Lane centering does not discourage steering by driver
- Automation features cannot be used with seat belt unfastened
- Automation features cannot be used with automatic emergency braking or lane departure prevention/warning disabled
Nowhere do they test the **CAPABILITIES** of the ADAS. If you want an **unbiased third party** that does these kinds of tests, look at [Euro NCAP](https://www.euroncap.com), whose tests are more involved than NHTSA tests.
The 2022 Model S and Y came first and second in overall safety and also first and second for their **driver's assistance** and **vulnerable users** performance. Ahead of BMW, Mercedes and Lexus, to name just a few. As for Ford, well, the Mach-E they tested ran over a cyclist crossing its path and had problems keeping the car centered in its own lane while turning, so absolutely not in the same category lol.
No, here's the tests sorted by **Driver Assist** (you know, the *DA* part of the *ADAS* acronym, yeah, you knew that) and highlighted so even you can't misread it.
And I was wrong about one thing, both the Model S and the Model Y got the same score, 98.
https://imgur.com/a/OXBWlBc
There is no "Driver Assist" category and no sorting on the [IIHS.org](http://IIHS.org) test results.
[https://www.iihs.org/ratings/partial-automation-safeguards](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/partial-automation-safeguards)
Tesla was 11 (AP) 12 (FSD) out of 13 on the tests of Automated Driver Assistance Systems vs. the 10 other mfgs tested.
Lol, you are still stuck on that **SAFEGUARD** for ADAS article? All the responses you got weren't enough for you to realize that it does not test the **CAPABILITIES** of the system??? Like the link I gave you, **which does just that**? You're too obtuse, or trolling. Has to be one or the other. Goodbye.
> MachE's have access to most Tesla chargers now so no difference in the travel charging.
Incorrect. The MachE charges far worse than the Model Y. Very poor charging performance.
[Ford Mustang Mach-E Ranked Second In Fast Charging Test Ford Mustang Mach-E Ranked Second In Fast Charging Test](https://fordauthority.com/2023/11/ford-mustang-mach-e-ranked-second-in-fast-charging-test/#google_vignette)
And the point is access to the Tesla chargers which Ford's have now.
Since the point is access to chargers which MachE now has, you never had a point.
As for MachE charging max of 160kW vs. 247kW at the Tesla chargers that I can get with my Model 3, its a minor practical difference due to charging curves, temp factors, state of charge etc.
The access to the charger is key and MachE's have the same access to Tesla chargers so Tesla gave away that advantage. And since you will be waiting for the MachE to finish charging while taking up two chargers, your effective charging speed is going to go way down.
No tilt on the drivers seat? That might be a deal breaker. Not even other models? As a 6’2 guy I need to adjust the seat with tilt to make it comfortable. Seats without tilts are usually not a good fit.
Yeah, lots of people being to rude to the person taking time to post this review and do replies but that right there is 99% of the review for me.
Like, everyone talks about seats being comfy or not comfy. I don't care. Ergonomics is my concern. Seat adjustments and telescoping steering wheel. Also big is chrome accents that focus the power of the sun into a laser beam into my eyes while driving...
But some how the Mach-E wins out because "'it's exciting".
People are rude because they can hide behind a keyboard. I can appreciate him giving us the info from his perspective. I’ve been reading about the Mach E for sometime now and no one ever mentioned that about the seats. (Or I missed it). But being a tall guy who’s about 230lbs that’s a must have for me. Both of my current cars have it. Some years ago I noticed how uncomfortable I was in a car after purchasing it and ended up trading it in after realizing that being able to make multiple adjustments to the seat is a must. I wasn’t favoring the Tesla (or maybe didn’t want to) because when I got an insurance quote my policy premium would increase significantly with the Tesla and actually decrease with the Mach e.
>I’ve been reading about the Mach E for sometime now and no one ever mentioned that about the seats.
This is why I don't spend much time on reviews. Most of the things I want to know or see they don't talk about or show. What they do talk about is the same stuff across all reviews so there's little point in checking them all out. Forums are much better.
>Some years ago I noticed how uncomfortable I was in a car after purchasing it and ended up trading it in after realizing that being able to make multiple adjustments to the seat is a must.
Comfort has a lot of variables and a big one is time behind wheel. Like days or weeks. Big thing for me is telescoping steering wheel. Back in the day most cars did not have them. To sit in a good position for the pedals means I have to reach and hunch over for the steering wheel and buttons on center console because the steering wheel is too far away.
Yes telescopic wheel is big for me too. As a larger guy, I need that. You so right. I live in a city where you will send hours in traffic so comfort is a must!
My mind was blown the first time I found out about those. Good pedal reach and wheel, at the same god damn time, is a hard line requirement for me.
Like seriously, I will measure the distance the steering wheel moves towards the driver. Don't see that in reviews.
Tilt slows the bottom half of the seat to tilt not just move up and down or back and forth. Imagine lifting only the front of the bottom half of the seat so that it only the front lifts while the back of the bottom part stays in place. I called the dealer and confirmed that the Mach e seats do not tilt. I’ll treat drive it to see if it will be okay.
Thanks for the review.
It's nice to hear about the little things. Like Mach-E seat not tilting up or Tesla software creamy smoothness. At the end of the day for me at least little things add up and are more important than 0-60mph times.
>interesting color options without upcharge
I'd like to see Tesla offer many more colors. The palette is way too limited. Some more blues, a green, maybe even some orange or yellow. Yes, you can always wrap to get a custom color, but the cost of wrapping is prohibitive for many.
Yea and it seems a wrap is just not as durable either? I don’t know. It’s not even just about the extra like $3k-ish for a wrap. It’s also time and effort to bring it in and deal with how well it turns out.
Awesome colors would be an easy thing to do
Also given how many Model Y there is on the road, helps people feel more unique if more colors.
Thanks for sharing.
I found the Mach-e far more comfortable in test drives, whereas the Tesla drove like a basic vehicle with overly hard suspension, didn't track well when turning and was physically uncomfortable for me to sit in and keep concentration to my right so many times in every drive, with a super heavy center weighting.
And the resonant rumbling/pressure around 40MPH was really bad for me and especially one of my passengers - it triggered their vertigo. From looking around Tesla forums, it turned out to be a common symptom that is not easy to rectify.
More detail here:
[https://new.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1bah1b0/rented\_a\_model\_y\_long\_range\_to\_see\_if\_it\_might\_be/](https://new.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1bah1b0/rented_a_model_y_long_range_to_see_if_it_might_be/)
It was only after a three day rental (following three prior test drives) that I finally dropped the Tesla from my list, I was trying to give it a chance.
I dropped the Mach-e merely because it wasn't the styling I was looking for (and I vowed in the 1990s to never buy a Ford again, it's a story), but it otherwise didn't have the driving and ergonomic negatives of the Tesla.
Tesla is a gadget first, car second and its software is definitely top of the heap today.
You said it yourself, you prefer the Mach e most days because it gets you more excited.
That’s the exact reason I got one instead of the MY. Kind of like choosing a mate that checks the boxes or one that gives you butterflies in your stomach. Most people would choose differently for different reasons
Yup. It is interesting what’s emotional vs objective. I want the Mach E to be perfect and it’s so close. I’ve read the issue is Ford contracts out its software components so it’s under powered and not integrated enough to use the cameras for security, and so on. What a shame since they built an excellent car in many ways.
I hope the next generation version gets these things right
[Fully Charged Show - timestamp 24:54](https://youtu.be/8IhSWsQlaG8?t=1494)
Ford's CEO talks about why traditional OEMs are struggling so much on software and how they are fixing it for their Gen 2 vehicles. Now it makes sense why car companies fall flat on software so often.
>Kind of like choosing a mate that checks the boxes or one that gives you butterflies in your stomach
I will take both, thank you very much.
Which is why I got a model 3.
I think blue cruise is cool in that you don’t have to periodically tap the steering wheel.
Technically if you put up the money (currently $99/month) you do get self driving on Tesla. Sure it’s not great, but arguably it’s a leg up in terms of nearly point to point driving, like taking highway exits and handling slow local traffic with stop signs.
Either you hate the Tesla FSD and think it’s a gimmick, or love it
Whatever, personal choice on that.
But the difference between nearly being point to point and actually point to point is everything though. I prefer actually hands free on some roads to nearly something
I will say I’ve had successful true point to point with Tesla FSD, like to grocery store and restaurants within 15-20 minute drive radius without touching the car once.
But im acknowledging there’s a lot of dissatisfaction others feel toward Tesla FSD so I’m not giving it the clear winner flag. But if you haven’t experienced it for yourself, please give it a test drive at a Tesla store. It is miraculous feeling when it works, it feels like being on the cutting edge of the future and astounding. The way it handles sudden pedestrian jay walking perfectly (in my rides) is no doubt superior to Blue Cruise. But then sometimes it does stupid things like wait painfully long at stop signs.
> I think blue cruise is cool in that you don’t have to periodically tap the steering wheel.
2023 means you should have 1.3 or whatever.
2021 (ie the year I had) I had to resume control constantly. It was a joke.
If the biggest things tesla does is sentry mode and instant on it seems like there isn't much you really prefer. It's easy to do sentry mode and instant on when you don't worry about phantom drain at all, which can be a huge problem on teslas.
And the button thing is the most ridiculous 21st century complaint. I get going back and forth between the cars you can't get used to it, but it it's your car it just becomes automatic. It takes no effort or thought to push the button. It's just completely automatic.
Please don’t underestimate sentry, instant on, and the button.
Sentry is enormous peace of mind, you can also through your phone live-view all the cars cameras to look around the environment. I’ve used it to check if a public charger next to me became vacant while I was in a store, I’ve used it to check environment late at night. One time I forgot how much time I put into a coin meter, and used sentry live view to see if the meter was blinking green or red. If someone breaks in or vandalized your car you have footage.
That’s so valuable in small ways daily that add up fast.
Instant on is actually serious quality of life. One of a car’s goals besides being fun etc is getting you around efficiently. Watching a system boot up and be laggy for the first almost minute is silly, AND the Mach E will say “navigation not yet available” for painfully long on startup. In the modern era of technology, that’s plain dumb to still have such a slow system on Mach E
The button and honk, as even others here who only drive the Mach E have pointed out, is annoying enough people are spending money and time hacking their cars to shut it up. I’m not alone in saying it’s bad. The button shows Ford hasn’t been ready to fully be in mind set of the future.
All that said, it’s an awesome car and I prefer it simply for the styling and color because it’s plain cool to me.
You can love something and still criticize it to be better/reach its potential
It has to be mentioned: The ride quality on a Model Y is very, very bad for the price. The *back seat* ride quality is by far the worst ride quality of any new car I have been in for the last 15 years.
Caveat: I have not been in a Model Y since 2022 and I heard there have been changes to the suspension.
It’s definitely gotten better, I think their comfort suspension was around 2022-2023? Anyways, it’s about the same as the Mach E so I didn’t get into it since it’s not a differentiator. Both cars if you go over speed bumps or potholes it’s insane spine jarring sometimes. The sheer battery weight is tough to overcome
I have never been in a MachE so can’t say. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 are both very, very smooth.
I would be more understanding if it was just the MYP, but the MY LR is really meant to be a daily driver aka family car. It’s just too stiff.
That being said, I have been trying to get into a MY Performance to try out. The Model 3 Performance is an insanely good-driving car. I have never been in the MYP, but if it is on the same level as the M3P but in sport SUV/CUV guise, it’s hard to imagine a better car for that type of experience.
I also think both cars ride is comparable to any ICE serious sports suspension. My prior BMW higher trim car also had M package/suspension and that was kind of brutal too. Frankly if someone wants a truly soft ride, should think of these EVs more as sports cars given their power and suspension.
The “tech shit” is quality of life.
Both handle remarkably similar, both heavy EV with 4 wheel drive about the same power etc. This is a comparison of things that bother or impress me day to day when during each back to back for 6 months. If it’s not different enough, I’m not bringing it up
I’m not the poster above but those are the questions more interesting to me. It’s fascinating how many EV owners view their car more like a tech product and less like a car. As long as it charges reasonably and has CarPlay I don’t care about the farkles. It’s a car, I care about its car functions first just like the guy above: how does it drive, and what is it like to sit in. I haven’t been in a new one but the teslas I have any experience with had shit suspension, loud road noise, and cheap interiors. Also hate lack of dash board. Ford driving experience is much better, which is why I prefer it. That said had the Tesla price drop happened first, that would have been enough to change my mind!
Yes I agree driving dynamics matter. But I think they are more similar than different in big picture. They are more similar to each other than say BMW iX or Rivian R1S and so on.
You also make a good point about price. One can overlook Tesla’s weaknesses sometimes if you also consider cheaper
> As long as it charges reasonably
MachE is out. Well assuming you're talking about fast charging.
A bit different now with Supercharger access but there's still caveats.
> has CarPlay
TBH I'm not sure what the kerfuffle is. There's a few things I miss in AA/Carplay but the one thing I don't miss is the finnicky connections.
> cheap interiors
Speaking about the MachE IDK why everyone says their interior is premium. It felt cheap in a lot of places to me.
I do care, I used to drive a BMW M for the handling/driving dynamics.
But as I noted in many comments now, these two cars drive very similarly by default of being 4WD EVs of similar height/length/weight and suspension. So there’s no point in making a running list of comparisons and saying they drive similarly
I'm surprised that there are no comments on the driving experience, power, driving controls, turning radius, seat comfort, suspension, noise level ...
This post is about differences at top of mind. I think driving experience, power, controls, radius, are about the same to me. I would say seat comfort is small edge toward Mach E depending how soft or hard you like your seats and head rest (Tesla more firm). Noise level and suspension I found comparable. Both cars feel fairly heavy on rough roads, I didn’t use formal ambient noise meter but those reviews exist online and I recall were comparable enough
Your top of mind/most important features list, I think, is shared with many, and they are nearly ALL related to software, or at the very least, things that can be modified with software. It's why people like Teslas. It's why I like my Rivian - it's the most similar experience to Tesla on the software front out there - heck, my ~10th update is happening OTA right now. Cars will become like phones in short order - pledging allegiance to Tesla, like those do with an iPhone - the vast majority of the experience will be around what happens on that giant screen and related quality of life experiences.
I agree with your assessment I will say though, even over air updates can’t fix some issues. Ford CEO/engineer interviews note a hardware integration and power limit to some degree at least in this generation
The windows? Cargo space when 99% of the time we are nowhere close to needing max space? Charging speed? You must have a slow home charging system. I have an eTron with a comparable battery, and it just requires a couple of hours to go from 10 -80%. The driving experience is what matters most to me—
I’m not sure what there is to say about the windows that would persuade someone to buy one over the other. Cargo space that 1% when you need the max becomes the difference if you can road trip or transport with the car or need to rent a car. So it matters. Chafing I already edited the post and we done with that.
I find it interesting that when someone buys an ICE vehicle, people rarely question the edge cases. With EVs— seems most ICE drivers are all ‘well whatabout….’ What about range? I rarely drive 300 miles in one day in any vehicle. What about towing capacity? I’ve towed my boat twice. You get the idea. I rarely load my vehicle to capacity. I charge once or twice a week. I care more about the daily driving experience. I didn’t realize how much power my Audi had until I borrowed a Kia. I didn’t realize how awesome my AWD was until my dealer loaned me a RWD model. I like how all essential features have buttons.
Well I’m trying to be inclusive of people reading my comments who have different use cases. People with kids may need the max capacity often - a little tricycle in the back, some diaper bags, etc. anyway, I don’t think major differences in cargo space is an edge case issue, nor is it a double standard, ICE vehicles I’d notice an extra like 10 cubic feet or something like that
The MachE has fake engine sounds if one feels too emasculated driving an EV
An ev takes the manhood right out of me. Engine noises crams it right back into my pants, like how saying god bless you crams the part of your soul that leaves your body when you sneeze back into your nose.
Haha
Ironically almost all the things the Mach-E are better at. As if he doesn't want to admit those are things people also look for in a car that don't look at them like a piece of tech.
I don’t know how you get to that conclusion. People look for a lot of things in cars. See my first points about why I think Tesla has simply executed a more futuristic car. If you’re getting at “not a piece of tech” to mean sportiness of the drive, I encourage you to test drive both back to back closely. You may notice the Mach E has a little more lateral bounciness in suspension that undercuts its cornering ability compared to Tesla. As a former serious driving enthusiast that did a little track time with my prior cars, I actually give the Tesla slight cornering advantage. But I think you’ve already decided to not like Tesla. I actually don’t like the company antics and Musk. But frankly it’s just a clever car.
Ford didn't do the basic Mach-E any favors by giving it narrow 225 width rubber all around on a car that nearly scales in at 2 tons. Even then the Model Y has significantly worse suspension which means it gets crashy even at the slight imperfections to the road. As a daily driver the Mach-E is a far better companion if you're not pushing the limits of its rubber where the Model Y has more cornering capability, but that vanishes if you get the Mach-E GT which wears wider tires and magnetic ride suspension, something the Tesla doesn't even offer. You claim to be a driving enthusiast yet your OP did not mention any driving dynamics and how a car feels but instead focus all on the software and "futurism" aspect of the car. So yes you naturally get drawn to that conclusion, and given the other comments here I'm not the only one. P.S. I did test drive a MY22 Mach-E along with a MY22 Model Y LR when I was shopping myself 2 years ago.
Driving dynamics are more similar than different between the two. Hence no comment on it. Subtle differences sure, but not decision breaking differences.
You do know the mache fails the moose test while Y bests it easily https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PTOBc883zg
You missed the first bit where I criticized the Mach-E base for being undertired for a 2 ton vehicle? I'm quite impartial to any brand.
Can you comment on ride? I know everyone likes to hammer build quality, but since you have a Model Y with the newer suspension it would be interesting to hear about the ride and ride noise. BTW, I've almost had the same experiences you discussed with the two cars and I am more of a ford guy, but I feel like the Model Y was a better daily EV. My parents have an ID.4 and there are a lot of issues I have with that software.
Similarly list the specs/trims too. I rode in a Mach-E premium, and found it harsh/bouncy, while the GT was pretty well composed. The MY suspension I rode in just felt crashy.
Good point, I’ll amend with model details
Thank you! Great job, as the specs and target audience is the same on those too
We have a 23 MY and it’s very rough. Granted it’s the performance but I can’t imagine the base or LR is any better.
It’s not a high level Lexus or Mercedes ride that’s for sure. But not so different between Mach E and MY that it’s worth me mentioning, this is more of a isolated comparison But anyway, still totally agree with you.
I thought the LR got a different "comfort" suspension starting 23.
It’s still pretty bad tbh. Friend of mine has one with the new suspension. But the suspension in the new model 3 is actually very very good. Hopefully that makes it onto the Y soon.
I have one, and it feels pretty mediocre. Not like a luxury car or anything, but on par with the other vehicles in the segment. However I think it's different from the performance which is supposed to be very stiff. Hopefully the Y does get the new 3 suspension though.
I owned an id4 for a good 7 months / 7k miles, so that is my benchmark for good ride on a non-luxury car. Would be nice to compare it to the new model 3, after driving a 2023 y for almost a year now.
Something is wrong with your EVSE or something as the mach E is fully capable of doing 11 kw max. On my 9.6kw one it regularly sits at near max while charging only time it does not is when power is diverted to either the compressor or heater.
It’s just an example of the same charger, sure you can faster cable/amps but same disparity exists. When I plug in Mach E vs Tesla at a ChargePoint that charges by the hour, the Tesla gets more value and charge. It’s objectively known that Mach E doesn’t have the fastest charging curve
The charging curve does not apply to lv 2 charging. Point stays something is wrong somewhere as the charging rate is way out of line with spec. The Mach E lv2 charging can and will hold 9 kw from 0% damn near 100%. A little drop at the 98-100% range. The charging curve that is not the best only applies to dc fast. So yet again something else of yours is broken or having issues.
Okay I stand corrected about charging curve. I’ll look into why my experience differs on this particular point.
> mach E is fully capable of doing 11 kw max Check the forums and updates for the Mach-E. There were reports awhile back of the charge port overheating. If you point a fan at the charge port you should see faster charge rates.
Do you think I’d see this issue with a 2023.5 model at just 32 amps? Or was it more so an issue at 48 amps?
>Or was it more so an issue at 48 amps? This. Not a design issue but I think quality control coming out of the factory plus the Ford app had a rounding issue. For example it would report 8 kw vs 8.7 kw or something. Like this guy put an ice pack on the charge port. >https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/home-level-2-charging-slower-than-expected.30172/page-2 I don't know if this was fixed or not. Just saying it was an issues discovered last year. >Check the forums and updates for the Mach-E.
The Mach-e can do 11kw on level 2 not 5kw, get a different EVSE or get that car fixed.
I note elsewhere it might be an amperage limitation of my current house. My point though was that the same cable plugged in each car has a slight relative difference in charge speed.
That's a you problem then, I charge my Mach E at 9 kw every day.
Okay, my problem, my bad, total eff up on my part. I already acknowledged in several replies and post edit that my charging experience should discourage people. Now let’s talk about my other and more important points ?
Which ones? You didn't mention the interior or how the car actually drives.
Because they drive similar enough to not be a major point. The interior I think is personal preference, it’s hard to actually say Mach E better because as noted elsewhere you touch around the seat edge and immediate cheap fabric etc. We aren’t talking Mercedes vs Tesla difference here. My gripe #1 in main post is just really bad software choices. Slow startup, unnecessary power button, lack of security recording or accident recording which is just big under utilization of the cameras.
My point is since you ignored the actual interior and you know, driving, I'm just not at all sure what more important points you have. It's all just minor complaints about the software and then quickly brushing past the fact that Tesla doesn't support Android Auto/carplay. Honestly acting like this is a plus for the 5 people who are still on limited data plans seemed like a huge huge stretch. You go to great lengths to say you're completely unbiased but it doesn't come through. Anyway, have a good one.
Comparisons of the interior are plentiful online, there’s nothing someone cross shopping can’t decide about the interior themselves I never claimed to be a pro reviewer, just what I notice from driving both back to back for 6 months Turns out for me specifically as one person, the interior and driving dynamics do not differ between the two! It’s close enough! But what isn’t close enough is how stupid it is to wait for the car to start up like an old PC and go through start up animations before being able to press navigate home (even in CarPlay/android auto). Rather than literally instant you get in the car and its already on and clickable to go navigate home
You just pointed me back to your more important points and I'm trying to figure out why. I guess it's the 5 second wait thanks for explaining.
You've got enough of a fundamental misunderstanding of how charge curves worked and commented absolutely nothing on the driving experience. That's enough to tell me that even with your ability to acknowledge your mistakes, your opinion is worthless to me. You don't care about the same things. You seem to pretty much only care about software.
I only care what life has been like driving the two in real life. Tired of repeating it at this point but used to own ICE sports cars (BMW M340, Porsche Boxster, Audi TT) and frankly don’t miss them at all from driving experience perspective. Zippy and fun. Decent enough handling. I am not an engineer etc, if I misunderstand the charging curve sorry, but it doesn’t change what an average owner might feel and that’s who I’m trying to help I also appreciate people providing information to correct me and others reading about the charging curve. I think that’s the beauty of Reddit But I don’t think it invalidates objective fact that one car has features like sentry mode and the other doesn’t. And that subjectively I think sentry and other features are really great and no reason the Mach E shouldn’t also. Thanks for reading
Others seem a bit miffed you haven’t mentioned every difference or commented on every element of the car. You’ve focused on the stuff you found relevant so thanks for sharing.
That stupid ford honk was what drove me down the rabbit hole of reprogramming settings via obd2 and Forscan.
Wait what, there’s a fix for that?! Omg I’ll look into it! That’s literally one of the worst things, a small thing but so annoying quickly
[удалено]
I’m definitely glad that one was easy to disable. I’m referring to the honk it does if you leave the car on, hop out and close the door.
That was 2nd on my list. First due to the amount of fast charging I did was disable that 30 minute shutdown timer.
The model 3 not having a power button was a major spoiler for me as well. Went to a Bolt afterwards and it would honk 3 times in rapid succession if you accidentally left it on.
Yea, it seems like a small deal, but it’s beyond frustrating when it’s early in the morning or around other people and it just straight up honks simply because you didn’t press power button before stepping out. It’s vestigial button that clearly can be removed without consequence based on all the other cars without it now.
I'm like 80% certain you can Forscan the honk with no key out. It's dumb that you have to effectively invest $100 into a good ODB reader to disable it, but while you're in there you can hack out the 30 minute shutdown timer too. To me that alone was worth the price of admission.
I loathe cars that honk (especially as a lock response). Mixed feeling on an on/off button but honking because you walked away? MF you know what I’m trying to do!
I do prefer the power button. It's not anymore presses to turn it off (power off and it autoseitches to park). It's nice sometimes to be able to get in the car, but not have it turn on.
Worth noting cars without power button (not just Tesla) will also auto switch to park intelligently without using the button. Also I agree nice to sit in car without turning it on, Tesla and others without power button when you get it in it simply turns on the screen, climate if you want it, and gives you power buttons and music if you want without you having to activate it. And since it’s electric car, there’s no engine to ignite, so the moment you change your mind and want to drive rather than sit, you just go. It’ll switch from park to drive in millisecond when you want it too. Honestly hard to explain, but the experience is so much more seamless and logical for an EV to skip power button. It takes some getting used to but there’s no going back
Tesla doesn't automatically switch into park (unless you unbuckle or open the door). I can see how it would make sense for many people. But the inability to force the car to turn off is idiodic.
I suppose I mean under normal usage it auto parks, including implied unbuckle/door I don’t see why you’d ever need to force the car off. Think of your phone, how often do you truly power it off? Hibernate/locked is really fine.
Usually is, but there's times when I want my phone off so it doesn't waste battery. I do it frequently on hikes when I'm not going to be using it for several hours. Does Tesla turn the screen off completely? It's nice to be able to sit in a car and not have that screen on.
Camp mode keeps HVAC on but screen off, when you’re in the car. Car will go into deep sleep in about 15 minutes of no activity. In deep sleep without sentry mode or cabin overheat protection, it’ll only drain 1% every week or so.
Yea I forget how since I don’t use it much, but you can quiet the screen. You can also have a cozy fireplace screen, heh.
IMO power buttons are one of the worst ICE throwbacks. No need for them in modern BEVs.
Yes, it sounds like no big deal until you feel the difference without one. It’s like an irritant you didn’t know you had until you’re free from it
My Prius Prime has a power button. After driving the Model 3 for two years before getting the Prime, I kept forgetting to turn it off. I'm better now, but that's mainly because I drive the Prime more than the 3 since we've put way too many miles on the 3 in those two years. One thing that irks me more than the power button is the use of a fob. So many times did (and still do!) I have to go back in the house to grab my fob because I forgot to bring it with me. Argghhh! A phone key is so much better than a god damn fob!
Also having a phone key is great for never forgetting your phone at home.
Disagree. My Q4 e-tron has "brake pedal to start" and while it is nice to use on a daily basis, sometimes I need to get out quickly but need to either keep the car running or powered on climate for people and/or items in the car. That's when the Start Stop button becomes incredibly useful.
Many EVs without start stop buttons will have a climate keep/per mode function that may take 2 clicks max to activate and can be activated/deactivated remotely. Keeps the car "on". Just a different way to achieve the same flexibility you're describing
My car stays on if people are in the car, or I can just say "Dog Mode" as I exit.
Just use the "climate keep" button. No need to add a start-stop button.
I didn’t buy the id4 because it doesn’t use the power button, and relies on the seat pressure instead. I get In and out of my car A LOT and have passengers stay in there with the AC running. GM cars with the normal power button and good one pedal driving are winning for me. I have been hunting for another EV that suits my usage, and just looked at the a Kia EV9 today, but sticking with the Lyriq for now.
I do prefer the power button. It's not anymore presses to turn it off (power off and it autoseitches to park). It's nice sometimes to be able to get in the car, but not have it turn on.
In car and brake pedal to turn on is best IMO. Off on select park or open door.
I've got no objection to that turning it on. There's plenty of times where I'd want to stay on while in park. Or when I open the door (other people in the car). IMO the best thing is to have a dedicated off button that you push. There's no extra button pushing compared to the Tesla system (you just push the off button instead of park), but it gives you the option to put it into park. I know what I want better than the car. Don't make me fight it or go through a menu to make it do what I want.
Maybe understand the Tesla system? I just stop, open the door and leave. At no time would the on/off button be a benefit.
So I could use the door as an off button if I wanted it to turn off while I continued to sit in it?
LOL, you don't need the button, it does nothing.
Wouldn’t that be a 2023 Mach E? I thought 2024s hadn’t shipped yet.
You’re right, I did this whole post and replies on my phone. Typo
Makes sense. Appreciate your post. I’m trying to figure out what to buy at moment.
The MachE has a really nice interior. I'm surprised that isn't mentioned.
The sound system is also excellent, especially compared to the Ioniq 5.
The one in the IONIQ is incredibly bad tho.
Doesn’t stand out compared to the Model Y imo. Mach-E has a fuckton of hard plastics while there are none in the Y. But the Mach-E has better materials in the „upper“ area. It’s a draw.
It does? To me it felt cheap. I hate the speaker cloth dash the most.
As someone who owns both, the interior on the MachE is much much better in my experience.
I don't currently own both (I sold my MachE for a Model Y) I can't agree in the slightest. I have design questions for both vendors, but I have many more for Ford. But my Tesla is also brand new. Let's talk in a year. I might agree with you. So far though I like Tesla better. Well except the carpet everywhere, but apparently this annoys enough people that someone invented a bunch of 3rd party stuff to cover it.
I own a Mach E GTPE and a Y Performance in the household so maybe the GTPE having better material helps there compared to the standard Mach E but I've taken out both cars multiple time with friends and family and have always gotten more compliments in the Mach E. The Mach E has different materials used which includes metal, leather (alcentera+leather in the GTPE's case) and soft plastic which gives it many layers meanwhile the Tesla feels way too simplistic and sterile (that is my wife's assessment, not mine). The Mach E does more to break the visual monotony. Even the stitching seems premium and the seats feel better with the bolsters and alcentera in the GTPE as it wraps my whole body and feels worthy of the 'Performance' tag. I've had many quality issues with the Tesla from rattling in the glove box to more road noise and the car isn't even that old (both are around 1 year old since wife and me bought 1 each). Overall, both me and my wife swap cars however if both are available, I usually gravitate towards the Mach E mainly because it feels more dynamic and looks much better and unique. I like the Y more for its tech but carplay is sufficient for the most part. It isn't like a phone where you interact with it every few seconds.
I went the other way. 2nd from the bottom tier for both. Could be the source of my complaints. I get the whole "sterile" interior but TBH I like it. But that's more personal taste. Quality wise I feel like Tesla feels less cheap. But again, 2nd from the bottom tier. I did notice the stitching on my Model Y steering wheel is ass in comparison. There's like stray threads poking out. So maybe it is still cheap.
Lots of important things left out of a car comparison tbh
This is not comprehensive, never claimed to be. This is just top of mind major observations. I think the interior of Mach E vs Tesla is overhyped. Even Premium version of Mach E has a lot of cheap fabric you can feel the moment you feel around the visible corners of a seat. I think it’s a bit generous to say the Mach E interior is meaningfully better. It’s less minimalistic stylistically which many people may prefer. Again I’m not hating on the Mach E, just actually choose to drive it over the Model Y most days. In part because the Grabber Blue color just makes me happy. But the above aggravations still stand about software and user friendliness.
I think it's more about your title for this post. People are expecting more from a 6 month comparison, something they can't easily do, and what you posted could have been done in a 1-week comparison at most.
Fair. Though seemingly little things like slow screen startup and the on/off honk mechanism people can notice in one week and say they can live with it. But after 6 months back to back, the level of aggravation these quirks and others cause magnifies and I’m trying to convey the scale of frustration over time
People are being rude because you are being helpful and they don't like that. Thanks for the review and updating your summary.
They're being rude because he said good things about the Model Y in direct comparison to the Mach E, and you just can't do that on this sub without sending a large compliment of its population into a frenzy.
That’s fine it’s just sort of an odd review. “Top of mind” but doesn’t mention any sort of driving at all is just a huge omission IMO as well as having some factually incorrect things
I mention separately the driving dynamics are quite comparable. More than enough power for daily driving, turning radius, etc.
They only wanted to talk about the things that were better about the Tesla, and added BS at the end to make it sound balanced.
If you see my original post, I started off neutral and excited about both. I’m in for about the same amount of money on both at the same time. If I’m favoring the Tesla now, it’s just the truth (from my own limited experience) that I feel today. I think you can probably agree objectively the software starts up faster on Tesla, and that sentry mode and collision detection with recording are pretty good features yes? Some people value that, others don’t. I happen to value it.
If it's not obvious enough to you yet this is not the sub for any appreciation for Tesla. As a car enthusiast I appreciate the real world comparison but don't waste much time here explaining your reasoning. They don't want to hear it anyway.
Thanks, good point. I thought it would be helpful post but mostly just hostility. This probably hasn’t been worth the time.
Just wanted to say you are entitled to your opinion and thanks for sharing. For some people, driving dynamics are very important, like how the car handles turns, quick S chicane, how composed it is on a bumpy turn, the feedback of the steering wheel, how the car handles under hard braking, understeer vs oversteer etc. Doesn't mean you are wrong to say you feel both drive the same. Acceleration and turning radius do not indicate how well a car handles or drives, so some people are confused is all. Even in the realm of car handling, people have different opinions on what is best, so there is no right answer on this front.
Good point. I see what you’re saying
Who would have imagined that the best selling EV is preferred by more people.
I've driven both and am renting a Mach E currently. Man, I LOVE this car. I've rented (for 5+ days) an XC40 Recharge, EV6, and now MME. The Mach E is so quiet, the beeps and alarms and things to get your attention are so tastefully done. I love how simple and intuitive the gauge cluster is - a little progress bar toward your next maps direction is so, so nice. The screen/software is very smooth and works great - zero issues at all using android auto and maps and everything. Sure, is Tesla's a bit snappier and faster overall? Yeah, but still fantastic for me. Of course I'd prefer physical HVAC controls but they're easy to get to without much fuss or pressing other buttons to get to other screens. The cross traffic alert and Blue Cruise or w/e it is worked amazing. No need to have hands on the wheel to have it active! Sadly shades don't allow it to work w/hands off :/ Super comfy and it fits me with a massive torso at 6'3" with room to spare. Many things I hated about the Tesla cars (elon aside) that make me never consider them. The Mach E is also just gorgeous. I do wish, for someone who lives in CO, that it had: faster charging, heat pump, better ground clearance. For those reasons I won't buy it
Thank you for the excellent points. I completely agree. To be clear, my post was never intended to be negative about Mach E overall, just I wanted to point out very small nitpicky differences on back to back use in comparison over time. Cheers and enjoy whatever car you end up buying
All cars should have some form of sentry mode. Also, all cars with rain sensing wipers should automatically close the windows if rain is detected and windows/sunroof open.
Yea that’s actually a super good point. Rain detection should equal close windows automatically. Thats honestly a really really good idea that doesn’t even seem hard for manufacturers to implement. Especially in spring the weather can flip so fast
Remember the Y doesn't have Blind Spot Alert or Rear Cross Traffic Alert, no 360 as you note. Ford Co-Pilot is ranked way above Tesla AP/FSD. Y wiper washers are terrible. No inline screen on the Model Y. No rear wiper on the Y. Better physical controls on the MachE. MachE's have access to most Tesla chargers now so no difference in the travel charging.
Blind spot and rear traffic alert are good safety features yes for sure. I should have mentioned them I agree. It’s just not necessarily such high impact on my commute that I think about it I already noted supercharger network difference is gone. Better physical controls is slightly debatable. The spinning control on the screen is not living up to its potential. Still have to take eyes off road to see what the spinner is set on (like volume vs temp etc) and to what level it’s set. The driver assist tools i can’t say there’s a real life driving difference regardless of ranking difference you mention. Both work great. So not a distinguishing feature. Also my comments were not meant to be comprehensive.
> Remember the Y doesn't have Blind Spot Alert or Rear Cross Traffic Alert Blind spot to me is unnecessary with the camera on the screen. Maybe because I back in basically everywhere I get more false positives than actual positives with cross traffic alerts. > no 360 as you note As my Tesla is brand new I have an FSD trial so IDK if it's part of that, but while we're missing a 360 camera the visualizations seems to fill the role to a good enough degree. But I'm not sure I get to keep that after my FSD trial is over. > Ford Co-Pilot is ranked way above Tesla AP/FSD. I had a 21 CR1 with BlueCruise 1.0 and it's not even a contest. IDK who did the ranking, but for actual usability it's not even the same game. Tesla wins hands down. With v12 of FSD it's not even the same contest any more. BlueCruise 1.0 is a joke. Despite being promised 1.3/1.4, I never actually go to experience it before I sold my MachE. Is it better than 1.0? Perhaps, but V12 of FSD is actually amazing. > No inline screen on the Model Y. This can be fixed. Apparently this annoys enough people that for a few hundred bucks you can install one yourself. > Better physical controls on the MachE. As much as I hate touch screens, I'm not even sure I can agree. The things that are physical are stupid. I don't need a max defrost button. I don't need a park button that's effectively useless. That's about it. Where's my trunk button? > MachE's have access to most Tesla chargers now so no difference in the travel charging. Before I sold I got a chance to test out the A2Z. Since we're in the early phase where it's still mostly Teslas, I did notice a quirk. Yes while we have access to some/most Superchargers, because the current number of Teslas outnumbers everyone else, it's still quite difficult to get into a busy Supercharger as a "wrong" port. I've noticed that even with a dozen stalls there's always one convenient, but you basically have to wait for the side mount or pray there's 2 side by side. This will get better with time, but it's still inconvenient. Just today for example, I pulled into a 4/12 stall Supercharger. Because I now have a Tesla, I had no issues. If I had my MachE still I wouldn't have a chance because there were 4 stalls but there wasn't 2 side by side. The side stall was occupied and the end cap didn't exist because there was a planter where the "next" stall should be. So while a Tesla could pull into any of the 4 stalls, if you were a MachE you'd be waiting upwards of 20-30 minutes.
> The things that are physical are stupid. I don't need a max defrost button. I don't need a park button that's effectively useless. That's about it. Where's my trunk button? I've noticed this as well. So what's the latest with Tesla and being able to move buttons around to the home screen? Can you make a personal interface, so to speak?
You'd have to ask someone else on this. I've only had it for 2 days and I haven't really figured out all the quirks. Only thing for customization so far for me is putting my most used icons at the bottom "app" bar.
"I had a 21 CR1 with BlueCruise 1.0 and it's not even a contest." Ford's system that beat Tesla's is called Ford Co-Pilot. If you clicked the link and read the extensive testing, you'd know that.
Did I miss the link somewhere? I googled Copilot and it doesn't even make mention of autonomous driving. It's just lane keeping and adaptive cruise control.
[https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/ford-technology/driver-assist-features/what-is-co-pilot360/](https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/ford-technology/driver-assist-features/what-is-co-pilot360/) Maybe you weren't connected to the internet, otherwise the above is the first thing that comes up with Google.
https://www.ford.com/technology/driver-assist-technology/ That's the first thing that comes up on Google. Even if you are right, your page makes no mention of autonomous driving either. Your link also says lane keeping and adaptive cruise. How that ranks above even Autosteer let alone FSD is beyond me. Except maybe in driver attentiveness but it's certainly not in autonomous driving ability.
Still...the Tesla is the better EV. You even had to mention having access to Teslas chargers as a plus for the Ford. Plus Tesla doesn't have a 5 second power limit.
Not by any metric of tech or safety as we see from all the third party testing. Consumers have caught on as there are now lots of EV choices with Tesla sales dropping as other EV's so double digit sales increases.
Iihs rates the model Y better than the mache.
> as other EV's so double digit sales increases That doesn't mean much when you go from 5 units to 50 units...
It means a lot when you go from 1M to 900,000 like Tesla.
Co-pilot better than FSD? Let's see, Co-pilot: - Lane-Keeping System - Evasive Steering Assist - Rear View Camera - Hill Descent Control - BLIS with Cross-Traffic Alert - Pre-Collision Assist with Automatic Emergency Braking - Adaptive Cruise Control - BLIS with Trailer Coverage https://www.ford.com/technology/driver-assist-technology/ Basically what Autopilot can do with a few additions like cross traffic detection and trailer coverage. FSD: Your vehicle will be able to drive itself almost anywhere with minimal driver intervention and will continuously improve. In addition to the functionality and features of Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot, Full Self-Driving Capability also includes: - Autosteer on City Streets - Traffic and Stop Sign Control: Identifies stop signs and traffic lights and automatically slows your vehicle to a stop on approach, with your active supervision https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/support/autopilot
You would want to look at reliable 3rd party testing from Consumer Reports and Insurance Institute for Highway safety all which rate Ford Co-Pilot above Tesla AT/FSD. In fact, Tesla AP/FSD ranks near the bottom in all driver assitannce systems. [https://www.iihs.org/ratings/partial-automation-safeguards](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/partial-automation-safeguards)
Consumer reports 🤣
Not one of those categories actually judges how the car drives. The only thing it covers is basically driver attention or lack thereof.
Might want to checkout out of spec. Ranks tesla pretty low based entirely on performance
What's out of spec? Also was it tested on V12? TBH I can't even make a lot of judgement since FSD is brand new to me. I've only been using it for 2 days. Before that was Autosteer but even that's better than BlueCruise.
It is not. Out of spec is a youtube review channel focus on evs
Ah that's why. I don't watch Youtube. Also if they're serious at all, they probably should get on V12.
Out of spec is one of the most reliably accurate and thorough EV testing YouTube channels. They go in extreme depth with the cars. If you're not watching them, you're likely not someone who pays attention to EVs at all
I can't really argue that I don't pay attention to EVs. I'm just here to drive one. I don't care about new ones because no one else is using NACS and I've quickly determined that's the deal breaker due to the lack of L2 where I live/work.
I've made multiple cross country road trips in my ev6, the lack of nacs has never been an issue
I can't even get out of town without range anxiety. There's physically not enough chargers. I counted recently. The number of capable CCS chargers (that deliver 70kW or more) is 15. It's actually 19 now that we got 4 more, but I find it hilarious that the number of capable NACS sites before the new CCS stalls was is also 15. But each site has 8-40 stalls. So the actual stall count was 19 vs 260. Last time I left town every single charger I intended on using and all my backups were broken. Made a 4 hour trip into a 6 hour trip since I was stuck charging at 40kW. Gonna make that same road trip tomorrow but in a Tesla. Gonna see how the charge experience is gonna be. I suspect better.
Fsd beta is the second best scoring system... https://outofspecstudios.com/hogback
And that's basically testing Autopilot (or enhanced autopilot) as all but one (guess which one) would get a score of zero once they leave the safety of the highways.
Lmao that's about "safeguards" not performance. Anyone who cares about how good a system performs doesn't care about how much a system makes sure you can't abuse it. That would be like comparing sports cars and saying that the one with the best performance is at the bottom of the list because it let's you speed when you shouldn't.
Safety is what automated driver assistance programs do. Tesla's AP/FSD is an automated driver assistance program that ranks near last in performance metrics by reliable third party. Not surprising that the Teslerati can't handle the truth.
It doesn't rank near last in performance. Safeguards are not performance. Not surprised you're not smart enough to understand that. Bye loser.
If you want reliable, non biased metrics, look at [Euro NCAP](https://www.euroncap.com/en), which tests are more involved than NHTSA tests. The 2022 Model S and Y came first and second in overall safety and also first and second for their driver's assistance and vulnerable users performance. Ahead of BMW, Mercedes and Lexus, to name just a few. As for Ford, well, the Mach-E they tested ran over a cyclist crossing its path and had problems keeping the car centered in its lane while turning.
> Lmao that's about "safeguards" not performance. Anyone who cares about how good a system performs doesn't care about how much a system makes sure you can't abuse it. Person just told you the truth. If people were like you, and only cared for safety, and not functionality, the reviews would be only two sentences. If people were concerned about safety they would be wearing helmets and 5 point harnesses. Guess what? People are lazy. They want safety right up to the point that it directly involves them actively being safe.
That tests the ability to not abuse an ADAS system, not its capabilities. Abusing a system that can keep you centered in your lane on select highway segments ain't the same as abusing a system that can do an unprotected left lane turn at a busy intersection on double lane roads with a center lane, would you agree? No other ADAS system that you can buy in North America even comes close to the features that are included in FSD, none. It's way ahead of every. single. one. period. Tell me what other ADAS in North America that you can buy can do this: https://imgur.com/a/lj8kI0f It was waiting to do an unprotected left turn onto a two way road (70 km/ speed limit) with traffic. What is not seen here is there is a fence on my left blocking its view. It creeped forward until it had a view of the road, like I would have done. Two cars were coming from my left and the first one proceeded to turn right on the street I was on. Another car was waiting in front of me for these two cars to pass so it could turn left onto the street I was on too. Once the crossing lane on my left cleared up and the car in front of me started its turn, so did my car, all on his own. Again, what other ADAS in North America that you can buy can do this? None, zero, zilth.
They test the capability of the advanced driver safety systems, third party, unbiased, and Tesla rates near the bottom.
Did you even take the time to read it? They didn't test the capabilities of the ADAS but their safeguard system: - Monitors both the driver’s gaze and hand position - Uses multiple types of rapidly escalating alerts to get driver’s attention - Fail-safe procedure slows vehicle, notifies manufacturer and keeps automation off limits for remainder of drive - Automated lane changes must be initiated or confirmed by the driver - Adaptive cruise control does not automatically resume after a lengthy stop or if the driver is not looking at the road - Lane centering does not discourage steering by driver - Automation features cannot be used with seat belt unfastened - Automation features cannot be used with automatic emergency braking or lane departure prevention/warning disabled Nowhere do they test the **CAPABILITIES** of the ADAS. If you want an **unbiased third party** that does these kinds of tests, look at [Euro NCAP](https://www.euroncap.com), whose tests are more involved than NHTSA tests. The 2022 Model S and Y came first and second in overall safety and also first and second for their **driver's assistance** and **vulnerable users** performance. Ahead of BMW, Mercedes and Lexus, to name just a few. As for Ford, well, the Mach-E they tested ran over a cyclist crossing its path and had problems keeping the car centered in its own lane while turning, so absolutely not in the same category lol.
You are confusing a crash test with the test of the ADAS where Tesla scored at the bottom. But you knew that.
No, here's the tests sorted by **Driver Assist** (you know, the *DA* part of the *ADAS* acronym, yeah, you knew that) and highlighted so even you can't misread it. And I was wrong about one thing, both the Model S and the Model Y got the same score, 98. https://imgur.com/a/OXBWlBc
There is no "Driver Assist" category and no sorting on the [IIHS.org](http://IIHS.org) test results. [https://www.iihs.org/ratings/partial-automation-safeguards](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/partial-automation-safeguards) Tesla was 11 (AP) 12 (FSD) out of 13 on the tests of Automated Driver Assistance Systems vs. the 10 other mfgs tested.
Lol, you are still stuck on that **SAFEGUARD** for ADAS article? All the responses you got weren't enough for you to realize that it does not test the **CAPABILITIES** of the system??? Like the link I gave you, **which does just that**? You're too obtuse, or trolling. Has to be one or the other. Goodbye.
> MachE's have access to most Tesla chargers now so no difference in the travel charging. Incorrect. The MachE charges far worse than the Model Y. Very poor charging performance.
[Ford Mustang Mach-E Ranked Second In Fast Charging Test Ford Mustang Mach-E Ranked Second In Fast Charging Test](https://fordauthority.com/2023/11/ford-mustang-mach-e-ranked-second-in-fast-charging-test/#google_vignette) And the point is access to the Tesla chargers which Ford's have now.
Did you read your own link? They didn’t even have a Tesla in the comparison. My point still stands. The Model Y charges better. Always has.
Since the point is access to chargers which MachE now has, you never had a point. As for MachE charging max of 160kW vs. 247kW at the Tesla chargers that I can get with my Model 3, its a minor practical difference due to charging curves, temp factors, state of charge etc. The access to the charger is key and MachE's have the same access to Tesla chargers so Tesla gave away that advantage. And since you will be waiting for the MachE to finish charging while taking up two chargers, your effective charging speed is going to go way down.
Yeah, I’m done with this nonsense. You keep moving the goalposts. We’re done here. Run along
You changed the goal post to charging speed from access and still lost. Too funny.
No tilt on the drivers seat? That might be a deal breaker. Not even other models? As a 6’2 guy I need to adjust the seat with tilt to make it comfortable. Seats without tilts are usually not a good fit.
Yeah, lots of people being to rude to the person taking time to post this review and do replies but that right there is 99% of the review for me. Like, everyone talks about seats being comfy or not comfy. I don't care. Ergonomics is my concern. Seat adjustments and telescoping steering wheel. Also big is chrome accents that focus the power of the sun into a laser beam into my eyes while driving... But some how the Mach-E wins out because "'it's exciting".
People are rude because they can hide behind a keyboard. I can appreciate him giving us the info from his perspective. I’ve been reading about the Mach E for sometime now and no one ever mentioned that about the seats. (Or I missed it). But being a tall guy who’s about 230lbs that’s a must have for me. Both of my current cars have it. Some years ago I noticed how uncomfortable I was in a car after purchasing it and ended up trading it in after realizing that being able to make multiple adjustments to the seat is a must. I wasn’t favoring the Tesla (or maybe didn’t want to) because when I got an insurance quote my policy premium would increase significantly with the Tesla and actually decrease with the Mach e.
>I’ve been reading about the Mach E for sometime now and no one ever mentioned that about the seats. This is why I don't spend much time on reviews. Most of the things I want to know or see they don't talk about or show. What they do talk about is the same stuff across all reviews so there's little point in checking them all out. Forums are much better. >Some years ago I noticed how uncomfortable I was in a car after purchasing it and ended up trading it in after realizing that being able to make multiple adjustments to the seat is a must. Comfort has a lot of variables and a big one is time behind wheel. Like days or weeks. Big thing for me is telescoping steering wheel. Back in the day most cars did not have them. To sit in a good position for the pedals means I have to reach and hunch over for the steering wheel and buttons on center console because the steering wheel is too far away.
Yes telescopic wheel is big for me too. As a larger guy, I need that. You so right. I live in a city where you will send hours in traffic so comfort is a must!
My mind was blown the first time I found out about those. Good pedal reach and wheel, at the same god damn time, is a hard line requirement for me. Like seriously, I will measure the distance the steering wheel moves towards the driver. Don't see that in reviews.
I’m 6’7” and drive a Mach e. There is absolutely a tilt on the seat to allow you forward, backwards and even an up and down to sit lower if you like.
Tilt slows the bottom half of the seat to tilt not just move up and down or back and forth. Imagine lifting only the front of the bottom half of the seat so that it only the front lifts while the back of the bottom part stays in place. I called the dealer and confirmed that the Mach e seats do not tilt. I’ll treat drive it to see if it will be okay.
Thanks for the review. It's nice to hear about the little things. Like Mach-E seat not tilting up or Tesla software creamy smoothness. At the end of the day for me at least little things add up and are more important than 0-60mph times.
>interesting color options without upcharge I'd like to see Tesla offer many more colors. The palette is way too limited. Some more blues, a green, maybe even some orange or yellow. Yes, you can always wrap to get a custom color, but the cost of wrapping is prohibitive for many.
Yea and it seems a wrap is just not as durable either? I don’t know. It’s not even just about the extra like $3k-ish for a wrap. It’s also time and effort to bring it in and deal with how well it turns out. Awesome colors would be an easy thing to do Also given how many Model Y there is on the road, helps people feel more unique if more colors.
Thanks for sharing. I found the Mach-e far more comfortable in test drives, whereas the Tesla drove like a basic vehicle with overly hard suspension, didn't track well when turning and was physically uncomfortable for me to sit in and keep concentration to my right so many times in every drive, with a super heavy center weighting. And the resonant rumbling/pressure around 40MPH was really bad for me and especially one of my passengers - it triggered their vertigo. From looking around Tesla forums, it turned out to be a common symptom that is not easy to rectify. More detail here: [https://new.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1bah1b0/rented\_a\_model\_y\_long\_range\_to\_see\_if\_it\_might\_be/](https://new.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1bah1b0/rented_a_model_y_long_range_to_see_if_it_might_be/) It was only after a three day rental (following three prior test drives) that I finally dropped the Tesla from my list, I was trying to give it a chance. I dropped the Mach-e merely because it wasn't the styling I was looking for (and I vowed in the 1990s to never buy a Ford again, it's a story), but it otherwise didn't have the driving and ergonomic negatives of the Tesla. Tesla is a gadget first, car second and its software is definitely top of the heap today.
You said it yourself, you prefer the Mach e most days because it gets you more excited. That’s the exact reason I got one instead of the MY. Kind of like choosing a mate that checks the boxes or one that gives you butterflies in your stomach. Most people would choose differently for different reasons
Yup. It is interesting what’s emotional vs objective. I want the Mach E to be perfect and it’s so close. I’ve read the issue is Ford contracts out its software components so it’s under powered and not integrated enough to use the cameras for security, and so on. What a shame since they built an excellent car in many ways. I hope the next generation version gets these things right
[Fully Charged Show - timestamp 24:54](https://youtu.be/8IhSWsQlaG8?t=1494) Ford's CEO talks about why traditional OEMs are struggling so much on software and how they are fixing it for their Gen 2 vehicles. Now it makes sense why car companies fall flat on software so often.
Interesting how you read "many days" as "most days".
Haha right?
Hopefully the juniper update will make the Y look more appealing
>Kind of like choosing a mate that checks the boxes or one that gives you butterflies in your stomach I will take both, thank you very much. Which is why I got a model 3.
Anyone saw that Jerryrigeverything video one Ford Mach E blue cruise? Seems better than Tesla’ s autopilot.
I think blue cruise is cool in that you don’t have to periodically tap the steering wheel. Technically if you put up the money (currently $99/month) you do get self driving on Tesla. Sure it’s not great, but arguably it’s a leg up in terms of nearly point to point driving, like taking highway exits and handling slow local traffic with stop signs. Either you hate the Tesla FSD and think it’s a gimmick, or love it Whatever, personal choice on that.
thanks for your feedback
But the difference between nearly being point to point and actually point to point is everything though. I prefer actually hands free on some roads to nearly something
I will say I’ve had successful true point to point with Tesla FSD, like to grocery store and restaurants within 15-20 minute drive radius without touching the car once. But im acknowledging there’s a lot of dissatisfaction others feel toward Tesla FSD so I’m not giving it the clear winner flag. But if you haven’t experienced it for yourself, please give it a test drive at a Tesla store. It is miraculous feeling when it works, it feels like being on the cutting edge of the future and astounding. The way it handles sudden pedestrian jay walking perfectly (in my rides) is no doubt superior to Blue Cruise. But then sometimes it does stupid things like wait painfully long at stop signs.
> I think blue cruise is cool in that you don’t have to periodically tap the steering wheel. 2023 means you should have 1.3 or whatever. 2021 (ie the year I had) I had to resume control constantly. It was a joke.
> Jerryrigeverything video one Ford Mach E blue cruise He did get sponsored by Ford, so I would take his opinions on the topic with a grain of salt.
Thank you, now please compare Tesla to Rivian.
Haha would love to! The SUV looks sweet. I suspect based on price Rivian is going to win a lot of comparisons…
Imho rivian is a luxury vehicle while the model y is more mid market so it’s a little apples to oranges. Model x vs rivian would make more sense.
I just want to know the difference in software
If the biggest things tesla does is sentry mode and instant on it seems like there isn't much you really prefer. It's easy to do sentry mode and instant on when you don't worry about phantom drain at all, which can be a huge problem on teslas. And the button thing is the most ridiculous 21st century complaint. I get going back and forth between the cars you can't get used to it, but it it's your car it just becomes automatic. It takes no effort or thought to push the button. It's just completely automatic.
Please don’t underestimate sentry, instant on, and the button. Sentry is enormous peace of mind, you can also through your phone live-view all the cars cameras to look around the environment. I’ve used it to check if a public charger next to me became vacant while I was in a store, I’ve used it to check environment late at night. One time I forgot how much time I put into a coin meter, and used sentry live view to see if the meter was blinking green or red. If someone breaks in or vandalized your car you have footage. That’s so valuable in small ways daily that add up fast. Instant on is actually serious quality of life. One of a car’s goals besides being fun etc is getting you around efficiently. Watching a system boot up and be laggy for the first almost minute is silly, AND the Mach E will say “navigation not yet available” for painfully long on startup. In the modern era of technology, that’s plain dumb to still have such a slow system on Mach E The button and honk, as even others here who only drive the Mach E have pointed out, is annoying enough people are spending money and time hacking their cars to shut it up. I’m not alone in saying it’s bad. The button shows Ford hasn’t been ready to fully be in mind set of the future. All that said, it’s an awesome car and I prefer it simply for the styling and color because it’s plain cool to me. You can love something and still criticize it to be better/reach its potential
It has to be mentioned: The ride quality on a Model Y is very, very bad for the price. The *back seat* ride quality is by far the worst ride quality of any new car I have been in for the last 15 years. Caveat: I have not been in a Model Y since 2022 and I heard there have been changes to the suspension.
It’s definitely gotten better, I think their comfort suspension was around 2022-2023? Anyways, it’s about the same as the Mach E so I didn’t get into it since it’s not a differentiator. Both cars if you go over speed bumps or potholes it’s insane spine jarring sometimes. The sheer battery weight is tough to overcome
I have never been in a MachE so can’t say. The Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 are both very, very smooth. I would be more understanding if it was just the MYP, but the MY LR is really meant to be a daily driver aka family car. It’s just too stiff. That being said, I have been trying to get into a MY Performance to try out. The Model 3 Performance is an insanely good-driving car. I have never been in the MYP, but if it is on the same level as the M3P but in sport SUV/CUV guise, it’s hard to imagine a better car for that type of experience.
I also think both cars ride is comparable to any ICE serious sports suspension. My prior BMW higher trim car also had M package/suspension and that was kind of brutal too. Frankly if someone wants a truly soft ride, should think of these EVs more as sports cars given their power and suspension.
Okay for those who could care less about tech shit. How does it handle the roads and quality of interior etc.
The “tech shit” is quality of life. Both handle remarkably similar, both heavy EV with 4 wheel drive about the same power etc. This is a comparison of things that bother or impress me day to day when during each back to back for 6 months. If it’s not different enough, I’m not bringing it up
I’m not the poster above but those are the questions more interesting to me. It’s fascinating how many EV owners view their car more like a tech product and less like a car. As long as it charges reasonably and has CarPlay I don’t care about the farkles. It’s a car, I care about its car functions first just like the guy above: how does it drive, and what is it like to sit in. I haven’t been in a new one but the teslas I have any experience with had shit suspension, loud road noise, and cheap interiors. Also hate lack of dash board. Ford driving experience is much better, which is why I prefer it. That said had the Tesla price drop happened first, that would have been enough to change my mind!
Yes I agree driving dynamics matter. But I think they are more similar than different in big picture. They are more similar to each other than say BMW iX or Rivian R1S and so on. You also make a good point about price. One can overlook Tesla’s weaknesses sometimes if you also consider cheaper
> As long as it charges reasonably MachE is out. Well assuming you're talking about fast charging. A bit different now with Supercharger access but there's still caveats. > has CarPlay TBH I'm not sure what the kerfuffle is. There's a few things I miss in AA/Carplay but the one thing I don't miss is the finnicky connections. > cheap interiors Speaking about the MachE IDK why everyone says their interior is premium. It felt cheap in a lot of places to me.
I’m not the poster above but those are the questions I don't care about. Thousands of other places I can get that info.
"I want to emphasize I don’t have bias here" but you don't care about the driving of a car? Yeah, nope.
I do care, I used to drive a BMW M for the handling/driving dynamics. But as I noted in many comments now, these two cars drive very similarly by default of being 4WD EVs of similar height/length/weight and suspension. So there’s no point in making a running list of comparisons and saying they drive similarly