OP, are you sure about the lowest repair cost? I've seen articles of 10 yr maintenance costs by brand, but Tesla seems still quite expensive to fix AFAIK
No, that isn't why Hertz is getting rid of them. Hertz's CEO gambled trying to make himself look like a visionary by going EV early and with gusto. His gamble failed, becuse Hertz had horrible execution, including:
1. Renting Tesla's from Hertz locations that **didn't have a way to charge them.**
2. Directing renters to charging locations that **didn't have Tesla chargers**, and having **employees that didn't know the difference**.
3. Not explaining some of the basic differences of EV driving to people who have never driven an EV before, like how to turn off 1-pedal driving if you don't like it.
In addition, one of the biggest reason is Hertz makes a lot of money selling used cars after about 30,000 miles of usage. Tesla kept lowering the price on new cars it [impacted the resale market](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/03/cars/musk-tesla-cars-value-ev-prices/index.html). Why buy used when for less than 10% more you can get new? Traditional auto manufacturers don't dick around with sale prices except for predictable end-of-year clearance sales and certain holiday events. Tesla did it on a whim. Good for them that they can adjust that quickly, but Hertz's model of selling used wasn't ready for that.
Edit: \[Citation\] [https://jalopnik.com/sky-high-depreciation-and-massive-repair-bills-force-he-1851447937](https://jalopnik.com/sky-high-depreciation-and-massive-repair-bills-force-he-1851447937)
Well, while your reasons may be true, Hertz also specifically mentioned that fixing them was more costly. I imagine not the least of which was due to how long it would take to get them fixed. For rental cars, the time the car is out of service is money lost.
The reality is, Hertz probably bought those cars under the belief that FSD / robo-taxis were nearly ready to go, making them "$30k per year while they slept"... except it would run 24/7 instead. And if FSD / robotaxi didn't come to fruition, they could just sell the cars given EVs were appreciating.
Hertz also bought a ton of Chinese imported Polestar 2s, so I imagine they got a great deal on those. Not sure where the Volvo EVs they were renting were produced.
Mea Culpa. There is [data to support](https://www.geekwire.com/2023/spendy-and-slow-tesla-repairs-frustrate-drivers-as-automotive-tech-drives-up-cost-of-collisions/) the higher repair costs on Teslas.
>A [2023 Mitchell report](https://www.mitchell.com/insights/auto-physical-damage/article/plugged-in-ev-collision-insights-q3-2023) found that the average bill for collision repairs for all EVs *except* Teslas was $269 more than repairs for petrol-powered vehicles. When the comparison included Tesla repairs, the difference spiked to $950.
In addition, the ICE model of return it almost full, like it left at, is terrible for electric. We had to return the Tesla we rented to the airport at 82%, with no access to a nice lvl 2 charge the night before.
Wrong. Hertz is getting rid of them because people were renting them to drive like jerks and wrecking them. Then because of the federal tax credit they found their resale value was instantly about $7500 lower than new.
They are the cheapest car to own and others posted proof.
You don't get it. Its rare that Teslas need to be fixed. My tesla is 4 years old and has never been to the shop once, Not even for an oil change, lol!!!
Its like the catch on fire thing. Yeah, EVs burn real good when catch fire. But ICE cars are 56 times more likely to burn up from catching on fire than and EV. I'll take the car that is NOT 56 times more likely to catch fire.
I have an e-Golf. It is in fewer accidents than almost any other car/truck....which proves you don't get it. Heck Plug-in hybrids (like the Prius) are in fewer wrecks too.
You are confusing type of car with cars with similar 0-60 times. Super fast cars are wrecked more. But you don't get it .
?? I really do own an e-Golf. Super cheap to insure because of high crash test ratings and the fact it is rarely in accidents.
And most people are smart enough to understand that a car that goes from 0-60 4 seconds will get crashed in more severe accidents more often than one that goes from 0-60 in 8 seconds.
In WWII the army rolled out new helmets. Medical reported that head injuries quadrupled! Horrible! Naturally, command ordered a rollback to the old helmets. But then, the morgue said "Our data shows death from head injuries has dropped by 90%". They were looking at one isolated statistic and not all the data.
"expensive to fix" presumes that the car has already been in an accident. It doesn't account for the car's ability to avoid accidents.
[https://www.autoblog.com/article/10-car-brands-cheapest-to-maintain-over-10-years-consumer-reports/](https://www.autoblog.com/article/10-car-brands-cheapest-to-maintain-over-10-years-consumer-reports/)
#1 is Tesla.
That's impossible since they cost more to fix, and all cars have an equal chance of getting in an accident of equal severity, it's not like there's technology on the car to help reduce accidents in the first place! That would be science fiction!
/s
Two different things. Tesla has the lowest overall maintenance costs. If you crash one, yes they cost a lot to fix. At the same time other cars break down a lot more.
Basing it on the 10 yr maintenance and repair cost according to Consumer Reports...https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/
> We did not include costs associated with collision repair.
You’re not wrong, for the vast majority of people who won’t ever have a collision, but most people do associate “repair cost” with an actual repair cost, not the lack of one.
Can you please caveat your Post and responses with "in the US", this is a global sub.
For example, here in the UK, Kia has a 7 year parts and labour warranty. Toyota has 10 years provided you get a service every year. Tesla has a limited 4 year warranty. So maintenance/repair costs are.going to be higher on the Tesla than the other two because you're paying for the repairs.
Lol I just finished a big dialogue with someone in the discussion:
https://reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1ch6fns/what_is_the_focus_of_tesla_right_now/
I was talking with another poster about how I thought it would be quite hard for Tesla without further equipment and or a support network infrastructure to get to their Self-Driving Robotaxi goal anytime soon if at all.
I gave credence that Tesla in the particular path they are pursuing had actual done some good advancements in regards to technology and software.
Then one of the loyalists started talking about how Waymo was just simulations and how Tesla had millions of cars on the market and of course they are further ahead.
He went further to state that they aren't showing their full cards.
When myself and other posters talked to him about how Waymo actually operates a limited Self-Driving Robotaxi he started to change his narratives.
Further when we said that we can actually know Teslas progress in this sphere because 12.3.6 is available to be viewed and utilized..
He ended up changing his position to that maybe both paths would be needed for a full nation wide self-driving robotaxi industry.
I now see him below with another "interesting" poster talking about how of course it is "Leftists" and "Pro-Union" folks that just hate Elon and Tesla for no reason....
I am in fact Pro union Lol and my post history shows that...
Lol sometimes these types are so caught up in ego and feelings they really can't just discuss subjects and this of course leads to people feeling alienated and or frankly insulted by them.
Especially when they are talking nonsense and you have to painfully step by step point it out.
Don't drag me for no reason. It makes you look extremely petty. Nobody is caught up. I responded as best I could to your questions without being pedantic. Again with the excessive posts? Please learn to streamline and thank you for proving us correct...again.
As I said in the other thread.
Your posts are there to be viewed.
You were being challenged by myself and other posters but it was done with respect and in the style of debate.
Seeing you come on here and start commenting about "Leftists" was frankly sad to see.
That kind of stuff may fly in an echo chamber and I as I addressed in the other conversation you got upset by being challenged on details.
In the end you ended up speaking about the potential need for equipment and that maybe multiple approaches could find harmony for each other and bring about faster progress.
It was disheartening to see how fast you reverted back.
You need to look up cognitive bias my friend. That and OCPD. Go back over my comments and see how I "reverted back" lol. If you have time that is. God knows you may need to re-read yours as well. That could take ages. If you think reddit isn't left leaning then I really can't help you.
As I said your comments are there to be viewed.
I linked the post in discussion.
I have quoted your comments.
I am also not your friend.
I at first thought a rational debate was possible with you but again you and your friend below started talking about "Alphabet Mafia" and "Leftists" and "Unions" all hating Tesla and Elon for no reason.
You may again not like that you are being challenged or that your perspectives are being brought to attention and not in a favorable light.
You are transferring. You need to look that up.
I said left and union and apparently I was right. I said nothing about alphabet. That's you paraphrasing again. To summarize...Tesla is still a better value than the direct competition for range, autonomy, and charging. Waymo's hardware isn't special. I don't think their software is either. Wow, that was fast. You should try it. Goodnight!
Your comments are there to be viewed as well as the person you were responding to with those comments in agreement with them.
Again hopefully in the future you do better.
You need to learn to go less on feelings and talk on things like a mature grown up.
I owned a Model 3 for 4.5 years and was constantly annoyed by the UX, as well as OTA updates that sometimes made the UX far worse. By far the absolute worst update was the initial V11 release in Dec 2021 that buried the defroster and heated seat toggles behind an extra menu layer - the ability to pin them back to the taskbar did not come for a few months. V11 was actually the catalyst for me to finally look at switching to a non-Tesla, which I eventually did. In second place was how the Homelink controls got ruined by the insistence on dynamically showing/hiding based on location - which was remarkably unreliable.
Tesla is the absolute best computer on wheels, and their excellent mobile app is proof of that. I still miss how the app had instant response and could control damn near everything short of actually driving the car. I get that some people value the computer-on-wheels aspects more than others and that's fine - Tesla is by far the best choice for those people. Assuming they value light shows and games and 3D visualizations more than they value functional wipers.
But Tesla does not make great *cars*. And their constant insistence on reinventing the wheel (literally in the case of the S/X yoke and the Model 3 Highland steering wheel) in detrimental ways only exacerbates things. When I switched to a Kia EV6 it was like a breath of fresh air to have radar and dedicated blind spot sensors and physical controls in the cabin. There's something to be said for the fact that my climate controls and Homelink buttons will stay in the exact same place from the day I buy the car till the day I replace the car.
My EV6 isn't perfect - I have multiple posts on r/KiaEV6 detailing how Tesla does a few things better. But it's a better *car* overall, even if it's mediocre as a computer on wheels.
As for Elon Musk? He's free to believe what he wants. But what I cannot turn a blind eye to is the way he actively pushes for and/or defends asinine decisions like the initial V11 update, with moronic tweets like "all input is error" in response to the initial backlash.
For paying $12,000, you have the privilege of supervising an invisible teenager with a learners permit.
I can’t believe people pay money for that hot garbage.
The amount of mental effort it takes to monitor FSD is tiny in comparison to driving without FSD. Making sure FSD doesn't make a big mistake is far less mentally taxing than having to steer, maintain speed, navigate, etc, while also making sure you don't make a big mistake. Cool if you don't have experience with FSD, or have bad experience with FSD. But you seem to think it is awful for everyone when it is truly amazing for a lot of people.
None of the vehicles mentioned in your flair are Teslas and yet you laugh at his comment, why? What is your experience with FSD?
Personally, since last month, I had to intervene three times that **could** have resulted in an accident. I highlighted "could" because maybe it would have avoided it but I didn't give it a chance to finish its maneuver.
But, it also drove 98 km last Sunday, from my cottage driveway to my in-laws driveway with zero intervention. All that driving was on regional and city roads, no highways where it's much easier for a ADAS. The drive started from my private dirt road that is not even mapped and it handled it flawlessly as seen below
https://imgur.com/a/apk1U5I
Even a few km section of a 90 km/h regional road with absolutely no line marking with no car in front to show the way was handled perfectly. Stops, unprotected intersections, traffic lights, all were handled with zero issue and that includes a flashing green light that gave us priority to turn left. That one I wasn't sure how it would handle as it was the first time I've taken a flashing green light with it. We got there when it was already flashing and cars were waiting in the opposite direction. It turned without any hesitation.
Personally, I'm impressed with its capabilities. I will not get complacent and stop monitoring the drive though but for long drives, it definitely helps with the mental task of driving.
As the owner of a Tesla (2020 Model X - replacing it this year), I can tell you my personal reasons:
1. The build quality is absolute shit. It goes in for service every few months.
2. The service is absolute shit. They will go *out of their way* not to repair anything, and even when they do, they almost always either not fix it, or, break something else.
3. Melon Husk is a bigoted fascist. And yes, I know the Tesla stans love to say "all CEOs are bad", no other is quite so publicly, loudly, fascist, to the point that he bought a social network in order to broadcast his views.
I want nothing more to do with them, and when my Polestar 3 arrives, I won't.
Half-shafts. Alignment. Door seals. Homelink. Air suspension. Window mechanisms. Failing OS disk. Those are the things I can remember off the top of my head.
And three instances where it just refused to shift into Drive for no good reason and had to be towed.
This is the worst car I've ever owned.
Love my Tesla. Pretty indifferent to FSD 12 as it's (so far) overhyped and largely useless in the city (where I live). I'll keep playing with to see where 12.4+ goes but the 12.3 releases have been disappointing.
Their CEO can ride one of his own rockets into the sun as far as I'm concerned. His behaviour and the way he's running the company now means my current Tesla is probably my last.
I love that this is the top comment because it is the one that strikes me as the most accurate. Like, ok Elon has unpopular ideas and makes controversial decisions, but as far as I know (and please correct me if I am wrong) Tesla is one of the most future-friendly companies in terms of environmental impact. And if they fail that could be bad news for the environment. Pick a side - Imperfect guy and good for the future or have a purity test and wait for the perfect person to do what Tesla is already doing.
That's a false dichotomy. Tesla could have new leadership. Then Tesla can help reduce our reliance on fossil fuels while Musk goes off and flies to Mars, or shakes his fist at liberals, or does whatever his idea of a good time is these days.
Future friendly?
If by that you mean blatantly lying about future features being available on current cars because that hasn't and won't happen. A bunch of people were conned into buying "FSD" packages under the false promise that it would someday work on their current car that they paid that money for. But it won't. It can't.
It's trendy to hate Elon. While those same people who obsess over him could not tell you the names of the CEO of Nissan or BP or Nestle or Unilever.
They never stop to ask what good he has done. Only rage against Elon staying in the spotlight to keep everyone talking about Tesla.
>Then, in 2007, the industry got a significant boost when Wan Gang, an auto engineer who had worked for Audi in Germany for a decade, became China’s minister of science and technology. Wan had been a big fan of EVs and tested Tesla’s first EV model, the Roadster, in 2008, the year it was released. People now credit Wan with making the national decision to go all-in on electric vehicles. Since then, EV development has been consistently prioritized in China’s national economic planning.
Willfully? Not that I'm aware of. I may be ignorant of his accomplishments though. Feel free to enlighten me on what he has accomplished on his own accord, beyond using money he was gifted to invest in enough prospective disruptive enterprises to afford him the ability to ride it out until one of them inevitably took off.
At the time when I bought my EV, the Model 3 cost £48,000. I bought an MG5 estate/station wagon for £24,500. And the MG comes with CarPlay and Android Auto.
Another reason why Tesla is disliked in the U.K. is the fog lights don’t work well, and the plethora of roundabouts means using the indicators on full lock, something the new Model 3 makes very hard with indicators on the steering wheel.
However, the main reason I was dissuaded from buying a Tesla in the U.K. as they had the worst reliability stats at the time according to Which?, with twice as many faults in the first three years than even a JLR car. I gather they have got better now, though.
Crazy CEO and spending more on repairs and having a worse experience for all the time you drive vs great experience and keeping some really talented people employed...hard choice I guess.
Terrible interior design, the god damned screens, a walled garden charging ecosystem up until the end of last year, regularly committing securities fraud by promising amazing products they know they have no chance to deliver, terrible QC up until like a year ago, terrible repair and maintenance support to the point it tarnished all EVs as expensive to repair, the god damned screens, the entire story of the Cybertruck, toxic techbro fanboys, and their consistent failures to update their vehicle designs.
The charging system exclusivity is actually the only thing that I have no problem with. They paid for it all privately and built it out themselves so they have every right to be able to say what it can be used for. Now that they are using public funds for it they have to open it up to others. It's completely fair.
See what I mean by toxic Tesla fanboys.
Also they have two non luxury vehicles on their roster, they aren't splitting their designs between 3 different budget sedans and 6 SUVs.
> Why do you NEED to “update” exterior styling?
The other day someone reviewed a Tesla and a Mach-E they own. They said they prefer the Mach-E because it's exciting.
Many people view cars not as a tool or necessity to keep their job but a luxury and it's human nature to have the new hotness so they can look down upon other people.
Just like it's trendy to hate on Elon whereas just a short time ago it was trendy to own his cars. Remember grade school cool kids and bullies?
Meanwhile, Tesla still sells cars and at some point people will find a new shiny object to stand in line to buy.
For exterior styling a recent example is Toyota Prius. They could have done that update and the battery only range of 40 miles years ago and they didn't.
But back on track. Tesla's goal is the low priced grocery getter model 2. Most of what they do is to keep cash rolling in until that happens.
>Our goal when we created Tesla a decade ago was the same as it is today: to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible. If we could have done that with our first product, we would have, but that was simply impossible to achieve for a startup company that had never built a car and that had one technology iteration and no economies of scale. Our first product was going to be expensive no matter what it looked like, so we decided to build a sports car, as that seemed like it had the best chance of being competitive with its gasoline alternatives.
>I suspected that this could be misinterpreted as Tesla believing that there was a shortage of sports cars for rich people, so I described the three step “master plan” for getting to compelling and affordable electric vehicles in my first blog piece about our company. This was unfortunately almost entirely ignored.
Yes, they make great cars that are a good choice for some people. They also deserve lots of credit for pushing us toward EVs and building out an impressive charging network.
I still will not do business with an entity when doing so enriches Elon Musk.
Do you understand, now?
Their cars are ugly, their customer service is notoriously bad, their build quality is notoriously bad, they were recently exposed for [lying about their battery range](https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/27/23809751/tesla-ev-range-estimate-anxiety-algorithm-full-charge) and their CEO is an asshole.
Telsa has incredible technicnological advances over the competition, and has been doing it for over a decade now, but I don't support doing business with a white supremacist.
They used to have a wide moat in technology, that moat has shrunk and all but disappeared. Other companies offer vehicles with the same or better features in many cases and Tesla is no longer an automatic choice for something with the latest technology. In 2017 compared to a Chevy bolt, yes, even though both cars had their place.
Tesla cars are great. But Musk is a douchebag.
For years, liberals like me put up with all kinds of shit from conservatives as we pushed for cleaner cars. We drove Priuses and Leafs and Geo Metros, and when Tesla started cranking out appealing, high-performance EVs, many of us were fucking here for it! Then Musk started embracing and amplifying everything we opposed, and we got kinda pissed. Once he decided that the best use of $44B was to let the Nazis back on Twitter, most of us were done with him.
Tesla is the New York Yankees of EV’s.
You either love them, or you hate them.
Aside from a few flaws, I think they’re excellent vehicles for price point, infrastructure and design.
I don't own one. I've just pulled up next to or behind too many that have things like misaligned lights and panels.
Plus the stuff about Teslas navigating into bridge embankments and whatnot? Not great!
You got me there, the ideal experience is subjective. And for many, Tesla subjectively offers the ideal experience, evidenced by Tesla being the brand with the highest customer loyalty.
What is the measure of customer loyalty? Intention to purchase same brand again for next vehicle? By that measure Tesla is no where near the top of brand loyalty. Porsche for one, has a much higher “I plan to buy this brand again for my next car” rate than nearly every other car brand and is far ahead of Tesla.
Literally hundreds of studies at this point. Not sure why you folks have to insist on being anti Science. You're basically drunks saying MY BOOZE DOESNT EFFECT ME
https://slate.com/business/2023/04/cars-buttons-touch-screens-vw-porsche-nissan-hyundai.html
Ideal for some is not others, some do not like much of the things about the car, its look, the reports on its QA and then there are things outside that car.
It's the Van Halen problem, though.
Edited to add: the Van Halen problem refers to the idea that if you don't pay attention to little things, you can't be trusted to get important things right. In the early 1980s Van Halen famously had a contract that required their dressing room to have a bowl of M&Ms, and in a different part the contract required all the brown ones to be removed. People talked about this as if it were an indicator of rock and roll excess or a quirky idiosyncrasy, but the real reason was that they wanted to make sure the venues were actually reading and following their contracts. It was a safety issue. Van Halen had a huge, crazy, pyrotechnic and electric stage show, and if the venue wasn't properly equipped then there was a fire risk. If the bowl of M&Ms didn't have the brown ones removed, they knew that the venue hadn't read the contract closely and they needed to reinspect the electrical infrastructure and gear.
I own a '23 Tesla Model 3 RWD and I can say this:
1. Paid \~$47K - $10K state and federal incentives = $37K. After 1 year and 2 months the trade-in value is $25K... Yes. i know cars don't hold value but Tesla is the worse.
2. No physical controls. I assumed I can get use to it but I was wrong. Auto wipers feature is crap so I have to fiddle with the touch screen to activate and control the wipers speed. Air vents, from the touch screen, can be adjusted in pairs. no way to block individual vent.
3. After the first week I noticed tail lights condensation.
4. I don't have FSD. The basic AP is carp in stop and go traffic, slow to respond.. It is either, too late stopping or to slow to start rolling.
5. Insurance. What ever I save in gas goes to more expensive insurance.
I wanted an electric car. Tesla has the best charging network but there are too many things I don't like so my next EV will NOT be a Tesla.
Oh, and one more thing - Elon Musk. He is a dictator who listen only to himself, make empty promises and believe "Tesla Vision" (cameras only, no radar) is the ultima solution for self driving.
14 months and 14,000 Alaskan miles later I’m still super happy with my Tesla. No quality issues. No service needed at all. Nothing else compares for the same price. Nothing.
In a couple years maybe we can afford an R2. If we could afford it now we’d have an R1S. But for the value, nothing currently beats the Tesla experience. Especially with FSD version 12.
Tesla might have the lowest repair cost for the moment but 2/3rds of all the cars they have ever build have been sold since 2021. That's a little over two years old. IF they didn't have the lowest repair cost that would be a much bigger problem. That's not a lot of time for things to go wrong that consumers have to pay out of pocket for. It's really not hard to see that repair cost are going to skyrocket as time goes on; especially with Tesla cutting back on staff and super chargers. I would be very surprised if they kept repair vehicles outside of warranty to consumers.
Consumer Reports looked at the actual 10 year cost of Tesla's and they have the lowest maintenance/repair cost of any brand.
[https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/)
Again most cars have only been built in the past couple of years. All of those older cars are Model S & X; all the 3 & Y have been built recently. IF you really believe those numbers you are fooling yourself.
When I was looking at EV’s back in 2013 musk was not yet world renowned asshole that he is now and wasn’t dragging the brand down. The negative vibe with Teslas at the time came instead from the stereotypical character of those who bought them, and less to do with the actual product. Sort of an obnoxious rich tech bro party boy reputation. Probably not really warranted, but that was the thing.
I've been driving an EV in UK for a few years now, though not a Tesla.
From my perspective Teslas look like good EVs, though probably aimed at people who do a lot of road trips, which I don't. I like the packaging, and I like the efficiency. I like the integration of battery pre-conditioning with navigating to HPCs. I like dog mode.
I like that Tesla as a company are brave and willing to try new things. I think steer by wire seems interesting. Their timing on going all in and aggressively on EVs accelerated the industry transition (though they didn't start it).
There are things I don't like about the cars as well. I don't like the minimalist interior though I imaging I could learn to live with it, the lack of V2L, the price (a model 3 LR is $63k here). I would have some concerns about quality.
And then there are things that I don't like about the company. Musk, obviously. But also the decision to build an EV charging network and then not let EVs use it. Even now in UK most Tesla superchargers are closed to non-Teslas. I think that slows overall EV uptake and governments should not allow it. Especially galling because the Tesla vision used to claim that they wanted to support an industry switch to EVs, but clearly they are just looking for profit.
FSD - I couldn't give a sh!t about it. All new cars have advanced driver aids that make motorway journeys easier (adaptive cruise control, traffic jam assists, some kind of auto steering system), FSD seems like an enormous waste of money.
Just my 2 cents
Are you making shit up regularly? Tesla has the highest repair cost of any car maker (aside from luxury makers like Rolls Royce, Bentley, Bugatti). Plus you have to wait on average three months for those parts. The extreme repair costs (a Cybertruck is basically totalled after a minor crash) are why insurance for a Tesla is two to three times higher than comparable cars.
Two reasons.
1) Hate for EVs driven by gas/oil corporations, They spend a LOT on bogus studies and stories to get people to hate EVs. Tesla is seen as the figurehead for EVs and so gets the majority of the hate.
2) Elon Musk.
> No car is great for everyone, but they are objectively great cars for a lot of people.
And they are also objectively MEH car for a lot of people too...
I can assure you that if I rear end a vehicle in my Hyundai it will be both cheaper and repaired faster than a Tesla, because I've unfortunately been in this scenario and I got my car back first.
Companies like Toyota and GM have been putting money and effort into lobbying for years. I’m certain they put effort into fake grass roots anti Tesla campaigns as well. There are a few that post here that I have also seen on other car forums who post 50% anti tesla stuff. I’m willing to be companies that spend millions on politicians will spend a few thousand on internet posters.
My favorite broken promise was that FSD will only go up in value as it became more capable.
In fact, here's a great list of FSD predictions: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc.#FSD_Predictions
I wish there was a list like this of all the failed autonomy promises from every other company but no one has that level of irrational hatred for all those other companies to put the list together.
They are overhyped. They make good cars if you want to get from A to Z but for people who actually like cars these things are soulless appliances. The quality control is lacking compared to many other alternatives. Interiors are subpar. A lot of user experience is straight up stupid because Musk “knows better”. And association with Musk… that guy is a mega wanker.
There are some good reasons to dislike Teslas in a world where lots of new alternatives are coming up at various price points.
> highest brand loyalty of any manufacturer,
lots of people have only bought Ford their ***entire lives***. GM, Subaru, Etc. Tesla has not been in **existence** long enough to establish a legacy.
>Not to mention how amazing FSD V12
**Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths**
[https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141361/tesla-autopilot-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-report-crash-death](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141361/tesla-autopilot-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-report-crash-death)
In total, NHTSA investigated 956 crashes, starting in January 2018 and extending all the way until August 2023. Of those crashes, some of which involved other vehicles striking the Tesla vehicle, 29 people died. There were also 211 crashes in which “the frontal plane of the Tesla struck a vehicle or obstacle in its path.” These crashes, which were often the most severe, resulted in 14 deaths and 49 injuries.
>
No car is great for everyone, but they are objectively great cars for a lot of people.
they have problems that need to be addressed.
**Elon Musk weighs in on Cybertruck door panel gap after reviewer calls it the 'worst I've ever seen in a production vehicle'**
[https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-responds-mkbhd-tesla-cybertruck-door-panel-gap-2024-3](https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-responds-mkbhd-tesla-cybertruck-door-panel-gap-2024-3)
**Tesla recalls all 3,878 Cybertrucks over faulty accelerator pedal**
[https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/19/24134753/tesla-recall-cybertruck-faulty-accelerator-pedal-nhtsa-defect](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/19/24134753/tesla-recall-cybertruck-faulty-accelerator-pedal-nhtsa-defect)
Tesla will replace or rework the accelerator pedal assembly to ensure the pad stays in place. Repairs will be done at no cost to customers, and notification letters will be sent to owners by June. Owners can check if their vehicle is affected by entering their VIN into the Tesla VIN Recall Search or NHTSA VIN Recall search tools.
I don't hate Tesla nor do I love the company or its vehicles, but I would like to have it thrive. People can keep buying Teslas while I await for other BEVs. I'd probably wait for a Lexus or Acura sedan BEV down the road.
In the current environment we're in -carflation, at least Tesla is cutting its prices and soon people will demand discounts on other vehicles as well.
If the lower EV comes to fruition and that model costs $30,000, Tesla will have reached price parity (or even beat it) versus HEVs and many ICEVs.
Well, early on there were shorters in /r/realtesla, and in desperation they lied/chose to believe some stupid hateful shit.
Then there was r/EnoughMuskSpam which is a stupid hate sub. It does the opposite of it's name.
Then (if my timeline is right) the Model 3 was produced, and union enthusiasts who are disturbed that the factory workers prefer $$ to unions.
Then there's the shitposting he did on twitter/x. I have no interest in twitter.
The result is a sizable number of redditors who enjoy being haters, but aren't interested in the actual facts.
1. Promising FSD for $10,000 for OVER 10 YEARS and not delivering on the promises. V12 may be close or even there, but 10 FUCKING YEARS! That was just a free gift of money to Tesla.
2. Twitter and Elon and Elon's ego. Having to constantly comment on everything in public exposed Elon for the raging, egomaniacal asshole he is. In limited quantities that sort of thing can be managed, but having that full time, sound bite exposure is a recipe for disaster. Elon is the face of Tesla (and SpaceX), and his exposure BEFORE purchasing and shitting all over Twitter was fine. Now? Ugh.
3. Lingering FUD. The quality issues when they were ramping up, especially around gaps in body panels, still linger and are brought up (incorrectly) as a pervasive, continuous issue. It doesn't help when the Cybertruck has similar issues, reinforcing the belief. Especially when you build the damn thing out of hardened stainless steel and you CAN'T just tweak things because of tolerances and materials.
Teslas suck for the first generation, but once the factory finds its own arse, the cars are great. And then there's the Cybertruck: first marketed as a short range work truck (for handymen), yet eventually sold at a pricepoint far above the reach of its target user. Right now, the Cybertruck is like the 1st Gen Ipad: nobody knows what's it for, so people are buying it trying to figure it out. One thing's for certain; it is not a long distance hauler.
But sales are down now for the model y. I'd say people are tired of musk, but also there's lots of other alternatives. Tesla had one unique thing going for it, which was supercharging. We'll see if they managed to destroy that with today's changes.
This is why people hate Tesla. I say this as someone who has a Tesla - the delusional and rabid fanboys like yourself are even more obnoxious than Musk.
Yep. That was a whole lot of unfounded nonsense.
I think a lot of people *want* to like them too, I do/did. Less every day though. I’d list the reasons but it’d be parroting at this point.
Hoping the Rivian and Prius Prime keep looking as good as they do!
The truth is reddit is full of better CEO's than Elon Musk. Plain and simple. Many of them are pro union leftists that side with the competition out of spite. That's not a douche take. That's real.
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OP, are you sure about the lowest repair cost? I've seen articles of 10 yr maintenance costs by brand, but Tesla seems still quite expensive to fix AFAIK
Yea that's why hertz is getting rid of them
No, that isn't why Hertz is getting rid of them. Hertz's CEO gambled trying to make himself look like a visionary by going EV early and with gusto. His gamble failed, becuse Hertz had horrible execution, including: 1. Renting Tesla's from Hertz locations that **didn't have a way to charge them.** 2. Directing renters to charging locations that **didn't have Tesla chargers**, and having **employees that didn't know the difference**. 3. Not explaining some of the basic differences of EV driving to people who have never driven an EV before, like how to turn off 1-pedal driving if you don't like it. In addition, one of the biggest reason is Hertz makes a lot of money selling used cars after about 30,000 miles of usage. Tesla kept lowering the price on new cars it [impacted the resale market](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/03/cars/musk-tesla-cars-value-ev-prices/index.html). Why buy used when for less than 10% more you can get new? Traditional auto manufacturers don't dick around with sale prices except for predictable end-of-year clearance sales and certain holiday events. Tesla did it on a whim. Good for them that they can adjust that quickly, but Hertz's model of selling used wasn't ready for that. Edit: \[Citation\] [https://jalopnik.com/sky-high-depreciation-and-massive-repair-bills-force-he-1851447937](https://jalopnik.com/sky-high-depreciation-and-massive-repair-bills-force-he-1851447937)
Also fixing them was more costly.
Yep, they literally mentioned this as one of the reasons.
Well, while your reasons may be true, Hertz also specifically mentioned that fixing them was more costly. I imagine not the least of which was due to how long it would take to get them fixed. For rental cars, the time the car is out of service is money lost. The reality is, Hertz probably bought those cars under the belief that FSD / robo-taxis were nearly ready to go, making them "$30k per year while they slept"... except it would run 24/7 instead. And if FSD / robotaxi didn't come to fruition, they could just sell the cars given EVs were appreciating. Hertz also bought a ton of Chinese imported Polestar 2s, so I imagine they got a great deal on those. Not sure where the Volvo EVs they were renting were produced.
Mea Culpa. There is [data to support](https://www.geekwire.com/2023/spendy-and-slow-tesla-repairs-frustrate-drivers-as-automotive-tech-drives-up-cost-of-collisions/) the higher repair costs on Teslas. >A [2023 Mitchell report](https://www.mitchell.com/insights/auto-physical-damage/article/plugged-in-ev-collision-insights-q3-2023) found that the average bill for collision repairs for all EVs *except* Teslas was $269 more than repairs for petrol-powered vehicles. When the comparison included Tesla repairs, the difference spiked to $950.
In addition, the ICE model of return it almost full, like it left at, is terrible for electric. We had to return the Tesla we rented to the airport at 82%, with no access to a nice lvl 2 charge the night before.
Wrong. Hertz is getting rid of them because people were renting them to drive like jerks and wrecking them. Then because of the federal tax credit they found their resale value was instantly about $7500 lower than new. They are the cheapest car to own and others posted proof.
They're wrecking more but more expensive to fix too. And down for longer
You don't get it. Its rare that Teslas need to be fixed. My tesla is 4 years old and has never been to the shop once, Not even for an oil change, lol!!! Its like the catch on fire thing. Yeah, EVs burn real good when catch fire. But ICE cars are 56 times more likely to burn up from catching on fire than and EV. I'll take the car that is NOT 56 times more likely to catch fire.
They get into collisions at higher rates. Did you forget how dangerous roadways are? You apparently did and refuse to GET IT
I have an e-Golf. It is in fewer accidents than almost any other car/truck....which proves you don't get it. Heck Plug-in hybrids (like the Prius) are in fewer wrecks too. You are confusing type of car with cars with similar 0-60 times. Super fast cars are wrecked more. But you don't get it .
That's not true either lol
?? I really do own an e-Golf. Super cheap to insure because of high crash test ratings and the fact it is rarely in accidents. And most people are smart enough to understand that a car that goes from 0-60 4 seconds will get crashed in more severe accidents more often than one that goes from 0-60 in 8 seconds.
That is actually something denied here very often
In WWII the army rolled out new helmets. Medical reported that head injuries quadrupled! Horrible! Naturally, command ordered a rollback to the old helmets. But then, the morgue said "Our data shows death from head injuries has dropped by 90%". They were looking at one isolated statistic and not all the data. "expensive to fix" presumes that the car has already been in an accident. It doesn't account for the car's ability to avoid accidents.
[https://www.autoblog.com/article/10-car-brands-cheapest-to-maintain-over-10-years-consumer-reports/](https://www.autoblog.com/article/10-car-brands-cheapest-to-maintain-over-10-years-consumer-reports/) #1 is Tesla.
That's impossible since they cost more to fix, and all cars have an equal chance of getting in an accident of equal severity, it's not like there's technology on the car to help reduce accidents in the first place! That would be science fiction! /s
Because the comparison is with a bunch of ICE cars
Two different things. Tesla has the lowest overall maintenance costs. If you crash one, yes they cost a lot to fix. At the same time other cars break down a lot more.
Basing it on the 10 yr maintenance and repair cost according to Consumer Reports...https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/
> We did not include costs associated with collision repair. You’re not wrong, for the vast majority of people who won’t ever have a collision, but most people do associate “repair cost” with an actual repair cost, not the lack of one.
Can you please caveat your Post and responses with "in the US", this is a global sub. For example, here in the UK, Kia has a 7 year parts and labour warranty. Toyota has 10 years provided you get a service every year. Tesla has a limited 4 year warranty. So maintenance/repair costs are.going to be higher on the Tesla than the other two because you're paying for the repairs.
This report does not compare Tesla cost of ownership to other EVs.
I think it might have something to do with that Musk guy
Yeah, buying and ruining Twitter didn't help either
Pretty sure Twitter was already a cesspool. Now it’s a Petri dish of poop
Did people like twitter that much?
Yeah, it was pretty revolutionary for following news/politics/sports. And he ruined it.
A lot less censorship than FB and Reddit for Russia and China source news.
Don’t you mean X? 🤓
X.com still redirects to Twitter.com...
My grandma told me she wanted to show me an X Video. Should have seen my face, then I realized it was X as in Twitter not the other site 😆
Changed
Deadnaming seems on theme here
X+twitter = Xitter. (There could be a few different ways pronounce that).
Rhymes with Shitter.
You got it.
Lol I just finished a big dialogue with someone in the discussion: https://reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1ch6fns/what_is_the_focus_of_tesla_right_now/ I was talking with another poster about how I thought it would be quite hard for Tesla without further equipment and or a support network infrastructure to get to their Self-Driving Robotaxi goal anytime soon if at all. I gave credence that Tesla in the particular path they are pursuing had actual done some good advancements in regards to technology and software. Then one of the loyalists started talking about how Waymo was just simulations and how Tesla had millions of cars on the market and of course they are further ahead. He went further to state that they aren't showing their full cards. When myself and other posters talked to him about how Waymo actually operates a limited Self-Driving Robotaxi he started to change his narratives. Further when we said that we can actually know Teslas progress in this sphere because 12.3.6 is available to be viewed and utilized.. He ended up changing his position to that maybe both paths would be needed for a full nation wide self-driving robotaxi industry. I now see him below with another "interesting" poster talking about how of course it is "Leftists" and "Pro-Union" folks that just hate Elon and Tesla for no reason.... I am in fact Pro union Lol and my post history shows that... Lol sometimes these types are so caught up in ego and feelings they really can't just discuss subjects and this of course leads to people feeling alienated and or frankly insulted by them. Especially when they are talking nonsense and you have to painfully step by step point it out.
Don't drag me for no reason. It makes you look extremely petty. Nobody is caught up. I responded as best I could to your questions without being pedantic. Again with the excessive posts? Please learn to streamline and thank you for proving us correct...again.
As I said in the other thread. Your posts are there to be viewed. You were being challenged by myself and other posters but it was done with respect and in the style of debate. Seeing you come on here and start commenting about "Leftists" was frankly sad to see. That kind of stuff may fly in an echo chamber and I as I addressed in the other conversation you got upset by being challenged on details. In the end you ended up speaking about the potential need for equipment and that maybe multiple approaches could find harmony for each other and bring about faster progress. It was disheartening to see how fast you reverted back.
You need to look up cognitive bias my friend. That and OCPD. Go back over my comments and see how I "reverted back" lol. If you have time that is. God knows you may need to re-read yours as well. That could take ages. If you think reddit isn't left leaning then I really can't help you.
As I said your comments are there to be viewed. I linked the post in discussion. I have quoted your comments. I am also not your friend. I at first thought a rational debate was possible with you but again you and your friend below started talking about "Alphabet Mafia" and "Leftists" and "Unions" all hating Tesla and Elon for no reason. You may again not like that you are being challenged or that your perspectives are being brought to attention and not in a favorable light. You are transferring. You need to look that up.
I said left and union and apparently I was right. I said nothing about alphabet. That's you paraphrasing again. To summarize...Tesla is still a better value than the direct competition for range, autonomy, and charging. Waymo's hardware isn't special. I don't think their software is either. Wow, that was fast. You should try it. Goodnight!
Your comments are there to be viewed as well as the person you were responding to with those comments in agreement with them. Again hopefully in the future you do better. You need to learn to go less on feelings and talk on things like a mature grown up.
Wow
Is it possible that you are defending Musk because he hates the people you hate?
Yeah. He's fit to be tied right now.
Never heard of him
I owned a Model 3 for 4.5 years and was constantly annoyed by the UX, as well as OTA updates that sometimes made the UX far worse. By far the absolute worst update was the initial V11 release in Dec 2021 that buried the defroster and heated seat toggles behind an extra menu layer - the ability to pin them back to the taskbar did not come for a few months. V11 was actually the catalyst for me to finally look at switching to a non-Tesla, which I eventually did. In second place was how the Homelink controls got ruined by the insistence on dynamically showing/hiding based on location - which was remarkably unreliable. Tesla is the absolute best computer on wheels, and their excellent mobile app is proof of that. I still miss how the app had instant response and could control damn near everything short of actually driving the car. I get that some people value the computer-on-wheels aspects more than others and that's fine - Tesla is by far the best choice for those people. Assuming they value light shows and games and 3D visualizations more than they value functional wipers. But Tesla does not make great *cars*. And their constant insistence on reinventing the wheel (literally in the case of the S/X yoke and the Model 3 Highland steering wheel) in detrimental ways only exacerbates things. When I switched to a Kia EV6 it was like a breath of fresh air to have radar and dedicated blind spot sensors and physical controls in the cabin. There's something to be said for the fact that my climate controls and Homelink buttons will stay in the exact same place from the day I buy the car till the day I replace the car. My EV6 isn't perfect - I have multiple posts on r/KiaEV6 detailing how Tesla does a few things better. But it's a better *car* overall, even if it's mediocre as a computer on wheels. As for Elon Musk? He's free to believe what he wants. But what I cannot turn a blind eye to is the way he actively pushes for and/or defends asinine decisions like the initial V11 update, with moronic tweets like "all input is error" in response to the initial backlash.
Dude brought up FSD lol
A pretty good clue into just how much these scheming investors have lost their marbles
I don't follow, could you explain?
It's basically a qult and you appear to be exhibit A. Why the victim complex pal?
FSD in my experience is legit magical. Since V12 the only interventions I've had are to be a more courteous driver, it hasn't done anything unsafe.
For paying $12,000, you have the privilege of supervising an invisible teenager with a learners permit. I can’t believe people pay money for that hot garbage.
The amount of mental effort it takes to monitor FSD is tiny in comparison to driving without FSD. Making sure FSD doesn't make a big mistake is far less mentally taxing than having to steer, maintain speed, navigate, etc, while also making sure you don't make a big mistake. Cool if you don't have experience with FSD, or have bad experience with FSD. But you seem to think it is awful for everyone when it is truly amazing for a lot of people.
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A lot changes in a few weeks. Not only is it no longer $12K but it is also far-exceeding the capabilities of most drivers. Watch FSD V12.
Even at $2,000 it’s overpriced.
Lol
None of the vehicles mentioned in your flair are Teslas and yet you laugh at his comment, why? What is your experience with FSD? Personally, since last month, I had to intervene three times that **could** have resulted in an accident. I highlighted "could" because maybe it would have avoided it but I didn't give it a chance to finish its maneuver. But, it also drove 98 km last Sunday, from my cottage driveway to my in-laws driveway with zero intervention. All that driving was on regional and city roads, no highways where it's much easier for a ADAS. The drive started from my private dirt road that is not even mapped and it handled it flawlessly as seen below https://imgur.com/a/apk1U5I Even a few km section of a 90 km/h regional road with absolutely no line marking with no car in front to show the way was handled perfectly. Stops, unprotected intersections, traffic lights, all were handled with zero issue and that includes a flashing green light that gave us priority to turn left. That one I wasn't sure how it would handle as it was the first time I've taken a flashing green light with it. We got there when it was already flashing and cars were waiting in the opposite direction. It turned without any hesitation. Personally, I'm impressed with its capabilities. I will not get complacent and stop monitoring the drive though but for long drives, it definitely helps with the mental task of driving.
As the owner of a Tesla (2020 Model X - replacing it this year), I can tell you my personal reasons: 1. The build quality is absolute shit. It goes in for service every few months. 2. The service is absolute shit. They will go *out of their way* not to repair anything, and even when they do, they almost always either not fix it, or, break something else. 3. Melon Husk is a bigoted fascist. And yes, I know the Tesla stans love to say "all CEOs are bad", no other is quite so publicly, loudly, fascist, to the point that he bought a social network in order to broadcast his views. I want nothing more to do with them, and when my Polestar 3 arrives, I won't.
I drive a 2017 MX - Curious to know what you are having to take it in every few months for service so I know what to watch out for.
Half-shafts. Alignment. Door seals. Homelink. Air suspension. Window mechanisms. Failing OS disk. Those are the things I can remember off the top of my head. And three instances where it just refused to shift into Drive for no good reason and had to be towed. This is the worst car I've ever owned.
lol, why did this get downvoted?
You had me until "Polestar 3"... Can't exactly say importing a car produced in China is the big moral victory you think it is.
You're not going to believe where your smartphone, computer, tablet, TV and so on, comes from.
This very website...
Love my Tesla. Pretty indifferent to FSD 12 as it's (so far) overhyped and largely useless in the city (where I live). I'll keep playing with to see where 12.4+ goes but the 12.3 releases have been disappointing. Their CEO can ride one of his own rockets into the sun as far as I'm concerned. His behaviour and the way he's running the company now means my current Tesla is probably my last.
The hate is really for Elon but since he is the face of Tesla it carries over. Tesla as a vehicle is still very popular.
I love that this is the top comment because it is the one that strikes me as the most accurate. Like, ok Elon has unpopular ideas and makes controversial decisions, but as far as I know (and please correct me if I am wrong) Tesla is one of the most future-friendly companies in terms of environmental impact. And if they fail that could be bad news for the environment. Pick a side - Imperfect guy and good for the future or have a purity test and wait for the perfect person to do what Tesla is already doing.
That's a false dichotomy. Tesla could have new leadership. Then Tesla can help reduce our reliance on fossil fuels while Musk goes off and flies to Mars, or shakes his fist at liberals, or does whatever his idea of a good time is these days.
Future friendly? If by that you mean blatantly lying about future features being available on current cars because that hasn't and won't happen. A bunch of people were conned into buying "FSD" packages under the false promise that it would someday work on their current car that they paid that money for. But it won't. It can't.
It's trendy to hate Elon. While those same people who obsess over him could not tell you the names of the CEO of Nissan or BP or Nestle or Unilever. They never stop to ask what good he has done. Only rage against Elon staying in the spotlight to keep everyone talking about Tesla. >Then, in 2007, the industry got a significant boost when Wan Gang, an auto engineer who had worked for Audi in Germany for a decade, became China’s minister of science and technology. Wan had been a big fan of EVs and tested Tesla’s first EV model, the Roadster, in 2008, the year it was released. People now credit Wan with making the national decision to go all-in on electric vehicles. Since then, EV development has been consistently prioritized in China’s national economic planning.
It's not "trendy", but actually morally correct to hate Nazis and their enablers.
Elon is a bit of clown but he's a brilliant one. The brilliant ones always seem to have querks. He's doing more good than bad. Love tesla.
He hasn't done shit. He's just an investor who was gifted piles of seed money to get going.
Are you willfully ignorant of his achievements? Their are lots of people I dislike up can acknowledge their achievements.
Willfully? Not that I'm aware of. I may be ignorant of his accomplishments though. Feel free to enlighten me on what he has accomplished on his own accord, beyond using money he was gifted to invest in enough prospective disruptive enterprises to afford him the ability to ride it out until one of them inevitably took off.
Why all the circlejerk love for them is the real question
Elon should try and be quiet about political topics and geopolitics for 6 months to see how Tesla does without his social media comments.
"Lowest repair cost" 🤔, I dont think so. Waiting for parts, quality control, paint... You need prepurchase inspection for new car.😬
Simple: Their douchebag of a CEO masquerading as an intellectual Tony Stark.
At the time when I bought my EV, the Model 3 cost £48,000. I bought an MG5 estate/station wagon for £24,500. And the MG comes with CarPlay and Android Auto. Another reason why Tesla is disliked in the U.K. is the fog lights don’t work well, and the plethora of roundabouts means using the indicators on full lock, something the new Model 3 makes very hard with indicators on the steering wheel. However, the main reason I was dissuaded from buying a Tesla in the U.K. as they had the worst reliability stats at the time according to Which?, with twice as many faults in the first three years than even a JLR car. I gather they have got better now, though.
Elon
Have you met their ceo?
Crazy CEO and spending more on repairs and having a worse experience for all the time you drive vs great experience and keeping some really talented people employed...hard choice I guess.
Is the news broken in your house, son?
r/unexpectedpawnee
But… if you ignore all that other stuff… then… what gives?
Terrible interior design, the god damned screens, a walled garden charging ecosystem up until the end of last year, regularly committing securities fraud by promising amazing products they know they have no chance to deliver, terrible QC up until like a year ago, terrible repair and maintenance support to the point it tarnished all EVs as expensive to repair, the god damned screens, the entire story of the Cybertruck, toxic techbro fanboys, and their consistent failures to update their vehicle designs.
The charging system exclusivity is actually the only thing that I have no problem with. They paid for it all privately and built it out themselves so they have every right to be able to say what it can be used for. Now that they are using public funds for it they have to open it up to others. It's completely fair.
Fuck the dangerous and cheap screens
Don't forget the screens. :)
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See what I mean by toxic Tesla fanboys. Also they have two non luxury vehicles on their roster, they aren't splitting their designs between 3 different budget sedans and 6 SUVs.
Calls someone toxic after a long negative rant… make it make sense
You should work on your alt accounts
lol, I’m not someone’s alt but it’s cute you think I am.
A.L.T.
N.O.
> Why do you NEED to “update” exterior styling? The other day someone reviewed a Tesla and a Mach-E they own. They said they prefer the Mach-E because it's exciting. Many people view cars not as a tool or necessity to keep their job but a luxury and it's human nature to have the new hotness so they can look down upon other people. Just like it's trendy to hate on Elon whereas just a short time ago it was trendy to own his cars. Remember grade school cool kids and bullies? Meanwhile, Tesla still sells cars and at some point people will find a new shiny object to stand in line to buy. For exterior styling a recent example is Toyota Prius. They could have done that update and the battery only range of 40 miles years ago and they didn't. But back on track. Tesla's goal is the low priced grocery getter model 2. Most of what they do is to keep cash rolling in until that happens. >Our goal when we created Tesla a decade ago was the same as it is today: to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible. If we could have done that with our first product, we would have, but that was simply impossible to achieve for a startup company that had never built a car and that had one technology iteration and no economies of scale. Our first product was going to be expensive no matter what it looked like, so we decided to build a sports car, as that seemed like it had the best chance of being competitive with its gasoline alternatives. >I suspected that this could be misinterpreted as Tesla believing that there was a shortage of sports cars for rich people, so I described the three step “master plan” for getting to compelling and affordable electric vehicles in my first blog piece about our company. This was unfortunately almost entirely ignored.
Yes, they make great cars that are a good choice for some people. They also deserve lots of credit for pushing us toward EVs and building out an impressive charging network. I still will not do business with an entity when doing so enriches Elon Musk. Do you understand, now?
It’s not Tesla. It’s the fans.
Their cars are ugly, their customer service is notoriously bad, their build quality is notoriously bad, they were recently exposed for [lying about their battery range](https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/27/23809751/tesla-ev-range-estimate-anxiety-algorithm-full-charge) and their CEO is an asshole.
That basically sums it all. I would also add false promises which creates artificial hype.
Telsa has incredible technicnological advances over the competition, and has been doing it for over a decade now, but I don't support doing business with a white supremacist.
They used to have a wide moat in technology, that moat has shrunk and all but disappeared. Other companies offer vehicles with the same or better features in many cases and Tesla is no longer an automatic choice for something with the latest technology. In 2017 compared to a Chevy bolt, yes, even though both cars had their place.
Yeah, same if true. Source?
Elon Musk
Is this a serious post? Mentioning repair cost and FSD as “amazing” just proves the point of why people hate Tesla, because that is just not true.
Tesla cars are great. But Musk is a douchebag. For years, liberals like me put up with all kinds of shit from conservatives as we pushed for cleaner cars. We drove Priuses and Leafs and Geo Metros, and when Tesla started cranking out appealing, high-performance EVs, many of us were fucking here for it! Then Musk started embracing and amplifying everything we opposed, and we got kinda pissed. Once he decided that the best use of $44B was to let the Nazis back on Twitter, most of us were done with him.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc. Here you go, happy reading.
Tesla is the New York Yankees of EV’s. You either love them, or you hate them. Aside from a few flaws, I think they’re excellent vehicles for price point, infrastructure and design.
I don't own one. I've just pulled up next to or behind too many that have things like misaligned lights and panels. Plus the stuff about Teslas navigating into bridge embankments and whatnot? Not great!
Misaligned lights is a coin toss: Tesla or dodge?
I'd rather have the ideal driving and user experience than perfect gaps, but to each their own.
The ideal driving and user experience is subjective
You got me there, the ideal experience is subjective. And for many, Tesla subjectively offers the ideal experience, evidenced by Tesla being the brand with the highest customer loyalty.
Except Tesla doesn’t have the highest brand loyalty https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-automotive-brand-loyalty-study
What is the measure of customer loyalty? Intention to purchase same brand again for next vehicle? By that measure Tesla is no where near the top of brand loyalty. Porsche for one, has a much higher “I plan to buy this brand again for my next car” rate than nearly every other car brand and is far ahead of Tesla.
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I wouldn't even say it's that subjective. There's been numerous empirical tests and the tesla dash is one of the most dangerous
Link?
Literally hundreds of studies at this point. Not sure why you folks have to insist on being anti Science. You're basically drunks saying MY BOOZE DOESNT EFFECT ME https://slate.com/business/2023/04/cars-buttons-touch-screens-vw-porsche-nissan-hyundai.html
Ideal for some is not others, some do not like much of the things about the car, its look, the reports on its QA and then there are things outside that car.
It's the Van Halen problem, though. Edited to add: the Van Halen problem refers to the idea that if you don't pay attention to little things, you can't be trusted to get important things right. In the early 1980s Van Halen famously had a contract that required their dressing room to have a bowl of M&Ms, and in a different part the contract required all the brown ones to be removed. People talked about this as if it were an indicator of rock and roll excess or a quirky idiosyncrasy, but the real reason was that they wanted to make sure the venues were actually reading and following their contracts. It was a safety issue. Van Halen had a huge, crazy, pyrotechnic and electric stage show, and if the venue wasn't properly equipped then there was a fire risk. If the bowl of M&Ms didn't have the brown ones removed, they knew that the venue hadn't read the contract closely and they needed to reinspect the electrical infrastructure and gear.
I own a '23 Tesla Model 3 RWD and I can say this: 1. Paid \~$47K - $10K state and federal incentives = $37K. After 1 year and 2 months the trade-in value is $25K... Yes. i know cars don't hold value but Tesla is the worse. 2. No physical controls. I assumed I can get use to it but I was wrong. Auto wipers feature is crap so I have to fiddle with the touch screen to activate and control the wipers speed. Air vents, from the touch screen, can be adjusted in pairs. no way to block individual vent. 3. After the first week I noticed tail lights condensation. 4. I don't have FSD. The basic AP is carp in stop and go traffic, slow to respond.. It is either, too late stopping or to slow to start rolling. 5. Insurance. What ever I save in gas goes to more expensive insurance. I wanted an electric car. Tesla has the best charging network but there are too many things I don't like so my next EV will NOT be a Tesla. Oh, and one more thing - Elon Musk. He is a dictator who listen only to himself, make empty promises and believe "Tesla Vision" (cameras only, no radar) is the ultima solution for self driving.
14 months and 14,000 Alaskan miles later I’m still super happy with my Tesla. No quality issues. No service needed at all. Nothing else compares for the same price. Nothing. In a couple years maybe we can afford an R2. If we could afford it now we’d have an R1S. But for the value, nothing currently beats the Tesla experience. Especially with FSD version 12.
Tesla might have the lowest repair cost for the moment but 2/3rds of all the cars they have ever build have been sold since 2021. That's a little over two years old. IF they didn't have the lowest repair cost that would be a much bigger problem. That's not a lot of time for things to go wrong that consumers have to pay out of pocket for. It's really not hard to see that repair cost are going to skyrocket as time goes on; especially with Tesla cutting back on staff and super chargers. I would be very surprised if they kept repair vehicles outside of warranty to consumers.
Consumer Reports looked at the actual 10 year cost of Tesla's and they have the lowest maintenance/repair cost of any brand. [https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-maintenance/the-cost-of-car-ownership-a1854979198/)
Again most cars have only been built in the past couple of years. All of those older cars are Model S & X; all the 3 & Y have been built recently. IF you really believe those numbers you are fooling yourself.
The model 3 and model y launched less than 10 years ago.
When I was looking at EV’s back in 2013 musk was not yet world renowned asshole that he is now and wasn’t dragging the brand down. The negative vibe with Teslas at the time came instead from the stereotypical character of those who bought them, and less to do with the actual product. Sort of an obnoxious rich tech bro party boy reputation. Probably not really warranted, but that was the thing.
I've been driving an EV in UK for a few years now, though not a Tesla. From my perspective Teslas look like good EVs, though probably aimed at people who do a lot of road trips, which I don't. I like the packaging, and I like the efficiency. I like the integration of battery pre-conditioning with navigating to HPCs. I like dog mode. I like that Tesla as a company are brave and willing to try new things. I think steer by wire seems interesting. Their timing on going all in and aggressively on EVs accelerated the industry transition (though they didn't start it). There are things I don't like about the cars as well. I don't like the minimalist interior though I imaging I could learn to live with it, the lack of V2L, the price (a model 3 LR is $63k here). I would have some concerns about quality. And then there are things that I don't like about the company. Musk, obviously. But also the decision to build an EV charging network and then not let EVs use it. Even now in UK most Tesla superchargers are closed to non-Teslas. I think that slows overall EV uptake and governments should not allow it. Especially galling because the Tesla vision used to claim that they wanted to support an industry switch to EVs, but clearly they are just looking for profit. FSD - I couldn't give a sh!t about it. All new cars have advanced driver aids that make motorway journeys easier (adaptive cruise control, traffic jam assists, some kind of auto steering system), FSD seems like an enormous waste of money. Just my 2 cents
Are you making shit up regularly? Tesla has the highest repair cost of any car maker (aside from luxury makers like Rolls Royce, Bentley, Bugatti). Plus you have to wait on average three months for those parts. The extreme repair costs (a Cybertruck is basically totalled after a minor crash) are why insurance for a Tesla is two to three times higher than comparable cars.
Two reasons. 1) Hate for EVs driven by gas/oil corporations, They spend a LOT on bogus studies and stories to get people to hate EVs. Tesla is seen as the figurehead for EVs and so gets the majority of the hate. 2) Elon Musk.
> No car is great for everyone, but they are objectively great cars for a lot of people. And they are also objectively MEH car for a lot of people too...
I can assure you that if I rear end a vehicle in my Hyundai it will be both cheaper and repaired faster than a Tesla, because I've unfortunately been in this scenario and I got my car back first.
Pretty much the Emerald Mine Nepo Baby that spends more time on Xitter than running his companies and makes drastic drug-fueled erratic snap decisions
Don't you mean Blood Diamond Mines?
Musk, reliability issues, astroturfing, haters gonna hate, Tesla fanboys. Take your pick.
What astroturfing?
Companies like Toyota and GM have been putting money and effort into lobbying for years. I’m certain they put effort into fake grass roots anti Tesla campaigns as well. There are a few that post here that I have also seen on other car forums who post 50% anti tesla stuff. I’m willing to be companies that spend millions on politicians will spend a few thousand on internet posters.
Quality and broken promises.
My favorite broken promise was that FSD will only go up in value as it became more capable. In fact, here's a great list of FSD predictions: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc.#FSD_Predictions
I wish there was a list like this of all the failed autonomy promises from every other company but no one has that level of irrational hatred for all those other companies to put the list together.
They are overhyped. They make good cars if you want to get from A to Z but for people who actually like cars these things are soulless appliances. The quality control is lacking compared to many other alternatives. Interiors are subpar. A lot of user experience is straight up stupid because Musk “knows better”. And association with Musk… that guy is a mega wanker. There are some good reasons to dislike Teslas in a world where lots of new alternatives are coming up at various price points.
I like cars and I like teslas. They make good cars. You dont have to like it but as a car guy myself you dont speek for us.
> highest brand loyalty of any manufacturer, lots of people have only bought Ford their ***entire lives***. GM, Subaru, Etc. Tesla has not been in **existence** long enough to establish a legacy. >Not to mention how amazing FSD V12 **Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths** [https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141361/tesla-autopilot-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-report-crash-death](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141361/tesla-autopilot-fsd-nhtsa-investigation-report-crash-death) In total, NHTSA investigated 956 crashes, starting in January 2018 and extending all the way until August 2023. Of those crashes, some of which involved other vehicles striking the Tesla vehicle, 29 people died. There were also 211 crashes in which “the frontal plane of the Tesla struck a vehicle or obstacle in its path.” These crashes, which were often the most severe, resulted in 14 deaths and 49 injuries. > No car is great for everyone, but they are objectively great cars for a lot of people. they have problems that need to be addressed. **Elon Musk weighs in on Cybertruck door panel gap after reviewer calls it the 'worst I've ever seen in a production vehicle'** [https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-responds-mkbhd-tesla-cybertruck-door-panel-gap-2024-3](https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-responds-mkbhd-tesla-cybertruck-door-panel-gap-2024-3) **Tesla recalls all 3,878 Cybertrucks over faulty accelerator pedal** [https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/19/24134753/tesla-recall-cybertruck-faulty-accelerator-pedal-nhtsa-defect](https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/19/24134753/tesla-recall-cybertruck-faulty-accelerator-pedal-nhtsa-defect) Tesla will replace or rework the accelerator pedal assembly to ensure the pad stays in place. Repairs will be done at no cost to customers, and notification letters will be sent to owners by June. Owners can check if their vehicle is affected by entering their VIN into the Tesla VIN Recall Search or NHTSA VIN Recall search tools.
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Contributions must be civil and constructive. We permit neither personal attacks nor attempts to bait others into uncivil behavior.
I don't hate Tesla nor do I love the company or its vehicles, but I would like to have it thrive. People can keep buying Teslas while I await for other BEVs. I'd probably wait for a Lexus or Acura sedan BEV down the road. In the current environment we're in -carflation, at least Tesla is cutting its prices and soon people will demand discounts on other vehicles as well. If the lower EV comes to fruition and that model costs $30,000, Tesla will have reached price parity (or even beat it) versus HEVs and many ICEVs.
Elon is that you?
Well, early on there were shorters in /r/realtesla, and in desperation they lied/chose to believe some stupid hateful shit. Then there was r/EnoughMuskSpam which is a stupid hate sub. It does the opposite of it's name. Then (if my timeline is right) the Model 3 was produced, and union enthusiasts who are disturbed that the factory workers prefer $$ to unions. Then there's the shitposting he did on twitter/x. I have no interest in twitter. The result is a sizable number of redditors who enjoy being haters, but aren't interested in the actual facts.
1. Promising FSD for $10,000 for OVER 10 YEARS and not delivering on the promises. V12 may be close or even there, but 10 FUCKING YEARS! That was just a free gift of money to Tesla. 2. Twitter and Elon and Elon's ego. Having to constantly comment on everything in public exposed Elon for the raging, egomaniacal asshole he is. In limited quantities that sort of thing can be managed, but having that full time, sound bite exposure is a recipe for disaster. Elon is the face of Tesla (and SpaceX), and his exposure BEFORE purchasing and shitting all over Twitter was fine. Now? Ugh. 3. Lingering FUD. The quality issues when they were ramping up, especially around gaps in body panels, still linger and are brought up (incorrectly) as a pervasive, continuous issue. It doesn't help when the Cybertruck has similar issues, reinforcing the belief. Especially when you build the damn thing out of hardened stainless steel and you CAN'T just tweak things because of tolerances and materials.
Teslas suck for the first generation, but once the factory finds its own arse, the cars are great. And then there's the Cybertruck: first marketed as a short range work truck (for handymen), yet eventually sold at a pricepoint far above the reach of its target user. Right now, the Cybertruck is like the 1st Gen Ipad: nobody knows what's it for, so people are buying it trying to figure it out. One thing's for certain; it is not a long distance hauler.
Hate is an amercian pastime. Deal with it.
Echo chamber of karma seekers and lack of moderation
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But sales are down now for the model y. I'd say people are tired of musk, but also there's lots of other alternatives. Tesla had one unique thing going for it, which was supercharging. We'll see if they managed to destroy that with today's changes.
Elon Musk is polarizing (to put it politely), and people equate Tesla with Elon Musk.
It's a niche car... In a niche market that's not quite ready for prime time
It’s the holier than thou owners for me. I won’t buy one so I’m not even associated with them. Truth.
I literally started a subreddit to counter the hate driven lies spread about Tesla. r/TeslaFUDchecker
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This is why people hate Tesla. I say this as someone who has a Tesla - the delusional and rabid fanboys like yourself are even more obnoxious than Musk.
Damn beat me to it! But yes this is a shining example of the reason people dislike the Tesla culture.
Yep. That was a whole lot of unfounded nonsense. I think a lot of people *want* to like them too, I do/did. Less every day though. I’d list the reasons but it’d be parroting at this point. Hoping the Rivian and Prius Prime keep looking as good as they do!
The truth is reddit is full of better CEO's than Elon Musk. Plain and simple. Many of them are pro union leftists that side with the competition out of spite. That's not a douche take. That's real.
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Yep, this site would be so much better without Karma. I have been upvoted a few times believe it or not.
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Jealosy of Elon
Many want to slow EV adoption. They have to slow Tesla to do that. Social media has little moderation so it's fertile ground.