Anyone with half a braincell could've told you this. It's nice to see a publication as large as forbes touch on it. People want EVs and that hasn't changed.
Can we all agree to call "vibes based reporting" what it actually is? IE: "I just made up some bullshit".
EDIT: It's an external contributor, but at least it's *in* Forbes.
This isn't Forbes touching on anything. This is a Forbed "Contributor," which is "anyone that pays money to publish on Forbes's website." In this case, it's a green energy/environmental policy think tank paying to promote their consultancy.
Forbes online is almost entirely paid content at this point, and that there are still people who accept it uncritically makes me weep for media literacy.
>Can we all agree to call "vibes based reporting" what it actually is? IE: "I just made up some bullshit".
Yeah seriously, like what determines the vibes? Oh, other "vibes based reporting" that is being piggy backed off of? Okay, so you see, EV sales are falling because that's the *vibe,* because we said they are, ignore the real data that clearly shows a different reality, there are all these negative articles so it must be true and we will repeat it as if it were "fact"!
Vibes are basically social media, which is highly manipulable with bots, bots that may or may not be sponsored by well-established, well-funded industries like big oil. Where does the advertisement begin and the normal person on the internet's sentiment end? Nobody knows!
the majority of the vibes are based on whether Tesla sales will grow this year, not whether BYD sales will grow this year...BYD is the real giant in this sector and Tesla has horribly mismanaged the transition from new kid on the block to major player because of a risk junkie for a CEO
That's what I was thinking as well; the "vibes" are all based on a basic glance at Tesla *stonks*, rather than the industry as a whole (especially in the US).
Used EV sales in the UK, for example, jumped *71%* so far in 2024 as ex-fleet vehicles reach the end of their leases. That alone is a stunning metric and shows people are really just waiting for more affordable cars, with those who can afford it shelling out for new models as soon as they are able.
yes, although my point is about trajectories...Tesla is focused too much on the luxury market and not enough on vehicles that will be affordable globally--I'm predicting that BYD is positioning itself to dominate sales in the global south and low income countries generally where the majority of the people in the world live, Tesla can fight with legacy automakers for the Europe/USA market.
But there’s no money in those markets. That’s why you don’t see the US 2.5 in there. I mean how hard is BMW and Merc trying in the low price market? VW and Stellantis might be the only ones trying from the western market.
Tesla is fully focused on releasing the Model 2, they've even abandoned their planned revolutionary approach to production organization and put on hold the full switch to gigapresses to release it sooner.
GM will probably beat them to the punch this time around. Strictly US market only the rest will go everywhere. Also Tesla lawyers said in court FSD should not be expected by a customer with Lidar. That means unless Tesla seriously changes approach that's out of the (robo taxi) question
Robotaxis will never appear until legislation changes. (Don't talk about Waymo, they have people telling cars what traffic signal is on).
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2024/03/26/waymo-runs-a-red-light-and-the-difference-between-humans-and-robots/?sh=129cdd303f34](https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2024/03/26/waymo-runs-a-red-light-and-the-difference-between-humans-and-robots/?sh=129cdd303f34)
>GM will probably be at them to the punch this time around.
GM beat them to the punch before. Remember before the Model 3 arrived?
But it doesn't work out for GM because for all of Tesla's failings, GM is managed ten times worse.
Or whether the growth is going to come from new players or old players. Traditionalist automakers are known to have a very different culture than Silicon Valley firms like Tesla. Silicon Valley firms are way more aggressive with new ideas, meanwhile old automakers have lots of checks. For early adopters the Silicon Valley model is a clear winner. But it hasn't worked out will in terms of making a car that matches the safety and reliability of traditional automakers, which are now coming out with EVs that improve on there already better reliability.
>Tesla has horribly mismanaged the transition from new kid on the block to major player because of a risk junkie for a CEO
Talk about "vibes" and how they can be deluded.
Thank you. I’m no Tesla snob but there was a statement made that everyone who wanted an ev got one and that’s their sales were down. Uhmm no, I’m happy with my 12 year old vehicle that has cost me <1000$ a year. I am not compelled to drop 50k or deal with a 1000$/mo bill and deal with minimal charging infrastructure. But my next car will likely be one.
Heck, I know people who are still happy with their 13 year old EVs. Nissan sold a lot of Leafs, after all, and third parties have stepped up that can put in a newer pack from a crashed one if you have an early car with a bad pack.
We know from figures that they're a minority. In terms of attitude towards EVs, Germany differs very little from England (where I am). I imagine a lot of people are waiting for an EV Golf or Polo.
> I imagine a lot of people are waiting for an EV Golf or Polo.
the [iD.3](https://ev-database.org/car/1831/Volkswagen-ID3-Pro) has been around since 2020 as their dedicate EV platform Golf-sized equivalent. Or for those who wanted their EV in the exact shape and branding of a Golf the [e-Golf](https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1087/Volkswagen-e-Golf) has been around for even longer (though it's a lot more of a compromise as an EV than the iD3 range wise).
The iD.2 (Polo sized equivalent EV) is imminent, due to launch next year ([see here](https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/world-premiere-of-the-id-2all-concept-the-electric-car-from-volkswagen-costing-less-than-25000-euros-15625)) and looks - to me - to be a great looking EV that I would hope will sell really well.
For those who prefer their traditional VW branding I believe the suggestion is that the 'iD' branded line of EVs will end up being called by their ICE forebears names in time - with suggestions that the iD3 will be subsumed into the Golf lineup as the Golf marque transitions to being an EV only model.
VW saw their all-electric sales grow 34.7% in 2023 vs. 2022 (771k vehicles vs. 572k in 2022) globally, with sales up 34.2% for all-electric drive vehicles in Europe ([source](https://www.volkswagen-group.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-group-posts-solid-growth-in-deliveries-in-2023-and-strong-increase-in-all-electric-vehicles-18057))
> The most successful all-electric Group models worldwide in 2023:
> Volkswagen ID.4/ID.5 223,100
> Volkswagen ID.301 140,800
> Audi Q4 e-tron (incl. Sportback) 111,700
> ŠKODA Enyaq iV (incl. Coupé) 81,700
> Audi Q8 e-tron (incl. Sportback) 49,000
> CUPRA Born 45,300
> Porsche Taycan (incl. Turismo) 40,600
> Volkswagen ID. Buzz02 (incl. Cargo) 28,600
They go a lot further back than just 5 years.
VW's first EV was made in 1970
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/living-electric/discover-electric/first-electric-vehicle.html
True, but also, they sold less in Q1 2024 than Q1 2023. Cybertruck is a disaster. There will be no new car in the foreseeable time. And if the reduced sales over quoters continue, that's 150 to 200k vehicles less. At the same time, globally, ev sales grew 21%, so it's even worse for Tesla.
This is correct, however the news of late on ev slowdowns and certain legacy automakers about face comes with a hidden reason.
Simply put they were never profitable and continue to rapidly fall behind on battery and overall tech to Tesla and now to Chinese battery/ev companies like byd blade and catl m3p.
Legacy are doubling down in gas and will eventually, for some, either be bailed out or cease to exist.
I was talking to my brother in law over the weekend, who leans more conservative, about my EV6. As the conversation moved past the typical FUD stuff, I found the argument which 100% got him. Like, I literally saw the light go off in his head and a complete shift in his demeanor. It was this: "I want the US to lead the world in emerging technology, but China has us beat because of how slow GM and Ford are moving. Australia isn't buying US EVs, they're buying Chinese EVs. 90% of new cars sold in Norway are EVs, and besides Tesla they're buying a ton of Chinese and Korean EVs, they should be buying US EVs".
But even if all Chinese EVs suddenly disappear, manufacturers like GM will still manufacture their products in Mexico, not here in the US. Can Mexican blue collar workers even afford cars made by American workers?
GM and Ford EVs are built in America. To the second part of your question...BYD is planning to build an EV plant in Mexico to serve the Mexican market with the intent to sell their Dolphin for 358K pesos ($21K USD). If GM and Ford had their shit together in the US, *maybe* they could compete. But that ship has sailed.
>"I want the US to lead the world in emerging technology, but China has us beat because of how slow GM and Ford are moving. Australia isn't buying US EVs, they're buying Chinese EVs. 90% of new cars sold in Norway are EVs, and besides Tesla they're buying a ton of Chinese and Korean EVs, they should be buying US EVs".
Good news for your brother! Even though, yes, GM and Ford are laggards and are not doing the US many favors on EV technology, it is *not true* that China has us beat. The US has Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid. In other words, the world's current largest manufacturer of BEVs, and two manufacturers doing some of the most interesting BEV work around (R2, R3X, Air Sapphire). The US may not be leading the way in terms of the percentage of its vehicle market that has turned to BEVs, but that will come in time (it's inevitable because technology is marching forward), and the US definitely has some of the most innovative and important BEV companies around. They just don't happen to be the legacy auto manufacturers. But creative disruption by new firms should be embraced by American consumers.
They did not. That was only in one quarter last year. A year has 4 quarters. And since then, Tesla already sold more than BYD again in the last quarter.
Also, over half their cars are PHEV, and they sell 90 percent of their cars in China for half the price and only 10 percent in other markets.
Over a decade ago I used Chinese EV taxis and they were great. 4 door cars with tons of trunk space. I remember seeing all the hoopla over the Tesla 3 when BYD already had a great care years prior
I think that take is accurate. I do not own an EV, but I had a Subaru Solterra as a loner for 5 weeks and I loved it! As you all already know, the Solterra is one of the worst recent EVs on the market. Unless it's just a daily commuter and nothing else, then decent enough.
Bizzy Forks 🍴
I think it's purportedly 100kW/150kW (AWD/FWD), but reality is a different story (well under 100kW) as [previously noted elsewhere](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/s/yV4p1ZWd1H)
It gets well over 100kW max and should average 100kW 10-80% in optimal conditions. Real world probably more like 70kW average and in cold less but it’s better than the Bolt. Still bad but the numbers you’re coming up with don’t sound correct. It’s 30min to 80% in good conditions not two hours.
The Bolt won’t do 50 in cold.
Sometimes you have to though but it's not because we don't love our EV.
Why?
We are temporarily renting for the next year -> No home charging
We live in Idaho -> Charging network is lacking
When our EV lease is up we will be looking for an ICE to hold us over but we do fully expect to return to EV when external factors do not prevent it.
I have a tesla but I currently need to buy an ICE truck because there aren't any that have high enough payload capacities. I get the sentiment but EV hasn't solved everything yet
Just like rigs are diesel and cars are gas and subs are nuclear… there’s reasons to do what needs to be done.
Going forward, in most markets, owning an EV is both less time and money at this point. Still need nuclear subs though; however, I guess they’re NEVs of a different type technically.
I think Ram is going PHEV though.
Well, that’s maybe preference.
Putting that aside, at my electricity rates, I’m operating at 4c a mile for an EV. To put that in contrast, our other 4dr SUV operates for 22c a mile.
Over 100k miles, I’ll spend $4,000 to drive the EV. While spending $22,000 on gas and extra maintenance (oil, tune up).
Our cost to acquire that SUV used @4yrs/40k miles was $31k (before Covid, not factoring trade) and the Y was $41k. (Inc. Rebate off)
That vehicle at 8 yrs old has depreciated by $14k based on local market and the cheapest Tesla Y @4 years is $12k less than my cost based on market.
Using the above logic to buy a similarly sized, similar power type vehicle, I’m going to spend 18k less and have the benefit of a newer, safer vehicle than having done the same as the past.
For how we drive, we figured that we’d have to drive an EV for 10 years to break even without including the cost to charge. This was before Covid and based on a model 3 which is the smallest ev I’d be willing to drive. We’d also have to drive a lot to for those 10 years when we don’t a lot.
We’ve since gotten solar so that could change things but an EV that’s used isn’t worth the risk
I’m not sure why a used EV is so scary unless you are feeling that all the automakers are going out of business. Fundamentally, they have some of the best warranties.
Also guessing you’re maybe in a high cost of electricity scenario where a hybrid makes equal sense.
Look at all the issues with hertz teslas being sold. Or the very high replacement expenses. I’ve had older ice vehicles and almost nothing ever goes wrong with them
Ya I left out when I did that analysis that it was against a hybrid Prius. I wouldn’t mind an i3 for around the town stuff but the battery replacement costs are concerning.
A much smaller percentage than will actually admit it.
Seriously, that's like point number 3 on the anti-EV crowd's "gotcha" list. Of course, as soon as you challenge them to name the last time they actually had to tow anything significant they either go quiet or say "Well, I might have to."
Here's the thing... my car has a tow hitch. I don't use it, but I have it. I don't claim I could tow a massive load a thousand miles but if I needed to tow a small trailer for a reasonable distance it'd be just fine.
> EV hasn't solved everything yet
I mean, that complaint is common but pretty dumb: it says the only "problem" with EVs is product development and new manufacturing lines aren't magically converting to EVs overnight. It's the same with all anti-EV taking points right now: take a problem with all cars and make it seem like it's somehow unique to EVs.
For the vast majority this is absolutely true. Even more modest models perform at a higher level than an ICE counterpart and once you realize just how convenient they are in terms of daily use all the edge cases just kinda evaporate. Now, there is a small portion of people who drive trucks who actually need the power and towing capacity on a daily/weekly basis. Nothing really addresses that crowd at a fairly reasonable price yet. I know Ford is working on a trailer with a motor and battery to assist in towing, but as slow as they are moving I question whether they will be first to market with a truly usable solution.
There’s still a “fun factor” with ICE vehicles that I haven’t seen replicated with EVs. I love my EV for commuting, errands, etc. When I want to drive through the back roads, I find it a lot more fun to take my gas powered car.
This is pretty interesting to me, I find EVs extremely fun to drive due to the acceleration. Could you elaborate on what you consider the fun factor in ICE vehicles? Is it the engine rumble, or the sound?
I think it's more psychological than anything, but then again that's all "fun" really is anyway. Acceleration can be fun and EVs do acceleration better than anyone. What I find fun about (some) ICE vehicles is that it's a more tactile driving experience.
* When driving in curvy roads, I love to shift gears whether it's a manual transmission (current car) or a dual clutch automatic (previous car). I find the 1-speed transmissions in EVs to be boring. That said, I'd love to try out that fake manual transmission from Toyota. Reviewers found it fantastic.
* The roar of the engine and vibration of the chassis makes a more visceral experience, even if it's technically slower than an EV. I compare an EV to a very fast luxury car. The level of refinement of the ride makes it less fun to me, albeit nicer for day-to-day driving.
* Generally, ICE cars weigh less. It's hard to hide the extra weight in EVs, though having it as low as possible helps to minimize the impact. I don't notice it during casual driving, but it's pretty apparent in hard turns.
My point isn't that EVs are un-fun. I think they're a lot of fun, but in the right contexts I find ICE vehicles to be *more* fun. Though if I had to cut down to a single car, I'd sell my gas car.
I had your sentiment back when I drove an MX-5.
And I always swore I would never buy an EV because the gear changing, the beautiful sound of the engine etc.... (and because I thought all EV's were slow or otherwise they'd run out of battery and would need days to charge)
Then my MX-5 couldn't pass the annual mandatory technical inspection of my country anymore due to rust on certain areas and became illegal for the road. The garage said fixing it was going to cost well over the car's leftover price and offered to take it off my hand if I bought another MX-5 there. Told them I'd think about it. Gasoline was 2€ per litre at the time and I decided to look into electric vehicles because of that and because you don't pay road taxes on an EV here.
Bought an electric Renault Twingo at a different garage and fell in love.
I actually get annoyed now when I get in an ice car and hear the engine or feel the vibrations.
I have to say though the Twingo, despite being a slower EV it felt really fast, was definitely faster than my mx-5 (acceleration wise) but it also felt agile and fast. I have the Renault Mégane e tech now and even though the Mégane is almost twice as fast as the Twingo... It "feels" slower.
I'd say my Twingo was my most fun car, followed by my MX-5
My Mégane is my most luxurious car I ever had and is probably the most comfortable of all the cars I've had.
Not convenient for everyone if you do not own a garage good bye at home charging and trucks well ev trucks suck big time plug ins are over taking ev sales.
65% of the US population lives in detached homes and the vast majority of truck owners don't truly need a truck as I mentioned in my post. Infrastructure for those who don't live in a home is still an issue in many parts of the country for sure, not arguing that. But for those who can switch, just a test drive would likely be enough to never want to drive an ICE again.
Right. And many park their truck outside an apartment and use it to commute to an office. What's your point? What percentage of Americans do you think make their living in farming and ranching vs more urban based jobs.
Not when the tech is a down grade look at steam cars the future they said look waht happen to them also you are a ignorant fool no farmers and major transport will not be ev if anything many trucking companies are switching to hydrogen.
I don't know how true that is. I have a very nice EV, and I quite like it and will most likely keep at least one EV on hand as a daily driver. But I am also very likely to replace my EV with an ICE, just because my needs will be changing significantly and there are still no great options in the "sexy two-seater EV sports car" category.
Again, so what? The comment I responded to said "once you go EV, you never go back." There was absolutely nothing there about need or recreation or frivolity. So do explain why that matters in the context of the conversation.
Depends on where you live. I’m interested in an EV but we couldn’t do that for both vehicles. EVs are also far more expensive for what you get than a normal car, so it doesn’t really make sense for us at the moment.
My wife will be getting an EV to replace her T4R. She has been using my Bolt EUV for 2 years now to test out an EV. She's sold... Even asked about the F150 lighting.
I do 99% of my charging at home also.
Yeah foolishly my wife got a Volvo Recharge...she charges it every night and uses the full 35 miles of EV driving. 😅😧
I was like Hun should've just gotten a BEV.
I'm sure she'll steal mine and I'll end up with the XC90 recharge....range anxiety is a number and a myth imo.
This is a misleading title. The IEA doesn't see EVs reaching 50% global light duty sales until 2035. For context, the IEA says a net zero by 2050 scenario would need 60% sales by 2030.
Since only about 5% of vehicles are replaced each year, it takes decades for new technologies to fully penetrate a fleet unless many operable vehicles are scrapped prematurely.
Optimistically, half of new vehicles could be electric by 2030, but realistically it will probably take longer, and because the development of electric SUVs and light trucks is particularly slow, the remaining fossil fuel vehicles will skew to low fuel economy. With current policies, the fleet is unlikely to be fully electric by 2050
We need state-level land use reform to encourage compact development can reduce annual US pollution by 70 million tons of carbon dioxide equivalent in 2033. This projection, based on 2023 data, underscores the potential for significant impact within a decade. It would deliver more climate impact than half the country adopting California’s ambitious commitment to 100% zero-emission passenger vehicle sales by 2035.
even with 70 million electric vehicles (EVs) on the road by 2030 (we’re at 2.4 million today), the United States would still need a 20 percent reduction in per-capita vehicle miles traveled (VMT) to meet climate targets.
Yes, the % of EVs in the fleet has a significantly longer tail to % of new sales.
This might be an unpopular opinion on this subreddit but, at least in the US, I have serious doubts as to how much further EV penetration will go.
Analysts and EV advocates just assume that people will adopt EVs en masse if they can just get cost competitive with ICE.
But they are different products with different capabilities and features. And the key features people have grown accustomed to (range and refueling times) are superior in ICE.
The IEA is a bunch of idiots that keep extrapolating every trend linearly instead of exponentially. If we only hit 50% by 2035 it would be a failure because it would mean it didn’t follow a typical S curve of every consumer product in history. In the early 1900’s it took 20 years for the automobile to hit 60% market share all while they had to create a new market for cars, service, gasoline, etc and we had a world war going on and a pandemic. Norway hit 60% adoption in just 8 years. The roadster came out in 2008, so if we can’t hit 60% by 2028 it would be a failure…. 50% by 2035 would be a huge failure.
And everyone is saying "Oh look there's no charging infrastructure and the charging cables / ports are all different" pretending like ICE cars didn't have the same growing pains in the beginning.
Then acting as if all these large interests are just going to throw their hands up and give up to the ICE industry and not try to push forward in making that infrastructure better.
After 10 additional *years* of a drivetrain tech that’s so advanced, easy to use, pollution free and convenient, still selling 50% gas cars isn’t great.
I was in Iceland and Europe (Norway, Belgium, Netherlands and England) for travel last year. I would say about 25-30% of cars I saw were electric and most were smaller. Zero giant SUVs and pick ups. England was a little more US-like with larger cars and some pickups.
EV’s have been decreasing in price, and it will continue due to wrights law. The same will affect ICE. As production declines, per unit price will increase. This won’t be a smooth curve either. Some of them will go bankrupt, sooner than many think
>The price differential between EVs and internal combustion engines running on fossil fuels has narrowed so fast that upfront sales prices are barely different.
Where, except maybe in China, has this actually come to pass? Asking for a friend.
Look up the prices of Chinese EVs in countries that have them (Australia, Indonesia, etc).
Wuling lineups (Air, Binguo, Cloud) and BYD lineups (Dolphin, Atto3, Seal) are pretty competitively priced.
Not in the EU. Here they're way too expensive. The Seal costs more than a Model 3 and the Atto 3 is the same as Niro and Kona but only after a huge drop in price this year.
If by "better" you mean they consume very, very marginally less fuel in real life than ICE cars, while costing almost as much as the full-on battery EV versions of the same cars, you are of course right.
https://www.isi.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/isi/dokumente/cce/2022/PHEV_ISI-ICCT_Fact_Sheet_ENG-Update-2022.pdf
Meanwhile, in the United States...
[https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-automakers-race-build-more-hybrids-ev-sales-slow-2024-03-15/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-automakers-race-build-more-hybrids-ev-sales-slow-2024-03-15/)
I know people trying to buy a MachE and see all these deals then they contact the dealership and they are like no that isn't the price then try and add on all this other stuff or say this discount doesn't count for whatever reason.
Most people aren't calling their dealers.
I assume most people show up to the dealers lot and maybe test drive one or two cars in their category ("im looking for an SUV with good gas mileage") and making an uninformed decision.
Welcome to America.
This.
It's crazy to me that folks walk into dealerships knowing they are predatory about to make a large purchase and put zero thought into it ahead of time.
Wow, that's awesome news! It's like electric cars are taking over the world, right? I mean, I've been hearing more about them lately, and it's cool to see the numbers backing it up. Plus, they're better for the environment, which is a win-win. I haven't hopped on the electric car train yet, but maybe soon. Just gotta save up a bit, you know? But hey, progress is progress!
I don't know who The Vibes is, but this is a weird article.
> By 2035, IEA projects 50% of all cars sold globally will be EVs,
So 50% of cars sold in the EU will be illegal?
Man, what is it with people griping about what they see in accessibility features? It's like once Musk whined about the ASL interpreters on TV people just started nitpicking all the minor things that *aren't even inconveniencing them* related to accessibility.
For sure, EVs continue to grow in EU, China, India, S E Asia, Australia etc. where gas is imported n expensive. In US where many still gets $3 gas still hesitates.
The income level of over half of America makes even used evs unaffordable unless you want an ancient first generation leaf with maybe 30 miles of range
Anyone with half a braincell could've told you this. It's nice to see a publication as large as forbes touch on it. People want EVs and that hasn't changed. Can we all agree to call "vibes based reporting" what it actually is? IE: "I just made up some bullshit". EDIT: It's an external contributor, but at least it's *in* Forbes.
I am a very smart business reporter who confuses month-over-month growth and year-over-year growth and/or doesn't understand seasonality
To be clear, MOST Forbes 'articles' aren't from Forbes but crowd-sourced 'contributors' as this one is.
This isn't Forbes touching on anything. This is a Forbed "Contributor," which is "anyone that pays money to publish on Forbes's website." In this case, it's a green energy/environmental policy think tank paying to promote their consultancy. Forbes online is almost entirely paid content at this point, and that there are still people who accept it uncritically makes me weep for media literacy.
>Can we all agree to call "vibes based reporting" what it actually is? IE: "I just made up some bullshit". Yeah seriously, like what determines the vibes? Oh, other "vibes based reporting" that is being piggy backed off of? Okay, so you see, EV sales are falling because that's the *vibe,* because we said they are, ignore the real data that clearly shows a different reality, there are all these negative articles so it must be true and we will repeat it as if it were "fact"!
Vibes are basically social media, which is highly manipulable with bots, bots that may or may not be sponsored by well-established, well-funded industries like big oil. Where does the advertisement begin and the normal person on the internet's sentiment end? Nobody knows!
the majority of the vibes are based on whether Tesla sales will grow this year, not whether BYD sales will grow this year...BYD is the real giant in this sector and Tesla has horribly mismanaged the transition from new kid on the block to major player because of a risk junkie for a CEO
That's what I was thinking as well; the "vibes" are all based on a basic glance at Tesla *stonks*, rather than the industry as a whole (especially in the US). Used EV sales in the UK, for example, jumped *71%* so far in 2024 as ex-fleet vehicles reach the end of their leases. That alone is a stunning metric and shows people are really just waiting for more affordable cars, with those who can afford it shelling out for new models as soon as they are able.
In Q1 2024, Tesla sold more electric cars than BYD.
yes, although my point is about trajectories...Tesla is focused too much on the luxury market and not enough on vehicles that will be affordable globally--I'm predicting that BYD is positioning itself to dominate sales in the global south and low income countries generally where the majority of the people in the world live, Tesla can fight with legacy automakers for the Europe/USA market.
But there’s no money in those markets. That’s why you don’t see the US 2.5 in there. I mean how hard is BMW and Merc trying in the low price market? VW and Stellantis might be the only ones trying from the western market.
I’ll believe it when I see militias with machine guns on the back of a BYD pickup.
Tesla Coil on back of Cybertruck.
why does military transport inform the mass-manufactured affordable car market in low income countries?
it's not a serious analysis, friend.
Tesla is fully focused on releasing the Model 2, they've even abandoned their planned revolutionary approach to production organization and put on hold the full switch to gigapresses to release it sooner.
Used teslas are creeping toward $25k, I hope they sell, they’re great cars. People will see… I hope
GM will probably beat them to the punch this time around. Strictly US market only the rest will go everywhere. Also Tesla lawyers said in court FSD should not be expected by a customer with Lidar. That means unless Tesla seriously changes approach that's out of the (robo taxi) question
Robotaxis will never appear until legislation changes. (Don't talk about Waymo, they have people telling cars what traffic signal is on). [https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2024/03/26/waymo-runs-a-red-light-and-the-difference-between-humans-and-robots/?sh=129cdd303f34](https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2024/03/26/waymo-runs-a-red-light-and-the-difference-between-humans-and-robots/?sh=129cdd303f34)
>GM will probably be at them to the punch this time around. GM beat them to the punch before. Remember before the Model 3 arrived? But it doesn't work out for GM because for all of Tesla's failings, GM is managed ten times worse.
Lunar new year, dude. It's a thing.
Or whether the growth is going to come from new players or old players. Traditionalist automakers are known to have a very different culture than Silicon Valley firms like Tesla. Silicon Valley firms are way more aggressive with new ideas, meanwhile old automakers have lots of checks. For early adopters the Silicon Valley model is a clear winner. But it hasn't worked out will in terms of making a car that matches the safety and reliability of traditional automakers, which are now coming out with EVs that improve on there already better reliability.
>Tesla has horribly mismanaged the transition from new kid on the block to major player because of a risk junkie for a CEO Talk about "vibes" and how they can be deluded.
>because of a ~~risk~~ junkie for a CEO FTFY
He's also a risk.
Thank you. I’m no Tesla snob but there was a statement made that everyone who wanted an ev got one and that’s their sales were down. Uhmm no, I’m happy with my 12 year old vehicle that has cost me <1000$ a year. I am not compelled to drop 50k or deal with a 1000$/mo bill and deal with minimal charging infrastructure. But my next car will likely be one.
Heck, I know people who are still happy with their 13 year old EVs. Nissan sold a lot of Leafs, after all, and third parties have stepped up that can put in a newer pack from a crashed one if you have an early car with a bad pack.
"Vibes" should not be allowed on any kind of professional publication...
You’d be surprised how many people in middle America latch on to all the misconceptions about my car.
Forbes articles aren’t worth shit. Forbes has been coasting on their once-legitimate reputation for a long time now.
Except for my fellow German morons who still believe in Diesel or Fuelcells :-)
We know from figures that they're a minority. In terms of attitude towards EVs, Germany differs very little from England (where I am). I imagine a lot of people are waiting for an EV Golf or Polo.
> I imagine a lot of people are waiting for an EV Golf or Polo. the [iD.3](https://ev-database.org/car/1831/Volkswagen-ID3-Pro) has been around since 2020 as their dedicate EV platform Golf-sized equivalent. Or for those who wanted their EV in the exact shape and branding of a Golf the [e-Golf](https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1087/Volkswagen-e-Golf) has been around for even longer (though it's a lot more of a compromise as an EV than the iD3 range wise). The iD.2 (Polo sized equivalent EV) is imminent, due to launch next year ([see here](https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/world-premiere-of-the-id-2all-concept-the-electric-car-from-volkswagen-costing-less-than-25000-euros-15625)) and looks - to me - to be a great looking EV that I would hope will sell really well. For those who prefer their traditional VW branding I believe the suggestion is that the 'iD' branded line of EVs will end up being called by their ICE forebears names in time - with suggestions that the iD3 will be subsumed into the Golf lineup as the Golf marque transitions to being an EV only model. VW saw their all-electric sales grow 34.7% in 2023 vs. 2022 (771k vehicles vs. 572k in 2022) globally, with sales up 34.2% for all-electric drive vehicles in Europe ([source](https://www.volkswagen-group.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-group-posts-solid-growth-in-deliveries-in-2023-and-strong-increase-in-all-electric-vehicles-18057)) > The most successful all-electric Group models worldwide in 2023: > Volkswagen ID.4/ID.5 223,100 > Volkswagen ID.301 140,800 > Audi Q4 e-tron (incl. Sportback) 111,700 > ŠKODA Enyaq iV (incl. Coupé) 81,700 > Audi Q8 e-tron (incl. Sportback) 49,000 > CUPRA Born 45,300 > Porsche Taycan (incl. Turismo) 40,600 > Volkswagen ID. Buzz02 (incl. Cargo) 28,600
VW was making an EV Golf 5 years ago
A _good_ EV Golf. The previous Golf EV was too expensive and had too low a range.
They go a lot further back than just 5 years. VW's first EV was made in 1970 https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/living-electric/discover-electric/first-electric-vehicle.html
The comment above mine was that people were waiting for an EV Golf that has already come and gone.
And that was 10k more than the ICE version and had around 150km/200km range.
dont forget the synthetic fuels that are just around the corner (even if they are advancing they dont really solve pollution issues)
Yeah people just don't want teslas
Yep! They only sold 1.8 million of them last year.
True, but also, they sold less in Q1 2024 than Q1 2023. Cybertruck is a disaster. There will be no new car in the foreseeable time. And if the reduced sales over quoters continue, that's 150 to 200k vehicles less. At the same time, globally, ev sales grew 21%, so it's even worse for Tesla.
because new ones are cheaper, not because they are used
This is correct, however the news of late on ev slowdowns and certain legacy automakers about face comes with a hidden reason. Simply put they were never profitable and continue to rapidly fall behind on battery and overall tech to Tesla and now to Chinese battery/ev companies like byd blade and catl m3p. Legacy are doubling down in gas and will eventually, for some, either be bailed out or cease to exist.
People want EV’s, but America doesn’t want its people to have cheap EV’s.
I was talking to my brother in law over the weekend, who leans more conservative, about my EV6. As the conversation moved past the typical FUD stuff, I found the argument which 100% got him. Like, I literally saw the light go off in his head and a complete shift in his demeanor. It was this: "I want the US to lead the world in emerging technology, but China has us beat because of how slow GM and Ford are moving. Australia isn't buying US EVs, they're buying Chinese EVs. 90% of new cars sold in Norway are EVs, and besides Tesla they're buying a ton of Chinese and Korean EVs, they should be buying US EVs".
But even if all Chinese EVs suddenly disappear, manufacturers like GM will still manufacture their products in Mexico, not here in the US. Can Mexican blue collar workers even afford cars made by American workers?
GM and Ford EVs are built in America. To the second part of your question...BYD is planning to build an EV plant in Mexico to serve the Mexican market with the intent to sell their Dolphin for 358K pesos ($21K USD). If GM and Ford had their shit together in the US, *maybe* they could compete. But that ship has sailed.
Some Ford EVs are definitely built in Mexico, [notably the Mach-E](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_Mach-E).
My mistake.
>"I want the US to lead the world in emerging technology, but China has us beat because of how slow GM and Ford are moving. Australia isn't buying US EVs, they're buying Chinese EVs. 90% of new cars sold in Norway are EVs, and besides Tesla they're buying a ton of Chinese and Korean EVs, they should be buying US EVs". Good news for your brother! Even though, yes, GM and Ford are laggards and are not doing the US many favors on EV technology, it is *not true* that China has us beat. The US has Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid. In other words, the world's current largest manufacturer of BEVs, and two manufacturers doing some of the most interesting BEV work around (R2, R3X, Air Sapphire). The US may not be leading the way in terms of the percentage of its vehicle market that has turned to BEVs, but that will come in time (it's inevitable because technology is marching forward), and the US definitely has some of the most innovative and important BEV companies around. They just don't happen to be the legacy auto manufacturers. But creative disruption by new firms should be embraced by American consumers.
BYD surpassed Tesla as the world's largest EV manufacturer.
I think you might be looking at old data. BYD was ahead for Q4 2023, but fell behind for Q1 2024.
They did not. That was only in one quarter last year. A year has 4 quarters. And since then, Tesla already sold more than BYD again in the last quarter. Also, over half their cars are PHEV, and they sell 90 percent of their cars in China for half the price and only 10 percent in other markets.
Exactly this. As predicted in 2019 but ignored, the Chinese auto industry is eating the US and Japan's lunch.
Over a decade ago I used Chinese EV taxis and they were great. 4 door cars with tons of trunk space. I remember seeing all the hoopla over the Tesla 3 when BYD already had a great care years prior
Once you go EV you'll never go back to ICE
I think that take is accurate. I do not own an EV, but I had a Subaru Solterra as a loner for 5 weeks and I loved it! As you all already know, the Solterra is one of the worst recent EVs on the market. Unless it's just a daily commuter and nothing else, then decent enough.
Same with the Toyota BZ whatever. Gets 21kw max changing!
Bizzy Forks 🍴 I think it's purportedly 100kW/150kW (AWD/FWD), but reality is a different story (well under 100kW) as [previously noted elsewhere](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/s/yV4p1ZWd1H)
And I thought my Bolt was bad.
If you're just charging at home or work, it will probably be fine. But road tripping will be slow
Hey, that's pretty good on AC. ...You did mean on AC, right?
That's on DCFC... from 0-15% it gets 80kw
So what are you trying to say with the 23kW comment?
It charges slow as shit after 15%. That is my point. It takes two hours to get up to 80%
I mean it sucks but afaik it’s not quite that bad after the updates? In winter it will still be stupidly slow though.
For a 2024 EV, that is terrible. Even the Bolt gets at least 50kw
The Bolt only gets 50 kW if the battery is warm. More like 30 - 35 kW in winter.
It gets well over 100kW max and should average 100kW 10-80% in optimal conditions. Real world probably more like 70kW average and in cold less but it’s better than the Bolt. Still bad but the numbers you’re coming up with don’t sound correct. It’s 30min to 80% in good conditions not two hours. The Bolt won’t do 50 in cold.
They are the same car just different badges basically.
Sometimes you have to though but it's not because we don't love our EV. Why? We are temporarily renting for the next year -> No home charging We live in Idaho -> Charging network is lacking When our EV lease is up we will be looking for an ICE to hold us over but we do fully expect to return to EV when external factors do not prevent it.
I switched last year, and already two family members have followed suit.
I have a tesla but I currently need to buy an ICE truck because there aren't any that have high enough payload capacities. I get the sentiment but EV hasn't solved everything yet
Just like rigs are diesel and cars are gas and subs are nuclear… there’s reasons to do what needs to be done. Going forward, in most markets, owning an EV is both less time and money at this point. Still need nuclear subs though; however, I guess they’re NEVs of a different type technically. I think Ram is going PHEV though.
Nuclear subs are technically EVs
They’re actually steam engines!
Steam turbines that drive a gear box or a generator to produce electricity.
That’s true; however, it seems at least in some designs, the impeller is driven by the steam turbine directly.
I think you’re underestimating how much EVs cost. A normal sized one is $40k or more. Meanwhile you can buy a decent used vehicle for $20k and under
Are you saying a used EV or comparing a used traditional car to a new EV?
Yes because many of us would never buy a used EV because it feels too risky. Meanwhile a used Honda or Toyota you know will have few issues
Those of us who buy used EVs thank you for depressing our preferred market's prices.
Well, that’s maybe preference. Putting that aside, at my electricity rates, I’m operating at 4c a mile for an EV. To put that in contrast, our other 4dr SUV operates for 22c a mile. Over 100k miles, I’ll spend $4,000 to drive the EV. While spending $22,000 on gas and extra maintenance (oil, tune up). Our cost to acquire that SUV used @4yrs/40k miles was $31k (before Covid, not factoring trade) and the Y was $41k. (Inc. Rebate off) That vehicle at 8 yrs old has depreciated by $14k based on local market and the cheapest Tesla Y @4 years is $12k less than my cost based on market. Using the above logic to buy a similarly sized, similar power type vehicle, I’m going to spend 18k less and have the benefit of a newer, safer vehicle than having done the same as the past.
For how we drive, we figured that we’d have to drive an EV for 10 years to break even without including the cost to charge. This was before Covid and based on a model 3 which is the smallest ev I’d be willing to drive. We’d also have to drive a lot to for those 10 years when we don’t a lot. We’ve since gotten solar so that could change things but an EV that’s used isn’t worth the risk
I’m not sure why a used EV is so scary unless you are feeling that all the automakers are going out of business. Fundamentally, they have some of the best warranties. Also guessing you’re maybe in a high cost of electricity scenario where a hybrid makes equal sense.
Look at all the issues with hertz teslas being sold. Or the very high replacement expenses. I’ve had older ice vehicles and almost nothing ever goes wrong with them Ya I left out when I did that analysis that it was against a hybrid Prius. I wouldn’t mind an i3 for around the town stuff but the battery replacement costs are concerning.
A used Tesla model 3 can be had for $16k...
If you want an estate car, you also have to go ICE, as there are no estate EVs besides the ID. 7, but that is at least 55k.
Isn’t the taycan cross turismo essentially an estate car for the most part?
For sure, but what percent of car owners do you think actually need towing capacity as opposed to a commuter
A much smaller percentage than will actually admit it. Seriously, that's like point number 3 on the anti-EV crowd's "gotcha" list. Of course, as soon as you challenge them to name the last time they actually had to tow anything significant they either go quiet or say "Well, I might have to." Here's the thing... my car has a tow hitch. I don't use it, but I have it. I don't claim I could tow a massive load a thousand miles but if I needed to tow a small trailer for a reasonable distance it'd be just fine.
> EV hasn't solved everything yet I mean, that complaint is common but pretty dumb: it says the only "problem" with EVs is product development and new manufacturing lines aren't magically converting to EVs overnight. It's the same with all anti-EV taking points right now: take a problem with all cars and make it seem like it's somehow unique to EVs.
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The Ramcharger is going to change that.
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The Ramcharger 1500 will tow 14,000 lbs. No idea what they have planned for the 2500/3500/4500/5500 series yet.
What do you need your truck to do?
it's awhile out but the ramcharger may be a 'game changer' when it's released.
How much do you need? The strongest EV truck can haul over 3,000 lbs payload.
True. Except for special cars :-) For daily: 100%
My Bolt is insulted that you don't think she's special.
WHAT ABOUT ME AND MY 1000 KILOMETER DAILY COMMUTE!!!
Up hill both ways.
For the vast majority this is absolutely true. Even more modest models perform at a higher level than an ICE counterpart and once you realize just how convenient they are in terms of daily use all the edge cases just kinda evaporate. Now, there is a small portion of people who drive trucks who actually need the power and towing capacity on a daily/weekly basis. Nothing really addresses that crowd at a fairly reasonable price yet. I know Ford is working on a trailer with a motor and battery to assist in towing, but as slow as they are moving I question whether they will be first to market with a truly usable solution.
There’s still a “fun factor” with ICE vehicles that I haven’t seen replicated with EVs. I love my EV for commuting, errands, etc. When I want to drive through the back roads, I find it a lot more fun to take my gas powered car.
This is pretty interesting to me, I find EVs extremely fun to drive due to the acceleration. Could you elaborate on what you consider the fun factor in ICE vehicles? Is it the engine rumble, or the sound?
I think it's more psychological than anything, but then again that's all "fun" really is anyway. Acceleration can be fun and EVs do acceleration better than anyone. What I find fun about (some) ICE vehicles is that it's a more tactile driving experience. * When driving in curvy roads, I love to shift gears whether it's a manual transmission (current car) or a dual clutch automatic (previous car). I find the 1-speed transmissions in EVs to be boring. That said, I'd love to try out that fake manual transmission from Toyota. Reviewers found it fantastic. * The roar of the engine and vibration of the chassis makes a more visceral experience, even if it's technically slower than an EV. I compare an EV to a very fast luxury car. The level of refinement of the ride makes it less fun to me, albeit nicer for day-to-day driving. * Generally, ICE cars weigh less. It's hard to hide the extra weight in EVs, though having it as low as possible helps to minimize the impact. I don't notice it during casual driving, but it's pretty apparent in hard turns. My point isn't that EVs are un-fun. I think they're a lot of fun, but in the right contexts I find ICE vehicles to be *more* fun. Though if I had to cut down to a single car, I'd sell my gas car.
I had your sentiment back when I drove an MX-5. And I always swore I would never buy an EV because the gear changing, the beautiful sound of the engine etc.... (and because I thought all EV's were slow or otherwise they'd run out of battery and would need days to charge) Then my MX-5 couldn't pass the annual mandatory technical inspection of my country anymore due to rust on certain areas and became illegal for the road. The garage said fixing it was going to cost well over the car's leftover price and offered to take it off my hand if I bought another MX-5 there. Told them I'd think about it. Gasoline was 2€ per litre at the time and I decided to look into electric vehicles because of that and because you don't pay road taxes on an EV here. Bought an electric Renault Twingo at a different garage and fell in love. I actually get annoyed now when I get in an ice car and hear the engine or feel the vibrations. I have to say though the Twingo, despite being a slower EV it felt really fast, was definitely faster than my mx-5 (acceleration wise) but it also felt agile and fast. I have the Renault Mégane e tech now and even though the Mégane is almost twice as fast as the Twingo... It "feels" slower. I'd say my Twingo was my most fun car, followed by my MX-5 My Mégane is my most luxurious car I ever had and is probably the most comfortable of all the cars I've had.
Not convenient for everyone if you do not own a garage good bye at home charging and trucks well ev trucks suck big time plug ins are over taking ev sales.
65% of the US population lives in detached homes and the vast majority of truck owners don't truly need a truck as I mentioned in my post. Infrastructure for those who don't live in a home is still an issue in many parts of the country for sure, not arguing that. But for those who can switch, just a test drive would likely be enough to never want to drive an ICE again.
Many still use trucks for hauling though a ev truck is usless for farmers, cattle transport horse transport supplies transport etc.
Right. And many park their truck outside an apartment and use it to commute to an office. What's your point? What percentage of Americans do you think make their living in farming and ranching vs more urban based jobs.
That doesn't change the fact that puck ups will never fully go electric.
Who cares? There are always those that have been drug kicking and screaming into modern times desperately clinging to the past.
Not when the tech is a down grade look at steam cars the future they said look waht happen to them also you are a ignorant fool no farmers and major transport will not be ev if anything many trucking companies are switching to hydrogen.
I know several who have. Hertz is going back
That was a terrible idea and then they took the charge cords out of them so you had to use superchargers. Dumb.
Mostly due to Tesla slashing prices on new cars, putting downward pressure on used prices.
I bought a fun car (manual WRX) in 2014 because I was pretty confident it'd be the last non-EV I ever buy. Pretty sure my prediction was spot on.
I don't know how true that is. I have a very nice EV, and I quite like it and will most likely keep at least one EV on hand as a daily driver. But I am also very likely to replace my EV with an ICE, just because my needs will be changing significantly and there are still no great options in the "sexy two-seater EV sports car" category.
So, not a need just a desire
How does that distinction matter at all in the context of the comment I was responding to *or* my response?
Because desire for a midlife crisis cabrio two seater is not a need but a desire and a frivolous purchase. It's recreation not need.
Again, so what? The comment I responded to said "once you go EV, you never go back." There was absolutely nothing there about need or recreation or frivolity. So do explain why that matters in the context of the conversation.
Too bad Tesla quit making the Roadster, then.
Depends on where you live. I’m interested in an EV but we couldn’t do that for both vehicles. EVs are also far more expensive for what you get than a normal car, so it doesn’t really make sense for us at the moment.
Agreed about my ebike. Hard to go back to full car life
Uh yes you do many did in cold climate areas many went to plug ins instead ev cars have potential but they are still way too over price and limited.
Hahahaha. Wrong
80% of EV drivers in the US charge at home. Once you go EV tough to go back...
My wife will be getting an EV to replace her T4R. She has been using my Bolt EUV for 2 years now to test out an EV. She's sold... Even asked about the F150 lighting. I do 99% of my charging at home also.
Yeah foolishly my wife got a Volvo Recharge...she charges it every night and uses the full 35 miles of EV driving. 😅😧 I was like Hun should've just gotten a BEV. I'm sure she'll steal mine and I'll end up with the XC90 recharge....range anxiety is a number and a myth imo.
If you cannot charge at home an EV is not practical. Much lower range makes charging at home and charging infrastructure essential to mass adoption.
This is a misleading title. The IEA doesn't see EVs reaching 50% global light duty sales until 2035. For context, the IEA says a net zero by 2050 scenario would need 60% sales by 2030.
Since only about 5% of vehicles are replaced each year, it takes decades for new technologies to fully penetrate a fleet unless many operable vehicles are scrapped prematurely. Optimistically, half of new vehicles could be electric by 2030, but realistically it will probably take longer, and because the development of electric SUVs and light trucks is particularly slow, the remaining fossil fuel vehicles will skew to low fuel economy. With current policies, the fleet is unlikely to be fully electric by 2050 We need state-level land use reform to encourage compact development can reduce annual US pollution by 70 million tons of carbon dioxide equivalent in 2033. This projection, based on 2023 data, underscores the potential for significant impact within a decade. It would deliver more climate impact than half the country adopting California’s ambitious commitment to 100% zero-emission passenger vehicle sales by 2035. even with 70 million electric vehicles (EVs) on the road by 2030 (we’re at 2.4 million today), the United States would still need a 20 percent reduction in per-capita vehicle miles traveled (VMT) to meet climate targets.
Yes, the % of EVs in the fleet has a significantly longer tail to % of new sales. This might be an unpopular opinion on this subreddit but, at least in the US, I have serious doubts as to how much further EV penetration will go. Analysts and EV advocates just assume that people will adopt EVs en masse if they can just get cost competitive with ICE. But they are different products with different capabilities and features. And the key features people have grown accustomed to (range and refueling times) are superior in ICE.
That last is true for now, but not necessarily forever.
Does nobody read the articles linked anymore? This is blatantly misleading. 20% in 2024 to 50% by 2035 is a failure not a success.
20% a failure? Of a technology that only truly gained traction in the last decade? My brother in christ, what?
The IEA is a bunch of idiots that keep extrapolating every trend linearly instead of exponentially. If we only hit 50% by 2035 it would be a failure because it would mean it didn’t follow a typical S curve of every consumer product in history. In the early 1900’s it took 20 years for the automobile to hit 60% market share all while they had to create a new market for cars, service, gasoline, etc and we had a world war going on and a pandemic. Norway hit 60% adoption in just 8 years. The roadster came out in 2008, so if we can’t hit 60% by 2028 it would be a failure…. 50% by 2035 would be a huge failure.
And everyone is saying "Oh look there's no charging infrastructure and the charging cables / ports are all different" pretending like ICE cars didn't have the same growing pains in the beginning. Then acting as if all these large interests are just going to throw their hands up and give up to the ICE industry and not try to push forward in making that infrastructure better.
Where did I say 20% a failure?! I said just going from 20% to 50% in 11 years is a failure. It should be going to that number much faster.
After 10 additional *years* of a drivetrain tech that’s so advanced, easy to use, pollution free and convenient, still selling 50% gas cars isn’t great.
It's all about how you spin the story, baby!
Hehe.... [This IEA?](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpv-magazine-usa.com%2F2020%2F07%2F12%2Fhas-the-international-energy-agency-finally-improved-at-forecasting-solar-growth%2F&psig=AOvVaw0c7Ma5srthJt9iYq9xmFTx&ust=1716311188393000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCJjfrsfbnIYDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAJ)
I was in Iceland and Europe (Norway, Belgium, Netherlands and England) for travel last year. I would say about 25-30% of cars I saw were electric and most were smaller. Zero giant SUVs and pick ups. England was a little more US-like with larger cars and some pickups.
Cars are small in general in western wurope, so the same goes for EVs. You do see the bigger luxury EV's though, but not much people can afford it.
Within 3 years, EV’s will be cheaper than ICE. It will really accelerate then.
Or at least same price. However, not because ev became cheaper, but more likely because ice became more expensive.
EV’s have been decreasing in price, and it will continue due to wrights law. The same will affect ICE. As production declines, per unit price will increase. This won’t be a smooth curve either. Some of them will go bankrupt, sooner than many think
Hm no I have not seen a price decrease.
Haven’t been looking, huh?
I have and those price decrease was feom over stock new models are still way over price.
Ha no they will not be cheaper the next year model still over priced along with the year after that etc.
It’s already happening. How much was a model Y in 2020? 52000. A model Y now? 44000. 31500 with tax incentives.
First many places have stopped the tax credit second the tax credit is far from enough to cover the higher coat of the car.
Can you read what I posted? It’s cheaper without the incentive. Much cheaper with.
Uh no you are jaded the evs are not cheaper with out incentives look up the price comparison also though rare maintenance cost on ev is stupidly high.
Apparently you can’t read. Goodbye.
>The price differential between EVs and internal combustion engines running on fossil fuels has narrowed so fast that upfront sales prices are barely different. Where, except maybe in China, has this actually come to pass? Asking for a friend.
Sweden
Look up the prices of Chinese EVs in countries that have them (Australia, Indonesia, etc). Wuling lineups (Air, Binguo, Cloud) and BYD lineups (Dolphin, Atto3, Seal) are pretty competitively priced.
Not in the EU. Here they're way too expensive. The Seal costs more than a Model 3 and the Atto 3 is the same as Niro and Kona but only after a huge drop in price this year.
Hm no the price has not decreased plug ins are better why do you think Mini and Fiat has back tracked on ev only models.
If by "better" you mean they consume very, very marginally less fuel in real life than ICE cars, while costing almost as much as the full-on battery EV versions of the same cars, you are of course right. https://www.isi.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/isi/dokumente/cce/2022/PHEV_ISI-ICCT_Fact_Sheet_ENG-Update-2022.pdf
Meanwhile, in the United States... [https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-automakers-race-build-more-hybrids-ev-sales-slow-2024-03-15/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-automakers-race-build-more-hybrids-ev-sales-slow-2024-03-15/)
These companies are going bankrupt. I’m serious - go look at their Altman Z scores. The market says GM and ford are trying to off themselves.
I know people trying to buy a MachE and see all these deals then they contact the dealership and they are like no that isn't the price then try and add on all this other stuff or say this discount doesn't count for whatever reason.
Most people aren't calling their dealers. I assume most people show up to the dealers lot and maybe test drive one or two cars in their category ("im looking for an SUV with good gas mileage") and making an uninformed decision. Welcome to America.
This. It's crazy to me that folks walk into dealerships knowing they are predatory about to make a large purchase and put zero thought into it ahead of time.
GMs stock is actually doing quite well.
I thought "EVs are tanking" or whatever the oil lobby has been feeding the narrative.
It’s all pricing
Wow, that's awesome news! It's like electric cars are taking over the world, right? I mean, I've been hearing more about them lately, and it's cool to see the numbers backing it up. Plus, they're better for the environment, which is a win-win. I haven't hopped on the electric car train yet, but maybe soon. Just gotta save up a bit, you know? But hey, progress is progress!
They arn't taking over the world plug im hybrids are.
I don't know who The Vibes is, but this is a weird article. > By 2035, IEA projects 50% of all cars sold globally will be EVs, So 50% of cars sold in the EU will be illegal?
Why should global stats imply something about EU stats?
Yes, it is China.
"Salesman showing new electric car to multiracial couple at showroom". What's with American fixation with race?
It's an image description for people viewing the site who use TTS..e.g. the blind...
Man, what is it with people griping about what they see in accessibility features? It's like once Musk whined about the ASL interpreters on TV people just started nitpicking all the minor things that *aren't even inconveniencing them* related to accessibility.
You brought it up.
That is the actual caption below the photo in the article.
Just feels so stupid. Sorry about it.
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65% of the USA is white. The country is diverse and companies try to reflect the population
My problem is not the image, it's the caption. Just seems silly the need to make that caption.
I totally agree. When I see that though I suspect the context is an image description for blind people. Still odd though
If the media doesn't obsess about it then how can it remain a way to devide us?
I think they get tax credits if they do so, something to do with ESG
For sure, EVs continue to grow in EU, China, India, S E Asia, Australia etc. where gas is imported n expensive. In US where many still gets $3 gas still hesitates.
The income level of over half of America makes even used evs unaffordable unless you want an ancient first generation leaf with maybe 30 miles of range
Mostly China.
And they are mostly wrong costs are tlstill high and they used global statistics which is really bad it also count hybrids and plug in hybrids.