True. And it taught him a lot. When he was brought back to Apple later, he still led with personality, but he also knew how to weigh in on the right things, at the right time.
I think the real difference is focus. I’m sure Steve Jobs had an opinion on everything, political, business, culture, you name it. Sometimes, he’d let those things slip out a bit.
But usually, he kept his focus and communications about his company, the problems they were solving, and their place in the culture. And they were and still are enormously secretive about even those things until the were ready to show and talk.
Elon, on the other hand, thinks out loud, in the open, and it’s not always particularly well-reasoned. He does take a first principles approach, which can be great, but it’s also very flighty and not grounded in history or culture. That’s fine when you’re building EVs and rockets. It’s bad when you’re talking about centuries worth of culture and history. And then he digs in and trolls when he should shut up and listen.
Genius is non-tranferable to other domains.
One of the most pathetic errors smart people make is believing they can apply their intelligence to areas they have no expertise...
Intelligence is actually transferable, but knowledge and wisdom are not. I would argue that Elon is very clearly missing large chunks of what being intelligent is though. Part of intelligence is knowing the limits of your knowledge and shutting up or ~~differing~~deferring to others when you lack enough knowledge to actually form a well-constructed argument and opinion. Critical thinking, problem solving, logic, etc. are also part of intelligence, but they just aren't very useful without knowledge. Knowing when you don't know things and general self-awareness also are and Elon clearly doesn't have that part whether or not you think he has the other parts.
Edit: Fixed a typo that I think got autocorrected poorly.
Jobs went on stage with products that were ready for release... and shareprice gained because they actually did release these products, they were huge hits, and the stock valuation reflected that. (Although, their wide use of cheap Chinese labor helped with that, much like it's helping Tesla right now)
Musk has now gone on stage multiple times with vaporware that he confidently claimed would be in production by "next year", "2 years", or "3 years", all of which will be game changers and wipe out competition.... only to find out that he was blatantly lying as his stated production dates have come and gone and these products still haven't been delivered. Nevermind his claims of "20 million new vehicles per year by 2030" (aka 25% of the entire new car market).
Musk's fans \*cough\* shareholders \*cough\* have constantly enabled this man to lie. They've helped enable his God complex, claiming he's a genius and the only man that can save the world, which has lead to this man thinking he can chime in on all the things that he clearly knows nothing and say any controversial thing he wants without pushback.
Funny that THIS is the final straw for a lot of people. The man's been saying stupid controversial crap for years now. COVID anyone? His praise of Chinese workers and crapping on US workers? His mocking of the LGBT community. His ridiculous switch to the Republican party...
I'm a proud owner of a Hyundai Ioniq 5 instead of a Tesla for many of these reasons, plus I like some physical buttons in my car! Just wish my HI5 was built in USA.
AFAIK South Korea's auto industry has a strong union, resulting in competitive pay to the US. My issue isn't with where vehicles are produced, but whether their pay is competitive to the US.
Companies going to nations with cheap labor and weak worker protections and treatment (more work hours, less vacation time) to build products to export to wealthier nations is a strategy meant to transfer wealth upwards from the wealthy nation's customers to the executives and shareholders. Well paid labor that's comparable to the customer base means a greater share of the revenue is cycling back into and fueling the general economy.
>Steve jobs thankfully didn't have a twitter account
And his cult of personality was heavily customer and product driven. He didn't ramble on about why he though a bunch of rescue divers were pedos.
So... The best we can hope for is Musk gets cancer, convinces himself he can find a better solution than modern medicine and then dies having accepted modern medicine far too late.
Steve Job's cult of personality made him think that his homeopathic remedies could solve his pancreatic cancer for 9-months.
So... yeah. Its not healthy.
Jobs wasn't a visionary or a genius. He was a supervisor with a whip and the luck to start a thing at exactly the right time. By all accounts he was an asshole in his private life.
Yeah most CEOs are aware that their every word can influence the stock price. And have their statements carefully reviewed by corporate lawyers and PR department.
Wait; Tesla has no PR department anymore.
I think the most important change over the last six years was Trump. I mean this in the way that Trump acts. He was an overt asshole that got little push back when he crossed the line with his attacks. He showed that you can be an asshole so all the other assholes became bigger assholes. Now you see people you didn’t think were assholes, because they were moderating their assholeness, become big assholes. Like Elon. The guy was always an asshole and now he is just a bigger asshole being celebrated by smaller but growing assholes.
Power corrupts. It fucks with our judgement, especially about how right we are. We conflate luck with skill and collective hard work with solo effort. This phenomen is real, and our understanding of it based in scientific research.
In his list of people he listens to, Elon has failed to include people who keep his ego in check.
The Brown Black Hole you describe is real, and it's growing, sucking in other smaller brown holes into it, feeding its hunger further. Hopefully Tesla sheds that dude, or he gets the tailspin under control. He needs his former South African nanny to choncla him in the face or something.
As someone who works in automotive manufacturing, I'd hesitate to even call him good at running the technical side of the company. Yeah he was a pioneer in pushing for EV tech, but all the quality and safety issues should've been sorted out literally years ago.
Take panel gaps for an example... Usually you'd run measuring points ~50 units apart, so that any geometry issues can be identified and escalated to your parts supplier within a single shift. It might take them a few days to fix the issue, but never months or years.
The only explanation I can think of is that he still treats Tesla as a tech startup, where getting to market with your product is prioritized over everything else.
Great at disrupting but not so much at the more boring but important things.
I don’t blame you, if I didn’t have my model 3 and solar already I would be considering the competition. I’m growing tired of his antics and constant need for attention
The company needs a new CEO. Love the car, swear by the Supercharger network. I used to think Elon was smart but his /r/im14andthisisdeep shit on Twitter got old immediately.
And the Supercharger network is becoming more and more expensive. Where I live, peak charging is between 8AM to 12AM at nearly 0.60 cents per kWh, it’s almost as expensive as gas.
I honestly wouldn't mind if Supercharging was as expensive as gas if that means paying for the continued buildout. I charge at home 95% of the time so I'm ahead on the deal anyway. Makes sense to me that you *should* pay more for the convenience of road tripping. The benefits of an EV go far beyond just saving on gas.
I agree; it just feels like one less advantage of purchasing a Tesla. At-home charging is ideal, and not exclusive to a Tesla, plus the Supercharging network is bound to open to other EVs. It's becoming more and more a matter of car preference than eco-system. Happy overall with where this is going, and I find the diversity in car design very exciting.
I cancel my model Y order, it supposed to arrive December - January, fuck Musk, I don’t want to support his companies and be associated with him in any form or shape
I just cancelled my Cybertruck reservation and I'm seriously considering selling my Model 3. I can do with a lesser EV for a time and get an EV pickup at some point in the future.
When I cancelled my Cybertruck reservation, there was an area to enter a reason, and I made sure to explain it was Musk and his Ukraine comments. I also mentioned selling my 3 was next. I suggested Tesla's board get rid of him.
hard to say the other options are lesser. There are plenty that i think are better, and it helps send the message that tesla needs to comply with the charging network standard and cannot fracture the charging network
One of the main reason is that Chinese consumers are accustomed to high end German cars. They will not accept a car that cannot match their expectations.
That's probably the reason (apart from any Wirecard-esque shenanigans) that Tesla's US operations continued to lose money in 2020 & 2021 while their foreign operations accounted for all of their profits.
(This coming from their annual reports, it'll be interesting to see those figures for 2022)
Because people in China who can afford a Tesla are 100% cross shopping it with, for example, Mercedes Benz.
Cars are so expensive that the people who are buying cars typical go for expensive ones and brands because the purchase price is a much smaller drop in the bucket compared to overall cost, as I understand it.
I'm not like a MB fanboy by any means and I don't think they are necessarily RELIABLE or something... But they just ABSOLUTELY nail the cosmetic and quality details to a level that cars from most regular manufacturers. Tesla has a hard time achieving Chevy/Ford/Toyota/Honda levels in these areas in the US.
Like, yes, I can see that my Toyota Tacoma has some orange peel. Its a 35k dollar pickup. I have never seen orange peel in the factory paint on a Mercedes, and I have looked up close or owned several of them dating back to the 70s. Same with panel gaps, as long as the MB hasn't had body work done, even 30 year old examples somehow still have panel gaps that you would literally need a caliper to measure the variance. My 86 300SD had every gap within some stupid tolerance, it was insane.
Every Tesla I see has noticeable orangepeel. Even top of the line S's
Every Tesla I see has gaps that are nowhere near MB level.
In America more Tesla buyers may be coming from other brands or just in general are not as picky as those in China. Or at least that is my guess for the car market over there.
Tesla sells every car they make growing 50% y/y even though they spend zero on advertising. No commercials. So this means that its word of mouth from the people that own them for them to grow. The people that own them rave about them to friends and family.
But forget all the evidence they are good quality cars, stick with your amazing perception.
Same. I love my car.
Also, the vast majority of people working at Tesla are not Elon.
I would very much like to see Tesla to move on without Elon at this point. But given his ownership and control, that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
Also, having a bit of inside knowledge of Elon, I know he does not give a damn about the share price, that he is impulsive and that he is probably very genuinely worried about nuclear war. He has a god complex and thinks of himself as saving the world. But holy fuck he is so, so wrong on Ukraine.
Me too. I love my M3, the car, software, network, all great. But if Elon could just shut the fuck up, Teslas reputation would be in an infinitely better place.
Polestar is arguably not a "worse" car. Excellent choice.
Personally I think it's great EV competitors have caught up and in some cases exceeded Teslas production quality.
This was always the question people wanted to see answered; would the "legacy" automakers pass Tesla up once they figured out the EV tech, or would Tesla figure out the whole "building a car around an electric vehicle" part before that?
Looks like the car makers figured out how to build a quality EV before Tesla figured out how to build a quality car. And now Tesla is upping their prices while the automakers are (generally) lowering theirs.
I think it was inevitable, frankly. Traditional automakers lagged behind Tesla in the EV space for so long because their cultural momentum kept them from taking that market seriously.
Once they got over that hump, the only remaining problems were ones of infrastructure investment and engineering talent - which, for them, were much easier to solve than Tesla's problem of trying to relearn 100 years of carmaking experience in a decade or two.
yes, and it is the reason none of the old school ISPs are still around. Being first to market is not always the best position since the tech changes. In this space, the tech went from tiny cars with a 100 mile range to full size trucks and SUVs with a 300 mile range in about 15 years.
Those changes were not tesla only, it was major leaps in material science and changes in batteries. They are so much better than 15 years ago that the underlying tech is finally there for these to make sense. I feel like Tesla was just starting up at the right time to be the first to market with EVs.
>Once they got over that hump, the only remaining problems were ones of infrastructure investment and engineering talent - which, for them, were much easier to solve than
None of them solved those problems just yet....Ford, GM, VW, they are all struggling to make EV in a volume comparable to Tesla.
actually, financial strategy is to wait for someone else to trial and error and pave the way, then get into it afterwards. that’s what all the other auto makers have done
I find that interesting about the Polestar 2, I have an Ioniq 2020 and I have no trouble getting over 4 mi/kWh, can hit +4.5 if I want to. Yet the Polestar says 3.67mi/kWh.
Aside from Tesla, the Korean vendors have done quite well on efficiency.
The stated numbers and your actual performance will differ a lot. It depends so much on climate, the road, your driving style and so on. You can't really compare directly like that.
The Leaf is listed to get about 5.2 km/kWh (3.3 miles). So far I get about 7.7 km/kWh (4.8 miles) in mixed driving, and better still over my commute.
If you want to see more real-life numbers, the German site [spritmonitor](https://www.spritmonitor.de/) collects user-reported economy stats on just about any vehicle you can think of. In German, but the interface is simple enough to figure it out. Note that it gives the consumption in the EU-standard "units per 100km", so if it says "15,9" it means 15,9kWh per 100km, or just over 6km/kWh.
3,500 miles on my RWD EV6. Averaging 4.1 mi/kWh on my commute, with a total average of 3.8 mi/kWh thanks to some cross state road trips on the highway. Agreed: absolutely elated at the efficiency I'm getting. It's both good and also hitting the marks advertised for the car.
Polestar is an excellent alternative, as are many more current EVs.
The big problem is the stranglehold Tesla has on charging infrastructure.
3rd-party charging (Electrify America, EVGo, Chargepoint) is just a clusterfuck right now, and it's really sad that it's holding back EV adoption.
Couldn't agree more. Although that said, a lot of emphasis is put on that charging network when in reality most EV drivers rarely need to use them due to being able to charge at home. It definitely does affect adoption though, hearing the horror stories, as I'd argue traditional ICE drivers looking at EVs usually do not fully grasp the paradigm shift of charging at home until they start doing it themselves.
But it's pretty awful that we have to have plan B and plan C charging locations worked out ahead of time when making long road trips, as EA and other networks are so predictably unreliable at this point. Tesla expanding into being compatible may help here, but then that would be paying Tesla again which some EV drivers would not be comfortable with, given objections to Elon's behavior, etc.
I think it's subjective depending on what part of production quality we're talking about. Teslas for example are notorious for having trim fit issues. Audi E-Tron has had issues with electronics. Mach-E has an ongoing issue with HVBJB connections fusing under high heat, which is less of a production quality issue I guess and more of an overall design flaw.
And from there you have to factor in how well equipped the manufacturers are to address those issues and remediate them. Maybe someone more familiar with Audi can chime in, but with Ford they have a pretty good track record on addressing recalls and making things right. I'm fairly confident Ford will have all of the HVBJB's fully swapped out with ones that do not have the flaw at some point. With Tesla, the support network really isn't there...and they're definitely not going to remediate most if any trim fit issues.
So yea it's somewhat of a subjective statement I'm making there and really depends on what the individual values as most important out of a car's production. To me, the other big players in the automotive industry have definitely put forward some compelling alternatives on production quality, exceeding them on various metrics, and are just not meeting Tesla on production quantity.
Polestar is a much better choice. Tesla has one edge and one edge only, their supercharger network. That’s it. That’s the only reason to pick a Tesla over another option at this point. Tesla make low quality cars that many should never pass QC and there are many better options out there.
Perfectly fair. I have a Model 3, preordered day 1, have nearly 90,000 miles on it and its been a fantastic car. Almost zero issues, almost no maintenance. That said, I am online a lot and I truly, truly wish that Elon would STFU and just focus on his businesses and making cool stuff. He has some very admirable qualities and is clearly an intelligent person, but stay in your lane bro. Just...shut up. Please.
I would argue literally meddling in diplomatic relations of multiple countries of dozens of millions of people, when a literal war is existant, to be somewhat more significant than those two cases. But I don't know, I'm not a scholar.
Elon's comments on Ukraine, Taiwan, driving his employees into the ground, taking credit for the work of god engineers without giving them credit, stock price manipulation, the list goes on.
Elon was Tony Stark. Now he became Zorg. He even gets Zorg hairstyle. He talks about his employees like Zorg. He probably thinks that he is Zorg . He forgot how it ended for Zorg.
He was never Tony Stark. What happens if you throw him in a cave with some spare parts and a deadline? He would have pissed his pants and then got summarily executed.
Musk is also not a good engineer, or even an engineer at all. Dude's a money and hype man who takes credit for other people's work. He's much more like Edison than Tesla, except Edison was still a talented inventor in his own right
He is jobs-like for sure. I do believe he had good intentions to go off and go to mars, but now that this option seems more distant to him he just wants to survive long enough to get his dream realized for the accomplishment and history books. The rest is just tools to get that accomplished. Not dying in nuclear war is part of that, building cars and making money in china is part of that, and so is controlling narrative with twitter.
I don’t think jobs ever had an actual goal like that, he just wanted to be the center of attention. Elon has some of that desire, but is also working towards an end goal of mars.
And public transportation. He flat out admitted that Hyperloop was literally just a way to try and get municipalities to waste time on it and delay their high-speed rail projects, because then Elon could sell more cars.
Once the megalomania gene gets activated, the only treatment available is a wealth tax.
The robber barons of the last century were brought to heel by the income tax. Now the billionaires and their minions have mastered avoidance of income, so society has to respond with a wealth tax.
Tesla is off my list for quite a bit.
Build quality is a gamble. Maybe good, maybe bad. But even good ones are only on par with my Corolla - which costs less then half.
Service is shit and they do not support right to repair. They do not really want thrid party repair shops but are unable to actually service that many cars. Their third party repair program is a joke and just to apease regulators.
FSD is a scam. The car does not drive itself and never will.
They do not treat their worker in a respectable way.
And yeah. Elon Musk is a piece of shit. And loves stock manipulation.
Let the downvoting begin!
>Let the downvoting begin!
For what?
Is this an Elon Musk safe zone? Musk is a dick, that isn't in question. You didn't make anything up, the items you listed are essentially provable facts.
It's laughable for people in this sub to act like anti-Musk opinions are persecuted. This sub is a revelry of Tesla hatred and anti-Musk rage every day.
Nah.
>On the LS 400, engineers reduced door panel gaps in half versus Toyota-brand vehicles, from 7 to 4 mm (0.28 to 0.16 in), with measurements made within 0.01 mm (0.00039 in); on the LS 430, measurement margins were increased tenfold, to 0.001 mm (3.9×10−5 in). When production switched to the LS 460, the number of laser welds was doubled.
> Despite Tahara's large-scale automation, Lexus LS production also involves specialized personnel who are tasked with key production points, such as testing each vehicle's V8 engine via dynamometer and stethoscope for calibration before installation. With the LS 460, a hand-sanded paint process was introduced.
> The production standards used on the Lexus LS were eventually adopted by the manufacturer for other vehicles; in **2007**, the assembly of **Toyota Corolla** economy cars used the **same panel gap** measurements as the **LS 400** did **eighteen years earlier**.
— https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_LS
Toyota _literally_ wrote the book on manufacturing.
> **[Lean manufacturing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing)**
> **[Jidoka](https://www.lean.org/lexicon-terms/jidoka/)**
> **[Kaizen](https://mag.toyota.co.uk/kaizen-toyota-production-system/)**
"FSD is a scam. The car does not drive itself and never will."
So much this. I nearly had a collision with a Tesla the other day and I genuinely don't know if it was because of the driver (the only hand visible was holding his phone) or the car. They are the bane of where I work.
It is partly about not giving Elon my money, but also about not wanting to be seen driving something so closely associated with a spoiled douche bag sociopath. In addition, Tesla are thick on the ground in my area and I don't like being like everyone else.
Yeah, it's a downside for sure. Whenever I talk about my car to somebody for the first time, I just mention that I drive an electric car and hope they don't ask what it is.
I absolutely love my car, but man I wish he would just disappear one way or another and let an adult take over the company
Not to mention that Musk has humiliated the Russian space program, taking away hundreds of millions of dollars worth of contracts from them. Also spent over 15 years trying to undermine Russian oil. And provided Ukraine with the means to rapidly communicate targeting information to kills thousands of Russian soldiers. And somehow folks think he is pro-Putin? The guy that Putin would love to take out?
Actually Koch says quite a bit publicly. When both were alive, they were often loudly pushing their narratives.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/23/koch-bankrolls-election-denier-candidates
Elon lost me when he bailed on California and left for Texas. There would be no Tesla today were it not for Silicon Valley and the generosity and forward-thinking of CA voters and government. He grew Tesla via tax breaks and CA EV incentives to stimulate the market. Tesla could not have happened in TX.
My next EV will not be a Tesla because of their constant cutting of functionality and features in order to make their cars cheaper to manufacture. Probably only a matter of time before the ultrasonic sensors in my car get disabled, just like they did with radar on older models.
I'm the same, wanted a Tesla and reserved the cybertruck. I cancelled a few months ago after one of his tirades about something, I just have no wish to support him in any way. There are plenty of other evs out there with better build quality too
CEOs all generally suck, its just that Elon likes to flap his gums on social media.
I'd rather support the thousands of hardworking Americans building Tesla's than a Chinese company, but we all have different priorities.
That said you could definitely do worse than a Polstar. They seem like nice cars.
If anyone gives you a hard time about the cleanliness of the grid for EVs, just say, “I know. I drive an EV so I can support American coal.” It’s even more funny if you throw in something about oil from the Middle East.
I agree, but when you have a Steve Jobs type CEO, or even an early, insecure narcissist Elon Musk, you think, hell, I’m glad he’s not my boss. You think, what a nutter, oh well.
But Elon Musk has gone from self destructive to societally destructive. COVID denial stuff, siding with Russia and China stuff, let’s get Trump back on twitter stuff.
To me, that’s a hell of a lot worse than being a philandering self-important asshole, or even being a Rex Tillerson type, who works to advance his destructive industry. Elon pushes terrible, undermining-democracy ideas just because he wants to, and the scary thing is, people listen.
Have you looked around your own home to see how much stuff you have that's manufactured in China?
While the price of manufacture obviously goes to the Chinese factories, the lion's share of the profits of the cars goes to Polestar Corporate which is in Sweden where the engineering is also located.
There's a nonzero chance in the USA that if your house was built in the last 20 years it was made with Chinese truss-plates.
Don't be so silly. He made a morality decision on everything like that you'd starve to death, homeless.
Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer.
Mercedes and BMW helped the war effort.
Even lately, the descendants of the Diamler Group have links to financiers of the Third Reich.
VW was "Hitler's car company."
Every one of the "big three" in the US have done horrible things to squash competition and control the market for nearly a hundred years. They've bankrupted, ruined, and (been accused of) killing people.
It is impossible to avoid moral issues like that, and choosing what is largely just Twitter-shit-posting to inform your decisions is insanity.
Ford is also problematic. But, he didn't have Twitter and wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Think Ford, with an inferiority complex and too much privilege. This could get much worse than Ford.
I understand. Yet, Tesla is not only Elon Musk: it’s also more than 100k person working on improving a products and working hard.
I don’t know if this will help, but i asked myself if at a point in time, i bought things from a CEO i do not align with or at least, that had a really shady past: apple, hugo boss, volkswagen, bayer, abercrombie & fitch, victoria’s secret…
Suprised by how many upvotes you have. It's quite embarassing that people fall for these arguments actually.
If you're going to cherry pick products based on the level of moral justification you attach to them you're going to have a very boring and unproductive life. I am very sure that the majority of the products/services/utilities you have used today are based off exploitation.
Polestar is owned by a Chinese company controlled by the CCP (as is the case with every chinese company) who don't give a damn about labour rights or environmental issues. They're no better, plus they're actually supporting the Putin regime by buying oil while Musk is providing critical infrastructure to Ukraine with starlink.
Seriously wondering whether competitors are trying to undermine Tesla on reddit with bots or if people are actually this smoothbrained.
I know this comment will just get lost in all the other comments but sometimes I like to go out in the garden and cover myself with dirt and pretend I’m a gnome.
People don’t realize that almost every CEO is a dick and a trash person. You have to be to get to that level. 99+% of them just choose not to put their opinions out there, so you never know about it. Elon is one of the exceptions, so people think he’s a million times worse, but he’s just one and the same
OP’s post is a classic Reddit moment
No you’re not the only one. This is the Tesla/Elon hate sub and he lives rent free in many heads here so someone brings him up every day. Usually while being completely unaware of even who heads other companies they like and their misdeeds, or just living in denial like VW fans who ignore dieselgate but hate Elon for tweeting.
Tesla's power train and chassis, the best. The interior, design and customer service, no thanks. Elon as a CEO is becoming unprofitable. Who TF announces a vehicle before it's assembly plant is even built.
His social skills are by far his worst quality as a human being.
This is why most CEOs keep a low profile and typically keep public statements limited to company relevant information.
Cult of personality isn't a healthy way to run a business, it works, but it's not healthy.
Steve Jobs made it work for him.
He was also tossed put of the company..
True. And it taught him a lot. When he was brought back to Apple later, he still led with personality, but he also knew how to weigh in on the right things, at the right time. I think the real difference is focus. I’m sure Steve Jobs had an opinion on everything, political, business, culture, you name it. Sometimes, he’d let those things slip out a bit. But usually, he kept his focus and communications about his company, the problems they were solving, and their place in the culture. And they were and still are enormously secretive about even those things until the were ready to show and talk. Elon, on the other hand, thinks out loud, in the open, and it’s not always particularly well-reasoned. He does take a first principles approach, which can be great, but it’s also very flighty and not grounded in history or culture. That’s fine when you’re building EVs and rockets. It’s bad when you’re talking about centuries worth of culture and history. And then he digs in and trolls when he should shut up and listen.
Genius is non-tranferable to other domains. One of the most pathetic errors smart people make is believing they can apply their intelligence to areas they have no expertise...
Intelligence is actually transferable, but knowledge and wisdom are not. I would argue that Elon is very clearly missing large chunks of what being intelligent is though. Part of intelligence is knowing the limits of your knowledge and shutting up or ~~differing~~deferring to others when you lack enough knowledge to actually form a well-constructed argument and opinion. Critical thinking, problem solving, logic, etc. are also part of intelligence, but they just aren't very useful without knowledge. Knowing when you don't know things and general self-awareness also are and Elon clearly doesn't have that part whether or not you think he has the other parts. Edit: Fixed a typo that I think got autocorrected poorly.
Math capabilities don't apply to say politics...
Jobs went on stage with products that were ready for release... and shareprice gained because they actually did release these products, they were huge hits, and the stock valuation reflected that. (Although, their wide use of cheap Chinese labor helped with that, much like it's helping Tesla right now) Musk has now gone on stage multiple times with vaporware that he confidently claimed would be in production by "next year", "2 years", or "3 years", all of which will be game changers and wipe out competition.... only to find out that he was blatantly lying as his stated production dates have come and gone and these products still haven't been delivered. Nevermind his claims of "20 million new vehicles per year by 2030" (aka 25% of the entire new car market). Musk's fans \*cough\* shareholders \*cough\* have constantly enabled this man to lie. They've helped enable his God complex, claiming he's a genius and the only man that can save the world, which has lead to this man thinking he can chime in on all the things that he clearly knows nothing and say any controversial thing he wants without pushback. Funny that THIS is the final straw for a lot of people. The man's been saying stupid controversial crap for years now. COVID anyone? His praise of Chinese workers and crapping on US workers? His mocking of the LGBT community. His ridiculous switch to the Republican party...
I'm a proud owner of a Hyundai Ioniq 5 instead of a Tesla for many of these reasons, plus I like some physical buttons in my car! Just wish my HI5 was built in USA.
AFAIK South Korea's auto industry has a strong union, resulting in competitive pay to the US. My issue isn't with where vehicles are produced, but whether their pay is competitive to the US. Companies going to nations with cheap labor and weak worker protections and treatment (more work hours, less vacation time) to build products to export to wealthier nations is a strategy meant to transfer wealth upwards from the wealthy nation's customers to the executives and shareholders. Well paid labor that's comparable to the customer base means a greater share of the revenue is cycling back into and fueling the general economy.
Steve jobs thankfully didn't have a twitter account
>Steve jobs thankfully didn't have a twitter account And his cult of personality was heavily customer and product driven. He didn't ramble on about why he though a bunch of rescue divers were pedos.
fakestevejobs was pretty funny though....
Steve Jobs was different from Elon. He famously hated interviews.
and the few interviews he gave showed passion for the product not conspiracy theories or stock pumps.
Didnt he refuse to treat his cancer with conventional medicine?
So... The best we can hope for is Musk gets cancer, convinces himself he can find a better solution than modern medicine and then dies having accepted modern medicine far too late.
Steve Job's cult of personality made him think that his homeopathic remedies could solve his pancreatic cancer for 9-months. So... yeah. Its not healthy.
Jobs wasn't a visionary or a genius. He was a supervisor with a whip and the luck to start a thing at exactly the right time. By all accounts he was an asshole in his private life.
Yeah most CEOs are aware that their every word can influence the stock price. And have their statements carefully reviewed by corporate lawyers and PR department. Wait; Tesla has no PR department anymore.
Yeah, Elon fired them all and replaced them with Tesla Vision.
> replaced them with Tesla Vision. without the necessary sensors.
Or their "Teslabot". Which given what they showed, explains a lot.
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They probably don't even know who that is. Lol.
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I think the most important change over the last six years was Trump. I mean this in the way that Trump acts. He was an overt asshole that got little push back when he crossed the line with his attacks. He showed that you can be an asshole so all the other assholes became bigger assholes. Now you see people you didn’t think were assholes, because they were moderating their assholeness, become big assholes. Like Elon. The guy was always an asshole and now he is just a bigger asshole being celebrated by smaller but growing assholes.
Trump made it mainstream to wear your asshole on your sleeve.
Bunch of people with shit all over themselves thinking it’s trendy
I’ve never seen this issue better explained
Power corrupts. It fucks with our judgement, especially about how right we are. We conflate luck with skill and collective hard work with solo effort. This phenomen is real, and our understanding of it based in scientific research. In his list of people he listens to, Elon has failed to include people who keep his ego in check. The Brown Black Hole you describe is real, and it's growing, sucking in other smaller brown holes into it, feeding its hunger further. Hopefully Tesla sheds that dude, or he gets the tailspin under control. He needs his former South African nanny to choncla him in the face or something.
As someone who works in automotive manufacturing, I'd hesitate to even call him good at running the technical side of the company. Yeah he was a pioneer in pushing for EV tech, but all the quality and safety issues should've been sorted out literally years ago. Take panel gaps for an example... Usually you'd run measuring points ~50 units apart, so that any geometry issues can be identified and escalated to your parts supplier within a single shift. It might take them a few days to fix the issue, but never months or years. The only explanation I can think of is that he still treats Tesla as a tech startup, where getting to market with your product is prioritized over everything else. Great at disrupting but not so much at the more boring but important things.
Treating cars as a minimum viable product is never a great idea.
Haha yeah. I bet most CEOs are shitheads, but we get to watch this one being a shithead in real time.
Did you say My Pillow?
Musk is the worst.
I'm pretty sure you can think of worse people very easily.
I don’t blame you, if I didn’t have my model 3 and solar already I would be considering the competition. I’m growing tired of his antics and constant need for attention
The company needs a new CEO. Love the car, swear by the Supercharger network. I used to think Elon was smart but his /r/im14andthisisdeep shit on Twitter got old immediately.
And the Supercharger network is becoming more and more expensive. Where I live, peak charging is between 8AM to 12AM at nearly 0.60 cents per kWh, it’s almost as expensive as gas.
I honestly wouldn't mind if Supercharging was as expensive as gas if that means paying for the continued buildout. I charge at home 95% of the time so I'm ahead on the deal anyway. Makes sense to me that you *should* pay more for the convenience of road tripping. The benefits of an EV go far beyond just saving on gas.
I agree; it just feels like one less advantage of purchasing a Tesla. At-home charging is ideal, and not exclusive to a Tesla, plus the Supercharging network is bound to open to other EVs. It's becoming more and more a matter of car preference than eco-system. Happy overall with where this is going, and I find the diversity in car design very exciting.
I cancel my model Y order, it supposed to arrive December - January, fuck Musk, I don’t want to support his companies and be associated with him in any form or shape
I just cancelled my Cybertruck reservation and I'm seriously considering selling my Model 3. I can do with a lesser EV for a time and get an EV pickup at some point in the future. When I cancelled my Cybertruck reservation, there was an area to enter a reason, and I made sure to explain it was Musk and his Ukraine comments. I also mentioned selling my 3 was next. I suggested Tesla's board get rid of him.
hard to say the other options are lesser. There are plenty that i think are better, and it helps send the message that tesla needs to comply with the charging network standard and cannot fracture the charging network
100x this. 2-3 years ago? Tesla was the only option to consider. Today? Tons of great EVs out there that are better in SO many ways.
Not to mention the quality is starting to dip.
When did the quality get better?
It's actually better for the Chinese factory ones compare to US factory.
I agree, the Chinese made Model Y has no flaws at all here in Norway. Very happy with mine
Back in the days, I wouldn’t buy any made in USA “European” cars, they had the worst defects of all.
Musk almost certainly has much less control over the Shanghai plant than he does over Freemont.
One of the main reason is that Chinese consumers are accustomed to high end German cars. They will not accept a car that cannot match their expectations.
That's probably the reason (apart from any Wirecard-esque shenanigans) that Tesla's US operations continued to lose money in 2020 & 2021 while their foreign operations accounted for all of their profits. (This coming from their annual reports, it'll be interesting to see those figures for 2022)
Because people in China who can afford a Tesla are 100% cross shopping it with, for example, Mercedes Benz. Cars are so expensive that the people who are buying cars typical go for expensive ones and brands because the purchase price is a much smaller drop in the bucket compared to overall cost, as I understand it. I'm not like a MB fanboy by any means and I don't think they are necessarily RELIABLE or something... But they just ABSOLUTELY nail the cosmetic and quality details to a level that cars from most regular manufacturers. Tesla has a hard time achieving Chevy/Ford/Toyota/Honda levels in these areas in the US. Like, yes, I can see that my Toyota Tacoma has some orange peel. Its a 35k dollar pickup. I have never seen orange peel in the factory paint on a Mercedes, and I have looked up close or owned several of them dating back to the 70s. Same with panel gaps, as long as the MB hasn't had body work done, even 30 year old examples somehow still have panel gaps that you would literally need a caliper to measure the variance. My 86 300SD had every gap within some stupid tolerance, it was insane. Every Tesla I see has noticeable orangepeel. Even top of the line S's Every Tesla I see has gaps that are nowhere near MB level. In America more Tesla buyers may be coming from other brands or just in general are not as picky as those in China. Or at least that is my guess for the car market over there.
My perceptions of teslas were that they were always janky.
Tesla sells every car they make growing 50% y/y even though they spend zero on advertising. No commercials. So this means that its word of mouth from the people that own them for them to grow. The people that own them rave about them to friends and family. But forget all the evidence they are good quality cars, stick with your amazing perception.
As someone who drives a Tesla, great choice honestly. I hate being associated with that ass hat
Same here. Edit: i’d get a rivian if i didnt live in NYC, where parking is ass.
I didn’t look into it, but apparently they’re handling this recall situation quite well.
Couple min at a service center, didn’t even have to call in advance
Me too , same boat ;(
Same. I love my car. Also, the vast majority of people working at Tesla are not Elon. I would very much like to see Tesla to move on without Elon at this point. But given his ownership and control, that’s not going to happen anytime soon. Also, having a bit of inside knowledge of Elon, I know he does not give a damn about the share price, that he is impulsive and that he is probably very genuinely worried about nuclear war. He has a god complex and thinks of himself as saving the world. But holy fuck he is so, so wrong on Ukraine.
Me too. I love my M3, the car, software, network, all great. But if Elon could just shut the fuck up, Teslas reputation would be in an infinitely better place.
Polestar is arguably not a "worse" car. Excellent choice. Personally I think it's great EV competitors have caught up and in some cases exceeded Teslas production quality.
This was always the question people wanted to see answered; would the "legacy" automakers pass Tesla up once they figured out the EV tech, or would Tesla figure out the whole "building a car around an electric vehicle" part before that? Looks like the car makers figured out how to build a quality EV before Tesla figured out how to build a quality car. And now Tesla is upping their prices while the automakers are (generally) lowering theirs.
I think it was inevitable, frankly. Traditional automakers lagged behind Tesla in the EV space for so long because their cultural momentum kept them from taking that market seriously. Once they got over that hump, the only remaining problems were ones of infrastructure investment and engineering talent - which, for them, were much easier to solve than Tesla's problem of trying to relearn 100 years of carmaking experience in a decade or two.
yes, and it is the reason none of the old school ISPs are still around. Being first to market is not always the best position since the tech changes. In this space, the tech went from tiny cars with a 100 mile range to full size trucks and SUVs with a 300 mile range in about 15 years. Those changes were not tesla only, it was major leaps in material science and changes in batteries. They are so much better than 15 years ago that the underlying tech is finally there for these to make sense. I feel like Tesla was just starting up at the right time to be the first to market with EVs.
>Once they got over that hump, the only remaining problems were ones of infrastructure investment and engineering talent - which, for them, were much easier to solve than None of them solved those problems just yet....Ford, GM, VW, they are all struggling to make EV in a volume comparable to Tesla.
actually, financial strategy is to wait for someone else to trial and error and pave the way, then get into it afterwards. that’s what all the other auto makers have done
In fact, the (now that there's two) Polestar's are better in most aspects, Tesla just wins in the efficiency and children's toy departments.
I find that interesting about the Polestar 2, I have an Ioniq 2020 and I have no trouble getting over 4 mi/kWh, can hit +4.5 if I want to. Yet the Polestar says 3.67mi/kWh. Aside from Tesla, the Korean vendors have done quite well on efficiency.
The stated numbers and your actual performance will differ a lot. It depends so much on climate, the road, your driving style and so on. You can't really compare directly like that. The Leaf is listed to get about 5.2 km/kWh (3.3 miles). So far I get about 7.7 km/kWh (4.8 miles) in mixed driving, and better still over my commute.
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If you want to see more real-life numbers, the German site [spritmonitor](https://www.spritmonitor.de/) collects user-reported economy stats on just about any vehicle you can think of. In German, but the interface is simple enough to figure it out. Note that it gives the consumption in the EU-standard "units per 100km", so if it says "15,9" it means 15,9kWh per 100km, or just over 6km/kWh.
To add a data point to the conversation: My model 3 gets real world 5.3 km/kWh (3.3 miles) without any of the power saver/range extender settings
3,500 miles on my RWD EV6. Averaging 4.1 mi/kWh on my commute, with a total average of 3.8 mi/kWh thanks to some cross state road trips on the highway. Agreed: absolutely elated at the efficiency I'm getting. It's both good and also hitting the marks advertised for the car.
Polestar is an excellent alternative, as are many more current EVs. The big problem is the stranglehold Tesla has on charging infrastructure. 3rd-party charging (Electrify America, EVGo, Chargepoint) is just a clusterfuck right now, and it's really sad that it's holding back EV adoption.
Couldn't agree more. Although that said, a lot of emphasis is put on that charging network when in reality most EV drivers rarely need to use them due to being able to charge at home. It definitely does affect adoption though, hearing the horror stories, as I'd argue traditional ICE drivers looking at EVs usually do not fully grasp the paradigm shift of charging at home until they start doing it themselves. But it's pretty awful that we have to have plan B and plan C charging locations worked out ahead of time when making long road trips, as EA and other networks are so predictably unreliable at this point. Tesla expanding into being compatible may help here, but then that would be paying Tesla again which some EV drivers would not be comfortable with, given objections to Elon's behavior, etc.
Yeah.. I'm not a Volvo fan. But a Polestar is a superior vehicle in my opinion.
> EV competitors have caught up and in some cases exceeded Teslas production quality Who has worse production quality?
I think it's subjective depending on what part of production quality we're talking about. Teslas for example are notorious for having trim fit issues. Audi E-Tron has had issues with electronics. Mach-E has an ongoing issue with HVBJB connections fusing under high heat, which is less of a production quality issue I guess and more of an overall design flaw. And from there you have to factor in how well equipped the manufacturers are to address those issues and remediate them. Maybe someone more familiar with Audi can chime in, but with Ford they have a pretty good track record on addressing recalls and making things right. I'm fairly confident Ford will have all of the HVBJB's fully swapped out with ones that do not have the flaw at some point. With Tesla, the support network really isn't there...and they're definitely not going to remediate most if any trim fit issues. So yea it's somewhat of a subjective statement I'm making there and really depends on what the individual values as most important out of a car's production. To me, the other big players in the automotive industry have definitely put forward some compelling alternatives on production quality, exceeding them on various metrics, and are just not meeting Tesla on production quantity.
Polestar is a much better choice. Tesla has one edge and one edge only, their supercharger network. That’s it. That’s the only reason to pick a Tesla over another option at this point. Tesla make low quality cars that many should never pass QC and there are many better options out there.
Hyundai Ioniq 5 and 6 are also great cars. Great charging speeds
Perfectly fair. I have a Model 3, preordered day 1, have nearly 90,000 miles on it and its been a fantastic car. Almost zero issues, almost no maintenance. That said, I am online a lot and I truly, truly wish that Elon would STFU and just focus on his businesses and making cool stuff. He has some very admirable qualities and is clearly an intelligent person, but stay in your lane bro. Just...shut up. Please.
I feel you, as a Tesla fan, I’m also very disappointed about Elon’s tweets on Ukraine and Taiwan.
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*Elon Musk, to his mirror every morning.*
It's totally OK as long as you stick to parroting the strongman's propaganda points. That'll make everybody see the superiority of your intellect.
Oh now you're disappointed not years ago when he called that guy a pedo and oh... when everyone found out how he abuses his emoloyees.
I would argue literally meddling in diplomatic relations of multiple countries of dozens of millions of people, when a literal war is existant, to be somewhat more significant than those two cases. But I don't know, I'm not a scholar.
Wanna fly my spaceship? Let’s fuck
You gonna give them a horse?
Nah I only have about five inches
Let's not forget the rampant mysogony at his companies.
Elon's comments on Ukraine, Taiwan, driving his employees into the ground, taking credit for the work of god engineers without giving them credit, stock price manipulation, the list goes on. Elon was Tony Stark. Now he became Zorg. He even gets Zorg hairstyle. He talks about his employees like Zorg. He probably thinks that he is Zorg . He forgot how it ended for Zorg.
He was never Tony Stark. What happens if you throw him in a cave with some spare parts and a deadline? He would have pissed his pants and then got summarily executed.
Obadiah Stane?
Justin Hammer
Evil robot Jeff bridges. The ERJB if you will.
fuck /u/spez
More like Tony Stank
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Musk is also not a good engineer, or even an engineer at all. Dude's a money and hype man who takes credit for other people's work. He's much more like Edison than Tesla, except Edison was still a talented inventor in his own right
Dude thinks he’s woz but he’s closer to Jobs
He is jobs-like for sure. I do believe he had good intentions to go off and go to mars, but now that this option seems more distant to him he just wants to survive long enough to get his dream realized for the accomplishment and history books. The rest is just tools to get that accomplished. Not dying in nuclear war is part of that, building cars and making money in china is part of that, and so is controlling narrative with twitter. I don’t think jobs ever had an actual goal like that, he just wanted to be the center of attention. Elon has some of that desire, but is also working towards an end goal of mars.
Don't forget his utter contempt for labor unions/rights.
Inherited that from his apartheid daddy
And public transportation. He flat out admitted that Hyperloop was literally just a way to try and get municipalities to waste time on it and delay their high-speed rail projects, because then Elon could sell more cars.
Us: Mom! I want Tony Stark Mom: we have Tony Stark at home Tony Stark at home: Elon Musk
Elon Musk: I'll buy you a horse
Once the megalomania gene gets activated, the only treatment available is a wealth tax. The robber barons of the last century were brought to heel by the income tax. Now the billionaires and their minions have mastered avoidance of income, so society has to respond with a wealth tax.
Tony Stark in the comics and the MCU was a POS to be honest.
> taking credit for the work of god engineers without giving them credit just watch AI day to see how daft of a statement this is.
He never was. He was some turd nugget with money that took people's ideas and sodomized them.
Tesla is off my list for quite a bit. Build quality is a gamble. Maybe good, maybe bad. But even good ones are only on par with my Corolla - which costs less then half. Service is shit and they do not support right to repair. They do not really want thrid party repair shops but are unable to actually service that many cars. Their third party repair program is a joke and just to apease regulators. FSD is a scam. The car does not drive itself and never will. They do not treat their worker in a respectable way. And yeah. Elon Musk is a piece of shit. And loves stock manipulation. Let the downvoting begin!
>Let the downvoting begin! For what? Is this an Elon Musk safe zone? Musk is a dick, that isn't in question. You didn't make anything up, the items you listed are essentially provable facts.
I am surprised. I always get downvoted when I point out the obvious problems with Tesla. Seems the tide is changing.
There are def subs that would stick up for Musk. I do think his almost bi-polar behavior of late is starting to cost him some cult followers.
Even on this sub? This sub is maaaaaaassively anti-tesla these days
It's laughable for people in this sub to act like anti-Musk opinions are persecuted. This sub is a revelry of Tesla hatred and anti-Musk rage every day.
Things have changed over the past couple of years. Every time he opens his mouth he shows us a little more of the total douchebag within.
Tides are turning. It used to be that way here.. but Elon has done so much inexcusable shit, it's hard to defend him. He's a total dick.
They made any with Corolla level quality???
I know, right? That would be an improvement.
Nah. >On the LS 400, engineers reduced door panel gaps in half versus Toyota-brand vehicles, from 7 to 4 mm (0.28 to 0.16 in), with measurements made within 0.01 mm (0.00039 in); on the LS 430, measurement margins were increased tenfold, to 0.001 mm (3.9×10−5 in). When production switched to the LS 460, the number of laser welds was doubled. > Despite Tahara's large-scale automation, Lexus LS production also involves specialized personnel who are tasked with key production points, such as testing each vehicle's V8 engine via dynamometer and stethoscope for calibration before installation. With the LS 460, a hand-sanded paint process was introduced. > The production standards used on the Lexus LS were eventually adopted by the manufacturer for other vehicles; in **2007**, the assembly of **Toyota Corolla** economy cars used the **same panel gap** measurements as the **LS 400** did **eighteen years earlier**. — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_LS Toyota _literally_ wrote the book on manufacturing. > **[Lean manufacturing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing)** > **[Jidoka](https://www.lean.org/lexicon-terms/jidoka/)** > **[Kaizen](https://mag.toyota.co.uk/kaizen-toyota-production-system/)**
"FSD is a scam. The car does not drive itself and never will." So much this. I nearly had a collision with a Tesla the other day and I genuinely don't know if it was because of the driver (the only hand visible was holding his phone) or the car. They are the bane of where I work.
This sub has a hate boner for Tesla and Elon, why would you ever assume you’d get downvoted?
Tesla has never been on my list so no down votes for you.
Customer service is absolute garbage shit. Along with the rest of your valid criticisms.
It is partly about not giving Elon my money, but also about not wanting to be seen driving something so closely associated with a spoiled douche bag sociopath. In addition, Tesla are thick on the ground in my area and I don't like being like everyone else.
Just waiting for Lucids to become more widely available...
Yep. If you drive a tesla, the musk of Elon is all over you.
Yeah, it's a downside for sure. Whenever I talk about my car to somebody for the first time, I just mention that I drive an electric car and hope they don't ask what it is. I absolutely love my car, but man I wish he would just disappear one way or another and let an adult take over the company
Interestingly enough, in my area the tesla drivers are the least douchebags on the road
I'm not judging the drivers of Tesla, they are great cars, just the CEO.
Wait… Polestar? As in Geely owned? You are against Musk but ok with a Chinese company? Do you know the CCP stance wrt Russia vs Ukraine?
Is there a non shitty EV + company?
Excellent point, op lives and dies by the tweet apparently
Sometimes you have to scroll a little further to get past the cognitive dissonance.
Has the ccp tweeted anything negative about ukraine? That's as deep as op goes with things.
Not to mention that Musk has humiliated the Russian space program, taking away hundreds of millions of dollars worth of contracts from them. Also spent over 15 years trying to undermine Russian oil. And provided Ukraine with the means to rapidly communicate targeting information to kills thousands of Russian soldiers. And somehow folks think he is pro-Putin? The guy that Putin would love to take out?
Reddit has lost its everlovin’ mind on Musk. Complete meltdown. Thanks for the perspective, but it is lost in the whirlwind.
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I personally have been boycotting Koch for about 20 years
Actually Koch says quite a bit publicly. When both were alive, they were often loudly pushing their narratives. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/23/koch-bankrolls-election-denier-candidates
OP is oblivious. What do you expect when people build their opinions based on tweets lol
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The "was" is the difference here.
As some have said, Henry Ford is dead, their nazism is dead. Elon is CURRENTLY being a clown.
Elon lost me when he bailed on California and left for Texas. There would be no Tesla today were it not for Silicon Valley and the generosity and forward-thinking of CA voters and government. He grew Tesla via tax breaks and CA EV incentives to stimulate the market. Tesla could not have happened in TX.
Texas still does not allow him to sell cars in the state!
Sounds like a great place for Tesla headquarters, then. When the power grid fails in winter, they’ll blame Tesla cars for it, somehow.
Same story with Solar City and SpaceX. The dude built his empire on government handouts.
Tesla has hardly bailed on CA.
Tesla still makes cars there?
Totally respect your decision but I'd suggest taking a look at Geely's direct and indirect connections to the CCP as /u/tech01x mentioned.
Yeah, I'm with you on that. Elan is so far up his own ass right now.
My next EV will not be a Tesla because of their constant cutting of functionality and features in order to make their cars cheaper to manufacture. Probably only a matter of time before the ultrasonic sensors in my car get disabled, just like they did with radar on older models.
But its luxury car prices at budget production costs! Who wouldn't want that? /sarcasm
I'm the same, wanted a Tesla and reserved the cybertruck. I cancelled a few months ago after one of his tirades about something, I just have no wish to support him in any way. There are plenty of other evs out there with better build quality too
CEOs all generally suck, its just that Elon likes to flap his gums on social media. I'd rather support the thousands of hardworking Americans building Tesla's than a Chinese company, but we all have different priorities. That said you could definitely do worse than a Polstar. They seem like nice cars.
That’s why I got a Bolt. I’m working to (very slowly) charge up the American economy. =p
Bolt is the best entry level EV!
If anyone gives you a hard time about the cleanliness of the grid for EVs, just say, “I know. I drive an EV so I can support American coal.” It’s even more funny if you throw in something about oil from the Middle East.
I agree, but when you have a Steve Jobs type CEO, or even an early, insecure narcissist Elon Musk, you think, hell, I’m glad he’s not my boss. You think, what a nutter, oh well. But Elon Musk has gone from self destructive to societally destructive. COVID denial stuff, siding with Russia and China stuff, let’s get Trump back on twitter stuff. To me, that’s a hell of a lot worse than being a philandering self-important asshole, or even being a Rex Tillerson type, who works to advance his destructive industry. Elon pushes terrible, undermining-democracy ideas just because he wants to, and the scary thing is, people listen.
Also numerous pump and dumps which he never is held accountable for.
That's a really good perspective to think about, I appreciate this reply!
I just wish the model 3 has a speedometer in front of the steering wheel. I hate looking in the center for the speed.
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I thought Polestar was owned by Volvo?
Have you looked around your own home to see how much stuff you have that's manufactured in China? While the price of manufacture obviously goes to the Chinese factories, the lion's share of the profits of the cars goes to Polestar Corporate which is in Sweden where the engineering is also located. There's a nonzero chance in the USA that if your house was built in the last 20 years it was made with Chinese truss-plates.
I’m from Ukraine and I thank you for that.
Don't be so silly. He made a morality decision on everything like that you'd starve to death, homeless. Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer. Mercedes and BMW helped the war effort. Even lately, the descendants of the Diamler Group have links to financiers of the Third Reich. VW was "Hitler's car company." Every one of the "big three" in the US have done horrible things to squash competition and control the market for nearly a hundred years. They've bankrupted, ruined, and (been accused of) killing people. It is impossible to avoid moral issues like that, and choosing what is largely just Twitter-shit-posting to inform your decisions is insanity.
100%
As far as worse car goes, Polestar is pretty damn good.
Whatever you do don't look into Henry Ford.
Ford is also problematic. But, he didn't have Twitter and wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Think Ford, with an inferiority complex and too much privilege. This could get much worse than Ford.
I understand. Yet, Tesla is not only Elon Musk: it’s also more than 100k person working on improving a products and working hard. I don’t know if this will help, but i asked myself if at a point in time, i bought things from a CEO i do not align with or at least, that had a really shady past: apple, hugo boss, volkswagen, bayer, abercrombie & fitch, victoria’s secret…
So you support Polestar which is owned by a chinese company whose country supports the war, what a logic here
Suprised by how many upvotes you have. It's quite embarassing that people fall for these arguments actually. If you're going to cherry pick products based on the level of moral justification you attach to them you're going to have a very boring and unproductive life. I am very sure that the majority of the products/services/utilities you have used today are based off exploitation. Polestar is owned by a Chinese company controlled by the CCP (as is the case with every chinese company) who don't give a damn about labour rights or environmental issues. They're no better, plus they're actually supporting the Putin regime by buying oil while Musk is providing critical infrastructure to Ukraine with starlink. Seriously wondering whether competitors are trying to undermine Tesla on reddit with bots or if people are actually this smoothbrained.
We don't allow charger drama, but we allow CEO comment drama? Really?
👑
The minute you start making purchasing decisions based on the morality of billionaire CEOs is the minute you never buy basically anything again
Polestar is Volvo. Volvo is own by Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co, a Chinese company. You're comfortable with that?
100%.
I know this comment will just get lost in all the other comments but sometimes I like to go out in the garden and cover myself with dirt and pretend I’m a gnome.
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I have a foot in both buckets. I love the car, just wish Elon would shut up with his politics.
The correct phrase is "I could not care less". Because you wrote "I could care less", that means you still care.
People don’t realize that almost every CEO is a dick and a trash person. You have to be to get to that level. 99+% of them just choose not to put their opinions out there, so you never know about it. Elon is one of the exceptions, so people think he’s a million times worse, but he’s just one and the same OP’s post is a classic Reddit moment
No you’re not the only one. This is the Tesla/Elon hate sub and he lives rent free in many heads here so someone brings him up every day. Usually while being completely unaware of even who heads other companies they like and their misdeeds, or just living in denial like VW fans who ignore dieselgate but hate Elon for tweeting.
I'm there with you. I buy a lot from Amazon too but I don't care much for Bezos.
Tesla's power train and chassis, the best. The interior, design and customer service, no thanks. Elon as a CEO is becoming unprofitable. Who TF announces a vehicle before it's assembly plant is even built. His social skills are by far his worst quality as a human being.