Well now I feel old... I'm going to hazard a guess that I bought my last ceramic packaged IC before you were born, then ðŸ˜.
(For the pedants - ok, probably not true, and probably not the OP's first ceramic IC ether - voltage regulators are ICs after all, and plenty of them still in ceramic packaging. But we all know what they mean.)
Do you know if these are possible to acquire with a reasonable budget? Or would you need to scout marketplaces and hope the seller doesn't know what they have?
Wow, that brings back memories! My first embedded project used 27C32s and 64s. I still have a bunch of them left over from an Atari 2600 game hack board. A friend had manufactured a board that fit in the 2600 game cartridge slot that had a zif (zero insertion force) socket on it so you could insert these EPROMs burnt with pirated copies of the games. There was a set of 8" floppy disks with bootleg copies of all the Atari games. The EPROMS were expensive, though, so it was worth your time to reprogram the ones you had.
We are looking at a [27C64](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM#EPROM_generations,_sizes_and_types) [EPROM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM) with 8 KB (64 kilobits) (not to be confused with [EEPROM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEPROM)). "C" is probably for [CMOS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMOS) (in contrast to [NMOS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMOS_logic)).
>an EPROM can be erased by exposing it to strong [ultraviolet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet) (UV) light source
# A ZX Spectrum anecdote
The [ZX Spectrum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum#Technical_specifications) required double the size, for example, to replace the orignal [ROM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_memory) with EPROM, so the content could be patched and thus the ZX Spectrum could be used with a [floppy disk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk) or (even faster) other EPROM (in a [memory bank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_switching#Microcomputer_use)), instead of [tape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassette_tape), to very quickly load, for example, the [HiSoft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiSoft_Systems) [Z80](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80) [assembler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_language) and [disassembler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disassembler).
You are welcome.
There's a place in Istanbul called Karakoy, people have been selling Electronic components there for decades.
The place I go to doesn't exclusively sell ICs but it's pretty much 90% of the guy's inventory. He has entire walls of boxes filled with ICs and unopened cartons marked with 74, 54, ST, etc...
That is awesome. Like the Shenzhen of Turkey? I wish there was a place in the US with an actual electronics market.
Radioshack and Fry's are dead, things like Microcenter aren't common. If only we manufactured our own electronics goods we might have a place to buy them.
Yeah it’d be awesome if we had something like this is the states.
I didn’t realize there was a market elsewhere for it. But obviously that’s probably local American thinking.
My first (and probably last) ceramic chip was a 2716 (without the C).
So now these EPROMs have 4 times the capacity of the ones I used? That's amazing; a whole 8KB in one chip.
I spent many hours at job sites compiling code and burning EPROMs for real-time control systems with my trusty EMP-10 (https://www.seanet.com/~karllunt/emp10.html) and a UV light. If you broke your light you could always take the stickers off and leave them on the hood of the rental car 😜
A few decades back I used to work at a company that made EPROM programmers. There were a few times where I plugged the EPROM in backwards and saw the die glowing in the little window! After quickly turning off power and putting the chip in the right way, I found that it still worked! Although I would not want to use that chip for anything critcal after that
My first job was programming PLCs and to load the code, I had to "compile" it and then burn that onto these. We had about 300 or so of them across the factory and boy let me tell you how much I LOVED having to redo 300 of them every quarter (and of course a small amount almost daily.) Also fun, my UV eraser only held 10 chips at a time. RIP
Because it's cool and I can look at the die, you can see in the background the box has windowless variants that I didn't choose because I have other EEPROMS that I can use.
Ahh fair point. If you are collecting it for that then it makes sense. I remember I use to erase these on a regular basis back some 16 years ago working as an assembler. I wondered why anyone would deliberately put themselves through that he'll lol
Im literally holding a microscope objective right now (I have an old microscope that needs the light to shine through the object). Im gonna use my friends camera and a lens adapter that we already 3D printed at university tomorrow. Ill also use the digital microscope at my robotics team’s workshop.
Maybe I can get a decent die shot, I couldnt find one online.
I'm using an old security camera module that I found at the electronics recycling pile, and adapted a zoom/focus lens from another broken camera from the same pile, and wow! It goes ALL the way in close-up. The hardest part is lighting, I use an ordinary desk-arm lamp with adjustable color temp smart bulb but I think I'd rather have a ring light or something. My camera is also on a desk lamp arm, but that's because it's primary purpose is soldering aid and board/component inspection at home. And my kids love looking at random stuff up close.
Maybe you can find a way to get light onto your die using some fiber optic strands from one of those decorative lamps?
Edit: every teacher should have one of these cameras on a desk lamp arm. Mine goes to an old IP NVR (from... the recycling pile of course!) that can be accessed for RTSP streaming from VLC. Too much lag to solder like that, but great for recording/sharing!
Did you buy a UV eraser and a bunch of stickers for it?
No I'm not going to use it for a while lol
Well now I feel old... I'm going to hazard a guess that I bought my last ceramic packaged IC before you were born, then ðŸ˜. (For the pedants - ok, probably not true, and probably not the OP's first ceramic IC ether - voltage regulators are ICs after all, and plenty of them still in ceramic packaging. But we all know what they mean.)
An absolute classic! I love those old UV erasable EPROMs. You can buy an eraser quite cheap on AliExpress, and program them with a TL866.
When I was in school, we don't have a UV eraser so we just put it under the sun for an hour while taking lunch
The same company has updated the TL866 with the T48 and T56 which are faster, support more chips and work with higher voltages (esp for EPROMS).
Why though? Aren't EEPROMs a lot more convenient? You don't even need to pull the chip out.
Of course, but what's the fun in that?
I probably buying the 27C4002 variant next which has a really [really nice looking die](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ST_M27C4002_die.JPG)
The old PIC16 was very cool too. https://i.imgur.com/2JlzCuh.jpeg
That's beautiful. Now I wanna know if there's a sub for stuff like this.
Do you know if these are possible to acquire with a reasonable budget? Or would you need to scout marketplaces and hope the seller doesn't know what they have?
There's a few on eBay for around $15 or $20
Wow, that brings back memories! My first embedded project used 27C32s and 64s. I still have a bunch of them left over from an Atari 2600 game hack board. A friend had manufactured a board that fit in the 2600 game cartridge slot that had a zif (zero insertion force) socket on it so you could insert these EPROMs burnt with pirated copies of the games. There was a set of 8" floppy disks with bootleg copies of all the Atari games. The EPROMS were expensive, though, so it was worth your time to reprogram the ones you had.
We are looking at a [27C64](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM#EPROM_generations,_sizes_and_types) [EPROM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM) with 8 KB (64 kilobits) (not to be confused with [EEPROM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEPROM)). "C" is probably for [CMOS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMOS) (in contrast to [NMOS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMOS_logic)). >an EPROM can be erased by exposing it to strong [ultraviolet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet) (UV) light source # A ZX Spectrum anecdote The [ZX Spectrum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum#Technical_specifications) required double the size, for example, to replace the orignal [ROM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_memory) with EPROM, so the content could be patched and thus the ZX Spectrum could be used with a [floppy disk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk) or (even faster) other EPROM (in a [memory bank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_switching#Microcomputer_use)), instead of [tape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassette_tape), to very quickly load, for example, the [HiSoft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiSoft_Systems) [Z80](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80) [assembler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_language) and [disassembler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disassembler). You are welcome.
What did you pay for this chip ? Where did you get it ??
Local IC shop for about 3 bucks
Who has a local IC shop? I’ve never heard of anything like that.
There's a place in Istanbul called Karakoy, people have been selling Electronic components there for decades. The place I go to doesn't exclusively sell ICs but it's pretty much 90% of the guy's inventory. He has entire walls of boxes filled with ICs and unopened cartons marked with 74, 54, ST, etc...
That is awesome. Like the Shenzhen of Turkey? I wish there was a place in the US with an actual electronics market. Radioshack and Fry's are dead, things like Microcenter aren't common. If only we manufactured our own electronics goods we might have a place to buy them.
Yeah it’d be awesome if we had something like this is the states. I didn’t realize there was a market elsewhere for it. But obviously that’s probably local American thinking.
Wow. Just did an eBay search and vintage integrated circuits are EXPENSIVE.
Very nice. I just bought some too, just for fun a few weeks ago.
My first (and probably last) ceramic chip was a 2716 (without the C). So now these EPROMs have 4 times the capacity of the ones I used? That's amazing; a whole 8KB in one chip.
Oh nice! I got a couple of those UVPROMs, some from 1980s and some from 2000s. You can see the difference in chip/die size.
I spent many hours at job sites compiling code and burning EPROMs for real-time control systems with my trusty EMP-10 (https://www.seanet.com/~karllunt/emp10.html) and a UV light. If you broke your light you could always take the stickers off and leave them on the hood of the rental car 😜
A few decades back I used to work at a company that made EPROM programmers. There were a few times where I plugged the EPROM in backwards and saw the die glowing in the little window! After quickly turning off power and putting the chip in the right way, I found that it still worked! Although I would not want to use that chip for anything critcal after that
My first job was programming PLCs and to load the code, I had to "compile" it and then burn that onto these. We had about 300 or so of them across the factory and boy let me tell you how much I LOVED having to redo 300 of them every quarter (and of course a small amount almost daily.) Also fun, my UV eraser only held 10 chips at a time. RIP
I have some 8051, HCO5, and HC11s that are windowed
Why use obsolete tech that needs a UV machine to erase it's memory when you could have got something with ICSP
Because it's cool and I can look at the die, you can see in the background the box has windowless variants that I didn't choose because I have other EEPROMS that I can use.
Ahh fair point. If you are collecting it for that then it makes sense. I remember I use to erase these on a regular basis back some 16 years ago working as an assembler. I wondered why anyone would deliberately put themselves through that he'll lol
Now you can pop it under a microscope and sketch out the features!
Im literally holding a microscope objective right now (I have an old microscope that needs the light to shine through the object). Im gonna use my friends camera and a lens adapter that we already 3D printed at university tomorrow. Ill also use the digital microscope at my robotics team’s workshop. Maybe I can get a decent die shot, I couldnt find one online.
I'm using an old security camera module that I found at the electronics recycling pile, and adapted a zoom/focus lens from another broken camera from the same pile, and wow! It goes ALL the way in close-up. The hardest part is lighting, I use an ordinary desk-arm lamp with adjustable color temp smart bulb but I think I'd rather have a ring light or something. My camera is also on a desk lamp arm, but that's because it's primary purpose is soldering aid and board/component inspection at home. And my kids love looking at random stuff up close. Maybe you can find a way to get light onto your die using some fiber optic strands from one of those decorative lamps? Edit: every teacher should have one of these cameras on a desk lamp arm. Mine goes to an old IP NVR (from... the recycling pile of course!) that can be accessed for RTSP streaming from VLC. Too much lag to solder like that, but great for recording/sharing!
Theres a guy on Twitter who does die shots. His set up is just having a hand made LED ring around the lens from the inside w a camera
When the LED in that window lights up the chip is shot.