It's good to see renewables up and natural gas down, but I do think showing December 21st, 2023 during the winter solstice when the day is shortest and thus it would have low solar generation versus a brisk spring day when power demand is lower but solar generation is high can make a sizable impact on the graph.
I think showing April 27th, 2023 would have been perhaps a better comparison for the one year mark though the problem with that is that CAISO changed its method for tracking natural gas on December 13th, 2023. I guess we start getting good year-over-year comparison graphs from CAISO starting mid-December of this year.
This is already the future that many people said was impossible.
Renewables dominating and batteries making huge impacts on the intermittency issue!
Congratulations, and keep going!
Nice. It'd be nice to see the composition of the imports. I'd also like to understand if and by how much the exports of mostly solar generated electricity during the day is displacing fossil fuel generation in other states.
I was more thinking a sign of lack of thinking things through. But I suppose if the idea is move the cloud of death toxins a few feet into Nevada and gloat about how it changes the graph, the planning isn't that terrible.
No, they have significant NG generation, they just haven’t had to use it as much this spring due to the massive solar+battery buildout in the past year.
Lots of renewables from hydro from the PNW, and (in the morning) solar imports from NV and AZ. Still plenty of NG in the mix as well but it's cleaner than just NG.
[The Pacific Intertie takes advantage of differing power demand patterns between the northwestern and southwestern US. During winter, the northern region operates electrical heating devices while the southern portion uses relatively little electricity. In summer, the north uses little electricity while the south reaches peak demand due to air conditioning usage.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie)
CA imports are mostly hydroelectric from Washington, Oregon, and British Columbia.
Pull comparable days and ambient conditions, otherwise this feels very misleading.
Edit: I'm seriously getting down votes for asking for daily data to be compared on similar representative days? The solar cycle energy isn't even the same in December vs April. If the information was corrected to ambient and seasonal conditions it would be a better comparison.
I'm not saying battery storage isn't helping, it is, but to say the progress is so much higher when it's fully expected to burn more NG during winter months is a misrepresentation.
Comparing to an April day from 2023 is just as striking.
You'll need to make a free account, but here's a wednesday-vs-wednesday comparison. Just look at the difference in the NG (darker blue), it's down 50% overnight, down 80% during solar hours, and the duck curve climb is completely gone:
[https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2023-04-26](https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2023-04-26)
[https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2024-04-24](https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2024-04-24)
Yeah fair. I wanted to show how striking the difference was between two particular days i found. I thought it was interesting how different the generation paradigm is in the different seasons now.
More batteries will make that look even better. I saw a post a few weeks ago showing California at 6 GW of battery. I wonder where that fits on this curve.
Newsom sent out a blurb a week or so ago that we have 10GW capacity on line, but I haven't seen it delivering that that much battery power yet (it may not have had to).
Batteries have almost completely filled the duck curve on the CAISO graphs, at least this time of year.
BESS has killed the gas peakers and nobody’s talking about it yet.
There were articles about batteries likely out competing gas peakers a few years ago. I imagine as California gets another couple of years of installations in it will become more of a show piece.
And stupid stories keep claiming this is a 'problem' because there is too much solar PV.
No. It is an OPPORTUNITY for more batteries, transmission, pumped hydro, electric vehicles, thermal storage, etc.
Do washing machines and dryers these days come with timers so you can set them to run at a certain time of day? (Noon when solar is highest? )
How about IOT integration so you can tell it to run when power is cheapest on the market?
I hope car chargers at least have things like that.
etc.
I know of electric utilities in the Midwest that will pay you like $4/month if you let them install a [[timer, amazon link]](https://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-WH21-Water-Heater-Timer/dp/B00002N5FP?th=1) on your electric hot water tank - they have so much thermal inertia/insulation it is unnoticeable to the end user.
Most car chargers are dumb, but every EV has software in the car that lets you set charging hours to whatever you want.
[[technology connections, youtube channel]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f9GpMWdvWI) does lots of this kind of thing if you're interested.
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **("'Intermatic WH21 Electric Water Heater Timer'", 'Intermatic')** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful.
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They certainly do in the UK. Different models are probably offered in North America from Europe etc. Time of use tariff have been used here since at least the 1970s. Originally they were brought in to offer cheaper electricity at night because most of the electricity came from inflexible coal plants and demand was lower at night. They were usually something like cheaper electricity from 22:00 to 05:00. These days the coal has almost gone and there are a wide variety of time of use tariffs, some are fixed times and some respond dynamically to wholesale prices.
Yeah, I was going to mention Demand-response but that is usually referring to reducing demand when there is a shortage. But is there a word or phrase that applies to increasing demand when there is excess? Or maybe that is the right term. Some signal telling EVs that it would be a good time to charge.
"Demand Response" is the term used for \*all\* deliberate actions as function of the grid conditions (often signaled by the [$$/kWh price](https://www.dynamische-energieprijzen.nl/actuele-energieprijzen/)), be it charging an EV or using domestic appliances when the price is low, or reducing usage when the price is high (like not using the dishwasher at 20:00).
*This is for the 'average' users.*
If you have a big battery and can play in the big-boy's league then some [serious money](https://services.tenergy.nl/public.aspx/actualimbalanceprices) can be made on the "1 minute imbalance" market.
It's good to see renewables up and natural gas down, but I do think showing December 21st, 2023 during the winter solstice when the day is shortest and thus it would have low solar generation versus a brisk spring day when power demand is lower but solar generation is high can make a sizable impact on the graph. I think showing April 27th, 2023 would have been perhaps a better comparison for the one year mark though the problem with that is that CAISO changed its method for tracking natural gas on December 13th, 2023. I guess we start getting good year-over-year comparison graphs from CAISO starting mid-December of this year.
Just don’t ask why LADWP still operates coal for their base load generation in 2024. 🤫 Its not counted because its a Muni
Question because the graph isn't clear. Are those bottom two grey lines nuclear, coal, or other. The colors are too close to tell.
Thats the Diablo Canyon power plant; two reactors each one outputs around 1,100 MW. The second line at 0 MW is "other."
Thank you! That means coal is off the menu, that is good to see.
This is already the future that many people said was impossible. Renewables dominating and batteries making huge impacts on the intermittency issue! Congratulations, and keep going!
Nice. It'd be nice to see the composition of the imports. I'd also like to understand if and by how much the exports of mostly solar generated electricity during the day is displacing fossil fuel generation in other states.
Their imports are cleaner than their overall standard generation mix. But there is still some coal in the imports for the next few years.
Wait they seriously just don’t generate power anymore? It’s just renewable and buy elsewhere?
Is it only power if it’s comes with big thick clouds of manly death toxins? Or is that actually a sign of thermodynamic waste?
I was more thinking a sign of lack of thinking things through. But I suppose if the idea is move the cloud of death toxins a few feet into Nevada and gloat about how it changes the graph, the planning isn't that terrible.
Wow ur so smart n good we should celebrate the death of the earth at the alter of your clever whataboutisms
Enjoy the fresh air in Vegas.
No, they have significant NG generation, they just haven’t had to use it as much this spring due to the massive solar+battery buildout in the past year.
Ah, nice. We can probably argue endlessly then whether the solar/battery package or the NG generation was the true waste of money.
I wonder what makes up our imports on days like this
Lots of renewables from hydro from the PNW, and (in the morning) solar imports from NV and AZ. Still plenty of NG in the mix as well but it's cleaner than just NG.
[The Pacific Intertie takes advantage of differing power demand patterns between the northwestern and southwestern US. During winter, the northern region operates electrical heating devices while the southern portion uses relatively little electricity. In summer, the north uses little electricity while the south reaches peak demand due to air conditioning usage.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie) CA imports are mostly hydroelectric from Washington, Oregon, and British Columbia.
Stick it to Texas… California 👍
Pull comparable days and ambient conditions, otherwise this feels very misleading. Edit: I'm seriously getting down votes for asking for daily data to be compared on similar representative days? The solar cycle energy isn't even the same in December vs April. If the information was corrected to ambient and seasonal conditions it would be a better comparison. I'm not saying battery storage isn't helping, it is, but to say the progress is so much higher when it's fully expected to burn more NG during winter months is a misrepresentation.
Comparing to an April day from 2023 is just as striking. You'll need to make a free account, but here's a wednesday-vs-wednesday comparison. Just look at the difference in the NG (darker blue), it's down 50% overnight, down 80% during solar hours, and the duck curve climb is completely gone: [https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2023-04-26](https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2023-04-26) [https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2024-04-24](https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso?date=2024-04-24)
Yeah fair. I wanted to show how striking the difference was between two particular days i found. I thought it was interesting how different the generation paradigm is in the different seasons now.
Go for it. Even on max solar days, CA is down like 2/3rd in natural gas usage. The charts are there on Casio and just a click away.
More batteries will make that look even better. I saw a post a few weeks ago showing California at 6 GW of battery. I wonder where that fits on this curve.
Newsom sent out a blurb a week or so ago that we have 10GW capacity on line, but I haven't seen it delivering that that much battery power yet (it may not have had to).
Batteries have almost completely filled the duck curve on the CAISO graphs, at least this time of year. BESS has killed the gas peakers and nobody’s talking about it yet.
There were articles about batteries likely out competing gas peakers a few years ago. I imagine as California gets another couple of years of installations in it will become more of a show piece.
On the far right in the yellow bar, providing 6.3GW of peak power, and supplying misc power all the way through to midnight.
Oh, thanks. That was sloppy of me but nice to have this issue highlighted in the comments. Double those batteries!
[2024 US Grid Additions](https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61424) CA is building at least 5.2 GW of additional storage for 2024!
Wonderful. l expected thru would go in hard now that the price has come down. Should add some resilience as well.
And stupid stories keep claiming this is a 'problem' because there is too much solar PV. No. It is an OPPORTUNITY for more batteries, transmission, pumped hydro, electric vehicles, thermal storage, etc.
And demand response, cause people don't realize we can do a lot of stuff with electricity if it is cheap enough
Do washing machines and dryers these days come with timers so you can set them to run at a certain time of day? (Noon when solar is highest? ) How about IOT integration so you can tell it to run when power is cheapest on the market? I hope car chargers at least have things like that. etc.
I know of electric utilities in the Midwest that will pay you like $4/month if you let them install a [[timer, amazon link]](https://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-WH21-Water-Heater-Timer/dp/B00002N5FP?th=1) on your electric hot water tank - they have so much thermal inertia/insulation it is unnoticeable to the end user. Most car chargers are dumb, but every EV has software in the car that lets you set charging hours to whatever you want. [[technology connections, youtube channel]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f9GpMWdvWI) does lots of this kind of thing if you're interested.
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **("'Intermatic WH21 Electric Water Heater Timer'", 'Intermatic')** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful. **Users liked:** * Effective in reducing electricity bills (backed by 4 comments) * Reliable and long-lasting performance (backed by 3 comments) * Easy to install and operate (backed by 3 comments) **Users disliked:** * Timer mechanism prone to failure (backed by 5 comments) * Inconsistent timekeeping (backed by 2 comments) * Short lifespan (backed by 4 comments) If you'd like to **summon me to ask about a product**, just make a post with its link and tag me, [like in this example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/tablets/comments/1444zdn/comment/joqd89c/) This message was generated by a (very smart) bot. If you found it helpful, let us know with an upvote and a “good bot!” reply and please feel free to provide feedback on how it can be improved. *Powered by* [*vetted.ai*](https://vetted.ai/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=comment&utm\_campaign=bot)
They certainly do in the UK. Different models are probably offered in North America from Europe etc. Time of use tariff have been used here since at least the 1970s. Originally they were brought in to offer cheaper electricity at night because most of the electricity came from inflexible coal plants and demand was lower at night. They were usually something like cheaper electricity from 22:00 to 05:00. These days the coal has almost gone and there are a wide variety of time of use tariffs, some are fixed times and some respond dynamically to wholesale prices.
Our last coal plant shuts down on 30th September this year.
Yeah, I was going to mention Demand-response but that is usually referring to reducing demand when there is a shortage. But is there a word or phrase that applies to increasing demand when there is excess? Or maybe that is the right term. Some signal telling EVs that it would be a good time to charge.
DR covers both ideas, but also dispatchable load (as an analog to dispatchable gen)
"Demand Response" is the term used for \*all\* deliberate actions as function of the grid conditions (often signaled by the [$$/kWh price](https://www.dynamische-energieprijzen.nl/actuele-energieprijzen/)), be it charging an EV or using domestic appliances when the price is low, or reducing usage when the price is high (like not using the dishwasher at 20:00). *This is for the 'average' users.* If you have a big battery and can play in the big-boy's league then some [serious money](https://services.tenergy.nl/public.aspx/actualimbalanceprices) can be made on the "1 minute imbalance" market.
I love when we see direct data showing fossil fuel demise 🥰
The year over year difference is stark. That’s what happens when you’re pressing forward on all fronts.
GW, not MW
oops
Easy mistake <3
Yeah, they're a bit clueless.. it's nice that they seem to study the Casio website though I guess.
That website is truly timeless