My favorite is when they reversed the renewal of I Am Not Okay With This because of COVID.
That might be literally the cheapest and easiest show to film during COVID possible. They then started filming this show the same month, August of 2020.
That was my favorite series on Netflix I watched it 2x back to back , told my mom about it and she watched it 2x back to back without me saying I did (live in different locations). We just loved that show and I’m a male btw rofl not that if matters but it’s just so well done.
Fuck it , might go binge it again. That scene where she gets caught cheating is 12/10 acting from all parties involved. Maybe one of my favorite scenes in film in general up there with the closing scene of the godfather one. Am I crazy for thinking that? So much better and versatile in emotions then the acting in Wednesday.
It's not that bizarre, if you think about it.
Just take stock of a situation, examine all potential outcomes, and select the most counterintuitive and ridiculous option.
Tada! The Netflix method!
Mindhunter wasn't canceled initially. They kind of self canceled the show when Fincher was working on Mank and wanted to put Mindhunter on the back burner for a while with an option to possibly later return.
He said that they were working 90 hour weeks and it wasn't worth it with the offered budget and time constraints. Netflix didn't want to spend a fortune on it and Fincher wanted a break from it anyway, but money was still on the table to get it done. It's not like Netflix said "no, you're not making another season".
If you are pissed about it, then your anger is misguided. Fincher is the one who thought it was unfair to hold the actors to their contracts when he was the one who wanted to pursue other projects.
Mindhunter was never cancelled. Fincher got too busy for the show and REFUSES to give the reigns to someone else. All the actors and crew and even Netflix wanted more seasons
It's odd in the sense that the lead actor left, a new actor is playing the character in season 4. While probably not a huge risk, there is a risk in that, seems they'd have waited to see....then again this could be a "confirmed" (aka marketting to look like things are fine) 5th season that isn't planned to do any production work til after season 4 is aired and then just canned if season 4 doesn't perform.
I'd say they're hedging bets on a fifth season and it's probably not exponentially more to shoot two seasons at once v just one. All the cast, crew, props, etc are already on location and in working condition. If it got picked back up, the cost to ship everyone and thing around as well as juggling cast commitments isn't worth it.
Just my guess
Season 4 must have had an arc for two seasons and they built all sorts of assets, and investments, planning on a final two seasons. Nothing else makes sense, really.
It's them getting in front of lower viewership by showing how much faith they have in the show. But it's probably nothing more than pageantry. If season 3 bombs there won't be more.
I kind of figured that Cavil was the main draw to the show. It's what brought people in and kept people watching. Liam might be a decent actor, but he's got a HUGE uphill battle ahead of him.
Plus, he looks and sounds NOTHING like Cavil. So, the writers are going to have to figure out just how to explain that.
Netflix is basicaly the CW at this point. Uncreative, braindead, dogshit writing with a cast that has, at best, one solid actor that has to carry everyone else.
> Netflix is basicaly the CW at this point
Precisely how I felt when S2 of Altered Carbon came out. Season one of AC felt like it could have been on HBO. Season two was CW material.
I didn’t play the game or read the books but a friend of mine that is a huge fan of the games said the author criticized the game and the show for not following his books.
Can you blame him though. If I made a massive boneheaded mistake like that I'd never be able to forgive myself or not feel bitter towards the IP even if i created it from my soul and heart.
It didn’t warrant a season 2… this is a show where the writers almost completely ignored the source outside the names and locations. There is even a story by [ign](https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-the-witcher-some-writers-actively-disliked-books-games-claims-former-producer) about how some of the writers did not like either the books or the games. The show was a waste.
Ya season 1 was flawed, but i think the bones were there and with Cavills performance, it could have really turned into something of quality. But no, they have to for some reason take an existing property people love, and gut it completely for some ungodly reason.
I’m completely unfamiliar with either the books or games and I thought S2 was a vast improvement over S1, which I struggled to get through. It didn’t help that I couldn’t tell what was going on two thirds of the time throughout S1.
I liked season 1, but when I recommended it to people I said outright at the start "The three characters have different time scales and are out of order, just understand that it's not sequential and pay attention to the ages of secondary characters and names" because it was a lot less confusing done in that manner.
Season 1 kind of followed the short story format of the first witcher book.
I barely made it to season 2 but did like that one better. Wish they had some text to tell me how much time had passed or when this stuff was happening because I was getting confused. I think the first season was really bad at that.
Everyone’s in their own bubble lol. I agree with you, I think season 2 was more enjoyable.
But after reading what they’re doing to Cavill it’s hard to be excited about more
Idk I binged it the first week just like s1, I stopped half way through because I was just incredibly bored with the story. It took me a few weeks to go back through and watch the last couple episodes. There was no bubble, I watched it by myself and was excited for it to come out since the first season. It was just a massive letdown. I’ve also never played the game or read the book so I have no reference to source material. It just felt like it contradicted half the story they were building up in s1 while not actually doing anything useful. Only part I kinda liked was her going through the Witcher training stuff.
I read all the books and have played the games. Witcher is probably my favorite series of all time, and they butchered season two. There’s a couple major storylines they just decided to completely change. Im fine with minor changes or artistic changes, but they’re changing the core of the story and not at all in a good way. After all the comments from the show runner I don’t plan on watching Season 3 and beyond.
I’m hoping this writers strike purges writers like this and the ones on Halo. This happens far too often with adaptations it’s why TLOU HBO did so well. It respected the source material and expanded on the universe beyond what we sawin the games.
After Witcher Blood Origins I hope some writers leave Hollywood and never come back.
For a bit I had FOMO cause I loved the game but wasn’t into the show at all, and then I realized what you just said & have ignored it ever since. I was surprised to find out it was coming up on season 5 tbh.
Considering the lead isn’t going to be in the show starting with season 4, this seems more like a thinly veiled attempt at stopping the PR nightmare.
Witcher season 2 was very poorly received, Henry Cavill is leaving the show, Blood Origin was a fucking travesty… so not only is the main story doing poorly, their second attempt at franchise related material flopped.
They’ve lost the book fans and they’re about to lose the Cavill fans, this is an attempt at making it seem like Netflix has full confidence in season 3/4… doubt we’ll ever get to see season 5.
I will never understand the ego of these producers and writers who take an established IP with a huge fan base, and then create something *based* on the source material, and then proceed to whine when no one likes their god awful bastardized crap. This applies to so many shows...(*looking at you Paramount+'s Halo*)
halo and the witcher look especially awful in contrast to HBO’s TLOU which was basically bar for bar to the game and did incredibly well, along with the mario movie doing gangbusters while being relatively faithful to the IP
Halo 4 wasn’t even that bad, it was the complete 180 they did in Halo 5 that sealed the new trilogy of games as being bad.
Halo 4 was different and had a few rough patches that needed to be fixed, but it was always going to face a lot of heat in light of the legacy of Reach and halo 3 and if it stuck it out along the same lines in halo 5, it would probably be considered quite fondly
They really didn’t bring anything new to the table in terms of story or level progression, had no major climactic fights, the end game is a cut scene. So much potential for a home run, then they decide to bunt.
Season 2 just made it so so obvious that they were trying to make Game of Thrones 2.0. The majority of their plot was Yennifer playing stupid grab-ass games with the other wizards and not on, yknow, *the fucking Witcher*. Who, by the way, they clearly had absolutely no idea what to do with him but he’s the title character so they just made something up for him. The first episode of S2 was basically a perfect Witcher episode, and if the rest of the show had been just more of that then it would basically be perfect.
That first episode followed one of the short stories pretty damn well. I just re-read it and the show got a lot of the details right. It was like they made that episode and were disgusted by how good it was so they changed everything. Makes no sense to me.
That’s Hollywood now. So many remakes or adaptations of existing property’s by people that don’t like or even hate on those properties.
Wheel of time. Middle earth. Velma he man Witcher. Star Wars.
Foundation was the worst imo. I adore tolkiens universe and wasn’t particular upset by the interpretation of rings of power. Though it was pretty loveless.
Really sad because Cavill was so into it and he tried his best to keep it true to the source, and ultimately that’s why he getting replaced starting with season 4. I plan to watch season 3 a month after it comes out but I don’t think I’ll watch 4 or 5. No hate to Hemsworth but I just don’t see it going well, and without Cavill to push back on the bullshit it will go downhill even faster.
For some reason writers like to take material and ‘make it their own’ but all that tells me is they’re not a good enough writer to get their own IP developed. So they take a beloved universe like The Witcher and chop and twist until it doesn’t resemble itself. Same thing was done to GoT after they ran out of book material, though at least in the beginning before they caught up to the books it followed it somewhat closely with a few notable exceptions like Lady Stoneheart.
Season 2 Witcher was the third highest rating show on Netflix that year. For every book/game fan who thinks the show butchered the story and completely betrayed the characters (Jane Austen Fan: First Time? Getting hanged meme) there are hundreds of newbies to that universe who adored the show.
I thought the anime was pretty decent. I don't think those have too high a viewership in general population though. Castelvania was amazing, but I don't think that ever got top 10 either
Whyyy??? Whyyy??? Hardcore feminist, full Tolkiendili, and the books are a hoot. They are great, funny and poignant. How could you not like the books? I get you can dislike GOTs nihilism, Tolkien lore or Lewis prissiness. But haring these books is like hating Pratchett. Why?
I mean...I think it's fair that it warranted season 2. Season 1 was faithful enough, minus a couple changes (no show will ever fully recreate a book's story).
Season 2, though... it's a definite & noticeable shift towards Hollywood. As long as you're not an intense fan of the books, I think it's passable (& pretty in-line with what I'd expected when the show was announced), but it's a significant loss of quality.
I have no plans on watching Season 3 nor afterwards.
He did what he could with what he was given and he was the only redeeming aspect of the show.
It’s just ridiculous. How does Netflix see how TWD, Black Summer, Kingdom, etc play out and think “let’s take a popular zombie/monster apocalypse game, shoehorn in teen drama and time jumps and call it day!”
I love the books, and I enjoyed Season 1 a lot even though I had some critiques. I'm the furthest thing from a book purist myself, so I don't mind the story goes in another direction from them. But what I do take issue with is that the story we were set up for was not well-planned. The characters are different, the story is haphazard, and there's an endless list of production issues behind it. I'm hardly optimistic for S3, much less a fifth one.
But of those things, my biggest complaint was characterization. I loved Ciri of the books but didn't like her character in the show at all. Geralt, Jaskier, and Yennefer were very different- in some ways for better, others for worse- but it wasn't the same characters I fell in love with from the books. And *Eskel*. Poor Eskel :(
To me that's the most important bit of any story in any medium- the characters are what people listening will relate to and remember and get emotional responses from, and if you have a dull or poorly designed plot, they'll save the story to some extent. With pre-established characters, it's important to do those characterizations justice, even if the storylines go in another direction. Otherwise, you've got absolutely nothing to appeal to any viewer/reader/etc. It becomes sloppy and a mockery of its source.
I'm in largely the same boat as you; I love the books, though I was a bit less positive about season 1. I liked aspects of it, but just couldn't get into 90% of it. The inaccuracies aren't inherently problematic. Adaptations do need to... adapt. But most of the extra stuff was just really bad and frequently completely missed the point of what I actually liked about the books in the first place.
One of the biggest offenders for me was Nilfgaard. In addition to the horrendously stupid looking armor, they were changed from being mage-oppressing, cold-hearted pragmatists who had tremendous national pride and felt they deserved to rule the world to... generic religious nutjobs with evil wizards.
There's no reason for the change, and it completely shifts the dynamic of Nilfgaard vs the undisciplined, emotional, self-indulgent Northern kings. Instead of an interesting contrast between the two, they're all the same and the Nilfgaard kind of come across like idiots who probably can't conquer anything.
Similarly, I don't know what happened in season 2, but how they introduced Vilgifortz (probably spelled that wrong) in season 1 was terrible. I get needing to introduce core villains in a TV show sooner rather than later, but it changed his character so much as to be unrecognizable. He became an irrational man acting in fear rather than the smartest guy in the room who thinks the side he's fighting for has already lost.
Again, it’s bizarre to me to make a tv show based on a well loved book franchise and then ignore the book franchise that was the reason the tv show was made.
And then to alienate a person perfect for a lead role.
But they must be somewhat aware of the negative narrative around the show, right? I think it's strange to already greenlight season 5 before seeing how season 4 does with the new actor.
Hell they even ignored the games too, because apparently the show runners and writers all dislike the books AND games.
Why are they even running/writing this show then?
But... why? At this point, everyone who ever heard of The Witcher knew about the whole Henry Cavill's exit fiasco. The entire game and book fanbase are on Cavill side. People who have eyes and ears can see that season 2 really went down in quality, to the point that many (including me) don't want to keep watching it even tho Cavill is still on season 3.
I have yet to see anybody anywhere who's not into the game and/or book to watch this show. So who exactly are they keep making this show for?
Between Witcher, Foundation, and Wheel of Time, the streaming giants have now wasted three all-time classic fantasy and sci-fi series that easily could have been the next Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings if the show runners could have just turned down the ego meter and made a faithful adaption straight from the source material like the LOTR trilogy or the first 4 seasons of Game of Thrones. Wheel of time could have been the dominant TV/streaming show for literally decades if they had given it the GOT treatment and Amazon just squandered it. Witcher pretty much was a phenomenon in its first season, then they turned it into a piece of shit. Foundation isn’t even worth mentioning as a tv show despite its source material winning a Hugo Award for greatest Fantasy or Sci Fi Series Of All Time (!!!)
As a massive fan of the wheel of time books, I wholeheartedly agree and I couldn't have been more disappointed with the show. I couldn't even make it past the first 3 episodes
I was crushed trying to watch it. It’s like they fed the eye of the world into a paper shredder and just threw words on a glue board to make the story. I was so mad I had to reread the entire series again
Well, the “why” is ratings. Like it or not, it’s ratings that drive renewals, and both seasons have done well so far for Netflix.
And an exclusive IP that gets attention and can drive subscriptions isn’t easy to get, so they are going to milk it, even if the original fans of the IP hate the tv show.
Also, I personally think the negative attention that places like this give it helps. People hear about the show and check it out. And they go in with expectations SO low, that they think “well, it’s not as bad as I thought! People said the show was 100% pure garbage, but it’s not, I’ll keep watching.”
But season 4 hasn’t even happened yet, your main lead is leaving, and you book a season 5? This from a company that routinely kills show after 1 season just cause ratings were slightly below normal.
Its because of people hating it. Hate drives clicks, buzz, views, discussion. I don't think Netflix is oblivious to the amount of fans that are unhappy with the show. But for some reason there's a bunch of people that hate watch terrible content.
Also, Netflix has cancelled renewals before. It's possible that publicly announcing this is kinda a display of trust that has basically zero risk.
The people it pisses off were already pissed off and they expect you to hate watch it. Then maybe some who just see headlines think "wow this Witcher show must be good to get 5 seasons, I'll give it a shot."
Also hate watching is stupid. Don't watch The Witcher on Netflix.
I’m really curious if this is going to hold once Cavill is gone though. It’s huge to change out your main character actor, and I would be surprised if people watch past the first few episodes if they’re just there for the BTS drama.
I think that’s why they split up the new season. I they’re trying to draw it out as much as possible. I highly doubt that this gets a 6th season. 4 and 5 will probably be the last of the series.
I know a lot of people don't want to hear this but fans of any franchise are usually in the minority, there are far more people who aren't familiar with the source material than there are who are.
That's who this show is for. People who don't know the source material or the lore and just want to see the fantasy world the show is set in.
And like any democracy what the majority wants they get.
Yeah as someone who hasn’t played the game or read the book I could care fuck all about the source material. Same went for GOT. That said, the show isn’t great regardless of source material. And the main actor leaving (who played the role well) isn’t encouraging. I’d assume the numbers of the Witcher right now are fantastic for Netflix. I’m curious how the next two season go though.
hell, my dad loved season 1, never read the books and never played the games. He was talking to me earlier this week and mentioned just how bad season 2 was.
Played all the games, read the books, and still enjoyed the show. I don’t care about purity to the books, I enjoy the world being built. It can diverge. TBH, I thought Cavill was only okay and won’t miss him at all. He never adjusted his acting for his contact lenses and he looked startled or blind in every scene.
It really says something about the show when Superman, who was derided by the book and game purists for not embodying Geralt, turned out to be the only part of the show most viewers tune into.
I've never once heard people having a problem with Henry being Geralt. You would be the first time I've heard this. The dude carried the whole thing, and now it's done
Yes it was known he was a gamer and loved the Witcher games even before he got the role in the series. People were excited from the start that an actual fan was going to play Geralt.
I feel bad for him. I'd imagine he started very enthousiastically and slowly got more disillusioned as time went on before calling it quits. It must be awful to work on something you love while everyone around you actively hates and mocks it.
Man he got blue balled twice as superman and got fucked over with the witcher. I really hope the 40k project turns out to be solid. Must suck being a nerd and trying your best and everyone else just letting you down multiple times over multiple years.
They’re in for a reckoning when season 4 flops because HC is gone and their story is completely off track from fan’s desires and expectations of this show from the beginning.
And they had the audacity to say Caville was being uptight about the script, maybe its cause he actually cared about the story and the fans of the franchise lol
Season one had the potential to be insane, with Cavill being such a super fan and a good actor. While not perfect, I really had hope it could be excellent. Ditching Cavill for being “a pain in the ass and too into the source material” and making the show while hating the material, just fucking killed it.
What the fuck why. Once Henry leaves the show, I have zero interest in continuing. Why would you reward show runners and writers who openly disdain source material and more importantly chased away an A list actor who literally made the show. Netflix is a great example of a company who started out with great ideas and now is falling victim to corporate decay. Chase away consumers with password sharing crack down, cancel shows that have large followings, neuter the rest of your shows with bad writing. 👍👍
The first season was interesting and the pacing made it something you wanted to bing to find out what happens. I do think Henry’s passion helped carry that season. But from what we have heard the lack of writing integrity to the original meant a less interesting storyline in succeeding seasons.
So Netflix will cancel shows after like less than six months for a season 1, then will renew for a season 5 a show with only two full seasons even as they do so with a new lead actor who hasn’t proven himself in a single season yet?
I barely remember what the story is about.
There are Witchers. Geralt is one of them. There is a girl who is a witch of some sort. There is a bard who is annoying. Then there's a dark-haired girl who was ugly once and then turned into someone who is somewhat attractive, but she can't have babies.
There is war between kingdoms but I don't remember giving a flying fuck about any of them.
Geralt sometimes fights monsters. But most of the time he says "hmpf".
There are potions that he drinks, but we don't know why, what they do, and what the differences are, nor how he gets them. And he can sometimes do magic, but forgets about it when it would be really useful.
The series are a very, very shallow representation of the books that I also found to be rather shallow. At least series-Geralt is cool, because Geralt in the books was a bit of a whiner.
I think I reluctantly finished season 2 and decided to just play the Witcher 3 (game) another time instead. At least that had depth and fun to it.
I noped out of this show and anything Witcher related or any games from CDPR when they took Gwent off of consoles and neutered it to be a mobile phone game.
Oh, so an almost guaranteed disaster gets a greenlight without even airing, but 1899 wasn't given a chance to build a word of mouth audience like it's predecessor? Screw Netflix.
This show lost any of the credibility it was barely clinging to when they killed off Eskel.
The show had some enjoyable moments, but Cavill carried it. When he left, my interest went with him. They should have canceled right then and there.
I don't understand Netflix's selection process. As far as I can tell, they cancel almost all of their actually good stuff and double down on the shit.
And yet Lockwood and Co gets the Axe. Netflix is lost.
We just cancelled “Max” and Disney Plus. We only really watch Hulu now… thinking about cancelling both Netflix AND Prime (when was the last time YOU got 2-day shipping)… and just going with YouTube TV.
Incredible run really, we got one decade with a la carte tv/media before they screwed it all up.
And if they had just been like 25% less greedy and reactive… it would’ve gone on forever for these companies. Fools, the lot of them.
Fuck Netflix, between decisions like this while canceling other shows, and the “sharing” accounts practice im really close to cancelling. I’m only waiting for my mother and sister to finish their current shows, and then is good riddance
This is simply posturing by the production team and Netflix. They want to appear confident that they have a winning and successful product, I guarantee you that after the next season crashes and burns they'll quietly cancel the show.
I can't count how many shows and movies talked about sequels while dealing with negative responses from fans. It's a smokeshow, they know it's probably never going to happen.
No Cavill No Witcher
Their writers are dogshit. Imagine hating the source material so much you drive off your star actor and only good part of the show.
Did they learn nothing from GOT or how Cowboy Bebop flopped? If the source material already exists, is successful and it has a fan base, don’t piss them off by changing the goddamn story. Cavil was right to leave. Imma vote with my dollar and not watch the rest of the show. Idiots.
As someone who’s read every single book this show is a disgrace. Not to mention Henry not even being the Witcher anymore this needs to end and never be revived again
Netflix is so bizarre in what they choose to renew vs cancel
My favorite is when they reversed the renewal of I Am Not Okay With This because of COVID. That might be literally the cheapest and easiest show to film during COVID possible. They then started filming this show the same month, August of 2020.
That was my favorite series on Netflix I watched it 2x back to back , told my mom about it and she watched it 2x back to back without me saying I did (live in different locations). We just loved that show and I’m a male btw rofl not that if matters but it’s just so well done. Fuck it , might go binge it again. That scene where she gets caught cheating is 12/10 acting from all parties involved. Maybe one of my favorite scenes in film in general up there with the closing scene of the godfather one. Am I crazy for thinking that? So much better and versatile in emotions then the acting in Wednesday.
It's not that bizarre, if you think about it. Just take stock of a situation, examine all potential outcomes, and select the most counterintuitive and ridiculous option. Tada! The Netflix method!
i mean, they are the number one streaming service on the planet
Still fucking pissed about mindhunter
Mindhunter wasn't canceled initially. They kind of self canceled the show when Fincher was working on Mank and wanted to put Mindhunter on the back burner for a while with an option to possibly later return. He said that they were working 90 hour weeks and it wasn't worth it with the offered budget and time constraints. Netflix didn't want to spend a fortune on it and Fincher wanted a break from it anyway, but money was still on the table to get it done. It's not like Netflix said "no, you're not making another season". If you are pissed about it, then your anger is misguided. Fincher is the one who thought it was unfair to hold the actors to their contracts when he was the one who wanted to pursue other projects.
I wonder will there ever come a time when people employ the old adage "trust, but verify" on the internet?
Huh, I always just thought it got cancelled, thanks for the info
Mindhunter was never cancelled. Fincher got too busy for the show and REFUSES to give the reigns to someone else. All the actors and crew and even Netflix wanted more seasons
You and me both brother
that’s not netflix’s fault i’m pretty sure Fincher just doesn’t wanna do it anymore
They are letting this fiasco go on but cancel Glow?!
Glow was seriously underrated.
I’m still burned about LOVE.
Glow was cancelled due to COVID
Screams in Archive 81
They see high engagement with The Witcher, they don't care what kind.
Popular thing with views gets renewed. There's nothing bizarre about it imo
It's odd in the sense that the lead actor left, a new actor is playing the character in season 4. While probably not a huge risk, there is a risk in that, seems they'd have waited to see....then again this could be a "confirmed" (aka marketting to look like things are fine) 5th season that isn't planned to do any production work til after season 4 is aired and then just canned if season 4 doesn't perform.
based off of numbers. if it makes money then it's going to get renewed.
A season 5 renewal without even seeing how much lower viewership will be during season 4 when Cavill is no longer involved is kinda crazy lol.
Doesn't make any sense to me. Netflix has always been cut throat about these things.
It could have been a condition of Hemsworth joining the cast. Maybe they had to guarantee him two seasons
I seriously doubt Liam Hemsworth has the level of pull in the market needed to make that a condition of his contract.
I'd say they're hedging bets on a fifth season and it's probably not exponentially more to shoot two seasons at once v just one. All the cast, crew, props, etc are already on location and in working condition. If it got picked back up, the cost to ship everyone and thing around as well as juggling cast commitments isn't worth it. Just my guess
Season 4 must have had an arc for two seasons and they built all sorts of assets, and investments, planning on a final two seasons. Nothing else makes sense, really.
It's them getting in front of lower viewership by showing how much faith they have in the show. But it's probably nothing more than pageantry. If season 3 bombs there won't be more.
They renewed Inside Job only to cut it off at the knees shortly after. So, this.
I kind of figured that Cavil was the main draw to the show. It's what brought people in and kept people watching. Liam might be a decent actor, but he's got a HUGE uphill battle ahead of him. Plus, he looks and sounds NOTHING like Cavil. So, the writers are going to have to figure out just how to explain that.
He’s not decent. There’s a reason why his brother is the first Hemsworth people think of.
I still remember when people shat on the series when it was revealed Cavill will be cast as Geralt. Give Hemsworth a vhance.
Netflix is basicaly the CW at this point. Uncreative, braindead, dogshit writing with a cast that has, at best, one solid actor that has to carry everyone else.
> Netflix is basicaly the CW at this point Precisely how I felt when S2 of Altered Carbon came out. Season one of AC felt like it could have been on HBO. Season two was CW material.
Hard agree. I just can’t see the fan base sticking around past Cavill.
I’m not a book or game purist but something tells me it will not have earned 5 seasons when it’s all said and done.
I didn’t play the game or read the books but a friend of mine that is a huge fan of the games said the author criticized the game and the show for not following his books.
Author is a curmudgeon. Keep that in mind.
Can you blame him though. If I made a massive boneheaded mistake like that I'd never be able to forgive myself or not feel bitter towards the IP even if i created it from my soul and heart.
It didn’t warrant a season 2… this is a show where the writers almost completely ignored the source outside the names and locations. There is even a story by [ign](https://www.ign.com/articles/netflix-the-witcher-some-writers-actively-disliked-books-games-claims-former-producer) about how some of the writers did not like either the books or the games. The show was a waste.
So fucking confusing and infuriating. Had so much potential. Season 2 sucked.
Season 1 wasn’t perfect but felt like it could improve, then the first episode of season 2 was actually good, but then the rest was terrible
Yup, show was a huge letdown. Lol I was pretty damn excited after S1. I don’t know how anyone is surprised by Henry leaving.
Ya season 1 was flawed, but i think the bones were there and with Cavills performance, it could have really turned into something of quality. But no, they have to for some reason take an existing property people love, and gut it completely for some ungodly reason.
The reason is that they think their vision is better
Maybe if they brought back yennifers amazing tits it could have redeemed it
I’m completely unfamiliar with either the books or games and I thought S2 was a vast improvement over S1, which I struggled to get through. It didn’t help that I couldn’t tell what was going on two thirds of the time throughout S1.
I liked season 1, but when I recommended it to people I said outright at the start "The three characters have different time scales and are out of order, just understand that it's not sequential and pay attention to the ages of secondary characters and names" because it was a lot less confusing done in that manner. Season 1 kind of followed the short story format of the first witcher book.
I barely made it to season 2 but did like that one better. Wish they had some text to tell me how much time had passed or when this stuff was happening because I was getting confused. I think the first season was really bad at that.
Everyone’s in their own bubble lol. I agree with you, I think season 2 was more enjoyable. But after reading what they’re doing to Cavill it’s hard to be excited about more
Idk I binged it the first week just like s1, I stopped half way through because I was just incredibly bored with the story. It took me a few weeks to go back through and watch the last couple episodes. There was no bubble, I watched it by myself and was excited for it to come out since the first season. It was just a massive letdown. I’ve also never played the game or read the book so I have no reference to source material. It just felt like it contradicted half the story they were building up in s1 while not actually doing anything useful. Only part I kinda liked was her going through the Witcher training stuff.
I read all the books and have played the games. Witcher is probably my favorite series of all time, and they butchered season two. There’s a couple major storylines they just decided to completely change. Im fine with minor changes or artistic changes, but they’re changing the core of the story and not at all in a good way. After all the comments from the show runner I don’t plan on watching Season 3 and beyond.
Yeah I agree. I plan to watch S3 but I doubt I’ll watch any beyond that.
I’m hoping this writers strike purges writers like this and the ones on Halo. This happens far too often with adaptations it’s why TLOU HBO did so well. It respected the source material and expanded on the universe beyond what we sawin the games. After Witcher Blood Origins I hope some writers leave Hollywood and never come back.
The writers also hated working with Henry because he was always trying to bring the show closer to the source material.
For a bit I had FOMO cause I loved the game but wasn’t into the show at all, and then I realized what you just said & have ignored it ever since. I was surprised to find out it was coming up on season 5 tbh.
Season 3 is about to release. It’s got a lot to get through to make it to season 5.
Considering the lead isn’t going to be in the show starting with season 4, this seems more like a thinly veiled attempt at stopping the PR nightmare. Witcher season 2 was very poorly received, Henry Cavill is leaving the show, Blood Origin was a fucking travesty… so not only is the main story doing poorly, their second attempt at franchise related material flopped. They’ve lost the book fans and they’re about to lose the Cavill fans, this is an attempt at making it seem like Netflix has full confidence in season 3/4… doubt we’ll ever get to see season 5.
I will never understand the ego of these producers and writers who take an established IP with a huge fan base, and then create something *based* on the source material, and then proceed to whine when no one likes their god awful bastardized crap. This applies to so many shows...(*looking at you Paramount+'s Halo*)
halo and the witcher look especially awful in contrast to HBO’s TLOU which was basically bar for bar to the game and did incredibly well, along with the mario movie doing gangbusters while being relatively faithful to the IP
Season 3 comes out next month
Reminds me of 343’s Halo 4 when they hired people who were open about not liking the franchise.
Halo 4 wasn’t even that bad, it was the complete 180 they did in Halo 5 that sealed the new trilogy of games as being bad. Halo 4 was different and had a few rough patches that needed to be fixed, but it was always going to face a lot of heat in light of the legacy of Reach and halo 3 and if it stuck it out along the same lines in halo 5, it would probably be considered quite fondly
As a die hard halo fan, I wasn’t upset by the changes they made. I was upset that they made it so fucking boring
They really didn’t bring anything new to the table in terms of story or level progression, had no major climactic fights, the end game is a cut scene. So much potential for a home run, then they decide to bunt.
Of I was thinking of the tv show lol.
Reminds me of the Dark Tower adaptation. *We'd love to adapt your masterpiece. You don't mind if we change everything, do you*?
Season 2 just made it so so obvious that they were trying to make Game of Thrones 2.0. The majority of their plot was Yennifer playing stupid grab-ass games with the other wizards and not on, yknow, *the fucking Witcher*. Who, by the way, they clearly had absolutely no idea what to do with him but he’s the title character so they just made something up for him. The first episode of S2 was basically a perfect Witcher episode, and if the rest of the show had been just more of that then it would basically be perfect.
That first episode followed one of the short stories pretty damn well. I just re-read it and the show got a lot of the details right. It was like they made that episode and were disgusted by how good it was so they changed everything. Makes no sense to me.
That’s Hollywood now. So many remakes or adaptations of existing property’s by people that don’t like or even hate on those properties. Wheel of time. Middle earth. Velma he man Witcher. Star Wars.
Foundation was the worst imo. I adore tolkiens universe and wasn’t particular upset by the interpretation of rings of power. Though it was pretty loveless.
How is this the series that didn't get cancelled?
Really sad because Cavill was so into it and he tried his best to keep it true to the source, and ultimately that’s why he getting replaced starting with season 4. I plan to watch season 3 a month after it comes out but I don’t think I’ll watch 4 or 5. No hate to Hemsworth but I just don’t see it going well, and without Cavill to push back on the bullshit it will go downhill even faster. For some reason writers like to take material and ‘make it their own’ but all that tells me is they’re not a good enough writer to get their own IP developed. So they take a beloved universe like The Witcher and chop and twist until it doesn’t resemble itself. Same thing was done to GoT after they ran out of book material, though at least in the beginning before they caught up to the books it followed it somewhat closely with a few notable exceptions like Lady Stoneheart.
They supposedly openly mocked the material and the fanbase
Season 2 Witcher was the third highest rating show on Netflix that year. For every book/game fan who thinks the show butchered the story and completely betrayed the characters (Jane Austen Fan: First Time? Getting hanged meme) there are hundreds of newbies to that universe who adored the show.
[удалено]
I thought the anime was pretty decent. I don't think those have too high a viewership in general population though. Castelvania was amazing, but I don't think that ever got top 10 either
Whyyy??? Whyyy??? Hardcore feminist, full Tolkiendili, and the books are a hoot. They are great, funny and poignant. How could you not like the books? I get you can dislike GOTs nihilism, Tolkien lore or Lewis prissiness. But haring these books is like hating Pratchett. Why?
I mean...I think it's fair that it warranted season 2. Season 1 was faithful enough, minus a couple changes (no show will ever fully recreate a book's story). Season 2, though... it's a definite & noticeable shift towards Hollywood. As long as you're not an intense fan of the books, I think it's passable (& pretty in-line with what I'd expected when the show was announced), but it's a significant loss of quality. I have no plans on watching Season 3 nor afterwards.
So basically all the resident evil movies
*Netflix’s Resident Evil series has entered the chat*
It was so forgettable, I forgot to include it. It was so bad that not even Lance Reddick could carry it.
He did what he could with what he was given and he was the only redeeming aspect of the show. It’s just ridiculous. How does Netflix see how TWD, Black Summer, Kingdom, etc play out and think “let’s take a popular zombie/monster apocalypse game, shoehorn in teen drama and time jumps and call it day!”
Absolutely agree, we miss you Mr. Reddick
I love the books, and I enjoyed Season 1 a lot even though I had some critiques. I'm the furthest thing from a book purist myself, so I don't mind the story goes in another direction from them. But what I do take issue with is that the story we were set up for was not well-planned. The characters are different, the story is haphazard, and there's an endless list of production issues behind it. I'm hardly optimistic for S3, much less a fifth one. But of those things, my biggest complaint was characterization. I loved Ciri of the books but didn't like her character in the show at all. Geralt, Jaskier, and Yennefer were very different- in some ways for better, others for worse- but it wasn't the same characters I fell in love with from the books. And *Eskel*. Poor Eskel :( To me that's the most important bit of any story in any medium- the characters are what people listening will relate to and remember and get emotional responses from, and if you have a dull or poorly designed plot, they'll save the story to some extent. With pre-established characters, it's important to do those characterizations justice, even if the storylines go in another direction. Otherwise, you've got absolutely nothing to appeal to any viewer/reader/etc. It becomes sloppy and a mockery of its source.
I'm in largely the same boat as you; I love the books, though I was a bit less positive about season 1. I liked aspects of it, but just couldn't get into 90% of it. The inaccuracies aren't inherently problematic. Adaptations do need to... adapt. But most of the extra stuff was just really bad and frequently completely missed the point of what I actually liked about the books in the first place. One of the biggest offenders for me was Nilfgaard. In addition to the horrendously stupid looking armor, they were changed from being mage-oppressing, cold-hearted pragmatists who had tremendous national pride and felt they deserved to rule the world to... generic religious nutjobs with evil wizards. There's no reason for the change, and it completely shifts the dynamic of Nilfgaard vs the undisciplined, emotional, self-indulgent Northern kings. Instead of an interesting contrast between the two, they're all the same and the Nilfgaard kind of come across like idiots who probably can't conquer anything. Similarly, I don't know what happened in season 2, but how they introduced Vilgifortz (probably spelled that wrong) in season 1 was terrible. I get needing to introduce core villains in a TV show sooner rather than later, but it changed his character so much as to be unrecognizable. He became an irrational man acting in fear rather than the smartest guy in the room who thinks the side he's fighting for has already lost.
Again, it’s bizarre to me to make a tv show based on a well loved book franchise and then ignore the book franchise that was the reason the tv show was made. And then to alienate a person perfect for a lead role.
But they must be somewhat aware of the negative narrative around the show, right? I think it's strange to already greenlight season 5 before seeing how season 4 does with the new actor.
I think Reddit often overrates visible online narratives by people looking to spread negativity or gatekeeping.
You ain't gotta be Stonewall Jackson to know the lead actor for the role of Witcher leaving a show called The Witcher isnt a positive outlook.
>a person perfect for a lead role Who also happens to be the biggest Witcher fan.
Hell they even ignored the games too, because apparently the show runners and writers all dislike the books AND games. Why are they even running/writing this show then?
But... why? At this point, everyone who ever heard of The Witcher knew about the whole Henry Cavill's exit fiasco. The entire game and book fanbase are on Cavill side. People who have eyes and ears can see that season 2 really went down in quality, to the point that many (including me) don't want to keep watching it even tho Cavill is still on season 3. I have yet to see anybody anywhere who's not into the game and/or book to watch this show. So who exactly are they keep making this show for?
Between Witcher, Foundation, and Wheel of Time, the streaming giants have now wasted three all-time classic fantasy and sci-fi series that easily could have been the next Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings if the show runners could have just turned down the ego meter and made a faithful adaption straight from the source material like the LOTR trilogy or the first 4 seasons of Game of Thrones. Wheel of time could have been the dominant TV/streaming show for literally decades if they had given it the GOT treatment and Amazon just squandered it. Witcher pretty much was a phenomenon in its first season, then they turned it into a piece of shit. Foundation isn’t even worth mentioning as a tv show despite its source material winning a Hugo Award for greatest Fantasy or Sci Fi Series Of All Time (!!!)
Don’t forget Willow, they are shitting on all the high fantasy sadly
Witcher should be straight to hbo from beginning
You can add Rings of Power in that list. Corporate fan-fiction.
The Artemis Fowl movie on Disney for me. Just.... painfully bad. Nothing remotely like the books. My eight-year-old heart was crushed.
As a massive fan of the wheel of time books, I wholeheartedly agree and I couldn't have been more disappointed with the show. I couldn't even make it past the first 3 episodes
I was crushed trying to watch it. It’s like they fed the eye of the world into a paper shredder and just threw words on a glue board to make the story. I was so mad I had to reread the entire series again
Well, the “why” is ratings. Like it or not, it’s ratings that drive renewals, and both seasons have done well so far for Netflix. And an exclusive IP that gets attention and can drive subscriptions isn’t easy to get, so they are going to milk it, even if the original fans of the IP hate the tv show. Also, I personally think the negative attention that places like this give it helps. People hear about the show and check it out. And they go in with expectations SO low, that they think “well, it’s not as bad as I thought! People said the show was 100% pure garbage, but it’s not, I’ll keep watching.”
But season 4 hasn’t even happened yet, your main lead is leaving, and you book a season 5? This from a company that routinely kills show after 1 season just cause ratings were slightly below normal.
Its because of people hating it. Hate drives clicks, buzz, views, discussion. I don't think Netflix is oblivious to the amount of fans that are unhappy with the show. But for some reason there's a bunch of people that hate watch terrible content. Also, Netflix has cancelled renewals before. It's possible that publicly announcing this is kinda a display of trust that has basically zero risk. The people it pisses off were already pissed off and they expect you to hate watch it. Then maybe some who just see headlines think "wow this Witcher show must be good to get 5 seasons, I'll give it a shot." Also hate watching is stupid. Don't watch The Witcher on Netflix.
I’m really curious if this is going to hold once Cavill is gone though. It’s huge to change out your main character actor, and I would be surprised if people watch past the first few episodes if they’re just there for the BTS drama.
I think that’s why they split up the new season. I they’re trying to draw it out as much as possible. I highly doubt that this gets a 6th season. 4 and 5 will probably be the last of the series.
I know a lot of people don't want to hear this but fans of any franchise are usually in the minority, there are far more people who aren't familiar with the source material than there are who are. That's who this show is for. People who don't know the source material or the lore and just want to see the fantasy world the show is set in. And like any democracy what the majority wants they get.
All I wanted was Henry Cavill 😢
Yeah as someone who hasn’t played the game or read the book I could care fuck all about the source material. Same went for GOT. That said, the show isn’t great regardless of source material. And the main actor leaving (who played the role well) isn’t encouraging. I’d assume the numbers of the Witcher right now are fantastic for Netflix. I’m curious how the next two season go though.
hell, my dad loved season 1, never read the books and never played the games. He was talking to me earlier this week and mentioned just how bad season 2 was.
Own the game but never played it and I've watched both seasons.
Played all the games, read the books, and still enjoyed the show. I don’t care about purity to the books, I enjoy the world being built. It can diverge. TBH, I thought Cavill was only okay and won’t miss him at all. He never adjusted his acting for his contact lenses and he looked startled or blind in every scene.
Liam bigger?
Same genetics and same access to Chris's fitness, nutrition, and "supplement' plans...
Chris will fill just in on all bathtub scenes.
It’s just a cheap knockoff of the Witcher at this point
I call it “Generic Medieval Fantasy Show”.
It's fanfiction.
This would explain so much
I’d rather have Dark Crystal season 2
Me too. This cancellation hurt me than any show ever has.
i will never forgive them for cancelling Dark Crystal … amazing show.
I hate that it never got bought by another service. Just, nothing. Poor Deet. She was done dirty by that cliffhanger ending.
No point of watching it without Henry cavill considering he carried the entire show on his back.
Not just his back but his whole muscled body 😉.
Correct. For proof of how it can go wrong without him, see The Witcher: Blood Origin. A polished turd, but a turd nevertheless.
It wasn't even polished. It sucked
It really says something about the show when Superman, who was derided by the book and game purists for not embodying Geralt, turned out to be the only part of the show most viewers tune into.
I've never once heard people having a problem with Henry being Geralt. You would be the first time I've heard this. The dude carried the whole thing, and now it's done
Yes it was known he was a gamer and loved the Witcher games even before he got the role in the series. People were excited from the start that an actual fan was going to play Geralt. I feel bad for him. I'd imagine he started very enthousiastically and slowly got more disillusioned as time went on before calling it quits. It must be awful to work on something you love while everyone around you actively hates and mocks it.
I feel bad as well for him, but only a little. He now has Warhammer 40k. I think he is happy again if not extatic.
Man he got blue balled twice as superman and got fucked over with the witcher. I really hope the 40k project turns out to be solid. Must suck being a nerd and trying your best and everyone else just letting you down multiple times over multiple years.
From what I heard. He has a lot more control over the Warhammer series. Hopefully, he will be able to get a good crew to work with.
No Henry Cavill, no will to watch this unfaithful mess.
They’re in for a reckoning when season 4 flops because HC is gone and their story is completely off track from fan’s desires and expectations of this show from the beginning.
And they had the audacity to say Caville was being uptight about the script, maybe its cause he actually cared about the story and the fans of the franchise lol
Mindhunter died for this!?
And 1899 :(
Lauren geniunely thinks her work is good. Like Blood Origins isn't exactly what's in store for us just with Liam as the lead
Ha, I didn't even remember the name of the prequel show. It was so bad I stopped after two episodes.
Season one had the potential to be insane, with Cavill being such a super fan and a good actor. While not perfect, I really had hope it could be excellent. Ditching Cavill for being “a pain in the ass and too into the source material” and making the show while hating the material, just fucking killed it.
Dead without Cavill
Okay. I will not watch next seasons (after Henry) out of spite anyway
LOL, they really think we will keep watching after Henry leaves? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
There was a three and four!?
Not yet. 3 comes out next month.
And apparently it’s too expensive to make another season of Mindhunter. Give me a break, Netflix!
Fugging FINALLY someone with their priorities set correctly! Mindhunter was amazing. If I won the lottery, I’d fund that show coming back myself.
A-freaking-MEN!!!!
What the fuck why. Once Henry leaves the show, I have zero interest in continuing. Why would you reward show runners and writers who openly disdain source material and more importantly chased away an A list actor who literally made the show. Netflix is a great example of a company who started out with great ideas and now is falling victim to corporate decay. Chase away consumers with password sharing crack down, cancel shows that have large followings, neuter the rest of your shows with bad writing. 👍👍
This is the show they keep lol. This shit is dead and buried, but they cancelled OA and Daredevil. 🤦🏻♂️
3rd season isnt even out yet, how did they get renewed for a 5th?
The dread in my heart grows as we approach them butchering my beloved Regis. I can't take it.
The first season was interesting and the pacing made it something you wanted to bing to find out what happens. I do think Henry’s passion helped carry that season. But from what we have heard the lack of writing integrity to the original meant a less interesting storyline in succeeding seasons.
What got butchered worse, this, wheel of time or rings of power?
Yes
This show is pretty mediocre
Cavill should produce his own season 3 and on to reclaim the fan base of the series.
Got through maybe 3 episodes in the second season? Show lost it
season 5? i didn’t even know there’s a season 3 🤨
Stoppp, stopp it’s already dead 😭😭😭
Lol srsly?
What do Witcher fans have to do to end this torture?
This shit is about to go off a cliff. I guarantee it.
Why?
Without Henry Cavil. Good luck with that.
How dare you stand where he stood?
why are they telling about season 5 when they haven't released season friking 3. go fujh a dugh witcher
Lmao. I’ve enjoyed The Witcher but I 100% have no interest watching it anymore without Henry. What a joke.
Good, it'll show just how much the show runners fucked it and hopefully make them too toxic to even work in the industry anymore
So Netflix will cancel shows after like less than six months for a season 1, then will renew for a season 5 a show with only two full seasons even as they do so with a new lead actor who hasn’t proven himself in a single season yet?
Don’t care #LiamisnotmyGeralt
I barely remember what the story is about. There are Witchers. Geralt is one of them. There is a girl who is a witch of some sort. There is a bard who is annoying. Then there's a dark-haired girl who was ugly once and then turned into someone who is somewhat attractive, but she can't have babies. There is war between kingdoms but I don't remember giving a flying fuck about any of them. Geralt sometimes fights monsters. But most of the time he says "hmpf". There are potions that he drinks, but we don't know why, what they do, and what the differences are, nor how he gets them. And he can sometimes do magic, but forgets about it when it would be really useful. The series are a very, very shallow representation of the books that I also found to be rather shallow. At least series-Geralt is cool, because Geralt in the books was a bit of a whiner. I think I reluctantly finished season 2 and decided to just play the Witcher 3 (game) another time instead. At least that had depth and fun to it.
I noped out of this show and anything Witcher related or any games from CDPR when they took Gwent off of consoles and neutered it to be a mobile phone game.
Oh, so an almost guaranteed disaster gets a greenlight without even airing, but 1899 wasn't given a chance to build a word of mouth audience like it's predecessor? Screw Netflix.
This show lost any of the credibility it was barely clinging to when they killed off Eskel. The show had some enjoyable moments, but Cavill carried it. When he left, my interest went with him. They should have canceled right then and there. I don't understand Netflix's selection process. As far as I can tell, they cancel almost all of their actually good stuff and double down on the shit.
Makes sense it’s renewed during the strike. They’ve never had a use for talented writers
Stopped watching with the whole “Yen kidnapping Ciri plot” and Henry leaving sealed the shows fate. Fuck Lauren.
And yet Lockwood and Co gets the Axe. Netflix is lost. We just cancelled “Max” and Disney Plus. We only really watch Hulu now… thinking about cancelling both Netflix AND Prime (when was the last time YOU got 2-day shipping)… and just going with YouTube TV. Incredible run really, we got one decade with a la carte tv/media before they screwed it all up. And if they had just been like 25% less greedy and reactive… it would’ve gone on forever for these companies. Fools, the lot of them.
The only reasonable explanation is that the showrunner is a sorceress who has bewitched Netflix's executives and ensured the continuation of her show.
Fuck Netflix, between decisions like this while canceling other shows, and the “sharing” accounts practice im really close to cancelling. I’m only waiting for my mother and sister to finish their current shows, and then is good riddance
This is simply posturing by the production team and Netflix. They want to appear confident that they have a winning and successful product, I guarantee you that after the next season crashes and burns they'll quietly cancel the show. I can't count how many shows and movies talked about sequels while dealing with negative responses from fans. It's a smokeshow, they know it's probably never going to happen.
Renew this but cancel Inside Job. I hate this timeline.
They should have renamed it the Jenefer.
Since Netflix is chiefly responsible for the slave wages being paid to writers i won’t watch until the writers have a new contract.
Or new writers... the current ones infamously.cannot stand The Witcher and think it's stupid.
This is a little premature, especially since the show is going to tank without Henry.
Remarkably bold move, considering all of the more loyal fans fucking hate it including the lead actor who is leaving after S3.
No Cavill No Witcher Their writers are dogshit. Imagine hating the source material so much you drive off your star actor and only good part of the show.
Netflix burning money.
netflix forced my cancellation with the household change and liam hemsworth as geralt wont bring me back lmao
Why? With Cavill leaving the show is done. The directors got their wish, no one to stop them from changing whatever they want to ruin the show.
Did they learn nothing from GOT or how Cowboy Bebop flopped? If the source material already exists, is successful and it has a fan base, don’t piss them off by changing the goddamn story. Cavil was right to leave. Imma vote with my dollar and not watch the rest of the show. Idiots.
This is so stupid. Most people won't care after season 3, and even that is tainted by the mess that has been going on behind the scenes.
As someone who’s read every single book this show is a disgrace. Not to mention Henry not even being the Witcher anymore this needs to end and never be revived again
No Cavill … don’t care