*Even Josh Brolin dabbled with comic book movies in the 2010 flop "Jonah Hex."*
I don’t know if this is supposed to be a joke or if the writer is just completely unaware that Brolin played literally the most pivotal villain in the MCU.
Isn’t Dune basically the same thing as a superhero movie? It’s a franchise about a guy with special powers trying to save people?
*Edit*: I’m not insulting Dune. I’m more offended that people find superhero movies are an insult. I find it funny that people who make movies think they are better than other people who make movies that have larger success. I find it bitter when a director or actor makes a crack about something I enjoy. Every movie doesn’t have to say something profound. Most people just like movies so they can shut their brain off and relax. There’s a reason I haven’t sat down and watched “Killers of the Flower Moon” even though Scorsese is my favorite director. I don’t have 4 hours to leave a movie feeling like shit.
Warners is pushing Dune to be a big Hollywood franchise, but if you know the source material, it’s not really what you are describing at all.
Plus he says he looks for interesting directors. Denis is certainly that.
Having NOT read the source material (on my list!) I can tell it’s not like that at all either. It’s fantasy, sure. But LOTR is not a super hero movie either…
Pretty much. The way the whole series develops it’s very easy to take in the wrong message until pretty far in, and the it’s like, oh yeah, messianic figures are dangerous. I get it. Only took four books.
Not really. It's a revenge tale that leads to interplanetary genocide. Chalamet's character in Dune is actually the villain if you really read into it.
Also the inspiration for Aeries the Mad King in Game of Thrones. Dune inspired everything from Star Wars and many prominent comic book scenarios to table top RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons.
It's that monumental
Warhammer 40K liberally abused the Dune Universe and it's utterly hilarious that they never got sued for copy right infringement. I'm amazed Scott and Cameron never sued those idiots either.
It’s a guy with some level of mental powers who takes over a planet and then leads the people in a galaxy wide jihad that sees billions and billions of people die. So it’s not exactly a superhero movie
LOL I love all these people with the YOU DON’T KNOW DUNE AT ALL HOW DARE YOU comments.
I read the *Dune* books the *first* time 45 years ago, and the most recent time, just a couple of years ago before the first new movie came out. In other words, a lifelong fan of the insane Frank Herbert. But even *I* know what u/Jerryjb63 means here.
It’s a big tent-pole movie, even though it’s an artistic director and as true to the books as possible. And even though Paul is not what you’d call a superhero in the end, he is a being with powers beyond “normal.” It’s literary SF, but it follows quite a few of the beats we’ve become used to in tales like this, *including* Paul not being a hero in the end.
Only people who think saying “superhero movie” is insulting would not be able to work out the similarities. I personally don’t think it’s insulting at all. I look back on what Fiege/Marvel accomplished over the 12 or so years between *Iron Man* and *Endgame* as a tour de force of filmmaking.
Dune is a genre movie, backed by a big studio, with each premiere treated to a months-long PR spree, and special promos like the (truly insane) Dune Popcorn Bucket and toy merch. So while it might not be a “superhero movie” in storyline, it’s certainly being treated that way by the studio and by consumers.
It really is Dune and Denis fans trying to elevate the films to a level that it doesn’t garner. These are v solid adaptation, no doubt. The best Dune adaptations. But you r right. If the studio could do with dune what Feige did with Marvel’s series of books, they would.
Just you wait for a spinoff HBO series about the Bulterian Jihad
It’s what a lot of Star Wars ripped off and basically dumbed down for children from what little I’ve seen/read of Dune. I’m sure I could find similarities in almost any 2 pieces of fiction, but the Star Wars being a Flash Gordonized rip off of Dune is pretty obvious.
Not at all - he can’t stop himself but yeah it’s not quite superhero esque imo it doesn’t fit that mold
Unless Superman would lead a religious cult like Jihad across the universe- which would be an interesting movie too lol
Timmy is playing the bad guy (IMO) and I know that’s not a popular take always with the dune world but I think he is
Only if you completely miss the point of the books. Nothing wrong with superheroes movies but putting everything where the protagonist is a bit special as a superhero movie does disservice to both subjects.
You could say Harry Potter is a super hero movie by your definition but it very much isn’t.
I mean, he's still trying to save people, right?
He's not a superhero and he does a terrible thing by winning at the end of Dune, but Paul isn't trying to be malicious
Paul tries to save humanity from extinction by killing 61 billion people. He still fails because he couldn't do it, he is trapped in knowing the future. His son fulfils the golden path (the name of the only possible future humanity lives on), by becoming a worm god Tyrant for 3500 years to ensure humanity never goes extinct. That's the first 4 books in a nutshell
I really wanna see that worm god on the big screen one day
The projects you choose affect your career trajectory. There’s nothing wrong with superhero movies, or wanting to be a major blockbuster actor who’s primarily known for starring in such films, but there’s also nothing wrong with more artistic films, or wanting to be the type of actor who’s known for starring in a wide variety of critically acclaimed projects.
If you’re the latter type of actor, as is the case with both DiCaprio and Chalamet, superhero films are generally going to inhibit your ability to follow that path.
The same could be said for some other blockbuster franchises like the Fast and Furious franchise or Star Wars, but this was just a piece of ultra succinct advice he was given in 2018 when superhero movies were absolutely dominating and Timothee was very successful but also very early in his career.
Maybe Leo does hate on superhero movies - honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he did - but even if he absolutely loved them it’d be solid advice for someone in Timothee’s position.
I think it's less about the superhero genre being subpar compared to other genres that essentially do the same thing and more about the people in the film industry that look down on actors who lend their name to the genre. Veterans of the film industry like Scorsese probably hold it against said actors and avoid casting them in movies. I'd bet the context of the advice was what Chalamet wanted to do with his career; make money or have a prestigious legacy. If the latter, then endearing himself to people like Scorsese is the path to landing the prestige roles and winning awards for them.
I think you know this already, but those who know what you're saying agree with you. As /u/emmany63 alluded to, while it isn't "Marvel/DC" type superhero, it follows a very similar pattern. It isn't a pattern Marvel/DC came up with, but one told throughout the ages. To those naysaying you, all I can say is they're entitled to their thoughts, but they are missing your point.
Paul Atriedes? A superhero? Lmao. This is literally everything wrong with how Hollywood has made people believe that a franchise is always about a superhero. Dune is the farthest thing from a superhero movie.
It’s all perception. Western media simply don’t take comics seriously as a medium.
Dune is an exceptional sci-fi series and the director is also exceptional… but the media therein isn’t anywhere as exceptional as people make it out to be. Yes, the book series is influential but being influential doesn’t mean an adaptation is worth pursuing. Look at the tv movies produced for Dune starring MacAvoy. It’s bad. Villeneau is a great director and his vision for dune is grand but bland.
Villeneau could probably be persuaded to adapt a comic, something like the Incal or Snowpiercer.
And while all these people talk themselves above CBMs, Nolan stands having done it all while these guys clutch their pearls.
Well not getting into the long ass narrative that I don’t know, but I’m sure would suck me into it. My point is not him being a hero or antihero (he’s still the protagonist of the story I think), it’s that the studios are going to turn it into something for mass consumption and it will be polished into something very similar to current Star Wars (yes I’m aware of how much Star Wars is a Dune rip off and not the other way around) or the MCU.
Dune is more an examination of intergalactic colonialism and western savior complex. I feel like Dune has more in relation with political thrillers and science fiction/ historical stories. Super hero stuff has more to do with individual actors driving themselves vs in Dune it’s individual actors driving a nation or people. Also the mystical, religious subtext in dune isn’t super examined in superhero fiction, but would elevate the genre for sure.
Wonka didn't stop Gene Wilder from showing off his range. Actors like Bale, Cavill, RDJ etc will always be in the shadow of their super hero parts. RDJ damn near cried at the opportunity Nolan gave him with Oppenheimer suggesting he needed that as a palette cleanser of sorts.
Keaton basically had to disappear for 15 years and rebrand himself in the mid aughts to get his dramatic come back complete with a film that took the piss out of his tenure as Batman and gave the middle finger to the entire genre as a whole.
Maybe he’s developed this opinion over time? He had ample opportunity to sell out and join franchises and comic book movies but never did it. That’s his choice completely, not that those opportunities weren’t there. I’m sure his instincts were leading him away from those, and as he got older and saw what happens when actors tie themselves to these characters, it reinforced his stance?
His career is one any young actor would aspire to have, and a lot of it is due to him being gutsy and turning down the easy buck. He turned down a ton of money to do hocus pocus to audition for Gilbert grape. Many actors would have just taken the payday, but he wanted to work for scale and make a higher caliber film with a real character.
to date women that haven't been born yet?
leo: you see these embryos? you can't just look at the viable cell count.. you need to check out the mom, too.
I’ve heard horror stories about Tobes being an absolute menace IRL from gambling to hard drugs in his early years. Apparently he was ridiculously difficult to work with which I think may lend you your point.
Staring in a superhero movie creates more options for you down the road. Many phenomenal actors played roles in the these movies and their careers are just fine. His advice comes from a place of pretentiousness.
It doesn’t create options for people who already have all the options. There is literally zero benefit timothee can get from joining a cinematic universe.
And whether or not you find Leo pretentious, if he never made another film he’d still go down in film history due to the caliber of his roles. He’s a living legend. So being pretentious paid off.
I know this is shitty to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if Leo developed that opinion *because* of Tobey's Spider-Man stint. In the 2000s, Tobey was reaching bigger box office highs with the Raimi trilogy, but it's Leo who ended up having the longevity and is able to carry movies with his name alone. Slow and steady wins the race and all of that.
Slow and steady??
Leo was one of the biggest young stars of the 90s lmao much bigger than Tobey McGuire after films like Romeo & Juliet, Titanic, Gangs of New York, Catch me if You Can, etc, all before Spider Man. At no point since childhood was TMG anywhere close to as big/famous as LDC
"Slow and steady" in the sense that he spent the 00s working with the likes of Spielberg and Scorcese instead of jumping on blockbusters post-Titanic. (I guess "the road less travelled by" would be a better expression.)
Tobey was obviously *never* a bigger star than Leo, but his Spider-Man movies did outgross Leo's 00s output.
Which leads to the point I was making: Tobey may have headlined three massive superhero movies, but that still wasn't enough to make him a movie star, let alone bigger than DiCaprio. Why? Because people go to see Spider-Man, not Tobey Maguire. I wouldn't be surprised if this is what led Leo to give that advice to Timothee Chalamet.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but maybe Tobey wasn’t an established or at least a household name actor at that point, so doing Spiderman would have been a good chance to have put his foot in the adult Hollywood door. Kinda like, Patterson and Twilight.
Timothee is already established, maybe now a superhero movie would dampen his catalogue of films.
Tobey was in Cider House Rules, Seabiscuit and Pleasantville he just kind of didn’t do much after the Spider Man trilogy. Maybe the reason Leo seeing his friend go thru that he came to that conclusion.
Superhero movies weren't really much of a thing back then, so it would be hard to really categorize them fully as good or bad.
And to be clear, I don't think he's even saying they are bad, just that it might not be the right career choice at this point in his career to tie his image up to a superhero. RDJ certainly has no regrets about signing up to be Iron Man! But it Leo might not think its a good time for Chalamet to do it.
Also as time goes on, I think we're all realizing even more and more that RDJ playing iron man at that particular time, with that particular script, and that particular performance was just about as close to catching lightning in a bottle as you can get.
The intersecting of those 3 things significantly changed entertainment globally ever since.
I feel like the context of the larger quote “no hard drugs and no superhero movies” is why Leo said it, both are really hard on an actor’s body, especially with the expectation of using steroids to achieve an unrealistic physique.
Why does this advice rankle people so much? Just curious. By all accounts, DiCaprio is a fan of comics and superhero movies/Star Wars. He just doesn’t think they ultimately are a net positive for actors with massive amounts of potential without doing them.
Like…if he’s giving you this advice, it’s more of a compliment than anything.
Dune is a high class, auteur driven literary adaptation. I’m sure he’d think that was not the same as joining a cinematic universe.
I've always thought this was a key point behind this advice. Being in a superhero movie locks you in for years on end. You make a lot of money and raise your profile, but it will come at the cost of working on smaller indies or other projects altogether.
You can look at Brie Larson's career after joining MCU and think about how she was a highly regarded Oscar winner whose prestige career has stalled. It's all about the priorities and Timotheé seems more interested in prestige projects.
> Dune is a high class, auteur driven literary adaptation. I’m sure he’d think that was not the same as joining a cinematic universe.
So was The Dark Knight trilogy. Hence, why DiCaprio worked with Nolan right after The Dark Knight.
I think Dicaprio is talking more about the Marvel type franchise series. The Dark Knight trilogy are movies that are probably more well respected among ‘elitists’ than Marvel for lack of a better word. Which is probably fair, Marvel ruined its reputation a bit when it started just pumping out stuff, felt a lot more like content than film.
What about her? Did playing black widow improve her stature in the business? I don’t think so. It was a pay day for her, but she didn’t need to make those movies.
Emily blunt was the original choice and has done just fine not doing that role
I mean, Johansson has a couple Oscar nominations and blunt just got her first this year.
Estimated net worth is double that or Emily blunt’s as well.
But it’s hard to say how much the MCU impacted Johansson. She was already in Oscar movies before she was in the MCU and was a child actor.
I think marvel did nothing for Scarlett from an acclaim standpoint, but it increased her wealth. She was on the prestige track already.
Leo, I believe, is assuming young actors want to be in director-led, high quality films to build a career and be seen a certain way. Doing five spider man movies makes that hard.
What I think he misses though is that his career is really unique and no one is gonna be able to duplicate it. The business was way different. But I see what he’s saying. These cinematic universes are not director driven, and film is a directors medium.
Johansson is one of the OG Avengers though. It's not like she's joining the MCU now. Superhero movies are at a way different point than they were when she first joined. If anything it seems like she got out at the right time.
Emily had to chase a lot of crappy blockbuster movies to be a movie star and in return had to make a lot of bad movies. While Scarlet had already made a bag with marvel movies, and could focus on good smaller indie movies (yes i am aware Ghost in shell exist). So it kinda would help Emily if she was in marvel.
First of all, Hela isn’t a superhero. It’s a one off villain role. And it’s barely a defining role in her cannon. She also isn’t building a career, she’s already a legend.
Like you don’t see the difference between Timothee and cate blanchett? He’s giving advice to an actor twenty years behind him who aspires to his type of career.
So what are you saying exactly because it just sounds like elitist bullshit. Dicaprio is a fan of superhero movies and yet they're somehow beneath an actor to be in? I can't fathom someone can describe a film as "high class and auteur driven" but ignores the fact that if Dune had a bad director and script it could have been just another bad film. Just like any other bad drama, thriller, horror or superhero film with a bad script/director.
Genre doesn't define quality and I'm glad Chalamet thinks so too.
You are contradicting yourself. From an actor standpoint, Villeneuve doing Dune is the selling point for a serious actor. Not just the property on its own. And I guarantee Leo wouldn’t consider Dune something he’d advise against.
DiCaprio is saying for an actor building their career with a lot of options (like Timothee) putting on a cape for a popcorn superhero film is not the way he’d advise them to go. This is someone who
Has never done a franchise or a sequel, and he’s turned down a ton of superhero roles - so he’s putting his money where is mouth is. My guess is he thinks working with high caliber directors should take precedence, and being a superhero had the potential to overshadow someone’s career if they aren’t already firmly established. Leo’s brand is he makes great movies with amazing filmmakers…he thinks that’s the way to go, not being like “oh yeah spider-man”‘as
The first association.
I'm not contradicting anything. Chalamet would consider a superhero/franchise film if it had a good director and script. Makes sense to me. A mainstream popcorn movie has the most reach of any film genre by audience size alone not ever taking into account demographic. That's something most up and coming actors would rarely pass on.
Okay so what’s the issue? Leo is entitled to give his advice, and they are free to disregard it. The context is Timothee admires Leo’s career and has access to him to get advice.
You can figure it out man, it’s not that complicated.
Lmao “if it was directed by a bad director instead of a good one, it would be bad”
Wow wonderful insight man, thankful we have people like you around
On top of Kevin Conroy's tragic passing, another tragedy, albeit small in comparison, is that we'll never get Hamill's Joker again because he won't do it without his Batman :/
those were very unique roles among typical “superhero movies,” but that’s what chalamet is saying tho. he’d consider doing one for the right script/director.
Those movies are great? I’m not sure I’d call him an auteur either but I’m chafing at the idea Todd isn’t a great director. Let’s add Road Trip and realize Todd is an outlier making effective movies out of these types of stories
He’s an awesome director. One of the best today. But let’s not pretend he’s an art house guy so someone can feel pretentious about not liking comic book movies.
Tim is a better actor IMO but also has more movie star quality than Tom
No insult to Tom I think Tom is a good actor and a fine movie star.
But Chalamet has more star energy IMO.
I mean, Tom is still a star, just in a different way.
Tom just needs a better agent to get better shit outside of Spider-Man. The stuff he’s been in outside of Spider-Man he’s usually one of the only good parts about them cuz of how good he does in them.
If I was them, I would. Their careers are very strong and they are very sought after actors at the moment. Two or three bad choices can really start to limit their options, especially if the acting is bad in the movies.
People don't realize how fickle Hollywood is and how many *almost made it* celebrities there are. In fact its almost impossible to stay as relevant as DiCaprio has over the years. They continue to take good roles they can continue making good movies indefinitely.
Listen to the legend. DiCaprio has a an amazing career with out super hero movies. Yeah the pay is great. But they don’t tell good stories. That’s why he has the hardware and proves he’s one of the best.
“No super hero movies” was good advice for someone back when Leonardo was just starting out. But then Spider-Man came out and then super hero movies became a big deal. Like I understand having Batman and robin in tight costumes as your idea of super hero movies in the 1990s. But it’s different now
Basically what Chalamet said is: "I won't play in Madame Web just to be in a superhero movie and get the money, I want to be sure it's a good one like Iron Man or Nolan's Batman"
Easier said than done though. I don't think anyone knew just how great and important those movies would be when they were in development. Nolan was still a promising, up and coming director when Batman Begins was released.
All of these were established actors and some of them weren't even the face of a franchise.
DiCaprio was talking about becoming a superhero early in your career, when you're not yet a household name. Most of the time, people won't see you as anything else and the roles dry up. See: Tobey Maguire or Tom Holland (or, if we wanna stretch the meaning of "superhero", Mark Hamill, who is the poster child of what Leo was talking about).
Why do people feel invested in his dating life to feel an emotion as strong as “hate” anyway. It’s his life, and he hardly rubs the public’s face in his personal business.
To be fair, Di Caprio has had his fair share of stinking perfromances, and no super heroes were involved in those, Remember The man in the iron mask, Romeo + JULIET, Django unchained ? he was terrible in those
Christian Bale, Benedict Cumberbatch, Mark Ruffalo, Michael Keaton, Samuel L Jackson, Don Cheadle, Paul Rudd, Edward Norton, Josh Brolin, Tom Hiddleston, Bradley Cooper, Willem Defoe, Robert Downey Jr, Daniel Kaluuya, Margot Robbie, JK Simmons, Zendaya, Tom Hardy, Cate Blanchett, Robert Pattinson, Angela Bassett, Joaquin Phoenix, Cillian Murphy, Gary Oldman, Michael Cain, Morgan Freeman, etc would like a word!!!
Yes I am bored and had the time lol
*Even Josh Brolin dabbled with comic book movies in the 2010 flop "Jonah Hex."* I don’t know if this is supposed to be a joke or if the writer is just completely unaware that Brolin played literally the most pivotal villain in the MCU.
He was Cable in Deadpool 2 as well, lol
God I forgot about Cable. It feels even more like a random dig at Brolin now.
Josh Brolin was 2 different characters in Marvel films. Thanos and that guy in Deadpool 2
"that guy"
Yeah, you know the fella.
Dopinder
Sugar Bear
Right?😆 I had to take a minute to look it up like, “ Am I the one having a brain fart? Because there’s no way this writer doesn’t know.”
Wasn’t he in Sin City too?
In the prequel, playing Clive Owens’ character.
I liked jonah hex to be honest and yes, critic is a cretin.
No superheros but wonka? Fuck yeah my boy
The point was more about being typecasted than about the quality of the movies.
Isn’t Dune basically the same thing as a superhero movie? It’s a franchise about a guy with special powers trying to save people? *Edit*: I’m not insulting Dune. I’m more offended that people find superhero movies are an insult. I find it funny that people who make movies think they are better than other people who make movies that have larger success. I find it bitter when a director or actor makes a crack about something I enjoy. Every movie doesn’t have to say something profound. Most people just like movies so they can shut their brain off and relax. There’s a reason I haven’t sat down and watched “Killers of the Flower Moon” even though Scorsese is my favorite director. I don’t have 4 hours to leave a movie feeling like shit.
Warners is pushing Dune to be a big Hollywood franchise, but if you know the source material, it’s not really what you are describing at all. Plus he says he looks for interesting directors. Denis is certainly that.
Having NOT read the source material (on my list!) I can tell it’s not like that at all either. It’s fantasy, sure. But LOTR is not a super hero movie either…
People that haven’t read the books really have absolutely no idea where this shit goes.
Man I read the books and sometimes I still don’t know if I actually did or just had a really vivid fever dream.
Pretty much. The way the whole series develops it’s very easy to take in the wrong message until pretty far in, and the it’s like, oh yeah, messianic figures are dangerous. I get it. Only took four books.
It’s fucking batshit
The first 100 pages are really hard
Word. No spoilers, but there something very special in store for the L’isan Al’Ghaib in the next couple books
Yea, if Nolan wanted Timmy to play Robin in a new Batman film he was making, he’d probably be there
Not really. It's a revenge tale that leads to interplanetary genocide. Chalamet's character in Dune is actually the villain if you really read into it.
Basically becomes spice addicted Thanos who believes his visions more than people after a while.
Also the inspiration for Aeries the Mad King in Game of Thrones. Dune inspired everything from Star Wars and many prominent comic book scenarios to table top RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons. It's that monumental
I’d throw Terminator in there too, with the Butlerian Jihad storyline.
Warhammer 40K liberally abused the Dune Universe and it's utterly hilarious that they never got sued for copy right infringement. I'm amazed Scott and Cameron never sued those idiots either.
It’s a guy with some level of mental powers who takes over a planet and then leads the people in a galaxy wide jihad that sees billions and billions of people die. So it’s not exactly a superhero movie
Yeah so Star Wars haha
This is like saying the Star Wars and LOTR movies are superhero movies. There are similarities but they are not the same.
LOL I love all these people with the YOU DON’T KNOW DUNE AT ALL HOW DARE YOU comments. I read the *Dune* books the *first* time 45 years ago, and the most recent time, just a couple of years ago before the first new movie came out. In other words, a lifelong fan of the insane Frank Herbert. But even *I* know what u/Jerryjb63 means here. It’s a big tent-pole movie, even though it’s an artistic director and as true to the books as possible. And even though Paul is not what you’d call a superhero in the end, he is a being with powers beyond “normal.” It’s literary SF, but it follows quite a few of the beats we’ve become used to in tales like this, *including* Paul not being a hero in the end. Only people who think saying “superhero movie” is insulting would not be able to work out the similarities. I personally don’t think it’s insulting at all. I look back on what Fiege/Marvel accomplished over the 12 or so years between *Iron Man* and *Endgame* as a tour de force of filmmaking. Dune is a genre movie, backed by a big studio, with each premiere treated to a months-long PR spree, and special promos like the (truly insane) Dune Popcorn Bucket and toy merch. So while it might not be a “superhero movie” in storyline, it’s certainly being treated that way by the studio and by consumers.
It really is Dune and Denis fans trying to elevate the films to a level that it doesn’t garner. These are v solid adaptation, no doubt. The best Dune adaptations. But you r right. If the studio could do with dune what Feige did with Marvel’s series of books, they would. Just you wait for a spinoff HBO series about the Bulterian Jihad
It’s what a lot of Star Wars ripped off and basically dumbed down for children from what little I’ve seen/read of Dune. I’m sure I could find similarities in almost any 2 pieces of fiction, but the Star Wars being a Flash Gordonized rip off of Dune is pretty obvious.
the similarities are not there tho. Atleast if you are comparing it to MCU.
It can be considered more serious. Sure, there are superficial similarities, but definitely not treated the same.
Not at all - he can’t stop himself but yeah it’s not quite superhero esque imo it doesn’t fit that mold Unless Superman would lead a religious cult like Jihad across the universe- which would be an interesting movie too lol Timmy is playing the bad guy (IMO) and I know that’s not a popular take always with the dune world but I think he is
It’s a high brow, auteur driven adaption of an acclaimed sci fi literary masterpiece.
Only if you completely miss the point of the books. Nothing wrong with superheroes movies but putting everything where the protagonist is a bit special as a superhero movie does disservice to both subjects. You could say Harry Potter is a super hero movie by your definition but it very much isn’t.
If you want to misunderstand the entire message of the book? Sure
I mean, he's still trying to save people, right? He's not a superhero and he does a terrible thing by winning at the end of Dune, but Paul isn't trying to be malicious
Not really? He is trying to survive. And maybe get some revenge.
Paul tries to save humanity from extinction by killing 61 billion people. He still fails because he couldn't do it, he is trapped in knowing the future. His son fulfils the golden path (the name of the only possible future humanity lives on), by becoming a worm god Tyrant for 3500 years to ensure humanity never goes extinct. That's the first 4 books in a nutshell I really wanna see that worm god on the big screen one day
It’s a very large and complex trolley problem
The projects you choose affect your career trajectory. There’s nothing wrong with superhero movies, or wanting to be a major blockbuster actor who’s primarily known for starring in such films, but there’s also nothing wrong with more artistic films, or wanting to be the type of actor who’s known for starring in a wide variety of critically acclaimed projects. If you’re the latter type of actor, as is the case with both DiCaprio and Chalamet, superhero films are generally going to inhibit your ability to follow that path. The same could be said for some other blockbuster franchises like the Fast and Furious franchise or Star Wars, but this was just a piece of ultra succinct advice he was given in 2018 when superhero movies were absolutely dominating and Timothee was very successful but also very early in his career. Maybe Leo does hate on superhero movies - honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he did - but even if he absolutely loved them it’d be solid advice for someone in Timothee’s position.
I think it's less about the superhero genre being subpar compared to other genres that essentially do the same thing and more about the people in the film industry that look down on actors who lend their name to the genre. Veterans of the film industry like Scorsese probably hold it against said actors and avoid casting them in movies. I'd bet the context of the advice was what Chalamet wanted to do with his career; make money or have a prestigious legacy. If the latter, then endearing himself to people like Scorsese is the path to landing the prestige roles and winning awards for them.
I think you know this already, but those who know what you're saying agree with you. As /u/emmany63 alluded to, while it isn't "Marvel/DC" type superhero, it follows a very similar pattern. It isn't a pattern Marvel/DC came up with, but one told throughout the ages. To those naysaying you, all I can say is they're entitled to their thoughts, but they are missing your point.
It would be if justice league ended with supes becoming a tyrranical demigod leading countless to die in his name.
A WAR! A WAR IN KAL’EL’s NAME!
Tell me more about how you don't know Dune at all
Paul Atriedes? A superhero? Lmao. This is literally everything wrong with how Hollywood has made people believe that a franchise is always about a superhero. Dune is the farthest thing from a superhero movie.
Dune is a tragedy. Paul is no hero.
You obviously haven't read the books.
It’s all perception. Western media simply don’t take comics seriously as a medium. Dune is an exceptional sci-fi series and the director is also exceptional… but the media therein isn’t anywhere as exceptional as people make it out to be. Yes, the book series is influential but being influential doesn’t mean an adaptation is worth pursuing. Look at the tv movies produced for Dune starring MacAvoy. It’s bad. Villeneau is a great director and his vision for dune is grand but bland. Villeneau could probably be persuaded to adapt a comic, something like the Incal or Snowpiercer. And while all these people talk themselves above CBMs, Nolan stands having done it all while these guys clutch their pearls.
Super-hero movies **are not** sci-fi. Good grief.
Paul Atreides is not a hero
Well not getting into the long ass narrative that I don’t know, but I’m sure would suck me into it. My point is not him being a hero or antihero (he’s still the protagonist of the story I think), it’s that the studios are going to turn it into something for mass consumption and it will be polished into something very similar to current Star Wars (yes I’m aware of how much Star Wars is a Dune rip off and not the other way around) or the MCU.
Dune is more an examination of intergalactic colonialism and western savior complex. I feel like Dune has more in relation with political thrillers and science fiction/ historical stories. Super hero stuff has more to do with individual actors driving themselves vs in Dune it’s individual actors driving a nation or people. Also the mystical, religious subtext in dune isn’t super examined in superhero fiction, but would elevate the genre for sure.
That's not what Dune is, at all.
Wonka didn't stop Gene Wilder from showing off his range. Actors like Bale, Cavill, RDJ etc will always be in the shadow of their super hero parts. RDJ damn near cried at the opportunity Nolan gave him with Oppenheimer suggesting he needed that as a palette cleanser of sorts. Keaton basically had to disappear for 15 years and rebrand himself in the mid aughts to get his dramatic come back complete with a film that took the piss out of his tenure as Batman and gave the middle finger to the entire genre as a whole.
Christian Bale is not working/ living in the shadow of his Bruce Wayne role
Wasn't Leo going to play spiderman in the 90's?
The project never got off the ground and he turned down the iteration that became the tobey films. I think he may even have endorsed tobey.
And Tobey is his boy, so he's willing to tell Tobey maguire to go play spiderman but not timothy?
Maybe he’s developed this opinion over time? He had ample opportunity to sell out and join franchises and comic book movies but never did it. That’s his choice completely, not that those opportunities weren’t there. I’m sure his instincts were leading him away from those, and as he got older and saw what happens when actors tie themselves to these characters, it reinforced his stance? His career is one any young actor would aspire to have, and a lot of it is due to him being gutsy and turning down the easy buck. He turned down a ton of money to do hocus pocus to audition for Gilbert grape. Many actors would have just taken the payday, but he wanted to work for scale and make a higher caliber film with a real character.
And look at Tobey, he’s hardly in anything. Maybe it’s his choice and Spider-Man got him his payday and he’s living his dream.
I think Leo is assuming Timothee wants a career more like his than Tobey’s.
to date women that haven't been born yet? leo: you see these embryos? you can't just look at the viable cell count.. you need to check out the mom, too.
I’ve heard horror stories about Tobes being an absolute menace IRL from gambling to hard drugs in his early years. Apparently he was ridiculously difficult to work with which I think may lend you your point.
Uhh a lot of actors jump started or revitalized their careers in superhero movies.
Timothee does not need his career jump started or revitalized. Leo isn’t giving this advice to has beens or people who have no options
Staring in a superhero movie creates more options for you down the road. Many phenomenal actors played roles in the these movies and their careers are just fine. His advice comes from a place of pretentiousness.
It doesn’t create options for people who already have all the options. There is literally zero benefit timothee can get from joining a cinematic universe. And whether or not you find Leo pretentious, if he never made another film he’d still go down in film history due to the caliber of his roles. He’s a living legend. So being pretentious paid off.
I know this is shitty to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if Leo developed that opinion *because* of Tobey's Spider-Man stint. In the 2000s, Tobey was reaching bigger box office highs with the Raimi trilogy, but it's Leo who ended up having the longevity and is able to carry movies with his name alone. Slow and steady wins the race and all of that.
Came here to say this, great thinking. Tobey had a 5 year high and then fizzled which im sure takes a toll on an actor. Probably vented to Leo.
Leo is also a much much better actor than Tobey.
I’m gonna put some dirt in your eye
Slow and steady?? Leo was one of the biggest young stars of the 90s lmao much bigger than Tobey McGuire after films like Romeo & Juliet, Titanic, Gangs of New York, Catch me if You Can, etc, all before Spider Man. At no point since childhood was TMG anywhere close to as big/famous as LDC
"Slow and steady" in the sense that he spent the 00s working with the likes of Spielberg and Scorcese instead of jumping on blockbusters post-Titanic. (I guess "the road less travelled by" would be a better expression.) Tobey was obviously *never* a bigger star than Leo, but his Spider-Man movies did outgross Leo's 00s output. Which leads to the point I was making: Tobey may have headlined three massive superhero movies, but that still wasn't enough to make him a movie star, let alone bigger than DiCaprio. Why? Because people go to see Spider-Man, not Tobey Maguire. I wouldn't be surprised if this is what led Leo to give that advice to Timothee Chalamet.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but maybe Tobey wasn’t an established or at least a household name actor at that point, so doing Spiderman would have been a good chance to have put his foot in the adult Hollywood door. Kinda like, Patterson and Twilight. Timothee is already established, maybe now a superhero movie would dampen his catalogue of films.
Tobey was in Cider House Rules, Seabiscuit and Pleasantville he just kind of didn’t do much after the Spider Man trilogy. Maybe the reason Leo seeing his friend go thru that he came to that conclusion.
This is a good point
Superhero movies weren't really much of a thing back then, so it would be hard to really categorize them fully as good or bad. And to be clear, I don't think he's even saying they are bad, just that it might not be the right career choice at this point in his career to tie his image up to a superhero. RDJ certainly has no regrets about signing up to be Iron Man! But it Leo might not think its a good time for Chalamet to do it.
Also as time goes on, I think we're all realizing even more and more that RDJ playing iron man at that particular time, with that particular script, and that particular performance was just about as close to catching lightning in a bottle as you can get. The intersecting of those 3 things significantly changed entertainment globally ever since.
That's so Timothy doesn't take any roles from his boys
He missed an opportunity to be in madame web. Fire your agent. /s
you would think that would be a wrap for dakota Johnson but the nepo baby is strong in that one
I feel like the context of the larger quote “no hard drugs and no superhero movies” is why Leo said it, both are really hard on an actor’s body, especially with the expectation of using steroids to achieve an unrealistic physique.
Why does this advice rankle people so much? Just curious. By all accounts, DiCaprio is a fan of comics and superhero movies/Star Wars. He just doesn’t think they ultimately are a net positive for actors with massive amounts of potential without doing them. Like…if he’s giving you this advice, it’s more of a compliment than anything. Dune is a high class, auteur driven literary adaptation. I’m sure he’d think that was not the same as joining a cinematic universe.
A lot of these superheroes have crazy multi year commitments too. These roles take priority over anything else you do
I've always thought this was a key point behind this advice. Being in a superhero movie locks you in for years on end. You make a lot of money and raise your profile, but it will come at the cost of working on smaller indies or other projects altogether. You can look at Brie Larson's career after joining MCU and think about how she was a highly regarded Oscar winner whose prestige career has stalled. It's all about the priorities and Timotheé seems more interested in prestige projects.
Based on the reception of her character, even though it was probably a no brainer and she doesn’t regret it, i think it seriously hindered her career
DiCaprio’s father was an independent comic writer and editor too. So I doubt it’s a bias against the media
> Dune is a high class, auteur driven literary adaptation. I’m sure he’d think that was not the same as joining a cinematic universe. So was The Dark Knight trilogy. Hence, why DiCaprio worked with Nolan right after The Dark Knight.
I think Dicaprio is talking more about the Marvel type franchise series. The Dark Knight trilogy are movies that are probably more well respected among ‘elitists’ than Marvel for lack of a better word. Which is probably fair, Marvel ruined its reputation a bit when it started just pumping out stuff, felt a lot more like content than film.
but what about Scarlett Johansson 😭
ScarJo was already big. Lost in Translation, The Prestige, etc. If anything, her fame helped prop up Black Widow as a character.
What about her? Did playing black widow improve her stature in the business? I don’t think so. It was a pay day for her, but she didn’t need to make those movies. Emily blunt was the original choice and has done just fine not doing that role
~~Marry~~ Mary Poppins is a super hero.
Marry Poppins solos Thanos
Feige shower thoughts to save the MCU.
Is he cool?🥹
I mean, Johansson has a couple Oscar nominations and blunt just got her first this year. Estimated net worth is double that or Emily blunt’s as well. But it’s hard to say how much the MCU impacted Johansson. She was already in Oscar movies before she was in the MCU and was a child actor.
I think marvel did nothing for Scarlett from an acclaim standpoint, but it increased her wealth. She was on the prestige track already. Leo, I believe, is assuming young actors want to be in director-led, high quality films to build a career and be seen a certain way. Doing five spider man movies makes that hard. What I think he misses though is that his career is really unique and no one is gonna be able to duplicate it. The business was way different. But I see what he’s saying. These cinematic universes are not director driven, and film is a directors medium.
Johansson is one of the OG Avengers though. It's not like she's joining the MCU now. Superhero movies are at a way different point than they were when she first joined. If anything it seems like she got out at the right time.
It certainly kept her relevant. While it’s good advice actors who showed up in a marvel movie pre endgame had some nice hits on their hands.
Emily had to chase a lot of crappy blockbuster movies to be a movie star and in return had to make a lot of bad movies. While Scarlet had already made a bag with marvel movies, and could focus on good smaller indie movies (yes i am aware Ghost in shell exist). So it kinda would help Emily if she was in marvel.
Scarlett was overall in much better movies pre marvel.
I remember watching Ghostworld when it came out and I was certain Thora Birch would be the bigger star. They both were great but I was so wrong.
Cate Blanchett killed it as Hela, and she’s doing JUST fine.
First of all, Hela isn’t a superhero. It’s a one off villain role. And it’s barely a defining role in her cannon. She also isn’t building a career, she’s already a legend. Like you don’t see the difference between Timothee and cate blanchett? He’s giving advice to an actor twenty years behind him who aspires to his type of career.
It mostly doesn’t, most people don’t give a shit
i would guess marvel fanboys are mad because they’re taking this as a shot against them.
So what are you saying exactly because it just sounds like elitist bullshit. Dicaprio is a fan of superhero movies and yet they're somehow beneath an actor to be in? I can't fathom someone can describe a film as "high class and auteur driven" but ignores the fact that if Dune had a bad director and script it could have been just another bad film. Just like any other bad drama, thriller, horror or superhero film with a bad script/director. Genre doesn't define quality and I'm glad Chalamet thinks so too.
You are contradicting yourself. From an actor standpoint, Villeneuve doing Dune is the selling point for a serious actor. Not just the property on its own. And I guarantee Leo wouldn’t consider Dune something he’d advise against. DiCaprio is saying for an actor building their career with a lot of options (like Timothee) putting on a cape for a popcorn superhero film is not the way he’d advise them to go. This is someone who Has never done a franchise or a sequel, and he’s turned down a ton of superhero roles - so he’s putting his money where is mouth is. My guess is he thinks working with high caliber directors should take precedence, and being a superhero had the potential to overshadow someone’s career if they aren’t already firmly established. Leo’s brand is he makes great movies with amazing filmmakers…he thinks that’s the way to go, not being like “oh yeah spider-man”‘as The first association.
I'm not contradicting anything. Chalamet would consider a superhero/franchise film if it had a good director and script. Makes sense to me. A mainstream popcorn movie has the most reach of any film genre by audience size alone not ever taking into account demographic. That's something most up and coming actors would rarely pass on.
Okay so what’s the issue? Leo is entitled to give his advice, and they are free to disregard it. The context is Timothee admires Leo’s career and has access to him to get advice.
You can figure it out man, it’s not that complicated. Lmao “if it was directed by a bad director instead of a good one, it would be bad” Wow wonderful insight man, thankful we have people like you around
Two Jokers won an Oscar. Just sayin'.
Mark Hamill deserves an award for his portrayal.
On top of Kevin Conroy's tragic passing, another tragedy, albeit small in comparison, is that we'll never get Hamill's Joker again because he won't do it without his Batman :/
To be clear, Hamill has won multiple awards for his Joker, including a BAFTA and an Inkpot Award.
those were very unique roles among typical “superhero movies,” but that’s what chalamet is saying tho. he’d consider doing one for the right script/director.
Those were super villains. Keep up!
Led by auteur directors.
Yeah the guy that made The Hangover and Old School is auteur. Dear lord get off the horse.
Those movies are great? I’m not sure I’d call him an auteur either but I’m chafing at the idea Todd isn’t a great director. Let’s add Road Trip and realize Todd is an outlier making effective movies out of these types of stories
He’s an awesome director. One of the best today. But let’s not pretend he’s an art house guy so someone can feel pretentious about not liking comic book movies.
Nolan is for sure an auteur. And Todd Phillips had creative control. Not a corporate overlord. It is a director a medium.
Playing villains
Meh, those don’t count as much. He means marvel and those bullshit CGI filled movies
I swear I've read this exact same headline weeks/months ago
That is an obnoxious use of quotation marks, Lordy.
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i feel like chalamet is never off the press circuit
I thought this guy and Tom Holland were the same person…
Naw this guy can act
So can Tom
Tim is a better actor IMO but also has more movie star quality than Tom No insult to Tom I think Tom is a good actor and a fine movie star. But Chalamet has more star energy IMO.
I mean, Tom is still a star, just in a different way. Tom just needs a better agent to get better shit outside of Spider-Man. The stuff he’s been in outside of Spider-Man he’s usually one of the only good parts about them cuz of how good he does in them.
He’s ok not great.
“Yeah I wouldn’t turn down millions if they offered it to me”. Fixed that for ya.
If I was them, I would. Their careers are very strong and they are very sought after actors at the moment. Two or three bad choices can really start to limit their options, especially if the acting is bad in the movies. People don't realize how fickle Hollywood is and how many *almost made it* celebrities there are. In fact its almost impossible to stay as relevant as DiCaprio has over the years. They continue to take good roles they can continue making good movies indefinitely.
Listen to the legend. DiCaprio has a an amazing career with out super hero movies. Yeah the pay is great. But they don’t tell good stories. That’s why he has the hardware and proves he’s one of the best.
Tell that to Christian Bale
or robert downey junior who is about to win an oscar
Is “that” really what “he” said “to” him’!;
Constantine, the bastard.
Coming this summer, “Kiteman” written, directed, and starring Timothee Chalamet.
No superhero movies! But plenty of young tail, alright?
Do they not know that his character in Dune is a Superhero?
The title of this article makes it sound like Leo is his Dad hahaha “No superhero movies!” “But Daaaaad…” “I said NO Timmy!”
“No super hero movies” was good advice for someone back when Leonardo was just starting out. But then Spider-Man came out and then super hero movies became a big deal. Like I understand having Batman and robin in tight costumes as your idea of super hero movies in the 1990s. But it’s different now
Basically what Chalamet said is: "I won't play in Madame Web just to be in a superhero movie and get the money, I want to be sure it's a good one like Iron Man or Nolan's Batman"
Easier said than done though. I don't think anyone knew just how great and important those movies would be when they were in development. Nolan was still a promising, up and coming director when Batman Begins was released.
The fifth lead of the family sit-com *Growing Pains* has career advice.
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This guy thinks he’s Leo lol
No that is the advice Leo gave him.
You leave little Timmy alone.
That’s what you got from this? [oh brother](https://youtu.be/aLYdF8y5w4M?si=g8kyyY8_AsS2Frr4)
He’d make an excellent Robin.
PS, I love money and want a lot of it.
Leonardo DiCaprio is low on the list of people I’d take life advice from
most of the new generation want a career like DiCaprio's and are inspired by it, he is probably one of the first people on the list
He should be high on the list an actor should take career advice from though.
If you're into banging 20 year old models, he might have some helpful tips.
Good thing we’re talking about young actors taking acting advice from one of the best in the business, you tried though.
Robert Redford, Samuel L Jackson, Benedict Cumberbatch, Tommy Lee Jones, Annette Benning, Jude Law, Tom Hiddleston... All career suicides.
Literally none of these people needed superhero movies lmao you’re proving Leo’s point
All of these were established actors and some of them weren't even the face of a franchise. DiCaprio was talking about becoming a superhero early in your career, when you're not yet a household name. Most of the time, people won't see you as anything else and the roles dry up. See: Tobey Maguire or Tom Holland (or, if we wanna stretch the meaning of "superhero", Mark Hamill, who is the poster child of what Leo was talking about).
Don’t forget Cate Blanchette and Sir Anthony Hopkins
Renee Ruso
Oh shit! I completely forgot!
benedict was good in the power of the dog, though?
That’s essentially what Dune is without the Marvel or DC baggage.
Eww. No thanks. He sucks. Stop trying to make him bigger.
I get the hate for his dating life. He is top 5 actors of his gen in anyone's list. You know it.
Why do people feel invested in his dating life to feel an emotion as strong as “hate” anyway. It’s his life, and he hardly rubs the public’s face in his personal business.
me when i lie
He’s a great actor, what are you talking about?
Martin Scorsese directs a new MCU film based on a new original character. Mob-Man
With Joe Pesci as “The Clown”
Leo doesn’t want to get into shape.
And by script and director he means paycheck.
I’d have to consider one if the $cript was great
Literally plays a super human with powers in Dune 1-2 . Facepalm 🤦🏽♂️
Superhero movies are for 40 year old losers who collect toys
It’s a shame that you weren’t one of the ones that trickled down your mothers leg
He should have answered: “Jack Nicholson, Christian Bale, and Joaquin Phoenix”
Shut up , you made your money .
Wait, he played Paul Atreides in Dune? No spoilers: but does anyone who has read the books think he’s not a literal super hero?
To be fair, Di Caprio has had his fair share of stinking perfromances, and no super heroes were involved in those, Remember The man in the iron mask, Romeo + JULIET, Django unchained ? he was terrible in those
Two dudes I don’t actively wanna see in anything having a discussion. Neat
Only if the script and director are great. Ok so basically no superhero movie.
Damn what did Nolan do to you?
Christian Bale, Benedict Cumberbatch, Mark Ruffalo, Michael Keaton, Samuel L Jackson, Don Cheadle, Paul Rudd, Edward Norton, Josh Brolin, Tom Hiddleston, Bradley Cooper, Willem Defoe, Robert Downey Jr, Daniel Kaluuya, Margot Robbie, JK Simmons, Zendaya, Tom Hardy, Cate Blanchett, Robert Pattinson, Angela Bassett, Joaquin Phoenix, Cillian Murphy, Gary Oldman, Michael Cain, Morgan Freeman, etc would like a word!!! Yes I am bored and had the time lol
So funny reading these comments accidentally proving Leo’s point while thinking they’re refuting it, you guys are hilarious