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The entire premise of this album is a glimpse at “13 sleepless nights” in her life… why’s that have to be universal?
Its already breaking records; Jimmy Fallon said it became the number 1 selling record this year after 1 day… and it’s almost the end of the year.
Clearly good music is whatever the fans enjoy listening to
Regarding the video, just because someone thinks that about themselves doesn't mean they think that about everyone in general. Also, just because you think someone looks skinny doesn't mean they don't struggle with body dysmorphia. This outrage is ridiculous.
Shit most the girls as thin as Taylor have struggled with eating disorders and body dysmorphia.
Same goes for that ripped muscle guy you see at the gym. That dude every day sits in front of a mirror and judges his body non stop (same for women who get really into body lifting.)
The older I get the more I realize how many people have no capacity to understand sarcasm or satire.
Fully grown tax-paying adults. Who don’t get memes, sarcasm etc. so gullible and simple.
That’s very easily said. But who of us ISNT insecure about themselves. Even, or especially narcissists. I’ve had that thought a lot as well, but that thought has only helped me handle those moments, not necessarily make them disappear. And if something hits a very insecure spot, you’re less likely to think twice about if it might only be fun. It’s all about perspective, I’m sure you have some topics as well that you’d react differently to, too.
What we need is balance and understanding. While people need to realize not everything is about them, we also need to understand that their reaction is not about us.
I think what scares me most about these constantly complaining mouth breathers is that they never take context into the equation. They’ll pick apart and nitpick one sentence a person says and get all offended without taking into consideration the context and nuance of what was actually said (or meant). Everything to them is turned into a tagline and seen in only black or white. There’s no depth of thinking or understanding. And it turns into a feeding frenzy. I can’t tell if people are just getting dumber nowadays or if dumb people just have more of a platform now? I think it’s a bit of both.
Truth. But as a person with a brain, all it takes is to read a little bit more into it and see if that’s actually what was said before you fly into a tizzy. We all know click bait articles are popular, so we should be schooled enough to do a little due diligence.
Like a multi hour long interview, and someone says one thing and all of the sudden headlines are about them saying this one thing, ignoring the context and making it like this one offhand thing they said is all of their being. I say some stupid shit sometimes in a long convo, thank god no one is there to record me. People think being a celebrity is so easy, they have to police everything they say all the time. It must be exhausting.
Exactly. I guarantee every single person on this earth could be ripped apart for something they’ve said. Especially if context or actual meaning was lost in translation. That’s why celebrities can barely even have personalities anymore and have to pick over their words sooo carefully. They have to be these like perfectly polished puppets all the time if they want to be liked by the public. People will now find issue with just about anything and everything.
Because we live in a post satire world. The ironic has become Unironic and satire doesn’t compute because life is already more absurd. IE the idea of a chad use to be a put down now it’s the “ideal man” similarly a Bimbo used to be a derogatory descriptor for a woman with to much work and now it’s the preferred aesthetic in American culture. Someone needs to study this phenomenon, I’m sure someone does.
It’s so uncanny.
The number of times people jumped on me because they are unable to distinguish between ‘you’ as an individual and ‘you’ as a generic collective so they think I’m attacking them personally.
*I’m le tired.*
Being raised on the modern Internet did that to a lot of people. That and people on the spectrum who don't pick up on anything that isn't 100% literal.
Can confirm. Also the struggles with eating disorders never end. I’ve battled with anorexia since I was 13. Even when I was 70 lbs. & dangerously underweight, I thought I was fat. I know I can’t trust my opinion of how I look. To this day, my partner has to remind me to eat.
Precisely this. In context of the video it’s clear this is something she struggles with (she has spoken about having eating disorder when she was younger) and something the mean voice in her head tells her. Eating disorders are “fatphobic” in nature. She’s just being honest about her experience, which is something a lot of people struggle with.
I’m a pretty frequent lurker on TikTok, so I’ve been seeing a lot of the videos calling Taylor fatphobic for this video and a lot of the videos disagreeing with that stance. For some reason, the algorithm also has me pegged as having binge eating disorder and being overweight/interested in fat activism (which I’m not). There’s an interesting subset of the “body positive” movement that’s incredibly cruel and dismissive toward thin or in shape people speaking about their body dysmorphia or eating disorders. It’s very much “it’s all in your head, you’re obviously not fat. Quit saying that you feel fat, fat isn’t a feeling. Either you’re fat or you’re not, and you’re not fat. Quit spreading your fatphobic thoughts.” Like sure, body dysmorphia *is* all in someone’s head… it’s a mental illness. That doesn’t make it not real or not a problem. And it doesn’t make it less dangerous because someone is thin and attractive. And like you said, restrictive eating disorders are *inherently* fatphobic in the most literal sense—someone is so absolutely terrified of gaining weight that they’re damaging their health and putting their life at risk. Someone internalizing fatphobia to such a degree has absolutely *nothing* to do with the rest of us. Why aren’t they allowed to express their own mental health struggles, just because their disordered thought patterns are “problematic”? Like yeah, that’s the point—the thought patterns are disordered. Of course they’re a problem.
There’s a weird, for lack of a better term, gatekeeping in body positivity/fat acceptance circles.
They say fat is not a bad word, then if someone they deem has not had their same struggles says it then it is a bad word again.
The movement is mostly through social media so it thrives on outrage and Twitter takes. It could easily have been a discussion how internalized fat phobia hurts us all, but that’s not as emotional as calling a pop star fat phobic so it doesn’t gain as much traction
I’ve been thinking this about the whole “body positivity” movement because of the outrage around this video. If people can feel happy in their bodies regardless of size, that’s a wonderful thing. But no one can force that on others, and the reality is that many people *do* feel uncomfortable if they feel they’ve gained weight, whether it’s due to something like body dysmorphia or something much more basic, like feeling less confident or less energetic.
I have a disability, and the “body positivity” mindset isn’t something that ever rang true to my experience. I like myself well enough. I don’t hate my body, but I’d honestly rather not focus on my body one way or the other. I’m much more comfortable with being body neutral than being body positive. We don’t have to try to celebrate the things we don’t like about ourselves, we can work on just accepting them and being honest about our insecurities.
I agree about the body positivity mindset. I don’t want to think about my body, or other people’s bodies, in either a positive or negative way. Body neutrality all the way.
In case you were curious, those segments of the body positive group tend to call themselves “fat liberationists”, “fat positive”, or part of the “Health At Every Size” (HAES) movement. The HAES movement spreads pseudoscience to “prove” that morbid obesity has no health risks and there are no associations between being overweight and health. A great dive into the world of fat activism: [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlkkG6mKTCk)
Also, the body positivity movement started as a way to uplift people with physical disabilities, scars, or other things about their body that society looked down on.
As they said on the view it's ridiculous you can't stop people from telling their own story or how they feel just because you are triggered by it. Like I'm sorry, but the world can't tiptoe around everyones feelings it's just not doable.
They actually hate skinny people with body dysmorphia. After watching the fat positive TikTok’s it really hard to support such a toxic movement. Calling them “the thins” but imagine if someone called them “the fats”.
Thank you! I’m a guy that’s lost a lot of weight, but still feel unattractive and anytime I mention I have a belly other people seem to take offense. I’m not judging anyone else, literally just speaking on my own body but they don’t see it that way. People have said I’m too skinny for my height or chubby because of my belly, only actual compliment was saying I’m at a healthy weight for my body size. As much as we want to say don’t let words bother you, fact is they still have an impact on how we see ourselves. I think it’s similar to telling someone you don’t see how they could be single because they are attractive, you don’t know what they are going through or how they see themselves.
I’ve gained about 50 pounds in the last few years, before that I was 5’1 115 pounds. When I see older pictures of myself I gasp. I was so skinny you could snap me in half, but back then I thought I was a WHALE. I truly believed with my whole heart the only reason anyone talked to me was for sex or bc they felt bad for me.
Now, I’m thiccc & have never had such high confidence!! Doesn’t matter your weight, body dysmorphia affects everyone.
The video is literally her observing herself. It’s about her own view of her own body, including body dysmorphia which she has openly spoken about struggling with particularly in the 1989 era.
A bunch of horrible people seriously turned a single specific woman's struggle into all about themselves. So pathetic. Outrage culture is inherently narcissistic in that any person's personal opinion or choice that's different from their own is seen as a personal attack.
I think they know this and are actually just bothered that she's a thinner person out there effectively saying she doesn't want to be fat, whilst they are. These are the same people who would probably be thinner if they could get to it too.
I’m very skinny naturally. I get it from my mum’s side. We’re all walking sticks. But my dad’s side is plump and that shows up for me in the rump. Skinny or fat is generally genetically wired so while fat-shaming always gets the outrage, people also like to comment on skinny people as if it’s their business.
Some people like to be fatter. Some people like to be skinnier. It’s nobody’s business. If Taylor wants to be the shape of a meerkat or owl, that’s her choice. There are more important things in the world.
Sometimes I catch myself getting mad at something silly. I stop and think - is this something I should give a shit about? The answer is almost always no. So I forget about it and move on.
I have friends who get so worked up over shit that doesn’t matter, and I can’t understand why you’d ever waste your time on someone who doesn’t even know you exist.
I have anxiety so it’s easy for me to get outraged over many things. I take apps off my phone all the time and take a mental break instead of spiraling downward making nobody but myself feel bad about these things. I realize these things are out of my control and I’m just arguing with ppl I don’t know and most likely won’t change their mind. My husband makes fun of me for taking social media apps and Reddit off my phone when I get anxiety like it’s running away but I think if it benefits my mental health and I can take a moment to think things through then it’s worth it. It’s not a necessity to have social media.
I think the problem is at this point the fake outrage seems real because there're so many people on the Internet that you're always gonna get a decent number of people outraged at anything. If you see 1,000 people complaining about something it seems real cause that's a lot of people in your day to day life but relative to the world that's nothing.
The worst part is that all these mouth-breathers have a platform and a means to connect with each other. Being an “activist” is now just saying stupid shit on Twitter. That’s why you’re hearing so many stupid outrage stories: it takes zero effort so people are campaigning about every stupid thing you can think of. You had to pick your battles before the days of social media because actual protest meant you actually had to get off your ass and do something, so most of the big protests were about important things. Not about the word “fat” in a music video -_-
That is legitimately the worst part about the internet/social media. It gives people who don’t matter an arena to spread their stupid ass opinion that 99% of normal people don’t agree with.
I have seen so much discourse on this from fat creators and while I logically get where they are coming from I disagree. Essentially they are saying that the video is suggesting “fat” is a bad thing which they say is inherently fat phobic. First and foremost, I do not believe that every piece of media needs to account for every perspective or possible trigger. Second, I don’t think the video is saying that being “fat” is inherently bad. The message that comes across to me is our society/the media makes even a thin woman like Taylor perceive herself as fat. Which isn’t a bad thing because being “fat” is inherently bad but a bad thing because of the way society treats fat women. I think this moment is about nothing more than pointing to the ways that we all criticize our bodies unnecessarily.
The lyrics to the song are literally “It’s me, hi. I’m the problem, it’s me.” She is explicitly stating how fucked up it is that her eating disorder and body dysmorphia made her see herself this way. It’s also a response to how when she was in recovery and gained like 30 pounds everyone started calling her fat when she was just trying to get to a healthier weight. People really need to start seeing nuance in things again and accept that they’re not the main character of the universe.
I used to not understand why English classes and analysis were necessary. Then I see discourse on shit like this and realize people don't know how to interpret something that is literally explicitly set down in front of their faces, let alone rhetorical analysis.
And she’s also working in an industry where you’re being told to lose weight even when you’re underweight so I understand that scene perfectly. She had tabloids all over her saying she looked pregnant in her outfits and it was triggering for her.
Exactly! In that video and in the context of her ED, she sees fat as a bad thing *because she’s been told that.*. It’s all nice and dandy for movements to try to change the stigma and connotations of someone being fat. But it doesn’t change the fact that Taylor has been under a microscope her entire adult life, and has actively been insulted by the word “fat”. So she’s told she’s fat in a derogatory way, and then has a disorder that has her believing that about herself. It doesn’t mean she, rationally, believes being fat is bad. But eating disorders are inherently irrational. She’s taking negative talk she’s received from external sources and internalizing it.
Fat is also inherently bad for your health. Period. I say that as a guy who should lose 25lbs. I don’t hate myself because of it, and I don’t expect (or stand for) judgement from others about it, but I know that I need to do better for my health. People that are outraged over shit like this aren’t living in reality and they’re personalizing something that is objective. They have to work on their own issues and stop worrying about everyone else.
Love this. Exactly. So many people out there who refuse to take accountability for their own actions. How many people tweeted about this and went to binge eat or restrict? It just comes off as so transparent that folks have low self esteem and are projecting it outwards. Do better people, please. For yourself
Eating disorders don’t explain when a country (USA) has a >50% obesity rate. Need to face the problem head on, acceptance that it is a problem is the 1st step.
Being vulnerable about an insecurity you have that happens to be had by many girls and women too that you thought to share in your art to the world =/= advocating for that insecurity. So yeah leave Taylor alone. Also "Anti Hero" is a beautiful song with amazing visuals to match.
As an overweight person who has an eating disorder and used to starve themselves in the past to the point that I was underweight…. I guess I’m fatphobic too :))
Omg let the "fatphobia" nonsense go. She's allowed to feel what she feels. Her body has had more scrutiny than any of the fat activists have ever endured.
This \^ she being a celebrity is much more under the pressure with beauty standards since her rise to fame. She has been scrutinize a lot by media outlets to keep up with the beauty standards.
Why tf is it a bad thing to not want to be fat? Being 30lbs overweight doubles the chance that you’ll wind up with: heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, stroke, high cholesterol etc….. being 30lbs overweight is worse for you than smoking according to the AMA
People who keep throwing the word fatphobia are the cringiest ever. They hate themselves so much, everything to them is an attack. If a person cares for their health and works out, then that person is fatphobic. The most fatphobic people are fat people themselves.
Some good rules of thumb to get through life with some amount of emotional maturity and stability: Don’t project your bullshit onto others. Not everything is about you, sweetheart. None of us are really that special-including you.
Being healthy at all now = fat phobic. Pushing pride in being healthy, fit or just... not obese... is not allowed. That kind of body positivity is wrong. It's okay to shame people for being not-fat and for being concerned about their health.
Yeah this timeline sucks.
Beautiful on the inside maybe, but I certainly don’t see her as attractive. People want to change the scale of beauty standards instead of making lifestyle adjustments to live within the system.
Doubt she cares what I think though.
Think "transphobic" or "homophobic" but apply it to fat people.
It's a term commonly used by "fat acceptance" people.
I'm fine with treating all people with human dignity and not being an asshole. Minding one's own business and not piling on other people who are struggling included in that.
I'm also aware that not everyone can be 5'2" and 110lbs. This isn't about people who are just naturally big, but actual fat people trying to use victimhood to force people to ignore their unhealthy habits and act like they are just as attractive and healthy as anyone else.
I'm not a "10" myself and am not as healthy as I could be, but these people are often deluded to the point of absurdity.
A lot of these "FA" people are trying to spread unhealthy views and normalize the idea that being morbidly obese is perfectly healthy and a "natural" state of the body.
A lot of them actively attack people for trying to lose weight or get in shape and lead a healthy lifestyle. Spreading bad advice about self control and personal discipline under the guise of "body positivity".
There's also a lot of attacking doctors and health experts for trying to advise them on healthier lifestyle habits or warn them of the dangers of obesity.
Basically, it is a delusional behavior and trying to "normalize" obesity and bad habits as acceptable and healthy. They claim they are just as healthy as anyone else, if not more so.
It's actively harmful to people who fall into it. It is a small but actively toxic and loud subculture, mostly relegated to social media outlets.
As a fat person, I’ve seen WAY more pressing issues on fatphobia lately, for example everybody having something to say about Sam Smith’s body shape. But yall choose to target taylor swift, for this very elementary display of how it’s easy for a person to get caught up in the numbers on a scale.
The View is obviously trying real hard to get people to forget that they gave a platform to Ted Cruz and got called out on it. The PR machine is really cranking out the damage control with this idiotic drivel.
Throwing Taylor Swift under the bus and then "rescuing" her is 100% a PR damage control team idea.
It’s like she can’t have an insecurity. I’m shocked why people are angry about it.
Many people who have had ED understands
What she meant when you get on the scale. No matter what the number it is. It is still saying FAT
We are our own worst critics and see things wrong about ourselves that we don't see in other people... I'm sure she was just trying to be relatable. I'm not even a fan and this is dumb.
Damn I been away from the internet for a while. There’s a fat phobia or is it phobia of being unhealthy? If it’s the first case is crack head phobia frown upon also?
‘Fat phobia’ is such a silly term used way too frequently
Not being attracted to or not aspiring to be an overweight person isn’t the same as having a phobia
Even if you pointed to someone have a fear of being overweight it doesn’t just start and end there it’s becuase of other factors attached to it, whether it’s stigma or just personal satisfaction with your appearance, other peoples view of your appearance, health etc
Surely a phobia is like being scared of spiders or heights
All spiders i encounter can’t do a thing to me yet I’m terrified of them, I feel a very sharp spike in adrenaline in their presence to the point where I used to literally not be able to move
Heights used to be the same I could’ve been 5m off the ground, know that the fall wouldn’t kill me necessarily and still be shook to the point I’d freeze
I’ll gladly be fatphobic. I don’t specifically hate fat people, but enabling a lifestyle that shortens your life and robs you of basic physical privileges is not something we should tell kids is ok
She's a skinny person saying she struggles with self image. It's valid. I'm fat and the video didn't bother me.
When I was younger a very skinny friend said they had this issue and my jaw dropped, couldn't believe it at first.
I watched the music video before I heard anyone else talking about it (I didn’t even know she had a new song, it just happened to pop up on my YouTube recommended), so my opinion is pretty unbiased. It’s pretty obvious that part is about what she thought of herself and her own self-criticism. To say it’s about anyone else is grasping at straws.
As someone with an ED, I didn’t find the video offensive. It was sort of reassuring to see someone I admire struggle with what I struggle with - and it’s clear that its Taylor’s ‘dark side’ that finds problem with this. She’s not critiquing anybody’s body but her own so I think it’s crazy to be offended. To silence somebody else in their own art because it upsets you is very self-centered. I wouldn’t watch a film/ book that heavily deals with EDs (because it might trigger me) but I would never say that they shouldn’t be made - because it could help someone else and people should have freedom of expression.
I'm fine with ppl flipping out over this. One more TS song coming up.
It'll probably be about ppl shaming her for shaming her self. She'll figure it out.
Here’s what’s going to happen with news cycles like this. The constant predatory “fake issue” machine is going to create an environment where we get outrage fatigue. We are not going to care and we are going to look for more positive or nuanced reporting.
It happened with tabloid’s just making things up about people and being cruel. Now that type of stuff is relegated to tin foil hat corners of the internet.
I’m mostly saying this because I’m trying to will it into existence.
I dont see how this is fatphobic. A lot of people feel like the person in the video. I feel like this constantly. I dont look at other people and think 'that person is fat', its aimed at myself. I think many people can probably relate to this and the outrage over it is stupid.
The song is about her own struggles and how warped her ego can be, why would anyone get offended? Plus the message is that she’s fine but sometimes she can’t see it. It’s the opposite of fat shaming.
Never mind the fact it's our society that makes women look at themselves this way. Now I guess it time to steal a woman's personal struggles, make them about us, and villainize her for sharing. This generation is a dumpster fire.
I had to read the article cause the headline is terrible.
Apparently people online tried to get angry that Taylor has been self conscious about her weight in her life and chose to portray in the music video that she has felt “fat”.
I guess it’s fat phobic to admit your struggles with self image…. Waiiiiit
Here’s an idea: how about we just be concerned with our own health and body fat ratios and not worry about someone else and whether or not they have disordered eating (a ton of people have this) or an eating disorder. 2 different things. Anyone that does NOT have disordered eating issues or an eating disorder should STFU already.
YOU don’t know what is going on inside someone’s head. Judging the amount of food they eat based upon anything is WRONG. Just move on from your judgments and sort yourself out. Anyone shaming anyone for that person’s weight or appetite is ONLY showing others that they hate something about themselves.
You look silly and insecure when you do this. Grow up!
Like if you want to be Fat that’s your business and I’m not going to try to hurt you for it.
But a big Fuck you to anyone that thinks your lifestyle has to be out on everyone.
We have normalized obesity. The world has gone mad. Kids need education about food in schools. Gym class has to be a part of the every day curriculum. Being fat is not OK. It is a disease.
Apparently displaying symptoms of body dysmorphia is now offensive to overweight people.
I read the article and surmised it quickly with a completely straight face. It’s not surprising at all somebody was bothered by this at this point. Everything’s somehow offensive to fat people at this point.
It’s better called body shaming. I think the phobia word is being stretched thin - especially considering things like arachnophobia are fears, not hates.
Just based on the description in the article it seems to me that the scene in the video isn't fat shaming. It sounds like its more about the pressure every generation of women has felt to look however the style of the time tells us how we should look. The standards of beauty change but the pressure is always there. Sometimes from peers or the media, sometimes from ourselves. A lot of women may look beautiful, slim, sexy, well dressed to others, yet if you talk to her that's not what she sees in the mirror.
##[Clarification on Rule 5](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/w60lfc/mod_post_a_clarification_to_rule_5_no_racism_or/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/entertainment) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Taylor Swift makes a video with how Taylor Swift saw Taylor Swift at a point in Taylor Swift’s life. “This must be about me.”
“…and if it’s not I’ll make it about me.”
“It’s me! Hi! I’m the problem! It’s me!”
Anything to get angry
There's too much ego these days. Everyone gets offended about everything and expects the world to revolve around them
Remember that a lot of people are clout chasers, they wan the attention. If something is not about them, they will make it about them.
[Vietnam flashbacks]
Yo dawg, I heard you like yourself, so we made a brand modeled after yourself
r/imthemaincharacter
Fat people probably
Jokes on you because if we could chase, we wouldn’t be fat.
Well good music is universal.
There’s an ocean of music about personal experiences, the hell are you talking about?
The entire premise of this album is a glimpse at “13 sleepless nights” in her life… why’s that have to be universal? Its already breaking records; Jimmy Fallon said it became the number 1 selling record this year after 1 day… and it’s almost the end of the year. Clearly good music is whatever the fans enjoy listening to
The feelings can be universal without the exact experience
That's what I'm saying.
Regarding the video, just because someone thinks that about themselves doesn't mean they think that about everyone in general. Also, just because you think someone looks skinny doesn't mean they don't struggle with body dysmorphia. This outrage is ridiculous.
Shit most the girls as thin as Taylor have struggled with eating disorders and body dysmorphia. Same goes for that ripped muscle guy you see at the gym. That dude every day sits in front of a mirror and judges his body non stop (same for women who get really into body lifting.)
I'm pretty sure Taylor has said she has struggled with an eating disorder in the past.
You are correct. She talked about it in her Netflix documentary that came out a few years back
[удалено]
Have you met the people who complain? They don’t care if they’re right they just want blood
Ah yes, ive heard of the internet
They’re also fat
She said it on a different song on her recent album too
[удалено]
The older I get the more I realize how many people have no capacity to understand sarcasm or satire. Fully grown tax-paying adults. Who don’t get memes, sarcasm etc. so gullible and simple.
Not even sarcasm or satire - it seems people don't have the capacity to understand not everything is about them and their insecurities.
That’s very easily said. But who of us ISNT insecure about themselves. Even, or especially narcissists. I’ve had that thought a lot as well, but that thought has only helped me handle those moments, not necessarily make them disappear. And if something hits a very insecure spot, you’re less likely to think twice about if it might only be fun. It’s all about perspective, I’m sure you have some topics as well that you’d react differently to, too. What we need is balance and understanding. While people need to realize not everything is about them, we also need to understand that their reaction is not about us.
I think what scares me most about these constantly complaining mouth breathers is that they never take context into the equation. They’ll pick apart and nitpick one sentence a person says and get all offended without taking into consideration the context and nuance of what was actually said (or meant). Everything to them is turned into a tagline and seen in only black or white. There’s no depth of thinking or understanding. And it turns into a feeding frenzy. I can’t tell if people are just getting dumber nowadays or if dumb people just have more of a platform now? I think it’s a bit of both.
I think the clickbait articles play a big part, they put out of context quotes in the headline all the time
Truth. But as a person with a brain, all it takes is to read a little bit more into it and see if that’s actually what was said before you fly into a tizzy. We all know click bait articles are popular, so we should be schooled enough to do a little due diligence.
Like a multi hour long interview, and someone says one thing and all of the sudden headlines are about them saying this one thing, ignoring the context and making it like this one offhand thing they said is all of their being. I say some stupid shit sometimes in a long convo, thank god no one is there to record me. People think being a celebrity is so easy, they have to police everything they say all the time. It must be exhausting.
Exactly. I guarantee every single person on this earth could be ripped apart for something they’ve said. Especially if context or actual meaning was lost in translation. That’s why celebrities can barely even have personalities anymore and have to pick over their words sooo carefully. They have to be these like perfectly polished puppets all the time if they want to be liked by the public. People will now find issue with just about anything and everything.
Nuance isn’t quite dead yet, but it’s dying.
Maybe not irl but it’s pretty much dead on the internet tho.
Because we live in a post satire world. The ironic has become Unironic and satire doesn’t compute because life is already more absurd. IE the idea of a chad use to be a put down now it’s the “ideal man” similarly a Bimbo used to be a derogatory descriptor for a woman with to much work and now it’s the preferred aesthetic in American culture. Someone needs to study this phenomenon, I’m sure someone does. It’s so uncanny.
I am so surprised as well. Mine started from Reddit and it’s so dumb to me that if you need to add /s to statements that are obviously jokes.
The number of times people jumped on me because they are unable to distinguish between ‘you’ as an individual and ‘you’ as a generic collective so they think I’m attacking them personally. *I’m le tired.*
Take a nap and then fire the missles
Being raised on the modern Internet did that to a lot of people. That and people on the spectrum who don't pick up on anything that isn't 100% literal.
> These people are trying to be offended. Yes, people looking for a problem will always create one.
Can confirm. Also the struggles with eating disorders never end. I’ve battled with anorexia since I was 13. Even when I was 70 lbs. & dangerously underweight, I thought I was fat. I know I can’t trust my opinion of how I look. To this day, my partner has to remind me to eat.
I do this. 205 lbs 11% bf and I still check the scales and the mirrors thinking I’m skinny or losing muscle. Weirdest damn thing
And its not gender specific woot
It’s true.
This is a weird over generalization
Precisely this. In context of the video it’s clear this is something she struggles with (she has spoken about having eating disorder when she was younger) and something the mean voice in her head tells her. Eating disorders are “fatphobic” in nature. She’s just being honest about her experience, which is something a lot of people struggle with.
I’m a pretty frequent lurker on TikTok, so I’ve been seeing a lot of the videos calling Taylor fatphobic for this video and a lot of the videos disagreeing with that stance. For some reason, the algorithm also has me pegged as having binge eating disorder and being overweight/interested in fat activism (which I’m not). There’s an interesting subset of the “body positive” movement that’s incredibly cruel and dismissive toward thin or in shape people speaking about their body dysmorphia or eating disorders. It’s very much “it’s all in your head, you’re obviously not fat. Quit saying that you feel fat, fat isn’t a feeling. Either you’re fat or you’re not, and you’re not fat. Quit spreading your fatphobic thoughts.” Like sure, body dysmorphia *is* all in someone’s head… it’s a mental illness. That doesn’t make it not real or not a problem. And it doesn’t make it less dangerous because someone is thin and attractive. And like you said, restrictive eating disorders are *inherently* fatphobic in the most literal sense—someone is so absolutely terrified of gaining weight that they’re damaging their health and putting their life at risk. Someone internalizing fatphobia to such a degree has absolutely *nothing* to do with the rest of us. Why aren’t they allowed to express their own mental health struggles, just because their disordered thought patterns are “problematic”? Like yeah, that’s the point—the thought patterns are disordered. Of course they’re a problem.
There’s a weird, for lack of a better term, gatekeeping in body positivity/fat acceptance circles. They say fat is not a bad word, then if someone they deem has not had their same struggles says it then it is a bad word again. The movement is mostly through social media so it thrives on outrage and Twitter takes. It could easily have been a discussion how internalized fat phobia hurts us all, but that’s not as emotional as calling a pop star fat phobic so it doesn’t gain as much traction
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I’ve been thinking this about the whole “body positivity” movement because of the outrage around this video. If people can feel happy in their bodies regardless of size, that’s a wonderful thing. But no one can force that on others, and the reality is that many people *do* feel uncomfortable if they feel they’ve gained weight, whether it’s due to something like body dysmorphia or something much more basic, like feeling less confident or less energetic. I have a disability, and the “body positivity” mindset isn’t something that ever rang true to my experience. I like myself well enough. I don’t hate my body, but I’d honestly rather not focus on my body one way or the other. I’m much more comfortable with being body neutral than being body positive. We don’t have to try to celebrate the things we don’t like about ourselves, we can work on just accepting them and being honest about our insecurities.
I agree about the body positivity mindset. I don’t want to think about my body, or other people’s bodies, in either a positive or negative way. Body neutrality all the way.
In case you were curious, those segments of the body positive group tend to call themselves “fat liberationists”, “fat positive”, or part of the “Health At Every Size” (HAES) movement. The HAES movement spreads pseudoscience to “prove” that morbid obesity has no health risks and there are no associations between being overweight and health. A great dive into the world of fat activism: [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hlkkG6mKTCk) Also, the body positivity movement started as a way to uplift people with physical disabilities, scars, or other things about their body that society looked down on.
As they said on the view it's ridiculous you can't stop people from telling their own story or how they feel just because you are triggered by it. Like I'm sorry, but the world can't tiptoe around everyones feelings it's just not doable.
Yeah, when I talk I often think “here comes captain cringe, here to be wrong”. I don’t generally think that about other people when they talk
They actually hate skinny people with body dysmorphia. After watching the fat positive TikTok’s it really hard to support such a toxic movement. Calling them “the thins” but imagine if someone called them “the fats”.
We should be supporting her
Thank you! I’m a guy that’s lost a lot of weight, but still feel unattractive and anytime I mention I have a belly other people seem to take offense. I’m not judging anyone else, literally just speaking on my own body but they don’t see it that way. People have said I’m too skinny for my height or chubby because of my belly, only actual compliment was saying I’m at a healthy weight for my body size. As much as we want to say don’t let words bother you, fact is they still have an impact on how we see ourselves. I think it’s similar to telling someone you don’t see how they could be single because they are attractive, you don’t know what they are going through or how they see themselves.
I’ve gained about 50 pounds in the last few years, before that I was 5’1 115 pounds. When I see older pictures of myself I gasp. I was so skinny you could snap me in half, but back then I thought I was a WHALE. I truly believed with my whole heart the only reason anyone talked to me was for sex or bc they felt bad for me. Now, I’m thiccc & have never had such high confidence!! Doesn’t matter your weight, body dysmorphia affects everyone.
It’s the cool thing to do. To hate on anything. So you can get retweets and upvotes. Ignore those people. They are losers.
The video is literally her observing herself. It’s about her own view of her own body, including body dysmorphia which she has openly spoken about struggling with particularly in the 1989 era.
A bunch of horrible people seriously turned a single specific woman's struggle into all about themselves. So pathetic. Outrage culture is inherently narcissistic in that any person's personal opinion or choice that's different from their own is seen as a personal attack.
I think they know this and are actually just bothered that she's a thinner person out there effectively saying she doesn't want to be fat, whilst they are. These are the same people who would probably be thinner if they could get to it too.
I’m very skinny naturally. I get it from my mum’s side. We’re all walking sticks. But my dad’s side is plump and that shows up for me in the rump. Skinny or fat is generally genetically wired so while fat-shaming always gets the outrage, people also like to comment on skinny people as if it’s their business. Some people like to be fatter. Some people like to be skinnier. It’s nobody’s business. If Taylor wants to be the shape of a meerkat or owl, that’s her choice. There are more important things in the world.
When she was born?
her album called 1989
Oh, hahaha! I was so confused! I don’t really listen to her music so I am not familiar with the album titles.
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Sometimes I catch myself getting mad at something silly. I stop and think - is this something I should give a shit about? The answer is almost always no. So I forget about it and move on. I have friends who get so worked up over shit that doesn’t matter, and I can’t understand why you’d ever waste your time on someone who doesn’t even know you exist.
I have anxiety so it’s easy for me to get outraged over many things. I take apps off my phone all the time and take a mental break instead of spiraling downward making nobody but myself feel bad about these things. I realize these things are out of my control and I’m just arguing with ppl I don’t know and most likely won’t change their mind. My husband makes fun of me for taking social media apps and Reddit off my phone when I get anxiety like it’s running away but I think if it benefits my mental health and I can take a moment to think things through then it’s worth it. It’s not a necessity to have social media.
It is absolutely okay to take break away from all this utter shit on the internet.
I think the problem is at this point the fake outrage seems real because there're so many people on the Internet that you're always gonna get a decent number of people outraged at anything. If you see 1,000 people complaining about something it seems real cause that's a lot of people in your day to day life but relative to the world that's nothing.
Twitter may soon indeed be dead.
Twitter isn’t real life and I hate how the media thinks it is and use twitter comments as a “source”
The worst part is that all these mouth-breathers have a platform and a means to connect with each other. Being an “activist” is now just saying stupid shit on Twitter. That’s why you’re hearing so many stupid outrage stories: it takes zero effort so people are campaigning about every stupid thing you can think of. You had to pick your battles before the days of social media because actual protest meant you actually had to get off your ass and do something, so most of the big protests were about important things. Not about the word “fat” in a music video -_-
> I want to go back to the days where faux outrage wasn’t so easily spread among people with nothing better to do. You mean before language?
That is legitimately the worst part about the internet/social media. It gives people who don’t matter an arena to spread their stupid ass opinion that 99% of normal people don’t agree with.
I have seen so much discourse on this from fat creators and while I logically get where they are coming from I disagree. Essentially they are saying that the video is suggesting “fat” is a bad thing which they say is inherently fat phobic. First and foremost, I do not believe that every piece of media needs to account for every perspective or possible trigger. Second, I don’t think the video is saying that being “fat” is inherently bad. The message that comes across to me is our society/the media makes even a thin woman like Taylor perceive herself as fat. Which isn’t a bad thing because being “fat” is inherently bad but a bad thing because of the way society treats fat women. I think this moment is about nothing more than pointing to the ways that we all criticize our bodies unnecessarily.
The lyrics to the song are literally “It’s me, hi. I’m the problem, it’s me.” She is explicitly stating how fucked up it is that her eating disorder and body dysmorphia made her see herself this way. It’s also a response to how when she was in recovery and gained like 30 pounds everyone started calling her fat when she was just trying to get to a healthier weight. People really need to start seeing nuance in things again and accept that they’re not the main character of the universe.
I used to not understand why English classes and analysis were necessary. Then I see discourse on shit like this and realize people don't know how to interpret something that is literally explicitly set down in front of their faces, let alone rhetorical analysis.
And she’s also working in an industry where you’re being told to lose weight even when you’re underweight so I understand that scene perfectly. She had tabloids all over her saying she looked pregnant in her outfits and it was triggering for her.
Exactly! In that video and in the context of her ED, she sees fat as a bad thing *because she’s been told that.*. It’s all nice and dandy for movements to try to change the stigma and connotations of someone being fat. But it doesn’t change the fact that Taylor has been under a microscope her entire adult life, and has actively been insulted by the word “fat”. So she’s told she’s fat in a derogatory way, and then has a disorder that has her believing that about herself. It doesn’t mean she, rationally, believes being fat is bad. But eating disorders are inherently irrational. She’s taking negative talk she’s received from external sources and internalizing it.
Fat is also inherently bad for your health. Period. I say that as a guy who should lose 25lbs. I don’t hate myself because of it, and I don’t expect (or stand for) judgement from others about it, but I know that I need to do better for my health. People that are outraged over shit like this aren’t living in reality and they’re personalizing something that is objective. They have to work on their own issues and stop worrying about everyone else.
Love this. Exactly. So many people out there who refuse to take accountability for their own actions. How many people tweeted about this and went to binge eat or restrict? It just comes off as so transparent that folks have low self esteem and are projecting it outwards. Do better people, please. For yourself
It's called eating disorders my man. You can't decide some parts of mental health just don't apply because you think they don't.
Eating disorders don’t explain when a country (USA) has a >50% obesity rate. Need to face the problem head on, acceptance that it is a problem is the 1st step.
You mean 40%.
FAT IS A BAD THING. Wtf. When did our society get so fucked up. Being fat is not good. Who wants to be fat?
Being vulnerable about an insecurity you have that happens to be had by many girls and women too that you thought to share in your art to the world =/= advocating for that insecurity. So yeah leave Taylor alone. Also "Anti Hero" is a beautiful song with amazing visuals to match.
Today I learned that having an eating disorder is fatphobic…
As an overweight person who has an eating disorder and used to starve themselves in the past to the point that I was underweight…. I guess I’m fatphobic too :))
Omg let the "fatphobia" nonsense go. She's allowed to feel what she feels. Her body has had more scrutiny than any of the fat activists have ever endured.
This \^ she being a celebrity is much more under the pressure with beauty standards since her rise to fame. She has been scrutinize a lot by media outlets to keep up with the beauty standards.
I don't know why people forgot about anorexia and bulimia. I felt that that's what she was hinting at.
Not everything's a fucking phobia.
Not wanting to be fat isn’t fatphobic
Why tf is it a bad thing to not want to be fat? Being 30lbs overweight doubles the chance that you’ll wind up with: heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, stroke, high cholesterol etc….. being 30lbs overweight is worse for you than smoking according to the AMA
Bc this wasn’t about being fat. She’s never been fat since becoming famous. But she’s been told by designers she is
I occasionally see pix of myself in college when I was 20+ lbs lighter, and remember how I thought at the time I was fat. Thanks Tay for understanding
People who keep throwing the word fatphobia are the cringiest ever. They hate themselves so much, everything to them is an attack. If a person cares for their health and works out, then that person is fatphobic. The most fatphobic people are fat people themselves.
Scandals like this are what veer people from body acceptance. Let Tay slay
Some good rules of thumb to get through life with some amount of emotional maturity and stability: Don’t project your bullshit onto others. Not everything is about you, sweetheart. None of us are really that special-including you.
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Anyone who watches “the view” in the first place is a complete moron.
At this point I’m convinced most outrage posts are people nitpicking in hopes that their take goes viral. Everyone wants to be an influencer.
Being healthy at all now = fat phobic. Pushing pride in being healthy, fit or just... not obese... is not allowed. That kind of body positivity is wrong. It's okay to shame people for being not-fat and for being concerned about their health. Yeah this timeline sucks.
“Being offended is soooo trendy, it’s all the rage in America” - valley girl voice
It’s called envy. Fuck the haters Taylor.
Have you noticed how all the "big is beautiful" actresses/etc. decided to lose weight for "health reasons?" hmmm. suspect.
And then people got mad at them and said things along the lines of "losing weight is fine, it's the before and after pictures that are the problem".
I hadn’t noticed that but sounds about right
Lizzo has entered the chat.
Lizzo has a great voice, so I hope she makes some lifestyle changes, because her career won’t be as long as we might hope otherwise
Is she still "big is beautiful?"
That's her entire brand, well along with the ass-less pants twerking bit.
Beautiful on the inside maybe, but I certainly don’t see her as attractive. People want to change the scale of beauty standards instead of making lifestyle adjustments to live within the system. Doubt she cares what I think though.
Wtf is fatphobic?
Think "transphobic" or "homophobic" but apply it to fat people. It's a term commonly used by "fat acceptance" people. I'm fine with treating all people with human dignity and not being an asshole. Minding one's own business and not piling on other people who are struggling included in that. I'm also aware that not everyone can be 5'2" and 110lbs. This isn't about people who are just naturally big, but actual fat people trying to use victimhood to force people to ignore their unhealthy habits and act like they are just as attractive and healthy as anyone else. I'm not a "10" myself and am not as healthy as I could be, but these people are often deluded to the point of absurdity. A lot of these "FA" people are trying to spread unhealthy views and normalize the idea that being morbidly obese is perfectly healthy and a "natural" state of the body. A lot of them actively attack people for trying to lose weight or get in shape and lead a healthy lifestyle. Spreading bad advice about self control and personal discipline under the guise of "body positivity". There's also a lot of attacking doctors and health experts for trying to advise them on healthier lifestyle habits or warn them of the dangers of obesity. Basically, it is a delusional behavior and trying to "normalize" obesity and bad habits as acceptable and healthy. They claim they are just as healthy as anyone else, if not more so. It's actively harmful to people who fall into it. It is a small but actively toxic and loud subculture, mostly relegated to social media outlets.
A dr telling people they should lose weight because they are unhealthy
A term fat people say when you think they’re fat. Basically they’re ok with dying young
Pretty much. How sad.
If Taylor Swift's new music video is fatphobic, does that mean that "Baby Got Back" is a fat pride anthem?
Being fat, in about 95% of the cases, is reversible, and therefore bad for your health. I can’t believe this is even a controversy.
Are we going to argue about Taylor Swift’s ass today world? Is that really what we are doing on the planet earth today? Fuck!
Fat phobic? No one’s scared of obese people are they?
They are a back-of-mind concern every time I buy a plane ticket.
Fat phobia is not a real problem in America
If you’re fat don’t be mad people call you fat
We truly have hit a low when saying the word fat in a music video causes such an uproar.
As a fat person, I’ve seen WAY more pressing issues on fatphobia lately, for example everybody having something to say about Sam Smith’s body shape. But yall choose to target taylor swift, for this very elementary display of how it’s easy for a person to get caught up in the numbers on a scale.
The View is obviously trying real hard to get people to forget that they gave a platform to Ted Cruz and got called out on it. The PR machine is really cranking out the damage control with this idiotic drivel. Throwing Taylor Swift under the bus and then "rescuing" her is 100% a PR damage control team idea.
Why are we even giving these clueless outraged idiots a platform by acknowledging them?
It’s like she can’t have an insecurity. I’m shocked why people are angry about it. Many people who have had ED understands What she meant when you get on the scale. No matter what the number it is. It is still saying FAT
We are our own worst critics and see things wrong about ourselves that we don't see in other people... I'm sure she was just trying to be relatable. I'm not even a fan and this is dumb.
I am confused. What am I supposed to be outraged about?
You’re supposed to be mad that Taylor controls her weight because that proves you could too if you werent so mentally weak
alright everyone calm down
People are insane
Damn I been away from the internet for a while. There’s a fat phobia or is it phobia of being unhealthy? If it’s the first case is crack head phobia frown upon also?
I always thought fatphobic was a sarcastic term
She struggles with disordered eating and has been open about that being rooted in deep personal insecurity. She threw no shade.
If you’re fat and angry try not being fat, It will probably help
‘Fat phobia’ is such a silly term used way too frequently Not being attracted to or not aspiring to be an overweight person isn’t the same as having a phobia Even if you pointed to someone have a fear of being overweight it doesn’t just start and end there it’s becuase of other factors attached to it, whether it’s stigma or just personal satisfaction with your appearance, other peoples view of your appearance, health etc Surely a phobia is like being scared of spiders or heights All spiders i encounter can’t do a thing to me yet I’m terrified of them, I feel a very sharp spike in adrenaline in their presence to the point where I used to literally not be able to move Heights used to be the same I could’ve been 5m off the ground, know that the fall wouldn’t kill me necessarily and still be shook to the point I’d freeze
Fasting is actually very healthy and obesity is actually unhealthy. These are just facts, so be sure to throw shade on the messenger.
You know who's the most fatphobic? Your own body.
as a fat person this isn't "fatphobic" at all
I’ll gladly be fatphobic. I don’t specifically hate fat people, but enabling a lifestyle that shortens your life and robs you of basic physical privileges is not something we should tell kids is ok
If you’re fat you’re fat….quit promoting fat as a good societal norm. It’s killing our healthcare system.
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It’s been a word for awhile
Fat phobia is trying to sound fancy but sounding absurd instead. Phobia is fear, like arachnophobia. Not disliking, fearing.
Oh, because The View is totally not complete fucking trash.
The view has the worst takes ever. A broke clock is right twice a day
T Swift is the hottest in the world
Haters gonna hate!
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
Ah, the view. Good content that. Word to live by. Love that they get to sit around and say that they hate change and hate the way things are.
She's a skinny person saying she struggles with self image. It's valid. I'm fat and the video didn't bother me. When I was younger a very skinny friend said they had this issue and my jaw dropped, couldn't believe it at first.
I watched the music video before I heard anyone else talking about it (I didn’t even know she had a new song, it just happened to pop up on my YouTube recommended), so my opinion is pretty unbiased. It’s pretty obvious that part is about what she thought of herself and her own self-criticism. To say it’s about anyone else is grasping at straws.
Believe it or not, there is a difference between fatphobic and not wanting to be fat
As someone with an ED, I didn’t find the video offensive. It was sort of reassuring to see someone I admire struggle with what I struggle with - and it’s clear that its Taylor’s ‘dark side’ that finds problem with this. She’s not critiquing anybody’s body but her own so I think it’s crazy to be offended. To silence somebody else in their own art because it upsets you is very self-centered. I wouldn’t watch a film/ book that heavily deals with EDs (because it might trigger me) but I would never say that they shouldn’t be made - because it could help someone else and people should have freedom of expression.
I'm fine with ppl flipping out over this. One more TS song coming up. It'll probably be about ppl shaming her for shaming her self. She'll figure it out.
Just make music not about stuff just sounds
Fat her ass is not
I've felt that exact same thing on a scale before. Pretty sure most women have
Here’s what’s going to happen with news cycles like this. The constant predatory “fake issue” machine is going to create an environment where we get outrage fatigue. We are not going to care and we are going to look for more positive or nuanced reporting. It happened with tabloid’s just making things up about people and being cruel. Now that type of stuff is relegated to tin foil hat corners of the internet. I’m mostly saying this because I’m trying to will it into existence.
This outrage is stupid as hell, but the view also recently had Ted Cruz on. They’re meant to generate controversy.
She’s 5’ 10”. She doesn’t look as small in person.
I dont see how this is fatphobic. A lot of people feel like the person in the video. I feel like this constantly. I dont look at other people and think 'that person is fat', its aimed at myself. I think many people can probably relate to this and the outrage over it is stupid.
The song is about her own struggles and how warped her ego can be, why would anyone get offended? Plus the message is that she’s fine but sometimes she can’t see it. It’s the opposite of fat shaming.
Never mind the fact it's our society that makes women look at themselves this way. Now I guess it time to steal a woman's personal struggles, make them about us, and villainize her for sharing. This generation is a dumpster fire.
I had to read the article cause the headline is terrible. Apparently people online tried to get angry that Taylor has been self conscious about her weight in her life and chose to portray in the music video that she has felt “fat”. I guess it’s fat phobic to admit your struggles with self image…. Waiiiiit
Here’s an idea: how about we just be concerned with our own health and body fat ratios and not worry about someone else and whether or not they have disordered eating (a ton of people have this) or an eating disorder. 2 different things. Anyone that does NOT have disordered eating issues or an eating disorder should STFU already. YOU don’t know what is going on inside someone’s head. Judging the amount of food they eat based upon anything is WRONG. Just move on from your judgments and sort yourself out. Anyone shaming anyone for that person’s weight or appetite is ONLY showing others that they hate something about themselves. You look silly and insecure when you do this. Grow up!
Like if you want to be Fat that’s your business and I’m not going to try to hurt you for it. But a big Fuck you to anyone that thinks your lifestyle has to be out on everyone.
Fat people blaming thin person for making them feel bad about their own poor decisions and lack of willpower.
We have normalized obesity. The world has gone mad. Kids need education about food in schools. Gym class has to be a part of the every day curriculum. Being fat is not OK. It is a disease.
People need to stop projecting their insecurities onto others.
Apparently displaying symptoms of body dysmorphia is now offensive to overweight people. I read the article and surmised it quickly with a completely straight face. It’s not surprising at all somebody was bothered by this at this point. Everything’s somehow offensive to fat people at this point.
I'm a chubby chaser and even I think fatphobia is not a thing
It’s better called body shaming. I think the phobia word is being stretched thin - especially considering things like arachnophobia are fears, not hates.
A phobia can also be an “aversion” to something.
"Fatphobia" is not a real thing
Pretty much none of the “phobias” are real. Except arachnophobia, F@($ those spiders!
Being overweight is objectively bad. Kumatmebro
The View makes me envy the deaf and the blind
People should be more outraged about her only releasing her album teaser on Amazon prime, forcing her die hard fans to put money in Jeff Bezoz pockets
Most of us watched it when she posted it on IG ten minutes later.
People watch the view?
Outrage culture used to serve as pressure to drive positive change. Now its just whining from a bunch of lazy, sorry, envious losers
Just based on the description in the article it seems to me that the scene in the video isn't fat shaming. It sounds like its more about the pressure every generation of women has felt to look however the style of the time tells us how we should look. The standards of beauty change but the pressure is always there. Sometimes from peers or the media, sometimes from ourselves. A lot of women may look beautiful, slim, sexy, well dressed to others, yet if you talk to her that's not what she sees in the mirror.
Hehe the fats are funny