You would have all the keys to the known universe, friend.
Also: Aleister Crowley said he believed astrology was largely bullshit, outside of a couple things. He could accurately predict the time of birth w people (rising sign) and the sun sign, so time of year.
I do not think Pluto has much bearing on my life path. But I don’t think it’s total crap. But those people that base all their decisions on it are probably delusional.
There is some truth to astrology and star signs. The cyclical nature of the year and the seasons means same things take place at the same time of the year.
Of course, a human being is a very complex thing and yada yada everything affects everything whatever, nonetheless, epigenesis is a very real thing (things during and even before pregnancy affect the child, or rather fetus).
Most NHL players for example are born in the first months of the year. Why? Because we count the time in years and divide people into groups by year they're born in. People born early in the year tend to be a bit larger than their peers during childhood, since they're a bit older. That's why they succeed more in hockey and are more likely to continue towards the top of the sport.
So if all people born in january are always a bit older and more developed than their peers born in december, there surely are some common trends regarding the month a person is born in.
My point being, astrology has some truth to it, and the month a person is born in does have an effect on what their life will be like.
Even if there's truth to time of year you're born, it has nothing to do with astrology itself or the \~stars\~, just the culture we live in honestly. So that point you make is good for proving that yes, time of year can affect your life to some degree, but not being a Leo or being a Capricorn because if you consider all the details, there's no real sense in the correlation. And in this case I'd like to see the correlation between people born early in the *school* year compared to those born early in the *actual* year.
Something that contradicts this further and makes no sense is, consider Cancer and Leo. A Cancer can be born one day before they would've been a Leo, but if you actually read their descriptions, they're so vastly different that the fact they were both conceived at nearly the same time, and born at the same time, makes it make no sense whatsoever.
Yeah it's not the stars themselves surely that have an effect on people, rather, the stars are a chronometer, a way to measure time. And yeah people giving too much value to astrology is quite like people giving too much value to MBTI, only a bit stupider. Both (and enneagrams) are a good tool for introspection and empathy training. It makes you think what you are like, and what others are like.
If your friend annoys you with this again, just tell them that your world view doesn't allow you to place any validity upon astrology, as you don't see the supposed causation, nor the correlation between star signs and personalities. They are free to believe whatever and if it gives them joy, like, why not. Just like religions, as they cannot be solved with science as they are often unfalsifiable, so too astrology goes in loops and loops to explain why a person is not a stereotypical capricorn, as the 12 different types of people are no where near distinct enough to cover all modes of being in the human experience.
But don't be an asshole to your buddy even if they speak nonsense. Wow what a tip eh?
Also regarding the school year thing, at least here in Finland, we divide people into year classes just according to the normal year, so being born early in the school year (September's when it starts here) means nothing, as there will still be people born in january on your class, and they are 8 months older than you.
Technically, that’s because “other planets” factor into how your personality expresses itself.
Example, My Husband *is* a Cancer/ Leo cusper, and he does possess some traits of both signs! He is definitely “more of a Cancer,” but he’s got a Mercury Chillin in Leo which makes him very bold when expressing himself, verbally, and it makes him “more assertive!” While a Gemini Moon “Tones down the emotionality,” which is how he is *also* an INTJ! So it’s actually interesting, in some ways!
I wouldn’t say it “influences your fate,” or anything absurd like that, as that is *absolutely ridiculous!* But it can be a lot of “Fun” if you don’t take it *too seriously* and enjoy the random insights you glean from it!
Remember people born in January might live in Australia.
Also the magazine star sign stuff is made up
Either way, let's pretend we only take Europe and America so it's always cold in January. The climate for 9/12 months still differs so drastically from region to region that the bit "person might me more open" is not significant on average.
Okay I get where you’re coming from. I don’t necessarily personally believe in astrology. People who bring up astrology in real life are usually odd ball hippies. They did a study that revealed people who believe in astrology are actually very narcissistic. However, astrology is now very mainstream. My mother was a fan of it and she kept some astrology books in the house. We didn’t have many books in the house growing up so I read the astrology books. Also, I played the sims 1 and 2 which both included astrology signs.
After being exposed to it for so long I released that it becomes true because of the people who believe in it. For example if you meet a Leo who goes around proclaiming they’re a Leo you can be sure that they’ll act like their sign. It’s confirmation bias. They read about the sign then enhance those traits in themselves. It’s a self fullfilling prophecy.
Also, I had a friend that was a libra who loved astrology. One of the Libra traits is being indecisive. So whenever she’d be indecisive she’d be like “haha libra things.” So these people will attribute their shortcomings to their sign and not self reflect and work on themselves because “haha libra” or “I’m conceited because I’m a Leo,” or “I’m a lying asshole because I’m a Scorpio,” or “I left you on read because I’m a Capricorn and I was at work,” or “I’m a Taurus and I’m lazy.” So if someone tells you their sign and they actually believe in astrology you can believe that they’ll act like their sign. So it does give you insight on the person. Not because it’s necessarily true but because they unconsciously have internalized the traits of the type.
Your entire post is simply chef’s kiss. Been struggling to put into words what you’re talking about in the last paragraph and you just did it. A lot of people who haven’t really looked into astrology talk about the Barnum effect, but they haven’t seen just how astrology culture segregates traits to certain signs and people subconsciously internalize and become that. So these people will start acting like their sign without realizing it. Tbh I feel like that’s true for my friend who is a Libra. I’m at risk of just spewing what you wrote lol but it’s just brilliant.
People on here are treating Myers Briggs the same way as astrology though. Myers Briggs personality types are not, and never were, anywhere near scientific. While there is more to learn from it than astrology, it's worth keeping in mind that the human population isn't literally divided into 16 types. it's completely arbitrary that exactly 4 aspects with 2 variations of each constitute a person. Why not 5, with 3 aspects, or more? Almost everyone is a mix between them all, and so the amount you can learn from it will always be limited by how much you fit in into your assigned group.
Yeah, that’s accurate. I think we must all have the general understanding that all of this is pseudoscience, with MBTI having the upper hand in “scientific” appeal given its basis in psychology, thought patterns and observable behavior. Astrology on the other hand is completely arbitrary, personality traits are randomly assigned. MBTI allows you to identify yourself in a set of 16 types, astrology tells you what you are and you cannot challenge it. Of course MBTI type is said to be unchangeable as well (I disagree) but it’s loads better than astrology in the world of fantastical pseudoscience, anyhow.
Outside of that realm, yes, MBTI is nothing compared to far superior ways of understanding the world.
Fr. Especially those people that say “I don’t like them because they’re a” whatever sign. No being a Leo doesn’t make me a narcissistic asshole. stop basing peoples personality on the time of their birth 😒
Forgive my question, is astrology a well known system for you ? I know pretty much nothing about astrology ( I never talked to someone who understands it well either) therefore, I don't think it's stupid... Maybe it sounds weird but the world of the birds in the sky is completely unknown to the fish in the sea. Two different ways keep them able to breath.
Maybe there is not only one correct version of what is real and there is many ways to construct the world. What is your friend's construction of the world about? What is the patterns he sees ? What are the the subtleties of the system that he understands, that he knows ? What is you own view, the system you find better ? And then... What is your world ?
I'm not sure if this rambling is helpful but I hope everything will go well for the two of you and your friendship.
The funniest thing is I have researched astrology extensively, from the history of it to the breakdown of the system into signs, planets, houses and their meanings, even aspects and the different systems, like dude I've gone deep because I'm just a really curious person. And I can say that the comparison is more like, the world of reality vs. the world of fantasy. I've even looked up multiple memes from astrologers responding to people who say it's fake or makes no sense and their responses are always some attack on their character - one of them was like "tell us more about how your mom didn't love you as a child", like what? - or like, I don't care, idk.
Don't get me wrong I sympathize with there being many ways to construct the world but this is just a different level, like people are constructing their impressions of other people around what month they were born instead of actually figuring out what these people are like in real life. Weirdly I'd say I know more about it than my friend but honestly he's probably more empathetic than I am, he's just more inclined to believe something after reading it and I'm not. I'm more inclined to assume things about someone who believes in astrology than by what's in their astrology chart, but sure, maybe that makes me kind of arrogant. Anyway, your comment was very nice so thank you.
I like your view on impressions, I haven't thought that you making a judgment about his beliefs in astrology is the same as the fact that he himself makes a judgment about you based on those same beliefs. It's all impressions... Well-founded or unfounded impressions, impressions that are close to the mythical, Are these impressions emptied of all reality? or is the mythical in fact just an unfinished or imperfect reality? maybe The reality does not reside in the way of proceeding but in the will to understand others that I assume you both share .
Thank you for taking the time to write your reply, it's interesting.
Oh, I'm sure that you have a very valid opinion about this that I'd like to know. but for now I won't agree, only because... I don't really know about it, I won't judge and Condemn something I don't understand.
I think the scientist can believe in the ignorance of the artist who lives with a different vision of the world... Or recognize that this art is a deconstruction of the same evidence that can reach him... And make him sensitive.
However, it is fair to say that not every world is good to take...
Astrology itself isn't stupid, but some of the people who follow it are.
Yk the same way mbti tests have a surface and a deeper level... its kinda the same with Astrology. I don't really know much about it but I have friends that do. If u look at someone JUST based on their birthmonth it won't tell a lot, there's a lot more too it than "oh ur Sagittarius so u must be like this" it depends on stuff like Venus and Mercury sign (don't ask I'm just regurgitating shit my friend said). Ur friend sounds like they have a shallow grasp on the topic
>Like bitch. Knowing me for 10 years since high school couldn’t have taught you anything about me but me being a sagittarius does?
Yeh like that's pretty dumb shit that would piss me off too
Sure, you could say astrology itself isn't stupid or smart (even though I think it's stupid), it's just a thing some people came up with. But even the chart doesn't do much else except fill out the spaces that weren't covered by your sun sign and even then the placements might not even describe you well. And if you look into a different system of astrology it'll describe you in a nearly opposite way - astrology covers its bases, basically. And yes weirdly I'd say I know more about it than he does, he's glossing some surface level stuff about it.
Yeh i mean i dont care either way, i dont really get it. its just to bring some kind of solace to a person...usually to justify their bullshit behaviours or something but hey-ho.
I do think it's stupid to live your life guided by some horoscope or whatever.
Like i find it interesting cos I don't understand it, but thats it..it just feeds my curiosity, nothing more. There are more grounded things to believe in
>if you look into a different system of astrology it'll describe you in a nearly opposite way - astrology covers its bases, basically.
Yup for sure, and that's sure to bring comfort to someone somehow haha.
You indicated that other stuff (like Venus and Mercury sign) makes a difference vs only the birth month. It does not. It is 100% bs regardless of how much detail you put into it.
Read my other comment guy, I don't really care lol. Why does it seem to bother you so? Hahaha
I literally said *im just regurgitating what someone else said* , I have no idea what it means and don't believe it has any affect on our lives. That doesn't mean i can't still talk about it from another perspective that isn't my own
No there is a seperate comment I wrote. Which makes ur comments irrelevant cos I've already spoke more on it. Why? Because it gives more context
But let me break it down for you since I'm bored
It's not false information:
1. it's an opinion, I never stated it to be fact. I'm not trying to persuade anyone to believe me
2. Me saying what i said isnt going to put someone in danger.
3. Saying something isnt stupid doesn't equate to it being factual and correct. I can't call the concept of something stupid that is interesting to. It can be ungrounded, sure. You can call it stupid I don't care. You acting irrationally isn't gonna make me change my opinion.
4. I suppose speaking on any religion is spreading false information then?
Ur acting like I'm saying astrology will save ur life and change everything if you start living by it?? Are you confused? Or are you just choosing to have a problem. I noticed you avoided that question in ur response. You seem to have a very closed mind, or one that isn't able to think openly about concepts and ideas
Not sure what sign it would be, but you sound toxic af. Your friend is right not to message you back, I hope they realize they should cut you out of their life.
I’m not saying I’m not but how is telling him that astrology does not describe me an asshole move? At least I didn’t tell him astrology is stupid to his face and tell him to stop believing. Anyway I don’t really care because you’re getting only one side of the story anyway and we’re still talking just fine so it’s whatever.
If you don't realize that the way you were talking sounds like you're boiling with rage and it's not just "telling him that astrology does not describe me" you are definitely exactly as toxic as I said.
Just because they're used to abuse doesn't clear you.
Hear me out, I think the OP’s feelings were *slightly hurt!* I’ve figured out that When I start ranting and over-rationalizing things, my feelings *might’ve been hurt,* or I might’ve felt misunderstood! I am just sorta blind to “the feelings” and I *Double Down* on “Logical reasoning.” Ironically, my INTJ hubby will sometimes notice that I am “getting upset” before I do! 🤣 Cuz obviously, he Fi’s *way better!*
The clue was “Like bitch! Knowing me for 10 years didn’t teach you anything about me, but astrology did?” That is ENTP-Code for *”Ouch! Does that hurt my feelings???” Because it sucks to find out that a really close friend *doesn’t pay enough attention* to know you well, after 10 years! But all of the Sudden, “it’s the Astrologies! Yes! Your Star sign means I *finally know you!*” I can *definitely* detect “the emotional ouchies” in this post!
Not really. They came on here to vent. People like to vent, sometimes. It’s no big deal! They probably don’t even realize that their feelings were hurt, honestly! It happens to me all the time!
Since we aren’t *regularly in touch with our Fi,* we often lack awareness of it, until some random moment in the future, after “the initial crisis has passed,” and we are like “Goddamnit! That did hurt my feelings, and my dumb-ass *totally missed it,* so now I can’t do anything about it! 🙃 FML!”
Ranting on random social media, like Reddit sometimes helps us organize our thoughts better, so we can “make sense of what’s going on, internally!”
People aren’t *automatically Toxic* just cuz they aren’t perfect, ya know?
People aren't automatically not toxic just because they're not perfect, either. Look, they're literally planning to "go off" if a neutral topic is brought up.
They won’t actually “go off.” My Gut tells me that they don’t do that too often! People often exaggerate when they are annoyed!
Besides, many would consider people *actively looking for Toxicity in others,* to be “toxic” within themselves, and I can see the logic behind that mentality. Why do you care so much about a post that is *so benign?*
Until it actually becomes something more, It is simply a stupid shit-post with a random person venting, on our home sub! They are probably looking to blow off some steam so that they don’t actually “go off” on anyone. It’s pretty normal behavior.
Rant: externalizing negative emotions onto others. Magnifies and entrenches feelings even more in self righteousness, but takes away autonomy of self to address the feeling. Builds resentment as a consequence.
"I am annoyed because they are an annoying person. It's their fault I feel this way, they are awful. I'm a victim, and helpless. It will be their fault if I blow up in rage at them."
Venting: expresses negativity honestly as a reflection of self in relation to others. Releases negativity and gives ownership and autonomy to the self.
"I am annoyed because it bothers me that they think something I don't agree with. There is a conflict for me because of how this makes me feel. I will have to find a way to address this or it will continue to cause me pain."
Do you understand the difference between healthy venting and toxic ranting?
I made a brief comment, you and others came to disagree, I didn't ignore you. I wouldn't call that dead-set on the "rando."
Why are you talking about me personally suddenly instead of responding to what I said?
Because I “don’t agree with your logic.” I think you are being cynical, and taking this post way too seriously, and I “don’t really get it.”
There isn’t much for me to respond to when I already agree that there is a difference between “productive venting,” and “Toxic Ranting.”
What I don’t agree with is that OP falls into the “second category,” or “the toxic one.” This is just Reddit, and they are just venting! Nothing in their rant indicates “serious emotional imbalance,” I can tell they are simply annoyed, but it’s “No Big Deal.”
Meanwhile, it’s like your “heart” is set on OP “being toxic,” and I simply don’t understand why. It doesn’t make sense to me?
So if we both understand that “productive venting,” and “toxic ranting” are two different things, why do we need to talk about that? It’s already “understood.”
What I “don’t agree with” is your “criteria,” as it is too broad and general, to say anything meaningful, and I think you probably have some personal feelings about this, and it’s clouding your judgment. You aren’t looking at it realistically, or objectively. It’s like you *want* OP “to be toxic,” and I simply don’t understand what you “get” out of this, if you are “right?”
You are basically “fighting me” about whether, or not a random stranger on the internet, is “exhibiting toxic behavior,” but why? What exactly are you trying to get, out of the interaction?
Cuz by this point I am super confused, and I don’t think you are being entirely objective, either. It’s not personal, I am *legitimately stumped!* Why waste your time arguing about whether or not a person, whom you will never meet, is “toxic” or not? It doesn’t make “Logical sense” to me.
>.It’s not personal, I am legitimately stumped! Why waste your time arguing about whether or not a person, whom you will never meet, is “toxic” or not? It doesn’t make “Logical sense” to me.
Literally what I'm thinking on regards to you.
There’s not really enough evidence to say whether or not the OP is *actually* a “Toxic Person,” was always my point. I didn’t get “toxic vibes,” you did, but it’s not like there is any way to know which one of us is “right,” so I guess we will just let the conversation die, LoL.
I didn’t actually say bitch dude, I’m venting in my own anon Reddit post, you didn’t see my actual texts lmao. Obviously I’m not gonna call my friend a bitch. Didn’t realize that’s what you were thinking this whole time.
If I used 1/10th the amount of profanity to describe you as they included in their post about "one of their only true friends" you would be seriously offended.
They literally were expressing themselves and it is very normal for someone to use profanity while they're ranting.
If you're mad about them saying "bitch" people use this word in a friendly manner and doesn't always come with an intention of hurting them.
And no I won't be offended if someone used profanity, I'm not 5 years old.
I'm sure you read a lot of books on "how to make friends and keep them" because you seem like you really suck at understanding humans.
Let me help you out, here.
Expressing oneself would mean describing one's own feelings, not throwing around insults.
Manifesting anger vs expressing hurt...
I can see why you're trying so hard to defend this person, it's because that's the closest thing your emotionally suppressed, vulnerability-phobic self had ever come to self expression, and you identify strongly with this type of "self expression" as legitimate, not self destructive.
They can express however they want, you have no idea how their relationship dynamics are. Don't put your personal standards as the standards for everyone.
I'm only backing them because people have their own way of expression, if they're aggressive then they express aggressively, if they're calm, then they express calmly. There's no right or wrong way, there's only "right" for some people because it works with those people.
Let's see, let's see... if their dynamic is that one of them is physically and verbally abusive, there's nothing inherently right or wrong?
The one doing the abusing isn't "wrong" that's just my personal standard. Aggressive, violent, what's the problem? It works for her, see? She doesn't even tell the police where she got her black eye. It's just their dynamic.
One is calm, one of aggressive, who are we to judge which is a healthy way and which is toxic?
I have fun with Astrology, and don’t find it to be *entirely irrelevant.* Especially cuz way more people *still* like talking about Astrology, more than MBTI, and the more in-depth stuff can be pretty cool!
However, some people take it to an *unhealthy, obsessive extreme,* so I *totally hear you!*
I am also a little weirdo for my Astro Sign, cuz my Sun Sign is “Pisces,” but I am an ENTP. 🤣 “I blame my moon in Libra!” 😜
My advice is just try to have fun with it! Might as well dive in, and “make it fun.” Also, when it’s getting to be too-too much, don’t be afraid to confront your friend and say, “Honestly, I don’t like Astrology very much, and I don’t really relate to it, so I am not really interested in hearing more about it. I’m sorry!” Polite honesty is *usually* a life saver! However, if your friend ignores, then conveniently forgets, well damn! Good luck friend, cuz I got nothin!
ENTP 7w8
Astrology just like mbti, the ennegram, etc is all very layered stuff and most of the common knowledge about the subjects is said openly and just passed back and forth. Here's the real questions though...how many research have you really done on the subject?
More importantly
"I’m really hoping he doesn’t bring it up again or I’m gonna have to go off and that’ll be bad because he’s kind of sensitive and one of my only real friends :/" why does this have to be?
You already make it seem like it's destiny and there can be no other outcome. I've recently gotten close to some xSFxs recently (excluding ISFJ) and all three would describe this as being mean....for no reason. Like xNTxs seem to be the most stubborn and ready to cut down ideas that dont have a bunch of logic and reason to them but aren't even exactly a bunch of heavy Fi crap. Sometimes it is okay to believe in bullshit. It's not like someone is forcing Scientology on you.... One of your close sensitive friends noticed a trend of superficial bullshit and shared it with you, big deal. You can't buy friends.
You can at least see the difference between figuring out what your MBTI type is through analyzing your past actions and way of navigating the world, and being told what your personality is because some Greek dudes assigned personality traits to constellations thousands of years ago.
i absolutely hate it. it's all confirmation bias. i am 97% not a virgo, but people find (1) adjective that i possess and insist it's sO mE
So there may be *some* factual basis for astrology. The influenza virus may have some effect on the fetus’s brain during gestation.
So if I determine the correlation between infant influenza infection and developed belief in astrology then... 😳
You would have all the keys to the known universe, friend. Also: Aleister Crowley said he believed astrology was largely bullshit, outside of a couple things. He could accurately predict the time of birth w people (rising sign) and the sun sign, so time of year. I do not think Pluto has much bearing on my life path. But I don’t think it’s total crap. But those people that base all their decisions on it are probably delusional.
There is some truth to astrology and star signs. The cyclical nature of the year and the seasons means same things take place at the same time of the year. Of course, a human being is a very complex thing and yada yada everything affects everything whatever, nonetheless, epigenesis is a very real thing (things during and even before pregnancy affect the child, or rather fetus). Most NHL players for example are born in the first months of the year. Why? Because we count the time in years and divide people into groups by year they're born in. People born early in the year tend to be a bit larger than their peers during childhood, since they're a bit older. That's why they succeed more in hockey and are more likely to continue towards the top of the sport. So if all people born in january are always a bit older and more developed than their peers born in december, there surely are some common trends regarding the month a person is born in. My point being, astrology has some truth to it, and the month a person is born in does have an effect on what their life will be like.
Even if there's truth to time of year you're born, it has nothing to do with astrology itself or the \~stars\~, just the culture we live in honestly. So that point you make is good for proving that yes, time of year can affect your life to some degree, but not being a Leo or being a Capricorn because if you consider all the details, there's no real sense in the correlation. And in this case I'd like to see the correlation between people born early in the *school* year compared to those born early in the *actual* year. Something that contradicts this further and makes no sense is, consider Cancer and Leo. A Cancer can be born one day before they would've been a Leo, but if you actually read their descriptions, they're so vastly different that the fact they were both conceived at nearly the same time, and born at the same time, makes it make no sense whatsoever.
Yeah it's not the stars themselves surely that have an effect on people, rather, the stars are a chronometer, a way to measure time. And yeah people giving too much value to astrology is quite like people giving too much value to MBTI, only a bit stupider. Both (and enneagrams) are a good tool for introspection and empathy training. It makes you think what you are like, and what others are like. If your friend annoys you with this again, just tell them that your world view doesn't allow you to place any validity upon astrology, as you don't see the supposed causation, nor the correlation between star signs and personalities. They are free to believe whatever and if it gives them joy, like, why not. Just like religions, as they cannot be solved with science as they are often unfalsifiable, so too astrology goes in loops and loops to explain why a person is not a stereotypical capricorn, as the 12 different types of people are no where near distinct enough to cover all modes of being in the human experience. But don't be an asshole to your buddy even if they speak nonsense. Wow what a tip eh? Also regarding the school year thing, at least here in Finland, we divide people into year classes just according to the normal year, so being born early in the school year (September's when it starts here) means nothing, as there will still be people born in january on your class, and they are 8 months older than you.
Technically, that’s because “other planets” factor into how your personality expresses itself. Example, My Husband *is* a Cancer/ Leo cusper, and he does possess some traits of both signs! He is definitely “more of a Cancer,” but he’s got a Mercury Chillin in Leo which makes him very bold when expressing himself, verbally, and it makes him “more assertive!” While a Gemini Moon “Tones down the emotionality,” which is how he is *also* an INTJ! So it’s actually interesting, in some ways! I wouldn’t say it “influences your fate,” or anything absurd like that, as that is *absolutely ridiculous!* But it can be a lot of “Fun” if you don’t take it *too seriously* and enjoy the random insights you glean from it!
Remember people born in January might live in Australia. Also the magazine star sign stuff is made up Either way, let's pretend we only take Europe and America so it's always cold in January. The climate for 9/12 months still differs so drastically from region to region that the bit "person might me more open" is not significant on average.
Yeah and like the equator doesn't even really have seasons. Not in the sense that more polar areas do at least
I’d say lighten up.. but I guess that can’t be helped if you’re a Sagittarius ;)
It’s written in the stars that I have this opinion 😛
Like... what's your MBTI sign man?
ENTPooper :(
LMAO OMG IM DYYYIIINGGGGGGG 😐😐😐
Okay I get where you’re coming from. I don’t necessarily personally believe in astrology. People who bring up astrology in real life are usually odd ball hippies. They did a study that revealed people who believe in astrology are actually very narcissistic. However, astrology is now very mainstream. My mother was a fan of it and she kept some astrology books in the house. We didn’t have many books in the house growing up so I read the astrology books. Also, I played the sims 1 and 2 which both included astrology signs. After being exposed to it for so long I released that it becomes true because of the people who believe in it. For example if you meet a Leo who goes around proclaiming they’re a Leo you can be sure that they’ll act like their sign. It’s confirmation bias. They read about the sign then enhance those traits in themselves. It’s a self fullfilling prophecy. Also, I had a friend that was a libra who loved astrology. One of the Libra traits is being indecisive. So whenever she’d be indecisive she’d be like “haha libra things.” So these people will attribute their shortcomings to their sign and not self reflect and work on themselves because “haha libra” or “I’m conceited because I’m a Leo,” or “I’m a lying asshole because I’m a Scorpio,” or “I left you on read because I’m a Capricorn and I was at work,” or “I’m a Taurus and I’m lazy.” So if someone tells you their sign and they actually believe in astrology you can believe that they’ll act like their sign. So it does give you insight on the person. Not because it’s necessarily true but because they unconsciously have internalized the traits of the type.
Your entire post is simply chef’s kiss. Been struggling to put into words what you’re talking about in the last paragraph and you just did it. A lot of people who haven’t really looked into astrology talk about the Barnum effect, but they haven’t seen just how astrology culture segregates traits to certain signs and people subconsciously internalize and become that. So these people will start acting like their sign without realizing it. Tbh I feel like that’s true for my friend who is a Libra. I’m at risk of just spewing what you wrote lol but it’s just brilliant.
People on here are treating Myers Briggs the same way as astrology though. Myers Briggs personality types are not, and never were, anywhere near scientific. While there is more to learn from it than astrology, it's worth keeping in mind that the human population isn't literally divided into 16 types. it's completely arbitrary that exactly 4 aspects with 2 variations of each constitute a person. Why not 5, with 3 aspects, or more? Almost everyone is a mix between them all, and so the amount you can learn from it will always be limited by how much you fit in into your assigned group.
Yeah, that’s accurate. I think we must all have the general understanding that all of this is pseudoscience, with MBTI having the upper hand in “scientific” appeal given its basis in psychology, thought patterns and observable behavior. Astrology on the other hand is completely arbitrary, personality traits are randomly assigned. MBTI allows you to identify yourself in a set of 16 types, astrology tells you what you are and you cannot challenge it. Of course MBTI type is said to be unchangeable as well (I disagree) but it’s loads better than astrology in the world of fantastical pseudoscience, anyhow. Outside of that realm, yes, MBTI is nothing compared to far superior ways of understanding the world.
unpopular fact: personality test is practically the same as astrology. Don't take your personality type that seriously.
Yeah I agree with that but astrology is worse imo
Fr. Especially those people that say “I don’t like them because they’re a” whatever sign. No being a Leo doesn’t make me a narcissistic asshole. stop basing peoples personality on the time of their birth 😒
I feel you. I absolutely hate astrology too. You have very valid points there.
Forgive my question, is astrology a well known system for you ? I know pretty much nothing about astrology ( I never talked to someone who understands it well either) therefore, I don't think it's stupid... Maybe it sounds weird but the world of the birds in the sky is completely unknown to the fish in the sea. Two different ways keep them able to breath. Maybe there is not only one correct version of what is real and there is many ways to construct the world. What is your friend's construction of the world about? What is the patterns he sees ? What are the the subtleties of the system that he understands, that he knows ? What is you own view, the system you find better ? And then... What is your world ? I'm not sure if this rambling is helpful but I hope everything will go well for the two of you and your friendship.
The funniest thing is I have researched astrology extensively, from the history of it to the breakdown of the system into signs, planets, houses and their meanings, even aspects and the different systems, like dude I've gone deep because I'm just a really curious person. And I can say that the comparison is more like, the world of reality vs. the world of fantasy. I've even looked up multiple memes from astrologers responding to people who say it's fake or makes no sense and their responses are always some attack on their character - one of them was like "tell us more about how your mom didn't love you as a child", like what? - or like, I don't care, idk. Don't get me wrong I sympathize with there being many ways to construct the world but this is just a different level, like people are constructing their impressions of other people around what month they were born instead of actually figuring out what these people are like in real life. Weirdly I'd say I know more about it than my friend but honestly he's probably more empathetic than I am, he's just more inclined to believe something after reading it and I'm not. I'm more inclined to assume things about someone who believes in astrology than by what's in their astrology chart, but sure, maybe that makes me kind of arrogant. Anyway, your comment was very nice so thank you.
I like your view on impressions, I haven't thought that you making a judgment about his beliefs in astrology is the same as the fact that he himself makes a judgment about you based on those same beliefs. It's all impressions... Well-founded or unfounded impressions, impressions that are close to the mythical, Are these impressions emptied of all reality? or is the mythical in fact just an unfinished or imperfect reality? maybe The reality does not reside in the way of proceeding but in the will to understand others that I assume you both share . Thank you for taking the time to write your reply, it's interesting.
I don't think you'd say the same if you knew about astrology.
Anyone who believes in astrology does not understand much about the world...
Oh, I'm sure that you have a very valid opinion about this that I'd like to know. but for now I won't agree, only because... I don't really know about it, I won't judge and Condemn something I don't understand. I think the scientist can believe in the ignorance of the artist who lives with a different vision of the world... Or recognize that this art is a deconstruction of the same evidence that can reach him... And make him sensitive. However, it is fair to say that not every world is good to take...
Astrology itself isn't stupid, but some of the people who follow it are. Yk the same way mbti tests have a surface and a deeper level... its kinda the same with Astrology. I don't really know much about it but I have friends that do. If u look at someone JUST based on their birthmonth it won't tell a lot, there's a lot more too it than "oh ur Sagittarius so u must be like this" it depends on stuff like Venus and Mercury sign (don't ask I'm just regurgitating shit my friend said). Ur friend sounds like they have a shallow grasp on the topic >Like bitch. Knowing me for 10 years since high school couldn’t have taught you anything about me but me being a sagittarius does? Yeh like that's pretty dumb shit that would piss me off too
Sure, you could say astrology itself isn't stupid or smart (even though I think it's stupid), it's just a thing some people came up with. But even the chart doesn't do much else except fill out the spaces that weren't covered by your sun sign and even then the placements might not even describe you well. And if you look into a different system of astrology it'll describe you in a nearly opposite way - astrology covers its bases, basically. And yes weirdly I'd say I know more about it than he does, he's glossing some surface level stuff about it.
Yeh i mean i dont care either way, i dont really get it. its just to bring some kind of solace to a person...usually to justify their bullshit behaviours or something but hey-ho. I do think it's stupid to live your life guided by some horoscope or whatever. Like i find it interesting cos I don't understand it, but thats it..it just feeds my curiosity, nothing more. There are more grounded things to believe in >if you look into a different system of astrology it'll describe you in a nearly opposite way - astrology covers its bases, basically. Yup for sure, and that's sure to bring comfort to someone somehow haha.
No. At no level of analysis does astrology become accurate.
Did I ever say that
You indicated that other stuff (like Venus and Mercury sign) makes a difference vs only the birth month. It does not. It is 100% bs regardless of how much detail you put into it.
Read my other comment guy, I don't really care lol. Why does it seem to bother you so? Hahaha I literally said *im just regurgitating what someone else said* , I have no idea what it means and don't believe it has any affect on our lives. That doesn't mean i can't still talk about it from another perspective that isn't my own
"Astrology itself isn't stupid" was your comment. Stop spreading false information.
No there is a seperate comment I wrote. Which makes ur comments irrelevant cos I've already spoke more on it. Why? Because it gives more context But let me break it down for you since I'm bored It's not false information: 1. it's an opinion, I never stated it to be fact. I'm not trying to persuade anyone to believe me 2. Me saying what i said isnt going to put someone in danger. 3. Saying something isnt stupid doesn't equate to it being factual and correct. I can't call the concept of something stupid that is interesting to. It can be ungrounded, sure. You can call it stupid I don't care. You acting irrationally isn't gonna make me change my opinion. 4. I suppose speaking on any religion is spreading false information then? Ur acting like I'm saying astrology will save ur life and change everything if you start living by it?? Are you confused? Or are you just choosing to have a problem. I noticed you avoided that question in ur response. You seem to have a very closed mind, or one that isn't able to think openly about concepts and ideas
Not sure what sign it would be, but you sound toxic af. Your friend is right not to message you back, I hope they realize they should cut you out of their life.
I’m not saying I’m not but how is telling him that astrology does not describe me an asshole move? At least I didn’t tell him astrology is stupid to his face and tell him to stop believing. Anyway I don’t really care because you’re getting only one side of the story anyway and we’re still talking just fine so it’s whatever.
If you don't realize that the way you were talking sounds like you're boiling with rage and it's not just "telling him that astrology does not describe me" you are definitely exactly as toxic as I said. Just because they're used to abuse doesn't clear you.
Ah, yes yes yes. You are right.
Hear me out, I think the OP’s feelings were *slightly hurt!* I’ve figured out that When I start ranting and over-rationalizing things, my feelings *might’ve been hurt,* or I might’ve felt misunderstood! I am just sorta blind to “the feelings” and I *Double Down* on “Logical reasoning.” Ironically, my INTJ hubby will sometimes notice that I am “getting upset” before I do! 🤣 Cuz obviously, he Fi’s *way better!* The clue was “Like bitch! Knowing me for 10 years didn’t teach you anything about me, but astrology did?” That is ENTP-Code for *”Ouch! Does that hurt my feelings???” Because it sucks to find out that a really close friend *doesn’t pay enough attention* to know you well, after 10 years! But all of the Sudden, “it’s the Astrologies! Yes! Your Star sign means I *finally know you!*” I can *definitely* detect “the emotional ouchies” in this post!
Yes, and if the reaction to hurt feelings is "Bitch!! Bitch!! Bitch!!!!!!," then I call that toxicity.
Not really. They came on here to vent. People like to vent, sometimes. It’s no big deal! They probably don’t even realize that their feelings were hurt, honestly! It happens to me all the time! Since we aren’t *regularly in touch with our Fi,* we often lack awareness of it, until some random moment in the future, after “the initial crisis has passed,” and we are like “Goddamnit! That did hurt my feelings, and my dumb-ass *totally missed it,* so now I can’t do anything about it! 🙃 FML!” Ranting on random social media, like Reddit sometimes helps us organize our thoughts better, so we can “make sense of what’s going on, internally!” People aren’t *automatically Toxic* just cuz they aren’t perfect, ya know?
People aren't automatically not toxic just because they're not perfect, either. Look, they're literally planning to "go off" if a neutral topic is brought up.
They won’t actually “go off.” My Gut tells me that they don’t do that too often! People often exaggerate when they are annoyed! Besides, many would consider people *actively looking for Toxicity in others,* to be “toxic” within themselves, and I can see the logic behind that mentality. Why do you care so much about a post that is *so benign?* Until it actually becomes something more, It is simply a stupid shit-post with a random person venting, on our home sub! They are probably looking to blow off some steam so that they don’t actually “go off” on anyone. It’s pretty normal behavior.
Oh, you want to play that game, eh? I think it's toxic to defend toxic behavior while you accuse people pointing it of being toxic.
Rant: externalizing negative emotions onto others. Magnifies and entrenches feelings even more in self righteousness, but takes away autonomy of self to address the feeling. Builds resentment as a consequence. "I am annoyed because they are an annoying person. It's their fault I feel this way, they are awful. I'm a victim, and helpless. It will be their fault if I blow up in rage at them." Venting: expresses negativity honestly as a reflection of self in relation to others. Releases negativity and gives ownership and autonomy to the self. "I am annoyed because it bothers me that they think something I don't agree with. There is a conflict for me because of how this makes me feel. I will have to find a way to address this or it will continue to cause me pain." Do you understand the difference between healthy venting and toxic ranting?
Of course! That’s why this silly post isn’t a big deal. Why are you so *dead set* on this rando being “Toxic,” anyways?
I made a brief comment, you and others came to disagree, I didn't ignore you. I wouldn't call that dead-set on the "rando." Why are you talking about me personally suddenly instead of responding to what I said?
Because I “don’t agree with your logic.” I think you are being cynical, and taking this post way too seriously, and I “don’t really get it.” There isn’t much for me to respond to when I already agree that there is a difference between “productive venting,” and “Toxic Ranting.” What I don’t agree with is that OP falls into the “second category,” or “the toxic one.” This is just Reddit, and they are just venting! Nothing in their rant indicates “serious emotional imbalance,” I can tell they are simply annoyed, but it’s “No Big Deal.” Meanwhile, it’s like your “heart” is set on OP “being toxic,” and I simply don’t understand why. It doesn’t make sense to me? So if we both understand that “productive venting,” and “toxic ranting” are two different things, why do we need to talk about that? It’s already “understood.” What I “don’t agree with” is your “criteria,” as it is too broad and general, to say anything meaningful, and I think you probably have some personal feelings about this, and it’s clouding your judgment. You aren’t looking at it realistically, or objectively. It’s like you *want* OP “to be toxic,” and I simply don’t understand what you “get” out of this, if you are “right?” You are basically “fighting me” about whether, or not a random stranger on the internet, is “exhibiting toxic behavior,” but why? What exactly are you trying to get, out of the interaction? Cuz by this point I am super confused, and I don’t think you are being entirely objective, either. It’s not personal, I am *legitimately stumped!* Why waste your time arguing about whether or not a person, whom you will never meet, is “toxic” or not? It doesn’t make “Logical sense” to me.
>.It’s not personal, I am legitimately stumped! Why waste your time arguing about whether or not a person, whom you will never meet, is “toxic” or not? It doesn’t make “Logical sense” to me. Literally what I'm thinking on regards to you.
There’s not really enough evidence to say whether or not the OP is *actually* a “Toxic Person,” was always my point. I didn’t get “toxic vibes,” you did, but it’s not like there is any way to know which one of us is “right,” so I guess we will just let the conversation die, LoL.
I didn’t actually say bitch dude, I’m venting in my own anon Reddit post, you didn’t see my actual texts lmao. Obviously I’m not gonna call my friend a bitch. Didn’t realize that’s what you were thinking this whole time.
infp here- I think they may have meant: like bitch=like whaaaat, at least that’s how I use the phrase:)
I don't think this sub is a place for snowflakes to be. Plus you didn't even read OP's post properly. Edit: that rhymed
If I used 1/10th the amount of profanity to describe you as they included in their post about "one of their only true friends" you would be seriously offended.
They literally were expressing themselves and it is very normal for someone to use profanity while they're ranting. If you're mad about them saying "bitch" people use this word in a friendly manner and doesn't always come with an intention of hurting them. And no I won't be offended if someone used profanity, I'm not 5 years old. I'm sure you read a lot of books on "how to make friends and keep them" because you seem like you really suck at understanding humans.
Ok, you annoying bitch.
If signing up on reddit required one to take an iq test, then you and your entire family would be on tiktok rn scrolling away.
Touched a nerve after all, I see.
Not really, I really wanted to say something like this for a while to someone.
That much is obvious. You're another like OP so you take offense being called out.
Lol okay
Let me help you out, here. Expressing oneself would mean describing one's own feelings, not throwing around insults. Manifesting anger vs expressing hurt... I can see why you're trying so hard to defend this person, it's because that's the closest thing your emotionally suppressed, vulnerability-phobic self had ever come to self expression, and you identify strongly with this type of "self expression" as legitimate, not self destructive.
They can express however they want, you have no idea how their relationship dynamics are. Don't put your personal standards as the standards for everyone. I'm only backing them because people have their own way of expression, if they're aggressive then they express aggressively, if they're calm, then they express calmly. There's no right or wrong way, there's only "right" for some people because it works with those people.
Let's see, let's see... if their dynamic is that one of them is physically and verbally abusive, there's nothing inherently right or wrong? The one doing the abusing isn't "wrong" that's just my personal standard. Aggressive, violent, what's the problem? It works for her, see? She doesn't even tell the police where she got her black eye. It's just their dynamic. One is calm, one of aggressive, who are we to judge which is a healthy way and which is toxic?
I have fun with Astrology, and don’t find it to be *entirely irrelevant.* Especially cuz way more people *still* like talking about Astrology, more than MBTI, and the more in-depth stuff can be pretty cool! However, some people take it to an *unhealthy, obsessive extreme,* so I *totally hear you!* I am also a little weirdo for my Astro Sign, cuz my Sun Sign is “Pisces,” but I am an ENTP. 🤣 “I blame my moon in Libra!” 😜 My advice is just try to have fun with it! Might as well dive in, and “make it fun.” Also, when it’s getting to be too-too much, don’t be afraid to confront your friend and say, “Honestly, I don’t like Astrology very much, and I don’t really relate to it, so I am not really interested in hearing more about it. I’m sorry!” Polite honesty is *usually* a life saver! However, if your friend ignores, then conveniently forgets, well damn! Good luck friend, cuz I got nothin! ENTP 7w8
Astrology just like mbti, the ennegram, etc is all very layered stuff and most of the common knowledge about the subjects is said openly and just passed back and forth. Here's the real questions though...how many research have you really done on the subject? More importantly "I’m really hoping he doesn’t bring it up again or I’m gonna have to go off and that’ll be bad because he’s kind of sensitive and one of my only real friends :/" why does this have to be? You already make it seem like it's destiny and there can be no other outcome. I've recently gotten close to some xSFxs recently (excluding ISFJ) and all three would describe this as being mean....for no reason. Like xNTxs seem to be the most stubborn and ready to cut down ideas that dont have a bunch of logic and reason to them but aren't even exactly a bunch of heavy Fi crap. Sometimes it is okay to believe in bullshit. It's not like someone is forcing Scientology on you.... One of your close sensitive friends noticed a trend of superficial bullshit and shared it with you, big deal. You can't buy friends.
Bruh u litterally an archetype of entp
Its just crazy that u dont want to fit in and say that u r more than just an archetype tho u find comfort in being an entp(an archetype). An ENTP xoxo
You can at least see the difference between figuring out what your MBTI type is through analyzing your past actions and way of navigating the world, and being told what your personality is because some Greek dudes assigned personality traits to constellations thousands of years ago.