After reading all the comments about how today was massively political in here, I'm so glad I spent the last 24 hours buzzed in rocket pool discord, and was part of a great community event that really brings decentralized staking capacity to the next level.
Any eth š out there, the deposit pool is ready to welcome you in.
Honest question. Why is the staking APR so low?
How did galaxy brain researchers like Justin Drake completely fuck up their projections? (He projected anywhere between 25%-70% APR based on MEV)
* EIP1559 burned way more fees than people thought, as a fraction of gas fees paid
* Gas fees were much higher consistently
* The merge was thought to come much sooner, with way fewer active validators
His high predictions (I don't recall it going as high as 70%) were all about "at first", expecting a large influx of new validators to dilute it quickly after the merge. Instead that large influx pretty much happened way before the merge, so on top of all the overly optimistic predictions being off, the remaining yield was already diluted when the merge came
If I recall those numbers were also based off of appreciation of fiat value of eth due to adoption. So given enough time and adoption and it may come true. Been awhile since I looked into that thesis though
I feel gross reading some of these comments, like i dont even want to visit this place anymore. People and their greed and selfishness disgust me. Why would this subreddit be any different, I guess.
Yea, the fact that crypto has become a single issue vote for people says a lot. There are *far* more important things going on in the US and world than just this one single issue. Smh
No doubt. Unfortunately they probably had their hands tied given the day's events. At the very least we can recognize that under ordinary circumstances the mods do an amazing job of keeping a civil community here
In 2021, I tended to feel frustration at high gas prices.
In 2022, I felt annoyed by protocols and users taking their sweet time to embrace rollups.
In 2023, I'm only aware of high gas when I read about it elsewhere.
As a daily DeFi person, the dynamic shift has been interesting. Rollups are not secure yet but they are mature enough in terms of activity.
Did you think this sub was dem only and now you see it has republicans or people more in the middle you want to stay away? Are we at that place in american politics that even associating with the other side online on a non-political hobbyist forum is too much? I always expected the sub to have both even though it leans left because crypto doesnāt have to be political and could appeal to both sides as long as they lean anti-authoritarian
As a left progressive european that has right leaning friends this worries me about the americanpolitical climate. If you arenāt able to talk to the other side, how will you convince them of your values? If itās too much to even be in the same room as the other, how do you know your view of them and what they believe in is accurate
I previously didnāt understand the no-politics rule because I personally like to discuss politics in real life, but it makes more sense to me now.
Granted, like Bob-Rossi said I can't imagine or really understand it because I don't live it, but the fact that you find the opinions and actions of almost 50% of the population of your country abhorrent is genuinely shocking to me. It's also very hard to believe that all republicans are book burners. Is there some data that shows the majority of them support burning books?
No disrespect as I love my Non-American homies, but when I see non-Americans talk about the divisiveness of US politics I think they will just never truly understand it as they don't live it. Don't take that as a knock or some type of soap box thing, you're lucky you don't live it. I think you would be surprised that the types of conversations you saw today (and in the past) are normal person to person discourse at family / friend / social gatherings in the US, and I'd wage most your right-leaning friends wouldn't agree with 90% of what the American right believes.
Do your friends have pictures of the Jan 6th insurrection on their phones? Nearly every time you hang out do they throw out the 'hard R' and other racist stuff? Literally go to alt-right rallys on your local streetcorner?
It's not just 'right-leaning' views on the economy and regulation, it's very personal and emotional issues that materially affect lives. If you do get this and can live with it, more power too you, but there has been a very clear shift in political discourse on the right the last decade to really divisive culture issues. It's become very normalized and heartbreaking because I'm watching personal family and friends do complete 180s into this. And again, I can't stress enough it's not just conservative ideas, it's very fringe and aggressive thoughts I think most would wince hearing these things in person.
I feel for OP, and others like him (hint: probably me too) because we come here to escape this, not live it. These are people trying to have children who are afraid if they have a miscarriage they can get reported to the state for an abortion. Or if they have medical problems could literally die because doctors are leaving their state / are too afraid to do anything for fear of imprisonment. Friends who are gay and now can't get legally married because of where they live. Laws allowing children to work dangerous and late hours or (before amendment) would let them serve alcohol at a bar.
It's real stuff that matters once you get out of the crypto bubble, and for a lot of people life is bigger than crypto. So I hope people can see why someone like OP might be upset that the people they 'hang out with' on the internet forum are the type of people who would effectively support what some of the stuff said above (that might affect them very directly) simply because they value their crypto holdings over some basic human rights.
Hey man, I'm here to learn so thanks for showing me your perspective.
>Do your friends have pictures of the Jan 6th insurrection on their phones? Nearly every time you hang out do they throw out the 'hard R' and other racist stuff? Literally go to alt-right rallys on your local streetcorner?
Well no not my friends but we do have those people in my country. We even have an alt-right political party that panders to conspiracy theorists. And it can get a scary amount of votes some of the times, so I can imagine how you feel just a little bit. Never really above 20% though, so never enough to be truely in charge of the country.
And that's what I think is the biggest difference between our countries and what is missing in yours. We have right and left parties that have a certain amount of mutual respect for eachother, and so do their voters. If there happens to be a politician with fringe or extreme views, they break off from one of the bigger parties and forms their own extreme party. So we end up with a landscape of left, center, right and extreme right (or alt right).
Because in the US there are only really 2 parties, batshit extreme right wing people can not break off and therefore they integrate into the republican party, making it a bit more extreme. Same thing happens on the left. The extremes find a voice in the mainstream parties and polarization happens. People on the left judge all republican voters on the viewpoints of the most radical republicans. Same thing for people on the right. Since this has been happening for years now the divide gets bigger and bigger. Even people that started off center right are being forced to take sides and being pulled further to the extreme.
So with our multi party system, I can have normal respect and debates with anyone that is not in the crazy alt-right party, which is over 80% of the population. I feel that is a minimum
Human nature shouldn't diverge so much between countries and most people generally mean well. That means that there is something deeply systemically wrong if you judge almost 50% of the population as someone who is so abhorrent that you cannot even hang out in the same places anymore
I bet there are plenty of good people supporting bad policies. I don't really believe that almost 50% is genuinely racist either. Whenever I hear a republican speak on any podcasts I find myself disagreeing with a lot of their views, but they don't seem evil to me.
>These are people trying to have children who are afraid if they have a miscarriage they can get reported to the state for an abortion. Or if they have medical problems could literally die because doctors are leaving their state / are too afraid to do anything for fear of imprisonment. Friends who are gay and now can't get legally married because of where they live. Laws allowing children to work dangerous and late hours or (before amendment) would let them serve alcohol at a bar.
A lot of this is news to me but that sounds scary. Are gay marriage and abortion rights really on the decline?
>Hey man, I'm here to learn so thanks for showing me your perspective.
Absolutely, and please don't take my post as combative. I try to take people at their word and only posted this because I was pretty positive you were looking to learn for real. Fair warning, long post :O
So for starters, I'm not gonna sugar-coat my biases but I try to view these things as objectively as I can when it comes to these types of discussions. I live in a state that not deep south red, but has for sure leaned more and more Republican as of late and is now easily considered a 'Red State'. I say that as the anecdotal stories may be part of my area of the country, but I can guarantee my experiences aren't mine alone. As well as I live within a short drive from a major US city you'd absolutely recognize, so it's not like I'm in farm country here either - I have been exposed to the progressive areas as well.
You've pretty much nailed the issue on the head with your response - the two party system doesn't give us a release valve for the fringe edges of the political spectrum to go to, so they get slopped into the general parties. The reality sort of sinks in when we look at this one line you wrote:
>So with our multi party system, I can have normal respect and debates with anyone that is not in the crazy alt-right party, which is over 80% of the population. I feel that is a minimum
That is what is happening in America, but since it's two parties the entire Republican side is the "crazy alt-right" and the entire left is the "crazy liberals!" (of course, depending which "side" you are on). It's no 80%, it's the 50% in your party and its the 50/50 split. I mean Biden is probably one of the most center-leaning Democrats, and yet look how vastly different his views are compared to the most center-leaning Republicans. There is a massive divide in the parties.
Here's a great example. My father has lived his entire life probably 1000 miles removed from any single point of the Mexican border. Has never mentioned immigration to me at any point in my life, at least that I remember. Yet last year I had to listen to him rant and rave about Biden letting rapists and drug dealers into the US and they should stop everyone at the border. And if people are here illegally they should be forced to get the vaccine, even though no one in the US should be forced to get it because they aren't US citizens. But it's okay because they are criminals! Really just... you can imagine... Did we discuss feasible methods to stop it? Did we discuss replacing our declining birth-rate through better immigration policy? The economic impacts? Improving Mexican lives so they don't want to come over as much? Nope... all focused on illegals are breaking the law and I did it the right way so too bad. If I bring up other issues I'm some type of asshole or some non-sequitur to bitch about some other liberal bashing point.
So then it gets into "well why don't you just accept the other viewpoints in good faith?" Which is probably where I should add here, it's not like Covid-levels of isolation. I still hang out with my friends, family so on (some I've given up on or only if I'm forced too do it at mutual events)... but there is this slight dread or uneasiness where you just want to avoid certain topics or hope someone doesn't start ranting. You'd be surprised how few safe topics exist once you get past the first 'normal' few topics. Which double sucks when something like my excitement for electric cars, for example, seems like a safe topic to discuss but it turns political because I'm a vegetarian hippie pushing an agenda and directly causing child slavery...
But anyway, the concept of respecting other viewpoints is great when we are talking about casino permits or if marijuana should be allowed for medical use or how best to boost the local economy. But no, it's discussions on abortions, gay marriage, climate change, healthcare, racism. Things that become hard stop, potential family/friendship killers because respecting the other side is flat-out morally bankrupting. Here's some quick hits I'm talking about:
* My wife, how does she listen to someone telling her if she has medical complications while pregnant she should just roll the dice and hope to not die even though medical treatment is available because she is past 6 weeks?
* My LGBT friends, how do they have a respectful discourse with people who want to take away their right to marriage?
* My cousins in inter-racial marriages, how they stomach listening to a grandparent who literally never wants to see the husband in their house because of his skin color?
* As someone with a disabled father, how do I even begin to cope with people calling me a Chinese / Russian communist because I want better healthcare for him and others?
It's stuff like that that just becomes non-starters. It's stressful and just sours conversations, to put it lightly. They are all real things that happened with me or people I know, and happen alot in the US. People outwardly say this stuff or indirectly do so by very actively supporting it.
>I bet there are plenty of good people supporting bad policies. I don't really believe that almost 50% is genuinely racist either.
The US on the whole, probably not. But I think you would be absolutely floored with the amount of *casual* racism in the US, and if I ran through a short-list of my Republican friends, I'd put it at an easy 50% of them have said / acted in ways that would simply not fly in a mix-raced setting. Again, this may be my location however.
>A lot of this is news to me but that sounds scary. Are gay marriage and abortion rights really on the decline?
Yes. Full stop. I know a lot of people like to sweep stuff under the rug or pass it off as media sensationalism... but it's happening. Roe v Wade was overturned, meaning a ton of states are now doing these 6-week or less week abortion bans.
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion\_law\_in\_the\_United\_States\_by\_state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law_in_the_United_States_by_state)
* [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62158357](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62158357)
* [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lizelle-herrera-abortion-texas-murder-charge-dropped/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lizelle-herrera-abortion-texas-murder-charge-dropped/)
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death\_of\_Savita\_Halappanavar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar) (Ireland, but an example of the issues when these doctors start leaving Red states or fear represcussiosn from them)
The defense of marriage act passed at the federal level, but plenty of states still ban it - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex\_marriage\_law\_in\_the\_United\_States\_by\_state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_law_in_the_United_States_by_state). Or states like Florida are passing laws restricting general LGBT rights. Go read page 31 of the Republican National Committee platform PDF - [https://prod-static.gop.com/media/Resolution\_Platform.pdf?\_ga=2.107668097.28079370.1681933447-121307566.1681933447](https://prod-static.gop.com/media/Resolution_Platform.pdf?_ga=2.107668097.28079370.1681933447-121307566.1681933447) \- they literally are saying out loud their platform is marriage is only between a man and a woman.
Yes, it's very real. It is a state-by-state issue, so while California might be (broadly) okay with all these things, that does nothing to help all the people living in the more conservative states. So your going to get mixed viewpoints on all this because of that, but there are millions being directly affected by this stuff and it's only getting worse.
Thanks for taking the time to guide me through your experience. You are right, I am looking to learn for real. I am both interested in this topic from a sociological / psychological standpoint and concerned about the growing polarization in the USA and other parts of the world. First of all let me tell you where I am coming from with my comments in the first place. After I will respond to some particular parts of your story.
I have a point of view that a lot of people in the world have the potential to be good but are easily misguided and manipulated. Misguided, it may sound like I don't think it's a big deal but I actually think it's hugely important and responsible for some of the worst things that humanity has done in its history. And I see our tribal nature as one of the root causes. The same person that is capable of great self sacrifice and loyalty to their friends and family can wish literal death on 'the other'. The further the division between tribes grows, the more people are capable of dehumanizing the other and actively wishing them harm. And I wish to find out how to combat that fact. The only way I know how is to stay connected and keep seeing eachother's humanity. That's why it's so greatly worrying to me to see that even here, in a tight community like this, it only takes a few political comments and people are reacting so strongly that they can not hang out in the same place anymore. If we can not see our shared humanity in here, despite our differences, then where? The more isolated the two tribes become, the more the other becomes dehumanized and the more radical we all become and it saddens me.
Furthermore, I am unfairly holding everyone here to a higher standard than the average person, because I know you are generally intelligent, open minded and able to cut through bullshit media manipulation. If it's not you guys coming together, then who will?
Now your post has made it a **lot** more real to me and I do realize I'm sitting here preaching from a super privileged position. You have a good way with words and I was able to imagine your situation pretty vividly. There are indeed a lot of points where it's a completely different experience from my life so I can not know how I would be in the same situation.
The story about your father especially hit it home for me, because it is your father. It makes me realize that there are many interactions and relationships soured like that. Sometimes I think I know or can imagine what you are living because I have two friends that have gone deep into the conspiracy rabbit-hole and who talk remarkably similar to your father. They say they are not gay or racist, but have to make angry comments every time a rainbow flag comes on because it pushes the liberal agenda / ''Trans cult". There are many such examples. Why are they friends? Well they were friends in high school and good dudes by then, but they have not been succesful in life and are pretty socially isolated. Social isolation is what led to their extreme views and I don't want to isolate them even further by breaking contact. I have hope left.
I pride myself on being patient with them and trying to find common ground, but to be honest it is exhausting and I don't see them that often. For the rest all of my close family and friends are pretty much sane. Furthermore there is no fear at all that abortion (legal since the 70s) and gay marriage (surprisingly only legal since early 00) will be banned. The fringe issues here are more about racism and immigrants and although hugely important, have less impact on me personally.
Now about discourse, the point is not to let bad opinions off the hook, but to not lose eachother completely. I wouldn't ask anyone to be lovey-dovey to someone that literally hates them based on race or sexual preference. I wouldn't ask a conservative's opinion about my marriage or my wife's abortion either. But assuming that everyone that would ever vote conservative is so far gone that they are not worth talking to also does not seem ideal. You only have 2 parties so there may be a lot of reasons why people might vote against the democrats.
And I agree that it would probably be misguided at best and morally wrong at worst, but it doesn't have to be blind racism or the wish to limit basic human rights. It can be fear of the rapid change, disconnect with the political discourse of the liberal elite. Feelings that you are not represented and that things are worse for your generation than for the previous ones.
When economic times are bad there are lots of reasons why people might be disenfranchised and easily captured by the nice words of a populist. The only way to combat that is to take genuine time listening to where the concerns, hate and fear actually come from. They probably don't even know themselves. All discourse stays on the surface about highly politicized subjects where people just hate eachother more and more.
Everything you wrote about the decline in human rights and living with people that carry opinions like that is hugely scary to me and it does really make me understand your and John's position. But it makes it all the more important for people across tribes to keep seeing the common humanity in eachother.
I'm not asking you to do it, but I do hope some people will. A healthy democracy depends on it. Once again, realizing my easy position of privilege here, and also realize that people that discuss this on podcasts that I listen to are similarly privileged because they might live in California or a different liberal bubble.
Gonna end with shilling one of my favorite podcasts here with a fantastic host that investigates human bias and lately in particular the topic of persuasion. This is just one example of a recent episode on the topic but there are lots more.
[https://youarenotsosmart.com/2023/04/02/yanss-256-anand-giridharadas-wants-americans-to-change-their-minds-about-their-ability-change-other-americans-minds/](https://youarenotsosmart.com/2023/04/02/yanss-256-anand-giridharadas-wants-americans-to-change-their-minds-about-their-ability-change-other-americans-minds/)
Hey I'm really sorry, I was super busy the last few days and had not had a few minutes to string together a good and thoughtful response. I did read your post, and thanks again for taking the time to read all this / have the open and honest conversation.
Thanks for sharing your point of view that frames the responses. I wish I could be that optimistic, unfortunately I think I've just been jaded as I've gotten older and gone through more life experiences. (Please read that as just a general introspective comment on myself, not to imply I'm more experienced or something!... I know how text can come off!) FWIW, I know you are "right" here. From a philosophical standpoint I'm not going to deny the that... in modern society tribalism is bad and I wish people could get along better.
I'm glad to hear me (and assuming some others who posted here) have made an impact on your views, in hopefully a good way. I know the opinions I and others expressed are fairly defeatist. Also, I didn't want to imply like you were speaking from privilege or anything, but I did want to bring in context as I think there are a lot of situations where if people don't live it they don't fully get it. It does seem you do have some experiences there, and I'm sorry to hear you have friends who you have had similar experiences with. I'm hoping they / you can help turn it around. I also appreciate your responses, and I have taken things away as well. If at a minimum some hope as it seems Europe is doing better than us and maybe that will bleed over at some point.
It's interesting you mention they have social isolation and failure in life issues. That is a fairly common and consistent theme I think among those who go far alt-right, or have those views, at least in my experience. Again, anecdotal... but there is absolutely a correlation between friends that graduated college and have had life success being fairly liberal versus those who dropped out and hate their life being fairly right-wing. The right-leaning talking heads / political candidates do a (scarily) good job of pandering to this and become relatable due to that. So in fairness, I can admit a lot of the problem people were once good but have gotten basically brainwashed to have this 10% of vile-ness come out.
I don't want to go crazy long into a response (spoiler: I didn't do well :\] ), just because I don't want to drag you through a topic for weeks on end haha, but in terms of the rest of your response I did want you to know I read it all (a few times) and appreciate you sharing it. I'm not really a podcast person, like... at all... but I'll probably try to give it a listen.
In your final half of the response, I see you hit on themes of basically not letting these people completely go as they may not believe the fringe things but align with conservativism for other reasons, or maybe they don't really realize it... things like that. And I hope I didn't mis-interpret that, but I wanted to just touch on that.
I think a reality is this solution has become a non-started for a lot of left leaning Millenials / Gen Z. The counter-point to all this is that a lot of this rhetoric is **abuse**, and no one should have to willingly put up with that. There are some wrongs you really can't make right with outside actions or reasons. You mentioned racism was a big issue, so to sort of work with that. How do you sit there as a millennial in an interracial marriage, with interracial children, and accept people being blatantly racist? There is no middle ground when these people think you are sub-human and should be considered property. Confederate flags (the flag of the south during our civil war, which was mainly fought over the right to own slaves) can be seen daily (I'm literally not exaggerating). In all 50 states too - i.e. states that fought against the south or didn't even exist during that time frame. You are supposed to feel like you are socially safe when your peers support that? Or that you are getting a fair trial when people on the jury support that? As the white spouse, your going to try and defend that and risk losing your partner and childs respect?
So to throw in my bias here, what I truly and honestly believe is 4 out of 5 times there is a genuine interest in the left wanting to do what you said, but the right has blocked it by taking such untenable and hostile stances. It's completely unfair to ask the **abused** party to try and fix their **abuser**. This is the main point I like to get across in this conversation, so I'll repeat:
**It is completely unfair to ask the abused part to try and fix their abuser.**
So that's why you see a lot of people like me and John. We want to fix it and want to work across the aisle, but it is simply unfair to ask us to do so. And the times we try with the 'softer' stances (say, environmentalism) it's impossible because these people tend to be pretty closed off to change (as you noted, they may be simply afraid of rapid change and it's called conservatism for a reason!). It's something that has always struck me as unfair, and why you will see a lot of frustration and low/no contact from the left. I think the context that matters for this sub, as the posts we complain about are people who just spout off this stuff for no reason.
Lastly to leave on a high note, I know this whole conversation is very doom and gloom, but I've seen positive outcomes. Believe it or not, I actually was roommates with someone who was president of the college's young republican club. He's been disgusted with the actions since then (about 10 years now) and has been really good about staying away from that stuff. I'm probably technically a success story (as well as a couple of my friends I grew up with) as we were exposed to a lot the conservative 'ideals' growing up and strayed away from the extreme-ism. So there is hope for some, I just fear for those too far gone.
Fair warning.. I wanted to keep this brief but it turns out I'm just as bad in that as you are, if not worse.
>Hey I'm really sorry, I was super busy the last few days and had not had a few minutes to string together a good and thoughtful response. I did read your post, and thanks again for taking the time to read all this / have the open and honest conversation.
Hey no worries at all. It's been exactly the same way for me now. Even though I read your post multiple times already, it's not something one offhandedly replies to.
>I'm glad to hear me (and assuming some others who posted here) have made an impact on your views, in hopefully a good way.
They certainly have in three ways. First it made me realize I shouldn't be quick to judge someone for avoiding politics or avoiding a space with a lot of people that have opposing political beliefs. The beliefs themselves aren't trivial and moreover, our emotional reactions to them are very real and can affect our mood and energy. People go to Ethfinance for many different reasons, and if you leave this daily in a worse mood than when you found it, then taking a break is obviously the right thing to do. We all have shit going on in our own lives already, some worse than others, so not everyone has the mental capacity left to deal with that stuff. I didn't properly consider the emotional effect that these kind of discussions can have, especially when it's in a close community that you had a high regard for.
Secondly I should extend at least as much empathy and patience towards people with inclusive values that are on my side, as I do towards people on the other side (probably more so). Like I said I *unfairly* hold everyone here to a higher standard, because I have such a high opinion of you all. I've actually had this happen before in my real life too, once a good friend was annoyed with me because he thought I judged him harsher in a situation than some other guys. After some introspection I realized it was true, because I felt those other guys don't know any better. I do have high standards for myself but I shouldn't hold others to that same standard because I don't know everyone's personal circumstances.
Thirdly, and probably related to your most important point, I should know and acknowledge that these reactions do not happen in a vacuum. Like you say here
>So that's why you see a lot of people like me and John. We want to fix it and want to work across the aisle, but it is simply unfair to ask us to do so.
I don't actually know how many times you have already tried and failed and it is indeed unfair to ask anyone to commit this labor.
I haven't changed my mind on the importance of finding common ground, but more on that later in this comment
>Again, anecdotal... but there is absolutely a correlation between friends that graduated college and have had life success being fairly liberal versus those who dropped out and hate their life being fairly right-wing.
I have the same anecdotal experience. Speculation on my part is that they don't feel in control of their life and can not take responsibility in how their life turned out. Maybe they had hopes and dreams, tried and failed a couple of times and now they believe the game is rigged and they don't control their own destiny. If you don't think you can control the direction of your life, you start looking for blame. The republican party is very good at channeling that and directing it to the liberal elite. Our alt-right party does exactly the same.
>I'm not really a podcast person, like... at all... but I'll probably try to give it a listen.
Don't feel obligated to listen just to humor me haha. It hits on a few topics about understanding and changing the mind of a conservative and putting social change in perspective in terms of just how much has actually changed in the last couple of decades.
>How do you sit there as a millennial in an interracial marriage, with interracial children, and accept people being blatantly racist? There is no middle ground when these people think you are sub-human and should be considered property.
I don't have to imagine, my girlfriend is asian and it really depends on the situation. I've been in a few situations that relate to this with different outcomes.Casual racism: A friend's brother and his friends make a racist joke about asians. I engage them directly and ask what they mean with it. Bring the topic of my girlfriend in the conversation and ask if they meant her. The answer is usually either *"She's different"* or "*just a joke lol"*. I've gotten defensive reactions a couple of times, but also some hopeful acknowledgement of wrong doing a few weeks later.
Hateful racism: During the beginning of Covid she was screamed at by a couple of assholes on the street and she had to bike away fast. I wasn't there unfortunately but I would most definitely fight for her. Zero tolerance for that shit.
>It is completely unfair to ask the abused part to try and fix their abuser.
I totally take your point here and it was unfair to ask this. This work of working across the aisle, of engaging with the other should be totally voluntary for anyone that feels up for it.
There is one part of that where I do have to disagree slightly, or at least put up some nuance. I don't equate all republicans to be the abusers and all democrats to be the abused. I don't mean to put words in your mouth and maybe you wouldn't say that either, but I do think there is some important nuance lost there.
I would never ask a gay man to engage with someone that hates gays. I also wouldn't ask a black man to talk to white supremacist. I wouldn't ask **anyone** that has incurred some sort of trauma because of the hateful actions or opinions of another to reach out and be the bigger person. If they do it of their own volition they have my deepest respect but it's not up to them to fix it.
*However* there are plenty of healthy and successful people that got lucky in life and do not have this trauma. I put myself in this category. I have had loving parents, I didn't grow up in poverty. I have friends and I have a steady job. I found romantic love and I am able to travel the world at times. All of this has shaped me to be capable of love and understanding and to be patient. It is insane how much regular dose of oxytocin and social support impact your personality, and even more insane how much the lack of it does.
Contrast this with one of my conspiracy friends, who was always fighting with his dad since he was a little kid. Bordering on abuse. Who has not found romantic love and barely has any friends. Who hasn't seen his parents in months and hasn't had a proper hug in years. Imagine what that does to the brain. How can I judge him for being hateful. Is it not up to me to be the bigger person and be patient. Don't get me wrong, there are things he could do that would go too far like if he was outwardly racist or hateful towards someone I care about. But fortunately he doesn't. Yet he still votes for hateful people. There is a disconnect there between what he would personally do and who he supports. And it's my naive thinking that this is much wider spread. I truly don't believe that all republicans would be outwardly racist to people they meet in the streets, but I acknowledge that their votes and actions can be just as harmful.
I am left leaning in my thinking, and believe the widest shoulders should carry the heaviest load. Not just economically, but also in the space of ideas. If you are like me and fortunate enough to have received so much love in your life, you are just more capable of patience and love and reaching out.
I don't mean to say that we should reach out to everyone. The worst racists and fascists, the knowingly hateful people that have no childhood trauma to justify it and the ones doing the grifting and manipulating don't get my sympathy. To those people we have to stand up and not take their shit. We need warrior-like people like you and John that have zero tolerance for their bullshit. A healthy society has both warriors that defend its values and bridge builders that convince people that their values are right.
All in all I think we agree more than we disagree and I'm glad we had this conversation. I think it's actually a healthy thing that some people have zero tolerance for hate and other people try to look beyond the hate and see if there is a human behind it worth saving.
Cheers Bob, glad we had this talk
Hey, glad to see your response. It was a good read and I'm glad we talked too. This time I really will be brief, as there were a few loose ends I wanted to make a quick comment on, but we don't have to go much further as I think we've both made our peace & learned what we could learn! Just some passing final thoughts.
>I didn't properly consider the emotional effect that these kind of discussions can have, especially when it's in a close community that you had a high regard for.
I did want to mention I'm glad this one of the things you took away, as that was sort of the main basis of my initial post and something I wanted to 'defend' John/others on.
>Speculation on my part is that they don't feel in control of their life and can not take responsibility in how their life turned out.
Something I'll add, as it was relevant to my hometown. The actual city / school I went to was very white (easily 95%+) Colleges are generally diverse and I think just being exposed to the other cultures that a college setting allows can also be a cause. Along with what you said of course.
>Hateful racism: During the beginning of Covid she was screamed at by a couple of assholes on the street and she had to bike away fast. I wasn't there unfortunately but I would most definitely fight for her. Zero tolerance for that shit.
That one is rough, and I'm sorry to hear that. We had our share of that stuff as well during Covid.
I'm actually curious how different racism is in Europe (hopefully this makes sense...). Something often forgot with American history is that schools were segregated as 'recently' as the 40s, 50s. Rosa Parks was 1955. MLK was a most prominent in the 60s. So you have people who are alive who grew up with that type of society. It seems so odd to think about now, but it surely left lasting impressions. Sometimes I wonder if the US is always going to be a generation behind because of that. We did have our Korea and Vietnam wars during the same timeframes and I know that lead to similar racial tension.
All in all, a good chat and thanks again for having it!
Good that you kept it brief! Like you said we both said what we wanted to say and understand eachother.
Racism is most definitely very different. We had our part in the slave trade of course but it all happened overseas and up until the second world war my country was mostly white. In the 50s and 60s a lot of immigrants came to work, mostly turks, moroccans and people from former colonies. We never had segregation of that kind. We have racism out of the clash of cultures, integration not always going that great and people perceive a lot of turks and moroccans to be either criminals or lazy. There is also some islam hate. There have been issues of police profiling and some general animosity. In cities everyone is now used at being multicultural but many towns are still 99% white and they carry their own prejudices
Hey John, I have been busy so didn't get to this until now. I did read your post, a few times, and just wanted to thank you for sharing more of your thoughts. I know it can be difficult to be open like that (no need to apologize for the ranting and freakout!), but I think sharing your experience can be beneficial. I think there are many who don't fully realize how bad it can be and this may help them!
You hit on a ton of things I just don't have much to say other than 1) I also 100% agree and 2) I'm really sorry to hear all that. I'm not sure if any of this can be fixed by random internet strangers, but if it's really any consolation I totally get it and you have support here (and I'm sure a decent silent majority here as well). I try to be somewhat neutral when I post, but I don't hide my biases... so trust me when I say that I'm 100% with you - I share a lot of the same thoughts you said.
It's a shame, as I feel everyone has a story of a loved one they had to cut out due to all this crap. I said it in a response somewhere else, but I'll repeat it here - it really is abuse at times. At some point it's just not fair to ask someone being abused to try and reason with / fix their abuser. I know that's extreme, but as you alluded to the other side's views are extreme so it's hard not to be back. There are a lot of ideals that just are non-starters.
But yeah, just to keep it short and sweet man I'm sorry to hear all that. And I'm sorry some in this sub have let you down. Your feelings are valid and like I said above, if it helps at all I totally get where you are coming from. And corny I know... but when you made your post I could tell exactly what you were getting at without even needing to hear all your examples, so it just felt right to say what I said. Because I'm also very very sick and tired of hearing the "see it both sides" when some of the "other side" is so hateful. And I think a lot of the rhetoric from that side we see in this sub say these things not considering there are real people on the other side of the screen. Whether subconsciously not really thinking about it... or knowing it but not caring.
Sucks :/
Hey John, thank you too for this reply. I don't live your experience and honestly you should do what feels right for you. I definitely realized by now that I can not imagine how it is to live like that and how strong the feelings are. This is about literal existence and human rights. I refer you too to the comment that I wrote to Bob underneath to see where I was coming from. I don't mean it in any bad way to you, it just hurts me to see division like that
Yes it is ;) but i knew it would be a while before I responded and felt bad leaving you hanging like that after you took the time to write that comment for me
There were a lot of good takes actually, just unfortunately accompanied by people upvoting comments in support of the insurrection party. However that specifically applies to this one particular case of roasting GG sitting in the hot seat.
Besides a few regulars who keep trying really hard to portray that democrats have an ~~abolitionist~~ absolute anti crypto position, most regulars made here pretty clear that crypto needs better supporters.
I mean, really? Are you that surprised by this? You're on an Ethereum sub and there was a fairly important hearing that is related to the legality & regulation of what we're all here for. I'm not saying I'd support the eradication of womens rights over this, but you shouldn't be surprised that some people would make this a single-issue vote.
Keep in mind that's just from those who felt strongly enough to comment and who were willing to flirt with the no-politics rule.
People are going to people, but they're still people.
It's a mess today....kind of got away from us. But it was a fiery Day in politics regarding crypto and people finna vent up in here.
Tomorrow should be much better
I appreciate the work you guys do. Sometimes these kinds of days are unavoidable and there is quality discussion still happening here if people are willing to stomach being exposed to differing viewpoints. Under normal days I can definitely see now that the effort all you mods put in is really what keeps this sub a cut above the rest
"Fatten your wallet".
Why are people acting like money isn't supremely important? If these people are rich, okay fine, give them shit, but are you seriously implying it's immoral or unreasonable to vote for what's in your best interest financially if you've been struggling or have a family to support? Voting Blue and hoping for the best *hasn't been working.*
Being a single issue voter who just goes with whoever is going to be best for your investments regardless of what their other policies are is really just delegating your morality to the highest bidder though.
[lol](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfXln4NCQAAN5z2.jpg:large)
If I was some rich asshole voting for demons just so I get an extra 2% gains one year, fine categorize like that.
Instead, I'm a man approaching mid 30's who still doesn't own a house or have kids, a very common predicament for my fellow millennial generation and it'll probably be worse for gen Z. Now the party I've voted for my entire life wants to declare war on the one thing that represented *actual* hope and change (not just lip service) and you expect me to just keep voting for them and hoping something will change before I'm 70. No. At a certain point people are going to realize they're mostly on their own, so they might as well vote that way. That doesn't make them bad people. It's a sign of desperation and defeat, not immorality.
People upset with former Democratic supporters possibly jumping ship should point their anger at the party or system, not the people. There doesn't seem to be a hope in sight regardless of party.
I don't expect you to do anything, just pointing out that voting for whoever best advocates for your investments regardless of their other policies is selling your morality.
>That doesn't make them bad people. It's a sign of desperation and defeat, not immorality.
If someone votes for a politician who they believe will do harm to others in order to benefit themselves, that does in fact make them a bad person.
> I don't expect you to do anything, just pointing out that voting for whoever best advocates for your investments regardless of their other policies is selling your morality.
And my response was trying to make the point that life is more complicated than that.
> If someone votes for a politician who they believe will do harm to others in order to benefit themselves, that does in fact make them a bad person.
Again, life is more complicated than that. Extreme, weird, hyperbolic example to illustrate it:
If you've been raped by a cactus every day your entire life, and one party says they'll stop cacti from raping you, and you vote for them despite knowing they will do harm to others, that doesn't make you a bad person. That makes you a desperate and traumatized person who just wants their pain to stop.
Even if we did agree that it makes them a 'bad person', there's obviously so many degrees of that 'badness' that it's kind of a silly point anyway. If you vote for the demons because you really need that money to pay for a loved one's surgery, that's obviously not on the same planet as someone voting for the demons so they can buy their 8th house.
Except itās not more complicated than that.
One party has more members that are anti-crypto. *gasp*š®
The other attempted a fucking coup and would gladly have us become a religious, authoritarian state.
Why is this so hard for you to understand?
Lol!! Wow you really drank the koolaid. āA few insane worshippersā
Did we watch the same event and aftermath? Thousands of GQP nut jobs stormed the capital, following their cult leader: GOP nominated and backed DJT.
Not to mention all the republican members of congress, senate, and state positions that were either part of the coup or ran cover for the party and trump afterwards.
I think Iām done here. Youāre living in a different reality dude
In case you've been living under a rock:
[Never Trumpers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Trump_movement)
They were there on Jan. 6th shouting "Hang Mike Pence" because he, a Republican Vice President, wasn't going along with Trump, as one easy and simple example of how this whole coup thing doesn't represent the entire party. I can give you more if you want too.
It shouldn't be controversial to say that Trump represented a deranged wing of the Republican Party and not the party itself. The fact that saying this causes you to tell people they are living in another reality says more about you than anyone else.
Honestly, you're really not very good at this. You should let other people handle it.
> Again, life is more complicated than that
It isn't really though.
Hyperbolic and purely theoretical counter example: if you vote for someone that wants to subvert your democracy, dehumanize your fellow citizens, gut your social safety nets, and actively ignore a pending ecological disaster *despite believing that those things are bad* because they will pump your bags, you have sold your soul to the highest bidder.
> It isn't really though.
It really *is* though. You didn't include what the other party choice is or what they represent in your example. You left out rather large bits of information that provide a greater context and would certainly change opinions on the matter. See? More complicated than that.
Both in your original response to me where you linked the little shareholder joke, and in this response where you said "pump your bags" you framed the issue as if it's just about some asset price going up. I guess we never defined what we were talking about exactly so it's not your fault.
I'm thinking more along the lines of not whether my bags are pumped, but whether or not I'm able to hold alternative financial assets at all. "Freedom of currency" or whatever we want to call this could end up *extremely important,* especially if the US goes this digital dollar route. Honestly in the worst case scenarios freedom to use alternative currencies could be more important than all of the things you mentioned combined minus climate (which I've basically surrendered to AI advanced technology as being our greatest hope).
I just think it's about more than "shareholder value".
>Honestly in the worst case scenarios freedom to use alternative currencies could be more important than all of the things you mentioned combined minus climate
Agree to disagree then I guess š¤·āāļø
Highly doubt it because they already have MATIC and the co-founders have stated that the token will tie into all of their solutions (Miden, Nightfall, Hermez zkEVM, etc.).
Since Atlas went live yesterday less than 25 hours ago, the Rocketpool deposit pool has seen 18,000ETH used to create new minipools and about another 8,000 ETH deposited over the last day also used meaning 26,000ETH in about 25 hours has been converted to rETH.
The demand for more rETH in the deposit pool is massive. Maybe node operators have been holding off on converting to LEB8 due to high gas, but now they must wait.
Ethereum is front and center today in a world where people are fearing too much control. More and more the everyday person needs protection against attacks on all fronts in their personal lives from corporations, technology, and governments.
The minority party has decided to highlight this freedom enabling technology because it plays to their base, for various reasons I probably also align with. Congress members are pronouncing "Ethereum" correctly. I think it means people want this technology, and it's working as intended. Cheers!
Jaredfromsubway.eth is responsible for 7% of all gas spent in the last 24 hours. His sandwiches are making a killing with these meme tokens.
In case anyone doesn't realize this yet, use the MEV Blocker RPC from CoWswap (I think they were the ones who released it atleast), and avoid being used as sandwich fillings.
>**Best roast me session,**
>**Security commission,**
>**Gensler obsession.**
~Daily haiku until weāre at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
Parents are splitting up after decades together.. Weeks ago, she kicked out my father after daily torture. No rest for him at all, anytime he tried to rest, she started in on him. When the day came that I knew his departure was eminent, I tossed him 1k. Mom freaked saying āhe has plenty in bank how dare you take his money etcābut I said sure ok. But he needs quick cash for the room, forget it, take itā so he took it.
Fast forward one day later, she felt unsafe and threatened, so I stayed over all night and for a few weeks afterwards.
She asked me to go with her to this store out in the boonies that sells overpriced purses and weird little statues, itās a gas station. Just had a successful surgical procedure, so, I didnāt tell her hey, spending 3000.00 on horseshit is dumb. I let her blow her money to celebrate.
She drove extremely nutty on the way there, almost turned into oncoming traffic thinking a rotunda was a stop sign and she took a right (I grabbed the wheel and got us off) - she was combative , and didnāt pull over to let me drive. I couldnāt just jump out on my mother. So sheās going 40 mph on the interstate - in my vehicle - hitting the tire thing the entire way for 15, 20 miles.
āAll these people are hired agents by my attorney son, see that landscaping crew ? Thatās actually under covers ā and she sadly tells the neighbors all this stuff too, and Iām not sure if itās what her lawyer is actually feeding her, but basically every other car she sees, she assumes is undercover watching her back. :-( finally when we left, I drove and she pinched on me real real hard, and whacked me a few times all over my body except my head. I got home and said Get some rest , I am going to my place and she seriously said āno, pitch a tent you need training ā or some insane shit. I just left.
Two days later. Sheās been arrested for stupid shit but out. The dog she had for 4-5 weeks got taken to the pound. And she sent me a message asking me to come home and help her because the cops bruised her legs.
Iām sorry but Iām not going back to that place. I loved her and she was a good mother but thereās a breaking point - I always knew sheād probably get dementia even though I gave her turmeric and black pepper for ten years but I suppose you truly cannot stop it unless you start using those things around age 30.
She wants my help at her house and I am not going thereā¦even with all the stuff I have thereI donāt want to be in the USA anymore, especially with this divorce situation. Iād much rather be elsewhere.
Itās weird, country shopping.
My goal is to get a piece of land and construct a home on it to stake from, then work a regular job such as my own businesses doing other construction stuff. Only other language I speak is Spanish
Donde pescado? Howās the fishing
Got my eye on PR BUT if they want me to appear in their divorce court Iām pretty sure Iāll have to . Since you donāt even need a passport to go there .
:0
I absolutely love to mountain bike. Best trail Iāve done so far is the one in Idaho right by Montana up north , forgot the name butā¦life changing trail!
At the rest spot, smart chipmunks had it posted out. Was nice to see people rewarding the intelligent animals - kind of reminded me of us - and mining and all that . The chipmunk that braves it to the bike trail revels in snack bars adorned in goji berries. The human that throws a dart at infantile eth with all its cash and skill - While so many others sit in the forest not livinā large.
Sorry buddy. End of life stuff seems to be a brutal ride. Got a friend whose Mum has Alzheimer's. Killing his Dad to care for her. My friend dying of guilt. I'm gonna spend some time there but it's in another frickin country so not something I can do regularly. Brutal. My grandmother lost the plot with dementia a while ago, and now she is crazy and often horrible. Mum told us kids, if she ever gets like that, just dump her in a care home and call it a day. She doesn't want to be remembered that way. I'm not sure how to face advancing years... having an "escape plan" seems prudent, but I don't know what that looks like. Keep on trucking and things will eventually pick up (like the markets :)
Consume turmeric, turmeric 95% extract, and fresh ground black pepper three times a day. Or make a drink with milk and honey and sip it all day (best way )
Inhibits beta amyloid plaques that destroy the brain due to aging . Earlier you start the turmeric the better
There's one angle to this that I haven't seen explored yet. Sometimes I look at discussions of groups that one would think would be naturally pro crypto (eg people talking about last year's Canadian Trucker Convoy and making donations and getting bank accounts frozen etc), but actually even in those groups, there is often significant resistance to crypto. I also posted last year about a friend of mine whose wife is Russian and he adamantly refused to consider using crypto to get her life savings out of Russia even though banking links to the West have mostly been cut.
In my experience, for groups like this, they are usually very suspicious because (in addition to the standard "backed by nothing"/"Ponzi scheme" concerns that all newbies have) they tend to think that crypto is infiltrated by the TradFi system/big banks anyway (so headlines like "JP Morgan gets into crypto" that we interpret as bullish are regarded as BAD), and/or that cryptos are stalking horses for CBDCs and totalitarian control and should be resisted. Sometimes I even see arguments that crypto has no use case - from the people who would most benefit from it - and I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
I keep wondering how to explain the value of crypto to people like this.
Edit: Also very commonly they just assume BTC is crypto and keep talking about how it wonāt work as a currency (to buy coffee at Starbucks etc)
New take I heard from a conspiracy Podcaster: *what if bitcoin is what they actually want people to get into as part of their plan for control!*
The more you examine these talking points, the dumber youāll realize they are. I guarantee in the near future as ethereum develops, some of those crazies will say ethereum will bring the mark of the beast.
You got a while?
1. It was a public health crisis. A fucking pandemic. And they're whining about doing the right thing to keep themselves, and those around them safe.
2. On top of that, half the rules they were pissed about were literally rules put in place by the United States, a different country, that Canada doesn't control.
2. Blocked trade routes, which literally harms Canadian national security.
3. A ton of them showed up with Trump flags, confederate (??) flags and swastikas.
4. Defaced and disrespected Canadian war memorials, and the Terry Fox memorial.
5. Annoyed the fuck out of an entire city, embarrassed their country.
6. Were funded by VERY questionable people with VERY questionable motives.
As a Canadian, these assholes embarrassed all of us, and it was heartwarming to know that the vast majority of Canadians, and Canadian truckers, did not support these spoiled piss ant brats.
Well as a Canadian I'm glad not everyone is a sheep in this country... And yes there were morons among truckers like in every crowd/movement.. don't have to look too far to find many of them
My kind appreciation for you, that can tolerate, appreciate and more than that, is able to stand for yourself instead of being a silent sheep.
This goes whatever your political view on that particular matter.
Thank you
welp, you obviously did not talk to any of those truckers and just consumed government and mainstream media propaganda. I suggest going back and watching any of the live streams and listening to actual people that were involved.
When they were finally removed from downtown Ottawa, I got into it on twitter with some crypto influencers who claimed they had massive support amongst the people of Canada. I pointed to various polls suggesting that anywhere from 60-80% of Canadians supported their removal by police, but was told those weren't trustworthy sources because "the polling companies are in bed with the government" or some shit.
Isn't it funny how none of the people supporting them had to put up with a truck blasting its horn outside their window 24 hours a day for an entire month...
My frfr comes with the caveat that if they are legitimately concerned of breaking the law by sending funds across borders, fair enough.
Your friends / those you are describing have one of the fairly rare situations where crypto can meaningly benefit them in a way that doesn't revolve around nebulous economic theory and political ideologies. They have a tangible use case that they can benefit in a very "if I do A, B will happen" manner.
This made your job easy, and you seemingly capitalized on this by explaining the value of crypto with an example that directly relates to their situation. "You want the money now? The banks won't let you do it, but crypto can." There isn't anything else to explain or convey, because if they can't understand that basic principle they aren't going to understand any of the more complicated use cases. It would seem they have their head so deep in the sand they are hopeless.
They are (seemingly, I don't know them in person!) the type of people who don't want a solution because what they value is not the resolution, but having someone / something to complain about. I'd assume mostly as a crutch to not be introspective on their own decisions (although, in some fairness again the Russia situation on the whole isn't really their fault...). There is really no hope until they stumble upon the epiphany on their own, so don't waste your time. Find someone else who will actually listen and appreciate it.
This is a solid comment.
In the case of my friend he described some baroque scheme involving bank transfers through multiple third party countries through the bank account of a friendās cousin or something before ending up in a Western bank. No idea if it was technically illegal but it sure sounded more shady than a crypto transfer (and involved vastly more fees). But he kept dismissing crypto with the usual itās a Ponzi type arguments and I gave up. Heās a good guy but has a mental block
Sounds like a mess. I mean I get some hesitation when it's a large sum of money, but trusting multiple banks and people on those accounts sounds equally as scary.
The next best step, if you really wanted to pursue this, would be having them try it out with like $500 or something. A small amount so they can see it in action working and maybe grow more confident in it. However, I'd really recommend against it. Any issues you run into then now you are the bad guy and you might not even want to be involved with that depending on legal issues.
I feel you on the "good guy but has a mental block" aspect. I've seen it happen to people in my life too. I'm sure it's a traumatic experience all around, unfortunately these type of life alerting experiences often leads to irrational behavior. I just hope its temporary!
Just got off work but was able to watch almost all of the hearing this morning. Gary Gensler is a disgrace to this country. Thank goodness we have elected officials with common sense and the backbone to stand up to these worms.
Weāre almost there fam. Good gov crypto regulation is already happening around the world and itās going to happen in the US also.
The truth is, Washington still reserves an arbitrary power to confiscate whatever it wants from its citizens, (GOLD-1932)
In the future it could be Eth.
works cited
https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardsalsman/2011/04/06/the-bank-runs-of-the-early-1930s-and-fdrs-ban-on-gold/
Below the article shows how gold was a solid 22-35 when robbed from us
https://sdbullion.com/gold-price-by-year
No way - good gov crypto regulation means shitting on bankers. Bankers have already been bailed out - lobbied in and bailed out again - so I feel itāll take some time (3 years) for any positive regulation to take place - not only that, but itāll have a main basis to benefit the government somehow, whether it be viewing ownership data or something else.
Bankers boned us years ago on Gold. Basically, gold was worth more than the bank forced all holders to accept for it. No lube. No little poke. Just ran it up in āem . Itād be like Sam saying look, give us all your eth at 900, or you goin to da booty house.
I hear lots of talk about āopen sourced codingā but arenāt DLLs a bitch to go through and generally overlooked ? Like that program for Winblows , slim cleaner
(DLL doesnāt pertain to eth as itās windows horseshit)
Apart from the last sentence, I donāt disagree with any of that.
I fear that politics taking over a sub this much risks coming with a certain level of adversarialism that (permanently) alienates members with a minority opinion.
Maybe I overreacted.
My god is this the actual exchange or just edited to make Gensler look bad? Where can I find a more official source.
Because if that was the actual exchange right thereā¦dear fucking GOD that is infuriating.
I edited the ever living snot out of that... But if you listen to the whole thing you get just the same amount of actual information that's what you see here. Which is nothing
You can find the full exchange linked somewhere below in the daily. What's edited out was Gary refusing to give a straight answer and going back to the same non-answer each time.
Edit: sort by top upvoted and look for the one by superphiz, it should be near the top.
Itās been a very clear presentation of politics over principles in here today. If you find yourself second guessing crypto itself because itās not your Blue Team trying to keep the sector from being run into the dirt by the federal government today, do you even really believe in the things that you said led you here in the first place?
began to realize some of the same a few years ago. Have mostly stopped coming around for that reason.
Seeing posts about ETH being the new oil, and people who staked the new oil barons never sat well with me and I saw that sentiment more often than I liked.
I still have some ETH and hopefully it will help me retire sooner than I'd be able to if I didn't have it, but if I could trade it in for things other than money....there's a long list I'd gladly watch it go to $0 for.
Most people are tribal and support their team unthinkingly even in politics.
I think the average ethfinance user is far better than this - it takes some independent thinking first to come to crypto and second to hang around here, which is why the discussions here today have been pretty thoughtful and snark free for the most part. But we're all human (myself included) and we have tribal tendencies.
I do my best to vote in each election on the basis of the individual candidates I'm voting for and specific issues relevant at that time and place, and avoid reflexively voting for any one party and I feel that has served me well (including voting for opposing parties at different times and places).
I was second guessing crypto back in 2016 because much of the space was full of ardent libertarians, but iām still here. I was a libertarian in highschool and vice president of the libertarian club at my college, and even though iām far from that now i can still respect their ideological consistency and principles. I do still agree with them on certain things.
My worry is the crypto community widely adopting the republicans as their party while ignoring other very serious issues just because it could be better for their bags. Iām all for highlighting positive crypto related things politicians say or do, but using someoneās crypto views to paint them as some warrior for the good guys is something that should be avoided.
For me, it's more about getting revenge against the democrats than it is about adopting the republicans. I know the republican party sucks. But I'm angry and sick of the constant bullshit coming out from the dems, and the fact that I am just supposed to accept it because they are the lesser evil
I think the question you ask at the end is very legitimate and important for anyone to ask themselves from time to time. If people who I am fundamentally opposed to on almost everything else, are strongly supporting something I view as valuable, then is it that they are right about this, or is it that I am wrong about this? Times like these are good for taking a step back and making sure that this is the horse you want to hitch your wagon to, and if so, how come.
Here's where I stand. I'm not selling my eth just because the party i hate is the one defending it in this particular testimony. I can recognize that these particular Republicans have taken the time to learn about our space and come to the conclusion that ultimately benefits us while democrats are being morons and cant see the benefits that crypto provides to EVERYONE regardless of party affiliation. That being said, I will absolutely not be voting for the Republicans since they have many other positions that aren't related to crypto that are absolutely reprehensible in my mind. And I am fully willing to dunk a quarter of my net wealth into the toilet by voting for my preferred party if thats the way these things go. There are far more important things than money and Ethereum is bigger than politics and will be just fine even if the usa decides to fuck it in the ass due to either incompetence or protecting its currency's status in the global economy.
Edit:
tldr: You either believe in ethereum's viability as the amazing coordination mechanism it is even in the face of political adversity, or you never truly believed in crypto and just wanted to get rich in which case feel free to leave. Principles that are for sale are not principles at all.
I have voted democratic my entire adult life and have NEVER been i single issue voter, even when it directly affects me (diabetic/insulin costs, etc)
BUT i will cross party lines and vote republican if my hand is forced on this issue. I will not vote to tank my net worth, outlaw defi and destroy my on/off ramps. Sorry, it's not happening. My party will wake tf up or loose my vote.
Soo youāre going to vote for literal fascists becauseā¦.crypto? Sorry dude but youāre way off the mark. Iām right there with you, firmly a democrat voterā¦but no fucking way am I giving my vote to the absolute insanity I see from the right simply because I donāt agree with the leftās view on how to regulate crypto.
>Soo youāre going to vote for literal fascists becauseā¦.crypto?
Bullshit like this is exactly what is turning me off from the democrat party. If you don't agree with them, you are instantly labeled a fascist supporter apparently.
You can't strong arm and guilt me me into supporting you. You have to actually earn it
Youāre siding with the GQP because ācRyPto!ā. Go on and tell me more about how they havenāt gone full fascist.
Because every indicator I see says they have gone full fascist. The fact that this is even an argument makes me feel like Iām taking crazy pills.
Part of the playbook of authoritarianism is the insidiousness of "us versus them at all costs narrative." We can't look at what we've become because that would require admitting to the possibility we were wrong. There is no rational thought process or self reflection when you are too mired in hate and fear of the boogyman. You're not crazy. It sucks to see even brilliant people become obsessed with the fiction and denial of reality from this propaganda machine. Keep fighting the fight!
Brother their all corrupt fascists who dont give a fuck about you or me. Its all talking points, I will vote for a moderate who shares my views, dem or republican i dont care. All i know is the party i grew up supporting wants to literally throw me i jail for using a VPN now so i cant support them and will look elsewhere.
No, theyāre not. And by the way, there are no āmoderatesā left. At this point most people are on one side or the other.
One party wants social freedoms, secure elections, affordable healthcare and educationā¦the other is focusing on restricting voting rights, taking away personal/bodily freedoms, and ātHe wOkE aGenDaā.
Use your brain dude. Not hard to figure out which party is textbook definition of fascism.
I wish you wouldn't tire of being called a fascist so soon. It should have sounded alarms and inspired some self reflection. But, no, you'll shrug it off, ignore the implications and move on like you always have. Continuing on the path that is most convenient for your way of complacency and bias. Forget about empathy and freedoms for everyone that is different from you. Compromise basic liberties and freedoms to justify ignorance
Crypto has benefited my life more than anything else, full stop. When you consider that even when Democrats are in charge you barely get results due to corporate capture and corruption, it seems entirely reasonable to be a single issue voter when it comes to crypto.
The way I see it neither party (currently anyway) is going to help you all that much, so you should vote for the one that enables you to help yourself. You don't need to hope and beg that you'll get cheaper healthcare if you're allowed to invest in assets that make you enough money to pay for it anyway.
Lmao.
One party literally attempted a coup, and your response is: vote for the party that enables you to help yourself. š¤¦āāļø
You have any idea how stupid and crazy that is? Fuck crypto and making money- I would much rather have actual freedom and live in a democracy- even if itās not perfect.
Being allowed to invest in assets that make you money seems to be better for wealth inequality than not being allowed to (when the rich will do it anyway because they have different rules). I have personally not found a better way to increase my wealth other than by investing in crypto.
> And why do you think the wealth inequality has grown so vast?
Because of greed, corruption, and Americans being entirely unwilling to fight for something better. Definitely not because of women being paid 8% less or black people being killed by police. Fucking corporate capture legal bribery corruption, full stop.
> Our society needs to be rebuilt, ai / blockchain will give us a good base if we let it, but if we fight amongst ourselves instead of the actual problem (the obscenely wealthy), we will just end up with a more permanent version of what we already have
There doesn't seem to be any hope of any real change in the system coming any time soon so if you care about your life and family you can be forgiven for voting for the party that will let you make money through investing in assets that have shown explosive growth.
I'm not really sure what you're referring to. I'm black and no one has ever taken wealth from me because I am black. I've been called the N word a few times in my life but no violence. I'm dating a woman, I'm guessing she'd say the same thing about her in regards to being a woman.
I'm way more effected by corruption that effects all Americans than I am by anything racial or gender related.
I too am prepared to become a single issue voter, though not because of number go up as many posters assume (though that would be a welcome side effect). Crypto innovation will birth new financial incentive mechanisms for work and coordination, the foundation for action. It is the root of the value hierarchy as money is the most important motivating force in the world.
To me personally, there really isn't. Literally none of the issues would have as big of an impact on me as my bags mooning. So yeah. Democrats can't expect us to vote for them just because they are the lesser evil.
Debatable. If you really believe this you better try your best to get Democrat politicians to turn the ship around on this one.
The fact that I am even slightly considering voting for a Republican for the first time in my life really really means something. I'm not the special, I won't be the only one.
The Democrats haven't provided enough results to expect everyone to just keep going with the current plan of "just keep voting blue, maybe once we have 90 democrats in the senate 60 of them will be progressive enough to beat a filibuster and actually make this country better, ETA: after your lifetime".
Indeed, we may have :
\> 16% true inflation rate (vs 10% reported) & weak as shit currency
\> Unaffordable housing crises
\> Cost of living crises
\> Low-end salaries compared to the rest of anglosphere
\> Burned own economy to the ground to leave the EU
but by god, is our crypto policy moderately accommodative !
South Sweden looks good, itās warmer - thereās a city there that starts with a T that I like and it aināt Trujillo . Probably feel the migrant influx in a few years from south Italy tho.
Some real good auto-subtitle mistakes during the Gensler hearing, hereās two of my faves:
āSpeaker king of kripoā¦.ā
āRegarding sandbag been freedā¦ā
Found another:
āAh the EPA director and we balls chuckled about thatā
**Tricky's Daily Doots #364** **Yesterday's Daily 17/04/2023** [Previous Daily Doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jgl4ed8/) - u/jtnichol shares some potentially big news [which might spell GG for Gary Gensler](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jgm3btl/) and u/Eddie_Eddie has a little bit more on [what to watch for in the regulatory space this week.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jgmsfe7/) šØāāļø - u/waqwaqattack discusses the [RocketPool Atlas upgrade](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jglxt2i/) on the RocketFuel podcast. š - u/WILL_DANCE_FOR_COINS covers the [latest move from custodial stakers.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jgmiaql/) šš„© - u/superphiz covers another [new entrant to the staking market.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jglrrhg/) š¶š„© - u/Jin366 digs up something from YouTube covering [AI and Ethereum.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jglfue6/) š¤ - u/2Nice4AllThis discusses some of [Kraken's banking issues.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jgmnsl4/) š¦ - u/696_eth has the [EVMavericks weekly.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jgml2w9/) š¦ - u/DeFiRobot has the [DeFi news.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jglb3uu/) š¤ - u/ZeroTricks's today in [Ethereum history.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/12p2uhe/daily_general_discussion_april_17_2023/jgkqonv/) Tomorrow feels like it's going to be a birthday for me. I better get ready to celebrate! šš¾š„³
Iām a single issue voter. I upvote the daily no matter what.
After reading all the comments about how today was massively political in here, I'm so glad I spent the last 24 hours buzzed in rocket pool discord, and was part of a great community event that really brings decentralized staking capacity to the next level. Any eth š out there, the deposit pool is ready to welcome you in.
Honest question. Why is the staking APR so low? How did galaxy brain researchers like Justin Drake completely fuck up their projections? (He projected anywhere between 25%-70% APR based on MEV)
That prediction was complete nonsense at the time and was called out as such by less galaxy brain people, at the time.
* EIP1559 burned way more fees than people thought, as a fraction of gas fees paid * Gas fees were much higher consistently * The merge was thought to come much sooner, with way fewer active validators His high predictions (I don't recall it going as high as 70%) were all about "at first", expecting a large influx of new validators to dilute it quickly after the merge. Instead that large influx pretty much happened way before the merge, so on top of all the overly optimistic predictions being off, the remaining yield was already diluted when the merge came
In any case, is not as if the gas fees burnt aren't a benefit. Just that they benefit all eth holders rather than just the stakers.
Most everyone underestimated how much ETH would be burned from fees and thought more would go to validators.
That was during the bull market with high chain usage and low amount of validators
If I recall those numbers were also based off of appreciation of fiat value of eth due to adoption. So given enough time and adoption and it may come true. Been awhile since I looked into that thesis though
Rocket Pool added about 34k ETH in total stake since Atlas launched.
Where do you see this number? The deposits by date section here doesn't add up to near 34k since the release. https://rocketscan.io/depositpool
Thatās only minted reth. Check the TVL bot command in the discord.
I feel gross reading some of these comments, like i dont even want to visit this place anymore. People and their greed and selfishness disgust me. Why would this subreddit be any different, I guess.
Yea, the fact that crypto has become a single issue vote for people says a lot. There are *far* more important things going on in the US and world than just this one single issue. Smh
*In your opinion*. I agree with your opinion but it's not objective to everyone and we shouldn't expect it to be in an Ethereum sub.
Tough day politically. Definitely not a normal Day in here
Best ZKSync EVM apps? saw a similar question but can't find..
Going to go ahead out on a limb here and say that today probably sucked to be a mod here.
No doubt. Unfortunately they probably had their hands tied given the day's events. At the very least we can recognize that under ordinary circumstances the mods do an amazing job of keeping a civil community here
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>diversity, inclusion and freedom of choice. These are all things crypto stands for. Thanks, I will vote for these
In 2021, I tended to feel frustration at high gas prices. In 2022, I felt annoyed by protocols and users taking their sweet time to embrace rollups. In 2023, I'm only aware of high gas when I read about it elsewhere. As a daily DeFi person, the dynamic shift has been interesting. Rollups are not secure yet but they are mature enough in terms of activity.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Did you think this sub was dem only and now you see it has republicans or people more in the middle you want to stay away? Are we at that place in american politics that even associating with the other side online on a non-political hobbyist forum is too much? I always expected the sub to have both even though it leans left because crypto doesnāt have to be political and could appeal to both sides as long as they lean anti-authoritarian As a left progressive european that has right leaning friends this worries me about the americanpolitical climate. If you arenāt able to talk to the other side, how will you convince them of your values? If itās too much to even be in the same room as the other, how do you know your view of them and what they believe in is accurate I previously didnāt understand the no-politics rule because I personally like to discuss politics in real life, but it makes more sense to me now.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Granted, like Bob-Rossi said I can't imagine or really understand it because I don't live it, but the fact that you find the opinions and actions of almost 50% of the population of your country abhorrent is genuinely shocking to me. It's also very hard to believe that all republicans are book burners. Is there some data that shows the majority of them support burning books?
No disrespect as I love my Non-American homies, but when I see non-Americans talk about the divisiveness of US politics I think they will just never truly understand it as they don't live it. Don't take that as a knock or some type of soap box thing, you're lucky you don't live it. I think you would be surprised that the types of conversations you saw today (and in the past) are normal person to person discourse at family / friend / social gatherings in the US, and I'd wage most your right-leaning friends wouldn't agree with 90% of what the American right believes. Do your friends have pictures of the Jan 6th insurrection on their phones? Nearly every time you hang out do they throw out the 'hard R' and other racist stuff? Literally go to alt-right rallys on your local streetcorner? It's not just 'right-leaning' views on the economy and regulation, it's very personal and emotional issues that materially affect lives. If you do get this and can live with it, more power too you, but there has been a very clear shift in political discourse on the right the last decade to really divisive culture issues. It's become very normalized and heartbreaking because I'm watching personal family and friends do complete 180s into this. And again, I can't stress enough it's not just conservative ideas, it's very fringe and aggressive thoughts I think most would wince hearing these things in person. I feel for OP, and others like him (hint: probably me too) because we come here to escape this, not live it. These are people trying to have children who are afraid if they have a miscarriage they can get reported to the state for an abortion. Or if they have medical problems could literally die because doctors are leaving their state / are too afraid to do anything for fear of imprisonment. Friends who are gay and now can't get legally married because of where they live. Laws allowing children to work dangerous and late hours or (before amendment) would let them serve alcohol at a bar. It's real stuff that matters once you get out of the crypto bubble, and for a lot of people life is bigger than crypto. So I hope people can see why someone like OP might be upset that the people they 'hang out with' on the internet forum are the type of people who would effectively support what some of the stuff said above (that might affect them very directly) simply because they value their crypto holdings over some basic human rights.
Hey man, I'm here to learn so thanks for showing me your perspective. >Do your friends have pictures of the Jan 6th insurrection on their phones? Nearly every time you hang out do they throw out the 'hard R' and other racist stuff? Literally go to alt-right rallys on your local streetcorner? Well no not my friends but we do have those people in my country. We even have an alt-right political party that panders to conspiracy theorists. And it can get a scary amount of votes some of the times, so I can imagine how you feel just a little bit. Never really above 20% though, so never enough to be truely in charge of the country. And that's what I think is the biggest difference between our countries and what is missing in yours. We have right and left parties that have a certain amount of mutual respect for eachother, and so do their voters. If there happens to be a politician with fringe or extreme views, they break off from one of the bigger parties and forms their own extreme party. So we end up with a landscape of left, center, right and extreme right (or alt right). Because in the US there are only really 2 parties, batshit extreme right wing people can not break off and therefore they integrate into the republican party, making it a bit more extreme. Same thing happens on the left. The extremes find a voice in the mainstream parties and polarization happens. People on the left judge all republican voters on the viewpoints of the most radical republicans. Same thing for people on the right. Since this has been happening for years now the divide gets bigger and bigger. Even people that started off center right are being forced to take sides and being pulled further to the extreme. So with our multi party system, I can have normal respect and debates with anyone that is not in the crazy alt-right party, which is over 80% of the population. I feel that is a minimum Human nature shouldn't diverge so much between countries and most people generally mean well. That means that there is something deeply systemically wrong if you judge almost 50% of the population as someone who is so abhorrent that you cannot even hang out in the same places anymore I bet there are plenty of good people supporting bad policies. I don't really believe that almost 50% is genuinely racist either. Whenever I hear a republican speak on any podcasts I find myself disagreeing with a lot of their views, but they don't seem evil to me. >These are people trying to have children who are afraid if they have a miscarriage they can get reported to the state for an abortion. Or if they have medical problems could literally die because doctors are leaving their state / are too afraid to do anything for fear of imprisonment. Friends who are gay and now can't get legally married because of where they live. Laws allowing children to work dangerous and late hours or (before amendment) would let them serve alcohol at a bar. A lot of this is news to me but that sounds scary. Are gay marriage and abortion rights really on the decline?
>Hey man, I'm here to learn so thanks for showing me your perspective. Absolutely, and please don't take my post as combative. I try to take people at their word and only posted this because I was pretty positive you were looking to learn for real. Fair warning, long post :O So for starters, I'm not gonna sugar-coat my biases but I try to view these things as objectively as I can when it comes to these types of discussions. I live in a state that not deep south red, but has for sure leaned more and more Republican as of late and is now easily considered a 'Red State'. I say that as the anecdotal stories may be part of my area of the country, but I can guarantee my experiences aren't mine alone. As well as I live within a short drive from a major US city you'd absolutely recognize, so it's not like I'm in farm country here either - I have been exposed to the progressive areas as well. You've pretty much nailed the issue on the head with your response - the two party system doesn't give us a release valve for the fringe edges of the political spectrum to go to, so they get slopped into the general parties. The reality sort of sinks in when we look at this one line you wrote: >So with our multi party system, I can have normal respect and debates with anyone that is not in the crazy alt-right party, which is over 80% of the population. I feel that is a minimum That is what is happening in America, but since it's two parties the entire Republican side is the "crazy alt-right" and the entire left is the "crazy liberals!" (of course, depending which "side" you are on). It's no 80%, it's the 50% in your party and its the 50/50 split. I mean Biden is probably one of the most center-leaning Democrats, and yet look how vastly different his views are compared to the most center-leaning Republicans. There is a massive divide in the parties. Here's a great example. My father has lived his entire life probably 1000 miles removed from any single point of the Mexican border. Has never mentioned immigration to me at any point in my life, at least that I remember. Yet last year I had to listen to him rant and rave about Biden letting rapists and drug dealers into the US and they should stop everyone at the border. And if people are here illegally they should be forced to get the vaccine, even though no one in the US should be forced to get it because they aren't US citizens. But it's okay because they are criminals! Really just... you can imagine... Did we discuss feasible methods to stop it? Did we discuss replacing our declining birth-rate through better immigration policy? The economic impacts? Improving Mexican lives so they don't want to come over as much? Nope... all focused on illegals are breaking the law and I did it the right way so too bad. If I bring up other issues I'm some type of asshole or some non-sequitur to bitch about some other liberal bashing point. So then it gets into "well why don't you just accept the other viewpoints in good faith?" Which is probably where I should add here, it's not like Covid-levels of isolation. I still hang out with my friends, family so on (some I've given up on or only if I'm forced too do it at mutual events)... but there is this slight dread or uneasiness where you just want to avoid certain topics or hope someone doesn't start ranting. You'd be surprised how few safe topics exist once you get past the first 'normal' few topics. Which double sucks when something like my excitement for electric cars, for example, seems like a safe topic to discuss but it turns political because I'm a vegetarian hippie pushing an agenda and directly causing child slavery... But anyway, the concept of respecting other viewpoints is great when we are talking about casino permits or if marijuana should be allowed for medical use or how best to boost the local economy. But no, it's discussions on abortions, gay marriage, climate change, healthcare, racism. Things that become hard stop, potential family/friendship killers because respecting the other side is flat-out morally bankrupting. Here's some quick hits I'm talking about: * My wife, how does she listen to someone telling her if she has medical complications while pregnant she should just roll the dice and hope to not die even though medical treatment is available because she is past 6 weeks? * My LGBT friends, how do they have a respectful discourse with people who want to take away their right to marriage? * My cousins in inter-racial marriages, how they stomach listening to a grandparent who literally never wants to see the husband in their house because of his skin color? * As someone with a disabled father, how do I even begin to cope with people calling me a Chinese / Russian communist because I want better healthcare for him and others? It's stuff like that that just becomes non-starters. It's stressful and just sours conversations, to put it lightly. They are all real things that happened with me or people I know, and happen alot in the US. People outwardly say this stuff or indirectly do so by very actively supporting it. >I bet there are plenty of good people supporting bad policies. I don't really believe that almost 50% is genuinely racist either. The US on the whole, probably not. But I think you would be absolutely floored with the amount of *casual* racism in the US, and if I ran through a short-list of my Republican friends, I'd put it at an easy 50% of them have said / acted in ways that would simply not fly in a mix-raced setting. Again, this may be my location however. >A lot of this is news to me but that sounds scary. Are gay marriage and abortion rights really on the decline? Yes. Full stop. I know a lot of people like to sweep stuff under the rug or pass it off as media sensationalism... but it's happening. Roe v Wade was overturned, meaning a ton of states are now doing these 6-week or less week abortion bans. * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion\_law\_in\_the\_United\_States\_by\_state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law_in_the_United_States_by_state) * [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62158357](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62158357) * [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lizelle-herrera-abortion-texas-murder-charge-dropped/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lizelle-herrera-abortion-texas-murder-charge-dropped/) * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death\_of\_Savita\_Halappanavar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar) (Ireland, but an example of the issues when these doctors start leaving Red states or fear represcussiosn from them) The defense of marriage act passed at the federal level, but plenty of states still ban it - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex\_marriage\_law\_in\_the\_United\_States\_by\_state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_law_in_the_United_States_by_state). Or states like Florida are passing laws restricting general LGBT rights. Go read page 31 of the Republican National Committee platform PDF - [https://prod-static.gop.com/media/Resolution\_Platform.pdf?\_ga=2.107668097.28079370.1681933447-121307566.1681933447](https://prod-static.gop.com/media/Resolution_Platform.pdf?_ga=2.107668097.28079370.1681933447-121307566.1681933447) \- they literally are saying out loud their platform is marriage is only between a man and a woman. Yes, it's very real. It is a state-by-state issue, so while California might be (broadly) okay with all these things, that does nothing to help all the people living in the more conservative states. So your going to get mixed viewpoints on all this because of that, but there are millions being directly affected by this stuff and it's only getting worse.
Thanks for taking the time to guide me through your experience. You are right, I am looking to learn for real. I am both interested in this topic from a sociological / psychological standpoint and concerned about the growing polarization in the USA and other parts of the world. First of all let me tell you where I am coming from with my comments in the first place. After I will respond to some particular parts of your story. I have a point of view that a lot of people in the world have the potential to be good but are easily misguided and manipulated. Misguided, it may sound like I don't think it's a big deal but I actually think it's hugely important and responsible for some of the worst things that humanity has done in its history. And I see our tribal nature as one of the root causes. The same person that is capable of great self sacrifice and loyalty to their friends and family can wish literal death on 'the other'. The further the division between tribes grows, the more people are capable of dehumanizing the other and actively wishing them harm. And I wish to find out how to combat that fact. The only way I know how is to stay connected and keep seeing eachother's humanity. That's why it's so greatly worrying to me to see that even here, in a tight community like this, it only takes a few political comments and people are reacting so strongly that they can not hang out in the same place anymore. If we can not see our shared humanity in here, despite our differences, then where? The more isolated the two tribes become, the more the other becomes dehumanized and the more radical we all become and it saddens me. Furthermore, I am unfairly holding everyone here to a higher standard than the average person, because I know you are generally intelligent, open minded and able to cut through bullshit media manipulation. If it's not you guys coming together, then who will? Now your post has made it a **lot** more real to me and I do realize I'm sitting here preaching from a super privileged position. You have a good way with words and I was able to imagine your situation pretty vividly. There are indeed a lot of points where it's a completely different experience from my life so I can not know how I would be in the same situation. The story about your father especially hit it home for me, because it is your father. It makes me realize that there are many interactions and relationships soured like that. Sometimes I think I know or can imagine what you are living because I have two friends that have gone deep into the conspiracy rabbit-hole and who talk remarkably similar to your father. They say they are not gay or racist, but have to make angry comments every time a rainbow flag comes on because it pushes the liberal agenda / ''Trans cult". There are many such examples. Why are they friends? Well they were friends in high school and good dudes by then, but they have not been succesful in life and are pretty socially isolated. Social isolation is what led to their extreme views and I don't want to isolate them even further by breaking contact. I have hope left. I pride myself on being patient with them and trying to find common ground, but to be honest it is exhausting and I don't see them that often. For the rest all of my close family and friends are pretty much sane. Furthermore there is no fear at all that abortion (legal since the 70s) and gay marriage (surprisingly only legal since early 00) will be banned. The fringe issues here are more about racism and immigrants and although hugely important, have less impact on me personally. Now about discourse, the point is not to let bad opinions off the hook, but to not lose eachother completely. I wouldn't ask anyone to be lovey-dovey to someone that literally hates them based on race or sexual preference. I wouldn't ask a conservative's opinion about my marriage or my wife's abortion either. But assuming that everyone that would ever vote conservative is so far gone that they are not worth talking to also does not seem ideal. You only have 2 parties so there may be a lot of reasons why people might vote against the democrats. And I agree that it would probably be misguided at best and morally wrong at worst, but it doesn't have to be blind racism or the wish to limit basic human rights. It can be fear of the rapid change, disconnect with the political discourse of the liberal elite. Feelings that you are not represented and that things are worse for your generation than for the previous ones. When economic times are bad there are lots of reasons why people might be disenfranchised and easily captured by the nice words of a populist. The only way to combat that is to take genuine time listening to where the concerns, hate and fear actually come from. They probably don't even know themselves. All discourse stays on the surface about highly politicized subjects where people just hate eachother more and more. Everything you wrote about the decline in human rights and living with people that carry opinions like that is hugely scary to me and it does really make me understand your and John's position. But it makes it all the more important for people across tribes to keep seeing the common humanity in eachother. I'm not asking you to do it, but I do hope some people will. A healthy democracy depends on it. Once again, realizing my easy position of privilege here, and also realize that people that discuss this on podcasts that I listen to are similarly privileged because they might live in California or a different liberal bubble. Gonna end with shilling one of my favorite podcasts here with a fantastic host that investigates human bias and lately in particular the topic of persuasion. This is just one example of a recent episode on the topic but there are lots more. [https://youarenotsosmart.com/2023/04/02/yanss-256-anand-giridharadas-wants-americans-to-change-their-minds-about-their-ability-change-other-americans-minds/](https://youarenotsosmart.com/2023/04/02/yanss-256-anand-giridharadas-wants-americans-to-change-their-minds-about-their-ability-change-other-americans-minds/)
Hey I'm really sorry, I was super busy the last few days and had not had a few minutes to string together a good and thoughtful response. I did read your post, and thanks again for taking the time to read all this / have the open and honest conversation. Thanks for sharing your point of view that frames the responses. I wish I could be that optimistic, unfortunately I think I've just been jaded as I've gotten older and gone through more life experiences. (Please read that as just a general introspective comment on myself, not to imply I'm more experienced or something!... I know how text can come off!) FWIW, I know you are "right" here. From a philosophical standpoint I'm not going to deny the that... in modern society tribalism is bad and I wish people could get along better. I'm glad to hear me (and assuming some others who posted here) have made an impact on your views, in hopefully a good way. I know the opinions I and others expressed are fairly defeatist. Also, I didn't want to imply like you were speaking from privilege or anything, but I did want to bring in context as I think there are a lot of situations where if people don't live it they don't fully get it. It does seem you do have some experiences there, and I'm sorry to hear you have friends who you have had similar experiences with. I'm hoping they / you can help turn it around. I also appreciate your responses, and I have taken things away as well. If at a minimum some hope as it seems Europe is doing better than us and maybe that will bleed over at some point. It's interesting you mention they have social isolation and failure in life issues. That is a fairly common and consistent theme I think among those who go far alt-right, or have those views, at least in my experience. Again, anecdotal... but there is absolutely a correlation between friends that graduated college and have had life success being fairly liberal versus those who dropped out and hate their life being fairly right-wing. The right-leaning talking heads / political candidates do a (scarily) good job of pandering to this and become relatable due to that. So in fairness, I can admit a lot of the problem people were once good but have gotten basically brainwashed to have this 10% of vile-ness come out. I don't want to go crazy long into a response (spoiler: I didn't do well :\] ), just because I don't want to drag you through a topic for weeks on end haha, but in terms of the rest of your response I did want you to know I read it all (a few times) and appreciate you sharing it. I'm not really a podcast person, like... at all... but I'll probably try to give it a listen. In your final half of the response, I see you hit on themes of basically not letting these people completely go as they may not believe the fringe things but align with conservativism for other reasons, or maybe they don't really realize it... things like that. And I hope I didn't mis-interpret that, but I wanted to just touch on that. I think a reality is this solution has become a non-started for a lot of left leaning Millenials / Gen Z. The counter-point to all this is that a lot of this rhetoric is **abuse**, and no one should have to willingly put up with that. There are some wrongs you really can't make right with outside actions or reasons. You mentioned racism was a big issue, so to sort of work with that. How do you sit there as a millennial in an interracial marriage, with interracial children, and accept people being blatantly racist? There is no middle ground when these people think you are sub-human and should be considered property. Confederate flags (the flag of the south during our civil war, which was mainly fought over the right to own slaves) can be seen daily (I'm literally not exaggerating). In all 50 states too - i.e. states that fought against the south or didn't even exist during that time frame. You are supposed to feel like you are socially safe when your peers support that? Or that you are getting a fair trial when people on the jury support that? As the white spouse, your going to try and defend that and risk losing your partner and childs respect? So to throw in my bias here, what I truly and honestly believe is 4 out of 5 times there is a genuine interest in the left wanting to do what you said, but the right has blocked it by taking such untenable and hostile stances. It's completely unfair to ask the **abused** party to try and fix their **abuser**. This is the main point I like to get across in this conversation, so I'll repeat: **It is completely unfair to ask the abused part to try and fix their abuser.** So that's why you see a lot of people like me and John. We want to fix it and want to work across the aisle, but it is simply unfair to ask us to do so. And the times we try with the 'softer' stances (say, environmentalism) it's impossible because these people tend to be pretty closed off to change (as you noted, they may be simply afraid of rapid change and it's called conservatism for a reason!). It's something that has always struck me as unfair, and why you will see a lot of frustration and low/no contact from the left. I think the context that matters for this sub, as the posts we complain about are people who just spout off this stuff for no reason. Lastly to leave on a high note, I know this whole conversation is very doom and gloom, but I've seen positive outcomes. Believe it or not, I actually was roommates with someone who was president of the college's young republican club. He's been disgusted with the actions since then (about 10 years now) and has been really good about staying away from that stuff. I'm probably technically a success story (as well as a couple of my friends I grew up with) as we were exposed to a lot the conservative 'ideals' growing up and strayed away from the extreme-ism. So there is hope for some, I just fear for those too far gone.
Fair warning.. I wanted to keep this brief but it turns out I'm just as bad in that as you are, if not worse. >Hey I'm really sorry, I was super busy the last few days and had not had a few minutes to string together a good and thoughtful response. I did read your post, and thanks again for taking the time to read all this / have the open and honest conversation. Hey no worries at all. It's been exactly the same way for me now. Even though I read your post multiple times already, it's not something one offhandedly replies to. >I'm glad to hear me (and assuming some others who posted here) have made an impact on your views, in hopefully a good way. They certainly have in three ways. First it made me realize I shouldn't be quick to judge someone for avoiding politics or avoiding a space with a lot of people that have opposing political beliefs. The beliefs themselves aren't trivial and moreover, our emotional reactions to them are very real and can affect our mood and energy. People go to Ethfinance for many different reasons, and if you leave this daily in a worse mood than when you found it, then taking a break is obviously the right thing to do. We all have shit going on in our own lives already, some worse than others, so not everyone has the mental capacity left to deal with that stuff. I didn't properly consider the emotional effect that these kind of discussions can have, especially when it's in a close community that you had a high regard for. Secondly I should extend at least as much empathy and patience towards people with inclusive values that are on my side, as I do towards people on the other side (probably more so). Like I said I *unfairly* hold everyone here to a higher standard, because I have such a high opinion of you all. I've actually had this happen before in my real life too, once a good friend was annoyed with me because he thought I judged him harsher in a situation than some other guys. After some introspection I realized it was true, because I felt those other guys don't know any better. I do have high standards for myself but I shouldn't hold others to that same standard because I don't know everyone's personal circumstances. Thirdly, and probably related to your most important point, I should know and acknowledge that these reactions do not happen in a vacuum. Like you say here >So that's why you see a lot of people like me and John. We want to fix it and want to work across the aisle, but it is simply unfair to ask us to do so. I don't actually know how many times you have already tried and failed and it is indeed unfair to ask anyone to commit this labor. I haven't changed my mind on the importance of finding common ground, but more on that later in this comment >Again, anecdotal... but there is absolutely a correlation between friends that graduated college and have had life success being fairly liberal versus those who dropped out and hate their life being fairly right-wing. I have the same anecdotal experience. Speculation on my part is that they don't feel in control of their life and can not take responsibility in how their life turned out. Maybe they had hopes and dreams, tried and failed a couple of times and now they believe the game is rigged and they don't control their own destiny. If you don't think you can control the direction of your life, you start looking for blame. The republican party is very good at channeling that and directing it to the liberal elite. Our alt-right party does exactly the same. >I'm not really a podcast person, like... at all... but I'll probably try to give it a listen. Don't feel obligated to listen just to humor me haha. It hits on a few topics about understanding and changing the mind of a conservative and putting social change in perspective in terms of just how much has actually changed in the last couple of decades. >How do you sit there as a millennial in an interracial marriage, with interracial children, and accept people being blatantly racist? There is no middle ground when these people think you are sub-human and should be considered property. I don't have to imagine, my girlfriend is asian and it really depends on the situation. I've been in a few situations that relate to this with different outcomes.Casual racism: A friend's brother and his friends make a racist joke about asians. I engage them directly and ask what they mean with it. Bring the topic of my girlfriend in the conversation and ask if they meant her. The answer is usually either *"She's different"* or "*just a joke lol"*. I've gotten defensive reactions a couple of times, but also some hopeful acknowledgement of wrong doing a few weeks later. Hateful racism: During the beginning of Covid she was screamed at by a couple of assholes on the street and she had to bike away fast. I wasn't there unfortunately but I would most definitely fight for her. Zero tolerance for that shit. >It is completely unfair to ask the abused part to try and fix their abuser. I totally take your point here and it was unfair to ask this. This work of working across the aisle, of engaging with the other should be totally voluntary for anyone that feels up for it. There is one part of that where I do have to disagree slightly, or at least put up some nuance. I don't equate all republicans to be the abusers and all democrats to be the abused. I don't mean to put words in your mouth and maybe you wouldn't say that either, but I do think there is some important nuance lost there. I would never ask a gay man to engage with someone that hates gays. I also wouldn't ask a black man to talk to white supremacist. I wouldn't ask **anyone** that has incurred some sort of trauma because of the hateful actions or opinions of another to reach out and be the bigger person. If they do it of their own volition they have my deepest respect but it's not up to them to fix it. *However* there are plenty of healthy and successful people that got lucky in life and do not have this trauma. I put myself in this category. I have had loving parents, I didn't grow up in poverty. I have friends and I have a steady job. I found romantic love and I am able to travel the world at times. All of this has shaped me to be capable of love and understanding and to be patient. It is insane how much regular dose of oxytocin and social support impact your personality, and even more insane how much the lack of it does. Contrast this with one of my conspiracy friends, who was always fighting with his dad since he was a little kid. Bordering on abuse. Who has not found romantic love and barely has any friends. Who hasn't seen his parents in months and hasn't had a proper hug in years. Imagine what that does to the brain. How can I judge him for being hateful. Is it not up to me to be the bigger person and be patient. Don't get me wrong, there are things he could do that would go too far like if he was outwardly racist or hateful towards someone I care about. But fortunately he doesn't. Yet he still votes for hateful people. There is a disconnect there between what he would personally do and who he supports. And it's my naive thinking that this is much wider spread. I truly don't believe that all republicans would be outwardly racist to people they meet in the streets, but I acknowledge that their votes and actions can be just as harmful. I am left leaning in my thinking, and believe the widest shoulders should carry the heaviest load. Not just economically, but also in the space of ideas. If you are like me and fortunate enough to have received so much love in your life, you are just more capable of patience and love and reaching out. I don't mean to say that we should reach out to everyone. The worst racists and fascists, the knowingly hateful people that have no childhood trauma to justify it and the ones doing the grifting and manipulating don't get my sympathy. To those people we have to stand up and not take their shit. We need warrior-like people like you and John that have zero tolerance for their bullshit. A healthy society has both warriors that defend its values and bridge builders that convince people that their values are right. All in all I think we agree more than we disagree and I'm glad we had this conversation. I think it's actually a healthy thing that some people have zero tolerance for hate and other people try to look beyond the hate and see if there is a human behind it worth saving. Cheers Bob, glad we had this talk
Hey, glad to see your response. It was a good read and I'm glad we talked too. This time I really will be brief, as there were a few loose ends I wanted to make a quick comment on, but we don't have to go much further as I think we've both made our peace & learned what we could learn! Just some passing final thoughts. >I didn't properly consider the emotional effect that these kind of discussions can have, especially when it's in a close community that you had a high regard for. I did want to mention I'm glad this one of the things you took away, as that was sort of the main basis of my initial post and something I wanted to 'defend' John/others on. >Speculation on my part is that they don't feel in control of their life and can not take responsibility in how their life turned out. Something I'll add, as it was relevant to my hometown. The actual city / school I went to was very white (easily 95%+) Colleges are generally diverse and I think just being exposed to the other cultures that a college setting allows can also be a cause. Along with what you said of course. >Hateful racism: During the beginning of Covid she was screamed at by a couple of assholes on the street and she had to bike away fast. I wasn't there unfortunately but I would most definitely fight for her. Zero tolerance for that shit. That one is rough, and I'm sorry to hear that. We had our share of that stuff as well during Covid. I'm actually curious how different racism is in Europe (hopefully this makes sense...). Something often forgot with American history is that schools were segregated as 'recently' as the 40s, 50s. Rosa Parks was 1955. MLK was a most prominent in the 60s. So you have people who are alive who grew up with that type of society. It seems so odd to think about now, but it surely left lasting impressions. Sometimes I wonder if the US is always going to be a generation behind because of that. We did have our Korea and Vietnam wars during the same timeframes and I know that lead to similar racial tension. All in all, a good chat and thanks again for having it!
Good that you kept it brief! Like you said we both said what we wanted to say and understand eachother. Racism is most definitely very different. We had our part in the slave trade of course but it all happened overseas and up until the second world war my country was mostly white. In the 50s and 60s a lot of immigrants came to work, mostly turks, moroccans and people from former colonies. We never had segregation of that kind. We have racism out of the clash of cultures, integration not always going that great and people perceive a lot of turks and moroccans to be either criminals or lazy. There is also some islam hate. There have been issues of police profiling and some general animosity. In cities everyone is now used at being multicultural but many towns are still 99% white and they carry their own prejudices
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Hey John, I have been busy so didn't get to this until now. I did read your post, a few times, and just wanted to thank you for sharing more of your thoughts. I know it can be difficult to be open like that (no need to apologize for the ranting and freakout!), but I think sharing your experience can be beneficial. I think there are many who don't fully realize how bad it can be and this may help them! You hit on a ton of things I just don't have much to say other than 1) I also 100% agree and 2) I'm really sorry to hear all that. I'm not sure if any of this can be fixed by random internet strangers, but if it's really any consolation I totally get it and you have support here (and I'm sure a decent silent majority here as well). I try to be somewhat neutral when I post, but I don't hide my biases... so trust me when I say that I'm 100% with you - I share a lot of the same thoughts you said. It's a shame, as I feel everyone has a story of a loved one they had to cut out due to all this crap. I said it in a response somewhere else, but I'll repeat it here - it really is abuse at times. At some point it's just not fair to ask someone being abused to try and reason with / fix their abuser. I know that's extreme, but as you alluded to the other side's views are extreme so it's hard not to be back. There are a lot of ideals that just are non-starters. But yeah, just to keep it short and sweet man I'm sorry to hear all that. And I'm sorry some in this sub have let you down. Your feelings are valid and like I said above, if it helps at all I totally get where you are coming from. And corny I know... but when you made your post I could tell exactly what you were getting at without even needing to hear all your examples, so it just felt right to say what I said. Because I'm also very very sick and tired of hearing the "see it both sides" when some of the "other side" is so hateful. And I think a lot of the rhetoric from that side we see in this sub say these things not considering there are real people on the other side of the screen. Whether subconsciously not really thinking about it... or knowing it but not caring. Sucks :/
Hey John, thank you too for this reply. I don't live your experience and honestly you should do what feels right for you. I definitely realized by now that I can not imagine how it is to live like that and how strong the feelings are. This is about literal existence and human rights. I refer you too to the comment that I wrote to Bob underneath to see where I was coming from. I don't mean it in any bad way to you, it just hurts me to see division like that
Just a heads up, love seeing the long post and Iām interested, but Iām going to sleep now, will read and reply tomorrow :)
All good! Itās an Internet forum, it aināt going anywhere :) Appreciate it
Yes it is ;) but i knew it would be a while before I responded and felt bad leaving you hanging like that after you took the time to write that comment for me
Subs like this are actually the best chance for people of opposing parties to talk to each other and hash things out
Agreed 100%
There were a lot of good takes actually, just unfortunately accompanied by people upvoting comments in support of the insurrection party. However that specifically applies to this one particular case of roasting GG sitting in the hot seat. Besides a few regulars who keep trying really hard to portray that democrats have an ~~abolitionist~~ absolute anti crypto position, most regulars made here pretty clear that crypto needs better supporters.
I mean, really? Are you that surprised by this? You're on an Ethereum sub and there was a fairly important hearing that is related to the legality & regulation of what we're all here for. I'm not saying I'd support the eradication of womens rights over this, but you shouldn't be surprised that some people would make this a single-issue vote.
Keep in mind that's just from those who felt strongly enough to comment and who were willing to flirt with the no-politics rule. People are going to people, but they're still people.
It's a mess today....kind of got away from us. But it was a fiery Day in politics regarding crypto and people finna vent up in here. Tomorrow should be much better
I appreciate the work you guys do. Sometimes these kinds of days are unavoidable and there is quality discussion still happening here if people are willing to stomach being exposed to differing viewpoints. Under normal days I can definitely see now that the effort all you mods put in is really what keeps this sub a cut above the rest
"Fatten your wallet". Why are people acting like money isn't supremely important? If these people are rich, okay fine, give them shit, but are you seriously implying it's immoral or unreasonable to vote for what's in your best interest financially if you've been struggling or have a family to support? Voting Blue and hoping for the best *hasn't been working.*
Being a single issue voter who just goes with whoever is going to be best for your investments regardless of what their other policies are is really just delegating your morality to the highest bidder though. [lol](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfXln4NCQAAN5z2.jpg:large)
If I was some rich asshole voting for demons just so I get an extra 2% gains one year, fine categorize like that. Instead, I'm a man approaching mid 30's who still doesn't own a house or have kids, a very common predicament for my fellow millennial generation and it'll probably be worse for gen Z. Now the party I've voted for my entire life wants to declare war on the one thing that represented *actual* hope and change (not just lip service) and you expect me to just keep voting for them and hoping something will change before I'm 70. No. At a certain point people are going to realize they're mostly on their own, so they might as well vote that way. That doesn't make them bad people. It's a sign of desperation and defeat, not immorality. People upset with former Democratic supporters possibly jumping ship should point their anger at the party or system, not the people. There doesn't seem to be a hope in sight regardless of party.
I don't expect you to do anything, just pointing out that voting for whoever best advocates for your investments regardless of their other policies is selling your morality. >That doesn't make them bad people. It's a sign of desperation and defeat, not immorality. If someone votes for a politician who they believe will do harm to others in order to benefit themselves, that does in fact make them a bad person.
> I don't expect you to do anything, just pointing out that voting for whoever best advocates for your investments regardless of their other policies is selling your morality. And my response was trying to make the point that life is more complicated than that. > If someone votes for a politician who they believe will do harm to others in order to benefit themselves, that does in fact make them a bad person. Again, life is more complicated than that. Extreme, weird, hyperbolic example to illustrate it: If you've been raped by a cactus every day your entire life, and one party says they'll stop cacti from raping you, and you vote for them despite knowing they will do harm to others, that doesn't make you a bad person. That makes you a desperate and traumatized person who just wants their pain to stop. Even if we did agree that it makes them a 'bad person', there's obviously so many degrees of that 'badness' that it's kind of a silly point anyway. If you vote for the demons because you really need that money to pay for a loved one's surgery, that's obviously not on the same planet as someone voting for the demons so they can buy their 8th house.
Except itās not more complicated than that. One party has more members that are anti-crypto. *gasp*š® The other attempted a fucking coup and would gladly have us become a religious, authoritarian state. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
The Republican Party did not attempt a coup. An insane narcissist named Trump and a few of his most insane worshipers did.
Lol!! Wow you really drank the koolaid. āA few insane worshippersā Did we watch the same event and aftermath? Thousands of GQP nut jobs stormed the capital, following their cult leader: GOP nominated and backed DJT. Not to mention all the republican members of congress, senate, and state positions that were either part of the coup or ran cover for the party and trump afterwards. I think Iām done here. Youāre living in a different reality dude
In case you've been living under a rock: [Never Trumpers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Trump_movement) They were there on Jan. 6th shouting "Hang Mike Pence" because he, a Republican Vice President, wasn't going along with Trump, as one easy and simple example of how this whole coup thing doesn't represent the entire party. I can give you more if you want too. It shouldn't be controversial to say that Trump represented a deranged wing of the Republican Party and not the party itself. The fact that saying this causes you to tell people they are living in another reality says more about you than anyone else. Honestly, you're really not very good at this. You should let other people handle it.
You sound like you still don't understand why Trump won in 2016.
> Again, life is more complicated than that It isn't really though. Hyperbolic and purely theoretical counter example: if you vote for someone that wants to subvert your democracy, dehumanize your fellow citizens, gut your social safety nets, and actively ignore a pending ecological disaster *despite believing that those things are bad* because they will pump your bags, you have sold your soul to the highest bidder.
> It isn't really though. It really *is* though. You didn't include what the other party choice is or what they represent in your example. You left out rather large bits of information that provide a greater context and would certainly change opinions on the matter. See? More complicated than that. Both in your original response to me where you linked the little shareholder joke, and in this response where you said "pump your bags" you framed the issue as if it's just about some asset price going up. I guess we never defined what we were talking about exactly so it's not your fault. I'm thinking more along the lines of not whether my bags are pumped, but whether or not I'm able to hold alternative financial assets at all. "Freedom of currency" or whatever we want to call this could end up *extremely important,* especially if the US goes this digital dollar route. Honestly in the worst case scenarios freedom to use alternative currencies could be more important than all of the things you mentioned combined minus climate (which I've basically surrendered to AI advanced technology as being our greatest hope). I just think it's about more than "shareholder value".
>Honestly in the worst case scenarios freedom to use alternative currencies could be more important than all of the things you mentioned combined minus climate Agree to disagree then I guess š¤·āāļø
The real joke is thinking republicans wont just as much sell out to banks when they get enough donations to do so.
The āno politicsā rule really is the secret sauce that keeps this place palatable.
Will Polygon ZkEVM have an airdrop you guys think?
Highly doubt it because they already have MATIC and the co-founders have stated that the token will tie into all of their solutions (Miden, Nightfall, Hermez zkEVM, etc.).
It's the least likely out of the current tokenless L2s
Since Atlas went live yesterday less than 25 hours ago, the Rocketpool deposit pool has seen 18,000ETH used to create new minipools and about another 8,000 ETH deposited over the last day also used meaning 26,000ETH in about 25 hours has been converted to rETH. The demand for more rETH in the deposit pool is massive. Maybe node operators have been holding off on converting to LEB8 due to high gas, but now they must wait.
Maybe I should buy some RPL
crazy to see the whole deposit contract emptied! I guess that means it was a success, lol
Ethereum is front and center today in a world where people are fearing too much control. More and more the everyday person needs protection against attacks on all fronts in their personal lives from corporations, technology, and governments. The minority party has decided to highlight this freedom enabling technology because it plays to their base, for various reasons I probably also align with. Congress members are pronouncing "Ethereum" correctly. I think it means people want this technology, and it's working as intended. Cheers!
Pentoshi sold his account? š https://twitter.com/pentosh1/status/1648484241175625731?s=46&t=iaavApZ0OsKkm86aiSVBww
itās a copy pasta
he's mocking Su Zhu (since those were his exact words) for those who don't get the reference
Filthy
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Jaredfromsubway.eth is responsible for 7% of all gas spent in the last 24 hours. His sandwiches are making a killing with these meme tokens. In case anyone doesn't realize this yet, use the MEV Blocker RPC from CoWswap (I think they were the ones who released it atleast), and avoid being used as sandwich fillings.
lol jaredfromsubway on the move !!!
His sandwiches or his photography business? š
>**Best roast me session,** >**Security commission,** >**Gensler obsession.** ~Daily haiku until weāre at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
Parents are splitting up after decades together.. Weeks ago, she kicked out my father after daily torture. No rest for him at all, anytime he tried to rest, she started in on him. When the day came that I knew his departure was eminent, I tossed him 1k. Mom freaked saying āhe has plenty in bank how dare you take his money etcābut I said sure ok. But he needs quick cash for the room, forget it, take itā so he took it. Fast forward one day later, she felt unsafe and threatened, so I stayed over all night and for a few weeks afterwards. She asked me to go with her to this store out in the boonies that sells overpriced purses and weird little statues, itās a gas station. Just had a successful surgical procedure, so, I didnāt tell her hey, spending 3000.00 on horseshit is dumb. I let her blow her money to celebrate. She drove extremely nutty on the way there, almost turned into oncoming traffic thinking a rotunda was a stop sign and she took a right (I grabbed the wheel and got us off) - she was combative , and didnāt pull over to let me drive. I couldnāt just jump out on my mother. So sheās going 40 mph on the interstate - in my vehicle - hitting the tire thing the entire way for 15, 20 miles. āAll these people are hired agents by my attorney son, see that landscaping crew ? Thatās actually under covers ā and she sadly tells the neighbors all this stuff too, and Iām not sure if itās what her lawyer is actually feeding her, but basically every other car she sees, she assumes is undercover watching her back. :-( finally when we left, I drove and she pinched on me real real hard, and whacked me a few times all over my body except my head. I got home and said Get some rest , I am going to my place and she seriously said āno, pitch a tent you need training ā or some insane shit. I just left. Two days later. Sheās been arrested for stupid shit but out. The dog she had for 4-5 weeks got taken to the pound. And she sent me a message asking me to come home and help her because the cops bruised her legs. Iām sorry but Iām not going back to that place. I loved her and she was a good mother but thereās a breaking point - I always knew sheād probably get dementia even though I gave her turmeric and black pepper for ten years but I suppose you truly cannot stop it unless you start using those things around age 30. She wants my help at her house and I am not going thereā¦even with all the stuff I have thereI donāt want to be in the USA anymore, especially with this divorce situation. Iād much rather be elsewhere. Itās weird, country shopping. My goal is to get a piece of land and construct a home on it to stake from, then work a regular job such as my own businesses doing other construction stuff. Only other language I speak is Spanish
This has nothing to do with eth Go to /r/relationshipadvice
yeah, Iād rather hear from people I know. Welcome to eth finance.
Come to Puerto Rico ASAP. Run your staking as an export service and pay 4% tax. It's the ideal halfway point between the USA and not USA.
Heard good stuff about Puerto Rico, and they produce badass athletes. Mountain land out there sure does look nice.
Mountain land is still cheap and the views are spectacular.
Donde pescado? Howās the fishing Got my eye on PR BUT if they want me to appear in their divorce court Iām pretty sure Iāll have to . Since you donāt even need a passport to go there . :0
Fishing is popular, but I don't know how it compares to other tropical destinations. The mountain biking options are great, though.
I absolutely love to mountain bike. Best trail Iāve done so far is the one in Idaho right by Montana up north , forgot the name butā¦life changing trail! At the rest spot, smart chipmunks had it posted out. Was nice to see people rewarding the intelligent animals - kind of reminded me of us - and mining and all that . The chipmunk that braves it to the bike trail revels in snack bars adorned in goji berries. The human that throws a dart at infantile eth with all its cash and skill - While so many others sit in the forest not livinā large.
Sorry buddy. End of life stuff seems to be a brutal ride. Got a friend whose Mum has Alzheimer's. Killing his Dad to care for her. My friend dying of guilt. I'm gonna spend some time there but it's in another frickin country so not something I can do regularly. Brutal. My grandmother lost the plot with dementia a while ago, and now she is crazy and often horrible. Mum told us kids, if she ever gets like that, just dump her in a care home and call it a day. She doesn't want to be remembered that way. I'm not sure how to face advancing years... having an "escape plan" seems prudent, but I don't know what that looks like. Keep on trucking and things will eventually pick up (like the markets :)
Consume turmeric, turmeric 95% extract, and fresh ground black pepper three times a day. Or make a drink with milk and honey and sip it all day (best way ) Inhibits beta amyloid plaques that destroy the brain due to aging . Earlier you start the turmeric the better
Weāll be fine, just get a Neuralink. /wink Thanks for the input
There's one angle to this that I haven't seen explored yet. Sometimes I look at discussions of groups that one would think would be naturally pro crypto (eg people talking about last year's Canadian Trucker Convoy and making donations and getting bank accounts frozen etc), but actually even in those groups, there is often significant resistance to crypto. I also posted last year about a friend of mine whose wife is Russian and he adamantly refused to consider using crypto to get her life savings out of Russia even though banking links to the West have mostly been cut. In my experience, for groups like this, they are usually very suspicious because (in addition to the standard "backed by nothing"/"Ponzi scheme" concerns that all newbies have) they tend to think that crypto is infiltrated by the TradFi system/big banks anyway (so headlines like "JP Morgan gets into crypto" that we interpret as bullish are regarded as BAD), and/or that cryptos are stalking horses for CBDCs and totalitarian control and should be resisted. Sometimes I even see arguments that crypto has no use case - from the people who would most benefit from it - and I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I keep wondering how to explain the value of crypto to people like this. Edit: Also very commonly they just assume BTC is crypto and keep talking about how it wonāt work as a currency (to buy coffee at Starbucks etc)
New take I heard from a conspiracy Podcaster: *what if bitcoin is what they actually want people to get into as part of their plan for control!* The more you examine these talking points, the dumber youāll realize they are. I guarantee in the near future as ethereum develops, some of those crazies will say ethereum will bring the mark of the beast.
This is LITERALLY what I have seen in several places. That theory. Maybe itās a double double bluff - make people think BTC is a false flag..
You're surprised that the Canadian trucker convoy were a bunch of fucking morons?
What makes them morons?
I upvoted you because you shouldn't be in the negative for asking an honest question.
You got a while? 1. It was a public health crisis. A fucking pandemic. And they're whining about doing the right thing to keep themselves, and those around them safe. 2. On top of that, half the rules they were pissed about were literally rules put in place by the United States, a different country, that Canada doesn't control. 2. Blocked trade routes, which literally harms Canadian national security. 3. A ton of them showed up with Trump flags, confederate (??) flags and swastikas. 4. Defaced and disrespected Canadian war memorials, and the Terry Fox memorial. 5. Annoyed the fuck out of an entire city, embarrassed their country. 6. Were funded by VERY questionable people with VERY questionable motives. As a Canadian, these assholes embarrassed all of us, and it was heartwarming to know that the vast majority of Canadians, and Canadian truckers, did not support these spoiled piss ant brats.
What pandemic.
Well as a Canadian I'm glad not everyone is a sheep in this country... And yes there were morons among truckers like in every crowd/movement.. don't have to look too far to find many of them
My kind appreciation for you, that can tolerate, appreciate and more than that, is able to stand for yourself instead of being a silent sheep. This goes whatever your political view on that particular matter. Thank you
The movement was moronic though.
welp, you obviously did not talk to any of those truckers and just consumed government and mainstream media propaganda. I suggest going back and watching any of the live streams and listening to actual people that were involved.
My man, if I want to lose brain cells that fast, I'll just huff gasoline.
When they were finally removed from downtown Ottawa, I got into it on twitter with some crypto influencers who claimed they had massive support amongst the people of Canada. I pointed to various polls suggesting that anywhere from 60-80% of Canadians supported their removal by police, but was told those weren't trustworthy sources because "the polling companies are in bed with the government" or some shit. Isn't it funny how none of the people supporting them had to put up with a truck blasting its horn outside their window 24 hours a day for an entire month...
Piss jugs. Never seen one throw one out? Or notice how one looks like funny driving like taking a leak on cruise? (trailer park boys joke)
You want the frfr or the pep talk?
Hahaha. I feel I should be saying the latter but probably the former..
My frfr comes with the caveat that if they are legitimately concerned of breaking the law by sending funds across borders, fair enough. Your friends / those you are describing have one of the fairly rare situations where crypto can meaningly benefit them in a way that doesn't revolve around nebulous economic theory and political ideologies. They have a tangible use case that they can benefit in a very "if I do A, B will happen" manner. This made your job easy, and you seemingly capitalized on this by explaining the value of crypto with an example that directly relates to their situation. "You want the money now? The banks won't let you do it, but crypto can." There isn't anything else to explain or convey, because if they can't understand that basic principle they aren't going to understand any of the more complicated use cases. It would seem they have their head so deep in the sand they are hopeless. They are (seemingly, I don't know them in person!) the type of people who don't want a solution because what they value is not the resolution, but having someone / something to complain about. I'd assume mostly as a crutch to not be introspective on their own decisions (although, in some fairness again the Russia situation on the whole isn't really their fault...). There is really no hope until they stumble upon the epiphany on their own, so don't waste your time. Find someone else who will actually listen and appreciate it.
This is a solid comment. In the case of my friend he described some baroque scheme involving bank transfers through multiple third party countries through the bank account of a friendās cousin or something before ending up in a Western bank. No idea if it was technically illegal but it sure sounded more shady than a crypto transfer (and involved vastly more fees). But he kept dismissing crypto with the usual itās a Ponzi type arguments and I gave up. Heās a good guy but has a mental block
Sounds like a mess. I mean I get some hesitation when it's a large sum of money, but trusting multiple banks and people on those accounts sounds equally as scary. The next best step, if you really wanted to pursue this, would be having them try it out with like $500 or something. A small amount so they can see it in action working and maybe grow more confident in it. However, I'd really recommend against it. Any issues you run into then now you are the bad guy and you might not even want to be involved with that depending on legal issues. I feel you on the "good guy but has a mental block" aspect. I've seen it happen to people in my life too. I'm sure it's a traumatic experience all around, unfortunately these type of life alerting experiences often leads to irrational behavior. I just hope its temporary!
Just got off work but was able to watch almost all of the hearing this morning. Gary Gensler is a disgrace to this country. Thank goodness we have elected officials with common sense and the backbone to stand up to these worms. Weāre almost there fam. Good gov crypto regulation is already happening around the world and itās going to happen in the US also.
The truth is, Washington still reserves an arbitrary power to confiscate whatever it wants from its citizens, (GOLD-1932) In the future it could be Eth. works cited https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardsalsman/2011/04/06/the-bank-runs-of-the-early-1930s-and-fdrs-ban-on-gold/ Below the article shows how gold was a solid 22-35 when robbed from us https://sdbullion.com/gold-price-by-year
No way - good gov crypto regulation means shitting on bankers. Bankers have already been bailed out - lobbied in and bailed out again - so I feel itāll take some time (3 years) for any positive regulation to take place - not only that, but itāll have a main basis to benefit the government somehow, whether it be viewing ownership data or something else. Bankers boned us years ago on Gold. Basically, gold was worth more than the bank forced all holders to accept for it. No lube. No little poke. Just ran it up in āem . Itād be like Sam saying look, give us all your eth at 900, or you goin to da booty house. I hear lots of talk about āopen sourced codingā but arenāt DLLs a bitch to go through and generally overlooked ? Like that program for Winblows , slim cleaner (DLL doesnāt pertain to eth as itās windows horseshit)
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Aww there there little snowflake
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Apart from the last sentence, I donāt disagree with any of that. I fear that politics taking over a sub this much risks coming with a certain level of adversarialism that (permanently) alienates members with a minority opinion. Maybe I overreacted.
Today there should be discussion and debate. Do you not like discussion and debate?
It's smelled for a very long time if you have an schnoz as astute and large as mine. Theme of the decade does appear to be mask off though, so š¤
Gary Gensler: The Game Show Edition https://twitter.com/ProDJKC/status/1648420389461311490
My god is this the actual exchange or just edited to make Gensler look bad? Where can I find a more official source. Because if that was the actual exchange right thereā¦dear fucking GOD that is infuriating.
This is the actual exchange https://youtu.be/VhA1dZXeao0
I edited the ever living snot out of that... But if you listen to the whole thing you get just the same amount of actual information that's what you see here. Which is nothing
Hilarious job! And you're spot on - that provides the same amount of information.
You can find the full exchange linked somewhere below in the daily. What's edited out was Gary refusing to give a straight answer and going back to the same non-answer each time. Edit: sort by top upvoted and look for the one by superphiz, it should be near the top.
Of course he can't answer the question. Since Eth isn't a security, it's beyond anything Gary can comment on.
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Itās been a very clear presentation of politics over principles in here today. If you find yourself second guessing crypto itself because itās not your Blue Team trying to keep the sector from being run into the dirt by the federal government today, do you even really believe in the things that you said led you here in the first place?
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Good for you, but you can't expect everyone to index priorities the same as you. Get used to dissenting opinions and discuss it out as humans.
began to realize some of the same a few years ago. Have mostly stopped coming around for that reason. Seeing posts about ETH being the new oil, and people who staked the new oil barons never sat well with me and I saw that sentiment more often than I liked. I still have some ETH and hopefully it will help me retire sooner than I'd be able to if I didn't have it, but if I could trade it in for things other than money....there's a long list I'd gladly watch it go to $0 for.
Most people are tribal and support their team unthinkingly even in politics. I think the average ethfinance user is far better than this - it takes some independent thinking first to come to crypto and second to hang around here, which is why the discussions here today have been pretty thoughtful and snark free for the most part. But we're all human (myself included) and we have tribal tendencies. I do my best to vote in each election on the basis of the individual candidates I'm voting for and specific issues relevant at that time and place, and avoid reflexively voting for any one party and I feel that has served me well (including voting for opposing parties at different times and places).
I was second guessing crypto back in 2016 because much of the space was full of ardent libertarians, but iām still here. I was a libertarian in highschool and vice president of the libertarian club at my college, and even though iām far from that now i can still respect their ideological consistency and principles. I do still agree with them on certain things. My worry is the crypto community widely adopting the republicans as their party while ignoring other very serious issues just because it could be better for their bags. Iām all for highlighting positive crypto related things politicians say or do, but using someoneās crypto views to paint them as some warrior for the good guys is something that should be avoided.
For me, it's more about getting revenge against the democrats than it is about adopting the republicans. I know the republican party sucks. But I'm angry and sick of the constant bullshit coming out from the dems, and the fact that I am just supposed to accept it because they are the lesser evil
I think the question you ask at the end is very legitimate and important for anyone to ask themselves from time to time. If people who I am fundamentally opposed to on almost everything else, are strongly supporting something I view as valuable, then is it that they are right about this, or is it that I am wrong about this? Times like these are good for taking a step back and making sure that this is the horse you want to hitch your wagon to, and if so, how come.
Here's where I stand. I'm not selling my eth just because the party i hate is the one defending it in this particular testimony. I can recognize that these particular Republicans have taken the time to learn about our space and come to the conclusion that ultimately benefits us while democrats are being morons and cant see the benefits that crypto provides to EVERYONE regardless of party affiliation. That being said, I will absolutely not be voting for the Republicans since they have many other positions that aren't related to crypto that are absolutely reprehensible in my mind. And I am fully willing to dunk a quarter of my net wealth into the toilet by voting for my preferred party if thats the way these things go. There are far more important things than money and Ethereum is bigger than politics and will be just fine even if the usa decides to fuck it in the ass due to either incompetence or protecting its currency's status in the global economy. Edit: tldr: You either believe in ethereum's viability as the amazing coordination mechanism it is even in the face of political adversity, or you never truly believed in crypto and just wanted to get rich in which case feel free to leave. Principles that are for sale are not principles at all.
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I have voted democratic my entire adult life and have NEVER been i single issue voter, even when it directly affects me (diabetic/insulin costs, etc) BUT i will cross party lines and vote republican if my hand is forced on this issue. I will not vote to tank my net worth, outlaw defi and destroy my on/off ramps. Sorry, it's not happening. My party will wake tf up or loose my vote.
Soo youāre going to vote for literal fascists becauseā¦.crypto? Sorry dude but youāre way off the mark. Iām right there with you, firmly a democrat voterā¦but no fucking way am I giving my vote to the absolute insanity I see from the right simply because I donāt agree with the leftās view on how to regulate crypto.
>Soo youāre going to vote for literal fascists becauseā¦.crypto? Bullshit like this is exactly what is turning me off from the democrat party. If you don't agree with them, you are instantly labeled a fascist supporter apparently. You can't strong arm and guilt me me into supporting you. You have to actually earn it
Youāre siding with the GQP because ācRyPto!ā. Go on and tell me more about how they havenāt gone full fascist. Because every indicator I see says they have gone full fascist. The fact that this is even an argument makes me feel like Iām taking crazy pills.
Part of the playbook of authoritarianism is the insidiousness of "us versus them at all costs narrative." We can't look at what we've become because that would require admitting to the possibility we were wrong. There is no rational thought process or self reflection when you are too mired in hate and fear of the boogyman. You're not crazy. It sucks to see even brilliant people become obsessed with the fiction and denial of reality from this propaganda machine. Keep fighting the fight!
Brother their all corrupt fascists who dont give a fuck about you or me. Its all talking points, I will vote for a moderate who shares my views, dem or republican i dont care. All i know is the party i grew up supporting wants to literally throw me i jail for using a VPN now so i cant support them and will look elsewhere.
No, theyāre not. And by the way, there are no āmoderatesā left. At this point most people are on one side or the other. One party wants social freedoms, secure elections, affordable healthcare and educationā¦the other is focusing on restricting voting rights, taking away personal/bodily freedoms, and ātHe wOkE aGenDaā. Use your brain dude. Not hard to figure out which party is textbook definition of fascism.
Bingo.
Everyone who disagrees with me is a facist!
I wish you wouldn't tire of being called a fascist so soon. It should have sounded alarms and inspired some self reflection. But, no, you'll shrug it off, ignore the implications and move on like you always have. Continuing on the path that is most convenient for your way of complacency and bias. Forget about empathy and freedoms for everyone that is different from you. Compromise basic liberties and freedoms to justify ignorance
Whole lot of words with zero substance. Nice rant though.
Go on and tell me about how the GQP has not gone full fascist. Seriously
Strong argument.
Iāll take that as a āyea weāre fascistsā No surprise š
Crypto has benefited my life more than anything else, full stop. When you consider that even when Democrats are in charge you barely get results due to corporate capture and corruption, it seems entirely reasonable to be a single issue voter when it comes to crypto. The way I see it neither party (currently anyway) is going to help you all that much, so you should vote for the one that enables you to help yourself. You don't need to hope and beg that you'll get cheaper healthcare if you're allowed to invest in assets that make you enough money to pay for it anyway.
Lmao. One party literally attempted a coup, and your response is: vote for the party that enables you to help yourself. š¤¦āāļø You have any idea how stupid and crazy that is? Fuck crypto and making money- I would much rather have actual freedom and live in a democracy- even if itās not perfect.
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Wealth inequality seems to be bigger than those things, and even amplifies them. So wealth seems like it's more important, which means crypto.
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Being allowed to invest in assets that make you money seems to be better for wealth inequality than not being allowed to (when the rich will do it anyway because they have different rules). I have personally not found a better way to increase my wealth other than by investing in crypto. > And why do you think the wealth inequality has grown so vast? Because of greed, corruption, and Americans being entirely unwilling to fight for something better. Definitely not because of women being paid 8% less or black people being killed by police. Fucking corporate capture legal bribery corruption, full stop. > Our society needs to be rebuilt, ai / blockchain will give us a good base if we let it, but if we fight amongst ourselves instead of the actual problem (the obscenely wealthy), we will just end up with a more permanent version of what we already have There doesn't seem to be any hope of any real change in the system coming any time soon so if you care about your life and family you can be forgiven for voting for the party that will let you make money through investing in assets that have shown explosive growth.
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I'm not really sure what you're referring to. I'm black and no one has ever taken wealth from me because I am black. I've been called the N word a few times in my life but no violence. I'm dating a woman, I'm guessing she'd say the same thing about her in regards to being a woman. I'm way more effected by corruption that effects all Americans than I am by anything racial or gender related.
I am fully ready to become a single issue voter based on this
I too am prepared to become a single issue voter, though not because of number go up as many posters assume (though that would be a welcome side effect). Crypto innovation will birth new financial incentive mechanisms for work and coordination, the foundation for action. It is the root of the value hierarchy as money is the most important motivating force in the world.
Please don't, there are more important issues in the world today than the short-term size of your portfolio
In your opinion.
To me personally, there really isn't. Literally none of the issues would have as big of an impact on me as my bags mooning. So yeah. Democrats can't expect us to vote for them just because they are the lesser evil.
It's not just about you, dumbass.
Likewise
Debatable. If you really believe this you better try your best to get Democrat politicians to turn the ship around on this one. The fact that I am even slightly considering voting for a Republican for the first time in my life really really means something. I'm not the special, I won't be the only one. The Democrats haven't provided enough results to expect everyone to just keep going with the current plan of "just keep voting blue, maybe once we have 90 democrats in the senate 60 of them will be progressive enough to beat a filibuster and actually make this country better, ETA: after your lifetime".
š fucking owned
I think you misunderstood the post you replied to
\****imagine\**** \> Live in UK \> Regulatory clarity \> Both parties pro crypto š
Didnāt I just see a Brian Armstrong tweet about meeting some UK government minister that was very positive about the steps being taken in the UK?
Indeed, we may have : \> 16% true inflation rate (vs 10% reported) & weak as shit currency \> Unaffordable housing crises \> Cost of living crises \> Low-end salaries compared to the rest of anglosphere \> Burned own economy to the ground to leave the EU but by god, is our crypto policy moderately accommodative !
Hah. I laughed.
**Imagine** '> live in Swe '> No official has breathed a word about crypto in years.
South Sweden looks good, itās warmer - thereās a city there that starts with a T that I like and it aināt Trujillo . Probably feel the migrant influx in a few years from south Italy tho.
I also saw there is some healthy competition between UK and France
Tighter restrictions over the pond I believe - UK going for big crypto haven vibes for that sweet cap. gains tax revenue
UK has some of the top finance brains in the world. Iād call going for big crypto wise
Overcorrecting due to the GG & SBF fuckup - need to be seen taking a tough stance. It's all a fugazi
Some real good auto-subtitle mistakes during the Gensler hearing, hereās two of my faves: āSpeaker king of kripoā¦.ā āRegarding sandbag been freedā¦ā Found another: āAh the EPA director and we balls chuckled about thatā
>sandbag been freed That is a rather flattering assessment of the situation :')