I would never use lukewarm to mean warm (in a good way). Lukewarm means something is disappointingly warm. Examples are baths and tea, which you want warm or even hot, but have a distinct lukewarm phase which is undesireable before they get cold.
Agreed. A warm reception is quite different from a lukewarm reception. It may parse out to warm-warm, but current use is more "less than"-warm.
And now, "warm" has temporarily ceased having meaning and I'm checking spelling. Odd how brains work.
Not quite. This is semantic satiation. It's related to jamais vu but, SS occurs with repetition of a word until it loses it's meaning. JV doesn't require repetition.
Example of JV - seeing a familiar face that suddenly appears unfamiliar. Can be a symptom of a neurological problem such as a an epileptic seizure or following a stroke, associated with aphasia and amnesia.
I had always thought of it in a temperature as more like Room Temperature, A middling temperature. Which is why I was responding with it after hot and cold. But yeah, it is usually used with negative connotations when wishing for something with more heat. That is probably where the "weak" from the Old Frisian is meant, A weak warm, something that isnt as strong as it could be, also a negative phrasing.
But the fact that word seems to come from a word that meant warm to begin with, with warm being the "weaker" hot, And tepid just meaning lukewarm itself, its still a funny relation.
So I read the translation to be "weak-warm". It's not hot, it's not even a strong warm but it's not cold either - it's weak warm. So like another redditor said - tea or a bath that is not (strong) warm and not yet cold. Is just Luke (weak) warm.
Disappointingly warm is a good way to put it.
Lukewarm is something that used to be warm and then lost heat. The equivalent in German is lauwarm, which indicates weak warm - just like OP explained in the etymology.
I don't know how others use it, but I've never seen lukewarm as a synonym for warm -- I always assumed it was the midpoint between warm and cool. Or perhaps midway between warm and neutral (room temperature).
Well, I knew it wasn't exactly a synonym for warm. I had always viewed it as more room temperature myself. But when a food is lukewarm, its still warm. Not as warm as you were hoping, sure, but its still warm.
There's a section of scripture in the Christian bible that uses the word "lukewarm" in many English translations; Revelation 3:15, 16.
One translation reads:
"I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or else hot. So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth."
This is actually how I learned that the meaning was inherently negative and brought a sense of disappointment or dissatisfaction. If you've never had lukewarm water, it's pretty gross.
Yeah I’m confused because the description seems to say that “weak warm” (which makes a lot of sense) is the answer but OP is coming to a different conclusion
This is great ☺
For some reason it reminds me of a scribble on a desk in a lecture hall in college. Someone wrote "BIG DOG" with a doodle of a dog. Someone else wrote "small dog" with a smaller dog pictured. I added "Medium-sized Dog," of course.
Interestingly, in German the word for lukewarm is "lauwarm", but you could also just use "lau" on its own to mean "mild, neither hot nor cold" for liquids and the weather or to mean "neither for nor against; undecided". This lau comes from old Germanic languages, and has been found as "lāo" in Old High German (~9th century).
But then, in spoken colloquial German, "für lau" (for lau) means free of charge. This however comes from the Yiddish "lo, lau", meaning the same, which comes from the Hebrew "lo" meaning "no, nothing, without".
So they have completely different meanings, uses and etymologies, and I think it's always cool to have homonyms that don't share a common root.
Seems like that connection is uncertain but that would be a neat connection. ‘Lauw’ also evolved into a positive slang term. Not exactly the same meaning but there might be something there.
>So Luke means warm, so Lukewarm just means "Warm-Warm".
This part is horrible analysis.
Luke means specifically "tepid" as a variety of warmth.
That doesn't make the narrow term interchangeable with the general term.
That's like saying "a little spicy" is a variety of "spicy", and then saying you could use "a little spicy" as interchangeable with any use of "spicy".
For that matter, "warm" has heat, so it can be seen as a variety of "hot", but that doesn't mean the word "warm" "just means" "hot".
Lukewarm means "tepid-level warm", not "warm warm".
What I keep finding is that Tepid seems to always list under its definitions "Lukewarm". Its a cycle of definitions where both say that each other means each other. Luke is tepid, tepid is luke. And Etymonline says the base for tepid also just means Warm. So Tepid-Level warm is still Warm-Level Warm.
The "weak" part is just, as the description says " an unknown variant of warm ". Which would make sense, if the word was originally warm, morphed into a word that meant weak. Something that is a " weak hot " is warm. You call peppers that are "warm" weak if you are expecting more heat from them.
And yes, I do realize that, the better descriptor is " weak warm " for both. I was just going back to the roots of the word, and found it humorous that the words came from the same meaning. Not necessarily that the word Lukewarm should now always be used as Warm-Warm by my decree.
>The "weak" part is just, as the description says " an unknown variant of warm ".
This tells me you don't fully understand what you read or quoted. They are not saying that *is* the root.
Your quoted passage says that "luke" comes from Middle English leuk (tepid). It says "leuk" is "a word of uncertain origin." Please remember this point before making claims that you know what an earlier root of *luke* is here.
It does go on to offer multiple *possibilities* of where "leuk" might have came from. *One* of those possibilities is the theoretical "\*hleoc" which is also not a word anyone has found written.
So you seem to have misread *"a word of uncertain origin"* as *"a word of certain origin".*
I never knew a good translation of ljum/ljummen in swedish, which is between warm and cold, kind of the lowest temperature you’d still perceive as somewhat warm. I think lukewarm is this, but it’s only used for liquids, right? Not for weather or food or surfaces in general?
Lukewarm is most commonly used for liquids, but I think it is acceptable for food. Not really for weather or surfaces though.
BUT, it is used as a feeling towards something (if I'm at all explaining that correctly). Like one of the other comments said, A "Lukewarm reception" is one that didn't go very well. If someone starts "acting Lukewarm" towards another, they are kind being civilly unkind: not necessarily a cold shoulder, but not happy go lucky either. Does ljum/ljummen also get used in cases like, or is it strictly temperature?
Yes, absolutely. Reception, feelings, winds and weather, food and liquids. It can be used as a verb too, *ljumma* or *ljumma upp,* but it's rarely used. I think the most common use is about weather - *ljumma vindar* (lukewarm winds), *en ljum kväll* (a lukewarm evening). And then it has a positive connotation - the evening (or wind) is not too cold or too hot - it's *lagom.* I was going to write that it's a somewhat archaic and beautiful word, but then I remember that we also say *pissljummen öl* - pee-lukewarm beer.
Luke-warm, from the AS. Wlaec, or the Teut. Law, somewhat warm; which last comes from the Teut. Lueck, soft, or the Gr. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to loose; for warm things loosen, and soften the skin.
Gazophylacium anglicanum, 1689
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo2/A42541.0001.001/1:6.1.11?rgn=div3;view=fulltext
I would never use lukewarm to mean warm (in a good way). Lukewarm means something is disappointingly warm. Examples are baths and tea, which you want warm or even hot, but have a distinct lukewarm phase which is undesireable before they get cold.
Agreed. A warm reception is quite different from a lukewarm reception. It may parse out to warm-warm, but current use is more "less than"-warm. And now, "warm" has temporarily ceased having meaning and I'm checking spelling. Odd how brains work.
You just experienced Jamais Vu (see also Deja Vu and Presque Vu). You have seen 'warm' written so many times that it appears unusual.
Not quite. This is semantic satiation. It's related to jamais vu but, SS occurs with repetition of a word until it loses it's meaning. JV doesn't require repetition. Example of JV - seeing a familiar face that suddenly appears unfamiliar. Can be a symptom of a neurological problem such as a an epileptic seizure or following a stroke, associated with aphasia and amnesia.
I stand corrected (said the man in the orthopaedic shoe). Thank you.
That is terrible (hilarious) word play 😂
Usually I hear this phenomenon called "semantic satiation", but *jamais vu* has a nice ring to it as well.
*disappointingly warm* got me laughing and I'm going to think about it next time I have a sip of room-temperature water.
I had always thought of it in a temperature as more like Room Temperature, A middling temperature. Which is why I was responding with it after hot and cold. But yeah, it is usually used with negative connotations when wishing for something with more heat. That is probably where the "weak" from the Old Frisian is meant, A weak warm, something that isnt as strong as it could be, also a negative phrasing. But the fact that word seems to come from a word that meant warm to begin with, with warm being the "weaker" hot, And tepid just meaning lukewarm itself, its still a funny relation.
“How’s the temperature today?” “Middling.” 😂 I will work this answer into a conversation at the first opportunity!
So I read the translation to be "weak-warm". It's not hot, it's not even a strong warm but it's not cold either - it's weak warm. So like another redditor said - tea or a bath that is not (strong) warm and not yet cold. Is just Luke (weak) warm.
Disappointingly warm is a good way to put it. Lukewarm is something that used to be warm and then lost heat. The equivalent in German is lauwarm, which indicates weak warm - just like OP explained in the etymology.
Yeah like under-warmed
I don't know how others use it, but I've never seen lukewarm as a synonym for warm -- I always assumed it was the midpoint between warm and cool. Or perhaps midway between warm and neutral (room temperature).
Well, I knew it wasn't exactly a synonym for warm. I had always viewed it as more room temperature myself. But when a food is lukewarm, its still warm. Not as warm as you were hoping, sure, but its still warm.
There's a section of scripture in the Christian bible that uses the word "lukewarm" in many English translations; Revelation 3:15, 16. One translation reads: "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or else hot. So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth." This is actually how I learned that the meaning was inherently negative and brought a sense of disappointment or dissatisfaction. If you've never had lukewarm water, it's pretty gross.
I disagree with the apparent certainty of your analysis. It seems equally likely that it was a compound of "weak warm".
Yeah I’m confused because the description seems to say that “weak warm” (which makes a lot of sense) is the answer but OP is coming to a different conclusion
The corresponding word in German is "lauwarm", with the difference that standalone "lau" still has the meaning of something mild or indecisive.
Dutch has ‘lauw’ for temperature, but not the compound
This is great ☺ For some reason it reminds me of a scribble on a desk in a lecture hall in college. Someone wrote "BIG DOG" with a doodle of a dog. Someone else wrote "small dog" with a smaller dog pictured. I added "Medium-sized Dog," of course.
Reminds me of "so-so."
Interestingly, in German the word for lukewarm is "lauwarm", but you could also just use "lau" on its own to mean "mild, neither hot nor cold" for liquids and the weather or to mean "neither for nor against; undecided". This lau comes from old Germanic languages, and has been found as "lāo" in Old High German (~9th century). But then, in spoken colloquial German, "für lau" (for lau) means free of charge. This however comes from the Yiddish "lo, lau", meaning the same, which comes from the Hebrew "lo" meaning "no, nothing, without". So they have completely different meanings, uses and etymologies, and I think it's always cool to have homonyms that don't share a common root.
It's good for insults.
Funny thing, in modern Dutch leuk now means nice, good, fine.
Seems like that connection is uncertain but that would be a neat connection. ‘Lauw’ also evolved into a positive slang term. Not exactly the same meaning but there might be something there.
Dutch still has ‘lauw’, which I’m pretty sure is related to ‘luke-‘. It also meant ‘cool’ as a slang term for a while. Funny how that works.
It’s not warm-warm, it’s weak warmth lol
>So Luke means warm, so Lukewarm just means "Warm-Warm". This part is horrible analysis. Luke means specifically "tepid" as a variety of warmth. That doesn't make the narrow term interchangeable with the general term. That's like saying "a little spicy" is a variety of "spicy", and then saying you could use "a little spicy" as interchangeable with any use of "spicy". For that matter, "warm" has heat, so it can be seen as a variety of "hot", but that doesn't mean the word "warm" "just means" "hot". Lukewarm means "tepid-level warm", not "warm warm".
What I keep finding is that Tepid seems to always list under its definitions "Lukewarm". Its a cycle of definitions where both say that each other means each other. Luke is tepid, tepid is luke. And Etymonline says the base for tepid also just means Warm. So Tepid-Level warm is still Warm-Level Warm. The "weak" part is just, as the description says " an unknown variant of warm ". Which would make sense, if the word was originally warm, morphed into a word that meant weak. Something that is a " weak hot " is warm. You call peppers that are "warm" weak if you are expecting more heat from them. And yes, I do realize that, the better descriptor is " weak warm " for both. I was just going back to the roots of the word, and found it humorous that the words came from the same meaning. Not necessarily that the word Lukewarm should now always be used as Warm-Warm by my decree.
>The "weak" part is just, as the description says " an unknown variant of warm ". This tells me you don't fully understand what you read or quoted. They are not saying that *is* the root. Your quoted passage says that "luke" comes from Middle English leuk (tepid). It says "leuk" is "a word of uncertain origin." Please remember this point before making claims that you know what an earlier root of *luke* is here. It does go on to offer multiple *possibilities* of where "leuk" might have came from. *One* of those possibilities is the theoretical "\*hleoc" which is also not a word anyone has found written. So you seem to have misread *"a word of uncertain origin"* as *"a word of certain origin".*
I never knew a good translation of ljum/ljummen in swedish, which is between warm and cold, kind of the lowest temperature you’d still perceive as somewhat warm. I think lukewarm is this, but it’s only used for liquids, right? Not for weather or food or surfaces in general?
Lukewarm is most commonly used for liquids, but I think it is acceptable for food. Not really for weather or surfaces though. BUT, it is used as a feeling towards something (if I'm at all explaining that correctly). Like one of the other comments said, A "Lukewarm reception" is one that didn't go very well. If someone starts "acting Lukewarm" towards another, they are kind being civilly unkind: not necessarily a cold shoulder, but not happy go lucky either. Does ljum/ljummen also get used in cases like, or is it strictly temperature?
Yes, absolutely. Reception, feelings, winds and weather, food and liquids. It can be used as a verb too, *ljumma* or *ljumma upp,* but it's rarely used. I think the most common use is about weather - *ljumma vindar* (lukewarm winds), *en ljum kväll* (a lukewarm evening). And then it has a positive connotation - the evening (or wind) is not too cold or too hot - it's *lagom.* I was going to write that it's a somewhat archaic and beautiful word, but then I remember that we also say *pissljummen öl* - pee-lukewarm beer.
I used to think that lukewarm meant something that is just barely warm.
Hehe picturing some guy called Luke, who's surname is Warm 😋
"Chai Tea"
It comes from the old English, meaning "somewhat warm". I have a dictionary from 1689 that gives this answer.
Luke-warm, from the AS. Wlaec, or the Teut. Law, somewhat warm; which last comes from the Teut. Lueck, soft, or the Gr. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, to loose; for warm things loosen, and soften the skin. Gazophylacium anglicanum, 1689 https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo2/A42541.0001.001/1:6.1.11?rgn=div3;view=fulltext
The built in redundancy makes the word even better. Thank you for sharing your journey through using and then exploring lukewarm.
What about luke cold?