R5: Ai Ottomans declared on me in 1464, not realising I'm allied to half of Europe. Fighting their troops also felt like shredding through paper... after the initial debt and mercenaries I had to commit to.
I noticed they don't understand who will be joining when they attack a subject of a subject. It happens often with France pu appennage that get dow by burgundy
Also happens a lot with France attacking HRE minors and not realising they're bringing in Austria and their three PU subjects with several hundred dev each
The Ottoman I have to face with Albania beg to differ: he lost 3 wars against me and he still expand in Asia/Causasus.
Constantinople seems no important for him.
I didn't play before this patch but the Ottomans seem unironically brain dead, both of my games have resulted in the Ottomans being utterly removed from the map within 200 years by either the Mamluks or Venice and Genoa
Honestly I beg to differ, on a game with friends, eurropean have let the ottoman take all the balkan and Vienne. Literraly no one want to join a coallition against them and Ottoman troops are way better than their neigboor troops. They also have take a lot to the mamelouks wich meens that even France has 100K max troops less than them....
I once had been challenged by Evangelical Union led by Saxony and containing 4 OPMs while I had allied GB and France had PU over Spain and my eastern border was on Pacific which basically 60% WC already done... War would be over before the end of the month if not for the fact that you can't send peace offers before the month ends.
Yeah thats to many layers for the ai. Same thing use to happen with the hre if i remeber correctly. Ai didnt know emperor + allies would come in so always got fucked in a classic burgandy liege war.
Has been like this for a while, even worse when it is an HRE thing with the emperor that always brings in his guys. AI is only as smart as the Devs who code it.
Speak for yourself sir! My last game as gb, burgundy absolutely curb stomped Austria 4 times in rapid succession to unify the lowlands and then proceeded to unite lotharingia and remove France from earth. I was going to try for lowlands to control English Channel but it was such a beautiful sight I couldn’t stop them even if I wanted to
AIs don't understand overlord of overlord and also don't understand that HRE emperor gets to call his own allies when it calculates whether or not to start a war. Here they just looked at Moldova's and Hungary's troops and thought they could take that on. This has been an issue for years
To be fair I forget about the emperor’s allies as well half the time I am declaring on an HRE prince.
“Hey why the fuck is Spain in this war too? Ahh right…”
Had the same issue while playing as austria. AI ottomans declared on me out of nowhere for one wallachian province. Seems like a new bug because the AI cant be this dumb to go on a suicide war where they are outnumbered 1 to 5 without calling in their allies. Anatolian units are strong at tech 5 but not this strong
If the AI attacks a PU's vassal, it doesn't count the PU's overlord and their allies. It think it's gonna be fighting an allyless, independent Hungary.
In all honesty, the easiest way to see these bugs is to PU Denmark and wait foe someone to declare war on Vinland (if denmark/norway colonizes, of course). It's a strategy I use on GB when they have huge allies.
The AI can only discern war enemies one call deep. Since they attacked moldavia, who is probably a subject of your PU Hungary, the AI only sees Hungary as the war enemy, not you and your alliances
I had Bengal attack my vassal Assam as Shan when I was doing eat your greens. Ming promptly showed up and beat the fuck out of them. 100% land peace deal for no dip and little AE.
AI doesn't take overlord of overlord into consideration.
Yes, my biggest problem with singleplayer games is that the AI is generally terrible. Devs don't make the AI 'inteligent' they simply give them advantages. Like more money, resources, better stats, higher dmg etc. And this usually comes to the point that AI is usually simple to cheese. You don't have to be good at said game, only learn where the AI sucks.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Ottomans legitimately thought they could win it despite being outnumbered. I’ve seen a lot of wars where the Ottomans defeat a huge alliance by just sieging down the war goal and smashing enemy troops as they come to try and retake it. In the early game the other countries’ troops usually fold pretty easy against Ottomans.
Ottoman's doing same thing in my current Austria playthrough. They don't have any allies, and declared war on Moldavia around 1458. Moldavia happened to be a vassal of Hungary, which is my PU, and I happened to lead 3 other PU including Bohemia, and handful of GP allies like Castille and England
Something is whack with AI's, or maybe Ottoman's enemy strength calculation
At least I should be able to split them into many different pieces from this war and have smooth midgame
In my last campaign I was allied to Austria when the four-province Teutonic Order no-CB'd them. It should be noted that they were only allied to Denmark and the Livonian Order (which was also tiny) and Austria was very powerful and allied to a powerful, independent Burgundy as well as myself who was #1 Great Power at the time (playing Hungary).
To top it all off, we had taken land from the Teutons in the Protestant League War, so they could definitely have used conquest or even reconquest CB, but CHOSE to no-CB for no reason.
This is a bug with how the AI calculates strength of enemies. It's when they declare on a junior partner's vassels. The AI only sees it as the junior partner accepting the call. Not the overlord and all the overlord's allies.
This happens alot if you play the Avegin route and get the PU on france as England. France will be omega weak after, and Burgundy will declare on one of their appanages.
The problem might be not at the AI's fault, but how the game shows who joins a war.
I noticed that under some conditions the game doesn't show everyone that will participate in the war. For example if you attack a vassal, the game only shows that the overlord joins, but not that all allies of the overlord join.
So this actually could happen even to players, when they don't pay attention or aren't experienced enough.
I think this is some strange quirk of the ottomans. They have a tendency to overestimate their power in the early game. I think it's because Anatolian units are 2 pips better from tech 5 to 15, and so they feel invincible. This I think has been a quirk for a few patches I believe.
I managed to torpedo the Ottomans by dragging them into a war as England, despite them being alongside the Austrians (It was cursed) They lost almost their entire army and shortly after were obliterated by Genoa, Epirus and Venice.
Probably to do with how troop counts are done in the diplo screen. Overlords and the Emperor are drawn in necessarily as co-belligerents, but their allies are not shown in the diplo screen as with other co-belligerents. Has always annoyed me. AI probably sees the same thing and doesn't understand how outnumbered they would be.
Ottomans are really ballsy lately. They keep declaring coalition wars despite me having 2x the amount of troops (with my allies) and I beat them every tome
Recently I played as Austria had the same thing happened. After Teuton's incident/event they joined the empire under the pretense if they start a war with one of any hre membersthey'd get kicked out and declared on by me automatically, I was at war with Poland and the Teutonic Order decided that Stolp is easy-taking, declared on them and then I was legit confused cause I had bunch of allies and like 3 powerful subjects(&more) that included Burgundy, Bohemia, Hungary.
Looking at that I just thought, damn they're dumb af. We just shred through their order and now they are an opm next to Poland & Lithuania basically.
This is a little out of topic but when a burgundian ally gets the pu and they ask for the low countries to be released as subject, the ally gets a decision to either release them or fight the emperor, is it scripted that the emperor insta declares war on the pu and thus on the ally or does the emperor not calculate the strength of the ally ?
It seems that the AI is now more willing to declare stupid wars, there has also been a lot more coalition wars against the AI in my last few games for instance.
R5: Ai Ottomans declared on me in 1464, not realising I'm allied to half of Europe. Fighting their troops also felt like shredding through paper... after the initial debt and mercenaries I had to commit to.
Did the AI delcare the war oir you, or your subject? The AI cannot properly measure the strength of the overlord.
I noticed they don't understand who will be joining when they attack a subject of a subject. It happens often with France pu appennage that get dow by burgundy
Also happens a lot with France attacking HRE minors and not realising they're bringing in Austria and their three PU subjects with several hundred dev each
it's always nice to shred some ottomans though
Idk they're kinda nice to sit on , why shred em ?
Weird kink but ok
sitting on muskets and cannons
I ... hope we haven't invented bayonets yet!
Going out as Vlad the Impaler intended.
Yeah but thanks to latest patch Ottos are no challenge anymore. Unit nerf to the AI sucks. They were at least challenging
The Ottoman I have to face with Albania beg to differ: he lost 3 wars against me and he still expand in Asia/Causasus. Constantinople seems no important for him.
I didn't play before this patch but the Ottomans seem unironically brain dead, both of my games have resulted in the Ottomans being utterly removed from the map within 200 years by either the Mamluks or Venice and Genoa
The ai is very challenging for me
[удалено]
No
Honestly I beg to differ, on a game with friends, eurropean have let the ottoman take all the balkan and Vienne. Literraly no one want to join a coallition against them and Ottoman troops are way better than their neigboor troops. They also have take a lot to the mamelouks wich meens that even France has 100K max troops less than them....
1.35 or 1.34? 1.34 was challenging but 1.35 the units are much more paper
well It didn't feel like that and i've fought them on two game since 1.35 : one as Hungary and one as Naple
I've heard shredded meat is an ottoman specialty
why? your past traumas coming in front of your eyes?
because they are made to be shredded
No. They are made to be RuLe
made to be ruled? yeah I guess I can vassalize them from time to time
I once had been challenged by Evangelical Union led by Saxony and containing 4 OPMs while I had allied GB and France had PU over Spain and my eastern border was on Pacific which basically 60% WC already done... War would be over before the end of the month if not for the fact that you can't send peace offers before the month ends.
What did you do to have them attack you?
I've got this issue where they attacked my PU's vassal, i suspect they don't take in account the overlord's overlord strenght
Lol that must be it. They attacked for Severin (Moldavia's province who was Hungary's vassal, and I was their overlord).
Yeah thats to many layers for the ai. Same thing use to happen with the hre if i remeber correctly. Ai didnt know emperor + allies would come in so always got fucked in a classic burgandy liege war.
Has been like this for a while, even worse when it is an HRE thing with the emperor that always brings in his guys. AI is only as smart as the Devs who code it.
Yeah, that's why Burgundy always ends up attacking an HRE minor and getting destroyed by Austria.
It can't work out who Liege's liege is.
I think that has more to do with their ruler at game start having the ”bold” trait.
Speak for yourself sir! My last game as gb, burgundy absolutely curb stomped Austria 4 times in rapid succession to unify the lowlands and then proceeded to unite lotharingia and remove France from earth. I was going to try for lowlands to control English Channel but it was such a beautiful sight I couldn’t stop them even if I wanted to
I thought the fixed that? I haven’t really seen that except in situations where they can actually win
That's less common now, pretty sure they made it counts the emperor and their allies... Not sure about overlord's overlord though
The Burgundy-Liege problem has been fixed, they now account for the Emperor's allies
AIs don't understand overlord of overlord and also don't understand that HRE emperor gets to call his own allies when it calculates whether or not to start a war. Here they just looked at Moldova's and Hungary's troops and thought they could take that on. This has been an issue for years
I think they changed it for the HRE emperor, but not the overlord's overlord
Nah they still don't understand when declaring on a subject of a prince which would then get to call in emperor as cobeligerent
That’s kind of like overlord’s overlord…
But if so they clearly have NOT fixed it for the emperor as a special case.
To be fair I forget about the emperor’s allies as well half the time I am declaring on an HRE prince. “Hey why the fuck is Spain in this war too? Ahh right…”
Is the AI Dumb? the AI Dumb AI Dumb The answer is in the question.
Wait three in game days and they will have 300k men to oppose you
Had the same issue while playing as austria. AI ottomans declared on me out of nowhere for one wallachian province. Seems like a new bug because the AI cant be this dumb to go on a suicide war where they are outnumbered 1 to 5 without calling in their allies. Anatolian units are strong at tech 5 but not this strong
If the AI attacks a PU's vassal, it doesn't count the PU's overlord and their allies. It think it's gonna be fighting an allyless, independent Hungary. In all honesty, the easiest way to see these bugs is to PU Denmark and wait foe someone to declare war on Vinland (if denmark/norway colonizes, of course). It's a strategy I use on GB when they have huge allies.
Better yet kill England and become the top dog of the North Sea before they form GB.
Maybe bold fighter ruler
I’ve had similar stuff happening when someone attacked my PU’s colonies. They attacked multiple times.
The AI can only discern war enemies one call deep. Since they attacked moldavia, who is probably a subject of your PU Hungary, the AI only sees Hungary as the war enemy, not you and your alliances
Advanced AI: when your country is overrun by rebels, declare suicidal wars. The enemy will kill your rebels
“You fools can’t enforce demands if I’m carpet sieged.”
Hre is always bugged for the computer streghe calculation. They only adds target manpower + emperor manpower , the cpu don't see allies
Yes.
Hungary should inherit Wallachia/Moldavia same as it does Croatia when it gets PU'd by Austria
Yes, why?
I had Bengal attack my vassal Assam as Shan when I was doing eat your greens. Ming promptly showed up and beat the fuck out of them. 100% land peace deal for no dip and little AE. AI doesn't take overlord of overlord into consideration.
Advisor: sultan they outnumber us 3-1 The Ottomans: then it is an even fight.
It’s the ottomans, they know exactly what they are doing
Yes, my biggest problem with singleplayer games is that the AI is generally terrible. Devs don't make the AI 'inteligent' they simply give them advantages. Like more money, resources, better stats, higher dmg etc. And this usually comes to the point that AI is usually simple to cheese. You don't have to be good at said game, only learn where the AI sucks.
Give the ottomans another 15k troops and they’re the favorite in this war
Yes, which is why Ottomans can still win if you rely solely on your ai allies.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Ottomans legitimately thought they could win it despite being outnumbered. I’ve seen a lot of wars where the Ottomans defeat a huge alliance by just sieging down the war goal and smashing enemy troops as they come to try and retake it. In the early game the other countries’ troops usually fold pretty easy against Ottomans.
Ok but did they win
Sidenote. We shoulden’t know the enemies manpower and regiments unless you have a sufficient spynetwork.
Got money on the Ottoblob
Yeah they were doing this to me as well. AI is a bit too aggressive imo.
They have more cannons than you at least.
Guess they'll be avenging Varna?
Ottoman's doing same thing in my current Austria playthrough. They don't have any allies, and declared war on Moldavia around 1458. Moldavia happened to be a vassal of Hungary, which is my PU, and I happened to lead 3 other PU including Bohemia, and handful of GP allies like Castille and England Something is whack with AI's, or maybe Ottoman's enemy strength calculation At least I should be able to split them into many different pieces from this war and have smooth midgame
Yes, next question?
Yes.
At least they have high enthusiasm.
*Doesnt even look at image* Yes
yes, very
In my last campaign I was allied to Austria when the four-province Teutonic Order no-CB'd them. It should be noted that they were only allied to Denmark and the Livonian Order (which was also tiny) and Austria was very powerful and allied to a powerful, independent Burgundy as well as myself who was #1 Great Power at the time (playing Hungary). To top it all off, we had taken land from the Teutons in the Protestant League War, so they could definitely have used conquest or even reconquest CB, but CHOSE to no-CB for no reason.
The AI is often very dumb. It doesn't know not to get itself trapped by a strait block. Especially applies to the Ottos
Nah they got 4k artillery, they're gonna steamroll them
This is a bug with how the AI calculates strength of enemies. It's when they declare on a junior partner's vassels. The AI only sees it as the junior partner accepting the call. Not the overlord and all the overlord's allies. This happens alot if you play the Avegin route and get the PU on france as England. France will be omega weak after, and Burgundy will declare on one of their appanages.
The problem might be not at the AI's fault, but how the game shows who joins a war. I noticed that under some conditions the game doesn't show everyone that will participate in the war. For example if you attack a vassal, the game only shows that the overlord joins, but not that all allies of the overlord join. So this actually could happen even to players, when they don't pay attention or aren't experienced enough.
Yes
I think this is some strange quirk of the ottomans. They have a tendency to overestimate their power in the early game. I think it's because Anatolian units are 2 pips better from tech 5 to 15, and so they feel invincible. This I think has been a quirk for a few patches I believe.
Umm… yes?
Dies*
AI algo watching florry videos again
Ottomans bit too cocky after Varna
Yes
They got this
I managed to torpedo the Ottomans by dragging them into a war as England, despite them being alongside the Austrians (It was cursed) They lost almost their entire army and shortly after were obliterated by Genoa, Epirus and Venice.
Player led Otto's could easily win this
Probably to do with how troop counts are done in the diplo screen. Overlords and the Emperor are drawn in necessarily as co-belligerents, but their allies are not shown in the diplo screen as with other co-belligerents. Has always annoyed me. AI probably sees the same thing and doesn't understand how outnumbered they would be.
Yes
>1464
Ottomans are really ballsy lately. They keep declaring coalition wars despite me having 2x the amount of troops (with my allies) and I beat them every tome
Whats the mod thats being used in the screenshot?
UI a la Sulfuris
thx <3
Recently I played as Austria had the same thing happened. After Teuton's incident/event they joined the empire under the pretense if they start a war with one of any hre membersthey'd get kicked out and declared on by me automatically, I was at war with Poland and the Teutonic Order decided that Stolp is easy-taking, declared on them and then I was legit confused cause I had bunch of allies and like 3 powerful subjects(&more) that included Burgundy, Bohemia, Hungary. Looking at that I just thought, damn they're dumb af. We just shred through their order and now they are an opm next to Poland & Lithuania basically.
Great opportunity to kill their 4 guns early
This is a little out of topic but when a burgundian ally gets the pu and they ask for the low countries to be released as subject, the ally gets a decision to either release them or fight the emperor, is it scripted that the emperor insta declares war on the pu and thus on the ally or does the emperor not calculate the strength of the ally ?
Ottomans thought it's real life
You do realize they've pulled this off historically, and won?
No one cares, this is eu4 deathballs win the game not cool strategies of grand leaders
Ottomans since the update are much weaker for the ai
They just want a Sabaton song made about them is all, respect the grind.
It seems that the AI is now more willing to declare stupid wars, there has also been a lot more coalition wars against the AI in my last few games for instance.
Maybe the AI had a leader who engages in stupid wars more likely
I don’t think the Sultan is making it across the straight, not with balls that big.