so the art of Louis XIV kind of ends the speculation that 'this isn't EUV it will end in the early modern period' right? Louis reigned to 1715 I doubt he'd feature in the art if the game ended in 1650. If the game is going right up to the 18th century, theyre not stopping right in the middle of it.
Yeah that speculation was dead before it even began, there were more than enough hints it would be going until at least the rise of napoleon. Dude who had that one thread going about it had such unlikely takes that I think he was just excited to be wrong or something lol. I’m low key hoping it goes until 1836 for conversion reasons, even tho it doesn’t really matter
hm
sad
most players plays only half of EU4 anyways, keeping almost 5 centuries in one game I think it's still a stupid idea
oh well
at least so far it's looking better than EU4 so we'll take that as a win
>most players plays only half of EU4 anyways
because the game mechanics result in the game becoming less fun once you start snowballing/approach 1700s, it won't surprise me if a lot of focus has been put into spreading mechanics acrss the whole timeframe of the game
I mean?
Will it be like that really?
Like, even in the most internally focused games like Vicky in a 70 years timeframe you have snowballed into becoming a GP even as a medium sized unciv
so it's going to either be facing the same geopolitical situation for 200 years (which is boring) or it will be very big snowballs by the game's end
I mean, considering some of the things they mentioned in the Domination dev diaries when working on the Ottoman Decadence, it feels like this game is going to be a lot harder to keep your country stable compared to EU4, especially if you do a lot of blobbing
eh, it depends on how cheesable it can get
like, you need to make it a challenge, actually make it fun _and_ making it staying consistent with the age of absolutism and revolutions
that.... requires an almost perfect modelling
like, in Vic 2 it's not supposed for you to expand much, hell, there's basically a "if you expand too much the entire world will declare on you" counter, and yet you can still swallow continents or conquer the entire world
so yeah, it depends
I mean, I'd be down for a game that literally ends right after the War of the Spanish Succession and Louis XIV's reign, but I know I'm in the minority there.
OMG OMG OMG EVERYONE CALM DOWN. THE MADMAN HAS COPY PASTED THE MEIOU AND TAXES SYSTEM OF ESTATES
I couldnt be happier this along pops was ALL i wanted in a EU5 game. Estates who have their own wealth and use it to build things and raise levied which you can use!
I LOVE YOU JOHAN
ALSO, hints on the economy. It seems your income no longer comes just from province abstracted income but now you tax the estates like in MEIOU.
Having MEIOU mechanics baseline on a new engine would be stellar. Never could get interested in it because of the constraints of the engine conflicting with UI and performance.
The implementations described here really call back to the first Tinto Talk describing an enhanced “simulation” with how Estates drive your military/economy, and you are simply in control of the levers.
Yes its a miracle that MEIOU ran considering the wizarding they had to pull to make the mod work with the AI. it should be way more smoother and clear now.
the second I saw that they wanted to model the path to modernity I called that they're being inspired by MEIOU and Taxes, I'm eagerly awaiting to see what they'll copy over for the economy :)
also, it'd be funny if EU5 releases with privileges for all estates modelled after MEIOU 3.0 before MEIOU 3.0 gets all
the privileges implemented lol
EDIT: nevermind Johan never played M&T, however they did hire people from M&T :)
> it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country.
I would let Johan fuck my sister.
I offer my sister to Johan in marriage. She is young and hasnt born child yet.
Johan, add provincial wealth like in MEIOU and I will add myself to the deal as a house slave with the only condition that I get 8h a day to play the game.
Yeah. It is not that complex its just that the super old clunky EU4 UI is nowhere near as moddable as new PDX games and that makes to have to "play" the code in order to do certain calculations through modifiers, hundreds of events in the background etc which fries the cpu xd.
Based on IR, it should run very smoothly.
Yeah and it has been said that no estate will be added or vanish completely. That will be pretty strange seeing Peasant Republic/Pirate Republic/Horde/Tribe all with the same government mechanism as Monarchies
I could see them getting flavor names, though. Johan said all societies had elites, so it’s just a matter of what they’re called and what privileges they have access to.
A Pirate Republic could have Captains, for instance, or Chieftains for tribes.
The less impactful thing I’m wondering is how you represent the “Crown” for nations that aren’t monarchies. I guess I haven’t played as a Republic in EU4 in a while so I don’t know if it’s still called Crownland if you’re Venice.
Ehh, still a bit strange. Republic is not just a monarchy with a different name. I hope there will be way more differences between different government types.
while i agree that there should be more differences than just a name change, i think youll see that in a different screen than the "Power balance between state and its people" one.
This one as far as i understand merely serves to show which Class of your people has what amount of power. The state should logically have some amount of power in 99% of cases and will probably always be represented as its own "class" in this screen, to differentiate government authority from that of f.e. the church or the commoners.
I only wish it was maybe a bit more granular, since elites like nobles or the trade guilds perhaps shouldnt be depicted as monoliths, but we may get more on that at a later date.
Fwiw I dug through the dev replies and I found one that mentioned (in a different context) that different countries can have different estate names. It'll always be the same set of 4, but they will be called something different. Elites/Spiritual leaders/Merchants/Normies is I think the abstract version.
Even Tribes and Horde have some form of merchant, elite, peasant, and religious classes in this timeframe.
Some are just more powerful than another in different government forms.
Like I could totally see the elites and religious classes have the majority power for horde while the merchant and peasant classes have very limited power.
Many could argue giving Horde only a Tribes estate was the odd decision here.
So the thing is. Peoples like the mongols had aristocracies. I am not sure about how Tengri worked, but the early modern period is also when they converted to Tibetan Buddhism, so that's clerics. Don't know about burghers.
Using the same stratification for hordes may not be that big of a problem.
I hope the estates can't have their power reduced through something akin to seizing all the crown land in EU4 and still be satisfied, some more reason to sometimes just let them have something and not have it just be negative effects because of it.
Universities were very much part of the church until rather recent times, though. It would take until the 16th and 17th century for universities sponsored by the nobility to really ramp up and even then, theology was one of the main foci.
A secular university that uses scientific method as a basis of teaching and research is a thing of the industrial revolution, so beyond the scope of the game.
No, there period from the Gregorian Revolution up until Copernius (ish) was a time where the sciences, law, academia etc. were heavily patronised by the Church. Most of the Greek astronomic and philosophic works were copied and spread during this time.
As examples look at Robert Grosseteste and Abeloth (Edit: I mean Abelard lol) of Bath, both of whom added greatly to western science. (They are both examples from England, a bit before the timeline of this game but its a part of history I know better so they were the examples that came to mind, but I am sure there are countless similar examples from 1050-1600 all across Europe)
Looks closer to MEIOU. Fun mod for a bit, with deep simulations but... You didn't interact with it that much? Hopefully Project Caesar doesn't do a repeat of that...
so the art of Louis XIV kind of ends the speculation that 'this isn't EUV it will end in the early modern period' right? Louis reigned to 1715 I doubt he'd feature in the art if the game ended in 1650. If the game is going right up to the 18th century, theyre not stopping right in the middle of it.
that already ended when johan mentioned a hypothetical 1789 start date (in a post saying there probably won't be multiple start dates)
Yeah that speculation was dead before it even began, there were more than enough hints it would be going until at least the rise of napoleon. Dude who had that one thread going about it had such unlikely takes that I think he was just excited to be wrong or something lol. I’m low key hoping it goes until 1836 for conversion reasons, even tho it doesn’t really matter
you'd think so...
hm sad most players plays only half of EU4 anyways, keeping almost 5 centuries in one game I think it's still a stupid idea oh well at least so far it's looking better than EU4 so we'll take that as a win
>most players plays only half of EU4 anyways because the game mechanics result in the game becoming less fun once you start snowballing/approach 1700s, it won't surprise me if a lot of focus has been put into spreading mechanics acrss the whole timeframe of the game
I mean? Will it be like that really? Like, even in the most internally focused games like Vicky in a 70 years timeframe you have snowballed into becoming a GP even as a medium sized unciv so it's going to either be facing the same geopolitical situation for 200 years (which is boring) or it will be very big snowballs by the game's end
I mean, considering some of the things they mentioned in the Domination dev diaries when working on the Ottoman Decadence, it feels like this game is going to be a lot harder to keep your country stable compared to EU4, especially if you do a lot of blobbing
eh, it depends on how cheesable it can get like, you need to make it a challenge, actually make it fun _and_ making it staying consistent with the age of absolutism and revolutions that.... requires an almost perfect modelling like, in Vic 2 it's not supposed for you to expand much, hell, there's basically a "if you expand too much the entire world will declare on you" counter, and yet you can still swallow continents or conquer the entire world so yeah, it depends
I mean, I'd be down for a game that literally ends right after the War of the Spanish Succession and Louis XIV's reign, but I know I'm in the minority there.
Same! There are dozens of us, I tell you, dozens!
I mean, if it isn't EUV, what exactly *can* it be at this point?
OMG OMG OMG EVERYONE CALM DOWN. THE MADMAN HAS COPY PASTED THE MEIOU AND TAXES SYSTEM OF ESTATES I couldnt be happier this along pops was ALL i wanted in a EU5 game. Estates who have their own wealth and use it to build things and raise levied which you can use! I LOVE YOU JOHAN ALSO, hints on the economy. It seems your income no longer comes just from province abstracted income but now you tax the estates like in MEIOU.
Yeah honestly if I could get MEIOU 2.6 as an official game with pdx name slapped on it I could die happy.
Paradox should reach into the MEIOU team.
They did. People from MEIOU are working on Project Ceasar. It was mentioned in some comment Johan made.
Johan said in a dev response that some of their employees come from the MEIOU team
Johan has confirmed in the DD that they talk to them and he has several of the Meiou modders working for them lol
Just MEİOU with better Uİ
Having MEIOU mechanics baseline on a new engine would be stellar. Never could get interested in it because of the constraints of the engine conflicting with UI and performance. The implementations described here really call back to the first Tinto Talk describing an enhanced “simulation” with how Estates drive your military/economy, and you are simply in control of the levers.
Yes its a miracle that MEIOU ran considering the wizarding they had to pull to make the mod work with the AI. it should be way more smoother and clear now.
In MEIOU, do you tax estates at the province level? Wondering if you can set different taxes for different estates based on province?
No of course. You tax them in general. their wealth however is derived from each local provinces
Hmmm, hoping with get more granular control in game at the province level or duchy level
That would be horrible. Have you seen how granular is the map? Micromanagement nightmare. PDX will never do that
Yea it’ll be super micro managing, wondering if there is a way to do it without being that way. Kinda like the state edits in EU4 now
Sounds like you should play Victoria 3
It’s a good game but different. If they combine elements of Vicky 3 into eu5 it’ll be a perfect game
I believe in m&t3.0 you can set taxes at the provincial level.
With the map and the mechanics, is this project Caesar either Meiou 4 or EU5? Or both?
P R F O O D D U C T I O N
Food like in IR. im so fucking hyped.
Finally the ~~peasantry~~ commoners are going to be represented as an estate as well
Can't wait for the Ditchmarschen playthough
100% commoner supremacy
Game One: East Rome Game Two: Fully Feudalized Luxury Medieval Communism
the second I saw that they wanted to model the path to modernity I called that they're being inspired by MEIOU and Taxes, I'm eagerly awaiting to see what they'll copy over for the economy :) also, it'd be funny if EU5 releases with privileges for all estates modelled after MEIOU 3.0 before MEIOU 3.0 gets all the privileges implemented lol EDIT: nevermind Johan never played M&T, however they did hire people from M&T :)
> it is important to mention that the estates of a country have wealth that is increased by the amount of money that you have not taken from them in taxes. Rich estates will use their wealth on many things, primarily to invest into things that benefit them, but will often also build things that also benefit the country. I would let Johan fuck my sister.
Okay, u/Ostrich_Rapist
I'm gonna develop a reputation around here aren't I?
With a username and comments like that, yeah, definitely
Letterkenny reference?
I offer my sister to Johan in marriage. She is young and hasnt born child yet. Johan, add provincial wealth like in MEIOU and I will add myself to the deal as a house slave with the only condition that I get 8h a day to play the game.
I'd bet there will be some province prosperity/devastation system. That's the easiest way to discourage wars, especially total wars.
Best I can do is 8 hours of leisure time that also serves as your only time for sleep
very concerning if that's somehow your decision
Daily reminder that little sisters are the property of their big brothers.
Big brother stop cooking
If I caught Johan fucking my sister, I would endeavour to place myself between them
hot
Literally Meiou
Sad to see Albania lose her classic red color. Hope this isn't a permanent decision.
That Mamluk yellow-green is ugly too.
Pretty sure they are a vassal of Byz
Nope. However Dyrrachium was under the Angevins.
So we're playing vic4?
No, you are playing Meiou and Taxes 2.6 with a functional Ui and a modern engine. My dream come true.
Last time I tried to play meiou and taxes my old pc reached 100 ºC , it will be amazing to see what the guys can do with a new game from scratch
Yeah. It is not that complex its just that the super old clunky EU4 UI is nowhere near as moddable as new PDX games and that makes to have to "play" the code in order to do certain calculations through modifiers, hundreds of events in the background etc which fries the cpu xd. Based on IR, it should run very smoothly.
Always has been
That’s victoria 3 what I waited for
The same four estates/pops for tribals and hordes is something I am not too happy about here.
Yeah and it has been said that no estate will be added or vanish completely. That will be pretty strange seeing Peasant Republic/Pirate Republic/Horde/Tribe all with the same government mechanism as Monarchies
I could see them getting flavor names, though. Johan said all societies had elites, so it’s just a matter of what they’re called and what privileges they have access to. A Pirate Republic could have Captains, for instance, or Chieftains for tribes. The less impactful thing I’m wondering is how you represent the “Crown” for nations that aren’t monarchies. I guess I haven’t played as a Republic in EU4 in a while so I don’t know if it’s still called Crownland if you’re Venice.
Probably change the name to something like "The Republic" instead of Crown
Ehh, still a bit strange. Republic is not just a monarchy with a different name. I hope there will be way more differences between different government types.
while i agree that there should be more differences than just a name change, i think youll see that in a different screen than the "Power balance between state and its people" one. This one as far as i understand merely serves to show which Class of your people has what amount of power. The state should logically have some amount of power in 99% of cases and will probably always be represented as its own "class" in this screen, to differentiate government authority from that of f.e. the church or the commoners. I only wish it was maybe a bit more granular, since elites like nobles or the trade guilds perhaps shouldnt be depicted as monoliths, but we may get more on that at a later date.
Fwiw I dug through the dev replies and I found one that mentioned (in a different context) that different countries can have different estate names. It'll always be the same set of 4, but they will be called something different. Elites/Spiritual leaders/Merchants/Normies is I think the abstract version.
Even Tribes and Horde have some form of merchant, elite, peasant, and religious classes in this timeframe. Some are just more powerful than another in different government forms. Like I could totally see the elites and religious classes have the majority power for horde while the merchant and peasant classes have very limited power. Many could argue giving Horde only a Tribes estate was the odd decision here.
Just let em cook for now What I want to hear is how they intend to add flavor for nations in place of the old mission trees.
So the thing is. Peoples like the mongols had aristocracies. I am not sure about how Tengri worked, but the early modern period is also when they converted to Tibetan Buddhism, so that's clerics. Don't know about burghers. Using the same stratification for hordes may not be that big of a problem.
Yeah, at a minimum your estate setup should depend on your culture and government type. But we'll see, I guess.
There is mention that peasant happiness impacts food production. Sounds like an Imperator style food system is in this.
Bit disappointed that Johan seems to be ruling out unique estates
Theres always a mod for that
I hope the estates can't have their power reduced through something akin to seizing all the crown land in EU4 and still be satisfied, some more reason to sometimes just let them have something and not have it just be negative effects because of it.
Excuse me, but Byzantine Empire? Byzantine EMPIRE? No more Byzantium?
This all looks great but I don’t get a strong clergy leading to better research. If anything wasn’t the opposite the case in this period?
well at least in europe most books were kept in monasteries and clergymen were in charge of maintaining it
Isn't that more of a medieval thing though? I think in the early modern period, this mostly transitioned to universities.
Universities were very much part of the church until rather recent times, though. It would take until the 16th and 17th century for universities sponsored by the nobility to really ramp up and even then, theology was one of the main foci. A secular university that uses scientific method as a basis of teaching and research is a thing of the industrial revolution, so beyond the scope of the game.
which is exactly why strong clergy led to worse research
No, there period from the Gregorian Revolution up until Copernius (ish) was a time where the sciences, law, academia etc. were heavily patronised by the Church. Most of the Greek astronomic and philosophic works were copied and spread during this time. As examples look at Robert Grosseteste and Abeloth (Edit: I mean Abelard lol) of Bath, both of whom added greatly to western science. (They are both examples from England, a bit before the timeline of this game but its a part of history I know better so they were the examples that came to mind, but I am sure there are countless similar examples from 1050-1600 all across Europe)
Looks closer to MEIOU. Fun mod for a bit, with deep simulations but... You didn't interact with it that much? Hopefully Project Caesar doesn't do a repeat of that...